Higher on each goat list? Let’s keep these picks simple.

[Kblaze8855]

Who/what ranks higher?

Jason Kidd as a passer or Hakeem as a defender?

Jordan as an in game dunker or Reggie as a clutch shooter?

Tim Duncan as a post scorer or Chris Paul as a midrange shooter?

Kyrie as a ball handler or Phil Jackson as a coach?

Whitney Houston as a female vocalist or Steph Curry as a shooter in general?

Giannis on the athlete list or Steve Nash on the skills list?

The wire as a tv drama or Doctor J as a small forward?

KAT as a shooting bigman or Kobe as a post scoring wing?

Darko as a bust or Jokic as an expectation exceeder?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Hakeem

Reggie and it's not even close.

Paul

Whitney Houston

Nash

Gay question

KAT

Darko

[Full Court]

Hakeem

Jordan

Duncan

Jackson

Curry (I think there are way better vocalists than Whitney)

Giannis/Nash tie

The Wire

KAT

Jokic

[FultzNationRISE]

Hakeem

Jordan

Duncan

Jackson

Curry (I think there are way better vocalists than Whitney)

Giannis/Nash tie

The Wire

KAT

Jokic


:roll:

[Real Men Wear Green]

1: Kidd as a passer. Might be the greatest passer of all time because he got it done while teams didn't respect his jumper. Bill Russell kind of owns the GOAT rim protector title.

2. Reggie

3. Duncan

4. Jackson

5. Jackson

6. Eh...Giannis but that's partially about his size.

7. Didn't watch the Wire.

8. Kobe

9. Jokic... let's end on a positive note.

[SouBeachTalents]

Hakeem
Jordan
CP3
Kyrie
Curry
Giannis
The Wire
Kobe
Jokic

[Kblaze8855]

Curry (I think there are way better vocalists than Whitney).


https://youtu.be/FxYw0XPEoKE

Go to 3:10 and listen to about a minute then come back and tell me there are “way” better. She can do that live. Even if you think someone’s better no female is gonna be way better and I suspect whoever you think is way better would tell you they aren’t.

[Kblaze8855]

7. Didn't watch the Wire.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HelpfulUntriedGrouper-size_restricted.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HelpfulUntriedGrouper-size_restricted.gif
You have The Wire as GOAT? Personally, I've got The Sopranos & Breaking Bad as the top two, but I'd have the Wire right below them.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm not rich like you guys. When we started having kids that cable package had to be basic.

[ShawkFactory]

Who/what ranks higher?

Jason Kidd as a passer or Hakeem as a defender? Hakeem

Jordan as an in game dunker or Reggie as a clutch shooter? Jordan

Tim Duncan as a post scorer or Chris Paul as a midrange shooter? Oh shit. Paul maybe?

Kyrie as a ball handler or Phil Jackson as a coach? Kyrie

Whitney Houston as a female vocalist or Steph Curry as a shooter in general? Steph

Giannis on the athlete list or Steve Nash on the skills list? Giannis. Very close though

The wire as a tv drama or Doctor J as a small forward? The Wire. Easily

KAT as a shooting bigman or Kobe as a post scoring wing? Kobe. MJ is the only guy I can think of better. There are a few better shooting bigs

Darko as a bust or Jokic as an expectation exceeder?
Darko

Done

[Kblaze8855]

Wire is probably the GOAT but I have Breaking bad/Better call Saul(one show from different points of view to me), and the sopranos as reasonable picks. It’s my top 3 at the moment with a few that sneak in now and then.

They just couldn’t get enough eyes on something like that back then. If I had Bezos money I buy an entire Super Bowl ad break for this scene and consider it money well spent just to get people to think about what tv could be.


https://youtu.be/0YrWiwUM3FA

Dont need a shootout and jump cuts or dramatic music. Just a man talking for a minute. Let the people bored by that go back to NCIS.

[ShawkFactory]

I'm not rich like you guys. When we started having kids that cable package had to be basic.

It's on amazon and HBO. Just use someone else's account :lol

[Kblaze8855]

I'm not rich like you guys. When we started having kids that cable package had to be basic.


