Top 75 least deserving members

[Red Pill Sports]

You get up to three choices.

[John8204]

Missed the three options but the 10 players I wouldn't rank

Bill Sharrman, Billy Cunningham, Dave Bing, Damian Lillard, Anthony Davis, Dave DeBuscherre, Sam Jones, Russell Westbrook, Lenny Wilkens, and Ray Allen

I would have replaced them with

Adrian Dantley, Alex English, Joe Fulks, Dwight Howard, Dan Issel, Nikola Jokic, Tracy McGrady, Chris Mullin, Dikembe Mutombo, Klay Thompson, Chris Webber

But if you are asking 3 for 3....it's Sharrman, Dame, and Bing and I would replace them with English, Mutombo, and McGrady

[Celtics 1825]

Dame has done absolutely nothing in his career thus far to rank top 75

[L.Kizzle]

Missed the three options but the 10 players I wouldn't rank

Bill Sharrman, Billy Cunningham, Dave Bing, Damian Lillard, Anthony Davis, Dave DeBuscherre, Sam Jones, Russell Westbrook, Lenny Wilkens, and Ray Allen

I would have replaced them with

Adrian Dantley, Alex English, Joe Fulks, Dwight Howard, Dan Issel, Nikola Jokic, Tracy McGrady, Chris Mullin, Dikembe Mutombo, Klay Thompson, Chris Webber

But if you are asking 3 for 3....it's Sharrman, Dame, and Bing and I would replace them with English, Mutombo, and McGrady
So, you'd replace Westbrook. MVP and triple double king with Joe Fulks?

And yes, Dame or AD are the least deserving.

[Phoenix]

Missed the three options but the 10 players I wouldn't rank

Bill Sharrman, Billy Cunningham, Dave Bing, Damian Lillard, Anthony Davis, Dave DeBuscherre, Sam Jones, Russell Westbrook, Lenny Wilkens, and Ray Allen

I would have replaced them with

Adrian Dantley, Alex English, Joe Fulks, Dwight Howard, Dan Issel, Nikola Jokic, Tracy McGrady, Chris Mullin, Dikembe Mutombo, Klay Thompson, Chris Webber

But if you are asking 3 for 3....it's Sharrman, Dame, and Bing and I would replace them with English, Mutombo, and McGrady

I agree Tmac should be on there, but why would you take Ray Allen off?

[John8204]

I agree Tmac should be on there, but why would you take Ray Allen off?

I think it was too early for Russ and Ray...Domnique and McAdoo didn't make the top 50 list and I'm looking at one to one...and I'm not 100% on board with those guys.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507468-Rank-these-five-players-Hill-McGrady-Webber-Mourning-Allen

[Phoenix]

I think it was too early for Russ and Ray...Domnique and McAdoo didn't make the top 50 list and I'm looking at one to one...and I'm not 100% on board with those guys.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507468-Rank-these-five-players-Hill-McGrady-Webber-Mourning-Allen

I'm not understanding the 'too early' line of reasoning.

- At this stage Russ isn't going to add any legacy bullet points. If you think it's too early now then it's not going to be 'right on time' 10 years from now

- Why is it 'too early' for Ray Allen who's been retired for nearly a decade, but it's time for Klay Thompson? If you don't think Ray warrants top 75 now ( he does, arguably top 50 for that matter), why would he years from now in your mind? The same logic for Dwight who was just in the league as of last year. You consider his legacy top 75( which it is). Ray's legacy is either top 75 as of 2022 or it isn't. :confusedshrug:

The main issue in general with the list is that greatness has had an extra 25 years to be defined and recontexualized, and if the NBA had only done a top 75 list but never a top 50 back in 97, some of the guys on the list wouldn't make it. Lenny Wilkens shouldn't be on this list while guys like Tmac and Vince aren't, for example. Dominique and Mcadoo were also huge omissions back then. It's been corrected now by adding them to the latest 25, but that has the effect of bumping off guys who warrant being there.

