2023 NBA MVP Discussion thread

[1987_Lakers]

Still early, but I think it's a 5 man race between Giannis, Tatum, Jokic, & Luka, & maybe KD, don't see anyone else winning MVP.

In the last week or so Tatum has lost some steam while Jokic has climbed into the discussion.

Discuss.

[Full Court]

Still early, but I think it's a 4 man race between Giannis, Tatum, Jokic, & Luka, don't see anyone else winning MVP.

In the last week or so Tatum has lost some steam, while Jokic has climbed into the discussion.

Discuss.

Luka's not giving his team enough wins. I don't see him in the running.

Giannis, Tatum, and Jokic are certainly in the discussusion, along with KD, Morant, and dare I say it...Donovan Mitchell.

Right now I give Jokic the edge over everyone else. His impact is off the charts.

[iamgine]

I have Jokic by a clear margin. Then Luka 2nd.

[Full Court]

I have Jokic by a clear margin. Then Luka 2nd.

Mavs are on the verge of being knocked out of the play-in bracket. Unless they start piling up some wins, Luka's not even going to sniff MVP.

[1987_Lakers]

KD is a good add, don't see Morant or Mitchell winning it.

[Full Court]

KD is a good add, don't see Morant or Mitchell winning it.

Agree it's unlikely, but I'm not going to rule them out yet. Still a lot of season left.

[AlternativeAcc.]

KD is averaging 30/7/5 2 blks on 67%TS and has been the best isolation defender in the league, chasing down the 1 seed with a garbage cast

[iamgine]

Mavs are on the verge of being knocked out of the play-in bracket. Unless they start piling up some wins, Luka's not even going to sniff MVP.

Maybe not by voters. I never see why team record is relevant in determining MVP.

[Full Court]

Maybe not by voters. I never see why team record is relevant in determining MVP.

I can see a case both ways, but I tend to agree with heavily weighting team record. If your team is consistently losing regardless of how well you're playing, how valuable are you really? Just valuable in the sense that they would have lost worse?

[Yeezy]

my votes for jokic... just to further prove how lame this era and league is and prove how retarded voter formula has become



jokic is the PER leader and is basically right there with the 1st seed. don't see how he shouldn't win it 3 straight years. uncontested floaters vs 6'5 centers baby

[fourkicks44]

Still early but I am pretty confident it will come down to Luka and Tatum and that is all.

It should be Joker by all former criteria. The voters are full of shit if he doesn't get it and the nuggets get the 1 seed.

[1987_Lakers]

Still early but I am pretty confident it will come down to Luka and Tatum and that is all.

It should be Joker by all former criteria. The voters are full of shit if he doesn't get it and the nuggets get the 1 seed.

Only Bird, Russell & Wilt have ever won 3 in a row. Joker would join elite company if he pulls this off.

[iamgine]

I can see a case both ways, but I tend to agree with heavily weighting team record. If your team is consistently losing regardless of how well you're playing, how valuable are you really? Just valuable in the sense that they would have lost worse?

Well from my perspective value is value. Winning or losing doesn't diminish that.

[NBAGOAT]

doubt he wins but watch out for embiid. Philly is looking a high seed now and he leads the league in scoring

[Baller789]

They dont want a non American white boy winning 3 in a row.

[Manny98]

It's between KD & Jokic, nobody else

Tatum? :roll:

[fourkicks44]

Only Bird, Russell & Wilt have ever won 3 in a row. Joker would join elite company if he pulls this off.

The voters will look like complete idiots if Jokic has better advanced stats and the 1 seed and the don't give it too him .

Just give him the award if he deserved two he sure as hell deserves three for the same reasons. He is clearly deserving as much as those players you named.

[Phoenix]

Honestly I'd vote for Durant if the vote was today. He single-handedly kept the Nets afloat amidst the Kyrie drama when the season was in danger of being lost, and he's scoring as well as he ever has at 34( I think at this point he has the highest PPG/TS% in history, read it somewhere the other day).

