Bulls locker room bust up has Zach Lavine on the way out

[PeroAntic]

Reports are that several Bulls players attacked Lavine for lack of effort. If he is on the trade block what would be the best destination?

[PP34Deuce]

I'm in Chicago and the dissappointment is his attitude. He believes he's elite but doesn't carry himself that way. Derozan was supposed to be the 2nd option and feeding off Lavine.

[Full Court]

Good. Bulls are my team, and Lavine has to go. He's overrated and a team cancer. Hopefully the Bulls can get something good in a trade.

[Xiao Yao You]

Good. Bulls are my team, and Lavine has to go. He's overrated and a team cancer. Hopefully the Bulls can get something good in a trade.

he got paid

[Kblaze8855]

I’ve been a Bulls fan since Jerry Sloan was the coach(not that I have much memory of that) and I’ve never cared less about the team than I have the last few years. I’m not sure he’s the reason why but I don’t think he’s even going to register long-term as a bulls player in my memory. Can’t put my finger on why. That guy is really ****ing skilled, and more of a throwback skills wise than he seems but something is just off.

Give me Ben Gordon over Lavine as an all time Bull.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Reports are that several Bulls players attacked Lavine for lack of effort. If he is on the trade block what would be the best destination?

A team where they don't care about effort?

[Full Court]

A team where they don't care about effort?

Lol. So true.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Having thought on it a little is Lakers for Westbrook reasonable? Bulls get an expiring deal and a good player in an area of need (depending on how they feel about Ball's recovery). Lakers meanwhile want shooting and love players with some fame (Lavine is less known than Westbrook but still known). And he went to UCLA which may matter to some fans (yes so did Westbrook).

[RRR3]

Having thought on it a little is Lakers for Westbrook reasonable? Bulls get an expiring deal and a good player in an area of need (depending on how they feel about Ball's recovery). Lakers meanwhile want shooting and love players with some fame (Lavine is less known than Westbrook but still known). And he went to UCLA which may matter to some fans (yes so did Westbrook).
What universe are you living in if you think Westbrook is good? This isn’t 2015. Bulls wouldn’t do that without two picks attached minimum.

[RachlNicholsazz]

Everyone knew it was a huge gamble to give Lavine and Bradley Beal big contracts but they did it anyway. You don't give borderline all stars on mediocre teams max contracts unless they possess a unique skill set. The Suns played hardball with DA and I would have given him a max contract before Beal or Lavine.

Lavine's trade value is garbage with how many years he has left, how he's been playing and his attitude. Sorry Bulls but even you guys knew it was a mistake when you reluctantly handed him that contract.

[Real Men Wear Green]

What universe are you living in if you think Westbrook is good? This isn’t 2015. Bulls wouldn’t do that without two picks attached minimum.

You are not considering what a bad fit he is in LA. James teammates need to be floor spacers. His point guard can have the ability to create offense but it's not particularly useful because James is the point guard. Westbrook is coming off the bench because the main thing the Lakers need from a point guard is the worst part of his game. The Bulls would put the ball back in his hands and can actually use the things that he does well creating offense for himself and others. You are also not thinking about the issue Lavine's teammates have with him. They think he isn't trying. Getting that trust back is hard and so long as it's gone he's off no value to that team whatsoever with a huge contract that has years on it.

[Kblaze8855]

Everyone knew it was a huge gamble to give Lavine and Bradley Beal big contracts but they did it anyway. You don't give borderline all stars on mediocre teams max contracts unless they possess a unique skill set. The Suns played hardball with DA and I would have given him a max contract before Beal or Lavine.

Lavine's trade value is garbage with how many years he has left, how he's been playing and his attitude. Sorry Bulls but even you guys knew it was a mistake when you reluctantly handed him that contract.


The contract part doesn’t matter as much as fans think it does. Even without the new cba the current yearly revenue raises built into the right deals will make his 45 million roughly the same as giving Big Z or Keith Vanhorn their 12 million back in the day. We just haven’t wrapped our head around current borderline stars making more than entire teams used to.

