1990 Patrick Ewing vs. current Joel Embiid

[dankok8]

This was peak Ewing before he started losing steam because of injuries and settling for jumpers. He had an insane motor in 1990, dominated down low and crushed it on both ends of the floor. Very underrated season in an all-time sense. But then Embiid this and last season is also dominating.

Who would you rather have at their best?

I'm leaning 1990 Ewing because he was better defensively and offensively it's close. Embiid is a better scorer in the regular season but then drops off in the playoffs while Ewing kept it up.

[WhiteKyrie]

Embiid is built like wet tissue paper but more talented

[Round Mound]

Ewing

[3ba11]

Ewing had real power and strength, which is he had a 10-year stretch where he played nearly every regular season game (78-82 games from 88-97')

Ewing also had polished go-to moves that he could rely on in tight games, while Embiid isn't as settled on how he's going to help himself when it matters

[Full Court]

It's really close. I'm tempted to say Ewing just based on Embiid's flopping.

[Mask the Embiid]

Ewing got booed by his fan when he shot midranges… embiid gets cheered by his when he shoot’s midranges. There is a theory that the Knicks were better without Ewing. No one on planet earth has ever said the sixers are better without embiid… even for 1 game no one has ever said “wow they would of loss that game if embiid played”…. Everyone knows embiid is better than Patrick Ewing…. Everyone would take embiid over Patrick Ewing, outside of ppl who just dislike him



Now if u said embiid was a Rich man’s Ewing you would of had a good point

[Airupthere]

Ewing. Never cried like a baby.

[HoopsNY]

Ewing got booed by his fan when he shot midranges… embiid gets cheered by his when he shoot’s midranges. There is a theory that the Knicks were better without Ewing. No one on planet earth has ever said the sixers are better without embiid… even for 1 game no one has ever said “wow they would of loss that game if embiid played….



Now if u said embiid was a Rich man’s Ewing you would of had a good point

Whose theory is that? No way were the Knicks better without Ewing, and it showed greatly in the '98 season when he injured his wrist against Milwaukee. Their defense really fell apart in his absence. But before that, he wasn't injured that much.

[WhiteKyrie]

Whose theory is that? No way were the Knicks better without Ewing, and it showed greatly in the '98 season when he injured his wrist against Milwaukee. Their defense really fell apart in his absence. But before that, he wasn't injured that much.

It’s a stupid ass Bill Simmons theory.

[HoopsNY]

It’s a stupid ass Bill Simmons theory.

I'm not aware of Simmons' theory, care to tell?

[1987_Lakers]

Probably Embiid.

Both were on a similar level, Embiid was the better scorer in my eyes while Ewing has the edge on the defensive end, but not by much.

Reason why I went with Embiid is because he provides a bit more versatility, he's a better passer than Ewing & a better rebounder as well.

[SATAN]

This was peak Ewing before he started losing steam because of injuries and settling for jumpers. He had an insane motor in 1990, dominated down low and crushed it on both ends of the floor. Very underrated season in an all-time sense. But then Embiid this and last season is also dominating.

Who would you rather have at their best?



I would answer but you deliberately filter out my picks anyway.

[1987_Lakers]

I would answer but you deliberately filter out my picks anyway.

:oldlol:

[HoopsNY]

Probably Embiid.

Both were on a similar level, Embiid was the better scorer in my eyes while Ewing has the edge on the defensive end, but not by much.

Reason why I went with Embiid is because he provides a bit more versatility, he's a better passer than Ewing & a better rebounder as well.

Ewing was a far better defensive player and just as good of a rebounder. Embiid averages a little bit more but the league has had a higher pace and is a jump-shooting league that doesn't require the same paint presence as it did during the Ewing's peak/prime.

[1987_Lakers]

Ewing was a far better defensive player and just as good of a rebounder. Embiid averages a little bit more but the league has had a higher pace and is a jump-shooting league that doesn't require the same paint presence as it did during the Ewing's peak/prime.

Ewing averaged 38.6 mpg in '90 and averaged 11 rpg. Knicks played at a 98.2 pace

Embiid last season averaged 34 mpg and averaged close to 12 rpg. Sixers played at a 96.2 pace

So Embiid has averaged less minutes, but still managed to grab more rebounds. Pace isn't that much different either.

