Scottie Pippen Slams Michael Jordan For His Decision To Play Baseball

[Lebron23]

Scottie Pippen Slams Michael Jordan For His Decision To Play Baseball: "It Was A Selfish Decision, But It Was Kind Of Who Michael Jordan Was. That Was A Guy Who Believed He Could Do Anything On His Own"

NICO MARTINEZ

November 23, 2022

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Scottie Pippen Reveals He Is Very Upset With Michael Jordan: "How Dare Michael Treat Us That Way After Everything We Did For Him And His Precious Brand."
Source: People

In a recent interview on "The Dan Patrick Show," Scottie Pippen made headlines for going off on several important and legendary NBA figures.

Besides calling Phil Jackson a racist, Scottie moved his sights over to Michael Jeffrey Jordan, who he referred to as "selfish".

"Yeah It was a big decision, but It was a selfish decision, but it was kind of who Michael Jordan was. That was a guy who believed he can do anything on his own."

Jordan famously left the sport in 1993 for a stint in baseball. MJ's father had passed away just months earlier, and the Bulls superstar wanted to take some time to honor him.

While there is no way to know Jordan's true motivations for his first retirement, Scottie apparently regards that whole decision as a selfish one, and also seemingly MJ himself as selfish.

It is true that he left his teammates, the organization, the NBA, and its fans hanging and without the best player in the world. It's understandable that Scottie would have some butter feelings about it.

Then again, it's totally within MJ's right to step away from the game for a bit, especially after experiencing such a traumatic event.

Whatever your opinion on the matter, MJ did eventually return to the Bulls, where he won three more Championships to cement his place in history. While Scottie was. a huge part of that run, it's becoming quite clear that his off-court relationship with Michael wasn't exactly shining.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/scottie-pippen-slans-michael-jordan-for-his-decision-to-play-baseball-it-was-a-selfish-decision-but-it-was-kind-of-who-michael-jordan-was-that-was-a-guy-who-believed-he-could-do-anything-on-his-own

[Bacchus]

What about Pippen throwing a chair and demanding to be traded? Jordan never demanded a trade even when his supporting cast was terrible

[97 bulls]

Scottie Pippen Slams Michael Jordan For His Decision To Play Baseball: "It Was A Selfish Decision, But It Was Kind Of Who Michael Jordan Was. That Was A Guy Who Believed He Could Do Anything On His Own"

NICO MARTINEZ

November 23, 2022

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MTgyMDY1NzUyMTA1Mjk3MDI3/scottie-pippen-on-michael-jordans-decision-to-play-baseball--it-was-a-selfish-decision-but-it-was-kind-of-who-michael-jordan-was-that-was-a-guy-who-believed-he-could-do-anything-on-his-own.webp



https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/scottie-pippen-slans-michael-jordan-for-his-decision-to-play-baseball-it-was-a-selfish-decision-but-it-was-kind-of-who-michael-jordan-was-that-was-a-guy-who-believed-he-could-do-anything-on-his-own

I always thought it weird that people would bash Scottie Pippen for having a migraine headache and thus having a bad game in 90. Not taking into consideration thst he lost his father a few weeks before that game, but Michael Jordan gets a pass for retiring a few weeks before the start of a season in which the Bulls were going for an unprecedented 4 straight titles. For Jordan to say he didn't have any motivation to keep competing is just nonsense. He could've tried to catch Bill Russell and his winning 8 straight titles.

What hilarious is that Pippen is castigated for not winning a championship in 94 even though he lost his best teammate. It's maddening.

[3ba11]

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I always thought it weird that people would bash Scottie Pippen for having a migraine headache and thus having a bad game in 90. Not taking into consideration thst he lost his father a few weeks before that game, but Michael Jordan gets a pass for retiring a few weeks before the start of a season in which the Bulls were going for an unprecedented 4 straight titles. For Jordan to say he didn't have any motivation to keep competing is just nonsense. He could've tried to catch Bill Russell and his winning 8 straight titles.

What hilarious is that Pippen is castigated for not winning a championship in 94 even though he lost his best teammate. It's maddening.


It wasn't just the migraine game - Pippen averaged 10 ppg for the 88' and 89' series against the Pistons and only 16 on 42% for the 90' ECF - Pippen's standard against the Pistons was wetting the bed, aka 12 on 42% against the 88-90' Pistons.. He quit for the last 2 games of the 89' ECF worse than the 90' ECF.

Here's Bill Laimbeer saying "we didn't even think about Pippen - it was just Jordan and the Jordanaires - and you can't win basketball games with just 1 player like that" (here (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-jordan-rules-what-the-last-dance-documentary-doesnt-say-about-pistons-defense-against-michael-jordan/amp/)).

Furthermore, Pippen always choked against physical teams like the Bad Boys or 92' Knicks - he was getting ragdolled by X-Man for the entire 92' ECSF and was about to have another migraine in Game 7 until MJ famously confronted X-Man at midcourt (gif above).. This was part of MJ's organic learning curve - he learned to be the enforcer for Pippen and probably could've prevented Pippen's migraine in 90' if he'd stood up to Laimbeer the same way.

Ultimately, people have it backwards - they say Jordan "needed" Pippen's 5-7 assists when everyone else actually got 10-15 from their sidekick (Stockton, Payton, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Penny).. Accordingly, people shouldn't think that Jordan "needed" Pippen's 5 assists and should be praising him for needing less passing and scoring help (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg) than any of his peers.

Btw, the Bulls 3-peat in 93' was already unprecedented in the modern era, so that's why there was nothing else to prove - everyone said the 3-peat was the achievement that put Jordan over Magic/Bird, so he was free to pursue baseball - here's Phil Jackson and MJ saying that there were no more challenges (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo8XY-bNcPs&t=08m37s)).. The reality is that if Jordan had lost to Barkley, he would never have retired, so his unprecedented dominance and winning allowed him to pursue baseball.

And Pippen had a fully-grown 3-peat dynasty in 1994, which provided a 1-hit wonder in the regular season that was exposed in the playoffs and following regular season (borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned)... The 94' Playoffs actually exposed Pippen as badly as anyone can get exposed - he had the "sit out game" choke and also the "dumb foul" choke on Hubert Davis (the hack is shown above), while also choking in the Game 7 and many other little chokes (3.0 on 20% in the fourth quarter of that series - stats shown in gif above).. So Pippen was exposed as not a viable 1st option and completely embarrassed without Mike.

[WhiteKyrie]

This dude is so far off the reservation after his wife left him for future, and now Jordan’s son is plowing her out? What is he mad about realistically what happened and what was presented in the Netflix documentary two years ago? God damn. The level of salt and vitriol for a man that basically made his game and his résumé, it’s astounding. Mike was so generous with this guy as well

[Red Pill Sports]

Scottie Pippen Slams Michael Jordan For His Decision To Play Baseball: "It Was A Selfish Decision, But It Was Kind Of Who Michael Jordan Was. That Was A Guy Who Believed He Could Do Anything On His Own"

NICO MARTINEZ

November 23, 2022

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MTgyMDY1NzUyMTA1Mjk3MDI3/scottie-pippen-on-michael-jordans-decision-to-play-baseball--it-was-a-selfish-decision-but-it-was-kind-of-who-michael-jordan-was-that-was-a-guy-who-believed-he-could-do-anything-on-his-own.webp



https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/scottie-pippen-slans-michael-jordan-for-his-decision-to-play-baseball-it-was-a-selfish-decision-but-it-was-kind-of-who-michael-jordan-was-that-was-a-guy-who-believed-he-could-do-anything-on-his-own

This from the guy who waited to have surgery until the last possible second in an effort to sabotage the Bulls (only for them to go 26-12 in his absence).

[Spuddywebby]

In other news, Marcus Jordan Slams Scottie Pippen’s ex Wife.

[97 bulls]

This from the guy who waited to have surgery until the last possible second in an effort to sabotage the Bulls (only for them to go 26-12 in his absence).

He wasn't obligated to have surgery during the off season. Just like I'm sure you feel the Bulls weren't obligated to restructure Pippens contract.

