Don't conflate vision with IQ - Lebron formed super-team because he lacks bball IQ

[3ba11]

His frontcourt ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, so he lacks the teammate development, fits and brand of ball to win organically and must be a talent-based winner instead (team-hopper.. all-star team strategy)

So the guy that everyone says is #2 all-time (a few say #1) infact never learned how to win (organic) and only learned how to team-hop.

This summary can be proven wrong by pointing out the times when Lebron had high assist teams and the best brand of ball in the league, or when a young player developed from low producer to viable producer on Lebron's watch - but there are none - Lebron's skillset stalls young players like Hughes or Ingram and needs ready-made stars to win (AD) - this is talent-based winning, which means that Lebron never learned how to win (organic, aka teammate development, fits, and developing the best brand of ball)...

Guys like Duncan and Curry learned the best brand of ball that can develop teammates and win organically, while Lebron didn't.. That's why they're superior - they actually know how to WIN (organic).

[Real Men Wear Green]

**** you.

[1987_Lakers]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?487615-Prediction-people-will-be-saying-Oubre-gt-Klay-at-times-this-next-season

[SATAN]

OP is gonna spend another DECADE+ doing this shit every day. Lying. Deceiving. Never being funny. Driving away traffic and killing the board.

Whoever is running the account now...It's shit. It's boring.

[ShawkFactory]

**** you.

:roll:

[3ba11]

OP is gonna spend another DECADE+ doing this shit every day. Lying. Deceiving. Never being funny. Driving away traffic and killing the board.

Whoever is running the account now...It's shit. It's boring.


When has a Lebron team been known to play the best brand of ball like the teams that beat him (Spurs, Mavs, Warriors)?

When has he developed a young player from low producer to viable producer?

The inability to develop teammates or good brand of ball confirms that he isn't high IQ and simply has good vision like a lot of ball-dominators

[SATAN]

When has a Lebron team been known to play the best brand of ball like the teams that beat him (Spurs, Mavs, Warriors)?

When has he developed a young player from low producer to viable producer?

The inability to develop teammates or good brand of ball confirms that he isn't high IQ and simply has good vision like a lot of ball-dominators

No, really. This is extremely boring and not funny.

[FilmyCogTurner]

You do have to wonder why and how so many Lebron led teams never truly become supremely dominant. With so many years under his belt with talent rich teams he should be able to organize the roster into a juggernaut some of the time. It rarely happened, maybe once with the Heat if I remember correctly. Hardly GOAT material for a player with such a high IQ.

[LAL]

You do have to wonder why and how so many Lebron led teams never truly become supremely dominant. With so many years under his belt with talent rich teams he should be able to organize the roster into a juggernaut some of the time. It rarely happened, maybe once with the Heat if I remember correctly. Hardly GOAT material for a player with such a high IQ.

True

[3ba11]

You do have to wonder why and how so many Lebron led teams never truly become supremely dominant.





Maybe you have to wonder but I don't.. We know why

His teams start out as the preseason favorite (the talent favorite) but once they start playing basketball, the team falls to underdog (bad brand of ball)

This is the historical record:

Lebron's preseason favorites fell to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') except the Ray Allen miracle - only a miracle stopped Lebron's brand from underachieving the expectation for 6 straight years.. Then he was preseason favorite in 21' and 22' but fell to massive underdog again due to horrific chemistry and brand of ball.

Otoh, the teams that beat him (Spurs, Mavs, Warriors) developed the best brand and chemistry in the league, while Lebron never did because his skillset is uncoachable (unwilling to play off-ball and lacks expert jumpshooting skill).. Ultimately, he never evolved out of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around him (suboptimal), so he fields low ball movement and low-assist teams that get massively out-assisted in the Finals

[sdot_thadon]

What you really have to wonder is how anyone with brain cells can type out Lebron doesn't have I.Q. Or how anyone can cosign such stupidity.

[3ba11]

What you really have to wonder is how anyone with brain cells can type out Lebron doesn't have I.Q. Or how anyone can cosign such stupidity.