There are so many of those giants deals they aren’t even hard to move anymore. Duncan Robinson and Norman Powell roughly equal Zach Lavine.

Im just talking about the basketball.

The money is nothing at this point. There’s a reason the suns just went for 4 billion dollars. The rights deals are getting so big everyone is flush. They’re gonna have to massively raise everybody’s pay just to keep the same percentage of revenue stipulated in the cba.

Teams sign these deals knowing they can get out from under it if they want. 45 million dollars a year is no longer an albatross contract.

[Axe]

Send him to the hornets even tho he won't do any shit rt.

[Kblaze8855]

And Lavine for Westbrook is a pretty reasonable deal for both sides. Just reset the Bulls buy Westbrook out for less than you’d have paid Zack and Lavine is the kinda guy who works as third option. Only issue is it seems people haven’t noticed the Lakers are 40 and then $50 million under the cap this off-season and next so they have tremendous flexibility with Westbrook expiring. They have space to sign Kyrie and try for another ring. Or overpay Seth Curry and 2-3 other elite role players to have a real team not just two players and scraps. Maybe offer Middleton the max. Who knows? Lots of better options than Lavine.

[RRR3]

You are not considering what a bad fit he is in LA. James teammates need to be floor spacers. His point guard can have the ability to create offense but it's not particularly useful because James is the point guard. Westbrook is coming off the bench because the main thing the Lakers need from a point guard is the worst part of his game. The Bulls would put the ball back in his hands and can actually use the things that he does well creating offense for himself and others. You are also not thinking about the issue Lavine's teammates have with him. They think he isn't trying. Getting that trust back is hard and so long as it's gone he's off no value to that team whatsoever with a huge contract that has years on it.
LeBron won a ring with a poor 3pt shooting team in 2020, so no he does not need his teammates to be floor spacers. He needs them to not be the worst player in the league and playing huge minutes. I’m not sure how you can possibly argue someone who’s efficiency is almost 10% below league average and is horrible at defense is even an ok player. Westbrook is a first ballot HOFer no doubt but he’s completely washed. Not surprisingly given his age and lack of skill relatively speaking.

[Real Men Wear Green]

LeBron won a ring with a poor 3pt shooting team in 2020, so no he does not need his teammates to be floor spacers. He needs them to not be the worst player in the league and playing huge minutes. I’m not sure how you can possibly argue someone who’s efficiency is almost 10% below league average and is horrible at defense is even an ok player. Westbrook is a first ballot HOFer no doubt but he’s completely washed. Not surprisingly given his age and lack of skill relatively speaking.

I'm not sure how you can call Westbrook the worst player in the league and expect to be taken seriously so we're even.

[Axe]

I'm not sure how you can call Westbrook the worst player in the league and expect to be taken seriously so we're even.
:roll:

[RRR3]

I'm not sure how you can call Westbrook the worst player in the league and expect to be taken seriously so we're even.
Out of 250 qualified players, he is tied for 225th in RAPTOR war. Most of the guys worse don’t have the offensive workload or even close. The Lakers were the best team in the west in 2020 and when healthy they were again in 2021. With Westbrook they’re not even .500. Do you even watch him play? What is he good at? Tell me how he helps the team because the data says he is killing them.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Out of 250 qualified players, he is tied for 225th in RAPTOR war. Most of the guys worse don’t have the offensive workload or even close. The Lakers were the best team in the west in 2020 and when healthy they were again in 2021. With Westbrook they’re not even .500. Do you even watch him play? What is he good at? Tell me how he helps the team because the data says he is killing them.

Do you watch him? He is still a high level athlete that can get to the basket. He is not valuable off the ball so he will look bad if he has to play with James. That's why he comes off the bench now. If he was in a team where he got the bsll and was surrounded by shooters he would be heading to the allstar game. He is limited in the style he can play but if a team gives him the ball and teammates that can create spacing he can play. He is basically a miniature Lebron with less ball IQ and that's why he doesn't work with that team.

