Imagine MJ in an era where he can get players like Looney, Luka, and Kyrie switched

[BigShotBob]

onto him....

Nobody talks about that most players are guarded one on one by bigs and smaller guards on switches. Saddest thing I've ever seen.

[GrayGoat]

Yeah imagine MJ having to guard Kyrie instead of Hornacek. Stfu you idiot

[warriorfan]

Yeah imagine MJ having to guard Kyrie instead of Hornacek. Stfu you idiot

mj has equal foot speed and a huge wingspan with great hands, he would give kyrie fits while locking him down

imagine anyone in the league trying to stay in front of mj’s first step, nevertheless a big, would be murder

jrue holiday is the only guy in the league at the moment who has a chance in hell and still things would go bad for him more often then not

mj could average 40 ppg in today’s league without even trying to go for it stat padding

[GrayGoat]

mj has equal foot speed and a huge wingspan with great hands, he would give kyrie fits while locking him down

imagine anyone in the league trying to stay in front of mj’s first step, nevertheless a big, would be murder

jrue holiday is the only guy in the league at the moment who has a chance in hell and still things would go bad for him more often then not

mj could average 40 ppg in today’s league without even trying to go for it stat padding

Log into your bigshotbob account and tell me that ya tweaker

[warriorfan]

Log into your bigshotbob account and tell me that ya tweaker

I can’t understand you try again when you grow over 6 feet tall

[outofstomach]

Yeah imagine MJ having to guard Kyrie instead of Hornacek. Stfu you idiot
if kobe locked up Kyrie on an iso, what do you think Jordan would do? :lol

[GrayGoat]

if kobe locked up Kyrie on an iso, what do you think Jordan would do? :lol
He would have Pippen guard him

[Vino24]

He would have Pippen guard him

https://media.tenor.com/4h0MsFsL5J0AAAAM/what-woah.gif

[Johnny32]

no difference. jordone was already defended by unathletic white guys most of his career. remember there were no long (6'6+) all nba caliber wing defenders in mj's day (other than his own teammate.) if anything these cats are an ungrade over 6 foot pasties.

[Baller789]

no difference. jordone was already defended by unathletic white guys most of his career. remember there were no long all nba caliber wing defenders in mj's day (other than his own teammate.) if anything these cats are an ungrade over 6 foot pasties.

You mean like Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Steve Smith, Mitch Richmond, and Clyde Drexler?

[Johnny32]

You mean like Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Steve Smith, Mitch Richmond, and Clyde Drexler?

literally 0 all nba defensive teams combined.

[nayte]

He would have Pippen guard him

:lol

[Baller789]

literally 0 all nba defensive teams combined.

Oh you mean like Anthony Mason, Eddie Jones, Derrick McKey and Dan Majerle?

[Johnny32]

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay
simmons

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones (rook in 96, only played 3 seasons vs mj)

imagine legoat in the 80s/90s vs horrific transition defense and no long all nba caliber wings in the halfcort. and then on the other end being able to body his opponent on defense. good lord.

[warriorfan]

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay
simmons

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones (rook in 96, only played 3 seasons vs mj)

imagine legoat in the 80s/90s vs horrific transition defense and no long all nba caliber wings in the halfcort. and then on the other end being able to body his opponent on defense. good lord.

quite an awful lot of western conference names there….how many of those guys did lebron regularly go up against?

[Johnny32]

quite an awful lot of western conference names there….how many of those guys did lebron regularly go up against?

funny you asked. here's a little fun fact for ya...

legoat faced more long (6'6+) all nba caliber wing defenders in the 2016 finals alone than mj faced in his 6 finals appearances combined.

leouchie.

[beau_boy04]

Mj would have averaged at least 40 ppg in todays nba. and if he wanted too at least 50 ppg isn't too far off from reality.

[TheMan]

You mean like Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Steve Smith, Mitch Richmond, and Clyde Drexler?

Don't bother, Johnny32 is a bitter ignorant POS

[TheGoatest]

He would have Pippen guard him

:roll: :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

How were Rodman, McCray, and Michael Cooper not wing defenders? Hell Cliff Robinson was a wing defender he was just tall. I’ve actually seen him guard both Jordan and Lebron. He was all D. Not that it matters anyway.

