35/7/7 = "just a scorer" (aka MJ).... 17/7/7 = "all-round player" (aka Pippen)

[3ba11]

I've literally heard the mainstream media say that Draymond's 7/7/7 stat line is great "all-round play" but the same people say Jordan is "just a scorer" (35/7/7 in the 85-93' Playoffs... 34/7/7 in 91-93' Playoffs... 36/7/8 in 91-93' Finals).

So carry on listening to faulty thinking by the media... :rolleyes:

[ShawkFactory]

No non-troll has ever said MJ is “just a scorer”. He’s widely recognized as the GOAT, widely recognized as one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever, greatest dunkers ever, and is consistently praised for having no weakness in his game,

Seems like you’re taking after MJ himself and inventing things that other people said so that you can talk and repeat yourself.

[3ba11]

No non-troll has ever said MJ is “just a scorer”. He’s widely recognized as the GOAT, widely recognized as one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever, greatest dunkers ever, and is consistently praised for having no weakness in his game,

Seems like you’re taking after MJ himself and inventing things that other people said so that you can talk and repeat yourself.


You guys say that Jordan needed Pippen to pass when Pippen was just a 5 apg player that wasn't capable of elite assists and couldn't break down defenders in the halfcourt - Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen and so did Wade, Kyrie, Westbrook and Rondo, so Lebron needed better assist guys than Jordan.. The reality is that everyone had more passing help than Jordan because Terry Porter, Stockton, Payton and KJ were all far superior passers and infact all-time floor generals... So if Pippen's trash passing helped Jordan than think what those guys would've done

[zeerghit]

any updates on your top 10? just curious

[3ba11]

any updates on your top 10? just curious


Well I realized that I would never get any credibility if I didn't include centers in my top 10 so I put them back in - it turned out nicely because my top 10 reflects an order of player-types based on how much help they generally need to win... Expert jumpshooters foster the best teammate development, chemistry and brand of ball, so they need the least help and rank at the top . Centers are next and ball-dominators need the most help..

Based on that (expert jumpshooters > centers > ball-dominators), my top 10 is MJ, Kobe, Bird, Russell, Curry, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Lebron, Durant, Hakeem

And yes, Durant is an expert jumpshooter but Lebron's "decision" stole his organic chip with Westbrook in 2012 and basically ruined his career.. So the colluders are all together (Magic, Lebron, KD).. And Hakeem's rings were always a bit tainted although his peak could conceivably put him over Duncan

[beau_boy04]

MJ is simply the best in so many categories

Greatest Player of all-time
Greatest Player in NBA History
Greatest SG of all-time
Top 3 SG Def of all-time
Top 20 Greatest Defenders of all-time
Greatest Peak of all-time

Plain and simple.

[Ne 1]

You guys say that Jordan needed Pippen to pass when Pippen was just a 5 apg player that wasn't capable of elite assists and couldn't break down defenders in the halfcourt - Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen and so did Wade, Kyrie, Westbrook and Rondo, so Lebron needed better assist guys than Jordan.. The reality is that everyone had more passing help than Jordan because Terry Porter, Stockton, Payton and KJ were all far superior passers and infact all-time floor generals... So if Pippen's trash passing helped Jordan than think what those guys would've done

Pippen was the playmaker of that team. Are you really going to deny that? And they tried putting MJ on point before. They kept losing. Pippen was a better playmaker, so they gave him that role. Playmaking goes beyond assists, especially since they ran the triangle.

[Axe]

No pip?

[kawhileonard2]

No pip?

He never won league mvp or finals mvp or DPOY whereas Lebron played with Ben Wallace, Shaq, Wade, Dwight Howard, Russell Westbrook and still doesn't have more titles than Curry and he even missed the playoffs with prime Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony.

[Axe]

No chip. :pimp:

[Shooter]

Say less

https://i.postimg.cc/FK2gV4Cw/Daddy-Pip-Carries-MJ.png

[ImKobe]

Say less

https://i.postimg.cc/FK2gV4Cw/Daddy-Pip-Carries-MJ.png

The gap in most of these categories (outside of scoring) is relatively small lmfao.. It's insane how big of a scoring load MJ had to carry while also doing all the things people give Pippen credit for..