[HoopsNY]

Ewing averaged 38.6 mpg in '90 and averaged 11 rpg. Knicks played at a 98.2 pace

Embiid last season averaged 34 mpg and averaged close to 12 rpg. Sixers played at a 96.2 pace

So Embiid has averaged less minutes, but still managed to grab more rebounds. Pace isn't that much different either.

Yea if you isolate 1990; but I'd still argue that the paint was a fight fest more back then than it was last season.

[1987_Lakers]

Ewing was never really a strong rebounder. Really weird how he never cracked over 10 rpg in the 80's. And the 80's had some very fast pace basketball.

Ewing from '88-'94 averaged 10.6 rpg in 37 mpg, not bad per say, but you would expect more.

Embiid for his career has averaged 11.3 rpg in only 31 mpg.

[Spuddywebby]

I think the proper way to frame the question is, how would Ewing, with the same skill set, look today going against the likes of Kelly Olynik, Nick Claxton, Mo Bamba, Isaiah Stewart, Grant Willams etc. and how would Embiid look back in the 90’s going against Shaq, Brad Dougherty, Hakeem, Motumbo, Robinson, Mourning etc.

[Avinash]

Patrick Ewing, not even close.

[FKAri]

I think the proper way to frame the question is, how would Ewing, with the same skill set, look today going against the likes of Kelly Olynik, Nick Claxton, Mo Bamba, Isaiah Stewart, Grant Willams etc. and how would Embiid look back in the 90’s going against Shaq, Brad Dougherty, Hakeem, Motumbo, Robinson, Mourning etc.

Embiid would have more success in the 90s than he does today. Bigs are playing with handcuffs in today's era. So this is a useless argument. Not to mention that there would be far less wear and tear on his joints playing in the 90s without having to cover space as frequently. This is why the modern big man is always getting hurt. And it's why durability can't be compared either.

I'd lean Embiid in picking between the two but it's tough to compare because the 90s bigs had it easy whereas the big man is stifled in today's game. How much is hard to day. The situation is the exact opposite of small, quick guards. For them today's game is much easier.

[Reggie43]

Ewing theory only applied in 99 not his whole career lol

[Spuddywebby]

Embiid would have more success in the 90s than he does today. Bigs are playing with handcuffs in today's era. So this is a useless argument. Not to mention that there would be far less wear and tear on his joints playing in the 90s without having to cover space as frequently. This is why the modern big man is always getting hurt. And it's why durability can't be compared either.

I'd lean Embiid in picking between the two but it's tough to compare because the 90s bigs had it easy whereas the big man is stifled in today's game. How much is hard to day. The situation is the exact opposite of small, quick guards. For them today's game is much easier.

Your first two sentences contradict each other. If bigs are handcuffed today, then a back to the basket player should feast with all the spacing/ lack of hard double/triple teams, making it easier to score. Previously, the minute Shaq/Hakeem/Ewing got the ball, they were swarmed, there was no worry/defense for 4 guys being behind the 3 point line. One of Embiid biggest weakness is turning the ball over when he does get doubled. I mean when was the last time Embiid had to guard someone banging at him for a whole game or score against a physical big body center?

Anyway, wake me up when Embiid takes his team past the second round of the playoffs.

And in terms far less wear and tear, not sure that running around to cover the 3 point line is harder on your body then have a Shaq bang his 300 pound body against yours for 30 minutes.

[Avinash]

Ewing carried his team to the finals

[PeroAntic]

Embiid is better. He would never miss that layup. Embiid would be the best center ever if hes not so brittle physically and less of a bitch.

[GimmeThat]

you'd have to make the court even bigger again in order for Ewing's jump shot to hold any water

[FKAri]

Your first two sentences contradict each other. If bigs are handcuffed today, then a back to the basket player should feast with all the spacing/ lack of hard double/triple teams, making it easier to score. Previously, the minute Shaq/Hakeem/Ewing got the ball, they were swarmed, there was no worry/defense for 4 guys being behind the 3 point line. One of Embiid biggest weakness is turning the ball over when he does get doubled. I mean when was the last time Embiid had to guard someone banging at him for a whole game or score against a physical big body center?

Anyway, wake me up when Embiid takes his team past the second round of the playoffs.

