Can I interest you in some possibly undervalued Nuggets stock?

[Kblaze8855]

Back to back mvp gets back two(justified or not) max contract guys healthy on a team he drug kicking and screaming into competence.

Might be getting a deal right now.

[tontoz]

Yeah they are definitely contenders imo.

I wonder if locals can actually watch their games. Pretty sure they couldn't last year due to a cable problem. I heard their games were blacked out locally.

[fourkicks44]

A dem Bones, dem Bones......

[Full Court]

A lot of potential...I'd love to see them reach it, but the West is going to be tough this year.

[Sportal]

Back to back mvp gets back two(justified or not) max contract guys healthy on a team he drug kicking and screaming into competence.

Might be getting a deal right now.

If I didn't wanna wish Zion's impact on the playoffs into existence, I'd state that the Nuggets are supreme dark horses for a title this season. They don't poorly match up with the Warriors or the Clippers in any way, imo... But I don't think the Nuggets are as deep as the Warriors, at the very least.

Like, after Jokic, the Nuggets have some streaky players... Their title would rely on Murray performing close to Bubble Murray, which was nasty, for the entire playoffs.

[Full Court]

If I didn't wanna wish Zion's impact on the playoffs into existence, I'd state that the Nuggets are supreme dark horses for a title this season. They don't poorly match up with the Warriors or the Clippers in any way, imo... But I don't think the Nuggets are as deep as the Warriors, at the very least.

Like, after Jokic, the Nuggets have some streaky players... Their title would rely on Murray performing close to Bubble Murray, which was nasty, for the entire playoffs.

I favor the Grizzlies over them. Grizzlies are DEEP.

[Sportal]

I favor the Grizzlies over them. Grizzlies are DEEP.

Over who? Over the Pelicans? Or Nuggets...? Either way.. idk man.

[Spuddywebby]

Unfortunately MPJ won’t play a full season again. He is this generations AD except AD actually played 60+ games his first 6 seasons and I don’t think MPJ will play over 50 games any time soon.

[Full Court]

Over who? Over the Pelicans? Or Nuggets...? Either way.. idk man.

Over both. But it's REALLY close. The West in General is a tossup among like seven teams.

[90sgoat]

Nah, I'm not buying, I'm shorting.

Murray is not a good enough sidekick for the Joker and Jokic himself needs to be more of a force on both sides of the floor.

Luka gonna wipe Nuggets off the floor. 4-0.

[FultzNationRISE]

Was disappointed they didnt bring Cousins back after his great showing in the playoffs against GS, he was perfect in the backup role behind Joker. Apparently they weren't convinced about his health. Seems they signed DeAndre Jordan instead, a definite downgrade.

KCP should fit the starting lineup well in the 3&D role, and yeah their starting lineup is gonna be pretty potent when healthy. As others mentioned, depth is the obvious concern.

[Kblaze8855]

Not keeping cousins is a head scratcher. DJ isn’t capable of half what DC was doing in the playoffs.

[FultzNationRISE]

Not keeping cousins is a head scratcher. DJ isn’t capable of half what DC was doing in the playoffs.

Whats even weirder is that NOBODY has signed Cousins, despite the fact he's available to play and ready to go. There are simply no takers right now.

I'm sure that changes at some point in the season when injuries start happening, but it's quite surprising no team is willing at the moment to even use a roster space to get dibs on him.

[90sgoat]

Not keeping cousins is a head scratcher. DJ isn’t capable of half what DC was doing in the playoffs.

Don't tell me Deandre found a new sucker to leech off? :facepalm

Deandre haven't been worth a contract since he left Clippers.

[Proctor]

Was disappointed they didnt bring Cousins back after his great showing in the playoffs against GS, he was perfect in the backup role behind Joker. Apparently they weren't convinced about his health. Seems they signed DeAndre Jordan instead, a definite downgrade.

KCP should fit the starting lineup well in the 3&D role, and yeah their starting lineup is gonna be pretty potent when healthy. As others mentioned, depth is the obvious concern.
This.

I'm not a buyer yet. Deandre Jordan is an obvious downgrade. Aaron Gordon is a sack of shit. Not quite where they should be defensively and offensively they are missing something even with MPJ and Murray back.

[Pitbull]

I hope Jamal Murray performs at the level.

[imdaman99]

Murray and MPJ are both bad defenders. Their return def makes them better but hardly championship contenders.

[Sulico]

Murray is not a good player. He's OK, but he doesn't move the needle the way high paid player should. And Porter is big unknown. Will he play? Are we that sure?

[Kblaze8855]

Murray is not a good player.


