2009 Los Angeles Lakers vs 2012 Miami Heat

[Lebron23]

LeBron's first Finals MVP vs. Kobe's First Finals MVP

Who wins in a best of 7 series??


I think Miami beat the 2009 Lakers they were the better defensive team. and Wade was still putting up solid stats in the 2012 nba finals.

LeBron was also the Kryptonite of Kobe's team. The best Kobe Stopper. 16-6 vs. Team Kobe.

[dankok8]

It could go either way. I think the Lakers' bigs would really dominate down low and on the boards. The Heat playing softie Bosh and Joel Anthony in the frontcourt, they would have a hard time. The Lakers were a 65-17 +7.11 SRS team in other words they were really good! Assuming Lakers have home court, I would go LA in 7.

[Lebron23]

It could go either way. I think the Lakers' bigs would really dominate down low and on the boards. The Heat playing softie Bosh and Joel Anthony in the frontcourt, they would have a hard time. The Lakers were a 65-17 +7.11 SRS team in other words they were really good! Assuming Lakers have home court, I would go LA in 7.

Lebron always outplayed Kobe in their head to head matchup. The Heat won 65 games in 2013. I think if no NBA lockout they were capable of winning 67 wins in 2012. They had the hunger and motivation

[warriorfan]

2012 heat beat a bunch of 22 and 23 year old low ball iq chokers during a lockout season

Lakers would eat them for breakfast. LA in 5

[fantasy]

Phil Jackson might be the key coach here, he would school Spoelstra. Although Miami has an advantage, Lebron.

[warriorfan]

Phil Jackson might be the key coach here, he would school Spoelstra. Although Miami has an advantage, Lebron.

lebron was a complete finals failure until that year. it took him being 27 years old with 8 seasons and two previous Final appearances before he was able to muster up to not being a finals choker. he was finally able to do it by crushing a team where their 3 best players were 22 and 23 years old, in their first finals, a fraction of the experience which lebron had at that point. when lebron was at their stage of development he was absolutely bombing the finals in 2007 and even when had more experience than them in 2011. If he went against a team of savvy vets he would get punked once again.


once again. bron had 7 year pro experience and was 26 year old with a previous finals experience under his belt and was still shitting the bed hard with the literal greatest choke of all time.

that’s why it’s not impressive that he was able to beat a team who when they had similar experience to lebron, he shit himself. even when he had wade who was already a certified finals stud at that point.

lakers in 5

[dankok8]

Lebron always outplayed Kobe in their head to head matchup. The Heat won 65 games in 2013. I think if no NBA lockout they were capable of winning 67 wins in 2012. They had the hunger and motivation

It's a team game. Lebron may well outplay Kobe, even by a lot, and his team still comes out losing. The 2009 Lakers would be the best team that the 2012 Heat would see in those playoffs and a bad matchup IMO because of their frontcourt.

The Heat went 46-20 in 2012 which is 57-win pace and had a just decent 5.72 SRS. 67 wins isn't realistic at all. The 2013 Heat were much better but they had Ray Allen and Birdman replacing Joel Anthony. Then again, Wade was hurt in the playoffs in 2013 and clearly limited so all things considered I may not even have the 2013 Heat over the 2012 Heat.

Anyways Lebron was fantastic in the 2012 postseason. For me it's his best playoff run but one man isn't always enough to win.

[fantasy]

I WOULD argue 2009 Lakers might have not won if Kevin Garnett did not get injured.

[SouBeachTalents]

2012 heat beat a bunch of 22 and 23 year old low ball iq chokers during a lockout season

Lakers would eat them for breakfast. LA in 5
Those 22 & 23 year old kids swept the defending champs, beat the Lakers in 5, then backdoor swept the Spurs who were on a 20 game winning streak. They went up against 3 teams that had significantly more experience than them and dropped just 3 games along the way.

