Dame concedes #1 shooter spot to Steph and wants you to agree that he gets #2.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2212200721410318.jpeg

[Yeezy]

hes up there in terms of difficult shot makers for sure

depends on how you look at it. is it while contested or open. otherwise guys like Steve Kerr would be ahead of him

[Xiao Yao You]

hes up there in terms of difficult shot makers for sure

depends on how you look at it. is it while contested or open. otherwise guys like Steve Kerr would be ahead of him

Kerr didn't play enough to be in the conversation

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah, one season above 40% from 3, never shot higher than 46% from the field, so many guys I'd consider over him besides Steph.

Bird
KD
Dirk
Nash
Allen
Reggie
Klay

[Yeezy]

Kerr didn't play enough to be in the conversation


soooo...Kyle korver?

he played a lot

or is it just for #1 options that actually face defensive pressure


see this is the problem

[Yeezy]

Nah, one season above 40% from 3, never shot higher than 46% from the field, so many guys I'd consider over him besides Steph.

Bird
KD
Dirk
Nash
Allen
Reggie
Klay

oh it's a superstars only ranking

well that clears it up


Drazen petrovic is #2

[Xiao Yao You]

soooo...Kyle korver?

he played a lot

or is it just for #1 options that actually face defensive pressure


see this is the problem

Korver was a great shooter at high volume. Kerr took 1 or 2 wide open 3's a game

[tontoz]

I like Dame but 2nd best ever? Just in today's game is he better than Klay? Kat?

It is a pretty tough sell to me. When I consider guys like Ray/Reggie/Dirk/Nash I am not sure if he is even on their tier.

Sure he is really good at creating his shot off the dribble and is big time.clutch. He makes a lot of tough shots but....nah

[Yeezy]

only 3 guys other than curry in the top 20 all time in three point percentage that actually faced defensive pressure

https://i.ibb.co/QvXGctM/Screenshot-20221219-213409-Gallery.jpg


would have to be one of them

[FultzNationRISE]

It's obviously subjective. Steph is actually a very rare case where there is a consensus, clear-cut, no real debate "best" at something (in the regular season.)

In most cases talk of 'number 1' and 'second best' and 'top 10' people do, as if rankings are concretely hierarchical, one after another, is senseless.

There is no right answer to who the second best shooter ever is. Theres a bunch of guys you could make an argument for. It'd be impossible to separate one from the rest.

[iamgine]

I don't have a problem with this if he means 3 point shooter. Just like Steph, Dame has the volume, difficulty, range and percentage. Having all four qualities is quite rare.

[tontoz]

It's obviously subjective. Steph is actually a very rare case where there is a consensus, clear-cut, no real debate "best" at something (in the regular season.)

In most cases talk of 'number 1' and 'second best' and 'top 10' people do, as if rankings are concretely hierarchical, one after another, is senseless.

There is no right answer to who the second best shooter ever is. Theres a bunch of guys you could make an argument for. It'd be impossible to separate one from the rest.

In the regular season? Are you trying to say someone is better in the playoffs?

Who is better?

[Axe]

He sounds like a career loser telling this shit.

[StrongLurk]

Nah Dame isn't number two...shooting isn't just long three point shots.

[FultzNationRISE]

In the regular season? Are you trying to say someone is better in the playoffs?

Who is better?


Meh, Steph's post season history is filled with injury-riddled opponents, and in the Finals especially, garbage time stat padding.

If you go by eye test, he's not as dominant in the playoffs as he is in the regular season. There's no question about that. Of course that's true for a lot of shooters, because defense simply gets better in the playoffs.

If you really need a three-level scorer to rely on throughout the course of a must-win series... it's Lebron.

Lebron is the best shooter ever, there I said it.

[Axe]

Meh, Steph's post season history is filled with injury-riddled opponents, and in the Finals especially, garbage time stat padding.

If you go by eye test, he's not as dominant in the playoffs as he is in the regular season. There's no question about that. Of course that's true for a lot of shooters, because defense simply gets better in the playoffs.

If you really need a three-level scorer to rely on throughout the course of a must-win series... it's Lebron.

Lebron is the best shooter ever, there I said it.
Lol louder.

[Chuckbe]

Off the dribble, Dame, Steph, who else?

[Yeezy]

Off the dribble, Dame, Steph, who else?

petrovic > dame (off the dribble)



https://youtu.be/l4UE451ZIkc

[Chuckbe]

petrovic > dame (off the dribble)



https://youtu.be/l4UE451ZIkc

Bro, I ain't tryna watch this shit. Show me his shooting or gtfo

[Yeezy]

Bro, I ain't tryna watch this shit. Show me his shooting or gtfo

you're lazy these days steven

[Xiao Yao You]

I don't have a problem with this if he means 3 point shooter. Just like Steph, Dame has the volume, difficulty, range and percentage. Having all four qualities is quite rare.

