"That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly.

[Kblaze8855]

It is dearness only which gives everything its value."

So said Thomas Paine. To put it simply we don’t put value on things we get easily. Which sounds obvious enough….but so often it isn’t really the case.

We tell ourselves we don’t credit the people who were born on third base and stand there like they hit a triple. But we do.

We rightfully clown some of the player movement era team ups but history has shown us we will ignore all context given time and go off the accomplishments regardless.

In theory we give extra credit for going the hard way but when it’s time to do the all time rankings few of any of the hard way winners get the extra credit we say they should.

Half this board says that Dirks 2011 title is one of the greatest ever and a good number of you would throw out that it counts for two or three just speaking casually. You might say the same of 94 Hakeem. But when it’s time for rankings do they go where they would with the credit for extra rings?

No. Not even on your list. When you say the 11 ring counts extra then rank Dirk top 20 or whatever instead of top 10 which you would if he actually HAD the extra ring what does that say? If Hakeem’s 94 ring counts extra why isn’t he top 5ish with credit for 3?

You talk up extra credit but do we ever actually give it?

In the end it’s guys who played with monumental talent and teams that were good with or without them who get the love because their accomplishments outclass the guys who stuck it out or were unlucky.

Magic was drafted next to Kareem and had the Cavs be stupid enough to give them a #1 pick for Worthy. He played on a team that started 4 all stars(3 hall of fame) and brought another 2 hall of famers and a dpoy off the bench.

Still gets his ranking. We don’t throw anything he did out. Even if you personally do he’s still top….whatever. A lot higher than the many others who didn’t win like him and never had the situation.

Rick Barry won a ring with nothing but rookie Jamaal Wilkes and role players. He doesn’t really get extra credit.

Would you say you honestly apply the credit you might say you do to these things obtained the hard way?

Giannis went the hard way.

KD signed with a team argued as the best ever the year before.

They retire tomorrow.

Is Giannis really gonna be higher on all the all time lists?

I don’t know that he will.

When you talk about some accomplishment being harder or more respectable do your all time rankings reflected in truth?

Is Dirks 2011 or Hakeem’s 94 a harder situation to win than any of Magic’s seasons?

Probably. But we still say Magic has 5 and they don’t so….what is the real world value of the extra respect we claim we have?

Whats the true upside to doing it “The right way.” if your standing in history doesn’t reflect the difficulties you faced and people will just throw “Never won” or “_____ won more” at you?

If Durant is top 15-20 does that make Giannis top 12 or are we all just full of shit for suggesting the way you do it really matters? You might respect his more…but it’s not actually getting the extra credit is it?

If not…why not?

[Kblaze8855]

And not to distract from the lightly philosophical point above but I have to know…..


I the only one who has been bothered all these years about Montell Jordan saying he could never come whack on an old-school track referencing a Slick Rick song they flipped for “This is how we do it.” that was only like 6 years old? Imagine sampling a song from 2016 and calling it an old school track. I don’t know why but it gets to me every time and I had to get it off my chest. I was going to sneak it into one of those 12 or 15 random question topics I do now and then but I’m too lazy to come up with a dozen nba questions to mask my true purpose.

[Gohan]

Thats interesting, thats like calling “ayo” an old school track

[SouBeachTalents]

I agree with almost everything you said, but KD really is the exception to the rule. I'm not saying everybody feels this way, but his titles with the Warriors were really the first ones I can remember where people really did apply far less credit to his titles than virtually any other superstar I've seen after winning a title & FMVP.

Normally, a guy goes out there, wins b2b titles & FMVP's with two monster Finals performances, they'd be the toast of the league. But Durant really didn't ascend beyond LeBron & Curry in the eyes of the fans like a player normally would have accomplishing the same thing.

I really felt like his standing in the league was no different than it was when he was still on OKC. He was still seen as a top 3 player in the league, an ATG talent, but he was not getting the love that Wade, Kawhi, Giannis & Curry were getting after winning their titles/FMVP's.

Based on his resume KD should be in top 10 talks with Kobe & Hakeem, but more often than not, he is at least a tier below them, around 5-7 spots lower than either of them.

[ArbitraryWater]

It is dearness only which gives everything its value."

So said Thomas Paine. To put it simply we don’t put value on things we get easily. Which sounds obvious enough….but so often it isn’t really the case.

We tell ourselves we don’t credit the people who were born on third base and stand there like they hit a triple. But we do.

