Sean Elliott: 1999 Spurs would have defeated 98 Bulls

[JBSptfn]

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RfPe-LPg_M

[TAZORAC]

I agree, the 99 Spurs were deeper. Bulls biggest weakness was they weren't deep.

[3ba11]

Nearly every team that the Bulls faced had superior depth, so the Bulls beat numerous incredibly-deep teams over their 6 titles - that's kind of what the jordan simply DID - that's why he's goat.. The Bulls weren't a stacked team with numerous stars but many of their opponents were infact that type of team..

But then again, I've always thought guys like Horry or Sean Elliot were Pippen-level players or even better in Elliot's case (Elliot was the perfect kind of ELITE ATHLETE AND SHOOTER that today's game requires) - so if Elliot can match or outplaying Pippen, then sure - it's hard to ask Jordan to demolish duncan AND robinson by himself.

[TAZORAC]

Nearly every team that the Bulls faced had superior depth, so the Bulls beat numerous incredibly-deep teams over their 6 titles - that's kind of what the jordan simply DID - that's why he's goat.. The Bulls weren't a stacked team with numerous stars but many of their opponents were infact that type of team..

But then again, I've always thought guys like Horry or Sean Elliot were Pippen-level players or even better in Elliot's case (Elliot was the perfect kind of ELITE ATHLETE AND SHOOTER that today's game requires) - so if Elliot can match or outplaying Pippen, then sure - it's hard to ask Jordan to demolish duncan AND robinson by himself.

Only team I can really remember the Bulls beating during their championship runs who were deeper were the KNICKS, and they were more so DEFENSIVELY DEEP. Didn't have enough scoring.

[3ba11]

Only team I can really remember the Bulls beating during their championship runs who were deeper were the KNICKS, and they were more so DEFENSIVELY DEEP. Didn't have enough scoring.


The 1st three-peat Bulls were only ranked 7th, 4th, and 7th defensively, so nearly all of their ECF and Finals opponents had better-ranked defenses such as the 91' Pistons, 91' Lakers, 92' Knicks, 92' Blazers and 93' Knicks.

In addition superior defensies, most of the Bulls' opponents had 3rd scoring options - the Pistons had 3x all-star Aguirre, while the Suns had 3x all-star Majerle or the Sonics had All-NBA Schrempf...

A guy like Buck Williams was a historic defensive player that destroys Horace Grant.. Williams was buried on a stacked Blazer team with 20 ppg scorers like Drexler, Porter, Jerome Kersey or 2x all-star Duckworth.. All-defensive Cliff Robinson and Danny Aingle came off the bench - they were COMPLETELY... STACKED... that's why Jordan needed to average 35 and 40 to beat the Blazers and Suns - those were the most stacked teams that he faced... And yeah, the Knicks and Bad Boys were stacked too.. or the Shaq/Penny Magic.. Jordan simply carried a weak-scoring cast to 6 titles..

Btw, the 91' Lakers had 4 guys average 17 ppg or more (pippen-caliber) in the 91' Finals - Perkins and Divac averaged 17/9 as sophisticated bigs along with Magic/Worthy at 19 ppg, while Scott was a 20 ppg scorer.. AC Green was 1x all-star and super-talent Elden Campbell came off the bench - again, these are much better players than the Bulls had and a stacked team compared to the meager Bulls.

[Hey Yo]

Bulls 91 ring is tainted cause you said LA would have won with a healthy Worthy.

[3ba11]

Bulls 91 ring is tainted cause you said LA would have won with a healthy Worthy.


If Worthy dominates, the Lakers have a chance.. Pippen infact choked at the critical juncture of the series - the end of Game 3 when he fouled out against Vlade - Vlade's got the AND1 that gave the Lakers the lead, so MJ was forced to hit the game-tying shot and dominate the OT.. The Lakers were infact on empty at the end of regulation, so this was the turning point in the series, whereas a healthy, dominant Worthy could've given the Lakers some more gas in the tank and a chance... i.e. Worthy dominated prime X-Man in the 87' Playoffs, while Pippen was ragdolled by old X-Man in 92'.. Ditto Rodman - Worthy won FMVP on Rodman, while Pippen got a migraine and tricked off the title.. A healthy Worthy was no different than any super-producing, top-tier wing that averages 25-30 with great efficiency and clutch, which is obviously superior to Pippen's secondary level of production and not an option in the clutch (Wiggins or Iggy caliber).

[Reggie43]

The 1999 Spurs barely had any depth but they had good smart vets that played hard.

Weird thing is that I remember Sean Eliott being a good player for them but looking up the stats he averaged just under 12ppg in their playoff run and a measly 8ppg in the Finals lol.

[BigShotBob]

The 1st three-peat Bulls were only ranked 7th, 4th, and 7th defensively, so nearly all of their ECF and Finals opponents had better-ranked defenses such as the 91' Pistons, 91' Lakers, 92' Knicks, 92' Blazers and 93' Knicks.