[tontoz]

I think health will thin the field by the end of the season. No MVP has missed more than a dozen games in the last 20 years i believe.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jokic will have to maintain this level of play throughout the season AND lead the Nuggets to the number 1 seed in order to win MVP against the pushback of voter fatigue. Not even Jordan or LeBron won 3 MVP's in a row, so he'll have to have an unquestioned claim in order to win it again imo.

The rest of the contenders are all out East, with Giannis, Tatum, KD, Mitchell & Embiid all in the mix for the time being.

[ArbitraryWater]

I can see a case both ways, but I tend to agree with heavily weighting team record. If your team is consistently losing regardless of how well you're playing, how valuable are you really? Just valuable in the sense that they would have lost worse?

No, ost more.

Even if you have a .500 record, you coud have added more wins to your team than someone ese to a 60 win team.

Its reay simpe.

[bullettooth]

Should be Jokic. I don't give a **** if voters are getting tired of him winning it year after year... best player in the league should get it regardless, and it's clearly Jokic.

[Xiao Yao You]

It's between KD & Jokic, nobody else

Tatum? :roll:

I thought it was Mitchell's to lose? Try to be consistent troll

[Wally450]

Tatum
KD
Jokic
Giannis
Luka

[Manny98]

I thought it was Mitchell's to lose? Try to be consistent troll
Never said that, I have Mitchell 3rd in MVP

[Smook A.]

It's amazing to me how Jokic has quickly brought himself into the conversation again

If he manages to average a triple-double, and helps the Nuggets finish in the top 2 (both very real possibilities), I think he might legitimately win his 3rd MVP in a row

[John8204]

Three MVP's without a finals appearance is a bit hard for me to believe, I think Giannis, Luka, Tatum, and Devin Booker should be in the mix

[Mask the Embiid]

Still early, but I think it's a 5 man race between Giannis, Tatum, Jokic, & Luka, & maybe KD, don't see anyone else winning MVP.

In the last week or so Tatum has lost some steam while Jokic has climbed into the discussion.

Discuss.

cringe

[RRR3]

It’s big Papa Jokic again at the moment.

[StrongLurk]

Jokic and Giannis should be the top two, but they have already won multiple MVPs before.

Honestly the media would love to give it to Tatum if he keeps up his play and the Celtics keep winning.

[ArbitraryWater]

Jokic sti insane, but I need to see Embiid get the MVP this time with his 33/10/5 on 53% shooting.

[Street Hunger]

Some current 2022-23 NBA MVP top favorite candidates in un-ranked order: Giannis, Tatum, Jokic, Morant, Embiid.

And then lesser favorites, maybe Donovan Mitchell, Kevin Durant, Zion.

[1987_Lakers]

Jokic with a 41/15/15 game.

[Manny98]

Jokic and KD going neck to neck :applause:

Mitchell and Luka are also in the mix

[1987_Lakers]

Luka's not giving his team enough wins. I don't see him in the running.

:biggums:

60/21/10 game for Luka

[Axe]

Kd has been gaining some ground since this month started i believe.

[BigShotBob]

Should be Jokic. I don't give a **** if voters are getting tired of him winning it year after year... best player in the league should get it regardless, and it's clearly Jokic.

Jokic is not the best player in the league

[hold this L]

1. Jokic

2. Giannis
3. KD

4. Luka
5. Tatum

This would be my current list.

[Axe]

Jokic is not the best player in the league
Meltdown.

[NBAGOAT]

luka should be up there. impact stuff has him 2nd behind jokic. Relative to era, this roster is worse than most bron cavs teams yet luka has them looking like a solid playoff team. They really have 4 decent players behind luka this year, dinwiddie wood finney smith hardaway. I'm not even exaggerating when I say there are playoff teams but not contenders where none of those guys start.

[Naero]

If Jokic sustains this level of play, will the media still hold voter fatigue against him? If so, it'll be interesting seeing them try to shadowbox their way through that unwritten rule in the MVP discussions, because there's literally no other counterargument (logical or narrative-driven) at the moment.