So what are the 400+ players worse than him?

Where does “good” begin?

[SaltyMeatballs]

Murray is not a good player. He's OK, but he doesn't move the needle the way high paid player should. And Porter is big unknown. Will he play? Are we that sure?

Mental illness

[Sulico]

So what are the 400+ players worse than him?

Where does “good” begin?

I don't compare Murray with rookies and bench warmers. If he was 8 million a year player he would be very good.

I would say good starts at about 3.5 BPM.

[JohnMax]

I don't care for Jokic but Murray is my favorite shooting guard after Klay Thompson so I'll root for them over teams I dislike such as Clippers.

[Chuckbe]

I really hope MPJ stays healthy, he has the wettest jumper I've ever seen besides Curry.

[Kblaze8855]

I don't compare Murray with rookies and bench warmers. If he was 8 million a year player he would be very good.

I would say good starts at about 3.5 BPM.


So when Steph went from 12 million in 2017 to 34 million 2018 did he actually get worse or are we picking and choosing when skill relative to value determines how good one is instead of basketball?

[jayfan]

I don't think their stock is undervalued right now. Lots of folks have them finishing top 2 or 3 out west.

I love the Nuggets if Murray & Porter Jr. can stay healthy. There's not a team in the league with a better top 3 than Denver.

But both of them staying healthy seems so unlikely, considering their track records.

[hold this L]

Nah, I'm not buying, I'm shorting.

Murray is not a good enough sidekick for the Joker and Jokic himself needs to be more of a force on both sides of the floor.

Luka gonna wipe Nuggets off the floor. 4-0.

lol healthy Nuggets would wipe the Mavs off the court.

[Sulico]

So when Steph went from 12 million in 2017 to 34 million 2018 did he actually get worse or are we picking and choosing when skill relative to value determines how good one is instead of basketball?

That is exactly what we are doing. This is cap space league. Everybody in the NBA are good basketball players, including Murray, I know that. He is bad max player though, that's why Nuggets never winning title with him. He occupies too much cap space for what he brings to the table.

Steph would've become worse player with the new contract on a normal team, and that would've lowered their chances. It's just Warriors don't care about cap, unlike Nuggets, so his value didn't really change a bit.

If a normal team gets prime Steph for 12 mil, rather than 34 mil, do they have better chance to win it all? Absolutely. In vacuum, Steph is the same player, but relative to his contract, he is MUCH better player on that 12 mil contract.

[tontoz]

Murray not a good player? In his last healthy season he averaged 26.5/6.5/4.8 in the playoffs (19 games) with a TS of 59%.

[ShawkFactory]

That is exactly what we are doing. This is cap space league. Everybody in the NBA are good basketball players, including Murray, I know that. He is bad max player though, that's why Nuggets never winning title with him. He occupies too much cap space for what he brings to the table.

Steph would've become worse player with the new contract on a normal team, and that would've lowered their chances. It's just Warriors don't care about cap, unlike Nuggets, so his value didn't really change a bit.

If a normal team gets prime Steph for 12 mil, rather than 34 mil, do they have better chance to win it all? Absolutely. In vacuum, Steph is the same player, but relative to his contract, he is MUCH better player on that 12 mil contract.

The cap doesn't really have anything to do with the team as it is constructed right now this year. Which is what the discussion is about.

If you don't think the Nuggets as they currently are can win a title because of Murray's contract then fine. But we aren't talking about them not being able to pick up FAs going forward.

[90sgoat]

Murray not a good player? In his last healthy season he averaged 26.5/6.5/4.8 in the playoffs (19 games) with a TS of 59%.

Does he play defense? Does he playmake?

No.

[tontoz]

Does he play defense? Does he playmake?

No.


LOL he averaged 4.8 assists per game for years, over 6 in his last healthy playoffs. And that is playing with Jokic who does a lot of their playmaking.

[FultzNationRISE]

Does he play defense? Does he playmake?

No.

Well they aint askin him to be LEBRON.

Jokic is their playmaker anyway, Murray is in that Tony Parker role where he puts a lot of scoring pressure on the defense, wearin em out and keeping em honest.

[Akeem34TheDream]

I don't compare Murray with rookies and bench warmers. If he was 8 million a year player he would be very good.

I would say good starts at about 3.5 BPM.

Weirdo

[90sgoat]

Well they aint askin him to be LEBRON.

Jokic is their playmaker anyway, Murray is in that Tony Parker role where he puts a lot of scoring pressure on the defense, wearin em out and keeping em honest.

More like a fentanyl fiend Steph Curry imo.