[999Guy]

mj has equal foot speed and a huge wingspan with great hands, he would give kyrie fits while locking him down

imagine anyone in the league trying to stay in front of mj’s first step, nevertheless a big, would be murder

jrue holiday is the only guy in the league at the moment who has a chance in hell and still things would go bad for him more often then not

mj could average 40 ppg in today’s league without even trying to go for it stat padding

MJ was not even close to disciplined enough to lock down Kyrie who has counter, hesitation, and deception after deception.


By the time MJ actually knew how to play defense(96 and beyond), his foot speed was somewhat cooked. He was however an actually good, well above average defender in the second three peat.

But that lightweight, gambling mess he was up until 93? And then by 92 his motor and athleticism was waning anyway but he still didn’t change his defensive habits?

Please.


When Jordan left the Bulls in 93 they got better defensively, and way worse offensively.


Everybody’s favorite version of Jordan would have a terrible time against the likes of Curry, Harden, Luka, Ja, KD, LeBron, etc.

All for different reasons too. His weaknesses overlap all their strengths in different ways.

When he faced Magic in 91, he tried to reach to his dribbling hand in the post time after time and Magic had him mentally figured out by the second attempt.

Just spinning off him and feasting. Jordan was literally dumb defensively in that particular series. Guys people assume he was better than defensively have never had that type of stupidity in their entire careers. Stupidity or desperation.

CP3 at 36 guarded Luka in the post better and most importantly smarter than Peak Jordan on Magic.

Pulling the chair, actually waiting on Luka to try a move and then anticipating it for better or worse as opposed to…..predictably and stupidly giving up positions for a reach.


But yeah, anyway, Jordan is getting lit up in this era from time to time. Probably more times than he used to. Is he also feasting possibly more than before? Of course. But it’s a binary game of diminishing returns.

[Johnny32]

How were Rodman, McCray, and Michael Cooper not wing defenders? Hell Cliff Robinson was a wing defender he was just tall. I’ve actually seen him guard both Jordan and Lebron. He was all D. Not that it matters anyway.

robinson was all def in the 00s not the 80s/90s. cooper is listed at 6'5 (he's really 6'3), not 6'6...so he doesn't make the cut. also i had mccray and rodman on my og list but took them off. mccray because i didn't think anyone would notice lol and rodman because he's not really going to be guarding a legit perimeter scorer on many possessions in an nba gm.

[Baller789]

Don't bother, Johnny32 is a bitter ignorant POS

He is isnt he.

[Johnny32]

He is isnt he.

just a lil fun fact...that obsessed chick has quoted me probably 50 times in a row without a response. but yeah, it's me who's weird lmao.

[Kblaze8855]

Cooper has always been 6’6 or 7 in my mind and I see the nba and basketball reference both say he’s 6’7”. If we are gonna delve into “real” heights that are suspected take Iggy, Klay, and Kobe off the modern list as well. I know for a fact Klay and Iggy were measured under 6’6” at the combine(barely) and I think Kobe was as well. I’m not 100% sure Jordan is 6’6” either. We can just stick to listed height to avoid all that.


McCray is just someone people who weren’t big fans back then don’t know but he was tough. I can see why you might try to pretend he didn’t exist to fool people…but I remember him.

Rodman guarded all kinds of wings. He guarded the best 1-2-3 of not only his era…arguably of all time. I grant that Magic is a bigger than usual point but he was definitely a wing. As was Jordan. Bird was a tweener but was a 3 when Rodman came along. He guarded the biggest 1, the quickest 2, and the most skilled/crafty 3. Safe to call him a wing defender at the time. He was an everyone defender. He could guard Jordan, Barkley, or Ewing.

And Robinson being all D team past his prime is if anything suggestive that it was harder to make when he was a better player in his youth. Who is more athletic at 35 than 24?


If your points require the people listening be ignorant of the subject matter maybe make better points.

[warriorfan]

MJ was not even close to disciplined enough to lock down Kyrie who has counter, hesitation, and deception after deception.


By the time MJ actually knew how to play defense(96 and beyond), his foot speed was somewhat cooked. He was however an actually good, well above average defender in the second three peat.

But that lightweight, gambling mess he was up until 93? And then by 92 his motor and athleticism was waning anyway but he still didn’t change his defensive habits?

Please.


When Jordan left the Bulls in 93 they got better defensively, and way worse offensively.


Everybody’s favorite version of Jordan would have a terrible time against the likes of Curry, Harden, Luka, Ja, KD, LeBron, etc.

All for different reasons too. His weaknesses overlap all their strengths in different ways.