In addition superior defensies, most of the Bulls' opponents had 3rd scoring options - the Pistons had 3x all-star Aguirre, while the Suns had 3x all-star Majerle or the Sonics had All-NBA Schrempf...

A guy like Buck Williams was a historic defensive player that destroys Horace Grant.. Williams was buried on a stacked Blazer team with 20 ppg scorers like Drexler, Porter, Jerome Kersey or 2x all-star Duckworth.. All-defensive Cliff Robinson and Danny Aingle came off the bench - they were COMPLETELY... STACKED... that's why Jordan needed to average 35 and 40 to beat the Blazers and Suns - those were the most stacked teams that he faced... And yeah, the Knicks and Bad Boys were stacked too.. or the Shaq/Penny Magic.. Jordan simply carried a weak-scoring cast to 6 titles..

Btw, the 91' Lakers had 4 guys average 17 ppg or more (pippen-caliber) in the 91' Finals - Perkins and Divac averaged 17/9 as sophisticated bigs along with Magic/Worthy at 19 ppg, while Scott was a 20 ppg scorer.. AC Green was 1x all-star and super-talent Elden Campbell came off the bench - again, these are much better players than the Bulls had and a stacked team compared to the meager Bulls.

Lol imagine if the Bulls got Buck Williams like MJ wanted.....oh man that would have been an absolute massacre I can't imagine MJ with an actual competent versatile and scoring PF that was a monster on the glass too

[Da_Realist]

He may not be wrong. My feeling at the time was the Bulls were done. That truly was the last dance. They were fraying at the edges. They didn't like playing with each other. PJ wanted out of there. Krause wanted him out of there. They were getting older. Pippen was hurt. 100+ games for 3 straight seasons plus I believe Pippen was on the 96 Dream Team. I was actually glad it ended after 98 although MJ wanted to run it back until they were beaten.

[90sgoat]

It's a shame that MJ and the Bulls didn't get to lose in the finals, so the crown could have been carried on.

A Duncan win over MJ in the finals would probably have changed the GOAT narrative a lot. No one in their right mind would rank Lebron over Duncan, when Duncan would have defeated MJ, Kobe, Shaq and Lebron.

[bison]

The 1999 Spurs barely had any depth but they had good smart vets that played hard.

Weird thing is that I remember Sean Eliott being a good player for them but looking up the stats he averaged just under 12ppg in their playoff run and a measly 8ppg in the Finals lol.

Same here. Must be some kind of Mandela effect because I swore Sean Elliot was a deadly outside shooter, knocking down corner 3s left and right. But now that I think about it, I might just be remembering one single play lol

[Phoenix]

I think they do. The Bulls in 98 were taken to the limit by the Pacers and I think the Spurs frontline causes too many problems for an aging Rodman and post-back surgery Pippen to deal with. If MJ was around for that year( assuming he didn't cut his hand on the cigar cutter or whatever), maybe he plays as well as he did in 98 and is helped by the shortened season, but I just don't think the Bulls had enough left in 99 unless they retooled somehow with some younger supplementary talent. Every single player of consequence was well over 30 by this point.

[pandiani17]

The 1999 Spurs barely had any depth but they had good smart vets that played hard.

Weird thing is that I remember Sean Eliott being a good player for them but looking up the stats he averaged just under 12ppg in their playoff run and a measly 8ppg in the Finals lol.

This. The 99 Spurs had an incredible frontcourt with Duncan and Robinson, but the rest of the roster was very average, and most of them were in their 30s. The PF and C positions were a lot more important then than now, and therefore having TD and The Admiral guaranteed a lot of Ws in the postseason.

[HoopsNY]

It's a shame that MJ and the Bulls didn't get to lose in the finals, so the crown could have been carried on.

A Duncan win over MJ in the finals would probably have changed the GOAT narrative a lot. No one in their right mind would rank Lebron over Duncan, when Duncan would have defeated MJ, Kobe, Shaq and Lebron.

That's a very good point. Though in the case of MJ, the season didn't start 'til January or Feb IIRC. So that time off would have given them much needed rest.

Also, while the Bulls had Rodman to at least counter Duncan, SA would have had no one to really counter MJ, Pippen, and even Kukoc.

Sprewell put up 26/7/3/1 on 41% in the finals.

Houston put up 22/3/3/1 on 43% in the finals.

So what would MJ, Pippen, and Kukoc have done? Intuition tells me MJ probably drops 30, Pippen 20-22, but Kukoc probably drops 15-17.

[3ba11]

It's a shame that MJ and the Bulls didn't get to lose in the finals, so the crown could have been carried on.

A Duncan win over MJ in the finals would probably have changed the GOAT narrative a lot. No one in their right mind would rank Lebron over Duncan, when Duncan would have defeated MJ, Kobe, Shaq and Lebron.