It's literally the historical record



* His teams start out as the preseason favorite (the talent favorite) but once they start playing basketball, the team falls to underdog (bad brand of ball)

* His teams have never been known to have the best brand of ball like the teams that beat him (Spurs, Mavs, Warriors, Magic).

* Teammates crater alongside him for his entire career

* He never learned the best brand of ball and fields low-assist teams that get massively out-assisted in the Finals.


aka low IQ... :confusedshrug:

but good vision... :applause:

[sdot_thadon]

It's literally the historical record



* His teams start out as the preseason favorite (the talent favorite) but once they start playing basketball, the team falls to underdog (bad brand of ball)

* His teams have never been known to have the best brand of ball like the teams that beat him (Spurs, Mavs, Warriors, Magic).

* Teammates crater alongside him for his entire career

* He never learned the best brand of ball and fields low-assist teams that get massively out-assisted in the Finals.


aka low IQ... :confusedshrug:

but good vision... :applause:

None of that has anything to do with the premise of this thread. You're an idiot.

[FilmyCogTurner]

I know the how and why as well but sometimes it's nice to phrase things in a way for his fanbase.

You look at the 96 Bulls or 2016 Warriors and how they were able to steamroll the regular season. Both teams had rosters 1-12 fully committed and producing at both ends of the floors and most importantly the ball was moving. Something Lebron led teams cannot do, he never developed the skillset which is why his teams could never be on the level of the all-time greats.

[3ba11]

None of that has anything to do with the premise of this thread. You're an idiot.


Bball IQ = knowing the best brand of ball and being able to develop teammates

Lebron is literally WOAT at both (brand of ball and teammate development)

aka low IQ... Just a dumb ball-dominator... Good vision though

[Wally450]

Top 2 all time. Deal with it.

[FultzNationRISE]

You are absolutely shameless, OP.

[zeerghit]

Bball IQ = knowing the best brand of ball and being able to develop teammates

Lebron is literally WOAT at both (brand of ball and teammate development)

aka low IQ... Just a dumb ball-dominator... Good vision though

the guy said you are idiot, why u arguing with him?

[PeroAntic]

Jeff should be ashamed of himself enabling a lunatic for the sake of forum traffic.

[r15mohd]

You do have to wonder why and how so many Lebron led teams never truly become supremely dominant. With so many years under his belt with talent rich teams he should be able to organize the roster into a juggernaut some of the time. It rarely happened, maybe once with the Heat if I remember correctly. Hardly GOAT material for a player with such a high IQ.

define dominance? cuz we're talking about a player that has 4 titles, 10 finals appearances and at one point a 8yr consecutive run of the finals through the span of 19yrs.

his 1st yrs with the Cavs werent really talent rich, no matter how much 3ball whines it was, so dominance was his own doing if there was any during that time. he peaked with the Heat like you said but injuries...

wade had a free-fall decline
2nd Cavs stint immediately started off with injuries to Love and Kyrie, and then Kyrie asking out
Lakers, he suffered his first lengthy injury, AD is self explanatory

its apart of the game, much changes for any great player/team had their not been such setbacks

[3ba11]

No one can show a single instance of Lebron developing a young player - there's only instances of him stalling young players like Hughes and Ingram - after 2 years of growth, Ingram saw a 1-year drop alongside Lebron in 2019 (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48).

And no one can provide an instance of Lebron employing the best brand of ball in the league

By imposing spot-up roles that stall young players, the heliocentric skillset lacks the teammate development, fits or brand of ball to win organically and must resort to talent-based winning (team-hopping... all-star team strategy

It's clear that "heliocentric" ball-dominance and low assist teams are an inferior skillset and methodology, respectively

Accordingly, Lebron is 20-21 in 41 Finals games with super-teams (excluding 07', 15', 18'), so his skillset has a lottery record on the championship level (low team ceilings) regardless of cast

But carry on listening to ESPN and ignorance like that.. I blocked all their channels on my YouTube account. The TNT guys are fine.. Barkley called out Lebron and Lebron responded by getting personal and getting exposed

[NBAGOAT]

you havent really proven the warriors and spurs played a superior form of basketball. I dont disagree but on face value they have had roughly equal success. also kyrie peaked both on the court and off the court with lebron, was just a talented young all star pre lebron. Ofc let me guess with kyrie he was self-made but curry made draymond/klay and duncan made parker/ginobili. Comparing larry hughes to those guys is laughable. Also, everyone knows new orleans and fred vinson completely remade ingram's jumpshot(as they did with lonzo). lebron has nothing to do with going from a 68% ft shooter to 85% for ingram or going from 42% to 78% in 2 years for lonzo

[3ba11]

a player that has 4 titles, 10 finals appearances and at one point a 8yr consecutive run of the finals through the span of 19yrs.