[97 bulls]

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It wasn't just the migraine game - Pippen averaged 10 ppg for the 88' and 89' series against the Pistons and only 16 on 42% for the 90' ECF - Pippen's standard against the Pistons was wetting the bed, aka 12 on 42% against the 88-90' Pistons.. He quit for the last 2 games of the 89' ECF worse than the 90' ECF.

Here's Bill Laimbeer saying "we didn't even think about Pippen - it was just Jordan and the Jordanaires - and you can't win basketball games with just 1 player like that" (here (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-jordan-rules-what-the-last-dance-documentary-doesnt-say-about-pistons-defense-against-michael-jordan/amp/)).

Furthermore, Pippen always choked against physical teams like the Bad Boys or 92' Knicks - he was getting ragdolled by X-Man for the entire 92' ECSF and was about to have another migraine in Game 7 until MJ famously confronted X-Man at midcourt (gif above).. This was part of MJ's organic learning curve - he learned to be the enforcer for Pippen and probably could've prevented Pippen's migraine in 90' if he'd stood up to Laimbeer the same way.

Ultimately, people have it backwards - they say Jordan "needed" Pippen's 5-7 assists when everyone else actually got 10-15 from their sidekick (Stockton, Payton, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Penny).. Accordingly, people shouldn't think that Jordan "needed" Pippen's 5 assists and should be praising him for needing less passing and scoring help (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg) than any of his peers.

Btw, the Bulls 3-peat in 93' was already unprecedented in the modern era, so that's why there was nothing else to prove - everyone said the 3-peat was the achievement that put Jordan over Magic/Bird, so he was free to pursue baseball - here's Phil Jackson and MJ saying that there were no more challenges (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo8XY-bNcPs&t=08m37s)).. The reality is that if Jordan had lost to Barkley, he would never have retired, so his unprecedented dominance and winning allowed him to pursue baseball.

And Pippen had a fully-grown 3-peat dynasty in 1994, which provided a 1-hit wonder in the regular season that was exposed in the playoffs and following regular season (borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned)... The 94' Playoffs actually exposed Pippen as badly as anyone can get exposed - he had the "sit out game" choke and also the "dumb foul" choke on Hubert Davis (the hack is shown above), while also choking in the Game 7 and many other little chokes (3.0 on 20% in the fourth quarter of that series - stats shown in gif above).. So Pippen was exposed as not a viable 1st option and completely embarrassed without Mike.

No it was only because of the migraine game. Outside of that game, Pippen averaged 19 on 47%. He probably could've done more had Jordan utilized his teammates better and not go 1-5. I remember Jordan in the late 80s. He was considered a ball hog and a chucker. That's why the Bulls had to implement a whole new offense to force Jordan to share the ball.
I've already obliterated all your talking points. Lol. It becomes redundant. Why do you always punk out when you're challenged?

[Red Pill Sports]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif

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It wasn't just the migraine game - Pippen averaged 10 ppg for the 88' and 89' series against the Pistons and only 16 on 42% for the 90' ECF - Pippen's standard against the Pistons was wetting the bed, aka 12 on 42% against the 88-90' Pistons.. He quit for the last 2 games of the 89' ECF worse than the 90' ECF.

Here's Bill Laimbeer saying "we didn't even think about Pippen - it was just Jordan and the Jordanaires - and you can't win basketball games with just 1 player like that" (here (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-jordan-rules-what-the-last-dance-documentary-doesnt-say-about-pistons-defense-against-michael-jordan/amp/)).

Furthermore, Pippen always choked against physical teams like the Bad Boys or 92' Knicks - he was getting ragdolled by X-Man for the entire 92' ECSF and was about to have another migraine in Game 7 until MJ famously confronted X-Man at midcourt (gif above).. This was part of MJ's organic learning curve - he learned to be the enforcer for Pippen and probably could've prevented Pippen's migraine in 90' if he'd stood up to Laimbeer the same way.

Ultimately, people have it backwards - they say Jordan "needed" Pippen's 5-7 assists when everyone else actually got 10-15 from their sidekick (Stockton, Payton, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Penny).. Accordingly, people shouldn't think that Jordan "needed" Pippen's 5 assists and should be praising him for needing less passing and scoring help (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg) than any of his peers.

Btw, the Bulls 3-peat in 93' was already unprecedented in the modern era, so that's why there was nothing else to prove - everyone said the 3-peat was the achievement that put Jordan over Magic/Bird, so he was free to pursue baseball - here's Phil Jackson and MJ saying that there were no more challenges (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo8XY-bNcPs&t=08m37s)).. The reality is that if Jordan had lost to Barkley, he would never have retired, so his unprecedented dominance and winning allowed him to pursue baseball.

And Pippen had a fully-grown 3-peat dynasty in 1994, which provided a 1-hit wonder in the regular season that was exposed in the playoffs and following regular season (borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned)... The 94' Playoffs actually exposed Pippen as badly as anyone can get exposed - he had the "sit out game" choke and also the "dumb foul" choke on Hubert Davis (the hack is shown above), while also choking in the Game 7 and many other little chokes (3.0 on 20% in the fourth quarter of that series - stats shown in gif above).. So Pippen was exposed as not a viable 1st option and completely embarrassed without Mike.


He wasn't obligated to have surgery during the off season. Just like I'm sure you feel the Bulls weren't obligated to restructure Pippens contract.

Okay now apply this logic to Jordan's retirement; he wasn't obligated to not wait until October 6.

If Pippen was pissed about that contract he should have never signed it to begin with. Not that the contract makes the surgery postponement any less selfish if we're going by your logic here.

[97 bulls]

Okay now apply this logic to Jordan's retirement; he wasn't obligated to not wait until October 6.

If Pippen was pissed about that contract he should have never signed it to begin with. Not that the contract makes the surgery postponement any less selfish if we're going by your logic here.

I have no issue with Jordan's retirement. I do have an issue with the double standard. Again, why is it ok for Jordan to sabotage the team for his personal life but not Pippen?

Are we talking about ethics? Or legalities? Pippen was not breaking his contractual agreement by choosing to have surgery when he did. Just like the Bulls Organization was not obligated to restructure Pippens contract.

Now, had the Bulls restructured his deal, and Pippen had done what he did, I'd say Pippen was wrong. We can't have it both ways.

Even with Jordan. According to him, he was mulling over retirement months before the season began. Why wait 3 weeks before the season began to do it? All the free agents are signed, they can't change the offense on the fly. Again, why is it ok for Jordan to do what he did, but not Pippen?

[Red Pill Sports]

I have no issue with Jordan's retirement. I do have an issue with the double standard. Again, why is it ok for Jordan to sabotage the team for his personal life but not Pippen?

Are we talking about ethics? Or legalities? Pippen was not breaking his contractual agreement by choosing to have surgery when he did. Just like the Bulls Organization was not obligated to restructure Pippens contract.

Now, had the Bulls restructured his deal, and Pippen had done what he did, I'd say Pippen was wrong. We can't have it both ways.

Even with Jordan. According to him, he was mulling over retirement months before the season began. Why wait 3 weeks before the season began to do it? All the free agents are signed, they can't change the offense on the fly. Again, why is it ok for Jordan to do what he did, but not Pippen?

I'm not the one making the double standard here, Pippen is. If Jordan was being selfish, then so was Pippen. But I don't expect self-reflection or accountability from Pippen.

[97 bulls]

I'm not the one making the double standard here, Pippen is. If Jordan was being selfish, then so was Pippen. But I don't expect self-reflection or accountability from Pippen.

I think Pippen made the claim in response to Jordan initially calling Pippen selfish. Again, Jordan called Pippen selfish FIRST. Pippen is saying he (Jordan) did the same thing.

[HylianNightmare]

Have yall ever played played baseball? It's not basketball but damn it's fun

[1987_Lakers]

I love Pippen as a player, but he is no one to talk.

Dude took himself out of a huge playoff game because the final game winning shot was drawn for Kukoc.

Dude decided to get surgery super late which could have hurt his team

If that's not selfish then I don't know what is.

[1987_Lakers]

I think Pippen made the claim in response to Jordan initially calling Pippen selfish. Again, Jordan called Pippen selfish FIRST. Pippen is saying he (Jordan) did the same thing.

This makes more sense if it was just him responding to MJ calling him selfish.

