Where would you rank prime Jokic all-time as an offensive player?

[1987_Lakers]

I mean, he's gotta be top 10 right?

[RRR3]

Number one for centers. Idk about overall. If he was a great defender he’d legitimately be the best center ever.

[tontoz]

Yeah it is pretty hard to put in perspective just how good he is. Volume scorer with elite efficiency and elite playmaking.

I guess the only thing you can criticize is relatively weak 3 pt shooting. He's had a couple of good years from 3 though. He really needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Not a big threat off the ball.

[fourkicks44]

Easily top ten.

Probably 1 for centers when he is done. You have Wilt over him right now.

Shaq, Kareem, Joel are better straight scorers but obviously not overall offensive players.

Although Jokic's superior free throw shooting over Shaq and Wilt should be well noted.

[RRR3]

Easily top ten.

Probably 1 for centers when he is done. You have Wilt over him right now.

Shaq, Kareem, Joel are better straight scorers but obviously not overall offensive players.

Although Jokic's superior free throw shooting over Shaq and Wilt should be well noted.
Wilt was not as offensively impactful as Jokic by any means.

[Yeezy]

the era has a lot to do with his ability to dominate. jokic is probly only a slightly better vlade divac.


put vlade in a league with 6'5, 240 pound small ball centers and he would put up like 20/15/8 probly



arvydas sabonis would average 35/15/10

[Yeezy]

boris diaw in today's league would average 20/10/9

[fourkicks44]

Wilt was not as offensively impactful as Jokic by any means.

Yeah, I would only put Wilt over him FOR NOW is because of the bullshit numbers he put up and his long career.

Joker has a long way to go in his career still.

[Phoenix]

the era has a lot to do with his ability to dominate. jokic is probly only a slightly better vlade divac.


put vlade in a league with 6'5, 240 pound small ball centers and he would put up like 20/15/8 probly



arvydas sabonis would average 35/15/10

How you go from a slightly better Vlade Divac to Sabonis( which is probably a better barometer if he entered the league in the 80's and we got to see his prime) is beyond me.

[Yeezy]

larry bird in today's nba would be a 1st team all nba center averaging 40/15/12

:roll:

[John8204]

Jokic doesn't have a finals appearance or 20PPG career average. He's good at a lot of things but he's basically Patrick Ewing right now except he passes the ball and doesn't win in the post season.

I'd put him 25-35 for his versatility

[Yeezy]

How you go from a slightly better Vlade Divac to Sabonis( which is probably a better barometer if he entered the league in the 80's and we got to see his prime) is beyond me.

divac was a highly skilled do it all big man. his style didn't work well in a banging back down muscle era but today he would be a poor man's joker for sure. sabonis would be run away goat

[Phoenix]

divac was a highly skilled do it all big man. his style didn't work well in a banging back down muscle era but today he would be a poor man's joker for sure. sabonis would be run away goat

That wasn't in question. That sentiment can be expressed without going to the extreme of thinking Divac would be anywhere near Joker level if he were playing now though.

[StrongLurk]

Top 5, top 10, it's pointless to use such specific numbers for rankings. To me, he's potentially GOAT-tier offensive player.

He's a Bird/Dirk combo.

Per 100 Jokic stats these last three years - 38.5/17.6/12, 129 Offensive Rating
Per 100 Larry Bird's three year MVP stretch - 32.3/12.5/8.2, 117 Offensive Rating

And no, the defense in the mid-80's was not noticeable better than defense currently.

[Yeezy]

That wasn't in question. That sentiment can be expressed without going to the extreme of thinking Divac would be anywhere near Joker level if he were playing now though.

divac would average 20/15/8 today

[Phoenix]

divac would average 20/15/8 today

No he wouldn't.

[post]

hard to say

better than manute bol

worse than jordan

maybe

[Yeezy]

No he wouldn't.

if he did it for stretches in a legit big man era like 1995 then he would do it consistently today

https://i.ibb.co/Xscqr8q/Screenshot-20221219-175759-Gallery.jpg

[Yeezy]

the nikola jokic of the 90s



https://youtu.be/HE06FYHmZ1I


identical players. all skill. no luck shots

[1987_Lakers]

larry bird in today's nba would be a 1st team all nba center averaging 40/15/12

:roll:

Bird peaked in a very friendly offensive era. He would thrive in this era, but I don't see his numbers being that much better than they were back then.