Feast? I don't think this needs to be explained and is well established at this point. It's much harder and less useful to be in the post today than in 1992. But anyways, zone creates problems with posting up since the help defenders don't have to commit. They can hover so it's never an easy choice between taking it to the basket or passing it out like it used to be. Your big needs to be a better decision maker and floor reader than in the past to navigate these scenarios. And most bigs are shit decision makers.

That's not to mention how attractive it is to just face up against a defender with the current rules. Which is why the makeup of the big man has changed. If you want you could argue that the pendulum has swung too far the other way to where the post is underutilized and underrated but it's definitely harder to utilize than it used to be.


And in terms far less wear and tear, not sure that running around to cover the 3 point line is harder on your body then have a Shaq bang his 300 pound body against yours for 30 minutes.
It's not about wear and tear. It's about injury risk. You don't get hurt banging bodies as much as you do running, jumping, and twisting at 270lbs. You may get more tired but that doesn't matter when these guys are drugged up for stamina nowadays.

[RRR3]

Embiid. Nostalgia stans fuming.

[Micku]

Ewing got booed by his fan when he shot midranges… embiid gets cheered by his when he shoot’s midranges. There is a theory that the Knicks were better without Ewing. No one on planet earth has ever said the sixers are better without embiid… even for 1 game no one has ever said “wow they would of loss that game if embiid played”…. Everyone knows embiid is better than Patrick Ewing…. Everyone would take embiid over Patrick Ewing, outside of ppl who just dislike him



Now if u said embiid was a Rich man’s Ewing you would of had a good point

That's what I feel too. Although it's not a blow away or anything. I feel like if Ewing played in this era, they would stretch him to the 3pt line and his presence on the defensive end would be impactful just like how it was with the Knicks. Ewing might've been better now than he was back then.

They are similar, but Embiid has more moves, is a better scorer, a better rebounder and is a better passer. He is better at drawing (flopping) fouls and he shoots better than Ewing did at the line.

Ewing is more durable. You could argue intangibles or whatever. Defense you could argue. Ewing defense might be underappreciated, and you could probably argue that Ewing was more impactful in his era compared to Embiid in his era with defense, but I think it's a wash between him and Embiid.

But I think Embiid has more offensive skills and is the better talent, it's just he is injury prone.

[GimmeThat]

the subject matter is quite simple: if you can always be on the counter attack, would you play any defense

[HoopsNY]

Embiid. Nostalgia stans fuming.

How is it nostalgia? Ewing could bring almost the same offense as Embiid and was a much better defensive threat. Even in 1998 when Ewing went down, the Knicks went from being the best defensive team in the league to 9th in the league.

[HoopsNY]

Ewing was never really a strong rebounder. Really weird how he never cracked over 10 rpg in the 80's. And the 80's had some very fast pace basketball.

Ewing from '88-'94 averaged 10.6 rpg in 37 mpg, not bad per say, but you would expect more.

Embiid for his career has averaged 11.3 rpg in only 31 mpg.

It goes back to my earlier point. The paint was a dog fight back then and it was more than likely cluttered. Remember, teams were barely shooting the three back then and so you had much more slashing, post ups, etc. And it wasn't uncommon to have a PF teammate who also shared defensive rebounding responsibilities.

'89-'97 Ewing: 10.9 RBPG
'89-'97 Oakley: 10.1 RBPG

In '87 and '88 with Chicago, Oakley averaged 13+ RBPG. Between '89-'95, Ewing averaged nearly 12.5 RBPG without Oakley, and that was over 57 games. Who has Embiid had at the 4 to share a rebounding/defensive load with?

[RRR3]

How is it nostalgia? Ewing could bring almost the same offense as Embiid and was a much better defensive threat. Even in 1998 when Ewing went down, the Knicks went from being the best defensive team in the league to 9th in the league.
They’re not similar on offense, Embiid just led the NBA in scoring with a TS 5% above league average. That’s all time great. Ewing never scored at that level. And Embiid is scoring even better this year. He also gets more assists. And Embiid is a great defender his defensive impact stats are massive. He’s been all defense multiple times, you’re acting like Ewing was Bill Russell.

[GimmeThat]

How is it nostalgia? Ewing could bring almost the same offense as Embiid and was a much better defensive threat. Even in 1998 when Ewing went down, the Knicks went from being the best defensive team in the league to 9th in the league.

that'd be 2 MVPs over Karl Malone. Literally.

