Luka's skillset and career is following Lebron's almost exactly

[3ba11]

Last year, Luka had a brief playoff peak in his 4th season just like 07' Lebron.

This year, Luka is barely .500 in his 5th season just like 08' Lebron

Yet everyone laughed (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507460-Luka-ball-will-be-career-loser-just-like-Lebron-ball-unless-he-form-super-teams) when I said that Luka's team peaked last year just like 07' Lebron peaked early in Cleveland - everyone thought last year's run was a prelude to future runs.. :oldlol:

Since their skillsets impose spot-up roles that stall young players, Luka and Lebron can't build anything substantial with existing teammates and need ready-made stars to contend.

In addition to needing ready-made stars to win (not organic-capable), ball-dominators like Lebron and Luka can't consistently shoot over defenses like expert jumpshooters (Curry, Kobe, Dirk, etc) and therefore "need spacing" for their drives to be MVP or have a contender.

We saw this with Lebron when elite spacing help vaulted his stiff-arm to MVP and league favorite in 2009 - otherwise, Lebron was only winning 45-50 games from 06-08' despite having top 5 defenses, a 2x all-star center and a 22 ppg acquisition (all-defender), while also taking 3 years to develop into a veteran, high seed before making the 06' Playoffs in the first place.. This is hardly an all-time level of carrying, although his one-off in 07' did prove he could carry teams like other 1-star winners at the time, aka Iverson, Kidd or Dwight..

[expansionera]

Luka is garbage, LeBron is the GOAT

[Yeezy]

lukas skills are on point with kobe, bird, durant, MJ offensively. he has every shot and counter in the book. his mentality and lack of athleticism is his downfall most of the time. he has to take incresingly difficult shots just to get anything off. like needing 30 foot step backs for every three ( kobe took highly contested shots from deep but not nearly as often and it was more of a momentum swing or killer ). he can't play off the ball either. his offensive system is flawed and relies on all 3 and D athletes to make up for it. if he was in a system like the 80s celtics he would average 25/9/7 like bird did and he needs to be taking like 1 or 2 threes a game rather than his usual 8... he should focus more on baiting guys with his skills at pump fakes and drawing fouls but hes too shook at the line like lebron so he settles

its all in his head cause he has a great form. when he's defended he shoots better than when hes open. its all mentality. hes very shy and smiles after every mistake and awkward moment. he turns red and runs the other way giggling. its pathetic. hes not a stone cold killer like kobe or even what tatum is turning into but i still believe in him. he just needs time like lebron did... lebron needed till 2012... thats when he grew a pair. since 2018 lebrons been regressing back into that shook mentality but none the less it provided lebron with the necessary skills to chase rings elsewhere. i hope luka does the same because at most dallas might fluke one championship down the road. thats not enough to be one of the goats

i said last night this dunk put him in the MVP conversation


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGpLkMGDF8


i was a prisoner of the moment. the mavs obviously won't win enough games. its tatum, giannis or embiids award to lose

[3ba11]

lukas skills are on point with kobe, bird, durant, MJ offensively. he has every shot and counter in the book. his mentality and lack of athleticism is his downfall most of the time. he has to take incresingly difficult shots just to get anything off. like needing 30 foot step backs for every three ( kobe took highly contested shots from deep but not nearly as often and it was more of a momentum swing or killer ). he can't play off the ball either. his offensive system is flawed and relies on all 3 and D athletes to make up for it. if he was in a system like the 80s celtics he would average 25/9/7 like bird did and he needs to be taking like 1 or 2 threes a game rather than his usual 8... he should focus more on baiting guys with his skills at pump fakes and drawing fouls but hes too shook at the line like lebron so he settles

its all in his head cause he has a great form. when he's defended he shoots better than when hes open. its all mentality. hes very shy and smiles after every mistake and awkward moment. he turns red and runs the other way giggling. its pathetic. hes not a stone cold killer like kobe or even what tatum is turning into but i still believe in him. he just needs time like lebron did... lebron needed till 2012... thats when he grew a pair. since 2018 lebrons been regressing back into that shook mentality but none the less it provided lebron with the necessary skills to chase rings elsewhere. i hope luka does the same because at most dallas might fluke one championship down the road. thats not enough to be one of the goats

i said last night this dunk put him in the MVP conversation


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGpLkMGDF8


i was a prisoner of the moment. the mavs obviously won't win enough games. its tatum, giannis or embiids award to lose


Luka would do that dunk more often if his driving lanes were wider from having a top 10 three-point shooting team like 2009 Lebron

We all saw when Lebron finally got elite spacing help in 2009 - it vaulted his stiff-arm to MVP and league favorite - so as great as Luka is, he would be even greater (MVP) with elite-shooting teammates because that's what ball-dominators need for their drives.