[warriorfan]

Those 22 & 23 year old kids swept the defending champs, beat the Lakers in 5, then backdoor swept the Spurs who were on a 20 game winning streak. They went up against 3 teams that had significantly more experience than them and dropped just 3 games along the way.

finals are different

lebron did the same thing, he crushed the pistons in the ecf, fell flat on his face in the finals

then second time around even at age 26 LeBron crushed the bulls in the ecf, followed it up by the greatest choke of all time

the lights shined too bright, he clamped up, he wasn’t ready

this is what happenes to a supposed top 10 player of all time?

he wasn’t ready, and neither were the 22 and 23 year old, first Finals appearance core of the thunder

[ShawkFactory]

finals are different

lebron did the same thing, he crushed the pistons in the ecf, fell flat on his face in the finals

then second time around even at age 26 LeBron crushed the bulls in the ecf, followed it up by the greatest choke of all time

the lights shined too bright, he clamped up, he wasn’t ready

this is what happenes to a supposed top 10 player of all time?

he wasn’t ready, and neither were the 22 and 23 year old, first Finals appearance core of the thunder

This is a nice little theory and everything, but that’s solely what it is.

KD and Westbrook both played well in the finals.

[RRR3]

This is a nice little theory and everything, but that’s solely what it is.

KD and Westbrook both played well in the finals.
Also Curry fans really should know better than to talk about finals performances. Last year was the first time Steph didn't choke :lol

[warriorfan]

This is a nice little theory and everything, but that’s solely what it is.

KD and Westbrook both played well in the finals.

they played better than LeBron in his first two finals, but they still came up short in clutch situations. If LeBron shit the bed in his first two Finals and he’s a supposed top 10 player, then it’s obvious that lesser players will have similar struggles….unless you want to argue LeBron is a lesser all time player then KD and Westbrook. I would be open to hearing that one out if you would like.

The fact of the matter in the entire 76 year old history of the NBA, no teams have won with a core of 22 and 23 year old players being their best players. It doesn’t happen. Players and teams need to gain experience before going all the way. It happens to everyone. It happened to LeBron, not once but twice. Actually it took him two Finals appearances and 8 years in the league at age 27 to put together a decent Finals run.

This just shows that the lockout win in 2012 vs a 22 and 23 year old core was nothing special at all and they would have gotten whooped by the 2009 Los Angels Lakers who had Kobe with many years of Finals experience under his belt.

[fantasy]

they played better than LeBron in his first two finals, but they still came up short in clutch situations. If LeBron shit the bed in his first two Finals and he’s a supposed top 10 player, then it’s obvious that lesser players will have similar struggles….unless you want to argue LeBron is a lesser all time player then KD and Westbrook. I would be open to hearing that one out if you would like.

The fact of the matter in the entire 76 year old history of the NBA, no teams have won with a core of 22 and 23 year old players being their best players. It doesn’t happen. Players and teams need to gain experience before going all the way. It happens to everyone. It happened to LeBron, not once but twice. Actually it took him two Finals appearances and 8 years in the league at age 27 to put together a decent Finals run.

This just shows that the lockout win in 2012 vs a 22 and 23 year old core was nothing special at all and they would have gotten whooped by the 2009 Los Angels Lakers who had Kobe with many years of Finals experience under his belt.


It does happen.Magic Johnson was 20 years old when he won finals mvp.

[warriorfan]

It does happen.Magic Johnson was 20 years old when he won finals mvp.

who else was on his team?

:roll:

try again

[ShawkFactory]

they played better than LeBron in his first two finals, but they still came up short in clutch situations. If LeBron shit the bed in his first two Finals and he’s a supposed top 10 player, then it’s obvious that lesser players will have similar struggles….unless you want to argue LeBron is a lesser all time player then KD and Westbrook. I would be open to hearing that one out if you would like.

The fact of the matter in the entire 76 year old history of the NBA, no teams have won with a core of 22 and 23 year old players being their best players. It doesn’t happen. Players and teams need to gain experience before going all the way. It happens to everyone. It happened to LeBron, not once but twice. Actually it took him two Finals appearances and 8 years in the league at age 27 to put together a decent Finals run.

This just shows that the lockout win in 2012 vs a 22 and 23 year old core was nothing special at all and they would have gotten whooped by the 2009 Los Angels Lakers who had Kobe with many years of Finals experience under his belt.

I appreciate the effort and all, but you’re making correlations that simply aren’t there. What Lebron and the Cavs did in 2007 against the Spurs has nothing to do with the 2012 finals. And let’s actually be honest...nor did the lockout.