[HoopsNY]

They’re not similar on offense, Embiid just led the NBA in scoring with a TS 5% above league average. That’s all time great. Ewing never scored at that level. And Embiid is scoring even better this year. He also gets more assists. And Embiid is a great defender his defensive impact stats are massive. He’s been all defense multiple times, you’re acting like Ewing was Bill Russell.

What are you factoring into that equation? Embiid's career TS% is .601% compared to the league .563%. That's a difference of +3.8% about. Using 2019-2023 numbers, it's higher at +4.4%.

Ewing from '88-'93, his rTS% is about +4.1%. So the difference is minimal. If we expand the spread from '88-'95, it's +3.5%.

Embiid has won 3 All-Defensive 2nd Team awards. Who is he competing with at the C position that's really a consistent threat other than Gobert? Ewing had Eaton, Mutombo, Robinson, and Hakeem in the league at the same time.

Nothing to do with nostalgia. You're just overrating modern players as usual without offering any additional context to the situation.

[RRR3]

What are you factoring into that equation? Embiid's career TS% is .601% compared to the league .563%. That's a difference of +3.8% about. Using 2019-2023 numbers, it's higher at +4.4%.

Ewing from '88-'93, his rTS% is about +4.1%. So the difference is minimal. If we expand the spread from '88-'95, it's +3.5%.

Embiid has won 3 All-Defensive 2nd Team awards. Who is he competing with at the C position that's really a consistent threat other than Gobert? Ewing had Eaton, Mutombo, Robinson, and Hakeem in the league at the same time.

Nothing to do with nostalgia. You're just overrating modern players as usual without offering any additional context to the situation.
Why are you using career for Embiid, he’s been improving for a while? You think Gobert is the only great defensive center? What? Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo, Al Horford, Robert Williams, Clint Capela, Brook Lopez, Jarrett Allen, Myles Tunrer are all great defenders. Bam is the best center I’ve ever seen at perimeter defense in fact.

The most Ewing scored per 100 possessions is 36.1 points. Embiid is at 40.5 for his career and was at 45.1 last year. And he’s more efficient and gets assists at a much higher rate. He is on a different tier than Ewing offensively. Embiid is legitimately one of the best scorers ever at his position.

[HoopsNY]

Why are you using career for Embiid, he’s been improving for a while? You think Gobert is the only great defensive center? What? Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo, Al Horford, Robert Williams, Clint Capela, Brook Lopez, Jarrett Allen, Myles Tunrer are all great defenders. Bam is the best center I’ve ever seen at perimeter defense in fact.

The most Ewing scored per 100 possessions is 36.1 points. Embiid is at 40.5 for his career and was at 45.1 last year. And he’s more efficient and gets assists at a much higher rate. He is on a different tier than Ewing offensively. Embiid is legitimately one of the best scorers ever at his position.

Did I not say that 2019-2023, his rTS% is +4.4%? That compares with Ewing's peak years at +4.1%.

Sorry, but Bam has exactly 1 season with more than 64 starts in a season. And miss me with Lopez, Horford, and Turner. You're seriously comparing these guys to the likes of Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo, and David Robinson?

Of course Embiid's scoring is more impressive. This is a free for all league.

We can agree to disagree, but comparing the defensive bigs from Ewing's era to those now is a joke.

[RRR3]

Horford is much more valuable defensively in today’s era than Mutombo would be, you have to remember how the game is played now. The pace and space era absolutely makes a guy of Horfords qualities one of the most valuable defenders. Bam has played during two shortened seasons, so not really saying much. Relative TS% being similar doesn’t mean much when we’re comparing Ewing to a guy who scores almost 10 points higher per 100 possessions! :lol. Ewing’s efficiency was also hideous in the postseason while Embiids is not. Embiid’s scoring stats are close to MJ’s than Ewing’s. He is easily one of the best scorers ever.