Parker created by penetrating, Murray just runs of screens and chucks.

Which is valuable sure, but it doesn't create space for Jokic, like Parker created space for Duncan.

[Kblaze8855]

That is exactly what we are doing. This is cap space league. Everybody in the NBA are good basketball players, including Murray, I know that. He is bad max player though, that's why Nuggets never winning title with him. He occupies too much cap space for what he brings to the table.

Steph would've become worse player with the new contract on a normal team, and that would've lowered their chances. It's just Warriors don't care about cap, unlike Nuggets, so his value didn't really change a bit.

If a normal team gets prime Steph for 12 mil, rather than 34 mil, do they have better chance to win it all? Absolutely. In vacuum, Steph is the same player, but relative to his contract, he is MUCH better player on that 12 mil contract.


Luka makes 10 million this season against a 134 million dollar cap.

Has anyone ever been better at basketball than he is right now?

Or does being on a rookie contract mean he can’t be ranked as a player yet?

Does Ja Morant even exist? If so….is it possible his ability can offset the fact that his salary will grow for the next 10 years?

Can one’s ability increase enough to offset contract increases or does everyone get worse yearly even while getting better at the game?


Are we being ****ing stupid right now?

[Sulico]

Luka makes 10 million this season against a 134 million dollar cap.

Has anyone ever been better at basketball than he is right now?

Or does being on a rookie contract mean he can’t be ranked as a player yet?

Does Ja Morant even exist? If so….is it possible his ability can offset the fact that his salary will grow for the next 10 years?

Can one’s ability increase enough to offset contract increases or does everyone get worse yearly even while getting better at the game?


Are we being ****ing stupid right now?

Maybe some of us do.

If you can't understand the concept of Andrew Wiggins being bad, lottery bound player while getting 25% of team's salary, and very good player and a champion getting 15% of salary, all while being Andrew Wiggins both times, I can't really help you.

[ImKobe]

Their value is about where it should be going into the season. They should be a legitimate contender if MPJ and Murray are both healthy come Playoff time.

[Kblaze8855]

Maybe some of us do.

If you can't understand the concept of Andrew Wiggins being bad, lottery bound player while getting 25% of team's salary, and very good player and a champion getting 15% of salary, all while being Andrew Wiggins both times, I can't really help you.

He got 28% of the cap winning the ring and 25% when minny was in the lottery but we are obviously just being idiots so…whatever.

[NugzFan]

I favor the Grizzlies over them. Grizzlies are DEEP.

Who is on the grizzlies’ bench?

[tontoz]

LOL i just remembered they traded for KCP who should be a great fit there. Good defender and 3 pt shooter.

His big weakness is trying to create off the dribble which he won't be doing much playing with Jokic and Murray.

[Chuckbe]

LOL i just remembered they traded for KCP who should be a great fit there. Good defender and 3 pt shooter.

His big weakness is trying to create off the dribble which he won't be doing much playing with Jokic and Murray.

They got Bruce Brown too, who's also a good wee player

[1987_Lakers]

No thanks, Murray and Porter are too injury prone.

[warriorfan]

He got 28% of the cap winning the ring and 25% when minny was in the lottery but we are obviously just being idiots so…whatever.

the curry effect

[Sulico]

He got 28% of the cap winning the ring and 25% when minny was in the lottery but we are obviously just being idiots so…whatever.

I said team's salary, not cap. Cap is irrelevant if your team goes above it.

[Kblaze8855]

So if a team would have a 130 salary after all raises but a bird rights rookie Supermax young guy is entering the first year of an extension that bumps him to 28 so now there’s a 158 salary everyone on the team just got better(lower percentage of team salary) while the young guy gets worse even if he’s actually improving….

The existing guy who was 30 out of 130 is now 33 out of 158 with his teammates raise. He is now better at basketball due to dropping from like 23ish to 18-19 percent of team salary.

This is what makes sense to you?

[dankok8]

I think they don't have enough defense but if they stay healthy they could be a total offensive juggernaut.

[FultzNationRISE]

I think they don't have enough defense but if they stay healthy they could be a total offensive juggernaut.

Yeah, defense and depth look like theyre gonna be an issue.

I was pretty high on them based on the idea of MPJ and Bubble Murray being added back to an already decent team, but we certainly didnt see Bubble Murray last night, they also lost Cousins, and there doesnt look to be a whole lot of defense to speak of on this team.

Might have to reconsider their stock value a bit.

That said, it was just 1 game, no telling how the season plays out just yet.