As previously mentioned, they swept the defending champs and backdoor swept and dominated the Spurs. Nobody watching that series commented on how the Thunder were choking or how the stage was too big for them..because as also mentioned, KD and Westbrook both played very well. Hell they came out and borderline ran away with game 1. From that point they were just simply outclassed by a better team.

But discussing the 2012 Thunder doesn’t really do much for a Heat matchup with the Lakers anyway

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron's first Finals MVP vs. Kobe's First Finals MVP

Who wins in a best of 7 series??


I think Miami beat the 2009 Lakers they were the better defensive team. and Wade was still putting up solid stats in the 2012 nba finals.

LeBron was also the Kryptonite of Kobe's team. The best Kobe Stopper. 16-6 vs. Team Kobe.

Lakers because Kobe outplays Lebron normally.

[SouBeachTalents]

I appreciate the effort and all, but you’re making correlations that simply aren’t there. What Lebron and the Cavs did in 2007 against the Spurs has nothing to do with the 2012 finals. And let’s actually be honest...nor did the lockout.

As previously mentioned, they swept the defending champs and backdoor swept and dominated the Spurs. Nobody watching that series commented on how the Thunder were choking or how the stage was too big for them..because as also mentioned, KD and Westbrook both played very well. Hell they came out and borderline ran away with game 1. From that point they were just simply outclassed by a better team.

But discussing the 2012 Thunder doesn’t really do much for a Heat matchup with the Lakers anyway
And let’s be real, Games 2-4 all came down to the wire. It was honestly almost a fluke the series didn’t go at least 6 games and make it back to OKC, where they hadn’t even lost until the Finals.

[warriorfan]

I appreciate the effort and all, but you’re making correlations that simply aren’t there. What Lebron and the Cavs did in 2007 against the Spurs has nothing to do with the 2012 finals. And let’s actually be honest...nor did the lockout.

As previously mentioned, they swept the defending champs and backdoor swept and dominated the Spurs. Nobody watching that series commented on how the Thunder were choking or how the stage was too big for them..because as also mentioned, KD and Westbrook both played very well. Hell they came out and borderline ran away with game 1. From that point they were just simply outclassed by a better team.

But discussing the 2012 Thunder doesn’t really do much for a Heat matchup with the Lakers anyway

so you are saying westbrook and kd played much better in their first finals at ages 22 and 23 then lebron did in not only his first, but his second finals as well, when he had much more experience, also while LeBron left to make a super team with the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league?


Interesting.

[ShawkFactory]

so you are saying westbrook and kd played much better in their first finals at ages 22 and 23 then lebron did in not only his first, but his second finals as well, when he had much more experience, also while LeBron left to make a super team with the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league?


Interesting.

That is not what I’m saying.

But if that’s the conclusion you want to draw then knock yourself out I guess.

[warriorfan]

That is not what I’m saying.

But if that’s the conclusion you want to draw then knock yourself out I guess.

lol

[Overdrive]

so you are saying westbrook and kd played much better in their first finals at ages 22 and 23 then lebron did in not only his first, but his second finals as well, when he had much more experience, also while LeBron left to make a super team with the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league?


Interesting.

Is your weird logic supposed to be some gotcha on Lebron? Yeah, KD played better than 2007 and 2011 finals Lebron. Now what?

How can you take that the '09 Lakers would've won from that? There's absolutely no corelation.

[Axe]

Lakers because Kobe outplays Lebron normally.
Dumb. Yet somehow the latter managed to have a winning record against the former in their h2h matchups before.

[Lebron23]

Lakers because Kobe outplays Lebron normally.

LeBron is 16-6 against Kobe

[Wally450]

2012 heat beat a bunch of 22 and 23 year old low ball iq chokers during a lockout season

Lakers would eat them for breakfast. LA in 5

I actually agree with this. The old Celtics took that Heat team to 7 in 2012. 2009 was probably the best version of Kobe in the Finals. Pau had his coming out party, they were getting good production from Fisher, Odom and company.

2009 Lakers in 5, maybe 6.

[Micku]

It could go either way. I think the Lakers' bigs would really dominate down low and on the boards. The Heat playing softie Bosh and Joel Anthony in the frontcourt, they would have a hard time. The Lakers were a 65-17 +7.11 SRS team in other words they were really good! Assuming Lakers have home court, I would go LA in 7.