When did the Finals streak start?

It started with the "decision" to consolidate power in the East by teaming up with the top two 1at options in the conference - completely manufactured and unimpressive.. Before the "decision", he was a 1-trick pony with 1 Finals run like Iverson or Dwight, or a career-losing ball-dominator like CP3 or Luka.

The reality is that losing the Finals means that you couldn't beat the other conference and
wouldn't make the Finals from the other conference - so Finals appearances are conference-dependant affairs and only winning them matters.

Ultimately, people knock Durant's collusion with Curry but he was breaking Lebron's collusion record - Lebron's "decision" locked down the league with 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite super-teams for 6 straight years.. So people shouldn't count Lebron's manufactured playoff runs anymore than they do Durant's

[r15mohd]

When did the Finals streak start?

It started with the "decision" to consolidate power in the East by teaming up with the top two 1at options in the conference - completely manufactured and unimpressive.. Before the "decision", he was a 1-trick pony with 1 Finals run like Iverson or Dwight, or a career-losing ball-dominator like CP3 or Luka.

The reality is that losing the Finals means that you couldn't beat the other conference and
wouldn't make the Finals from the other conference - so Finals appearances are conference-dependant affairs and only winning them matters.

Ultimately, people knock Durant's collusion with Curry but he was breaking Lebron's collusion record - Lebron's "decision" locked down the league with 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite super-teams for 6 straight years.. So people shouldn't count Lebron's manufactured playoff runs anymore than they do Durant's

same way other greats runs started...with other top player teammates alongside them. pick any team and it's the same. and if he needed the top players to be in the Finals, why didnt it end when they got injured - but only when he himself got injured? Bosh out against the Pacers, Love out after 1st round of 2015, no Kyrie in 2018 - streak continued.

[3ba11]

You havent really proven the warriors and spurs played a superior form of basketball.





Proof of better brand of ball:


* Warriors and Spurs had #1 offenses and high assist teams that massively out-assist Lebron's low assist teams and inferior offenses (zero #1 offenses in 2 decades of playing and goat offensive help

* Better brands of ball win with less talent and the Spurs/Warriors didn't need elite 1st options at 1st, 2nd and 3rd option (super-teams) to win.. They won with secondary producers at sidekick like Klay (15'), Wiggins (22') or Tony Parker and don't need all-time producers like Wade, AD or Kyrie






. Ofc let me guess with kyrie he was self-made but curry made draymond/klay and duncan made parker/ginobili.





"Tell him what he's won Bob!!!".... :djparty:

Klay and Dray grew from low producers to viable producers on Curry's watch - Curry's expert jumpshooting skill didn't impose spot-up roles like Lebron's ball-dominance..

Similarly, Duncan grew Parker and Manu






. Also, everyone knows new orleans and fred vinson completely remade ingram's jumpshot(as they did with lonzo).






Actually, Ingram was shooting 39% from three the year before playing with Lebron and 39% after (32% with Lebron)

Players shoot better off of unpredictable ball movement rather than predictable ball-dominance where defenders close-out better

[NBAGOAT]

Proof of better brand of ball:


* Warriors and Spurs had #1 offenses and high assist teams that massively out-assist Lebron's low assist teams and inferior offenses (zero #1 offenses in 2 decades of playing and goat offensive help

* Better brands of ball win with less talent and the Spurs/Warriors didn't need elite 1st options at 1st, 2nd and 3rd option (super-teams) to win.. They won with secondary producers at sidekick like Klay (15'), Wiggins (22') or Tony Parker and don't need all-time producers like Wade, AD or Kyrie






"Tell him what he's won Bob!!!".... :djparty:

Klay and Dray grew from low producers to viable producers on Curry's watch - Curry's expert jumpshooting skill didn't impose spot-up roles like Lebron's ball-dominance..

