Draymond gives his top 5. You hate at least 4 of his picks.

[Kblaze8855]

“My top 5 is LJ 1, MJ 2, Kobe 3, Steph 4, Shaq 5,” said Draymond. “By 2005, LeBron was the best player in the NBA. In 2020, he was still the best player in the NBA. He was the best player in the NBA no matter what the game did. The game went from two slugs like slow big men to a stretch four big man, to like back to two big man to like no big man – and he’s been the best no matter what.”

“I love M.J.,” Green said of Jordan. “I think M.J. is incredible. M.J. is M.J. We all wanted to be like Mike. I wear 23, come on now. We all want to be like Mike. But what LeBron has been able to do and how he can control the game and to do it this long — M.J. retired. This s—‘s grueling. Going to the Finals year after year after year, Bron went eight or nine straight years. M.J. took a break in right in the heat of that s—. Bron ain’t take no break.”


“When you look at the teams that LeBron has carried to championships or carried to the Finals. MJ didn’t beat the greatest team ever assembled. Nor did he run up against the greatest team ever assembled every year,”




with LeBron at one and the inclusion of Shaq and curry, he gave a tremendous swath of the fanhood something to be mad about. He’s going to be good at the stupid game the media plays to manipulate everyone into fighting about shit that doesn’t matter.

[Full Court]

Not like his opinion on this means any more or less than anyone else's opinion. It's a subjective thing.

[Johnny32]

i'd say the majority of the lists i've seen have lebron/mj top 2 in whatever order. that leaves 3 picks everyone is going to hate. his teammate curry, a legend who shockingly and tragically died in a helicopter crash a couple years ago in kobe, and shaq...arguably the most dominant peak ever.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't have James as the greatest ever but it's not an outrageous opinion. I think it's Jabbar so my opinion is just as "off."

[Kblaze8855]

Not like his opinion on this means any more or less than anyone else's opinion. It's a subjective thing.


Well, nobody’s opinion on sports means anything, but there certainly is a credibility gap on every subject between the public and the people who live in it. I’m fairly certain I could name five all-time NHL players because I am a general sports fan and I know the names I have heard. But you absolutely should not consider anything I say to be a valuable or informed take as compared to Barry Melrose, who has been involved in the game and talking about it for like 40 years. We might even have a similar top five because living in society has exposed me to enough arguments that I can probably parrot them back at you even while lacking the information that led informed people to the conclusions I’ve been hearing.

basketball is similar. Everyone even half ass interested in sports could give you a top five but a huge portion of them couldn’t tell you how far a free throw is.

So while I would read what some random casual said he thought the top five players of the 70s are I would not give his opinion much weight as compared to someone like Larry Brown giving me his list. Larry played in the ABA and coached in the NBA and saw every great player of the arrow up close. He simply knows more than most people about the subject, and if we give equal weight to the opinions of the uninformed…why bother asking questions?

all that said, you could put the 10 most informed people on any subject in a room and get 10 different opinions so more information and experience obviously doesn’t make anybody flat out right or wrong I’m just saying there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging all opinions are not created equal.

[Kblaze8855]

I don't have James as the greatest ever but it's not an outrageous opinion. I think it's Jabbar so my opinion is just as "off."


There used to be six acceptable answers to that question to me, but now I would say there are three and LeBron isn’t one of them but he’s still in that list of six or seven where if someone picks them? I don’t have to stop what I’m doing to determine if they have a mental issue that excuses it.

You would have to go pretty far down the list of all-time greats before someone picking them as the best would have me ask them to explain themselves.

[red1]

draymond is absolutely right.


I would leave baldan and curry off the list but otherwise it checks out :applause:

[8Ball]

with LeBron at one and the inclusion of Shaq and curry, he gave a tremendous swath of the fanhood something to be mad about. He’s going to be good at the stupid game the media plays to manipulate everyone into fighting about shit that doesn’t matter.

LeBron being #1 is just something that is more and more ingrained in the minds of more and more players and fans around the world.

Jordan lost his unanimous #1 ranking and will never gain it back. Too many fans and players no longer think jordan has the goat spot.

Dray's reasoning also makes perfect sense. As a player, he knows how difficult it is to lead a team to the finals year after year. And Bron did it 10x as the team's best player.

[post]

most perhaps all people have mental issues as far as i can tell

anyway

i don't know the answer or if there is one

there's nothing wrong with draymond's list

but gun to my head it probably wouldn't be mine

[Real Men Wear Green]

LeBron being #1 is just something that is more and more ingrained in the minds of more and more players and fans around the world.

Jordan lost his unanimous #1 ranking and will never gain it back. Too many fans and players no longer think jordan has the goat spot.