[HoopsNY]

Not to mention, Embiid is averaging a massive 48.5 games played per year since he joined the league. You might say 2020 and 2021 were limited, but he missed about 30% of the games in those years, too. :lol

[RRR3]

Not to mention, Embiid is averaging a massive 48.5 games played per year since he joined the league. You might say 2020 and 2021 were limited, but he missed about 30% of the games in those years, too. :lol
We weren’t discussing who’s more durable. By this logic Robert Parish was better than Bill Walton

[RRR3]

There are only a handful of centers ever I’d say were as good or better than Embiid on offense. One of them, Jokic, happens to play in the league right now, unfortunately for Embiid. I think Jokic is pretty clearly the greatest offensive center in NBA history at this point, so not really a knock on Embiid. And then of course you have Shaq, Kareem, Wilt and Hakeem. Robinson in the regular season as well but he often struggled in the playoffs on offense. Maybe Bob McAdoo at his best idk. I’m giving Hakeem a lot of credit here for playoff performances iirc Embiid is clearly better offensively in the regular season but Hakeem often elevated his play in postseason so gotta include him.

[HoopsNY]

There are only a handful of centers ever I’d say were as good or better than Embiid on offense. One of them, Jokic, happens to play in the league right now, unfortunately for Embiid. I think Jokic is pretty clearly the greatest offensive center in NBA history at this point, so not really a knock on Embiid. And then of course you have Shaq, Kareem, Wilt and Hakeem. Robinson in the regular season as well but he often struggled in the playoffs on offense. Maybe Bob McAdoo at his best idk. I’m giving Hakeem a lot of credit here for playoff performances iirc Embiid is clearly better offensively in the regular season but Hakeem often elevated his play in postseason so gotta include him.

Embiid's rTS% is +1.8% during that stretch. Ewing's was -1.2%. Is it better? Sure. Is it miles apart? Embiid is better offensively, but Ewing is better defensively. But the gap between Embiid and Ewing on offense isn't as big as Ewing and Embiid on defense. These two are closer than you'd like to admit.

[RRR3]

Embiid's rTS% is +1.8% during that stretch. Ewing's was -1.2%. Is it better? Sure. Is it miles apart? Embiid is better offensively, but Ewing is better defensively. But the gap between Embiid and Ewing on offense isn't as big as Ewing and Embiid on defense. These two are closer than you'd like to admit.
Impact stats show Embiid is one of the best defenders in the league though so your claim isn’t supported by anything. And +3 in TS% isn’t a small edge that’s about the difference between MJ and Dominique Wilkins in terms of efficiency.

[HoopsNY]

Impact stats show Embiid is one of the best defenders in the league though so your claim isn’t supported by anything. And +3 in TS% isn’t a small edge that’s about the difference between MJ and Dominique Wilkins in terms of efficiency.

Fair point. It's a feather in his cap. Though the RS numbers aren't as glaring as you originally made it out to be. You're also not wrong about Embiid's impact on the Sixers defensively, but Ewing's was greater if you look at his sample.

[GimmeThat]

Of course Embiid's scoring is more impressive. This is a free for all league.

We can agree to disagree, but comparing the defensive bigs from Ewing's era to those now is a joke.

comparing an era where players opinions should be dismissed by the owner to the current era would indeed, be a complete joke

[RRR3]

Fair point. It's a feather in his cap. Though the RS numbers aren't as glaring as you originally made it out to be. You're also not wrong about Embiid's impact on the Sixers defensively, but Ewing's was greater if you look at his sample.
Well we don’t have impact for Ewing’s prime years unfortunately but I wouldn’t be surprised I know how good he was at defense. You also have to remember a lot of Embiid’s potential defensive impact is neutered by the way the league is. Can you imagine if he could camp out under the basket? If centers were still allowed to do that, there would be way more old school bigs playing still. Also imagine if perimeter players weren’t protected heavily by BS rules and officiating? People would have to go in the paint more when games got tight, which would also be to a rim protector like Embiid’s advantage. On the other hand someone like David Robinson would probably be even better in today’s era if what I’ve heard about him is true. I’d like to see what young peak athletic Shaq could do with 4 elite shooters on offense as well he would literally be a 7’1 Zion Williamson which is obviously GOAT level.

[HoopsNY]

Impact stats show Embiid is one of the best defenders in the league though so your claim isn’t supported by anything. And +3 in TS% isn’t a small edge that’s about the difference between MJ and Dominique Wilkins in terms of efficiency.

Actually, looking back at it, what are you using for this?

PS Nique's rTS% '86-'93: -2.6%

PS Jordan's rTS%: '86-'93: +4.5%

The difference here is immense.