But MJ owed the Bulls nothing, he was coming off winning 3 straight championships & his Dad was just murdered. One of his Dad's wishes was for MJ to play baseball. MJ was going through alot with the loss of his father and just trying to fill his wishes.

[97 bulls]

This makes more sense if it was just him responding to MJ calling him selfish.

But MJ owed the Bulls nothing, he was coming off winning 3 straight championships & his Dad was just murdered. One of his Dad's wishes was for MJ to play baseball. MJ was going through alot with the loss of his father and just trying to fill his wishes.

Lol. Bro. This is what I'm talking about. Pippen didn't not owe the Bulls anything when he opted to get surgery when he did. Was it selfish? Hell yeah it was selfish. But that's what selfish is. Thinking of one's own self interest over anything else. Were the Bulls wrong for not redoing his contract? See, this is a matter of picking and choosing how we apply standards. I agree that Pippen signed that contract and he was thus obligated to play out the contract. But he was underpaid. He has a moral argument. But contracts trump morals in our society. Pippen did not break his contract by getting surgery when he did.

So again. Why are we holding Pippen to a moral standard that we're not holding Jordan or the Bulls to?

[3ba11]

Lol. Bro. This is what I'm talking about. Pippen didn't not owe the Bulls anything when he opted to get surgery when he did. Was it selfish? Hell yeah it was selfish. But that's what selfish is. Thinking of one's own self interest over anything else. Were the Bulls wrong for not redoing his contract? See, this is a matter of picking and choosing how we apply standards. I agree that Pippen signed that contract and he was thus obligated to play out the contract. But he was underpaid. He has a moral argument. But contracts trump morals in our society. Pippen did not break his contract by getting surgery when he did.

So again. Why are we holding Pippen to a moral standard that we're not holding Jordan or the Bulls to?


Check Pippen's Finals stats for the 96' and 97' Finals and tell me again that he didn't own the Bulls anything - he was horrific in 96' (15.7 on 34%) and also 97' (19 on 42%.. 3 APG and 4 TO... woat clutch stats)

So he owed the Bulls a lot heading into the 98' season.

Otoh, Jordan averaged 41/9/6 and delivered the Buls a 3-peat in 1993 Finals (while Pippen shot 46% true shooting), so Jordan owed the Bulls nothing.. The 3-peat was the GOAT achievement in modern history (36/7/8 on 53% for Jordan in the 91-93' Finals... 34/7/7 in 91-93' Playoffs... 35/7/7 in 85-93' Playoffs)

[WhiteKyrie]

No, 97 bulls is being deliberately obtuse in his Scottie Pippen fan boyism.

Nobody gets surgery when the season starts, if you’re trying to show your value as a player you have to be out there, in a positive and productive way.

Scottie was trying to be passive aggressive and take time off during the regular season to prove his value, by thinking 35 year old Michael Jordan was just going to let the Bulls be trash with his next best players being Toni Kukoc, the corpse of Dennis Rodman, and Jason Caffey.

Instead they were actually pretty decent, and were getting better. And only then did Scottie rush to get back.

It was 100% selfish as ****. He knew the team was going out there for three peat, why wouldn’t you get the surgery in the summer and be well prepared for your teammates to start the season? Absolutely piss poor leader ship from second in command.

[3ba11]

No, 97 bulls is being deliberately obtuse in his Scottie Pippen fan boyism.

Nobody gets surgery when the season starts, if you’re trying to show your value as a player you have to be out there, in a positive and productive way.

Scottie was trying to be passive aggressive and take time off during the regular season to prove his value, by thinking 35 year old Michael Jordan was just going to let the Bulls be trash with his next best players being Toni Kukoc, the corpse of Dennis Rodman, and Jason Caffey.

Instead they were actually pretty decent, and were getting better. And only then did Scottie rush to get back.

It was 100% selfish as ****. He knew the team was going out there for three peat, why wouldn’t you get the surgery in the summer and be well prepared for your teammates to start the season? Absolutely piss poor leader ship from second in command.


The bolded above is a reflection that Jordan had 100% of the leadership responsibilities (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAlc&t=1261s) on the bulls and only Jordan faced scrutiny.. I watched all those games - Pippen was never the leader or "that guy" looked upon for leadership - only Jordan was.. Pippen was literally a 7 ppg baby rookie that had to be raised just like everyone else.

For example, I remember when I first looked on basketball-reference and saw that Pippen averaged 15.7 ppg on 34% in the 96' Finals.. I was shocked.. I watched every game of that series on live TV and it was never reported that Pippen was wetting the bed.. I quickly put this in the proper perspective because it was actually standard for the media to not track or notice Pippen's stats because he bore no responsibility for winning - only MJ was held responsible for winning so he's the only guy that faced scrutiny and judgement.. Since Pippen's performance wasn't judged or held responsible for winning, he had no leadership role on the Bulls and was never looked at as "that guy" that was leading the team.

Pippen wasn't a real "star" in this way because his low peak capability (14-22 ppg system player) was never expected to be a "player of the night" or take over any game, or be a factor down the stretch of tight games (clutch time) - so he was mostly ignored and given a pass regardless of what he did... Pippen's bad games within the triangle system (15 on 43%) weren't much different from his near-peak averages (20 on 47%), so no one really judged his play then or now.. Since he wasn't held accountable, he wasn't a leader or viewed as a leader or "that guy".. However, the winning spotlight elevated his Iggy-level performance to media accolade and all-time status.

Btw, Pippen had the worst efficiency and passing of any notable 90's sidekick because other sidekicks like Stockton, Payton, Hardaway, KJ or Penny averaged 10-15 assists, while Pippen averaged 5-7 with worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg)... So people shouldn't be saying Jordan "needed" Pippen and should be praising him instead for winning with less passing and scoring help than his peers.

[97 bulls]

No, 97 bulls is being deliberately obtuse in his Scottie Pippen fan boyism.

Nobody gets surgery when the season starts, if you’re trying to show your value as a player you have to be out there, in a positive and productive way.

Scottie was trying to be passive aggressive and take time off during the regular season to prove his value, by thinking 35 year old Michael Jordan was just going to let the Bulls be trash with his next best players being Toni Kukoc, the corpse of Dennis Rodman, and Jason Caffey.

Instead they were actually pretty decent, and were getting better. And only then did Scottie rush to get back.

It was 100% selfish as ****. He knew the team was going out there for three peat, why wouldn’t you get the surgery in the summer and be well prepared for your teammates to start the season? Absolutely piss poor leader ship from second in command.

I don't disagree. Pippen could've handled that better. But that's not the point. From a moral standpoint, he was wrong. But here comes the double standard. See, you want Pippen to to take the high road and overlook how he was being treated by management. Because of the team. And because he signed that contract. Well, that goes both ways. Pippen was worth more than what the Bulls were paying him. But you now want to scrap the moral argument because it doesn't fit your agenda now. Now you only want to focus on legalities. Well, Pippen wasn't obligated to have surgery over the summer. He didn't take 2 years off like Jordan did.

And Jordan's situation is no different. He wasn't obligated to play. But if he was gonna retire, he should've done it in enough time to give the Bulls a chance to find a proper replacement for him. That was a selfish act. He wasn't thinking about the team, he was thinking about himself.

[97 bulls]

The bolded above is a reflection that Jordan had 100% of the leadership responsibilities (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAlc&t=1261s) on the bulls and only Jordan faced scrutiny.. I watched all those games - Pippen was never the leader or "that guy" looked upon for leadership - only Jordan was.. Pippen was literally a 7 ppg baby rookie that had to be raised just like everyone else.

For example, I remember when I first looked on basketball-reference and saw that Pippen averaged 15.7 ppg on 34% in the 96' Finals.. I was shocked.. I watched every game of that series on live TV and it was never reported that Pippen was wetting the bed.. I quickly put this in the proper perspective because it was actually standard for the media to not track or notice Pippen's stats because he bore no responsibility for winning - only MJ was held responsible for winning so he's the only guy that faced scrutiny and judgement.. Since Pippen's performance wasn't judged or held responsible for winning, he had no leadership role on the Bulls and was never looked at as "that guy" that was leading the team.