[Sulico]

So if a team would have a 130 salary after all raises but a bird rights rookie Supermax young guy is entering the first year of an extension that bumps him to 28 so now there’s a 158 salary everyone on the team just got better(lower percentage of team salary) while the young guy gets worse even if he’s actually improving….

The existing guy who was 30 out of 130 is now 33 out of 158 with his teammates raise. He is now better at basketball due to dropping from like 23ish to 18-19 percent of team salary.

This is what makes sense to you?

Look, you lying and twisting numbers, and playing or just being stupid. If you can't grasp how prime Lebron for 1 million a year is a better contributor for a team than Lebron for 100 mil a year, I don't have the energy to explain with my broken English.

You probably studied liberal arts in college or some shit.

[Kblaze8855]

I just…have a little common sense. Value is determined by a lot of things that aren’t an issue of how good you are as basketball. Luka made 10 million last year. 37 million this year. He didn’t drop from best in the league to 12th because of it. It’s two different questions you seem to have a hard time grasping. Young superstars do not decline the rest of their primes when their extensions kick in. If your system of rating players demands they get worse even as they get better you obviously aren’t ranking anyone as players.

[Sulico]

I just…have a little common sense. Value is determined by a lot of things that aren’t an issue of how good you are as basketball. Luka made 10 million last year. 37 million this year. He didn’t drop from best in the league to 12th because of it. It’s two different questions you seem to have a hard time grasping. Young superstars do not decline the rest of their primes when their extensions kick in. If your system of rating players demands they get worse even as they get better you obviously aren’t ranking anyone as players.

God damn it's hard to explain numbers to some people.

Luka absolutely became worse. Dallas feel it indirectly, not in terms of less production from Luka, he is the same player in vaccum, maybe he even improved, but they feel it in their inability to sign anyone to replace Brunson who left. If Luka were 10 mil player still, they would've signed Brunson substitute.

For example. If you buy Kia car for 15K$ its a very nice car. If you buy it for 1 million $ it's a terrible car. You don't feel it directly in Kia's performance, it's the same car, but you feel the difference when you can't buy other stuff in your daily life that you otherwise would've bought. So, while Kia's performance didn't change, no matter how much you paid, your overall life does change depending on the price you paid.

More than that, let's say that after buying your Kia for 15K$, you brought it to cars show with other 15K$ cars. People would come, look and say "that's a nice ride, dude".
Now you brought your Kia to the million dollar cars show with Lamborginis, Ferraris and similar shit. You would hear how terrible your piece of shit car a lot. Same car, i remind you.

[Akeem34TheDream]

God damn it's hard to explain numbers to some people.

Luka absolutely became worse. Dallas feel it indirectly, not in terms of less production from Luka, he is the same player in vaccum, maybe he even improved, but they feel it in their inability to sign anyone to replace Brunson who left. If Luka were 10 mil player still, they would've signed Brunson substitute.

For example. If you buy Kia car for 15K$ its a very nice car. If you buy it for 1 million $ it's a terrible car. You don't feel it directly in Kia's performance, it's the same car, but you feel the difference when you can't buy other stuff in your daily life that you otherwise would've bought. So, while Kia's performance didn't change, no matter how much you paid, your overall life does change depending on the price you paid.

More than that, let's say that after buying your Kia for 15K$, you brought it to cars show with other 15K$ cars. People would come, look and say "that's a nice ride, dude".
Now you brought your Kia to the million dollar cars show with Lamborginis, Ferraris and similar shit. You would hear how terrible your piece of shit car a lot. Same car, i remind you.

The problem is you calling players good or bad based on the cap when you should just say salary efficient or good contract or sth. You are not actually arguing concepts but terms and it is silly.

[Sulico]

The problem is you calling players good or bad based on the cap when you should just say salary efficient or good contract or sth. You are not actually arguing concepts but terms and it is silly.

Maybe I'm missing something, I thought "good" was relative. I was called "good player" on my local court, yet I've seen people call Lebron "bad player" on this board. Does this mean I'm better than Lebron?

People have to define what good or bad means, and thats what we're doing. He thinks you just have to be good relative to all 400 other NBA players to be considered good, I argue that you only good if you better than players with similar or more expensive contracts.

[Kblaze8855]

The problem is you calling players good or bad based on the cap when you should just say salary efficient or good contract or sth. You are not actually arguing concepts but terms and it is silly.

And isn’t even consistent about it for the record. On the subject of Trae Young recently:




The numbers are big, but impact is lacking. And no D whatsoever.



But he’s an all NBA player who not only has put up monstrous numbers but led his team to the conference finals and then till this season never made more than $9 million. If he was legitimately only judging players relative to their contracts Trae was obviously one of the best players in the league. But he isn’t. He’s judging people of basketball like everyone else but selectively choosing to pretend he doesn’t.