Curry is the only one that shoots a high % on deep 3's. Dame shoots them but not efficiently.

[tontoz]

Meh, Steph's post season history is filled with injury-riddled opponents, and in the Finals especially, garbage time stat padding.

If you go by eye test, he's not as dominant in the playoffs as he is in the regular season. There's no question about that. Of course that's true for a lot of shooters, because defense simply gets better in the playoffs.

If you really need a three-level scorer to rely on throughout the course of a must-win series... it's Lebron.

Lebron is the best shooter ever, there I said it.

So a guy who shoots 33.7% from 3 in the playoffs is the best playoff shooter ever?

You've definitely had your nose up Lebron's anus too long.

:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

So a guy who shoots 33.7% from 3 in the playoffs is the best playoff shooter ever?

You've definitely had your nose up Lebron's anus too long.

:roll:
Do you REALLY not get that he's just doing a gimmick :lol

[hold this L]

Meh, Steph's post season history is filled with injury-riddled opponents, and in the Finals especially, garbage time stat padding.

If you go by eye test, he's not as dominant in the playoffs as he is in the regular season. There's no question about that. Of course that's true for a lot of shooters, because defense simply gets better in the playoffs.

If you really need a three-level scorer to rely on throughout the course of a must-win series... it's Lebron.

Lebron is the best shooter ever, there I said it.
The guy whose a 33% career shooter from 3 and a terrible FT shooter? Yeah you did say it, but you're also mentally deranged.

[RRR3]

The guy whose a 33% career shooter from 3 and a terrible FT shooter? Yeah you did say it, but you're also mentally deranged.
73.4% isn’t terrible by any stretch of the imagination and he’s obviously baiting. He doesn’t even like LeBron and you idiots fall for it every time.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He's not even the best Curry.

Seth holds that title and I'm partial to Dell. Steph is third of his own family.

Klay is easily number 1. Arguments for 2 can be made for guys like Allen, KD, Korver, Bird, LeBron, Nash..

[tontoz]

He's not even the best Curry.

Seth holds that title and I'm partial to Dell. Steph is third of his own family.

Klay is easily number 1. Arguments for 2 can be made for guys like Allen, KD, Korver, Bird, LeBron, Nash..

:facepalm

Steph has made over 1000 more 3s than Klay with a higher percentage. Steph also shoots better from midrange and the foul line.



https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/Inside%20Hoops/.highres/snoophateradelogo.gif

[Overdrive]

oh it's a superstars only ranking

well that clears it up


Drazen petrovic is #2

It's not about superstars. Shooting is more than spotting up for 3. Korver is definately the best spot up 3pt shooter ever.

[Hey Yo]

:facepalm

Steph has made over 1000 more 3s than Klay with a higher percentage. Steph also shoots better from midrange and the foul line.



https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/Inside%20Hoops/.highres/snoophateradelogo.gif

For Curry's career, only 7% of his FGA are from mid-range. Last time he was in double digits for a season was his 2nd season.

Klay's career for mid-range is 13% and the only season he was in single digits was his rookie year.

Steph has never established himself as great mid-range shooter cause he simply hasn't shot enough of them.

That's why he's considered the best 3pt shooter by far. There are other players I would choose when it comes to all around shooting ability.

[tontoz]

For Curry's career, only 7% of his FGA are from mid-range. Last time he was in double digits for a season was his 2nd season.

Klay's career for mid-range is 13% and the only season he was in single digits was his rookie year.

Steph has never established himself as great mid-range shooter cause he simply hasn't shot enough of them.

That's why he's considered the best 3pt shooter by far. There are other players I would choose when it comes to all around shooting ability.

For his career 23% of Stephs shots come between 10 feet to the 3 point line. He's played 850 regular season games in his career. I think that is a pretty big sample size.

[Hey Yo]

For his career 23% of Stephs shots come between 10 feet to the 3 point line. He's played 850 regular season games in his career. I think that is a pretty big sample size.

So you're saying there's no such thing as a long 2?

Midrange to you is between 10 feet and the 3pt line?

[tontoz]

So you're saying there's no such thing as a long 2?

Midrange to you is between 10 feet and the 3pt line?


:facepalm


All shots count. When i said midrange i was referring to jumpers inside the 3 pt line. For his career Steph shoots 46% from 10-16 feet and from 16 to 23 feet. I seriously doubt a bigger sample would result in a significant drop in his percentage from a shorter distance.