[L.Kizzle]

I think it was too early for Russ and Ray...Domnique and McAdoo didn't make the top 50 list and I'm looking at one to one...and I'm not 100% on board with those guys.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507468-Rank-these-five-players-Hill-McGrady-Webber-Mourning-Allen
Ray has been in the Hall for 5 seasons and Russ has been in the league for 15. How is it too soon.

[John8204]

With Russ it's a take away aspect to his career he had that triple double MVP season but in hindsight I felt like it was stat padded heavily. And if Russ is completely washed up I'm not sure if he deserves to be ranked ahead guys that had long productive championship careers. I don't know if I wouldn't take a Tony Parker or Dennis Johnson over Russ when their careers ended and we look at the totality of the work.

Ray Allen I can see the argument for top 50 and I can see the argument for not being in the top 75. If he doesn't ring chase and we look at him as the best player on his teams is he ahead of a Dan Issel or Alex English or Adrian Dantely. And then you look at his contemporaries like Tracy Mcgrady, Vince Carter, Dwight Howard, Chris Webber, and Grant Hill. Was Ray better than those guys...I'm not sure.

Moving onto Klay Thompson 5 straight finals appearances, the Warriors dynasty only put one and half players on the list.

25th Anniversary Team players, which was only 10 players...two of them got cut (Fulks and Davies). Which kinda kills the idea they were on the list so they stay on the list. The bar moves all the time.

[Phoenix]

Ray has been in the Hall for 5 seasons and Russ has been in the league for 15. How is it too soon.

Yeah, Ray has the same number of 20ppg seasons as Klay has been in the league(10), twice as many all-star selections(10 to 5), and 19/4/3 career numbers. Klay's career numbers are 18/3/2 and will only go down from here as he's probably not hitting the 22ppg mark like he was 5 years ago. Even if he does, at some point he's going to hit the point in his career that affects his numbers. He can only go down from where he is now.

Too soon for Ray though :hammerhead:

[Phoenix]

Ray Allen I can see the argument for top 50 and I can see the argument for not being in the top 75. If he doesn't ring chase and we look at him as the best player on his teams is he ahead of a Dan Issel or Alex English or Adrian Dantely. And then you look at his contemporaries like Tracy Mcgrady, Vince Carter, Dwight Howard, Chris Webber, and Grant Hill. Was Ray better than those guys...I'm not sure

Moving onto Klay Thompson 5 straight finals appearances, the Warriors dynasty only put one and half players on the list.




Ray chasing rings as you say, and Klay happening to land on a Warriors squad that's generally one of the best in sports in terms of roster management, is how they each achieved their rings. I'm not sure that circumstance like this should make one eligible but not the other. Ray individually is more accomplished and at one point held the 3point record. It's all kinds of mental gymnastics to make a case that its 'too soon' for him but not Klay.

Furthermore, you holding 'chasing rings' against Ray, going to Boston after the Bucks and Sonics not producing titles is a part of his career. I don't see Klay being any more successful under the same conditions. I'm inclined to think less, because for all of Klay's success in the Warriors system, we have no context of him as a lead player. Ray nowadays is viewed as a 'shooter' which only fans that have come around in the last 15-20 years would think. He had a far more varied offensive skillset coming into the league as a ball-handler, facilitator and slasher/finisher. Klay as a range shooter is his equal with the potential of those once a year 'nuclear' scoring nights, but he doesn't touch the rest of prime Ray's offensive game, and Klay's superiority as a defender doesn't really make up that gap IMO.

So if you believe 'chasing rings' should count against him now, then it should count against him going forward for you. You're not going to get to 2030 and then be like 'ok NOW I can put Ray into top 75' and ignore the reasons you thought were 'too soon' before.

[Jasper]

not every player has to have a ring for cred.

Russ Westbrock most definitely should be on it for the simple reason only one other player was efficient in an MVP year : Oscar Robertson.

Part of the current list is to enhance fans about current players and probably will never sniff 100th anny.
Melo for example. (possibly McAdoo )

It is what it is.