**** them 12 dollars. **** them picks too while we’re at it. Win now.

[Kblaze8855]

It's on amazon and HBO. Just use someone else's account :lol


I have the first season on DVD somewhere around here. I’ll send it to him if anybody under 50 still watched DVDs. Well my cousin watching wrestling dvds from the flea market but I think the market has dried up.

[ShawkFactory]

Wire is probably the GOAT but I have Breaking bad/Better call Saul(one show from different points of view to me), and the sopranos as reasonable picks. It’s my top 3 at the moment with a few that sneak in now and then.

They just couldn’t get enough eyes on something like that back then. If I had Bezos money I buy an entire Super Bowl ad break for this scene and consider it money well spent just to get people to think about what tv could be.


https://youtu.be/0YrWiwUM3FA

Dont need a shootout and jump cuts or dramatic music. Just a man talking for a minute. Let the people bored by that go back to NCIS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91CpbRq9Tiw

This is the best scene in television history IMO.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91CpbRq9Tiw

This is the best scene in television history IMO.


https://youtu.be/O5JAlmjXN9c


I read an article by a cop once on the subject of cop shows and they said that scene is the most realistic crime scene investigation in tv history. Classic and almost nothing is said.

[ShawkFactory]

https://youtu.be/O5JAlmjXN9c


I read an article by a cop once on the subject of cop shows and they said that scene is the most realistic crime scene investigation in tv history. Classic and almost nothing is said.

Yep. About a year and a half ago I read David Simon's book Homicide: A year on the Killing Streets. The Not only are the scenes realistic but the characters in general just exist.

Read it if you haven't already.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's on amazon and HBO. Just use someone else's account :lol

I have prime. Still probably won't watch it though. Kids eat up time as well as my money.

[ShawkFactory]

I have prime. Still probably won't watch it though. Kids eat up time as well as my money.

Ok well we've already decided that money isn't the issue :lol

You're missing out.

[SouBeachTalents]

SPOILERS in this post

What are your guys thoughts on the last season? I've got to be honest, I felt like it was a clear drop off from the previous 4. The McNulty fake serial killer subplot always felt out of place to me, and reached near sitcom levels, and the newspaper story was frankly uninteresting, and didn't come close to reaching the critical real life issues that the previous seasons did.

Don't get it twisted, it's still high quality, this isn't a GOT situation lol, but I remember feeling kind of let down by that season when I finished the show. Though I think the fact it followed season 4, literally one of the greatest seasons of television ever, played a role in me feeling that way. Also, how do you guys rank the 5 seasons?

[Kblaze8855]

I understand Why they have to cover the newspaper because it was a show made by newspaper people who knew it was one of the aspects of the cities behind the scenes workings. They went streets, docks, government, schools, and media corruption so I get that…but I agree it was weak.

And it didn’t grow on me like season 2. You know BET used to air season 2 and edit out the dock plot as if the white people didn’t belong? Craziest shit. They would edit the shows down to fit in an hour with commercials and the cuts would always be some white people on the dock scene.

You go back and watch it other than ziggy(the jar jar binks of the wire) it was a great season.

Prez with the Ties that Bind opening showing the whole city running off the docks was solid.

[Bawkish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91CpbRq9Tiw

This is the best scene in television history IMO.

Only one word used for the entire scene


https://youtu.be/B2jaD5512MI

[ShawkFactory]

SPOILERS in this post

What are your guys thoughts on the last season? I've got to be honest, I felt like it was a clear drop off from the previous 4. The McNulty fake serial killer subplot always felt out of place to me, and reached near sitcom levels, and the newspaper story was frankly uninteresting, and didn't come close to reaching the critical real life issues that the previous seasons did.

Don't get it twisted, it's still high quality, this isn't a GOT situation lol, but I remember feeling kind of let down by that season when I finished the show. Though I think the fact it followed season 4, literally one of the greatest seasons of television ever, played a role in me feeling that way. Also, how do you guys rank the 5 seasons?

I think the only reason season 5 was slightly less quality is because of 2 things that were out of character (not just the McNulty fake serial killer plot but more importantly Lester going along with it), but also because it was only 10 episodes instead of 13. The extra 3 hours gave a lot more time to draw things out in the way the previous 4 seasons were.

Season 4 was so devastating and there was no way you can match that. But season 5 had a lot of great aspects. The Omar vs Marlo plot was high quality televison.