Yup, I agree. It could go either way, but the Lakers bigs would give the Heat serious problems.

Wade at the time took a step back, but was injured in the playoffs again, but not as bad as 2013 Wade. But assuming they are all healthy, the Heat did have the perimeter defense and the shooters around them. Battier, Wade, LeBron would things hard on the Lakers perimeter players. They played really hard on the pick and rolls, and Chris Bosh was excellent at hedging. But sometimes he hedges too aggressively. But the Lakers don't do picks like that all the time. The triangle may give the Heat problems through a series. And again, assuming they are all healthy, Bynum + Gasol would be brutal for the Heat.

It would be a fun series no doubt. The Heat talent edges it out, but the Lakers bigs may punish them big time. More so than how the Pacers did against the 2013 Heat, which I think was a better team than the 2012 Heat, especially healthy. Wade and LeBron would have to have a crazy series for them to win or their shooters be on point, and how well they can contain Kobe.

I think the Lakers would win this if they had homecourt advantage. But it would be tough. Going seven.

[Micku]

I actually agree with this. The old Celtics took that Heat team to 7 in 2012. 2009 was probably the best version of Kobe in the Finals. Pau had his coming out party, they were getting good production from Fisher, Odom and company.

2009 Lakers in 5, maybe 6.

2012 Heat was dealing with injuries, which is why it went to seven games anyway imo. Bosh didn't even play till game 5 and had to come off the bench. Wade knee was busted, but he still contributed more that year than 2013 when he got hurt again. It was just in 2013, they had a better team around them.

But 2009 Lakers are no joke. I think that was their best team during the Gaosl-Kobe run. Their frontline is the Heat's weakness. The Heat could beat them with their talent and they had solid perimeter defenders to defend Kobe with. But Wade and LeBron would have to go off. They had solid shooters too to spread the floor, but they had to be mindful. The Heat was one of those teams playing small ball before it got really popular, and they were doing it out of necessity. The Lakers were more equipped to punish that than any team during the Heat's run. And Heat's 3pt shooting wasn't as good as the 2013 heat team, and they at least had Birdman for a big body down there.

The big 3 would have to show up more for the Lakers 09.

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron is 16-6 against Kobe

Maybe in regular season but not on highest stage where Kobe destroys Lebron. Lebron lost with HCA to Dwight Howard and then Pierce, while Kobe beat Dwight Howard and Pierce with it.

[TheGoatest]

LeBron is 16-6 against Kobe

Combine that with the fact that 27 year-old LeBron doesn't blow 3-1 leads in the playoffs like 27 year-old Kobe, and it's a wrap.

[warriorfan]

Maybe in regular season but not on highest stage where Kobe destroys Lebron. Lebron lost with HCA to Dwight Howard and then Pierce, while Kobe beat Dwight Howard and Pierce with it.

yeah, in the finals before this he literally goat choked and got outscored by jason terry while terry played 67 less minutes. this is even with 7 years of experience at age 26 with a finals under his belt and colluding to make a super team with a guy who is a cold clutch killer and had one of the greatest finals ever his first time around at age 24. just imagine what kobe would do to him


Combine that with the fact that 27 year-old LeBron doesn't blow 3-1 leads in the playoffs like 27 year-old Kobe, and it's a wrap.

we are talking about 2009 lakers smart guy. lol

[1987_Lakers]

A Curry fan talking about Finals chokes, lol.

[warriorfan]

nice job trying to redirect because you have zero counter points

low iq midget meltdown

[1987_Lakers]

nice job trying to redirect because you have zero counter points

low iq midget meltdown

What counter point is that? That "Kobe would destroy LeBron"? Based on what? Kobe got swept and played like shit vs that same Mavs team, he was overall a worse postseason & Finals performer than LeBron. There is no need to counter point because you argue like a kid.

[ShawkFactory]

nice job trying to redirect because you have zero counter points

low iq midget meltdown

You did the exact same thing like 3 posts ago :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Yup, I agree. It could go either way, but the Lakers bigs would give the Heat serious problems.