When he faced Magic in 91, he tried to reach to his dribbling hand in the post time after time and Magic had him mentally figured out by the second attempt.

Just spinning off him and feasting. Jordan was literally dumb defensively in that particular series. Guys people assume he was better than defensively have never had that type of stupidity in their entire careers. Stupidity or desperation.

CP3 at 36 guarded Luka in the post better and most importantly smarter than Peak Jordan on Magic.

Pulling the chair, actually waiting on Luka to try a move and then anticipating it for better or worse as opposed to…..predictably and stupidly giving up positions for a reach.


But yeah, anyway, Jordan is getting lit up in this era from time to time. Probably more times than he used to. Is he also feasting possibly more than before? Of course. But it’s a binary game of diminishing returns.

low iq post

[Johnny32]

Cooper has always been 6’6 or 7 in my mind and I see the nba and basketball reference both say he’s 6’7”. McCray is just someone people who weren’t big fans back then don’t know but he was tough. I can see why you might try to pretend he didn’t exist to fool people…but I remember him.

Rodman guarded all kinds of wings. He guarded the best 1-2-3 of not only his era…arguably of all time. I grant that Magic is a bigger than usual point but he was definitely a wing. As was Jordan. Bird was a tweener but was a 3 when Rodman came along. He guarded the biggest 1, the quickest 2, and the most skilled/crafty 3. Safe to call him a wing defender at the time. He was an everyone defender. He could guard Jordan, Barkley, or Ewing.

And Robinson being all D team past his prime is if anything suggestive that it was harder to make when he was a better player in his youth. Who is more athletic at 35 than 24?

If your points require the people listening be ignorant of the subject matter maybe make better points.

there isn't currently a pg in the lg dennis rodman could successfully defend lol. not one. i don't even have dray on the other list for same reason lol. anyway, google has coop at 6'5. sry if that makes umad.

[Kblaze8855]

there isn't currently a pg in the lg dennis rodman could successfully defend lol. not one. i don't even have dray on the other list for same reason lol. anyway, google has coop at 6'5. sry if that makes umad.



So Dennis Rodman could guard peak athleticism Michael Jordan but he can’t defend Kyle Lowry?

You need to tone the stupidity of this new alt down.

[nineiron]

Yeah imagine MJ having to guard Kyrie instead of Hornacek. Stfu you idiot

MJ would put the CLAMPS on Kyrie and anyone else in this cupcake era

[nineiron]

So Dennis Rodman could guard peak athleticism Michael Jordan but he can’t defend Kyle Lowry?

You need to tone the stupidity of this new alt down.

you're asking the impossible

[Johnny32]

So Dennis Rodman could guard peak athleticism Michael Jordan but he can’t defend Kyle Lowry?

You need to tone the stupidity of this new alt down.

you seem desperate. a coach is never having rodman matched up on any wing scorer on a final possession. he's not a wing defender but he can stand in front of one on a switch, sure. i have no alts with any significant posts. prove me wrong? you can't.

[warriorfan]

just ban this guy

[Johnny32]

he's going to post a yt video of mj hitting a gw on rodman actually and fall right into my next trap.

[Kblaze8855]

On a switch? Rodman picked Jordan up at half court at times. He was still guarding some wings on the spurs when he was in his 30s. You know what?

This is exactly why I don’t read Jordan and Lebron topics. I’d ban all of you for being either trolls or too stupid to let you drag normal people into these conversations. Especially ones admitting they just flat out lie about lists they present as facts. Talking about he took someone off because he didn’t think anyone would notice…

Just flat making shit up and trolling nonstop.

I read like 10 more of these topics we are gonna lose 20 posters so let me just go on about my day. I have a fridge getting delivered anyway and I need to run the new water line behind the cabinets. Excuse me…

[TheGoatest]

just ban this guy

If this forum was banning anyone, they would've banned you for using the derogatory "C"-word for Asian people, or the guy who posted that Kyle Rittenhouse should shoot LeBron.
Instead they just casually deleted that particular post of yours and allowed you to carry on posting, because they apparently need the 50 cents of monthly ad revenues one daily visitor brings them, even if it's from a scumbag.
This forum used to be like Studio 54, where you had to wait months to get in.
But these days, they treat the equivalent of this:

https://www.designindaba.com/sites/default/files/node/news/22550/stockimage-1.jpg

Like this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/895981220332490752/pu/img/lG9ernaPacPFRSMJ.jpg

[ImKobe]

Bulls' defense would be even nastier in today's era. They could go small and switch all 5 without a problem, especially the 2nd 3-Peat team.