Pippen wasn't a real "star" in this way because his low peak capability (14-22 ppg system player) was never expected to be a "player of the night" or take over any game, or be a factor down the stretch of tight games (clutch time) - so he was mostly ignored and given a pass regardless of what he did... Pippen's bad games within the triangle system (15 on 43%) weren't much different from his near-peak averages (20 on 47%), so no one really judged his play then or now.. Since he wasn't held accountable, he wasn't a leader or viewed as a leader or "that guy".. However, the winning spotlight elevated his Iggy-level performance to media accolade and all-time status.

Btw, Pippen had the worst efficiency and passing of any notable 90's sidekick because other sidekicks like Stockton, Payton, Hardaway, KJ or Penny averaged 10-15 assists, while Pippen averaged 5-7 with worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg)... So people shouldn't be saying Jordan "needed" Pippen and should be praising him instead for winning with less passing and scoring help than his peers.

Jordan left his teammates 3 weeks before the start of the season. That's not leadership.

[HoopsNY]

Lol. Bro. This is what I'm talking about. Pippen didn't not owe the Bulls anything when he opted to get surgery when he did. Was it selfish? Hell yeah it was selfish. But that's what selfish is. Thinking of one's own self interest over anything else. Were the Bulls wrong for not redoing his contract? See, this is a matter of picking and choosing how we apply standards. I agree that Pippen signed that contract and he was thus obligated to play out the contract. But he was underpaid. He has a moral argument. But contracts trump morals in our society. Pippen did not break his contract by getting surgery when he did.

So again. Why are we holding Pippen to a moral standard that we're not holding Jordan or the Bulls to?

Because MJ can do no wrong in the eyes of the world. He was this picture perfect player who had no flaws, even as a person. Meanwhile the guy was a genuine douche.

[1987_Lakers]

For example, I remember when I first looked on basketball-reference and saw that Pippen averaged 15.7 ppg on 34% in the 96' Finals.. I was shocked.. I watched every game of that series on live TV and it was never reported that Pippen was wetting the bed.

If you did watch those games live on TV, you wouldn't be shocked looking at his stats years later.

[Red Pill Sports]

I think Pippen made the claim in response to Jordan initially calling Pippen selfish. Again, Jordan called Pippen selfish FIRST. Pippen is saying he (Jordan) did the same thing.

If Pippen was so pissed off about what was said in The Last Dance, he would have said it immediately after the documentary aired, not two and a half years later.

This is just Pippen doing further lashing out because Jordan's son is piping his ex-wife. Real bitch energy right there

[3ba11]

If you did watch those games live on TV, you wouldn't be shocked looking at his stats years later.


That's what I'm saying - Pippen wasn't covered, noticed or tracked back then by anyone - the media didn't say what Pippen had during the games and no one noticed or cared because Pippen wasn't held responsible for winning the games.. And everyone knew his peak capability was non-dominant so there was no anticipation of his performance.. So yeah, 25 years later who would know what a 15 ppg tertiary producer got in a series?.. Do you remember what Mosgov got in the 15' Finals or Bosh in the 11' Finals?

no one was checking the scores like "well let's see what did pippen had" (as if that would determine the outcome)..

the only way Pippen's production impacted the outcome was the rare times that he played above his head, aka 22-28 ppg... HoopsNY's data shows that Jordan couldn't lose the rare times that he received this caliber of sidekick help that everyone else enjoyed as a standard, aka Magic and Lebron barely win 60 games with an elite-scoring sidekick, while Jordan won 95% of his games when Pippen scored 22-28 ppg (according to Hoops' data).

[Red Pill Sports]

Jordan left his teammates 3 weeks before the start of the season. That's not leadership.

Jordan had just led a 3-peat and was Finals MVP every time. He proved his leadership.

Pippen was demanding a trade after 18 months as the "leader", getting ejected, bringing guns to the airport, etc. The pressure was getting to him after less than two years.

[WhiteKyrie]

Jordan had just led a 3-peat and was Finals MVP every time. He proved his leadership.

Pippen was demanding a trade after 18 months as the "leader", getting ejected, bringing guns to the airport, etc. The pressure was getting to him after less than two years.
God damn red pill facts

[Full Court]

I think Pippen made the claim in response to Jordan initially calling Pippen selfish. Again, Jordan called Pippen selfish FIRST. Pippen is saying he (Jordan) did the same thing.

Not saying it didn't happen, but when did Jordan ever call Pippen selfish? I've only ever seen Jordan say positive things about him.

[3ba11]

.
BBALL 101 - NEVER FOUL A JUMPSHOOTER


https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2021/LCBZJA.gif




^^^ That's a massive choke along with the Kukoc miracle save, horrible Game 7, and 3.0 on 20% for the 4th quarter of the series (https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/cKS3B2.gif)

so pippen was COMPLETELY EXPOSED and HISTORICALLY EMBARASSED without mj
.
.

[Soundwave]

Yes how dare Jordan leave carrying Pippen to title after title to (checks notes) grieve the shocking death of his father, the person he was closest to in life.

How dare Jordan not consider Scottie "2nd bannanas" feelings when dealing with personal tragedy and wanting to handle it in his own way.

But hey you know when Scottie is dealing his ex-wife banging Jordan's son, it's fair game for Scottie to trash Phil as a racist, Jordan as selfish, etc. etc. Funny how Kukoc opted to have to Jordan and Jackson induct him to the Basketball Hall of Fame and left Scottie out.

Kukoc knows Pippen is petty and jealous as a person. Did the same thing in Houston taking shots at Charles Barkley, and frankly Barkley was the more mature of the two of them in how that was handled which is embarrassing.

[97 bulls]

Jordan had just led a 3-peat and was Finals MVP every time. He proved his leadership.

Pippen was demanding a trade after 18 months as the "leader", getting ejected, bringing guns to the airport, etc. The pressure was getting to him after less than two years.

Pippen was on those 3peat teams too. And they were co-leaders.

[Red Pill Sports]

Pippen was on those 3peat teams too. And they were co-leaders.

Robin is not equal with Batman. Unlike Shaq and Kobe, this was not a case of 1 and 1A.

[Soundwave]

Also Pippen being sour over the Bulls not renegotiating his contract is dumb as shit.

Has any team in any pro sport ever done that?

You signed the contract you dumb f*ck even when the GM told you explicitly to take a shorter deal.

If anyone was entitled to have their contract renegotiated first it was Jordan, he was carrying the entire NBA to record revenues and dude is not even one of the top 5 paid players in some of those seasons, that was ridiculous.

Once you sign a contract don't ever expect an employer to tear it up so they can pay you more money. You're just a moron if you think that seriously is going to happen.

[97 bulls]

If Pippen was so pissed off about what was said in The Last Dance, he would have said it immediately after the documentary aired, not two and a half years later.

This is just Pippen doing further lashing out because Jordan's son is piping his ex-wife. Real bitch energy right there

He did.

[Spurs m8]

Scottie fuming that MJs sperm is now fvcking his ex wife :roll:

[Soundwave]

Why doesn't Pippen make his own documentary highlighting all the amazing things he did?

He can't because no one would watch that shit. It would flop just like his stupid book did. People watched The Last Dance first for Jordan, THEN Rodman second, then Pippen was the third draw there.

The filmmakers cut the film and focused it around Jordan because that's what people wanted to see. Blaming Jordan as if he any experience in motion picture editing or documentary filmmaking is also another "dumb as shit" moment from Scottie.

No one wants to see a Bulls documentary centered around Pippen and even if there was he'd probably then get angry at the filmmakers of that because you can't tell his story without glossing over the migraine game, the refusal to go back into the Knicks game. Then he'd probably be shitting on those guys and calling them racist if they worked with him.

[Full Court]

Pippen's gone full Bronie. :confusedshrug:

[1987_Lakers]

Btw, this article in the OP is over a year old. I remember when he did that Dan Patrick interview, it got alot of attention on here.

[Bawkish]

Why doesn't Pippen make his own documentary highlighting all the amazing things he did?

He can't because no one would watch that shit. It would flop just like his stupid book did. People watched The Last Dance first for Jordan, THEN Rodman second, then Pippen was the third draw there.

The filmmakers cut the film and focused it around Jordan because that's what people wanted to see. Blaming Jordan as if he any experience in motion picture editing or documentary filmmaking is also another "dumb as shit" moment from Scottie.

