Can you give me 10 GOAT commandments? How about 5?

[Kblaze8855]

I hate having to explain my reference but there are plenty of people here who weren’t even born when this came out….


https://youtu.be/ZYb_8MM1tGQ


Just some life lessons that were beaten into the head of much of a generation. We didn’t all absorb the lesson of course. My cousin did 14ish years after breaking 6 of those commandments but instead of an elaborate story about that let’s see if we can make a similar list for basketball GOAT prospects.

Not necessarily to be the goat because with 5-10 rules everyone’s gonna be lacking one or two. At least until someone comes in and intentionally sculpts a list to wrap around whoever they’re trying to make the GOAT. But generally speaking…for you to accept someone as deserving the conversation what rules would you suggest they follow?


A lot of potential ones I thought of immediately didn’t apply to some goat candidates. Like say…you make one “Must demand the last shot”. In a world where Russell existed? And even Magic who would happily take it but ran many plays through Kareem? You can’t say that’s make it or break it. But I WILL accept it as a general rule in the spirit of [Pirates of the Caribbean]“They’re more like guidelines really….”[that movie series that got stale fast]. You can say “Don’t play for more than one team” but then 4 of the accepted top 10 are out. So like I said…guidelines. What a player potentially of that caliber should look to cover if he wants a spot in your personal record book(because what you think matters of course).



Give it a shot. If you can’t get to 10 I’ll take what you have.

[Kblaze8855]

Off the top of my head and no doubt needing much more thought than I’ll give it right now….

*also not in order*


1. Play both ends at a high level. There are only two players who I ever see listed top 10 I wouldn’t say were ever elite defenders. Well 3. 7 of 10 are enough for it to be a loose guideline.

2. Be the best player on your team your entire prime. Hard to make a GOAT case for someone who may not be the best player on his own team at his peak. Not impossible…but hard.

3. Win at least once. With bad enough luck it’s possible for a goat to never win but it’s unlikely in a game where individuals can have such an impact. It isn’t football or baseball where you need it all clicking from the owner to the bench and it’s all kinda random. One great basketball player can take over a game more than one player can win most sports.

4. Bring a good culture to the team? Is that fair? I’m not sure how to word it but…you know it when you see it. Think Duncan. Steph. Bird. Magic. Those are culture guys. Teams take on their approach and play well as a team because of it. Seriously stretching the limits of a rule and hanging out in the guideline section but…it needs a mention.

5. Maintain whatever greatness you reach for a good period of time. Less important if the question is “best” of all time but greatness has always had an accomplishment element you just can’t fill out fully with 3 years of health.

That’s a more words than needed 5 I can start with. To put it more simply….

1. Be complete

2. Be the man

3. Win

4. Don’t be a total dick(on the court at least)

5. Stay healthy and motivated

But you all know I rarely opt for brevity. Being misunderstood is among my fears.

[Bawkish]

Thou shall not taste cheerios (Melo or Pip)

[dankok8]

I guess one can think of GOAT commandments as GOAT criteria because it's how we judge the GOAT player. The ones you listed are good.

I could probably add three more:

6. Dominance - You have to outplay stars on opposing teams in the playoffs. If you're not the best player on the court, you can hardly be the GOAT.

7. Personal accolades - Stuff like MVP's, scoring titles, rebounding titles, assist titles etc

8. Statistical records - Basically the GOAT should have some impressive statistical records.

[Full Court]

Thou shalt not be an epic choker.

[Jasper]

play and run around screens on defense

look for boards

play as hard or harder on offense (run like reggie miller)

Look for boards

don't demand last shot / you will get it if you do all above

[Real Men Wear Green]

My commandments, without reading anyone else's ideas:

1. "Thou shalt compete." I am not just going for "best" here, I am taking "great" to mean overcoming greater challenges. So this won't just be a ring and MVP counting. Those two things are still probably the most important but the way Olajuwon or Nowitzki won rings deserves more credit than when Durant joins a team that just won 73 games. And beat his team on the way to the Finals.

2. An especially bad moment can cost some points. Scottie Pippen isn't in the Greatest ever convo but if he was sitting out vs. the Knicks when the play was called for Kukoc hurts. I don't believe in blaming a guy for losing but making that kind of decision shouldn't be glossed over.