Dray's reasoning also makes perfect sense. As a player, he knows how difficult it is to lead a team to the finals year after year. And Bron did it 10x as the team's best player.

That is an inevitable product of time. But in the end Jordan is still the consensus greatest ever and will keep that spot after James retires. James is at the peak of his all time great ranking and still has not passed Jordan on consensus so the reality is he will not without more championships and/or MVPs. The MVP award is completely out of the question and the championship is highly unlikely.

[Johnny32]

lol rmwg makes the stupidest arguments. the best part...he's supposed to be one of the "good posters"

[8Ball]

That is an inevitable product of time. But in the end Jordan is still the consensus greatest ever and will keep that spot after James retires. James is at the peak of his all time great ranking and still has not passed Jordan on consensus so the reality is he will not without more championships and/or MVPs. The MVP award is completely out of the question and the championship is highly unlikely.

It will be a 50/50 thing going forward after Bron retires.

Half the fans think its Bron, the other half Jordan. And it won't swing back in Jordan's favour in the distant future.

You don't place value on the all time scoring record, but believe me TONS of players in the league do and many fans. From player's perspective, they think of more than just MVPs and championships.

[red1]

It will be a 50/50 thing going forward.

Half the fans think its Bron, the other half Jordan. And it won't swing back in Jordan's favour in the distant future.

You don't place value on the all time scoring record, but believe me TONS of players in the league do and many fans. From player's perspective, they think of more than just MVPs and championships.

finals MVP over a 73win team >>>



fans dont have these narratives of buh buh kyrie




thats just a 3ball low-IQ special.

[SATAN]

People are dying of starvation as you read this.

[Real Men Wear Green]

lol rmwg makes the stupidest arguments. the best part...he's supposed to be one of the "good posters"
Sorry but I don't need the approval of 12 year-olds.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It will be a 50/50 thing going forward after Bron retires.

Half the fans think its Bron, the other half Jordan. And it won't swing back in Jordan's favour in the distant future.

You don't place value on the all time scoring record, but believe me TONS of players in the league do and many fans. From player's perspective, they think of more than just MVPs and championships.
It won't be 50-50. This is James peak and it isn't even 50-50. Do you remember what people were saying about Bryant the last time he lead the Lakers to a championship? He was getting argued as the greatest ever by a few analysts. James had more support than Bryant had back then but the hype was out there. And it receded. That is what happens to everyone's reputation over time. And it is going to happen to James. I would just about bet money that in 10 years there will be people saying Doncic is better. Not that that will be the consensus but the player in NBA history who got the same level of support for his GOAT argument over time does not exist.

[StrongLurk]

Once again NBA players prove their "rankings" are just as bad as anyone else's.

[tontoz]

I love Steph but 4th all time is a reach, as is Kobe at 3 and Shaq at 5. Kobe at 3 looks like the worst pick to me.

[Kblaze8855]

I love Steph but 4th all time is a reach, as is Kobe at 3 and Shaq at 5. Kobe at 3 looks like the worst pick to me.

That’s the genius of it. He can get an upset or happy reaction from so many fan bases with the way he ordered it. Those jobs arent about substance but about garnering a reaction and he is learning how to do it.

[dankok8]

I can see the GOAT debate shifting back towards Jordan because when the dust settles Lebron will probably have less rings and major accomplishments. Then again maybe not because more and more NBA fans have never watched Jordan play and that number will only grow. Heck in a few years it might be some new player that gets GOAT hype.

Bill Russell was the GOAT in 1980 and since then no one has comes close (not even Jordan) to matching his accomplishments and yet now he's down to like #4 on average lists. Most people don't like to pick athletes that they never watched as GOAT's. We prefer the ones we grew up with. Plus the longevity of modern athletes is making them break a lot of records of old. Kareem just won't be as sexy a GOAT pick after he's #2 on the all-time scoring list.

[WhiteKyrie]

i'd say the majority of the lists i've seen have lebron/mj top 2 in whatever order. that leaves 3 picks everyone is going to hate. his teammate curry, a legend who shockingly and tragically died in a helicopter crash a couple years ago in kobe, and shaq...arguably the most dominant peak ever.

I agree. Not that hot of a take and I can see the arguments tbh

[post]

i think years ago i once said somewhere else

wilt
jordan
kareem
lebron
shaq

it may have been in that order or not

today though it's kind of like whatever

[WhiteKyrie]

i think years ago i once said somewhere else

wilt
jordan
kareem
lebron
shaq

it may have been in that order or not

today though it's kind of like whatever
The only locks that I see right now are Michael and LeBron in the one and two spot. The rest of his list, I could see an argument putting those guys over the other names you mentioned. To be honest.

[hold this L]

His list is pretty bad, 3/5 shouldn't be in the top 5 IMO.