* Rodman did not score like a champion / but he has enough chips and was IMO the best defender that ever played the game / he is in for life imo.

[John8204]

Klay(Steph, Iggy and Draymond) adjusted their games so that the Warriors could make that run. Five in a row making the finals is a big deal...bigger than All-Star selections. Klay and Ray have the same amount of All-NBA selections (2) neither guy made first team. Wilkins had to wait and he made All-NBA 7 times. English and Dikembe made All-NBA 3 times.

[Phoenix]

Klay(Steph, Iggy and Draymond) adjusted their games so that the Warriors could make that run. Five in a row making the finals is a big deal...bigger than All-Star selections. Klay and Ray have the same amount of All-NBA selections (2) neither guy made first team. Wilkins had to wait and he made All-NBA 7 times. English and Dikembe made All-NBA 3 times.

Klay has spent his entire career on the Warriors so there is no context for what adjustments and sacrifices he made. We've briefly seen Iggy as a lead player in Philly. We say Draymond three years ago without Steph and Klay( it wasn't pretty). We've seen Ray in a variety of situations to draw conclusions about what he was as a lead player and as a supporting one. If Ray was drafted to the Warriors in 2010 and played under the same scenario I doubt the Warriors end up with less titles or finals appearances.

Dominique should have been on the top 50. That doesn't mean you repeat the mistake by not including Ray because its 'too soon'. That's silly reasoning. Because you know what happens then? Between now and the 100th anniversary a number of current and future players will make legit cases and a few will get bumped because they have to put in players like Tmac, Dwight and Vince who should have made the all 75th. There are some older players that really have been surpassed but the NBA will not remove them, so this is going to happen into perpentuity the longer the league exists.

[ShawkFactory]

Looking at this list...why is Steve Nash included on there? He’s obviously deserving.

[Red Pill Sports]

Looking at this list...why is Steve Nash included on there? He’s obviously deserving.

Nash is purely a product of the mid 2000s rule changes. Prior to that he never even sniffed a MVP.

[1987_Lakers]

The fact that Steve Nash is an option is comical.

[1987_Lakers]

Looking at this list...why is Steve Nash included on there? He’s obviously deserving.

Glad I wasn't the first to point this out.

[Red Pill Sports]

The fact that Steve Nash is an option is comical.

The portion of his career that placed him on the Top 75 list came about mostly due to rule changes. It can truly be said he would have been irrelevant in any other era.

[ShawkFactory]

3ball, there are plenty of people who performed in their era based on the rules and/or competition. If you are going to discount someone based on that then you can speak about a lot of people you didn’t mention. It’s fruitless and unnecessary.

At the end of the day Nash, Scottie Pippen, and Bill Walton have no argument to not be top 75.

[Lee]

Carmelo Anthony
Anthony Davis
Damian Lillard
Dave DeBusschere

[Red Pill Sports]

3ball, there are plenty of people who performed in their era based on the rules and/or competition. If you are going to discount someone based on that then you can speak about a lot of people you didn’t mention. It’s fruitless and unnecessary.

At the end of the day Nash, Scottie Pippen, and Bill Walton have no argument to not be top 75.

Walton spent more time on the disabled list than he did playing games. His selection is based more on what could have been. If he belongs here, so do Grant Hill and Derrick Rose.

Scottie Pippen without the triangle=Derrick McKey. If Alex English isn't on the list, then Pippen shouldn't be either.

Chauncey Billups had 7 consecutive appearances in the Conference Finals, two Finals trips, a championship and a Finals MVP whereas Steve Nash never even played in a Finals. If Nash is on this list, then Billups should be as well.

[RRR3]

3ball, there are plenty of people who performed in their era based on the rules and/or competition. If you are going to discount someone based on that then you can speak about a lot of people you didn’t mention. It’s fruitless and unnecessary.