Before Lebron got elite spacing in 2009, he was only winning 45-50 games from 06-08' (like current Luka) despite having top 5 defenses, a 2x all-star center and a 22 ppg acquisition (all-defender), while also taking 3 years to develop into a veteran, high seed before making the 06' Playoffs in the first place.. This is hardly an all-time level of carrying, although his one-off in 07' did prove he could carry teams like other 1-star winners at the time, aka Iverson, Kidd or Dwight..

Btw, 87' Jordan dunked on someone like that literally every night and more than once on many nights

[Hey Yo]

Before MJ got elite Pippen, he was 1-9.

[ImKobe]

Team-wise Doncic is in a worse situation. Even the '07 & '08 Cavs had great defenses and good role players. Luka kind of has a worse version of that right now AND he's not playing in the least competitive Conference in NBA history like Bran did from 07-18 with most/all the contenders on the other side.

Luka's the better player IMO. Teams used to sag off Bran and give him wide open jump shots & he was still struggling to make them. Doncic is a good mid-range scorer and he's improved his 3PT shot this season. He's not as athletic but he's just as good at getting to the rim & the FT line and he's just as good (I'd argue even better) at passing the ball.

[Yeezy]

Luka would do that dunk more often if his driving lanes were wider from having a top 10 three-point shooting team like 2009 Lebron

We all saw when Lebron finally got elite spacing help in 2009 - it vaulted his stiff-arm to MVP and league favorite - so as great as Luka is, he would be even greater (MVP) with elite-shooting teammates because that's what ball-dominators need for their drives.

Before Lebron got elite spacing in 2009, he was only winning 45-50 games from 06-08' (like current Luka) despite having top 5 defenses, a 2x all-star center and a 22 ppg acquisition (all-defender), while also taking 3 years to develop into a veteran, high seed before making the 06' Playoffs in the first place.. This is hardly an all-time level of carrying, although his one-off in 07' did prove he could carry teams like other 1-star winners at the time, aka Iverson, Kidd or Dwight..

Btw, 87' Jordan dunked on someone like that literally every night and many times more than once

the mavs don't have the shooters right now for that broken lebron assist padding system. dallas needs to dump finney smith and reggie bullock... they're killing them.. plus their spacing is horrible off the luka double team. they can't even swing for open shot. they need to practice that and free throws. accountability on defense and not run the same shit all the damn time. the other teams figure them out. and christian wood needs the ball more as well..he should be averaging 25 a game. hes that good. luka and him should be throwing lobs all day. put them in a 2 man kobe/gasol type offensive pick and pop/roll situation then have wood hit the open guy if they roll to him

get more easy buckets and transition opportunities. lukas always slowing them down to make sure he gets the assist. its pathetic.

[Yeezy]

Before MJ got elite Pippen, he was 1-9.

what was he internationally and vs nba allstars his rookie year

jordan with 1 sidekick can beat 12 superstars

no bronze in his trophy case

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/RzMnvcL7FliwrzWy19yx3mwzGCE=/0x0:3714x2392/1200x800/filters:focal(1795x1242:2389x1836)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/66906617/900940494.jpg.0.jpg

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/08/GettyImages-51439634.jpg

[Hey Yo]

Kobe not good enough to be selected to the 04 team.

[Yeezy]

Kobe not good enough to be selected to the 04 team.

are you ever right about anything

https://i.ibb.co/KsYpp3h/Screen-Shot-2022-12-17-at-10-53-14-AM.png



and

https://i.ibb.co/CwNB53h/Screen-Shot-2022-12-17-at-10-54-14-AM.png


both due to female issues

[1987_Lakers]

He's basically LeBron in terms if how versatile they are on offense, both can carry teams to winning records without much help, but Luka will never reach Bron's level on the defensive end and it's obvious LeBron is 10x the athlete.