[Vino24]

You know warriorfan is reporting the shit out of people in here

[1987_Lakers]

Bulls' defense would be even nastier in today's era. They could go small and switch all 5 without a problem, especially the 2nd 3-Peat team.

Yea, but their shooting would be atrocious.

[Axe]

You know warriorfan is reporting the shit out of people in here
:oldlol:

[HoopsNY]

MJ was not even close to disciplined enough to lock down Kyrie who has counter, hesitation, and deception after deception.

By the time MJ actually knew how to play defense(96 and beyond), his foot speed was somewhat cooked. He was however an actually good, well above average defender in the second three peat.

This is pretty ignorant. Everyone knows MJ's defensive peak was '88-'93. It's when he not only won DPOY and consistent All-Defensive 1st Team selections, but was usually a DPOY vote getter.


But that lightweight, gambling mess he was up until 93? And then by 92 his motor and athleticism was waning anyway but he still didn’t change his defensive habits?

What are you talking about? This is absurd because you're acting like MJ never put the clamps down on a small guard. In the '93 finals, it was Phil who switched MJ onto KJ who was torching the Bulls in game 3. When he did that, Mike Fratello said, "Phil put the best defensive player in the game on KJ...", despite having guys like Rodman and Hakeem in the league.

If I'm not mistaken, KJ didn't score on MJ after that.

Not to mention, he was 2nd in DPOY voting, tied with David Robinson, ahead of guys like Pippen, Rodman, and Ewing in 1993.


When Jordan left the Bulls in 93 they got better defensively, and way worse offensively.

That's because guys like Armstrong, Pippen, and Grant entered their peaks, including their defensive peaks. Keep in mind, it was Grant who really emerged as a defensive force. Chicago had a 103 DRTG with Pippen and 104 without him. With Grant, they had a 102 DRTG but 106 without him. Without Grant, they were basically a 12th-13th rated defensive team, as opposed to being 7th without Pippen.


Everybody’s favorite version of Jordan would have a terrible time against the likes of Curry, Harden, Luka, Ja, KD, LeBron, etc.

All for different reasons too. His weaknesses overlap all their strengths in different ways.

Based on what exactly? First of all, very rarely would any great defensive player completely shut down an opposing great player. But to assume he would have a terrible time against any of those guys is just laughable.

Secondly, look at what Harden has done in the playoffs. Yet you think MJ would have a hell of a tough time? Steph put up 26 PPG on 43% (58% TS%) against a Cleveland backcourt in 2015 that included Matthew Dellavedova. In 2016, he put up 22 PPG on 40% (58% TS%) against a backcourt with Kyrie. Yet MJ would have a hell of a tough time?

I mean, yea, it's possible he does, but it's also very possible that he doesn't.

[3ba11]

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay
simmons

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones (rook in 96, only played 3 seasons vs mj)

imagine legoat in the 80s/90s vs horrific transition defense and no long all nba caliber wings in the halfcort. and then on the other end being able to body his opponent on defense. good lord.


Bad argument because it was a big man's league back then where perimeter players weren't recognized for defense against post-centric offenses.

Otoh, today's game doesn't use the post and most plays are perimeter-based, so perimeter defenders are recognized more

Ultimately, there were tons of 6'7" wing defenders like Stacey Augmon, Michael Finley, Jerome Kersey, Cliff Robinson and hundreds more - but it was a different game (big man's game) which meant that few perimeter players were recognized for defense.

Btw, the same argument that you use about perimeter players could be used for today's bigs - no rim protection - garbage defenders at the PF and center position compared to previous eras - open paint.. And the 80's and 90's saw the average height at 6'7" compared to 6'6" today

So you're wrong on many levels... :confusedshrug:

[Johnny32]

Bad argument because it was a big man's league back then where perimeter players weren't recognized for defense against post-centric offenses.

Otoh, today's game doesn't use the post and most plays are perimeter-based, so perimeter defenders are recognized more

Ultimately, there were tons of 6'7" wing defenders like Stacey Augmon, Michael Finley, Jerome Kersey, Cliff Robinson and hundreds more - but it was a different game (big man's game) which meant that few perimeter players were recognized for defense.