Hell the salary cap has only existed for about half the leagues history anyway. The first season of a salary cap other than an experimental one in the 40s was Michael Jordan’s rookie year.

[ShawkFactory]

Maybe I'm missing something, I thought "good" was relative. I was called "good player" on my local court, yet I've seen people call Lebron "bad player" on this board. Does this mean I'm better than Lebron?

People have to define what good or bad means, and thats what we're doing. He thinks you just have to be good relative to all 400 other NBA players to be considered good, I argue that you only good if you better than players with similar or more expensive contracts.

This analogy makes absolutely no sense. They're all playing in the same league.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This analogy makes absolutely no sense. They're all playing in the same league.
While that may be true the method of analysis gives me one more method for talking about why the Nets suck so it must be correct.

[DMAVS41]

Maybe I'm missing something, I thought "good" was relative. I was called "good player" on my local court, yet I've seen people call Lebron "bad player" on this board. Does this mean I'm better than Lebron?

People have to define what good or bad means, and thats what we're doing. He thinks you just have to be good relative to all 400 other NBA players to be considered good, I argue that you only good if you better than players with similar or more expensive contracts.

How good someone is at basketball has nothing to do with how much salary cap they eat up.

What you are meaning to talk about is value in terms of factoring in salary. Even then it isn't as big of an issue as you are claiming with the Luka example, but yes...of course Luka at 10 million per year is more valuable to a team than he is at 40 million per year...this is so obvious it is a non point.

[Kblaze8855]

How good someone is at basketball has nothing to do with how much salary cap they eat up.

What you are meaning to talk about is value in terms of factoring in salary. Even then it isn't as big of an issue as you are claiming with the Luka example, but yes...of course Luka at 10 million per year is more valuable to a team than he is at 40 million per year...this is so obvious it is a non point.


Yea it’s pretty clear he isn’t talking about basketball but can’t just say that so let me pose you a related question to change the subject a bit…..


In 1998 the cap was just under 27 million. Using the line of thinking he’s proposing how many of these players would be considered good? For reference purposes Coleman’s salary is the modern cap equivalent of 41 million dollars.


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2210212050320345.jpeg

[DMAVS41]

I doubt, even using his line of thinking, anyone was going to say Jordan wasn't good because he took up the entire cap or whatever....but, I don't know...if we are adopting the non basketball talk and you aren't good enough to be the clear cut best player on a title team...probably can't say you are good if you are making up 1/3 or 1/2 of the a team's cap.

Horace Grant might be considered the worst player ever on his scale.

[Sulico]

And isn’t even consistent about it for the record. On the subject of Trae Young recently:







But he’s an all NBA player who not only has put up monstrous numbers but led his team to the conference finals and then till this season never made more than $9 million. If he was legitimately only judging players relative to their contracts Trae was obviously one of the best players in the league. But he isn’t. He’s judging people of basketball like everyone else but selectively choosing to pretend he doesn’t.

Hell the salary cap has only existed for about half the leagues history anyway. The first season of a salary cap other than an experimental one in the 40s was Michael Jordan’s rookie year.

Obviously? For who?

I was judging Trae by his 9 mil contract. He was very solid player on his rookie contract, now he is below average player and the main reason for Hawks mediocrity for years to come.

You see, I don't care about counting stats at all. When I look at what Trae Young brings to the table, I see 5 BPM, .180 WS/48 and +3.4 On/Off in the regular season, which is quite good, and -8 BPM, -.139 WS/48 and -16.1 On/Off in the Playoffs, which is god awful. And I'm not even diving deeper into RAPTOR, RAPM, RPM or similar metrics. According to those Trae Young is absolutely worst defender in the league, among players that played more than 1500 minutes last season. And his total impact on the game is similar to that of Patrick Beverley, who is on 13 mil a year contract.

Trae Young on a max contract makes you 8-6th seed and 1st or 2nd round exit, and that's on a good year. And by the way, Atlanta have very solid players on their roster. If they make some bad moves, Trae Young will be collecting them ping-pong balls.

[NBAGOAT]

Obviously? For who?

I was judging Trae by his 9 mil contract. He was very solid player on his rookie contract, now he is below average player and the main reason for Hawks mediocrity for years to come.