Similarly, Duncan grew Parker and Manu






Actually, Ingram was shooting 39% from three the year before playing with Lebron and 39% after (32% with Lebron)

Players shoot better off of unpredictable ball movement rather than predictable ball-dominance where defenders close-out better

lebron's teams are consistently top 5 and multiple years he's the leading the best playoff offense which matters. Curry's offenses outside the durant years are often average, gs is dominant in the playoffs because of their defense.

Wiggins isnt an elite sidekick but klay in 2015 was(as was dray). Both made all-nba teams and were deserving(both comfortably top 15 in impact metrics). The warriors in 2015 made up for wiggins not being a great sidekick by having 4 really good players to support curry in wiggins, dray, poole, klay. Tony Parker/giniboli ofc are elite too lol.

Kyrie also greatly improved with lebron. Ofc klay and dray started off as low producers, most rookies dont come in high producers. For ginobili specifically, some people think he could've been an all star every year if he was the lead guy on another team. He made 2 all star games in San Antonio and sacrificed numbers.

The 39% the year before really doesnt matter much when ingram didnt even take 2 a game. There's too much variance for just 82 games even more so when you dont take many attempts. He also shot 29% his rookie year and 32% last year even though he's playing in a "ball movement" system. Defenses can also be guarding him very differently by year based on his team. However, it's indicative he got better at shooting when his volume went way up in new orleans even though bron's specialty is getting open 3's for other guys.

Free throw shooting is much better and reliable indicator of shooting ability because defense/teammates arent a factor and most guys take way more ft's than 3's. With the Lakers, ingram shot 62%, 68%, 68% from the ft line. In New Orleans, he's shot 85%, 88%, 83%

[Jud]

**** you.

You're a mod. Ban that idiot

[Jud]

3ball writing multiple paragraphs daily to try and belittle LeBron. Get a life loser :roll::roll:

https://img.freepik.com/premium-photo/fat-man-with-glasses-headphones-sitting-table-eating-playing-pc-game-home-self-isolation-quarantine_186451-479.jpg

[Sportal]

You do have to wonder why and how so many Lebron led teams never truly become supremely dominant. With so many years under his belt with talent rich teams he should be able to organize the roster into a juggernaut some of the time. It rarely happened, maybe once with the Heat if I remember correctly. Hardly GOAT material for a player with such a high IQ.

I am uncomfortable with this statement... LeBron's teams have been historically shallow after the first couple of options... The Cavs had like 1 and a half good players, which included LeBron, and then you had players like Delonte West as your 3rd best player. You are not winning with Delonte West as your 3rd best player on your team, seriously. You wanna talk about the Heatles? The Heatles had a 32 year old Mike Bibby, Mario Chalmers as your starting PG, James Jones and Mike Miller as your 3 and D players... Even Carlos Arroyo started 42 games in their first year together...

Should they have lost to Dallas? No I don't think so. You would have expected the level of the players at the top of the Heatles to completely make up for the bottom talent of the team. Then LeBron had a TERRIBLE series vs Dallas, and everyone puts that series on LeBron, which is fair. The Dallas match-up proved that yeah, the Heat had 3 out of the best 4 players in the series, but the next maybe 8 players from Dallas were better than what Miami had as 4th options. Basketball is a team sport, and LeBron will forever be reminded of that.

So, stop saying "talent rich teams", thanks.

[Axe]

How did your day went at the playground op?

[Sportal]

When did the Finals streak start?

It started with the "decision" to consolidate power in the East by teaming up with the top two 1at options in the conference - completely manufactured and unimpressive.. Before the "decision", he was a 1-trick pony with 1 Finals run like Iverson or Dwight, or a career-losing ball-dominator like CP3 or Luka.

The reality is that losing the Finals means that you couldn't beat the other conference and
wouldn't make the Finals from the other conference - so Finals appearances are conference-dependant affairs and only winning them matters.