Giannis cratered his chances with his current 4-game losing streak, culminating in an unmitigated crunch-time meltdown tonight. It doesn't help Tatum that his team's been similarly spotty lately.

I'd love to see Luka win it—and he's indeed arguably been the most impactful player in a vacuum—but I don't see him getting MVP-acceptable seeding in this year's West with his current supporting cast.

I think KD and Jokic will be the two frontrunners down the stretch, especially if Brooklyn keep surging like this and the former candidate minimizes his load management. The Nets superstar is still as dominant as ever on both ends, and voter fatigue might actually tip the scales in his favor if it's a close-run race.

[BigShotBob]

If Jokic sustains this level of play, will the media still hold voter fatigue against him? If so, it'll be interesting seeing them try to shadowbox their way through that unwritten rule in the MVP discussions, because there's literally no other counterargument (logical or narrative-driven) at the moment.

Giannis cratered his chances with his current 4-game losing streak, culminating in an unmitigated crunch-time meltdown tonight. It doesn't help Tatum that his team's been similarly spotty lately.

I'd love to see Luka win it—and he's indeed arguably been the most impactful player in a vacuum—but I don't see him getting MVP-acceptable seeding in this year's West with his current supporting cast.

I think KD and Jokic will be the two frontrunners down the stretch, especially if Brooklyn keep surging like this and the former candidate minimizes his load management. The Nets superstar is still as dominant as ever on both ends, and voter fatigue might actually tip the scales in his favor if it's a close-run race.

Nuggets are bound to be on a slump while Nets continue to rise because the Nuggets have never addressed their issues on defense and Jokic doesn't move the needle in that regard unfortunately

[NBAGOAT]

Nuggets are bound to be on a slump while Nets continue to rise because the Nuggets have never addressed their issues on defense and Jokic doesn't move the needle in that regard unfortunately

nuggets sign a bench piece who can defend and you'll be surprised how much their defense improves. Their starters are fine on defense but it's no surprise bones and deandre gets destroyed every time they come in

[tontoz]

Nuggets are bound to be on a slump while Nets continue to rise because the Nuggets have never addressed their issues on defense and Jokic doesn't move the needle in that regard unfortunately



If you knew anything about the nuggets you would know their problem is that they suck when Jokic is on the bench.

His on off numbers last season were absurd, +16 per 48.

http://www.82games.com/2122/21DEN21.HTM#onoff

[Chuckbe]

Jokic sti insane, but I need to see Embiid get the MVP this time with his 33/10/5 on 53% shooting.

The guy in your avatar is way more deserving

[BigShotBob]

If you knew anything about the nuggets you would know their problem is that they suck when Jokic is on the bench.

His on off numbers last season were absurd, +16 per 48.

http://www.82games.com/2122/21DEN21.HTM#onoff

He's good offensively but he will never be the anchor for a top flight defense. I think he'll be better as a 4 like Dirk alongside a defensive anchor

[hold this L]

luka should be up there. impact stuff has him 2nd behind jokic. Relative to era, this roster is worse than most bron cavs teams yet luka has them looking like a solid playoff team. They really have 4 decent players behind luka this year, dinwiddie wood finney smith hardaway. I'm not even exaggerating when I say there are playoff teams but not contenders where none of those guys start.
https://media.tenor.com/C0sx-hjOTWYAAAAd/lebron-james-laughing.gif

Not even remotely close to being true. If your team is breaking even when your star player doesn't play, that's not all that bad.



Net RTG when Luka is on this year: 5.38
Net RTG when Luka is off this year: 0.56

2009
Net RTG when Lebron is on: 14.65
Net RTG when Lebron is off: -7.19

[hold this L]

If Jokic sustains this level of play, will the media still hold voter fatigue against him? If so, it'll be interesting seeing them try to shadowbox their way through that unwritten rule in the MVP discussions, because there's literally no other counterargument (logical or narrative-driven) at the moment.

Giannis cratered his chances with his current 4-game losing streak, culminating in an unmitigated crunch-time meltdown tonight. It doesn't help Tatum that his team's been similarly spotty lately.