You see, I don't care about counting stats at all. When I look at what Trae Young brings to the table, I see 5 BPM, .180 WS/48 and +3.4 On/Off in the regular season, which is quite good, and -8 BPM, -.139 WS/48 and -16.1 On/Off in the Playoffs, which is god awful. And I'm not even diving deeper into RAPTOR, RAPM, RPM or similar metrics. According to those Trae Young is absolutely worst defender in the league, among players that played more than 1500 minutes last season. And his total impact on the game is similar to that of Patrick Beverley, who is on 13 mil a year contract.

Trae Young on a max contract makes you 8-6th seed and 1st or 2nd round exit, and that's on a good year. And by the way, Atlanta have very solid players on their roster. If they make some bad moves, Trae Young will be collecting them ping-pong balls.

playoff sample size is too small size to put much stock into those stats

[SATAN]

Wow. This Sulico guy is a total moron.

[Full Court]

Maybe I'm missing something, I thought "good" was relative. I was called "good player" on my local court, yet I've seen people call Lebron "bad player" on this board. Does this mean I'm better than Lebron?

People have to define what good or bad means, and thats what we're doing. He thinks you just have to be good relative to all 400 other NBA players to be considered good, I argue that you only good if you better than players with similar or more expensive contracts.

You're making "good" relative to salary, when everyone else measures "good" relative to performance. That's the problem.

[TheGoatest]

They ain't going anywhere serious without Jamal Murray.

[Sulico]

playoff sample size is too small size to put much stock into those stats

I totally agree. But even his regular season wasn't very impressive. Offensively it was, but he is the WORST defender in the league.

[Sulico]

You're making "good" relative to salary, when everyone else measures "good" relative to performance. That's the problem.

Performance and salary. You have to take both into account, otherwise its just a fantasy league, and it's not how real life works.

There is a reason why same players and same teams always win championships. Because if you pay prime Lebron or prime Curry max salary you get what you paid for and more, but if you pay same salary to Trae Youngs, Bradley Beals, Rudy Goberts of the world, you get much MUCH less and can't compete.

[DMAVS41]

Obviously? For who?

I was judging Trae by his 9 mil contract. He was very solid player on his rookie contract, now he is below average player and the main reason for Hawks mediocrity for years to come.

You see, I don't care about counting stats at all. When I look at what Trae Young brings to the table, I see 5 BPM, .180 WS/48 and +3.4 On/Off in the regular season, which is quite good, and -8 BPM, -.139 WS/48 and -16.1 On/Off in the Playoffs, which is god awful. And I'm not even diving deeper into RAPTOR, RAPM, RPM or similar metrics. According to those Trae Young is absolutely worst defender in the league, among players that played more than 1500 minutes last season. And his total impact on the game is similar to that of Patrick Beverley, who is on 13 mil a year contract.

Trae Young on a max contract makes you 8-6th seed and 1st or 2nd round exit, and that's on a good year. And by the way, Atlanta have very solid players on their roster. If they make some bad moves, Trae Young will be collecting them ping-pong balls.

At least say "below average value" on his new contract...he is not changing as a "basketball player" because of something that happens off the court. His value is changing...and, again, is there anyone that even disputes that Trae on a rookie contract is a better value than Trae on a max contract?

Also, as has been pointed out already, but might as well say it again...the sample size for the playoffs can cause one to poorly use statistics.

[DMAVS41]

Performance and salary. You have to take both into account, otherwise its just a fantasy league, and it's not how real life works.

There is a reason why same players and same teams always win championships. Because if you pay prime Lebron or prime Curry max salary you get what you paid for and more, but if you pay same salary to Trae Youngs, Bradley Beals, Rudy Goberts of the world, you get much MUCH less and can't compete.

That is value....not how good a player is at basketball.

Luka did not just, all of a sudden, get worse at basketball because someone is paying nearly 4 times as much off the court. His value to his team, however, did lessen as he is eating up more of the salary cap than he was before.

This is not hard.

[Full Court]

Performance and salary. You have to take both into account, otherwise its just a fantasy league, and it's not how real life works.

There is a reason why same players and same teams always win championships. Because if you pay prime Lebron or prime Curry max salary you get what you paid for and more, but if you pay same salary to Trae Youngs, Bradley Beals, Rudy Goberts of the world, you get much MUCH less and can't compete.

No, I don't have to take both into account. I'm not a team general manager, so it really means nothing to me how much money players are getting paid. I'm looking only at performance. Are some players overpaid relative to performance? Sure. But that's for their team's money crunchers to deal with. I'm just interested in how they play ball. If I'm assessing who is better between two players, their salary is not a factor I consider.

[Street Hunger]

Don't feel strongly about the Nuggets and not sure why.

[tontoz]

1 game out of first flying under the radar. Nobody on the team playing over 32 minutes per game.