[Phoenix]

if he did it for stretches in a legit big man era like 1995 then he would do it consistently today

https://i.ibb.co/Xscqr8q/Screenshot-20221219-175759-Gallery.jpg

Doing it for 20-30 games or whatever the count is above and doing it year over year are two different things, especially when considering being the focal point which he never was.

[FultzNationRISE]

boris diaw in today's league would average 20/10/9

Thats not really a knock on today’s league, Diaw was a hell of a talent. He was one of those guys like Baron and Sheed who didnt really care about being all time great players, but could have been if they did.

If Joker is a seven foot Diaw who cares about winning… thats a pretty good thing.

[Yeezy]

Doing it for 20-30 games or whatever the count is above and doing it year over year are two different things, especially when considering being the focal point which he never was.

you obviously missed the entire context of the argument


doing it for 30 games vs 7 foot legit big men would translate to a full seasons worth against today's putrid centers

[Yeezy]

bird peaked in a very friendly offensive era. He would thrive in this era, but i don't see his numbers being that much better than they were back then.

ok 37/12/10

[Jasper]

all time
did you say 'all time '
are you really telling me 'all time'

I'd put him at about 25 in centers and 60 on all-time list.

/

[Phoenix]

you obviously missed the entire context of the argument


doing it for 30 games vs 7 foot legit big men would translate to a full seasons worth against today's putrid centers

The argument wasn't missed, it was just dumb at its core. Being the 'keys to the game' focus of a defense which Joker is, and Divac never was, are two different things. Who do you think his primary competition would be today?

[1987_Lakers]

divac would average 20/15/8 today

Imagine thinking Divac is averaging 15 rpg today, or even 8 apg. :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

Imagine thinking Divac is averaging 15 rpg today, or even 8 apg. :oldlol:

Yeah, I don't think dropping 20ppg in the right situation is out there, but 15 rebounds? Lol no.

[Yeezy]

Imagine thinking Divac is averaging 15 rpg today, or even 8 apg. :oldlol:

he would. his role was miniscule back then compared to what it would be today. his minutes would go up because he would be the leader of a team. his rebounds would easily go from 10 per 36min to 14/15 with small ball centers instead of fighting for them vs guys like shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing

he would be his teams top playmaker. 7/8 assists would be the minimum.. and 20 points is a fair assessment

[ShawkFactory]

he would. his role was miniscule back then compared to what it would be today. his minutes would go up because he would be the leader of a team. his rebounds would easily go from 10 per 36min to 14/15 with small ball centers instead of fighting for them vs guys like shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing

he would be his teams top playmaker. 7/8 assists would be the minimum.. and 20 points is a fair assessment

He had several seasons playing 34-35 mpg.

[John8204]

all time
did you say 'all time '
are you really telling me 'all time'

I'd put him at about 25 in centers and 60 on all-time list.

/

60 All-time makes sense he's top 15 for centers maybe top 10 for "offensive" centers.

But people really are being prisoners of the moment here for a guy that doesn't have a ring, and hasn't gotten close. Dan Issel has roughly the same numbers and nobody cares about Dan Issel

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/isselda01.html

[Yeezy]

Yeah, I don't think dropping 20ppg in the right situation is out there, but 15 rebounds? Lol no.

literally anyone can average 20ppg in the right situation today. it's not even a lot

https://i.ibb.co/tQ14tff/Screenshot-20221219-185048-Gallery.jpg


an agile 7 footer that can average 11rpg in 1994 can easily add 3 or 4 more playing today

pace was way down in 94 too


teams would have games of 85 to 79 routinely... now it's 115 to 110

[Phoenix]

he would. his role was miniscule back then compared to what it would be today. his minutes would go up because he would be the leader of a team. his rebounds would easily go from 10 per 36min to 14/15 with small ball centers instead of fighting for them vs guys like shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing

he would be his teams top playmaker. 7/8 assists would be the minimum.. and 20 points is a fair assessment

Based on what? How do you know what team he'd be on to say he'd be the leader and top playmaker? Suppose he was on the Warriors, the Bucks, the Celtics, the Mavs. You're saying he's going to average 4 more rebounds than Jokic.

[Phoenix]

literally anyone can average 20ppg in the right situation today. it's not even a lot

https://i.ibb.co/tQ14tff/Screenshot-20221219-185048-Gallery.jpg

Which is why I say based on where he's playing it's not out of the realm of possibility/likelihood. He's not grabbing 15 boards, in order to get 7-8 assists he's probably going to be out on the perimeter/pitch post area alot meaning he's not going to be in position to grab 15 boards.