[Hey Yo]

:facepalm


All shots count. When i said midrange i was referring to jumpers inside the 3 pt line. For his career Steph shoots 46% from 10-16 feet and from 16 to 23 feet. I seriously doubt a bigger sample would result in a significant drop in his percentage from a shorter distance.

Well, your midrange definition is definitely different than others.

If I need a basket between 10-16ft, I'm taking MJ, Bird, Dirk,, KD etc..... before choosing Steph.

[tontoz]

Well, your midrange definition is definitely different than others.

If I need a basket between 10-16ft, I'm taking MJ, Bird, Dirk,, KD etc..... before choosing Steph.

That is a separate argument. Those guys are taller with a higher release so it is easier for them to get their shot off.


Secondly 10-16 feet is a low volume shot for most players, not just Steph, and is therefore less significant than 16-3pt. Lebron only took 9.7% of his attempts from 10-16 feet, but took 19% of his shots from 16-3pt. Of course he sucks at both. Dirk was a prolific midrange shooter but also took more shots from 16-3pt.

[Hey Yo]

That is a separate argument. Those guys are taller with a higher release so it is easier for them to get their shot off.


Secondly 10-16 feet is a low volume shot for most players, not just Steph, and is therefore less significant than 16-3pt. Lebron only took 9.7% of his attempts from 10-16 feet, but took 19% of his shots from 16-3pt. Of course he sucks at both. Dirk was a prolific midrange shooter but also took more shots from 16-3pt.

There's no separate argument when someone calls a player "the best shooter ever"

I never claimed James was the best shooter ever, so you bringing him up is this thread is useless and dumb.

If I need a basket from anywhere on the floor, I'm taking Dirk, Bird or KD. When you need a 3.... Steph is your guy aka best 3pt shooter ever.

[tontoz]

There's no separate argument when someone calls a player "the best shooter ever"

I never claimed James was the best shooter ever, so you bringing him up is this thread is useless and dumb.

If I need a basket from anywhere on the floor, I'm taking Dirk, Bird or KD. When you need a 3.... Steph is your guy aka best 3pt shooter ever.


:roll:

First you say that Steph's sample size is too small then you talk about "if i need a basket"....one basket? Do you really not see the problem here? :facepalm

[Hey Yo]

Yes, Steph's midrange game is a very small sample size over his career, that's been established. Then you moved the goalposts and made it "10ft to the 3pt line"

Explain how using taller and better midrange shooters is considered a separate argument when it comes to calling s player the best shooter ever?

If you want to call him the best (_____ <-- insert his height here) shooter ever, you won't get an argument from me.

[tontoz]

Yes, Steph's midrange game is a very small sample size over his career, that's been established. Then you moved the goalposts and made it "10ft to the 3pt line"

Explain how using taller and better midrange shooters is considered a separate argument when it comes to calling s player the best shooter ever?

If you want to call him the best (_____ <-- insert his height here) shooter ever, you won't get an argument from me.


When judging the best shooter you have to look at all the shots. You seem to have some fascination with 10-16 feet which happens to be the lowest volume shot for most players. That makes no sense.

Steph has played 852 games in the regular season, 134 in the playoffs. Sample size is not an issue at this point and hasn't been for a long time.

When talking about "one basket" it isn't just about a players shooting ability. One basket can be a dunk or layup. Also one basket is also about the ability to get off the shot over defenders. It was almost impossible to block a jumper from Dirk/KD/Bird so they are more likely to get off a good shot if you just want one basket, but that is a separate argument.

Best shooter is who has shot the best over time, not who is the best to make "one basket". :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

. Best shooter is who has shot the best over time, not who is the best to make "one basket". :facepalm



You can’t really set someone else’s criteria only give your own.

The shooting question has always been tricky. You like me are old enough to remember that even when the NBA had a three-point line, the best shooter wasn’t considered the guy who made the most threes or hit the highest percentage. Chris Mullins peak scoring season he scored 27 a game but he shot 23% from 3 and barely took any. We just…knew he could shoot because he was…shooting his ass off. Or even when bird was known to make threes It was still tough shot making that really gave him his reputation as a shooter.

The percentages over a great period of time is certainly a valid way to look at it, but plenty of role players will take thousands of threes and make a better percentage than stars when they are a way worse option to go make a shot.


Is this “shooting”?


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HonorableCalculatingIndianhare-size_restricted.gif





I would say so but most of the people who shoot the best percentages from three can’t do it, so where do we make the separation? Does it stop being shooting when it requires other aspects of the game to work? Is it only shooting when uncontested and clean?