And no I don't care about his "RAPTOR." I don't know how the number is generated and I would almost bet money that you don't know the real algorithm either. I didn't expect Westbrook to do well in LA because he's a bad fit. Raptor is another advanced metric that does a great job of telling us what we already know, that he's playing badly. It doesn't tell you why he's playing badly or what to do to make him play better and to me that makes it useless. You like it because you're a James Stan that just wants to blame his teammates whenever things are going badly.

[RRR3]

Do you watch him? He is still a high level athlete that can get to the basket. He is not valuable off the ball so he will look bad if he has to play with James. That's why he comes off the bench now. If he was in a team where he got to stay and was surrounded by shooters he would be heading to the allstar game. He is limited in the style he can play but if a team gives him the ball and teammates that can create spacing he can play. He is basically a miniature Lebron with less ball IQ and that's why he doesn't work with that team.

And no I don't care about his "RAPTOR." I don't know how the number is generated and I would almost bet money that you don't know the real algorithm either. I didn't expect Westbrook to do well in LA because he's a bad fit. Raptor is another advanced metric that does a great job of telling us what we already know, that he's playing badly. It doesn't tell you why he's playing badly or what to do to make him play better and to me that makes it useless. You like it because you're a James Stan that just wants to blame his teammates whenever things are going badly.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Oh my god. He literally had that in Washington and wasn’t an all-star and that was two years ago when he hadn’t declined and much as he has now. This has nothing to do with being a “James stan” it’s reality and backed up by data and the eye test. Unless you think a team with AD and LeBron would struggle to reach .500 without playing a guy who’s end of the bench level huge minutes and giving them a lot of touches….but we’ve seen that team and they won a ring and were the best team the next year when healthy as well. So unless you think LeBron has just turned into a terrible player, I don’t see who else is making them a shitty team.

[Kblaze8855]

I promise you whoever the worst player in the NBA is in any given season that person has never had 15 assists in a game while being it.

[Axe]

I promise you whoever the worst player in the NBA is in any given season that person has never had 15 assists in a game while being it.
Or any triple-doubles either for that very matter. Pfft.

[Real Men Wear Green]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Oh my god. He literally had that in Washington and wasn’t an all-star and that was two years ago when he hadn’t declined and much as he has now. This has nothing to do with being a “James stan” it’s reality and backed up by data and the eye test. Unless you think a team with AD and LeBron would struggle to reach .500 without playing a guy who’s end of the bench level huge minutes and giving them a lot of touches….but we’ve seen that team and they won a ring and were the best team the next year when healthy as well. So unless you think LeBron has just turned into a terrible player, I don’t see who else is making them a shitty team.

If you were paying attention you would know that James and Davis have both been missing games and that's especially bad for LA when Davis is out. In Washington Westbrook averaged a 20 point triple double. His numbers were on par with allstar.

Comparing the current Lakers to their last champ team is silly. Many of the players are different James and Davis can't stay healthy. You act like they're the exact same because you don't analyze the game you just warp reality around your agenda. Troll thinking isn't really thinking. You may as well be a bot.

[Axe]

If you were paying attention you would know that James and Davis have both been missing games and that's especially bad for LA when Davis is out. In Washington Westbrook averaged a 20 point triple double. His numbers were on par with allstar.

Comparing the current Lakers to their last champ team is silly. Many of the players are different James and Davis can't stay healthy. You act like they're the exact same because you don't analyze the game you just warp reality around your agenda. Troll thinking isn't really thinking. You may as well be a bot.
Wasn't frank vogel the coach of the 2020 championship team? Last i remembered, he was being scapegoated the previous season as well. :lol

[Real Men Wear Green]

And Lavine for Westbrook is a pretty reasonable deal for both sides. Just reset the Bulls buy Westbrook out for less than you’d have paid Zack and Lavine is the kinda guy who works as third option. Only issue is it seems people haven’t noticed the Lakers are 40 and then $50 million under the cap this off-season and next so they have tremendous flexibility with Westbrook expiring. They have space to sign Kyrie and try for another ring. Or overpay Seth Curry and 2-3 other elite role players to have a real team not just two players and scraps. Maybe offer Middleton the max. Who knows? Lots of better options than Lavine.