[Yeezy]

Based on what? How do you know what team he'd be on to say he'd be the leader and top playmaker? Suppose he was on the Warriors, the Bucks, the Celtics, the Mavs. You're saying he's going to average 4 more rebounds than Jokic.

vlade is looked at as one of the top 5 big man passers of all time you nitwit


he would be the focal point of an offense in today's league. he had long range abilities too. agile. handles. he had it all. you're absolutely clueless


he played in a real big man era at a time when foreign guys weren't given much credibility. in today's league he would be a top 5 mvp candidate lol

[Phoenix]

vlade is looked at as one of the top 5 big man passers of all time you nitwit


he would be the focal point of an offense in today's league. he had long range abilities too. agile. handles. he had it all. you're absolutely clueless


he played in a real big man era at a time when foreign guys weren't given much credibility

Again, that depends on the team jackass. You put him on the teams I mentioned. No, he's not going to be the focal point you fukking c*nt. Focal point over Steph? Giannis? Luka? The 15 boards thing is laughable. 20 points? On the right team, sure. Anyone can score 20 today like you said.

You're an idiot.

[post]

eventually someone like jokic will shoot like curry

[1987_Lakers]

vlade is looked at as one of the top 5 big man passers of all time you nitwit

Divac was on the same level as a passer as Pau Gasol. You have to be an extraordinary passer from the C spot like Walton or Jokic to run your offense through you.

[FultzNationRISE]

vlade is looked at as one of the top 5 big man passers of all time you nitwit


he would be the focal point of an offense in today's league. he had long range abilities too. agile. handles. he had it all. you're absolutely clueless


he played in a real big man era at a time when foreign guys weren't given much credibility. in today's league he would be a top 5 mvp candidate lol


Vlade would probably more closely resemble Domantas Sabonis, who's currently averaging a well rounded 18/12/6.

Joker is just a bigger dude, which allows him to bully more, which also opens even more passing opportunities. Sure there are guys in the past who have comparable styles, but it doesnt mean they can do it to the same level. People say Pippen and Lebron have similar skill sets and body types (*wink*) but that doesnt mean Pippen could ever dominate to the extent Lebron does.

[Yeezy]

Again, that depends on the team jackass. You put him on the teams I mentioned. No, he's not going to be the focal point you fukking c*nt. Focal point over Steph? Giannis? Luka?

You're an idiot.

prime divac would be the best player on these teams right now

- New York
- Toronto
- Chicago
- Cleveland
- Utah
- Orlando ( for a year or 2 at least )
- Indiana
- Washington
- Detroit
- Charlotte
- OKC
- Sanantonio
- Houston


and you could trade him with the best player on these teams and they wouldn't be much worse. in most cases possibly better

- Denver
- Miami
- Atlanta
- Lakers
- Minnesota

[1987_Lakers]

prime divac would be the best player on these teams right now

- New York
- Toronto
- Chicago
- Cleveland
- Utah
- Orlando
- Indiana
- Washington
- Detroit
- Charlotte
- OKC
- Sanantonio
- Houston


and you could trade him with the best player on these teams and they wouldn't be much worse

- Denver
- Miami
- Atlanta
- Lakers
- Minnesota

:roll:

[Yeezy]

Vlade would probably more closely resemble Domantas Sabonis, who's currently averaging a well rounded 18/12/6.

Joker is just a bigger dude, which allows him to bully more, which also opens even more passing opportunities. Sure there are guys in the past who have comparable styles, but it doesnt mean they can do it to the same level. People say Pippen and Lebron have similar skill sets and body types (*wink*) but that doesnt mean Pippen could ever dominate to the extent Lebron does.

vlade held his own vs 7 foot 300 pound Legends. I think he would be the bully today like jokic

[Yeezy]

:roll:

a 38 year old stiff is averaging a near 30 point triple double in your soft ass league lol


a fat adult baby with down syndrome is a near 3 time back to back to back league mvp and can put up 40/25/10 games

the nba is officially a joke

[ShawkFactory]

prime divac would be the best player on these teams right now

- New York
- Toronto
- Chicago
- Cleveland
- Utah
- Orlando ( for a year or 2 at least )
- Indiana
- Washington
- Detroit
- Charlotte
- OKC
- Sanantonio
- Houston


and you could trade him with the best player on these teams and they wouldn't be much worse. in most cases possibly better