When you’re under 6’4”?

I feel like “shooting” should be a bigger tent than a lot of fans want to make it.

Isn’t everything but a layup or dunk shooting? We used to say guys with nice post fades were good shooters. I don’t know how to define it so everyone is happy.

[Hey Yo]

Ok... 100 midrange shots or whatever # you want to use instead of just 1, I'm still taking those I listed over Steph.

When you're using every player who has played in the NBA, there is no separate argument regardless of height, weight, wing span etc... when people call a player "the best shooter or the best at anything for that matter.

Not sure why you're having such a hard time understanding that there is no criteria when it comes to claiming a player is the best at something. Either he is or he isn't, that's the argument.

You bringing height into the situation and saying other players have an advantage, proves you don't think he's the best shooter ever. If you thought he was, height wouldn't have been brought up.

[tontoz]

Ok... 100 midrange shots or whatever # you want to use instead of just 1, I'm still taking those I listed over Steph.

When you're using every player who has played in the NBA, there is no separate argument regardless of height, weight, wing span etc... when people call a player "the best shooter or the best at anything for that matter.

Not sure why you're having such a hard time understanding that there is no criteria when it comes to claiming a player is the best at something. Either he is or he isn't, that's the argument.

You bringing height into the situation and saying other players have an advantage, proves you don't think he's the best shooter ever. If you thought he was, height wouldn't have been brought up.



Geez you are dumb. You have to take all jumpers into account when determining the best shooter. Just focusing on 10-16 feet makes no sense, especially since so many guys take more shots from 16-3pt than 10-16.

You brought height into the argument, not me. It is easier for a tall guy to get a shot off. That is just common sense and all the guys you brought up are tall. Of course it is easier for them to get off "one shot". Duh

[tontoz]

You can’t really set someone else’s criteria only give your own.

The shooting question has always been tricky. You like me are old enough to remember that even when the NBA had a three-point line, the best shooter wasn’t considered the guy who made the most threes or hit the highest percentage. Chris Mullins peak scoring season he scored 27 a game but he shot 23% from 3 and barely took any. We just…knew he could shoot because he was…shooting his ass off. Or even when bird was known to make threes It was still tough shot making that really gave him his reputation as a shooter.

The percentages over a great period of time is certainly a valid way to look at it, but plenty of role players will take thousands of threes and make a better percentage than stars when they are a way worse option to go make a shot.


Is this “shooting”?


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HonorableCalculatingIndianhare-size_restricted.gif





I would say so but most of the people who shoot the best percentages from three can’t do it, so where do we make the separation? Does it stop being shooting when it requires other aspects of the game to work? Is it only shooting when uncontested and clean?

When you’re under 6’4”?

I feel like “shooting” should be a bigger tent than a lot of fans want to make it.

Isn’t everything but a layup or dunk shooting? We used to say guys with nice post fades were good shooters. I don’t know how to define it so everyone is happy.



Sure Dirk's ability to make heavily contested 2s puts him on the short list of greatest shooters ever, which is why i listed him on page 1.

Volume and efficiency have to be considered when judging the best shooters ever. Kerr was a great shooter but so low volume that i can't consider him among the best ever.

There are different ways to be a high volume shooter. Dirk did it by just shooting over people. Curry does it off the dribble but also by moving without the ball, something a lot of guys don't do.

[Hey Yo]

Geez you are dumb. You have to take all jumpers into account when determining the best shooter. Just focusing on 10-16 feet makes no sense, especially since so many guys take more shots from 16-3pt than 10-16.

You brought height into the argument, not me. It is easier for a tall guy to get a shot off. That is just common sense and all the guys you brought up are tall. Of course it is easier for them to get off "one shot". Duh
You're the one who brought up Steph's midrange not me. Then you moved the goalposts to "all shots from 10ft to the 3pt line" after I showed his 7% career midrange attempts.

I listed players, you listed their height and said they had/have an advantage. So tell us again who brought up height, chico??

[Kblaze8855]

I don’t care about the volume as much as the difficulty. Look at a guy like Kobe. He is never in these discussions but even throwing out all the layups and dunks? Take most of the guys in these top 10 lists and he has to take the shots they took, and they have to take the shots he took? For the most part I feel like he could replicate them better than they could replicate him.