Btw, the same argument that you use about perimeter players could be used for today's bigs - no rim protection - garbage defenders at the PF and center position compared to previous eras - open paint.. And the 80's and 90's saw the average height at 6'7" compared to 6'6" today

So you're wrong on many levels... :confusedshrug:

your excuses don't matter. i've updated my lists because that one chick was crying about it.

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
rodney mccray
rodman
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones

[BigShotBob]

Yea, but their shooting would be atrocious.

No it wouldn't

[1987_Lakers]

No it wouldn't

Yes it would.

Good luck starting Harper, MJ, Pippen, & Rodman in today's NBA and expect teams to respect their 3 point shooting. Defenses would clog the **** out of that paint.

[1987_Lakers]

Harper: Career 29% 3 point shooter
MJ: 33%
Pippen: 33%
Rodman: Not a 3 point shooter
Longley: Not a 3 point shooter

"Their shooting wouldn't be bad" - Bigshot :oldlol:

[Airupthere]

Almost everyone is a 3 point shooter nowadays. Why is that? We evolved? They played with a different mentality playing in different rules. Give those dudes a chance to adapt, who knows.

[BigShotBob]

Yes it would.

Good luck starting Harper, MJ, Pippen, & Rodman in today's NBA and expect teams to respect their 3 point shooting. Defenses would clog the **** out of that paint.

You literally can't clog the paint now it's illegal stop trolling

[Kblaze8855]

I think it’s hard to say. You can’t just assume skills people didn’t show but…guys today do just suddenly pull 3 point range out of their asses. Nobody would assume Brook Lopez goes from post specialist to stretch big suddenly but he did. Nba players can almost all shoot and always could. We have footage of Wilt making multiple roughly 3 point hook shots just playing around. I watched Spencer Haywood and Connie Hawkins making back to back threes in the old timers game 15-20 years past their primes.

I don’t know what those guys would do if someone told them to play differently. Not like I haven’t seen Rodman make 2-3 threes in a game. One of the best shooting displays I saw in person was Tree Rollins who never shot in games. Ben Wallace was wet in pregames. Hell you can pull up Ben Simmons making 8-10 in a row pregame. It isn’t always an issue of ability. It’s play style and mentality.

I don’t know what they would do given an offseason to adjust. They wouldn’t likely shoot anywhere near modern volume of threes but working them into the offense instead of being a now and then thing to take advantage of someone daring you would change the numbers I’m sure. I doubt they play the triangle either. Be a whole different approach.

[BigShotBob]

Harper: Career 29% 3 point shooter
MJ: 33%
Pippen: 33%
Rodman: Not a 3 point shooter
Longley: Not a 3 point shooter

"Their shooting wouldn't be bad" - Bigshot :oldlol:

Literally intentionally leaves out Steve Kerr to troll some more

Harper, MJ, Pippen, Kucok, Kerr are more than serviceable enough

[1987_Lakers]

Literally intentionally leaves out Steve Kerr to troll some more

Harper, MJ, Pippen, Kucok, Kerr are more than serviceable enough

So having one 3 point shooter in today's league who only plays 20-25 mpg is good enough in today's league? God you are dumb.

[Kblaze8855]

So having one 3 point shooter in today's league who only plays 20-25 mpg is good enough in today's league? God you are dumb.



Good enough is hard to define here.

Good enough for what?

When you have Jordan and the rules won’t let you keep a hand on him one of the best transition attackers and all around players in Pippen….and guys who can switch everything?

I bet you’d see Kukoc as a point center vs some small lineups.

They would be a good team no matter what.

[BigShotBob]

So having one 3 point shooter in today's league who only plays 20-25 mpg is good enough in today's league? God you are dumb.

You keep trolling

How did the Heat make the ECF last year when they weren't a good 3pt shooting team?

[BigShotBob]

Good enough is hard to define here.

Good enough for what?

When you have Jordan and the rules won’t let you keep a hand on him one of the best transition attackers and all around players in Pippen….and guys who can switch everything?

I bet you’d see Kukoc as a point center vs some small lineups.

They would be a good team no matter what.

He's intentionally trolling because apparently the Miami Heat last year had better 3 point shooters than the Bulls lead by snipers like Bam, Butler, Gabe Vincent, Kyle Lowry, and Tyler Herro

[Kblaze8855]

Jimmy butler at 33.8 was their highest other than Robinson who played 12 minutes a game. I actually assumed it was better than that and they were pretty much the Celtics equals without having anything close to Jordan/Pippen.