We rightfully clown some of the player movement era team ups but history has shown us we will ignore all context given time and go off the accomplishments regardless.

In theory we give extra credit for going the hard way but when it’s time to do the all time rankings few of any of the hard way winners get the extra credit we say they should.

Half this board says that Dirks 2011 title is one of the greatest ever and a good number of you would throw out that it counts for two or three just speaking casually. You might say the same of 94 Hakeem. But when it’s time for rankings do they go where they would with the credit for extra rings?

No. Not even on your list. When you say the 11 ring counts extra then rank Dirk top 20 or whatever instead of top 10 which you would if he actually HAD the extra ring what does that say? If Hakeem’s 94 ring counts extra why isn’t he top 5ish with credit for 3?

You talk up extra credit but do we ever actually give it?

In the end it’s guys who played with monumental talent and teams that were good with or without them who get the love because their accomplishments outclass the guys who stuck it out or were unlucky.

Magic was drafted next to Kareem and had the Cavs be stupid enough to give them a #1 pick for Worthy. He played on a team that started 4 all stars(3 hall of fame) and brought another 2 hall of famers and a dpoy off the bench.

Still gets his ranking. We don’t throw anything he did out. Even if you personally do he’s still top….whatever. A lot higher than the many others who didn’t win like him and never had the situation.

Rick Barry won a ring with nothing but rookie Jamaal Wilkes and role players. He doesn’t really get extra credit.

Would you say you honestly apply the credit you might say you do to these things obtained the hard way?

Giannis went the hard way.

KD signed with a team argued as the best ever the year before.

They retire tomorrow.

Is Giannis really gonna be higher on all the all time lists?

I don’t know that he will.

When you talk about some accomplishment being harder or more respectable do your all time rankings reflected in truth?

Is Dirks 2011 or Hakeem’s 94 a harder situation to win than any of Magic’s seasons?

Probably. But we still say Magic has 5 and they don’t so….what is the real world value of the extra respect we claim we have?

Whats the true upside to doing it “The right way.” if your standing in history doesn’t reflect the difficulties you faced and people will just throw “Never won” or “_____ won more” at you?

If Durant is top 15-20 does that make Giannis top 12 or are we all just full of shit for suggesting the way you do it really matters? You might respect his more…but it’s not actually getting the extra credit is it?

If not…why not?


Because none of that makes a player better.

But for that singular season,

we might actually rate it higher season to season.


Or at least find it more "impressive".

Not sure how you equated the harder title runs to greater career.

[FultzNationRISE]

1-9

[Kblaze8855]

Because none of that makes a player better.

But for that singular season,

we might actually rate it higher season to season.


Or at least find it more "impressive".

Not sure how you equated the harder title runs to greater career.



Because I never stop hearing people say how much more impressive this ring is or that ring or how this one counts this and that one counts as something else but then you look at the all-time list and it’s all people on teams that should have won at and near the top regardless of how easy their teams made it.

If we aren’t actually going to give the people who do things we say are more impressive the higher ranking what does it matter?

[Kblaze8855]

I agree with almost everything you said, but KD really is the exception to the rule. I'm not saying everybody feels this way, but his titles with the Warriors were really the first ones I can remember where people really did apply far less credit to his titles than virtually any other superstar I've seen after winning a title & FMVP.

Normally, a guy goes out there, wins b2b titles & FMVP's with two monster Finals performances, they'd be the toast of the league. But Durant really didn't ascend beyond LeBron & Curry in the eyes of the fans like a player normally would have accomplishing the same thing.

I really felt like his standing in the league was no different than it was when he was still on OKC. He was still seen as a top 3 player in the league, an ATG talent, but he was not getting the love that Wade, Kawhi, Giannis & Curry were getting after winning their titles/FMVP's.

Based on his resume KD should be in top 10 talks with Kobe & Hakeem, but more often than not, he is at least a tier below them, around 5-7 spots lower than either of them.



Kobe won more than Kevin Durant. People get to put five rings next to his name forever regardless of the fact he had six or seven years of prime Shaq. People may feeeeeel like Kobe’s first few aren’t as impressive as some others but there he sits on every list as if it doesn’t much matter.

Far as Hakeem? I don’t know who wins that vote in public. I’d imagine it’s pretty close and would come down to age of the responders.

[Gohan]

Kobe was way better than durant. Yall must be on that dope. Kobe won more than durant because kobe was just much better. Winning doesnt make you better but in kobes case.. he was a much better player than durant