[Jasper]

last time I looked D. Green thought he was the best defender in the world.
A boot to the groin doesn't put him over the top /
So his cred w/me is pretty much ZERO.

[Smook A.]

Shocking to me how he doesn't have Magic and Kareem in the top 5. Draymond is a casual confirmed.

For me the top 5 goes:

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson

[Wardell Curry]

If we're talking about peak seasons, the list is probably correct if it's not in any particular order and if you take out Kobe. If we're talking about careers, you have to drop Kobe, Shaq and Steph out.

[BigShotBob]

Looks more like a list of his favorite players than the best players which seems to be what these lists are more and more about nowadays

[post]

The only locks that I see right now are Michael and LeBron in the one and two spot. The rest of his list, I could see an argument putting those guys over the other names you mentioned. To be honest.

well i'm pretty argued out to be honest

i'll just say russell and kareem thought wilt was goat

people may want to ask themselves

why draymond only has 1 center in the top 5

when it's pretty obvious size matters

[SATAN]

https://www.mostholyplace.com/wpimages/wpa42edf1d_1a.png

[ArbitraryWater]

By 2005 lol

[WhiteKyrie]

well i'm pretty argued out to be honest

i'll just say russell and kareem thought wilt was goat

people may want to ask themselves

why draymond only has 1 center in the top 5

when it's pretty obvious size matters
Nah wing player always mattered most. Besides Hakeem, none of those big men won without having absolutely star studded or really quality and amazing perimeter player or players. It’s actually overrated by the layman in basketball. I have all those centers on the same tier honestly

[Kblaze8855]

So bigs are supposed to win without even having “really quality” smalls?

So…what we talking about? Winning rings with average players?

The champions best player has played the 4 or 5 for like 50 of the leagues 75 years. I don’t think having good guards overshadows that.

The bigman was key for at least 100 years of basketball.

[WhiteKyrie]

So bigs are supposed to win without even having “really quality” smalls?

So…what we talking about? Winning rings with average players?

The champions best player has played the 4 or 5 for like 50 of the leagues 75 years. I don’t think having good guards overshadows that.

The bigman was key for at least 100 years of basketball.

Key, yes. But I think it’s pretty obvious the actual greatest basketball players of all time, have predominantly been perimeter guys: Mike, LeBron, Magic, Bird, Kobe, West, Oscar and now Curry. If center position alone was all it’s cracked up to be, Hakeem is the only one who really won without having a superstar or perennial all star caliber perimeter player

[Kblaze8855]

The 8 players you listed won rings playing with 10 hall of fame bigs(16 all stars)….

I don’t see why we have to use one against the other. I think the most accurate thing is to acknowledge you just need a complete team.

[post]

Nah wing player always mattered most. Besides Hakeem, none of those big men won without having absolutely star studded or really quality and amazing perimeter player or players. It’s actually overrated by the layman in basketball. I have all those centers on the same tier honestly

size matters starts with the fact

the average nba player is 9 inches taller than the average american man

and goes from there

[post]

So bigs are supposed to win without even having “really quality” smalls?

So…what we talking about? Winning rings with average players?

The champions best player has played the 4 or 5 for like 50 of the leagues 75 years. I don’t think having good guards overshadows that.

The bigman was key for at least 100 years of basketball.

well yeah it basically starts with mikan or even fulks if you want to talk about the first title 75 years ago

[Micku]

I'm not upset about LeBron being number 1.

Given what LeBron has done, I figure it's a no-brainer that MJ wouldn't be undisputed the best ever anymore in the generation coming up and etc. He had a good run. I don't agree his reasoning, but it's whatever. He played against him. Most players have a bias over who they played against than what was done in the past.

But speaking of what was done in the past, I'm disappointed over no Kareem though. But that's a bunch of players in the nba. They always fail to mention Kareem. Kareem accomplishments are up there in that GOAT tier. And I don't know if I would pick Steph and Shaq over Magic.

It's all good though. It's his opinion and it's not the first time I disagree with an NBA's player opinion on the rankings.

[post]

friendly reminder

the back to back mvp

and back to back runner up mvp

are massive homo sapiens

[Jud]

At least he got the first 2 right

[PeroAntic]

It seems Dray doesn't know there was basketball before he came to the NBA

[Legend248]

i'd say the majority of the lists i've seen have lebron/mj top 2 in whatever order. that leaves 3 picks everyone is going to hate. his teammate curry, a legend who shockingly and tragically died in a helicopter crash a couple years ago in kobe, and shaq...arguably the most dominant peak ever.

hey bitch, lebum 2 is just media driven lol....nobody in their right mind will have him ranked higher than kobe, at best lebum is top 10 lol and that fax