[1987_Lakers]

You keep trolling

How did the Heat make the ECF last year when they weren't a good 3pt shooting team?

Yes, the team who finished #1 in 3 pt% didn't have 3 point shooters according to you.

[1987_Lakers]

Good enough is hard to define here.

Good enough for what?

When you have Jordan and the rules won’t let you keep a hand on him one of the best transition attackers and all around players in Pippen….and guys who can switch everything?

I bet you’d see Kukoc as a point center vs some small lineups.

They would be a good team no matter what.

Sure they would be a good team, possibly great. But by today's standards they would be a horrible shooting team.

[1987_Lakers]

Jimmy butler at 33.8 was their highest other than Robinson who played 12 minutes a game. I actually assumed it was better than that and they were pretty much the Celtics equals without having anything close to Jordan/Pippen.

PJ Tucker?

[BigShotBob]

Yes, the team who finished #1 in 3 pt% didn't have 3 point shooters according to you.

They werent number 1 in the playoffs try again

[Kblaze8855]

They shot 30% and played the Celtics even and best Philly shooting even worse.

Im fairly confident Jordan with that shooting around him in the playoffs could do better.

Granted…modern teams have better spacing than 90s teams even when they miss because teams honor their outside shooting either way.

[BigShotBob]

PJ Tucker?

:roll::roll::roll:

[Kblaze8855]

Ah yes Pj is down there. I didn’t get to him because I sorted by attempts and he was 8th on the team. He made 8 threes in 7 games vs Boston.

[1987_Lakers]

:roll::roll::roll:

What so funny? Tucker shot over 40% in the playoffs, not Butler. Simply correcting.

[1987_Lakers]

They werent number 1 in the playoffs try again

It's a small sample size. If you look at their rosters from top to bottom Miami has superior shooters than that '96 Bulls team. As shown how they led the NBA in 3pt%. It's not even a debate.

[warriorfan]

This guy doesn’t know ball.

[BigShotBob]

It's a small sample size. If you look at their rosters from top to bottom Miami has superior shooters than that '96 Bulls team. As shown how they led the NBA in 3pt%. It's not even a debate.

It's a relevant one. MJ and the Bulls would have the best record without being #1 in 3pt percentage and would run through the East because if the Heat could play the Celtics to a standstill while shooting 30% from 3 what would MJ and the Bulls do?

You got caught it's okay to admit that you didn't know how putrid Miami's 3pt shooting was and how they still pushed Boston to 7.

So now you have to say either MJ and the Bulls would lose to Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown who as a team shot 34% from 3 that series, or that Miami still somehow had better shooters that, when they couldn't perform, still made it to the ECF and pushed the ECF champs to 7.

It's over try again next time

[1987_Lakers]

It's a relevant one. MJ and the Bulls would have the best record without being #1 in 3pt percentage and would run through the East because if the Heat could play the Celtics to a standstill while shooting 30% from 3 what would MJ and the Bulls do?

You got caught it's okay to admit that you didn't know how putrid Miami's 3pt shooting was and how they still pushed Boston to 7.

So now you have to say either MJ and the Bulls would lose to Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown who as a team shot 34% from 3 that series, or that Miami still somehow had better shooters that, when they couldn't perform, still made it to the ECF and pushed the ECF champs to 7.

It's over try again next time

They very well could run threw the East just based on talent alone, but don't tell me the lack of shooters they have wouldn't be a major concern in today's league.

You got caught, you didn't realize Miami was the #1 shooting team in the NBA. And was stupid enough to believe teams today just look for one 3 point shooter like Kerr and move on to add other type of players.

It's over try again next time.

[Kblaze8855]

You know he knows teams today try to add more shooters than teams in the 90s. The issue is when led by incredible talent elsewhere and a versatile defense if it’s still enough to be a good team. And I’d say the answer is clearly “Yes”.

[BigShotBob]

They very well could run threw the East just based on talent alone, but don't tell me the lack of shooters they have wouldn't be a major concern in today's league.

You got caught, you didn't realize Miami was the #1 shooting team in the NBA. And was stupid enough to believe teams today just look for one 3 point shooter like Kerr and move on to add other type of players.

It's over try again next time.

Lol yea you're trolling 30% from 3 pushed the Celtics to 7 games it's over

[1987_Lakers]

You know he knows teams today try to add more shooters than teams in the 90s.