Wade at the time took a step back, but was injured in the playoffs again, but not as bad as 2013 Wade. But assuming they are all healthy, the Heat did have the perimeter defense and the shooters around them. Battier, Wade, LeBron would things hard on the Lakers perimeter players. They played really hard on the pick and rolls, and Chris Bosh was excellent at hedging. But sometimes he hedges too aggressively. But the Lakers don't do picks like that all the time. The triangle may give the Heat problems through a series. And again, assuming they are all healthy, Bynum + Gasol would be brutal for the Heat.

It would be a fun series no doubt. The Heat talent edges it out, but the Lakers bigs may punish them big time. More so than how the Pacers did against the 2013 Heat, which I think was a better team than the 2012 Heat, especially healthy. Wade and LeBron would have to have a crazy series for them to win or their shooters be on point, and how well they can contain Kobe.

I think the Lakers would win this if they had homecourt advantage. But it would be tough. Going seven.

Now this is a good, well thought out post. Someone who understands that it's a team game and not just LeBron vs Kobe.

The Lakers size in those years was fun to see, it seemed like everytime Gasol-Odom-Kobe were on the court, they were just overwhelming teams. Lakers bigs brought alot of versatility to the table.

I think the '09 Lakers beat the '12 Heat in a close series, but probably lose to a '13 Heat team if everyone is healthy.

[warriorfan]

You did the exact same thing like 3 posts ago :lol

I didn’t re direct i just laughed and ignored you because it was retardation

[1987_Lakers]

I didn’t re direct i just laughed and ignored you because it was retardation

Kinda like I did with you.

[warriorfan]

Kinda like I did with you.

no you tried to re direct the topic at hand because you are low iq and short lol

[1987_Lakers]

no you tried to re direct the topic at hand because you are low iq and short lol

Damn, still melting down about 2016, lol.

[warriorfan]

Damn, still melting down about 2016, lol.

still melting down about 2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018? lol nice manlet rage you got going on there

[ShawkFactory]

I didn’t re direct i just laughed and ignored you because it was retardation

That's exactly what you did :lol

[TheGoatest]

we are talking about 2009 lakers smart guy. lol

We're also talking about the 2012 Heat, moron. :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

That's exactly what you did :lol

re directing would be talking about how the hawks haven’t won’t shit ever or something. I don’t think you would even care because I can count on one hand the amount of times you have discussed them. but that’s besides the point


We're also talking about the 2012 Heat, moron. :oldlol:

Yes. And I was building context on how before 2012 lebron choked hard in every final he played in. he cut his teeth by beating a team of 22 and 23 inexperienced chokers. he wouldn’t have that luxury when facing the 2009 Lakers.


lebron stan’s are so low iq it’s legitimately concerning

[ShawkFactory]

re directing would be talking about how the hawks haven’t won’t shit ever or something. I don’t think you would even care because I can count on one hand the amount of times you have discussed them. but that’s besides the point



Yes, that would also be a case of redirecting.

[TheGoatest]

re directing would be talking about how the hawks haven’t won’t shit ever or something. I don’t think you would even care because I can count on one hand the amount of times you have discussed them. but that’s besides the point



Yes. And I was building context on how before 2012 lebron choked hard in every final he played in. he cut his teeth by beating a team of 22 and 23 inexperienced chokers. he wouldn’t have that luxury when facing the 2009 Lakers.


You were building context on how LeBron didn't have peak Shaq on his team when he was in the finals. :oldlol: And how LeBron played better even in his worst finals than Kobe's 15.6 on .367 suckage from the 2000 finals.




lebron stan’s are so low iq it’s legitimately concerning

The least you can do is check your grammar before bringing up IQ. :roll:

[warriorfan]

You were building context on how LeBron didn't have peak Shaq on his team when he was in the finals. :oldlol: And how LeBron played better even in his worst finals than Kobe's 15.6 on .367 suckage from the 2000 finals.



The least you can do is check your grammar before bringing up IQ. :roll:

Kobe was in his first finals and even younger then lebron during his first choke. Shows my point how first time young players struggle in the Finals. Making LeBron’s 2012 lock out win not impressive at all.

Plus it was in a much tougher defensive climate before no hand check and freedom of movement type play.

Plus he was injured

Plus it isn’t relevant because we are talking about Kobe from 2009 where he was already an experienced Finals performer.

Nice one :lol