Ultimately, people knock Durant's collusion with Curry but he was breaking Lebron's collusion record - Lebron's "decision" locked down the league with 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite super-teams for 6 straight years.. So people shouldn't count Lebron's manufactured playoff runs anymore than they do Durant's

That was the Cavaliers' front office, and what happened in Boston that led LeBron to that decision. That Boston team could have been a problem for 3-5 years for the Cavaliers team that was being supplied to LeBron... If LeBron stayed in Cleveland he was looking at a potential title run in like 2013... With the record that the front office of the Cavaliers have had for LeBron's first 8 seasons, why would he risk it?

[sdot_thadon]

Bball IQ = knowing the best brand of ball and being able to develop teammates

Lebron is literally WOAT at both (brand of ball and teammate development)

aka low IQ... Just a dumb ball-dominator... Good vision though

Bro you literally listed like 2 out of 100 possible categories of BBALL IQ and probably 2 of the weakest almost never referred to points to use. IQ is way more than that but how could I expect such a shallow fellow to think any deeper than what you posted......

[3ba11]

That was the Cavaliers' front office, and what happened in Boston that led LeBron to that decision. That Boston team could have been a problem for 3-5 years for the Cavaliers team that was being supplied to LeBron... If LeBron stayed in Cleveland he was looking at a potential title run in like 2013... With the record that the front office of the Cavaliers have had for LeBron's first 8 seasons, why would he risk it?


That Boston team was ancient and already a big underdog to the Cavs in 2010.. The conference was literally going to be wide open for the next decade with Derozan and Hibbert as the main competition.

Post-injury, KG was a 14/7 bum - the Celtics were an old 50-win team and massive underdog to the league-favorite Cavs.. The only reason the Cavs were upset in that series is because Lebron averaged 34 on 53% to get a 2-1 lead as expected, but then 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to lose a 2-1 lead..

And we already have validation of Lebron's losing by the previous year when Lebron was a historic favorite and lost to a 1-star team - Dwight actually had the injury excuse (all-star Jameer Nelson was out for the series), but still won.. Lebron's 2 fringe all-stars (Zydrunas and Mo) were upset by Dwight's 1 fringe all-star (Rashard Lewis).. Again, this validates the upsets in 2010 and 2011 or the 22 on 35% in the 07' Finals or basically the same in the 08' ECSF.. So it's a trend from 07-11' and Lebron needed Wade to teach him how to perform under pressure.




With the record that the front office of the Cavaliers have had for LeBron's first 8 seasons, why would he risk it?


I know the idea is that Lebron was carrying bums - this is another false memory that flies in the face of the historical record.. Lebron/Zydrunas were both all-stars in 2005 and they added a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran high seed .. Lebron's casts from 2006-2009 had top 5 defenses, while the 1990 Bulls were 19th defensively and had less offensive help (Pippen was inferior offensively to Zydrunas, Hughes, or Mo based on scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48, etc).. The Cavs also had 2 guys that were equal or better than Horace Grant (2x all-star Zydrunas and all-defense Varejao).

Only in 1991 when Pippen became a better offensively than Zydrunas, Hughes or Mo did the Bulls have better cast than the 06-09' Cavs, but the 10' Cavs were superior to the 1st three-peat Bulls - Mo moved down the 3rd option, so the Cavs had a 3rd scoring option (which the Bulls never had), while also having the #7 defense (same as the 1st three-peat Bulls) and far more rebounding help or rim protection.

Ultimately, the 2008 Cavs were a 45-win team until Mo arrived in 2009 and showed everyone for the first time what Lebron can do with some elite spacing.. Mo improved the Cavs from 45 to 66 wins by getting higher stats across board than 90' Pippen (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency), while the Cavs had the #3 defense (better than the 1st three-peat Bulls)...So the 09' and 10' Cavs were stacked with better defenses and more scoring options than the 1st three-peat Bulls

[FilmyCogTurner]

define dominance? cuz we're talking about a player that has 4 titles, 10 finals appearances and at one point a 8yr consecutive run of the finals through the span of 19yrs.

his 1st yrs with the Cavs werent really talent rich, no matter how much 3ball whines it was, so dominance was his own doing if there was any during that time. he peaked with the Heat like you said but injuries...

wade had a free-fall decline
2nd Cavs stint immediately started off with injuries to Love and Kyrie, and then Kyrie asking out
Lakers, he suffered his first lengthy injury, AD is self explanatory

its apart of the game, much changes for any great player/team had their not been such setbacks

Dominance is being head and shoulders above the other title contenders. Lebron has had some great teams but they could never truly gel and be the all time teams they could and have been. Nothing even remotely close to the play of a 90s Bulls or 2015-2018 Warriors.