I don't know that. He thinks Pippen > LeBron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?480677-Is-there-an-argument-for-Pippen-being-better-than-Lebron

[1987_Lakers]

And who can forget his "Stick a fork in Giannis" thread.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?483825-Stick-a-fork-in-Giannis

[theman93]

They very well could run threw the East just based on talent alone, but don't tell me the lack of shooters they have wouldn't be a major concern in today's league.

You got caught, you didn't realize Miami was the #1 shooting team in the NBA. And was stupid enough to believe teams today just look for one 3 point shooter like Kerr and move on to add other type of players.

It's over try again next time.

What was the Bulls 3 point % in 1996?

[BigShotBob]

And who can forget his "Stick a fork in Giannis" thread.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?483825-Stick-a-fork-in-Giannis

His only championship came when their biggest test had 2 injured stars try again

[1987_Lakers]

What was the Bulls 3 point % in 1996?

You really counting a short 3 point line? How did they shoot when they moved the 3 to its original spot in 1998?

[ShawkFactory]

What was the Bulls 3 point % in 1996?

3pt shooting was up league-wide from 95-97

[theman93]

You really counting a short 3 point line? How did they shoot when they moved the 3 to its original spot in 1998?

Who says we're playing by today's rules? Why not 1996 or 1997? And if not the 1996 or 1997 Bulls then what about 1991 or 1993 Bulls?

[1987_Lakers]

Who says we're playing by today's rules? Why not 1996 or 1997? And if not the 1996 or 1997 Bulls then what about 1991 or 1993 Bulls?

Did you not see my post where I specifically said how their shooting would translate to "today's league"?

And LOL, nobody is playing under rules where they had a WNBA 3 point line.

[1987_Lakers]

His only championship came when their biggest test had 2 injured stars try again

Thanks for furthing making yourself look like a moron. Giannis is the best PF we have seen since Duncan (if you want to call him a PF) and you specifically said Giannis is "done'.

He only went on to win a title and have a historic closeout Finals game in the process and many today including myself think he's the best player currently.

[ShawkFactory]

His only championship came when their biggest test had 2 injured stars try again


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHPLeWsAQw4

[Kblaze8855]

The WNBA line is the same line fiba and I think the euroleague uses. The nba is the outlier. Wnba uses smaller balls though.

[BigShotBob]

Thanks for furthing making yourself look like a moron. Giannis is the best PF we have seen since Duncan (if you want to call him a PF) and you specifically said Giannis is "done'.

He only went on to win a title and have a historic closeout Finals game in the process and many today including myself think he's the best player currently.

I said that he was the best player after the championship too and I still think he's the best in the league now. My point was that he wasn't going to win anything with the way he played.

If the Nets were fully healthy he would have lost

[1987_Lakers]

I

If the Nets were fully healthy he would have lost

That's not how it works.

[theman93]

Did you not see my post where I specifically said how their shooting would translate to "today's league"?

And LOL, nobody is playing under rules where they had a WNBA 3 point line.

It would translate just fine. What about 1991 or 1993?

[theman93]

Looking at the last 5 ECF...

2018 ECF 3 point % - Cavs: 32% | Celtics: 31.3% (League average: 36.2%)
2019 ECF 3 pint % - Raptors: 37.4% | Bucks: 31% (League average: 35.5%)
2020 ECF 3 point % - Heat: 32.3% | Celtics: 34.1% (League average: 35.8%)
2021 ECF 3 point % - Bucks: 31.1% | Hawks: 33.8% (League average: 36.7%)
2022 ECF 3 point % - Celtics: 34.9% | Heat: 30% (League average: 35.4%)

Of the last 10 Eastern Conference finalists, only 1 (2019 Raptors) team was above league average in that series so shooting well from 3 isn't a necessity. Chicago's 3 point % translating to today's NBA isn't a concern.

[ShawkFactory]

Looking at the last 5 ECF...

2018 ECF 3 point % - Cavs: 32% | Celtics: 31.3% (League average: 36.2%)
2019 ECF 3 pint % - Raptors: 37.4% | Bucks: 31% (League average: 35.5%)
2020 ECF 3 point % - Heat: 32.3% | Celtics: 34.1% (League average: 35.8%)
2021 ECF 3 point % - Bucks: 31.1% | Hawks: 33.8% (League average: 36.7%)
2022 ECF 3 point % - Celtics: 34.9% | Heat: 30% (League average: 35.4%)

Of the last 10 Eastern Conference finalists, only 1 (2019 Raptors) team was above league average in that series so shooting well from 3 isn't a necessity. Chicago's 3 point % translating to today's NBA isn't a concern.