No one wants to see a Bulls documentary centered around Pippen and even if there was he'd probably then get angry at the filmmakers of that because you can't tell his story without glossing over the migraine game, the refusal to go back into the Knicks game. Then he'd probably be shitting on those guys and calling them racist if they worked with him.

Yeah, a Pippen documentary would highlight most of his achievements and also a lot of his shortcomings as well.

[97 bulls]

Robin is not equal with Batman. Unlike Shaq and Kobe, this was not a case of 1 and 1A.

Jordan said it. Pippen said it, Phil Jackson said it. And many teammates said it. Jordan and Pippen Co led the Bulls.

[3ba11]

Jordan said it. Pippen said it, Phil Jackson said it. And many teammates said it. Jordan and Pippen Co led the Bulls.


You're lying - no one said that - everyone said that Jordan was the unquestioned leader and performer

You're just making shit up

Pippen was considered to have a beta attitude and mentality - never considered a leader and it's ridiculous to say that he was.. No reporters surrounded Pippen's locker after the game.. No one cared what he had to say... Only Jordan barked orders and led - everyone said that Jordan was the real coach of the team:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nFK_q4swYNs&t=24m23s

[GimmeThat]

it's not as if he went and created a new sport or decided to play a sport with a shorter history than basketball

[Axe]

Pippen was the actual catalyst of the bulls' progress in winning playoff series starting in the late 80s. Krause may be selfish or greedy but at least he's done a great job of orchestrating for him bt.

[guy]

Jordan potentially retiring was being talked about even before the 93 season ended - he’s literally asked about it by Bob Costas right after they won the championship.

And then in an interview with Jordan by Stuart Scott which you can see in the extra scenes from the last dance, Jordan mentions that he told Reinsdorf his intentions in the beginning of the offseason but then Reinsdorf asked him to take the entire offseason to think about it before making a concrete decision - which was before any of the tragic death stuff with his dad happened.

So the idea that Jordan was being selfish and this is somehow comparable to Pippen delaying surgery cause he’s pissed about a contract he signed is pretty stupid.

[Indian guy]

I still don't know what about The Last Dance is so offensive to Pippen. Is it an MJ fluff piece? Sure, but it is also a documentary that goes out of its way to commend every other Bull who played a vital role in the team's success. None more so than Pippen himself. Pretty much the only 2 times he's kind of shown in a negative light is when he refused to enter the game in 1994 and intentionally delaying his surgery going into the 1998 season. And even then, both times the documentary goes out of its way to talk about how "unlike Pippen that was" (1994) and how much the team missed him in 1998 (and how underpaid he was/how Krause screwed him etc). If anything, the documentary is unnecessarily apologetic to him.

So WTF is he so he mad about?? Classic case of persecution complex. He has an overinflated sense of himself and ends up seeing any slight as a massive conspiracy against him. He has made a complete fool of himself the last couple of years. Must be embarrassing for MJ, who doesn't even deem Pippen worthy of a response.

[WhiteKyrie]

Yes how dare Jordan leave carrying Pippen to title after title to (checks notes) grieve the shocking death of his father, the person he was closest to in life.

How dare Jordan not consider Scottie "2nd bannanas" feelings when dealing with personal tragedy and wanting to handle it in his own way.

But hey you know when Scottie is dealing his ex-wife banging Jordan's son, it's fair game for Scottie to trash Phil as a racist, Jordan as selfish, etc. etc. Funny how Kukoc opted to have to Jordan and Jackson induct him to the Basketball Hall of Fame and left Scottie out.

Kukoc knows Pippen is petty and jealous as a person. Did the same thing in Houston taking shots at Charles Barkley, and frankly Barkley was the more mature of the two of them in how that was handled which is embarrassing.
Also telling, yes.


Why doesn't Pippen make his own documentary highlighting all the amazing things he did?

He can't because no one would watch that shit. It would flop just like his stupid book did. People watched The Last Dance first for Jordan, THEN Rodman second, then Pippen was the third draw there.

The filmmakers cut the film and focused it around Jordan because that's what people wanted to see. Blaming Jordan as if he any experience in motion picture editing or documentary filmmaking is also another "dumb as shit" moment from Scottie.

No one wants to see a Bulls documentary centered around Pippen and even if there was he'd probably then get angry at the filmmakers of that because you can't tell his story without glossing over the migraine game, the refusal to go back into the Knicks game. Then he'd probably be shitting on those guys and calling them racist if they worked with him.
Bingo.


Jordan potentially retiring was being talked about even before the 93 season ended - he’s literally asked about it by Bob Costas right after they won the championship.

And then in an interview with Jordan by Stuart Scott which you can see in the extra scenes from the last dance, Jordan mentions that he told Reinsdorf his intentions in the beginning of the offseason but then Reinsdorf asked him to take the entire offseason to think about it before making a concrete decision - which was before any of the tragic death stuff with his dad happened.

So the idea that Jordan was being selfish and this is somehow comparable to Pippen delaying surgery cause he’s pissed about a contract he signed is pretty stupid.
This is true.


Yeah, a Pippen documentary would highlight most of his achievements and also a lot of his shortcomings as well.
So did the documentary Last Dance.

Scottie or anyone else acting like it was a negative smear campaign against him is remedial, the documentary literally starts off with Michael acknowledging you have to mention Scottie in all his success. He was giving him kudos. Michael did this in real time during that entire second three peat. He had a greater appreciation for Pip, after he came back from baseball. He also understood there might be a greater understanding and appreciation of what Michael meant to the team as a leader, because Scottie in just a season and a half of carrying the load as leader and alpha, was already begging Michael to come back, and already couldn’t handle it.

The documentary merely accurately notes things that happened. If it made Scottie look bad or made himfeel extra insecure about it all these years later, oh well. He doubles down in the documentary saying he wouldn’t change anything, if memory serves me correctly.

Mike went five or six years before Scottie even became a reliable star caliber sidekick to help alleviate pressure, and Mike never complained like Scottie.


Also Pippen being sour over the Bulls not renegotiating his contract is dumb as shit.

Has any team in any pro sport ever done that?

You signed the contract you dumb f*ck even when the GM told you explicitly to take a shorter deal.

If anyone was entitled to have their contract renegotiated first it was Jordan, he was carrying the entire NBA to record revenues and dude is not even one of the top 5 paid players in some of those seasons, that was ridiculous.

Once you sign a contract don't ever expect an employer to tear it up so they can pay you more money. You're just a moron if you think that seriously is going to happen.
More facts …


Robin is not equal with Batman. Unlike Shaq and Kobe, this was not a case of 1 and 1A.
Facts

[WhiteKyrie]

I still don't know what about The Last Dance is so offensive to Pippen. Is it an MJ fluff piece? Sure, but it is also a documentary that goes out of its way to commend every other Bull who played a vital role in the team's success. None more so than Pippen himself. Pretty much the only 2 times he's kind of shown in a negative light is when he refused to enter the game in 1994 and intentionally delaying his surgery going into the 1998 season. And even then, both times the documentary goes out of its way to talk about how "unlike Pippen that was" (1994) and how much the team missed him in 1998 (and how underpaid he was/how Krause screwed him etc). If anything, the documentary is unnecessarily apologetic to him.

So WTF is he so he mad about?? Classic case of persecution complex. He has an overinflated sense of himself and ends up seeing any slight as a massive conspiracy against him. He has made a complete fool of himself the last couple of years. Must be embarrassing for MJ, who doesn't even deem Pippen worthy of a response.
How was it a fluff piece? Jordan’s flaws are also examined.

From the gambling addiction, to being a severely domineering and at times intimidating and bullying leader. So that doesn’t hold water either.

Is the redeem team documentary a fluff piece? No.

Is the circle jerk from all his homies on HBO the shop more than a fluff piece but a straight up suck piece? Absolutely.

I only hear LeBron Stan say this. Like it’s over valuing or over mythologize-ing and what Michael did for the Chicago Bulls. It’s not, it’s the truth.

[Full Court]

Jordan said it. Pippen said it, Phil Jackson said it. And many teammates said it. Jordan and Pippen Co led the Bulls.