[Axe]

Dominance is being head and shoulders above the other title contenders. Lebron has had some great teams but they could never truly gel and be the all time teams they could and have been. Nothing even remotely close to the play of a 90s Bulls or 2015-2018 Warriors.
He's had talented teams a decade ago but they fail to be consistent in winning or being truly dominant throughout the league like those two teams mentioned. A very good coach and winning culture are requirements for that. Also for true team fans, they should be glad if their favorite teams have a winning record without their best player. Here tho? Freaks make fun of those cases because stans itb are ridiculous.

[Soundwave]

3ball is right on this which is why some people are getting really angry, lol. In 5-6 years no one will talk about any team LeBron was on as one of the memorable teams in NBA history and it's not because he didn't play with his fair share of talent.

[PeroAntic]

3ball is right on this which is why some people are getting really angry, lol. In 5-6 years no one will talk about any team LeBron was on as one of the memorable teams in NBA history and it's not because he didn't play with his fair share of talent.

WE KNOW. He said it a billion times. FFS get a life

[sdot_thadon]

3ball is right on this which is why some people are getting really angry, lol. In 5-6 years no one will talk about any team LeBron was on as one of the memorable teams in NBA history and it's not because he didn't play with his fair share of talent.

So what you're saying here is you agree Lebron doesn't have bball iq? Because that's what's being said here.

[3ba11]

So what you're saying here is you agree Lebron doesn't have bball iq? Because that's what's being said here.


In order to find the truth, we must be honest about what why Lebron formed super-teams..

Post injury, we know that KG was a 14/7 bum - the 2010 Celtics were an old 50-win team and massive underdogs (+500) to the league favorite Cavs (-500).

The only reason the Cavs were upset is because Lebron averaged 34 on 53% to achieve a 2-1 lead as expected, but then averaged 21 on 34% to lose the last 3 games.. We have validation that this wasn't some sort of weird fluke because he was upset by 1-star teams in 09' and 11' - so 2010 was sandwiched in between even more damning losses.. Then let's add the horrific performances in the 07' Finals and 08' Semis and now it's a clear trend - from 2007-2011, Lebron mostly wet the bed against Finals teams and needed Wade to teach him how to perform under pressure.

Ultimately, the 2010 East going to be wide open for the next decade where guys like Hibbert, Derozan and Lebron would've been duking it out every year - 1-star teams would've been sufficient to win the conference just like 2001-2009 when five 1-star teams won the conference (Iverson, Kidd, Kidd, Lebron, Dwight).. Somehow Lebron fled this optimal scenario and decided to consolidated power in the conference by teaming up with the top two 1st options in the conference - he needed to guarantee Finals runs so he literally manufactured them.

Lebron fleeing the organic route and pursing talent-based winning (super-teams) is evidence of a low IQ and further evidence of Lebron's low IQ is the lack of teammate development, great teammate fits, and examples of a superior brand of ball than peers.. Instead, there's a record of teammates cratering alongside him and horrific teammate fits, while numerous OPPONENTS have superior brand of ball.. And the historical record further proves the case - Lebron's "decision" yielded preseason favorites from 2011 to 2016 (on-paper, talent favorites) - but when the basketball started, this favored talent fell to underdog due to inferior brand of ball... Again, OPPONENTS had superior brand of ball, i.e. Lebron was the preseason favorite in 2016 and was supposed to flirt with 70 wins but instead Kawhi and Curry did (superior brands of ball).

[sdot_thadon]

In order to find the truth, we must be honest about what why Lebron formed super-teams..

Post injury, we know that KG was a 14/7 bum - the 2010 Celtics were an old 50-win team and massive underdogs (+500) to the league favorite Cavs (-500).