[ShawkFactory]

I understand Why they have to cover the newspaper because it was a show made by newspaper people who knew it was one of the aspects of the cities behind the scenes workings. They went streets, docks, government, schools, and media corruption so I get that…but I agree it was weak.

And it didn’t grow on me like season 2. You know BET used to air season 2 and edit out the dock plot as if the white people didn’t belong? Craziest shit. They would edit the shows down to fit in an hour with commercials and the cuts would always be some white people on the dock scene.

You go back and watch it other than ziggy(the jar jar binks of the wire) it was a great season.

Prez with the Ties that Bind opening showing the whole city running off the docks was solid.

Upon second watch season 2 might be my favorite.

[SouBeachTalents]

I understand Why they have to cover the newspaper because it was a show made by newspaper people who knew it was one of the aspects of the cities behind the scenes workings. They went streets, docks, government, schools, and media corruption so I get that…but I agree it was weak.

And it didn’t grow on me like season 2. You know BET used to air season 2 and edit out the dock plot as if the white people didn’t belong? Craziest shit. They would edit the shows down to fit in an hour with commercials and the cuts would always be some white people on the dock scene.

You go back and watch it other than ziggy(the jar jar binks of the wire) it was a great season.

Prez with the Ties that Bind opening showing the whole city running off the docks was solid.
:roll:

Season 2 is by far the most polarized season of the show. I see it ranked as both the best season of the show by some and the worst by others, with very little moderation in between. Me, I just might rank it as the shows 2nd best season behind 4.

[Kblaze8855]

I think the only reason season 5 was slightly less quality is because of 2 things that were out of character (not just the McNulty fake serial killer plot but more importantly Lester going along with it), but also because it was only 10 episodes instead of 13. The extra 3 hours gave a lot more time to draw things out in the way the previous 4 seasons were.

Season 4 was so devastating and there was no way you can match that. But season 5 had a lot of great aspects. The Omar vs Marlo plot was high quality televison.


Season four got to me because where I’m from you know those kids. Hell we were those kids. I was somewhere between Randy and Michael. I sold candy out the backpack at one point….and was sitting in a crack house playing Sega at another. I’ve had games of Virtua fighter paused so someone could hand crack out the back bedroom window. Was the most normal thing in the world to me at the time.

I knew kids like Duke too. Guy came up behind me named Lamar but everyone called him Bubba for some reason. Walked with a limp from birth and got disability but we all looked after him a little. I remember we would pitch in to get him some Chinese when we would order and he couldn’t afford it. Just a quiet, humble, honest guy…ended up on drugs bad. Nobody did anything to prevent it. Just kinda…happened. I don’t think he even got to high school. Probably dropped out 7th or 8th grade. Only male I’ve ever seen admit he didn’t learn to drive because he was afraid. What guy admits to a fear like that? He was just so open and down to earth and people thought he was slow but he wasn’t. He just had a mild limp and a sliiiiignt lisp because where we are from childhood issues don’t get fixed. Ended up on heroin.

You don’t see those stories play out on screen but people live them every day.

[Bawkish]

:roll:

Season 2 is by far the most polarized season of the show. I see it ranked as both the best season of the show by some and the worst by others, with very little moderation in between. Me, I just might rank it as the shows 2nd best season behind 4.

i liked Season 3 more than Season 4. The Hamsterdam story arc resonates for me more

[ShawkFactory]

Season four got to me because where I’m from you know those kids. Hell we were those kids. I was somewhere between Randy and Michael. I sold candy out the backpack at one point….and was sitting in a crack house playing Sega at another. I’ve had games of Virtua fighter paused so someone could hand crack out the back bedroom window. Was the most normal thing in the world to me at the time.

I knew kids like Duke too. Guy came up behind me named Lamar but everyone called him Bubba for some reason. Walked with a limp from birth and got disability but we all looked after him a little. I remember we would pitch in to get him some Chinese when we would order and he couldn’t afford it. Just a quiet, humble, honest guy…ended up on drugs bad. Nobody did anything to prevent it. Just kinda…happened. I don’t think he even got to high school. Probably dropped out 7th or 8th grade. Only male I’ve ever seen admit he didn’t learn to drive because he was afraid. What guy admits to a fear like that? He was just so open and down to earth and people thought he was slow but he wasn’t. He just had a mild limp and a sliiiiignt lisp because where we are from childhood issues don’t get fixed. Ended up on heroin.