[HoopsNY]

Well we don’t have impact for Ewing’s prime years unfortunately but I wouldn’t be surprised I know how good he was at defense. You also have to remember a lot of Embiid’s potential defensive impact is neutered by the way the league is. Can you imagine if he could camp out under the basket? If centers were still allowed to do that, there would be way more old school bigs playing still. Also imagine if perimeter players weren’t protected heavily by BS rules and officiating? People would have to go in the paint more when games got tight, which would also be to a rim protector like Embiid’s advantage. On the other hand someone like David Robinson would probably be even better in today’s era if what I’ve heard about him is true. I’d like to see what young peak athletic Shaq could do with 4 elite shooters on offense as well he would literally be a 7’1 Zion Williamson which is obviously GOAT level.

We do have impact stats. Look at Ewing's first two seasons:

NYK w/Ewing 1986-87: 107.2 DRTG
NYK w/o Ewing 1986-'87 111.8 DRTG

Net Rating: +4.6

Then he was pretty healthy every year until 1998:

NYK '98 w/Ewing: 96.1 DRTG
NYK '98 w/o Ewing: 103.3 DRTG

Net Rating: +7.2

PHI w/Embiid: 108.6 DRtG
PHI w/o Embiid: 111.2 DRTG

Net Rating: +2.6

[RRR3]

Actually, looking back at it, what are you using for this?

PS Nique's rTS% '86-'93: -2.6%

PS Jordan's rTS%: '86-'93: +4.5%

The difference here is immense.
I didn’t realize Nique was that (relatively) bad in the playoffs damn. Although MJ is historically notable for how little the playoffs affected his scoring, so not necessarily an indictment of Nique. Was using career TS% from regular season if you’re curious.

[RRR3]

We do have impact stats. Look at Ewing's first two seasons:

NYK w/Ewing 1986-87: 107.2 DRTG
NYK w/o Ewing 1986-'87 111.8 DRTG

Net Rating: +4.6

Then he was pretty healthy every year until 1998:

NYK '98 w/Ewing: 96.1 DRTG
NYK '98 w/o Ewing: 103.3 DRTG

Net Rating: +7.2

PHI w/Embiid: 108.6 DRtG
PHI w/o Embiid: 111.2 DRTG

Net Rating: +2.6
Those aren’t what I meant by impact stats, DRTG is dependent on who you play with and factors outside of your control as well. Stats like EPM, RAPM, and RAPTOR attempt to correct for this. I really wish all these stats were on basketball reference it’s very irritating that they aren’t. Also like I’ve said Embiid isn’t allowed to be as impactful defensively as he could be.

[RRR3]

Embiid is consistently about top 5-10 in the league in defensive RAPTOR for what it’s worth.

[HoopsNY]

I didn’t realize Nique was that (relatively) bad in the playoffs damn. Although MJ is historically notable for how little the playoffs affected his scoring, so not necessarily an indictment of Nique. Was using career TS% from regular season if you’re curious.

No worries. I'm just saying, you have a point about the playoffs. For that, we have to give Embiid the benefit of the doubt. I just don't think the two are miles apart offensively. Miles apart would be Embiid and Brad Daughtery, who was pretty good offensively. Perhaps it's just the way we're defining things.

However, defensively, Ewing never gets the credit he deserves because he played in an era that had a lot of great defensive players, let alone great defensive bigs. He gets overshadowed when you only see 3x All-Defensive selections.

The Knicks as a team were the best defensive team for most of the '90s and that was mostly because of Ewing. Of course, having Oakley, Harper, and Starks certainly helps. But that got exposed in '98 when Ewing went down. The Knicks had Ward, Starks, and Oakley and were nowhere near the defensive team without Ewing as they were with him.

[HoopsNY]

Those aren’t what I meant by impact stats, DRTG is dependent on who you play with and factors outside of your control as well. Stats like EPM, RAPM, and RAPTOR attempt to correct for this. I really wish all these stats were on basketball reference it’s very irritating that they aren’t. Also like I’ve said Embiid isn’t allowed to be as impactful defensively as he could be.

I'm not as privy to those metrics. I think DRTG for a team is pretty useful though because it shows the outcomes with or without a player. In this case, Ewing's impact can't be ignored.