[Yeezy]

He's basically LeBron in terms if how versatile they are on offense, both can carry teams to winning records without much help, but Luka will never reach Bron's level on the defensive end and it's obvious LeBron is 10x the athlete.

by the time lebron got the skills down he stopped playing defense


before 2014 he was raw and shook. couldn't really shoot at all but was a good defender

2015 onward he could step out more and more but looked like ass on defense


lebron was never a complete player like kobe or jordan

in fact even in 2015 lebron couldn't do shit with iggy on him. he didn't have those mid range shots or threes yet down either. 2016 was probably the time he started hitting them consistently. still can't hit a free throw though

[3ba11]

He's basically LeBron in terms if how versatile they are on offense.





Lebron was never a dominant post player, whereas Luka dominates the post with the best post stats in the league, while also having a great mid-range shot and clutch ability that Lebron lacks

Luka is just a better pure scorer

But their reliance on ball-dominance will ultimately result in similar team results (they need super-teams to win)

but i do believe that Luka's team ceilings are higher because of his superior clutch ability - he would never choke in the Finals like Lebron in 2011 or the 2010 ECSF or the first 6 games of 2013 Finals (23 on 43% before the Ray miracle) or the first 4 games of the 16' Finals (24 and 6 TO's)






both can carry teams to winning records without much help.





Every good player does that

for some reason only Lebron gets credit for it

before he received the elite spacing help that his stiff arm needs in 2009, Lebron was only winning 45-50 games from 06-08' despite having top 5 defenses, a 2x all-star center and a 22 ppg acquisition (all-defender), while also taking 3 years to develop into a veteran, high seed before making the 06' Playoffs in the first place.. This is hardly an all-time level of carrying, although his one-off in 07' did prove he could carry teams like other 1-star winners at the time, aka Iverson, Kidd or Dwight.

[ShawkFactory]

Team-wise Doncic is in a worse situation. Even the '07 & '08 Cavs had great defenses and good role players. Luka kind of has a worse version of that right now AND he's not playing in the least competitive Conference in NBA history like Bran did from 07-18 with most/all the contenders on the other side.

Luka's the better player IMO. Teams used to sag off Bran and give him wide open jump shots & he was still struggling to make them. Doncic is a good mid-range scorer and he's improved his 3PT shot this season. He's not as athletic but he's just as good at getting to the rim & the FT line and he's just as good (I'd argue even better) at passing the ball.

Shocker :lol

[90sgoat]

lukas skills are on point with kobe, bird, durant, MJ offensively. he has every shot and counter in the book. his mentality and lack of athleticism is his downfall most of the time. he has to take incresingly difficult shots just to get anything off. like needing 30 foot step backs for every three ( kobe took highly contested shots from deep but not nearly as often and it was more of a momentum swing or killer ). he can't play off the ball either.

Great post:cheers: Actually a very good analysis bro.

Also, I'd like to add that Kemba found an open Luka at the 3-point line and Luka made it.

I don't think Luka is going to continue being strictly on ball. He's going to grow up and understand he needs to do more by doing less.

Lebron couldn't play off ball due to lack of skill. Lebron was literally shooting in the low 30s from everywhere else than the rim until second term Cleveland.

Luka can play off ball, he just hasn't wanted too and also he hasn't had a playmaker like Kemba.

I think for Luka, he needs to see it be effective before he changes his game. It's not just pure ego of wanting to dominate every possession, it's also thinking he's so much better that every move should go through him. In that regard he is more Kobe, than Lebron.

In the end I think he'll just learn to hit the open 3, he'll learn the give and go, etc.

The problem is that so far, he legit hasn't been playing with any talented playmakers. Zingis, Dinwiddie, Brunson, they are good players, even elite at some things, but they're not cerebral playmakers. They're not going to teach him to play off ball, like if he had CP3 or Marc Gasol or Pop as a coach.

If you're Mavs, you need to find some elite playmakers to bring in, doesn't matter which position. Luka needs to see that teammates can get him open, can make effective plays.

[3ba11]

Great post:cheers: Actually a very good analysis bro.

Also, I'd like to add that Kemba found an open Luka at the 3-point line and Luka made it.

I don't think Luka is going to continue being strictly on ball. He's going to grow up and understand he needs to do more by doing less.

Lebron couldn't play off ball due to lack of skill. Lebron was literally shooting in the low 30s from everywhere else than the rim until second term Cleveland.