I didn't know the Lakers would have that much space. It changed things because LA is a destination where they can and normally should hang on to the cap space so they can sign an elite player probably within the next 2 or 3 years. Still they have to take risks because James has so few elite seasons left. If they wait until he's 40 will he still be All NBA caliber?

[RRR3]

I promise you whoever the worst player in the NBA is in any given season that person has never had 15 assists in a game while being it.
Players as bad as Westbrook currently is usually don’t get minutes. He’s not inherently the worst but giving him that many minutes means he does the most damage.

[RRR3]

If you were paying attention you would know that James and Davis have both been missing games and that's especially bad for LA when Davis is out. In Washington Westbrook averaged a 20 point triple double. His numbers were on par with allstar.

Comparing the current Lakers to their last champ team is silly. Many of the players are different James and Davis can't stay healthy. You act like they're the exact same because you don't analyze the game you just warp reality around your agenda. Troll thinking isn't really thinking. You may as well be a bot.
You realize their record when James and Davis are healthy isn’t good either right? If he can’t even play .500 ball with two guys who dominated an entire season and playoff run who can he win with? Your position is that the Lakers are significantly worse replacing KCP, Kuzma and Caruso with Westbrook and yet he’s somehow an all-star level player. That doesn’t make any sense. Can you find me a single shoot first guard who relied almost entirely on their athleticism who was good at 34? Because that’s what Westbrook is. I’m not sure why you’re acting like it’s shocking a 34 year old who can’t shoot and relied mainly on his athleticism is bad. Averaging a triple double on horrible efficiency when you leave your man open so you can get rebounds isn’t that impressive. His impact stats were poor in Washington as well (-2.0 RAPTOR). The last time his RAPTOR stats were star level was 2018 when he was 29 and far more athletic. You can argue till you’re blue in the face that I’m pushing an agenda but you’ve given opinions while I’m giving facts. I’m legitimately not sure LeBron is even top 20 in the league right now so saying I am lying about Westbrook to make him look good is a reach.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You realize their record when James and Davis are healthy isn’t good either right? If he can’t even play .500 ball with two guys who dominated an entire season and playoff run who can he win with? Your position is that the Lakers are significantly worse replacing KCP, Kuzma and Caruso with Westbrook and yet he’s somehow an all-star level player. That doesn’t make any sense. Can you find me a single shoot first guard who relied almost entirely on their athleticism who was good at 34? Because that’s what Westbrook is. I’m not sure why you’re acting like it’s shocking a 34 year old who can’t shoot and relied mainly on his athleticism is bad. Averaging a triple double on horrible efficiency when you leave your man open so you can get rebounds isn’t that impressive. His impact stats were poor in Washington as well (-2.0 RAPTOR). The last time his RAPTOR stats were star level was 2018 when he was 29 and far more athletic. You can argue till you’re blue in the face that I’m pushing an agenda but you’ve given opinions while I’m giving facts. I’m legitimately not sure LeBron is even top 20 in the league right now so saying I am lying about Westbrook to make him look good is a reach.

Again you completely ignore what he is being asked to do in LA and how it's completely unsuitable for his skill set. He is not and never had been good off the ball. They need a good shooter at point guard. He isn't so it's a struggle. They are a bad shooting team in the worst era to be a bad shooting team. Kuzma is a solid roleplayer and he can shoot. He fits better and Westbrook ability to get a triple double doesn't matter because LA already had rounders and you can't get 20 assists when the ball is not in your hands for most of the game.

And it's funny that you now say James isn't top 20. Ok then if you really think that then why are you acting like the team not being as good as the championship squad is about Westbrook. I would say going from top 3 player to outside the top 20 is a huge drop off, no?