The only reason the Cavs were upset is because Lebron averaged 34 on 53% to achieve a 2-1 lead as expected, but then averaged 21 on 34% to lose the last 3 games.. We have validation that this wasn't some sort of weird fluke because he was upset by 1-star teams in 09' and 11' - so 2010 was sandwiched in between even more damning losses.. Then let's add the horrific performances in the 07' Finals and 08' Semis and now it's a clear trend - from 2007-2011, Lebron mostly wet the bed against Finals teams and needed Wade to teach him how to perform under pressure.

Ultimately, the 2010 East going to be wide open for the next decade where guys like Hibbert, Derozan and Lebron would've been duking it out every year - 1-star teams would've been sufficient to win the conference just like 2001-2009 when five 1-star teams won the conference (Iverson, Kidd, Kidd, Lebron, Dwight).. Somehow Lebron fled this optimal scenario and decided to consolidated power in the conference by teaming up with the top two 1st options in the conference - he needed to guarantee Finals runs so he literally manufactured them.

Lebron fleeing the organic route and pursing talent-based winning (super-teams) is evidence of a low IQ and further evidence of Lebron's low IQ is the lack of teammate development, great teammate fits, and examples of a superior brand of ball than peers.. Instead, there's a record of teammates cratering alongside him and horrific teammate fits, while numerous OPPONENTS have superior brand of ball.. And the historical record further proves the case - Lebron's "decision" yielded preseason favorites from 2011 to 2016 (on-paper, talent favorites) - but when the basketball started, this favored talent fell to underdog due to inferior brand of ball... Again, OPPONENTS had superior brand of ball, i.e. Lebron was the preseason favorite in 2016 and was supposed to flirt with 70 wins but instead Kawhi and Curry did (superior brands of ball).

Lebron formed A super-team, in 2011and it wasn't so super anymore by year 3. The cavs were a super-team of guys who couldn't even make the playoffs even once? :oldlol: Your problem is you see the game from a really warped perspective of what's important and what's reality. And you post massive walls of text to get to a point so shallow points that don't take that much to convey.

[3ba11]

Lebron formed A super-team, in 2011and it wasn't so super anymore by year 3.





Wade was All-NBA in 2013 and achieved prime Pippen stats, including the 2013 Finals where Wade's 20/5/5 would rank as 3rd or 4th-best in Pippen's career, except probably higher due to superior 2nd half, 4th quarter and clutch stats.

Infact, the 13' Finals saw Wade perform as a near-equal-scoring partner to Lebron - this attracted near-equal defensive attention, so Lebron didn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals).. Pippen never did that for Jordan - Jordan always had to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), especially down the stretch where Pippen was literally Andre Roberson.

Ultimately, Wade averaged 21/5/5 with a 21 PER and all-star status form 2013 to 2016 - this is prime Pippen performance..

Furthermore, after Lebron left in 2014 and the injury year in 2015, Wade nearly carried the Heat to the 16' ECF just like 94' Pippen - the difference was that Wade was up there with Curry (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?PORound=2&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS) by leading the 2nd Round in clutch points, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% (https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/6q8E2n.gif) in the 4th quarter of the 94' loss to Ewing.. So fossil Wade from 2013 to 2016 had simply fallen to prime Pippen caliber - that's why you thought he sucked - now you know how I feel about Pippen.






The cavs were a super-team of guys who couldn't even make the playoffs even once?





Kyrie was a rookie and sophomore, so he was losing his ass just like Lebron did as a rookie and sophomore...

But unlike Pippen, who destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months, Kyrie was doing what elite 1st options do - he was BUILDING the Cavs each year and made them just attractive enough for Lebron to invest one of his collusions back into his hometown..

Btw, Lebron didn't join the Cavs by himself - he brought another top 10 player in Kevin Love (2nd team All-NBA) - Love was an absolute stud at the time, so Lebron fans are just disingenuous by denying his greatness and pretending Lebron returned to Cleveland by himself.. The Cavs had three elite 1st options on 1 team (super-team), which no other team in the league had - that's why they were the preseason favorite (Klay/Dray hadn't even been all-stars yet, while Kyrie/Love were already stars).