Are you referring to the playoff league average or regular season? Obviously shooting percentages are going to drop in the conference finals from the regular season. That's just the nature of basketball.

[theman93]

Are you referring to the playoff league average or regular season? Obviously shooting percentages are going to drop in the conference finals from the regular season. That's just the nature of basketball.

Yep, so for the 3 point shot specifically you can be average to below average to contend once you've made the playoffs. And I don't think anyone's objecting Chicago would make the playoffs. The 90's Bulls would translate just fine to today.

[ShawkFactory]

Yep, so for the 3 point shot specifically you can be average to below average to contend once you've made the playoffs. And I don't think anyone's objecting Chicago would make the playoffs. The 90's Bulls would translate just fine to today.

What I was asking is are those numbers on the ECF teams their RS numbers or their numbers from the ECF series specifically.

[theman93]

What I was asking is are those numbers on the ECF teams their RS numbers or their numbers from the ECF series specifically.

It’s each teams 3 point % from the ECF from the last 5 years with the league average for each respective year in parentheses.

[ShawkFactory]

It’s each teams 3 point % from the ECF from the last 5 years with the league average for each respective year in parentheses.

Okay, so you aren't accounting for the natural dip in shooting percentages in the conference finals when things are far more tightly contested than in the regular season.

[TheMan]

Yes it would.

Good luck starting Harper, MJ, Pippen, & Rodman in today's NBA and expect teams to respect their 3 point shooting. Defenses would clog the **** out of that paint.

They clogged the hell out of the paint back then and the Bulls did just fine...as if that's throwing them off if a modern team tries to utilize the same strategy they faced back then, lol. OTOH, modern teams don't have the classic shot blocking, pack the paint type of big men the 80s and 90s had, so it would actually be easier for MJ and Pip to attack the basket even if they pack it with 3pt shooting "bigs". It ain't the same packing the paint with a 6 feet 8 soft big man whose main reason he's on the court is for his 3 point shooting than a 6 feet 11 goon whose main objective is to block shots...

[theman93]

Okay, so you aren't accounting for the natural dip in shooting percentages in the conference finals when things are far more tightly contested than in the regular season.

That's exactly what I'm laying out. The dip in three point shooting percentages show that you don't have to be a particularly good 3 point shooting team in the playoffs in today's NBA to contend.

You're also assuming the trend of 3p% dropping in the playoffs (and even more specifically the ECF) stays true for Jordan's Bulls. But that's a fallacy. Let's look at Chicago's 3p% in their championship seasons without the shortened 3 point line.

1991 - Reg: 36.6% | Playoffs: 32.9% | ECF: 30.4%
1992 - Reg: 30.4% | Playoffs: 37.2% | ECF: 35.7%
1993 - Reg: 36.5% | Playoffs: 43.8% | ECF: 45.5%
1998 - Reg: 32.3% | Playoffs: 32.3% | ECF: 32.5%

1991 was the only season in which they shot worse from 3 in the playoffs as a whole and ECF in comparison to the regular season. Every other year they were either equal to, slightly better, or better. So your argument doesn't apply to the 90's Bulls.

[HoopsNY]

1987 is being dense for someone so intelligent. He knows very well that players and the league evolved. It's why the league shot 23% from three point range in 1983 and 10 years later was shooting ten percentage points higher.

Jerry West never played with a three point line. If he's playing post 1980, what would he "evolve" into? If you think he wouldn't be lighting it up or at least being an above average three point shooter, then you're just being stubborn.

Bird shot 31% from three his first 4-5 seasons, then evolved into a 40% three point shooter with increased volume.

Magic shot 19% for his first 8 seasons, then shot 34% his final 5 seasons.

Jordan shot 20% his first 5 seasons, then shot 34% from '90-'93. And in the playoffs he shot 37%. In the finals he shot 39%.

So Horford, Gasol, or Lopez didn't shoot threes, then became stretch bigs, but any players pre-2015 couldn't? How about Rondo? He started a 26% shooter the first half of his career. In the second half of his career, Rondo has shot 36%.

This is beyond ridiculous coming from an intelligent poster who can't seem to contextualize.