Bro, I've always been a Pippen fan (as a player, that is - his whining lately has turned me off to him as a person), but Jordan was the clear-cut leader of the Bulls. There was no "co-leader." That's pure revisionist history.

[WhiteKyrie]

Bro, I've always been a Pippen fan (as a player, that is - his whining lately has turned me off to him as a person), but Jordan was the clear-cut leader of the Bulls. There was no "co-leader." That's pure revisionist history.

I mean Scottie was a leader on the team in terms of being second in command, but when you’re talking about the actual leader ship, it was Mike. Scottie played that good cop to MJ’s bad cop, but look how selfish and petty Scottie was and is in reality. He pulled it a number of times. That is not the true leader.

[SATAN]

There's probably more to this stuff then we will ever know.

[HoopsNY]

Some great points here concerning the Last Dance. I didn't know the parts about Reinsdorf asking MJ to take the entire off-season to think about retirement. If that's the case, then MJ can't be blamed at all for retiring when he did.

[Red Pill Sports]

Some great points here concerning the Last Dance. I didn't know the parts about Reinsdorf asking MJ to take the entire off-season to think about retirement. If that's the case, then MJ can't be blamed at all for retiring when he did.

Completely changes the narrative of why Jordan didn't retire until early October. Rather than being "selfish" he was just following his employer's advice.

[guy]

Some great points here concerning the Last Dance. I didn't know the parts about Reinsdorf asking MJ to take the entire off-season to think about retirement. If that's the case, then MJ can't be blamed at all for retiring when he did.

During the last dance, ESPN had some old clips on their app from that time. There was an interview with Stuart Scott where he was talking about his potential upcoming retirement and reminiscing about what happened during his first retirement. I actually don’t remember if he said “entire offseason” but the message was basically take the next few months to think about it and don’t make a decision right after finishing up the season. Of course during those few months his father was murdered. Jordan literally retired within 2 months of confirming his dad was dead, this during a time where his boss told him to take his time to think about retirement. It’s absurd to blame him for how he handled it and then to also compare it to how someone else reacted to a contract dispute.

[Spurs m8]

I still don't know what about The Last Dance is so offensive to Pippen. Is it an MJ fluff piece? Sure, but it is also a documentary that goes out of its way to commend every other Bull who played a vital role in the team's success. None more so than Pippen himself. Pretty much the only 2 times he's kind of shown in a negative light is when he refused to enter the game in 1994 and intentionally delaying his surgery going into the 1998 season. And even then, both times the documentary goes out of its way to talk about how "unlike Pippen that was" (1994) and how much the team missed him in 1998 (and how underpaid he was/how Krause screwed him etc). If anything, the documentary is unnecessarily apologetic to him.

So WTF is he so he mad about?? Classic case of persecution complex. He has an overinflated sense of himself and ends up seeing any slight as a massive conspiracy against him. He has made a complete fool of himself the last couple of years. Must be embarrassing for MJ, who doesn't even deem Pippen worthy of a response.

This is such an embarrassing post lol

Anyone around in the 90s knows it wasn't a fluff piece...MJ was the biggest thing on earth.

Bigger than anything currently on earth or anything that's been on earth in your lifetime....

You literally can't grasp it because you have nothing to compare it with.

[HoopsNY]

During the last dance, ESPN had some old clips on their app from that time. There was an interview with Stuart Scott where he was talking about his potential upcoming retirement and reminiscing about what happened during his first retirement. I actually don’t remember if he said “entire offseason” but the message was basically take the next few months to think about it and don’t make a decision right after finishing up the season. Of course during those few months his father was murdered. Jordan literally retired within 2 months of confirming his dad was dead, this during a time where his boss told him to take his time to think about retirement. It’s absurd to blame him for how he handled it and then to also compare it to how someone else reacted to a contract dispute.

Yea, if that's the case then that settles it. If you do happen to find anything about it that you can share via a video link, then that would greatly be appreciated.

[guy]

Yea, if that's the case then that settles it. If you do happen to find anything about it that you can share via a video link, then that would greatly be appreciated.

https://youtu.be/dil_zN41MeM

Here’s the clip. Says it around the 2:30 mark. Jordan gave him a heads up in June.

[HoopsNY]

https://youtu.be/dil_zN41MeM

Here’s the clip. Says it around the 2:30 mark. Jordan gave him a heads up in June.

MJ mentions that Reinsdorf told him to take the summer in '93 to evaluate whether or not he would come back. That leaves all of September and October. So technically, he still did the team dirty by waiting three weeks before the season began to call it quits.

Having said that, I do believe MJ haters would have still attacked MJ had he announced the retirement in the beginning of September as opposed to October.

[guy]

MJ mentions that Reinsdorf told him to take the summer in '93 to evaluate whether or not he would come back. That leaves all of September and October. So technically, he still did the team dirty by waiting three weeks before the season began to call it quits.

Having said that, I do believe MJ haters would have still attacked MJ had he announced the retirement in the beginning of September as opposed to October.

Wow seriously? :oldlol: Summer technically ends in September anyway. And his dad died within 2 months before. And he gave him a heads up in June. Again, he has no reason to be blamed for this.

[97 bulls]

Jordan potentially retiring was being talked about even before the 93 season ended - he’s literally asked about it by Bob Costas right after they won the championship.

And then in an interview with Jordan by Stuart Scott which you can see in the extra scenes from the last dance, Jordan mentions that he told Reinsdorf his intentions in the beginning of the offseason but then Reinsdorf asked him to take the entire offseason to think about it before making a concrete decision - which was before any of the tragic death stuff with his dad happened.

So the idea that Jordan was being selfish and this is somehow comparable to Pippen delaying surgery cause he’s pissed about a contract he signed is pretty stupid.

Bro. He didn't officially retire until a few weeks before the season began. I think it's even worse that he was contemplating it and waited until the last moment to do what he did. You're in no way shape or form helping his case.

Now if he were truly thinking what's in his best interest and the teams, he would've retired well before the start of the season (since he was already considering it in the middle of the 93 season). Thus giving the Bulls a chance at replacing him competently. As opposed to having to scramble and settle for Pete Myers.

[HoopsNY]

Wow seriously? :oldlol: Summer technically ends in September anyway. And his dad died within 2 months before. And he gave him a heads up in June. Again, he has no reason to be blamed for this.

That is a good point.

[97 bulls]

Wow seriously? :oldlol: Summer technically ends in September anyway. And his dad died within 2 months before. And he gave him a heads up in June. Again, he has no reason to be blamed for this.

Bro. Again. This is a conversation about how Pippen should've done what in the best interest of the team not his own and had surgery in the offseason. I think that's selfish of Pippen to do that. What I can't wrap my head around, is how it's not selfish for Jordan to do what he felt was in his best interest and not put the teams interest over his own.

Mind you, it's not about retiring. It's about when he did it. And how it ended any real possibility of the Bulls winning a 4th straight title.

[97 bulls]

That is a good point.

If Reinsdorf told Jordan to think about it over the summer, Jordan had the rest of June, July , August, and September to think about retirement. He retired October 6th. Lol.

[guy]

Bro. He didn't officially retire until a few weeks before the season began. I think it's even worse that he was contemplating it and waited until the last moment to do what he did. You're in no way shape or form helping his case.

Now if he were truly thinking what's in his best interest and the teams, he would've retired well before the start of the season (since he was already considering it in the middle of the 93 season). Thus giving the Bulls a chance at replacing him competently. As opposed to having to scramble and settle for Pete Myers.

The **** are we talking about here? He told the owner right after the season ended who told him to take his time to think about it. At that point, it’s on management. Sorry, the truth doesn’t fit your narrative. :oldlol:

[Red Pill Sports]

The **** are we talking about here? He told the owner right after the season ended who told him to take his time to think about it. At that point, it’s on management. Sorry, the truth doesn’t fit your narrative. :oldlol:

The more this guy types, the more I'm convinced that Jordan banged his girlfriend.

[97 bulls]

The **** are we talking about here? He told the owner right after the season ended who told him to take his time to think about it. At that point, it’s on management. Sorry, the truth doesn’t fit your narrative. :oldlol:

First, he's not retired until he officially does it. Second, I'm under the impression that Reisndorf told him to think about it over the summer. So nothing was concrete.