3. Nothing counts that happens in a league before said league is integrated. More relevant to baseball.

4. Greatness is about how a player does vs. his competition, not how we think they do in a hypothetical match-up. There are players from 20 or even 30 years ago that could still be stars if they played today but overall the players in a current league are always the best they've ever been. Evolution is a real thing, if Bob Cousy played today and is the exact same he's not an NBA player. But we should accept this fact with respect knowing that if Cousy was a kid today he would not be the same player, he would be lifting weights, dribbling with both hands and learning to shoot threes off the dribble. That doesn't mean we can be sure of what he would be in the modern day. But we should absolutely have in mind that players of the modern day look at what players of the past did and build upon that, and that is the biggest reason modern players will always be better overall than past players. The star does not exist that we couldn't look up quotes where he talks about his influences growing up. the further you go back the less influences. I couldn't tell you who, if anyone, influenced Bob Cousy. Keep that in mind when you point out how obviously better Ja Morant is than he was.

5. Defense is just as important as offense, but is treated as less important because it's harder to quantify. What is the equivalent of a 30 ppg scorer, a 4 bpg defender? No one is going to say Dikembe Mutombo was as great as Larry Bird. So to be the greatest ever a guy should be great on both ends of the floor.

6. Player and coach opinions are more valid than our own...but they also vary just like our own. Go ahead quote someone if it supports your position but neither Kendrick Perkins nor Steve Kerr is going to say something that ends the argument.

7. Having or not having social conscience or publicly expressing certain politics or social positions may make you like a guy less or more but has nothing to do with how good they are at basketball or whatever other sport.

8. Players from major markets tend to get overrated for playing in a bigger media market. I am mainly saying this because I hate the Knicks, even though I know no one is putting any Knick into the GOAT debate. My Knick hating generally goes unnoticed because they've been average or just sucked for so long so it looks like my analysis is fair.

9. NCAA and ABA accomplishments should be respected and are worth mentioning but they are not quite the same as NBA...tough to quantify though. Guys like Dr. J played in the ABA, it's tough to say that league is second-rate when some of the best players in the world played there.

10. It's not fair but durability matters. They deserve as much respect as anyone but Grant Hill and Bill Walton are not amongst the reatest players of all time.

[post]

1. don't get drafted by denver

2. don't resign with them if you do

https://i.ibb.co/9hY93DZ/086071ce9d408ab99116cabe946a99b7-1.jpg

[WhiteKyrie]

1. More than five championships
2. Without question most dominant player of your era
3. Iconic and legendary memorable Playoff / Finals performances
4. Influence on the game and the culture
5. No need to manipulate roster control, whether through trades and especially not bouncing around through free agency to stack talent (modern player problems but also Magic and Kareem)

[Kblaze8855]

. 9. NCAA and ABA accomplishments should be respected and are worth mentioning but they are not quite the same as NBA...tough to quantify though. Guys like Dr. J played in the ABA, it's tough to say that league is second-rate when some of the best players in the world played there.


I do hate how it hurts Doctor J. Especially since he actually joined the nba. Signed with the Hawks when he was 22 coming off his rookie ABA season and the Bucks sued since they held his nba rights and they wanted to pair him with Kareem. I can’t blame the Bucks for wanting to win the entire 1970s which that duo should have but still….

A judge let him out of his ABA contract because his agent was secretly a league employee and he signed with the Hawks literally the day before the nba draft where the Bucks took him(he was a Junior when he left college and therefore ineligible for the nba for a year).

Later on appeal another court said the ABA contract was still valid. So he had a contract with 2 teams while being drafted by a third. Just a mess.

Feels like a contract dispute he wanted to play through shouldnt cost 10 spots on the goat list but it did for him.

Absolute prime Doc with either Pistol Pete and 2 other hall of famers on the Hawks or with Kareem and Oscar on the Bucks….

Instead he dominates the ABA because of a court order and nobody counts it.

[3ba11]

.
1) elevate teammates - have a significant track record of inspiring teammates to better performance (not a record of needing more help) and also have a record of teammate development while playing alongside you, aka grow single-digit rookies or otherwise low-producing young players into viable producers

2) learn how to play the best basketball, aka learn the best strategy and brand of ball in the league

3) have no weaknesses (on-ball, off-ball, jumpshooting, FT's, rim attack, post, feetwork, mid-range, ad-hoc pure scoring instinct, clutch)

4) defeat maximum defensive attention, aka carry scoring load in playoff and Finals of title run (requires elite jumpshooting skill and sufficient brand of ball)

5) never lose as the favorite, or with top teams (1 or 2 seed), or in the Finals, and basically never lose with an all-star teammate (aka lose the least ever with an all-star)

[Chick Stern]

1) Do not QUIT the Association.

[GimmeThat]

only talks about the important aspects of the game, whereas important is defined by prophetic

[WhiteKyrie]

1) Do not QUIT the Association.

You have to keep not making the playoffs are losing in the first round until you die?

[SATAN]

1) Do not QUIT the Association.

2) Don't get ass kicked by a midget investment banker

[Avinash]

Haven't lost six finals or more.