You don’t see those stories play out on screen but people live them every day.

I believe it man. That’s why season 4 hit everyone so hard.

I grew up in a wealthy suburb of Atlanta but I knew immediately that every single one of those kids was real without having even lived it. How every small decision made either by them or someone near them had such profound effects...oh man. Randy’s story in particular was just too much. “Agent Carver!”

Seeing him briefly in season 5 as a cop-hating borderline criminal after being completely fvcked by no real fault of his own? Yea that shit makes sense. And some people still have the audacity to wonder why some people are angry at the system.

[ShawkFactory]

:roll:

Season 2 is by far the most polarized season of the show. I see it ranked as both the best season of the show by some and the worst by others, with very little moderation in between. Me, I just might rank it as the shows 2nd best season behind 4.

It’s only polarizing because it completely flipped the script and character lineup like I show had ever done before. It’s a masterpiece of a season.

[dankok8]

Jason Kidd as a passer or Hakeem as a defender?

Hakeem.

Jordan as an in game dunker or Reggie as a clutch shooter?

Reggie.

Tim Duncan as a post scorer or Chris Paul as a midrange shooter?

Chris Paul.

Kyrie as a ball handler or Phil Jackson as a coach?

Kyrie. Phil is slightly overrated as a coach. He's not really a master of X and O's or making adjustments on the whim the way some others are. He's great at managing personalities though.

Whitney Houston as a female vocalist or Steph Curry as a shooter in general?

Curry. Whitney is probably the GOAT female vocalist but it can be debated while Curry is the GOAT shooter and there is no debate.

Giannis on the athlete list or Steve Nash on the skills list?

Tie. Too tough to answer.

The wire as a tv drama or Doctor J as a small forward?

Dr J. Never watched the wire. :lol

KAT as a shooting bigman or Kobe as a post scoring wing?

Kobe. Quite a few bigs who shoot better than KAT but very few guards better in the post than Kobe. On second thought this one is bloody close.

Darko as a bust or Jokic as an expectation exceeder?

Jokic. Any draft pick can be a bust but nobody and I mean nobody thought Jokic would be this good.

[Kblaze8855]

Ive seen a few people say a number of bigs are better shooters than KAT and I’m just wondering who they mean. Dirk comes to mind though he wasn’t an outside shooter as much as people think but who are the others?

Kat had a 5 year run as a 7 footer doing 42, 40, 41, 39, and 41 from 3 and he takes a lot. He takes stepbacks off the dribble. He won the 3 point contest…..



https://youtu.be/aWKltnSC_oY



But there are quite a few better?

Who am I forgetting?

[dankok8]

Ive seen a few people say a number of bigs are better shooters than KAT and I’m just wondering who they mean. Dirk comes to mind though he wasn’t an outside shooter as much as people think but who are the others?

Kat had a 5 year run as a 7 footer doing 42, 40, 41, 39, and 41 from 3 and he takes a lot. He takes stepbacks off the dribble. He won the 3 point contest…..



https://youtu.be/aWKltnSC_oY



But there are quite a few better?

Who am I forgetting?

I'd say Dirk, Durant and McAdoo are all better shooters as bigs but yea like I said it's tough. KAT is a really really good shooter. To be fair I haven't watched more than 4-5 games of him so I'm going more off of stats here. Wolves unfortunately just haven't been on my watch list for years. And yes I realize KD isn't really a traditional big in how he plays but he is 6'11''.

[Kblaze8855]

They are elite midrange obviously. KAT for his career actually shoots better from 3 than Durant on similar(slightly less) attempts and better than Dirk on more attempts. Plus including Durant is almost like calling Tmac an all time shooting big because he was the same height as a lot of great centers.

Among non wings I’m not sure who is a better shooter than KAT. Dirk for his unbelievable tough shot making but he’s probably the only obvious one and like I said he didn’t actually shoot much outside. He shot less threes than Giannis does most of his prime.

Jokic and Okur might justify a mention too but that’s without checking numbers. Brook Lopez too.

[dankok8]

They are elite midrange obviously. KAT for his career actually shoots better from 3 than Durant on similar(slightly less) attempts and better than Dirk on more attempts. Plus including Durant is almost like calling Tmac an all time shooting big because he was the same height as a lot of great centers.