This post gives a glimpse of how Duncan's athleticism was NO RESISTANCE to jordan and was optimal for jordan to dominate:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?368120-Comparing-MJ-and-Lebron-s-Approach-to-Beating-Duncan-amp-Spurs


I was never worried about Duncan - Jordan clearly dominated Duncan in their 2 meetings in the 98' regular season and then dunked on him at 40 years old in the 03' all-star game - Duncan was NO RESISTANCE to mj

[Red Pill Sports]

That's a very good point. Though in the case of MJ, the season didn't start 'til January or Feb IIRC. So that time off would have given them much needed rest.

Also, while the Bulls had Rodman to at least counter Duncan, SA would have had no one to really counter MJ, Pippen, and even Kukoc.

Sprewell put up 26/7/3/1 on 41% in the finals.

Houston put up 22/3/3/1 on 43% in the finals.

So what would MJ, Pippen, and Kukoc have done? Intuition tells me MJ probably drops 30, Pippen 20-22, but Kukoc probably drops 15-17.

Not only that but with a starting backcourt of Avery Johnson and Jaren Jackson, Jordan and Harper can afford to be rovers on defense (while taking turns with Pippen in guarding Sean Elliott) and thus double Duncan with near impunity.

[HoopsNY]

Not only that but with a starting backcourt of Avery Johnson and Jaren Jackson, Jordan and Harper can afford to be rovers on defense (while taking turns with Pippen in guarding Sean Elliott) and thus double Duncan with near impunity.

I don't recall Jackson being the starter. I think it was Mario Elie IIRC. If you remember Elie from the early '90s, he was much more athletic. By the late '90s he was just fat.

Jordan would have likely dominated Elie. If he put up 34 PPG on 52% TS% against Russell/Hornacek/Stockton, then he likely does similar against Elie who was a worse defender than both Russell and Stockton by a mile.

[97 bulls]

I don't recall Jackson being the starter. I think it was Mario Elie IIRC. If you remember Elie from the early '90s, he was much more athletic. By the late '90s he was just fat.

Jordan would have likely dominated Elie. If he put up 34 PPG on 52% TS% against Russell/Hornacek/Stockton, then he likely does similar against Elie who was a worse defender than both Russell and Stockton by a mile.

The starter was Vinny Delnegro

[HoopsNY]

The starter was Vinny Delnegro

In the 1999 finals? Nah I specifically remember it being Mario Elie. Vinny played for Milwaukee in '99.

[WhiteKyrie]

He may not be wrong. My feeling at the time was the Bulls were done. That truly was the last dance. They were fraying at the edges. They didn't like playing with each other. PJ wanted out of there. Krause wanted him out of there. They were getting older. Pippen was hurt. 100+ games for 3 straight seasons plus I believe Pippen was on the 96 Dream Team. I was actually glad it ended after 98 although MJ wanted to run it back until they were beaten.
Hell no. With the extra rest of the delayed season, and the breakfast club staying in shape that entire time? It would’ve benefited the Bulls. God forbid they improved the roster around Mike a little, or maybe even flipped Scottie for pieces since he wanted out anyway. If the 8th seed Knicks sans Ewing got to the Finals? Bulls would’ve been more than good. And against SA? I don’t find that team very frightening. Robinson was winding down. Duncan while ascending greatness wasn’t some insurmountable obstacle. As a Bulls fan at that time, I found the 95 and 96 Magic, 96 Sonics, 97 and 98 Jazz to be much more formidable threats. Hell, even after the 98 ECF (even though age and tread made them a better opponent than they should’ve been) the Pacers were more of a threat than that Spurs team. Bulls greatest strengths had no opposition on that Spurs team. At least the Bulls could mitigate and frustrate SA’s biggest strengths (front court). Idk why people act like the 1999 Spurs are some amazing championship squad.

[97 bulls]

In the 1999 finals? Nah I specifically remember it being Mario Elie. Vinny played for Milwaukee in '99.

You're right

[sportjames23]

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RfPe-LPg_M

:oldlol:

[sportjames23]

I agree, the 99 Spurs were deeper. Bulls biggest weakness was they weren't deep.

Deep enough to beat San Antonio’s ass twice the season before, once without Pippen in the lineup. Elliot can talk all the shit he wants, but the Spurs would got murked by those Bulls. Hell San Antonio couldn’t even manage a repeat all those years.

[WhiteKyrie]

Deep enough to beat San Antonio’s ass twice the season before, once without Pippen in the lineup. Elliot can talk all the shit he wants, but the Spurs would got murked by those Bulls. Hell San Antonio couldn’t even manage a repeat all those years.

Yea Mike bitch smacked them at 35 without Scottie. Forgot about that. Not that two game samples in the regular season are smoking gun proof of anything. MJ would’ve been just fine.

[kawhileonard2]

1999 Spurs would have lost to a legit team.