[theman93]

The West feels wide open. They're just as good or better than any other team in the West and will be tough to beat if they end up as the 1 seed. Denver is a tough place to play.

[Chuckbe]

1 game out of first flying under the radar. Nobody on the team playing over 32 minutes per game.

Big test tomorrow against the C's, although it is still early

[bison]

1 game out of first flying under the radar. Nobody on the team playing over 32 minutes per game.

It still feels like it’s the suns and warriors conference to win, despite warriors struggles. Memphis will find it’s footing and will be up there with Denver. Interesting to see when and if Portland and Utah’s bubble burst.

[post]

1 game out of first flying under the radar. Nobody on the team playing over 32 minutes per game.

bad for business

jokic doesn't sell many jerseys

how good could he be

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jokic might get a 40 point triple double if the Celtics don't play Horford over 30 minutes. Tatum and Brown will have to go for 30 each again to balance it.

[post]

Jokic might get a 40 point triple double if the Celtics don't play Horford over 30 minutes. Tatum and Brown will have to go for 30 each again to balance it.

old big al gonna have to get big

[post]

brogdon out

pritchard unchained

[post]

well

good representation of why denver probably won't win

[GrayGoat]

Celtics just wiped the floor with this “contender”

[post]

mvp contender

[Real Men Wear Green]

well

good representation of why denver probably won't win

Their defense looked terrible but that's probably not a normal performance. But I will mention that a year or two ago a few posters were saying that MPJ was on par with or potentially better than Tatum. Not naming names but...hell naw.. And if it isn't obvious that debate is now dead.

Denver needs a wing stopper maybe even two. I don't even know who was defending JB (maybe Porter?) but that person had no effect and Gordon was trying but Tatum barely noticed his presence.

Reverse dunk in JB was nasty though.

[GrayGoat]

Their defense looked terrible but that's probably not a normal performance. But I will mention that a year or two ago a few posters were saying that MPJ was on par with or potentially better than Tatum. Not naming names but...hell naw.. And if it isn't obvious that debate is now dead.

Denver needs a wing stopper maybe even two. I don't even know who was defending JB (maybe Porter?) but that person had no effect and Gordon was trying but Tatum barely noticed his presence.

Reverse dunk in JB was nasty though.
The thing is no one has wings like the Celtics do. We are a bad matchup for them and a lot of teams

[post]

Their defense looked terrible but that's probably not a normal performance. But I will mention that a year or two ago a few posters were saying that MPJ was on par with or potentially better than Tatum. Not naming names but...hell naw.. And if it isn't obvious that debate is now dead.

Denver needs a wing stopper maybe even two. I don't even know who was defending JB (maybe Porter?) but that person had no effect and Gordon was trying but Tatum barely noticed his presence.

Reverse dunk in JB was nasty though.

it is what it is whatever it is

it's this that and so on

[NBAGOAT]

denver's defense is capped but they can compete for a title with that offense if murray and porter are right.

[tontoz]

Their defense looked terrible but that's probably not a normal performance. But I will mention that a year or two ago a few posters were saying that MPJ was on par with or potentially better than Tatum. Not naming names but...hell naw.. And if it isn't obvious that debate is now dead.

Denver needs a wing stopper maybe even two. I don't even know who was defending JB (maybe Porter?) but that person had no effect and Gordon was trying but Tatum barely noticed his presence.

Reverse dunk in JB was nasty though.

Why don't you bump the thread and prove it? I dont think anyone said anything like that. It was more a case of poor reading comprehension on your part.

There never was a debate about who was the better player at the time or moving forward.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why don't you bump the thread and prove it? I dont think anyone said anything like that. It was more a case of poor reading comprehension on your part.

There never was a debate about who was the better player at the time or moving forward.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497849-MPJ-signs-max-deal-with-the-Nuggets-for-up-to-207-million&p=14445925&viewfull=1#post14445925

"Bump." I hate "reading comprehension" arguments. As boring as it gets.

[tontoz]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497849-MPJ-signs-max-deal-with-the-Nuggets-for-up-to-207-million&p=14445925&viewfull=1#post14445925

"Bump." I hate "reading comprehension" arguments. As boring as it gets.

That said you might want to read the thread again. Literally nobody said MPJ was as good as Tatum at the time and only one guy said MPJ would be better in the long run.

At this point the big question with MPJ is whether or not he can stay on the court.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That said you might want to read the thread again. Literally nobody said MPJ was as good as Tatum at the time and only one guy said MPJ would be better in the long run.

At this point the big question with MPJ is whether or not he can stay on the court.