Among non wings I’m not sure who is a better shooter than KAT. Dirk for his unbelievable tough shot making but he’s probably the only obvious one and like I said he didn’t actually shoot much outside. He shot less threes than Giannis does most of his prime.

Jokic and Okur might justify a mention too but that’s without checking numbers. Brook Lopez too.

I'd say shooting includes midrange, 3pt and free throws. KAT is definitely elite. No argument from me there.

However as unfair as it may be, he hasn't proven it in the playoffs the way Dirk and KD have. That's why I'd take them above KAT for now.

[Kblaze8855]

They are obviously better players which “Well do it in the playoffs….” factors into but playoff accomplishments don’t really determine best shooter. Drazen Petrovic never did anything in the playoffs but…you know?

And KD still feels weird to me. Like if I ask you who the best passing bigs are and you tell me Ben Simmons and Magic. Yea Ben is 6’10” but it just doesn’t feel like what I’m asking.

[dankok8]

I know what you mean about how it's weird including KD but still. Even Dirk isn't a traditional big in the way he plays. How about Embiid? He's gotta be in the conversation too. His % are worse but he also takes a very high volume of jumpers.

[Kblaze8855]

Dirk was more traditional than I think we felt at the time. We were amazed he was shooting a “lot” of threes but it was like 3 a game. He mostly took a bunch of the same kinda down screen midrange jumpers Willis Reed, Bob Mcadoo, and Jerry Lucas were doing 50 years ago:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BreakableDiligentAngwantibo-size_restricted.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

I am probably guilty of it but I think we are generally holding Towns reputation for softness against him even though that had nothing to do with shooting ability. I am probably guilty of it myself. But my position isn't changing.


Edited for stupid wierd swype

[Kblaze8855]

Well of course he’s soft and I wouldn’t want him as my franchise player. I’m not team KAT I’m just saying the guy can shoot. A 7 footer winning the nba 3 point contest is something. Guy can shoot. That said…this picture always brings me a smile








https://www.hostpic.org/images/2211242232230331.png

[Phoenix]

Dirk kinda came along about 10 years too late, even though he's obviously a top 20-25ish player. He'd be out there taking 6 threes a night in 2022, think he'd fall under 'he'd be even better today' even though he's obviously great in his era.

[SaltyMeatballs]

Jason Kidd as a passer or Hakeem as a defender?
Hakeem

Jordan as an in game dunker or Reggie as a clutch shooter?
Reggie

Tim Duncan as a post scorer or Chris Paul as a midrange shooter?
Duncan

Kyrie as a ball handler or Phil Jackson as a coach?
Phil Jackson

Whitney Houston as a female vocalist or Steph Curry as a shooter in general?
Curry is the undisputable GOAT shooter. Whitney is ONE OF the greatest female vocalists but there's no consensus on who the GOAT is.

Giannis on the athlete list or Steve Nash on the skills list?
Giannis

The wire as a tv drama or Doctor J as a small forward?
The Wire

KAT as a shooting bigman or Kobe as a post scoring wing?
Kobe

Darko as a bust or Jokic as an expectation exceeder?
Jokic

[SaltyMeatballs]

Hakeem

Jordan

Duncan

Jackson

Curry (I think there are way better vocalists than Whitney)

Giannis/Nash tie

The Wire

KAT

Jokic

"Way" better? That's a reach man

[Kblaze8855]

If the public voted on a top 20 living female singers and those singers themselves were polled I think Whitney and Aretha might get every single vote for the goat.

Whitney is probably close to consensus like Jordan. As in not really but the most common answer. You could say Steph is closer to consensus than she is. I don’t see an argument for anyone being way better than Whitney though.

[dankok8]

If the public voted on a top 20 living female singers and those singers themselves were polled I think Whitney and Aretha might get every single vote for the goat.

Whitney is probably close to consensus like Jordan. As in not really but the most common answer. You could say Steph is closer to consensus than she is. I don’t see an argument for anyone being way better than Whitney though.

Whitney isn't living. :(

In my book, Celine Dion is also a GOAT-level vocalist.

[Kblaze8855]

I mentioned the top 20 living because you could then ask those 20 who they would list as the greatest. I think Whitney would win that vote.