[PeroAntic]

I’ve been a Bulls fan since Jerry Sloan was the coach(not that I have much memory of that) and I’ve never cared less about the team than I have the last few years. I’m not sure he’s the reason why but I don’t think he’s even going to register long-term as a bulls player in my memory. Can’t put my finger on why. That guy is really ****ing skilled, and more of a throwback skills wise than he seems but something is just off.

Give me Ben Gordon over Lavine as an all time Bull.

When even kblaze echoes the same old "there is something about him, I dont know what exactly, but I hate him" sentiment about Lavine, then you know whats up.

I mean hes not even that bad of a defender as people say. Booker is a shit defender and no one bats an eye. I guess some people are just unlikeable and Lavine is one of them. Strange but true

[RRR3]

Again you completely ignore what he is being asked to do in LA and how it's completely unsuitable for his skill set. He is not and never had been good off the ball. They need a good shooter at point guard. He isn't so it's a struggle. They are a bad shooting team in the worst era to be a bad shooting team. Kuzma is a solid roleplayer and he can shoot. He fits better and Westbrook ability to get a triple double doesn't matter because LA already had rounders and you can't get 20 assists when the ball is not in your hands for most of the game.

And it's funny that you now say James isn't top 20. Ok then if you really think that then why are you acting like the team not being as good as the championship squad is about Westbrook. I would say going from top 3 player to outside the top 20 is a huge drop off, no?
LeBron declining is part of the reason they’re not as good but not the main reason. This is still a very good team when healthy if you replace Westbrook with someone like Monte Morris, even if they wouldn’t be the favorites like they were in the past. Westbrook plays off ball more because when he played on ball last year he was still terrible and LeBron got sick of it. I watched a lot of their games at the beginning LeBron played off ball to accommodate him and he still stank. If he’s gonna stink regardless there is little reason to take the ball out of LeBron’s hands. Westbrook still gets a ton of assists on the Lakers btw it’s not like he’s being used like Klay. The correct move is obviously to bench him if you can’t trade him but Ham is apparently convinced he can make it work. Yes this team is infinitely better with Kuzma because he doesn’t absolutely destroy spacing, can at least guard wings to some degree, has size and doesn’t dominate the ball while being an awful scorer. I’m not sure how someone is all star level if Kyle Kuzma is a significantly better player than them. Unless you’re really high on Kuzma but I’ve never seen anyone who is that high on him besides ImKobe

[RRR3]

When even kblaze echoes the same old "there is something about him, I dont know what exactly, but I hate him" sentiment about Lavine, then you know whats up.

I mean hes not even that bad of a defender as people say. Booker is a shit defender and no one bats an eye. I guess some people are just unlikeable and Lavine is one of them. Strange but true
LaVine is significantly less impactful than Booker. Outside of his career year in 2021 the best RAPTOR he has put up in a full year is a +0.1 (he was at a +2.3 in 2021). Booker’s best is a +4.1 and he’s been at least +1.9 every year starting in 2020. This year Booker is a +4.6 and LaVine is a +0.2

[BigShotBob]

Lakers shouldn't want Lavine he does nothing for your team outside of trying to score and dunk from time to time. Low impact defender (actually he's pretty terrible) and not a good playmaker and passer for a guard meaning once the ball isn't in his hands he will flat out disappear on you. He doesn't even cut as much as he should.

[PeroAntic]

Lakers shouldn't want Lavine he does nothing for your team outside of trying to score and dunk from time to time. Low impact defender (actually he's pretty terrible) and not a good playmaker and passer for a guard meaning once the ball isn't in his hands he will flat out disappear on you. He doesn't even cut as much as he should.

Wrong on pretty much everything there:facepalm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wkY_UOFPvs&ab_channel=ZHHighlights

Great passing, cuts, dribble penetration and clutch as well. His ability is undeniable - except to haters (which are most people when it comes to him for whatever reason). He is clearly trying to force his way out to the Lakers and make Chicago accept a worse trade.