[97 bulls]

The more this guy types, the more I'm convinced that Jordan banged his girlfriend.

Shut up bitch

[Axe]

Shut up bitch
:roll:

[Avinash]

It costed them 2 titles, so yes

[guy]

First, he's not retired until he officially does it. Second, I'm under the impression that Reisndorf told him to think about it over the summer. So nothing was concrete.

I can't say for sure the exact order of events and the exact words used in their conversations. Sorry, no one here is close enough to that. Point is, Jordan implies that he was open about retiring in June and made it seem like Reinsdorf requested that he use the rest of the offseason to make his decision vs make a sudden decision just coming off a grueling season i.e. Brett Favre, Tom Brady who did that and ended reversing course. And to anyone getting hung up on "summer" vs "offseason" - I'm sure he's using those terms interchangeably since he doesn't make it seem like Reinsdorf had an issue with the timing and if not, you guys really think if Jordan told him in August he was ready to retire, that Reinsdorf wouldn't have asked him again to take the rest of the offseason? :oldlol:

And if you think Jordan was lying, I'm pretty sure he's not thinking about this made up criticism that a bunch of nerds on something called the "internet" and bitter Scottie Pippen started 25 years later. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

I can't say for sure the exact order of events and the exact words used in their conversations. Sorry, no one here is close enough to that. Point is, Jordan implies that he was open about retiring in June and made it seem like Reinsdorf requested that he use the rest of the offseason to make his decision vs make a sudden decision just coming off a grueling season i.e. Brett Favre, Tom Brady who did that and ended reversing course. And to anyone getting hung up on "summer" vs "offseason" - I'm sure he's using those terms interchangeably since he doesn't make it seem like Reinsdorf had an issue with the timing and if not, you guys really think if Jordan told him in August he was ready to retire, that Reinsdorf wouldn't have asked him again to take the rest of the offseason? :oldlol:

And if you think Jordan was lying, I'm pretty sure he's not thinking about this made up criticism that a bunch of nerds on something called the "internet" and bitter Scottie Pippen started 25 years later. :oldlol:

Lol, he's so unconcerned that his minions think he sent his son to go screw a hoe because Scottie Pippen used to be married to her lol. You guys are a trip.

And since it seems that just talking about retirement no longer made what Jordan decides selfish (smdh), well Pippen gave the Bulls NOTICE that he wouldn't be having surgery in the offseason. And that's why they went out and got Scott Burrell.

The fact is what both players did was selfish. You Jordanites only excuse Jordans behavior because he's your god. Jordan could rape you guys own mother and the first question out your guys piehole would be "what did she do"? SMDH

[WhiteKyrie]

It costed them 2 titles, so yes

94 and 95 are locks if Mike doesn’t retire and swing at curveballs. Don’t care how anyone tries to rationalize it. 94 is last year of Mike’s physical prime. Peak Pippen, Peak Ho Grant, Peak Armstrong, Toni Kukoc.

99 was a weak ass year, and Mike would’ve dog walked the SA Vulture champs.

[1987_Lakers]

94 and 95 are locks if Mike doesn’t retire and swing at curveballs. Don’t care how anyone tries to rationalize it. 94 is last year of Mike’s physical prime. Peak Pippen, Peak Ho Grant, Peak Armstrong, Toni Kukoc.

99 was a weak ass year, and Mike would’ve dog walked the SA Vulture champs.

People continue to ignore the Bulls lost with MJ in '95. Bulls ain't going anywhere that year with no Horace Grant.

[Round Mound]

People continue to ignore the Bulls lost with MJ in '95. Bulls ain't going anywhere that year with no Horace Grant.

:applause:

[WhiteKyrie]

People continue to ignore the Bulls lost with MJ in '95. Bulls ain't going anywhere that year with no Horace Grant.

Not true my guy, Mike only had 15 measly games under his belt before the playoffs started. He was quite visibly rusty. Yet still somehow managed to raise his game, people forget how good he was in those 1995 playoffs, besides the one play where Nick Anderson snuck up on him and stole the ball.

Hell, Chicago should’ve went to a game 7 with Orlando, Mike broke down the defense and drew multiple defenders and kicked it to Luke Longley underneath the basket, who proceeded to blow a layup instead of trying to dunk it. And that was game.

That would’ve pushed it another game in Orlando, that’s with having a total hole at the PF position. With additional rapport for an entire season, with Mike back as best player and leader, they would’ve found a way to plug their holes. Their championship pedigree is proof they’d make it work. They always did.

Rodman wasn’t consistent or top tier in 1997 and 1998, and they did more than fine.

[HoopsNY]

If Reinsdorf told Jordan to think about it over the summer, Jordan had the rest of June, July , August, and September to think about retirement. He retired October 6th. Lol.

Yea but that's exactly guy's point. Reinsdorf told MJ to take the summer to think about it, and he did. So for that reason, you can't blame him. Summer ends September 21st. October 6th was the announcement, so he basically did as he was told.

[WhiteKyrie]

Yea but that's exactly guy's point. Reinsdorf told MJ to take the summer to think about it, and he did. So for that reason, you can't blame him. Summer ends September 21st. October 6th was the announcement, so he basically did as he was told.
Why is this even a discussion? Or something that needs to be defended? Someone isn’t allowed to retire?

Did I like it as a fan? No. But it’s his career and his life. He was contemplating the challenge of baseball for awhile, his father loved the sport and that idea … and then his father was unexpectedly and brutally murdered.

Why are we acting like it’s selfish? I think it’s selfish as a fan or a co worker to act like he’s obligated to do what I want him to do or what his co worker wanted him to do.

Delusional and bizarre really.

[97 bulls]

Yea but that's exactly guy's point. Reinsdorf told MJ to take the summer to think about it, and he did. So for that reason, you can't blame him. Summer ends September 21st. October 6th was the announcement, so he basically did as he was told.

Lol. Really? Again, this is a matter of selfishness. Jordan making the decision that he did when he did, messed up thr Bulls chances. I don't care what he and Reisndorf talked about. These guys argument is that Pippen should've done what was in the best interest of the team over his own self. That's why Pippen caller MJ selfish. I think it was in direct response to Jordan calling him selfish.

The fact of the matter is both did what was in their own self interest.

[97 bulls]

Why is this even a discussion? Or something that needs to be defended? Someone isn’t allowed to retire?

Did I like it as a fan? No. But it’s his career and his life. He was contemplating the challenge of baseball for awhile, his father loved the sport and that idea … and then his father was unexpectedly and brutally murdered.

Why are we acting like it’s selfish? I think it’s selfish as a fan or a co worker to act like he’s obligated to do what I want him to do or what his co worker wanted him to do.

Delusional and bizarre really.

Exactly. Why can't Jordan and his Jordanites apply the same logic to Pippen? For an organization that he felt didn't appreciate him.

[WhiteKyrie]

Exactly. Why can't Jordan and his Jordanites apply the same logic to Pippen? For an organization that he felt didn't appreciate him.

Mike was retiring.

Scottie still was already committed to playing and aiming for a new contract and to contend for a second third title with the Bulls. So no, they’re not the same.

Further contextual differences. Scottie’s father also wasn’t murdered. And never was facing the unbearable level of limelight and accusations and nit picking that the Elvis of basketball (MJ) ever had to face.

The scenarios aren’t remotely the same. Scottie was beyond selfish.

[97 bulls]

Mike was retiring.

Scottie still was already committed to playing and aiming for a new contract and to contend for a second third title with the Bulls. So no, they’re not the same.

Further contextual differences. Scottie’s father also wasn’t murdered. And never was facing the unbearable level of limelight and accusations and nit picking that the Elvis of basketball (MJ) ever had to face.

The scenarios aren’t remotely the same. Scottie was beyond selfish.
Bro. Nobody is saying Jordan shouldn't have retired. Its WHEN he decided to do it.

I'm not one to play the oppression Olympics. Both made decisions based on their own self interest. And I'm sure as hell not gonna trivialize another persons pain. Like how you guys like to bash Pippen for having a migraine and under intense stress after his father died a few weeks prior to a game 7 vs a violent Pistons team.

[WhiteKyrie]

It doesn’t matter when. He had the off season to think about it, and was encouraged to do so. And then being delayed with the murder of his father on top of it. That’s lots to contemplate

[3ba11]

Bro. Nobody is saying Jordan shouldn't have retired. Its WHEN he decided to do it.