At the end of the day Nash, Scottie Pippen, and Bill Walton have no argument to not be top 75.
Walton had two seasons as a superstar lol. And he was still hurt a lot in those seasons. He has zero case. Pippen and Nash obviously true tho

[RRR3]

Walton spent more time on the disabled list than he did playing games. His selection is based more on what could have been. If he belongs here, so do Grant Hill and Derrick Rose.

Scottie Pippen without the triangle=Derrick McKey. If Alex English isn't on the list, then Pippen shouldn't be either.

Chauncey Billups had 7 consecutive appearances in the Conference Finals, two Finals trips, a championship and a Finals MVP whereas Steve Nash never even played in a Finals. If Nash is on this list, then Billups should be as well.
Shut up snivelly

[Red Pill Sports]

Shut up snivelly

Kiss my ass. You ought to be well-practiced; you do it for Bron every day

[1987_Lakers]

The portion of his career that placed him on the Top 75 list came about mostly due to rule changes. It can truly be said he would have been irrelevant in any other era.

By this logic we can take Curry off the list since he wouldn't be the same player in the 60's & 70's with no 3 point shot.

[ShawkFactory]

Walton spent more time on the disabled list than he did playing games. His selection is based more on what could have been. If he belongs here, so do Grant Hill and Derrick Rose.

Scottie Pippen without the triangle=Derrick McKey. If Alex English isn't on the list, then Pippen shouldn't be either.

Chauncey Billups had 7 consecutive appearances in the Conference Finals, two Finals trips, a championship and a Finals MVP whereas Steve Nash never even played in a Finals. If Nash is on this list, then Billups should be as well.

These are all fvcking terrible arguments :lol

[ShawkFactory]

Walton had two seasons as a superstar lol. And he was still hurt a lot in those seasons. He has zero case. Pippen and Nash obviously true tho

Perhaps, but he won a ring as the undisputed man and an another as a nice contributor off the bench. When healthy, he is consistently discussed as one of the best players ever. On top of that he's one of the 2-3 NCAA players ever, which doesn't technically matter on paper but it helps.

His case is certainly stronger than Grant Hill's or Derrick Rose's.

[RRR3]

Perhaps, but he won a ring as the undisputed man and an another as a nice contributor off the bench. When healthy, he is consistently discussed as one of the best players ever. On top of that he's one of the 2-3 NCAA players ever, which doesn't technically matter on paper but it helps.

His case is certainly stronger than Grant Hill's or Derrick Rose's.
Hill had way longer as a superstar than Walton. Walton being top 75 is essentially saying you think Bill Russell was top 75 after playing less than two full seasons. And I’m being as generous as possible comparing him to Russell.

[dankok8]

Lillard was really the only weird choice for me. I may not agree with some of the others but at least there is a case to be made.

Bill Walton is in for me. He gives you more championship equity in 1-2 years than some of these dudes for their entire careers. Guy was that good at his peak.

[ShawkFactory]

Hill had way longer as a superstar than Walton. Walton being top 75 is essentially saying you think Bill Russell was top 75 after playing less than two full seasons. And I’m being as generous as possible comparing him to Russell.

That's all fine. Walton did as much in 2 years as many others did ever. He's a legend for a reason.

On top of the accomplishments in a short period, his playstyle as a big was borderline transcendental. Jokic-esque at times with incredible defense.

[Wally450]

Melo, Dame and Westbrook easy.

[bison]

i still haven't been told what is so great about robert parish. He was a decent rebounder with longevity. So what. you could say the same about kevin willis. how do role players like him and pippen get in the top 70? benefit of the spotlight?

[John8204]

i still haven't been told what is so great about robert parish. He was a decent rebounder with longevity. So what. you could say the same about kevin willis. how do role players like him and pippen get in the top 70? benefit of the spotlight?

Well you've got the 4 centers in Walton, Parish, Cowens, and Unseld who you could make a case for them being in or out(and you could rank them in any order). I feel like they are all outliers in their own way but it's weird that they are in and Dikembe and Howard were left off