[3ba11]

Pippen was the playmaker of that team. Are you really going to deny that? And they tried putting MJ on point before. They kept losing. Pippen was a better playmaker, so they gave him that role. Playmaking goes beyond assists, especially since they ran the triangle.


Pippen averaged less assists than Jordan for their Finals career, playoff career and regular season career

Jordan led the Bulls in assists for most playoff runs.. And if the Bulls needed elite assists, ONLY Jordan could provide because Pippen couldn't break his man down in the halfcourt or average more than 5-7 apg ..

Accordingly, Jordan averaged 11 apg in the 91' Finals and taught Pippen how to pass with his famous 30/9/11 stretch at point guard in 89' over 25 games (including a stretch of 10 triple-doubles in 11 games.. The media said he was already a better point guard than Magic during that stretch.. Otoh Pippen couldn't play point guard and average elite assists like Jordan did.. Pippen couldn't get more than 5-7 apg

[Ne 1]

Pippen averaged less assists than Jordan for their Finals career, playoff career and regular season career

Jordan led the Bulls in assists for most playoff runs.. And if the Bulls needed elite assists, ONLY Jordan could provide because Pippen couldn't break his man down in the halfcourt or average more than 5-7 apg ..

Accordingly, Jordan averaged 11 apg in the 91' Finals and taught Pippen how to pass with his famous 30/9/11 stretch at point guard in 89' over 25 games (including a stretch of 10 triple-doubles in 11 games.. The media said he was already a better point guard than Magic during that stretch.. Otoh Pippen couldn't play point guard and average elite assists like Jordan did.. Pippen couldn't get more than 5-7 apg

Yet Pippen was the primary facilitator/playmaker. There is more to playmaking than dishing out an assist. He was the one putting the ball where in needs to be. You might want to check how the triangle offense works.

[3ba11]

Yet Pippen was the primary facilitator/playmaker. There is more to playmaking than dishing out an assist. He was the one putting the ball where in needs to be. You might want to check how the triangle offense works.

Nope

The offense ran through Jordan

You're just regurgitating the media's false narratives

Jordan directed players on the court including Pippen - Jordan was the only one barking orders - he was the real coach not Phil, according to the mainstream media (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nFK_q4swYNs&t=20m23s)..

Pippen was a low-producer and often inept scorer (carried in every series), so the media exaggerates his other attributes like passing and defense... I bet you think Pippen was the primary defender on Magic in the 91' Finals - it's among the biggest lies in sports history

[Ne 1]

Nope

The offense ran through Jordan

You're just regurgitating the media's false narratives

Jordan directed players on the court including Pippen - Jordan was the only one barking orders - he was the real coach not Phil, according to the mainstream media (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nFK_q4swYNs&t=20m23s)..

Pippen was a low-producer and often inept scorer (carried in every series), so the media exaggerates his other attributes like passing and defense... I bet you think Pippen was the primary defender on Magic in the 91' Finals - it's among the biggest lies in sports history


Nope

The offense ran through Jordan

You're just regurgitating the media's false narratives

Jordan directed players on the court including Pippen - Jordan was the only one barking orders - he was the real coach not Phil, according to the mainstream media (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nFK_q4swYNs&t=20m23s)..

Pippen was a low-producer and often inept scorer (carried in every series), so the media exaggerates his other attributes like passing and defense... I bet you think Pippen was the primary defender on Magic in the 91' Finals - it's among the biggest lies in sports history

MJ’s ‘89 stretch had nothing to do with Pippens passing and they lost more of those games than they won because MJ isn't a natural facilitator, he passes because sometimes he just had to within the flow of the game same as literally any guard with a usage rate like his. The YouTube clip you posted talks about MJ’s leadership abilities, which I don’t deny. Playmaking/facilitating is a completely different thing. Just watch a couple of complete Bulls games in the ‘90s. It’s impossible not to see who is setting the plays and orchestrating the offense.

[Hey Yo]

Jordan was the real coach, yet refused to play for anyone but Phil.


:oldlol:

[3ba11]

MJ’s ‘89 stretch had nothing to do with Pippens passing and they lost more of those games than they won because MJ isn't a natural facilitator, he passes because sometimes he just had to within the flow of the game same as literally any guard with a usage rate like his. The YouTube clip you posted talks about MJ’s leadership abilities, which I don’t deny. Playmaking/facilitating is a completely different thing. Just watch a couple of complete Bulls games in the ‘90s. It’s impossible not to see who is setting the plays and orchestrating the offense.