I'm not one to play the oppression Olympics. Both made decisions based on their own self interest. And I'm sure as hell not gonna trivialize another persons pain. Like how you guys like to bash Pippen for having a migraine and under intense stress after his father died a few weeks prior to a game 7 vs a violent Pistons team.


part of the reason that people allowed jordan to retire without saying anything is because everyone viewed him as just carrying the Bulls to 3 straight titles (goat achievement), so people allowed him to do whatever he wanted.

41/9/6 is still unprecedented... or 36/7/8 overall for the 3-peat.... if someone did this today, they could do whatever they wanted.. and those numbers would be higher today of course because of the spaced-out, hands-off beginner format

[WhiteKyrie]

part of the reason that people allowed jordan to retire without saying anything is because everyone viewed him as just carrying the Bulls to 3 straight titles (goat achievement), so people allowed him to do whatever he wanted.

41/9/6 is still unprecedented... or 36/7/8 overall for the 3-peat.... if someone did this today, they could do whatever they wanted.. and those numbers would be higher today of course because of the spaced-out, hands-off beginner format
Ether

[Axe]

part of the reason that people allowed jordan to retire without saying anything is because everyone viewed him as just carrying the Bulls to 3 straight titles (goat achievement), so people allowed him to do whatever he wanted.

41/9/6 is still unprecedented... or 36/7/8 overall for the 3-peat.... if someone did this today, they could do whatever they wanted.. and those numbers would be higher today of course because of the spaced-out, hands-off beginner format
1-9

[97 bulls]

It doesn’t matter when. He had the off season to think about it, and was encouraged to do so. And then being delayed with the murder of his father on top of it. That’s lots to contemplate

Sure "when" matter in the context of this discussion. Jordan called Pippen selfish for opting to have surgery when he did.

I mean, this is incredible. Let's understand something here. You ungrateful bastards go ham on Scottie Pippen damn near daily especially for his perceived sub par performance in the 97 and 98 playoffs when he was playing hurt both years. Actually 96 as well. He didn't take 2 years off like MJ, he played the most basketball of any NBA player between 90 to 97. Which includes 5 titles and 2 Olympics. He's underpaid, tasked with the responsibility of taking care of a poor family, played at a high level even when he had a bad back, and you guys call him selfish because he didn't want to have surgery in the offseason and opted to finally rest his body? Again for an organization that didn't appreciate him? But Jordan gets a pass because he scored the most point? Even though Pippen had the most rebounds, assist, steals, and blocks? Lol how ungrateful.

[3ba11]

Sure "when" matter in the context of this discussion. Jordan called Pippen selfish for opting to have surgery when he did.

I mean, this is incredible. Let's understand something here. You ungrateful bastards go ham on Scottie Pippen damn near daily especially for his perceived sub par performance in the 97 and 98 playoffs when he was playing hurt both years. Actually 96 as well. He didn't take 2 years off like MJ, he played the most basketball of any NBA player between 90 to 97. Which includes 5 titles and 2 Olympics. He's underpaid, tasked with the responsibility of taking care of a poor family, played at a high level even when he had a bad back, and you guys call him selfish because he didn't want to have surgery in the offseason and opted to finally rest his body? Again for an organization that didn't appreciate him? But Jordan gets a pass because he scored the most point? Even though Pippen had the most rebounds, assist, steals, and blocks? Lol how ungrateful.


I go ham on Pippen because he provided the worst passing, efficiency, clutch and spacing of any notable 90's sidekick.. And the lowest peak scoring capability (no game-planning required (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif))

So it's always annoying and makes no sense when people say Jordan "needed" Pippen instead of praising him for winning with less passing and scoring help than his peers.. People simply have it backwards, according to the stats and historical record.. Imagine if Iggy had 6 chips and was top 30 all-time - that's Pippen (most overrated player in history)

[97 bulls]

I go ham on Pippen because he provided the worst passing, efficiency, clutch and spacing of any notable 90's sidekick.. And the lowest peak scoring capability (no game-planning required (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif))

So it's always annoying and makes no sense when people say Jordan "needed" Pippen instead of praising him for winning with less passing and scoring help than his peers.. People simply have it backwards, according to the stats and historical record.. Imagine if Iggy had 6 chips and was top 30 all-time - that's Pippen (most overrated player in history)

I see it as Pippen being able to impact the game in a myriad of ways outside of scoring. That why Jordan couldn't win with a great scorer like Geroge Gervin early on. That's why Jordan was able to go out and intentionally lead the league in scoring. Because his number two could have great impact without having to score 25ppg.

[HoopsNY]

Lol. Really? Again, this is a matter of selfishness. Jordan making the decision that he did when he did, messed up thr Bulls chances. I don't care what he and Reisndorf talked about. These guys argument is that Pippen should've done what was in the best interest of the team over his own self. That's why Pippen caller MJ selfish. I think it was in direct response to Jordan calling him selfish.

The fact of the matter is both did what was in their own self interest.

The point is that it wasn't some secret. If Reinsdorf gave him 3 months to think about it, then Reinsdorf had 3 months to have something in the works in the case MJ retired. So in essence, it wasn't MJ's fault that they had Pete Myers, it was Reinsdorf's.

This isn't the towel boy who discussed it with MJ. This is the owner of the team.

[Hey Yo]

Why is this even a discussion? Or something that needs to be defended? Someone isn’t allowed to retire?.

Not when you're in your prime and considered GOAT at the time. Then retire again when you know you have no chance of contending that upcoming season.

Not my GOAT

[97 bulls]

The point is that it wasn't some secret. If Reinsdorf gave him 3 months to think about it, then Reinsdorf had 3 months to have something in the works in the case MJ retired. So in essence, it wasn't MJ's fault that they had Pete Myers, it was Reinsdorf's.

This isn't the towel boy who discussed it with MJ. This is the owner of the team.

Lol that's not how it works bro. By the time Jordan retired, all the key free agents had already been signed. If I remember correctly Kendall Gill and Hersey Hawkins were both free agents after the 93 season.

[3ba11]

Not when you're in your prime and considered GOAT at the time. Then retire again when you know you have no chance of contending that upcoming season.

Not my GOAT


It took Jordan no time to re-build the 95' Bulls (barely .500 when he returned) into goat 3-peat champs.. So Jordan could've re-built another stinker but he was 35 and already the goat with 2 three-peats and 6 FMVP... So there were no challenges (again), which means bye-bye for MJ

[97 bulls]

The point is that it wasn't some secret. If Reinsdorf gave him 3 months to think about it, then Reinsdorf had 3 months to have something in the works in the case MJ retired. So in essence, it wasn't MJ's fault that they had Pete Myers, it was Reinsdorf's.

This isn't the towel boy who discussed it with MJ. This is the owner of the team.

Right. So what you're saying is waste money and sign a name FA just in case Jordan retired?

[HoopsNY]

Right. So what you're saying is waste money and sign a name FA just in case Jordan retired?

No, but they should have been able to make an offer to another team for a trade, even if it involved future picks, by studying the expiring contracts or suitable replacements that fit their scheme. That didn't happen, obviously. To put all the blame on MJ and absolve Reinsdorf is silly IMO.

[97 bulls]

No, but they should have been able to make an offer to another team for a trade, even if it involved future picks, by studying the expiring contracts or suitable replacements that fit their scheme. That didn't happen, obviously. To put all the blame on MJ and absolve Reinsdorf is silly IMO.

Lol. Why would any other team wait on MJ and the Bulls to make a deal? Then they may be missing out on other deals.

Mind you, I'm not blaming MJ for retiring when he did. But I do feel if Pippens decision was a selfish act, then so was MJs. That's all I'm saying

[Red Pill Sports]

Not when you're in your prime and considered GOAT at the time. Then retire again when you know you have no chance of contending that upcoming season.

Not my GOAT

As opposed to a guy who has played far longer but is still less accomplished than the guy you're trashing.

[Baller789]

I wonder what would happen if Jordan had a secret agreement with Bulls management that they would trade him for another superstar, afterwhich Jordan would retire before the season began. :lol I wonder if thats possible.