[RRR3]

Speaking of Daugherty, I wonder how much his scoring could have scaled up. He never even got to 30 points per 100 possessions (29.9 at his best), but his peak efficiency was truly astounding for his time. +9.8 and +9.9 rTS% in 92 and 93 regular seasons. I imagine he could have shot a fair amount more without hurting his team.

[HoopsNY]

Embiid is consistently about top 5-10 in the league in defensive RAPTOR for what it’s worth.

For what it's worth, in 1997, Ewing was 5th in the league in DRAPM, and that was the tail end of his prime.

[RRR3]

I'm not as privy to those metrics. I think DRTG for a team is pretty useful though because it shows the outcomes with or without a player. In this case, Ewing's impact can't be ignored.
RAPTOR can be accessed here: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ Only goes back to 2013-14, sadly

LEBRON can be accessed here: https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/ I'm having trouble getting this one to work on my computer but it goes back to at least 2009-10

RAPM can be accessed here: https://basketball-analytics.gitlab.io/rapm-data/ No data is available after 2018-19, but on the other hand it goes back much farther, all the way to 2016-17, so you can see the impact stats of some of the best players of the 90s, albeit many past their peak. Still it's probably a good enough tool for analyzing Karl Malone, Mourning, Shaq, Jason Kidd, Grant Hill and Gary Payton, amongst other 90s stars, as I believe they peaked in 96-97 or later.

EPM can be accessed here: https://dunksandthrees.com/epm It is only available for the current season unless you pay for more, sadly. But I heard at least one person say it's the most accurate stat currently available.


Keep in mind that these stats don't flat out tell you who's better, you have to think of it as comparing how good each player is at their role. Which is why you might often see a guy like Mikal Bridges ranked very highly, because they excel at their particular role. It is not saying that Mikal Bridges is a star, it is simply saying he is amazing at being a 3 and D wing. I'm not even sure these stats love Mikal Bridges, but I assume they do because of the way he plays. BPM on basketball-reference is a box score metric, and while I find it ok enough for analyzing offense, it's defensive analysis can be completely ignored.


PS-I did not include RPM because the consensus seems to be that the formula has been messed up and it is not a reliable data source anymore. I do not know of a way to access the old formula's data, which was more highly regarded.

[RRR3]

I really don't study these stats as much as I should, or at least I don't remember them to the degree I do other stats on b-ref. Which is why I'm very frustrated they aren't on b-ref, because that's where I track players production almost daily and have done so for the last decade. In my defense, these impact stats (outside of RPM, which as I've said has been discredited by many with the new formula) have only been made available in the last few years.

[Avinash]

You cant compare stats from 1990 to today.

[TAZORAC]

Embiids ability to shoot the 3 pointer makes him better

[BigShotBob]

Not Ewing's best seasons he was good or better in 88 and 89

Peak Ewing is better than Embiid

Just like Patrick Ewing said before if he was playing today he'd be the MJ of this league. There's not a single player over 6'10 that could stop him playing in the NBA today

[1987_Lakers]

Not Ewing's best seasons he was good or better in 88 and 89

Peak Ewing is better than Embiid

Just like Patrick Ewing said before if he was playing today he'd be the MJ of this league. There's not a single player over 6'10 that could stop him playing in the NBA today

:roll:

[RRR3]

:roll:
Can always count on BigShitSlob to come up with horrendous takes.

[3ba11]

:roll:


Ewing is right and many people agreed with him - today's game is a beginner format of wide open spacing and no physicality, while the bigs are a joke

[1987_Lakers]

Ewing is right and many people agreed with him - today's game is a beginner format of wide open spacing and no physicality, while the bigs are a joke

:roll:

[3ba11]

:roll:


Many people feel that the greats of yesteryear would dominate today's beginner format because we see modern versions running roughshod, aka how would Bird do in today's game?... He would rip up stat sheet like Luka or Jokic - literally getting 33 PER's like them... How would Robinson or Ewing fare in today's game?... See Giannis and Embiid.. How about Hakeem?... there's nothing sufficient in today's game to compare, just like MJ, Kobe and Bird (Jokic and Luka aren't really comparable yet)

[1987_Lakers]

These dummies really think Ewing would be the MJ of this era.

:roll:

[RRR3]

These dummies really think Ewing would be the MJ of this era.

:roll:
Imagine thinking basketball has got worse. It makes zero sense considering how much offensive schemes and skillsets, sports medicine and training has improved.