The 89' Bulls were barely a .500 team because sophomore Pippen averaged 14/6/3 with westbrick efficiency.. So Jordan's .500 record during the 25-game stretch at point guard nearly matched the team's overall win rate despite being ravaged by injuries (that's why MJ moved to PG in the first place) and facing the toughest part of the schedule where opponents averaged 45 wins (above league average).

So contrary to your assertion that Jordan was a bad point guard during this stretch, he was infact considered the best point guard in the league after his first 16 games ever playing the position, at 26 years old - that's goat talent (source here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-24-2022/bPfHoS.gif), here (https://ballislife.com/michael-jordan-could-of-been-the-best-point-guard-ever-want-proof/), here (https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/why-michael-jordan-shouldve-been-point-guard-according-don-nelson), and here (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/3/11/21174817/michael-jordan-triple-doubles-1989-chicago-bulls))..

Again, the Bulls were .500 during the PG stretch because they were injured (that's wby Jordan moved to PG) and the Bulls were only a 47 win. 6 seed anyway because Pippen was bad and had zero ability in tight games.. Pippen is also the reason they lost the 89' ECF (9 on 40%)... Infact, his poor play was the reason that ANY sereis was close or lost, such has the 88' ECSF, 89' ECF, 90' ECF, 92' ECSF, 94' ECSF, 95' ECSF, 96' Finals, 97' Finals, 98' ECF, 98' Finals... He averaged 16 on 40% or worse in nearly all of these series.. Meanwhile, Jordan was averaging 30/9/11 during the PG stretch and 35/7/7 in the 85-93' Playoffs - Jordan averaged more assists than Lebron for the first 9 years of their playoff careers (85-93' vs 06-14') until Curry's pace-and-space era made offense easier for everyone.. Bill Simmons and Spotify did a feature on Jordan's goat-level stint at point guard and how it foreshadowed the modern NBA (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/3/11/21174817/michael-jordan-triple-doubles-1989-chicago-bulls).

So no... MJ was just carrying bums.. If you're going to praise Pippen's meager 5 apg, then what about the 10 apg from every other 90's sidekick like Payton, Stockton, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Penny - these are all-time floor generals while Pippen could barely average 5 apg and never achieved elite apg.. So you guys are just lying about Pippen - false narratives that came from the Lebron camp (Klutch Sports).. Even Terry Porter was a far superior playmaker than Pippen.. Porter had 6 three-point attempts at 53% in the 92' WCF to carry the Blazers to the Finals (26/4/8)... Every 90's sidekick was infact a "1b" with elite production capability, except Pippen - Pippen was the only sidekick that wasn't a go-to player and was more of a transition/hustle player with the lowest peak capability of any sidekick (no gameplanning required (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif)), so ONLY MJ had to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load) in every series and title run of his career.

[Full Court]

Only low-IQ idiots (i.e. Bronies) say that Jordan was just a scorer.

[Shooter]

https://i.postimg.cc/FK2gV4Cw/Daddy-Pip-Carries-MJ.png

OP? We done now? :pimp:

[outofstomach]

No non-troll has ever said MJ is “just a scorer”. He’s widely recognized as the GOAT, widely recognized as one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever, greatest dunkers ever, and is consistently praised for having no weakness in his game,

Seems like you’re taking after MJ himself and inventing things that other people said so that you can talk and repeat yourself.
you’re such a faux-objective partisan hack :lol bron stans and other detractors attempt to say jordan was solely a scorer while pippen handled everything else literally all the time, please stop trolling man

[Axe]

you’re such a faux-objective partisan hack :lol bron stans and other detractors attempt to say jordan was solely a scorer while pippen handled everything else literally all the time, please stop trolling man
Meanwhile his teams actually did better the lesser he averaged in scoring each year. :oldlol:

[Spurs m8]

It just keeps getting worse for Bronies

As if their actual lives aren't bad enough

[Baller789]

It just keeps getting worse for Bronies

As if their actual lives aren't bad enough

What lives?