Do we no longer call it shooting if it’s falling away over a double team from 19 feet? It feels like most people are more comfortable calling that scoring than shooting but to me if you have to flick your wrist at the basket and throw the ball into it from 20 feet you just took a shot regardless.

and the guy like say, Korver or Hubert Davis could not do it. Just his natural advantage in size mean it doesn’t count as shooting anymore? The athleticism to get it off? If we are throwing out people for their advantages, isn’t the hand eye coordination of the entire curry family an advantage? Do you have any idea how good Steph Curry is at golf? Ever read anything about the tests that were run on the hand eye coordination of guys like Jordan or even Babe Ruth? Some people are just freaks.

But they still count. It feels like we don’t wanna count some people who do things a certain way.

I get why the numbers have to factor in but to me difficulty has to as well.

[tontoz]

You're the one who brought up Steph's midrange not me. Then you moved the goalposts to "all shots from 10ft to the 3pt line" after I showed his 7% career midrange attempts.

I listed players, you listed their height and said they had/have an advantage. So tell us again who brought up height, chico??


First of all i was comparing Steph to Klay on ALL SHOTS including midrange. For whatever reason you chose to focus on midrange as if that is somehow more significant than other shots.

Secondly you are the one moving the goalposts with "If I need a basket from anywhere on the floor, I'm taking Dirk, Bird or KD." Anywhere on the floor could easily be a dunk or layup, and "best shooter ever" is a separate argument from "who would i pick to make one shot". KD/Bird/Dirk are all tall so it is easier for them to get off a shot. Duh

[tontoz]

I don’t care about the volume as much as the difficulty. Look at a guy like Kobe. He is never in these discussions but even throwing out all the layups and dunks? Take most of the guys in these top 10 lists and he has to take the shots they took, and they have to take the shots he took? For the most part I feel like he could replicate them better than they could replicate him.

Do we no longer call it shooting if it’s falling away over a double team from 19 feet? It feels like most people are more comfortable calling that scoring than shooting but to me if you have to flick your wrist at the basket and throw the ball into it from 20 feet you just took a shot regardless.

and the guy like say, Korver or Hubert Davis could not do it. Just his natural advantage in size mean it doesn’t count as shooting anymore? The athleticism to get it off? If we are throwing out people for their advantages, isn’t the hand eye coordination of the entire curry family an advantage? Do you have any idea how good Steph Curry is at golf? Ever read anything about the tests that were run on the hand eye coordination of guys like Jordan or even Babe Ruth? Some people are just freaks.

But they still count. It feels like we don’t wanna count some people who do things a certain way.

I get why the numbers have to factor in but to me difficulty has to as well.



Taking tough shots that you consistently shoot poorly is just dumb. Dirk could make contested fadeaways at a good rate so they were good shots for him.

Kobe liked to take shots that he shot poorly. Luka does the same thing now on a lot of his 3s. That is just bad basketball.

[Hey Yo]

First of all i was comparing Steph to Klay on ALL SHOTS including midrange. For whatever reason you chose to focus on midrange as if that is somehow more significant than other shots.

Secondly you are the one moving the goalposts with "If I need a basket from anywhere on the floor, I'm taking Dirk, Bird or KD." Anywhere on the floor could easily be a dunk or layup, and "best shooter ever" is a separate argument from "who would i pick to make one shot". KD/Bird/Dirk are all tall so it is easier for them to get off a shot. Duh

I already knew Steph was a better 3pt shooter than Klay and then you said he had a better midrange game too. That's when I chimed in about comparing their midrange games.

You know damn well I wasn't referring to dunks and layups when talking about shooting. I already reiterated that it could be 100 shots or however many you want, I'm still taking the guys I listed over Steph

"when talking midrange, I was counting 10ft to the 3 point line"

those guys are taller and have an advantage"


Yeah..... I'm the one moving the goalposts :lol


My points stand.... I'm done with you, bozo.

[tontoz]

I already knew Steph was a better 3pt shooter than Klay and then you said he had a better midrange game too. That's when I chimed in about comparing their midrange games.

You know damn well I wasn't referring to dunks and layups when talking about shooting. I already reiterated that it could be 100 shots or however many you want, I'm still taking the guys I listed over Steph

"when talking midrange, I was counting 10ft to the 3 point line"

those guys are taller and have an advantage"


Yeah..... I'm the one moving the goalposts :lol


My points stand.... I'm done with you, bozo.


Maybe you should start a separate thread for who is the best from 10-16 feet for one shot. Then your posts would make more sense.

[Axe]

Taking tough shots that you consistently shoot poorly is just dumb. Dirk could make contested fadeaways at a good rate so they were good shots for him.

Kobe liked to take shots that he shot poorly. Luka does the same thing now on a lot of his 3s. That is just bad basketball.
That's one of the reasons why he used to call himself a hardworker.