No way Tatum will be better than MPJ in the long run
a few posters were saying that MPJ was on par with or potentially better than Tatum.Reading comprehension?

[tontoz]

Reading comprehension?

Exactly :roll:

" A few" is more than one and even that guy didn't say MPJ was "on par" with Tatum at that time.

RIF

[Real Men Wear Green]

Exactly :roll:

" A few" is more than one and even that guy didn't say MPJ was "on par" with Tatum at that time.

RIF
Tatum is clearly a better defender. He isn't the shooter MPJ is though. It remains to be seen who ends up being better on offense.

Tatum has played 4 years, MPJ 2. and before you post another smiley, my quote, again:
few posters were saying that MPJ was on par with or potentially better than Tatum. I bolded the word that I figure you might not make note of.

Is that enough?

[tontoz]

and before you post another smiley, my quote, again:I billed the word that I figure you might not make note of.

Is that enough?


Again that is a reading comprehension fail. Do I really have to explain this?

When judging who the better player is you take everything into account, offense, defense and reliability. Saying a guy might be potentially better on offense is not the same thing as saying they could be better overall.

Tatum was and is a far better defender who doesn't miss games. MPJ was, and still may be, a weak defender who's missed more games than he's played.


:facepalm

[Real Men Wear Green]

I guess it wasn't.:facepalm

[tontoz]

I guess it wasn't.:facepalm


The post you quoted said MPJ could be better on offense in the future. It didn't say that MPJ could be a better player in the future.




https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/RIF-Logo-black_large.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm not sure this could get more lame. But feel free to keep trying.

[tontoz]

I'm not sure this could get more lame. But feel free to keep trying.

Now I know why you don't like reading comprehension arguments.

You were the one who brought up the old thread. Either you remembered it wrong or never understood it in the first place.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Now I know why you don't like reading comprehension arguments.

You were the one who brought up the old thread. Either you remembered it wrong or never understood it in the first place.

I posted quotes that anyone that cares to can read. I don't like reading comprehension arguments because they are often stupid. The first quote was clearly someone saying Porter would be better. You jumped into the debate to argue that Porter could be the better offensive player. This is all true. I am pretty sure that people can read and draw their own conclusions.

[tontoz]

I posted quotes that anyone that cares to can read. I don't like reading comprehension arguments because they are often stupid. The first quote was clearly someone saying Porter would be better. You jumped into the debate to argue that Porter could be the better offensive player. This is all true. I am pretty sure that people can read and draw their own conclusions.


Pretty sure other people can understand the difference between saying a player could be better on offense vs saying they could be better overall.

And the first quote said MPJ would be better, not that he was better at that time.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Pretty sure other people can understand the difference between saying a player could be better on offense vs saying they could be better overall.

And the first quote said MPJ would be better, not that he was better at that time.
And my quote was "on par with or potentially better than. " You don't have an argument.

[tontoz]

And my quote was "on par with or potentially better than. " You don't have an argument.

Exactly. Saying a player " was on par with " is saying as good at that time. Nobody in the thread said that.

Saying " potentially better than" means better in the future. Only one guy said that.

And you said a few people, not one. Did you forget your own post already?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Moving on now.

[Kblaze8855]

Ground floor investors seeing good returns.

[highwhey]

good call OP. hope the heat eviscerate them.

[Kblaze8855]

I have no objection to either team winning. There really wasn’t a problem with any of the final 4. Nobody like Harden you just don’t wanna see rewarded or anything. It’s nice to not have to hate watch.

[highwhey]

I have no objection to either team winning. There really wasn’t a problem with any of the final 4. Nobody like Harden you just don’t wanna see rewarded or anything. It’s nice to not have to hate watch.

for you. i harbor great dislike for any team that knocks my suns out of the playoffs :mad:

[Kblaze8855]

See I’m the exact opposite. I feel like once you beat us at least have the courtesy to beat everyone else. You beat us in 6-7 then go lose to someone else it’s like we weren’t even a serious team to begin with. Now you win the title?

We did as well as anyone else did vs the champs. I can silver lining that shit.

[Kblaze8855]

I wonder what the return would be on a thousand dollar preseason bet.

Not that I’d have made it.

[Proctor]

This.

I'm not a buyer yet. Deandre Jordan is an obvious downgrade. Aaron Gordon is a sack of shit. Not quite where they should be defensively and offensively they are missing something even with MPJ and Murray back.
Yeah I was dead wrong about Denver numerous times including this.

With AG, Malone and Jokic maximize him to his absolute best. He is a dream pairing with Jokic.