Luka can play off ball, he just hasn't wanted too and also he hasn't had a playmaker like Kemba.

I think for Luka, he needs to see it be effective before he changes his game. It's not just pure ego of wanting to dominate every possession, it's also thinking he's so much better that every move should go through him. In that regard he is more Kobe, than Lebron.

In the end I think he'll just learn to hit the open 3, he'll learn the give and go, etc.

The problem is that so far, he legit hasn't been playing with any talented playmakers. Zingis, Dinwiddie, Brunson, they are good players, even elite at some things, but they're not cerebral playmakers. They're not going to teach him to play off ball, like if he had CP3 or Marc Gasol or Pop as a coach.

If you're Mavs, you need to find some elite playmakers to bring in, doesn't matter which position. Luka needs to see that teammates can get him open, can make effective plays.


Shawk, SouBeach or another poster recently posted the individual assist stats for champions since 1990 and most of the leading assist guys on champions averaged 5-7 apg - high assist guys rarely won, so I don't think Luka needs a high-assist teammate.. Brunson was more than enough but it's on Luka to make off-ball domination a bigger part of his game

But you guys are right - Luka has the mid-range shot, clutch and post dominance to be different from Lebron and forge a different path that has higher team ceilings.

[90sgoat]

Shawk, SouBeach or another poster recently posted the individual assist stats for champions since 1990 and most of the leading assist guys on champions averaged 5-7 apg - high assist guys rarely won, so I don't think Luka needs a high-assist teammate.. Brunson was more than enough but it's on Luka to make off-ball domination a bigger part of his game

But you guys are right - Luka has the mid-range shot, clutch and post dominance to be different from Lebron and forge a different path that has higher team ceilings.

The thing with Dinwiddie and Brunson is that they're also iso specialists.

Christian Wood is actually the better playmaker, the higher IQ teammate.

Luka needs players who won't just give the ball back to him by default, but make good basketball plays. Needs some tough love, but it needs to be from a vet.

I honestly think it was Luka that didn't want Dragic this summer. Doesn't want that old brother relationship from the Slovenia team, but Mavs need to find an older brother regardless.

I suggested Mavs trade for Clarkson and Olynuk from Utah, they match up, both are good playmakers and intelligent players. They can swing THJ and Betans.

[NBAGOAT]

The thing with Dinwiddie and Brunson is that they're also iso specialists.

Christian Wood is actually the better playmaker, the higher IQ teammate.

Luka needs players who won't just give the ball back to him by default, but make good basketball plays. Needs some tough love, but it needs to be from a vet.

I honestly think it was Luka that didn't want Dragic this summer. Doesn't want that old brother relationship from the Slovenia team, but Mavs need to find an older brother regardless.

I suggested Mavs trade for Clarkson and Olynuk from Utah, they match up, both are good playmakers and intelligent players. They can swing THJ and Betans.

clarkson is better this year surprisingly but still a chucker who looks to shoot first. He's more of an iso specialist than dinwiddie or brunson.

Like early lebron luka just needs better management. Losing brunson for nothing is terrible for a team looking to contend. Porzingis was the wrong guy to go all in on though now he's looking like an all star again. Jason Kidd isnt a good offensive coach though luka deserves some blame there(they had carlisle). Atlanta's team isnt working out but at least they tried trading for an all star in dejounte to pair with trae.

[Phoenix]

Shawk, SouBeach or another poster recently posted the individual assist stats for champions since 1990 and most of the leading assist guys on champions averaged 5-7 apg - high assist guys rarely won, so I don't think Luka needs a high-assist teammate.. Brunson was more than enough but it's on Luka to make off-ball domination a bigger part of his game

But you guys are right - Luka has the mid-range shot, clutch and post dominance to be different from Lebron and forge a different path that has higher team ceilings.

That was my post. And going further back, once you got past the 60's with Cousy on the Celtics, there's few if any 70's champions that come to mind where the PG was averaging double digit assists. Once the 80's hit you had Magic and Isiah as 'high assist' PGs on champiosnhip teams. Bird was averaging 6-7 assists on those Celtics teams. 'High assist'( let's say 9Ior more per game) PGs on championship teams isn't that common over the history of the league. if Luka ends up winning any titles I doubt it will be with the numbers he's getting now, including assists.

[Axe]

So?