- Denver
- Miami
- Atlanta
- Lakers
- Minnesota

Holy shit :lol

[Phoenix]

prime divac would be the best player on these teams right now

- New York
- Toronto
- Chicago
- Cleveland
- Utah
- Orlando ( for a year or 2 at least )
- Indiana
- Washington
- Detroit
- Charlotte
- OKC
- Sanantonio
- Houston


and you could trade him with the best player on these teams and they wouldn't be much worse. in most cases possibly better

- Denver
- Miami
- Atlanta
- Lakers
- Minnesota

No, that wouldn't be the case for a quite a few of those teams. Right off the top no, he's not going to be better than Mitchell in Cleveland, Derozan in Chicago,Beal, or SGA. Otherwise, you have no idea what the team roster would be to say he's dropping 15 and 8 rebounds/assists.

[Phoenix]

Holy shit :lol

Yeah fukk me, I actually gave that a serious reply. That emooji is basically all I needed.

[Yeezy]

No, that wouldn't be the case for a quite a few of those teams. Right off the top no, he's not going to be better than Mitchell in Cleveland, Derozan in Chicago,Beal, or SGA. Otherwise, you have no idea what the team roster would be to say he's dropping 15 and 8 rebounds/assists.

would he score more than Mitchell? no.. but I thought you guys didn't judge value just based on scoring

[Yeezy]

pudgy unathletic white guy with no definition on verge of 3 straight league mvps after near 50/30/15 game


"divac wouldn't be better than Donovan Mitchell today"

:roll:

[Phoenix]

pudgy unathletic white guy with no definition on verge of 3 straight league mvps after near 50/30/15 game


"divac wouldn't be better than Donovan Mitchell today"

:roll:

I don't know what there is to laugh at. You're equating Vlade with Joker and just saying he played in the wrong era. He's not remotely close just on the basis of having some transferrable skills to the modern game. Again, there is no reference point for Vlade in a lead role to say he scales up to that in the current league with Joker level production. Actually why the fukk am I still answering you seriously?

[Yeezy]

inb4 joker puts up 81/30/25 on someone's ass

https://i.ibb.co/PZTbZFz/Screenshot-20221219-192054-Gallery.jpg

[Yeezy]

I don't what there is to laugh at. You're equating Vlade with Joker and just saying he played in the wrong era. He's not remotely close just on the basis of having some transferrable skills to the modern game. Again, there is no reference point for Vlade in a lead role to say he scales up to that in the current league with Joker level production. Actually why the fukk am I still answering you seriously?

when you institute freedom of movement, no hand checking, go to a small ball system with 6'5/6'6 centers half the game... you turn a guy like vlade divac into a nikola jokic

you could body up guys before. not anymore. now you just have to let a 300 pound slow guy waddle into the paint for an easy floater

[Yeezy]

https://youtu.be/n3uaJn7H2y0


like playing against children that aren't allowed to breathe on you

:roll:


it's like he's playing on a playschool net with his neighbors kids


it's so unbelievably bad

[Yeezy]

no wonder luka said the nba is dog shit compared to Euroleague

:roll:

[RRR3]

Kenny saying Divac is as good as Jokic, Jimmy Butler and Anthony Davis is one of the most insane things he’s ever said. If he was smart he’s realize he just said LeBron won a ring with a Vlade Divac level player as his support. But he’s not smart.

[RRR3]

I don't know what there is to laugh at. You're equating Vlade with Joker and just saying he played in the wrong era. He's not remotely close just on the basis of having some transferrable skills to the modern game. Again, there is no reference point for Vlade in a lead role to say he scales up to that in the current league with Joker level production. Actually why the fukk am I still answering you seriously?
He’s a bitter old man who longs for the past, so he overrates the shit out of past players.

[Yeezy]

Kenny saying Divac is as good as Jokic, Jimmy Butler and Anthony Davis is one of the most insane things he’s ever said. If he was smart he’s realize he just said LeBron won a ring with a Vlade Divac level player as his support. But he’s not smart.


https://youtu.be/al_cD-_bDmo

:roll:

[Yeezy]

it actually shocks me that lebron fans are this f*cking blind or ignorant


there's almost nothing impressive about these highlights

shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, mutombo send all his pathetic attempts into the 5th row


:lol

[Yeezy]

Jimmy Butler


https://i.ibb.co/dr8nPyB/Screenshot-20221219-210243-Chrome.jpg

give me jimmy before this happened


and I didn't say divac is better than any of these people. I said their teams would be just as good if not better cause divacs style translates better to today's era

Jimmy's more of a 90s guy tbh


as for AD or lebron. divac would actually play