I'd love to see Luka win it—and he's indeed arguably been the most impactful player in a vacuum—but I don't see him getting MVP-acceptable seeding in this year's West with his current supporting cast.

I think KD and Jokic will be the two frontrunners down the stretch, especially if Brooklyn keep surging like this and the former candidate minimizes his load management. The Nets superstar is still as dominant as ever on both ends, and voter fatigue might actually tip the scales in his favor if it's a close-run race.

No he hasn't, but he has amazing numbers because he's incredible and the way he plays (biggest ballhog in NBA history). Jokic right now is clearly having the most impact for this season, and Luka isn't even on the same stratosphere.

[tontoz]

He's good offensively but he will never be the anchor for a top flight defense. I think he'll be better as a 4 like Dirk alongside a defensive anchor


Nobody is claiming he is Deke but the defense is better when Jokic is on the floor. He is a net positive on D whether you like it or not.

Saying he should play the 4 at his size is laughable.

[ArbitraryWater]

The guy in your avatar is way more deserving


sure is now.


Aso have to incude Bron into the conversation now.

[1987_Lakers]

Jokic might really pull off a 3 peat.

[kawhileonard2]

sure is now.


Aso have to incude Bron into the conversation now.

Not even close. Might as well include Demar Derozan.

[NBAGOAT]

https://media.tenor.com/C0sx-hjOTWYAAAAd/lebron-james-laughing.gif

Not even remotely close to being true. If your team is breaking even when your star player doesn't play, that's not all that bad.



Net RTG when Luka is on this year: 5.38
Net RTG when Luka is off this year: 0.56

2009
Net RTG when Lebron is on: 14.65
Net RTG when Lebron is off: -7.19

on/off is affected by lineups too much. Mavs stagger dinwiddie and wood a lot when luka sits. Cavs in 09 didnt. By epm luka doesnt have a teammate above +1, by raptor only powell and hardaway are positives. eye test wise, not one mav is above average at his position among starters. 3ball gives mo williams too much credit but he was better than any mav this year. Also ofc 09 lebron is better than luka but he's competing with mainly jokic this year. Jokic does dominate by raw +/- but not as much in impact metrics. He has a worse bench than luka but significantly better top end help.

[kawhileonard2]

Jokic might really pull off a 3 peat.

Only if #1 seed.

[Full Court]

https://media.tenor.com/C0sx-hjOTWYAAAAd/lebron-james-laughing.gif

Not even remotely close to being true. If your team is breaking even when your star player doesn't play, that's not all that bad.



Net RTG when Luka is on this year: 5.38
Net RTG when Luka is off this year: 0.56

2009
Net RTG when Lebron is on: 14.65
Net RTG when Lebron is off: -7.19

Lebron has better help on the floor when he gets his minutes than Luka does.

[John8204]

If Jokic sustains this level of play, will the media still hold voter fatigue against him? If so, it'll be interesting seeing them try to shadowbox their way through that unwritten rule in the MVP discussions, because there's literally no other counterargument (logical or narrative-driven) at the moment.

Giannis cratered his chances with his current 4-game losing streak, culminating in an unmitigated crunch-time meltdown tonight. It doesn't help Tatum that his team's been similarly spotty lately.

I'd love to see Luka win it—and he's indeed arguably been the most impactful player in a vacuum—but I don't see him getting MVP-acceptable seeding in this year's West with his current supporting cast.

I think KD and Jokic will be the two frontrunners down the stretch, especially if Brooklyn keep surging like this and the former candidate minimizes his load management. The Nets superstar is still as dominant as ever on both ends, and voter fatigue might actually tip the scales in his favor if it's a close-run race.

I would love to see the voter who votes against Giannis because he lost four games in January. The media isn't giving the guy a third MVP when he's not going to finish top two in All-Star voting. If Giannis is #1 in the East...he's winning...if Luka wins the scoring title and is 1-4 in the west he's winning, if Boston is #1 in the East Tatum's winning, if GSW turn it around and Curry goes on a run he's winning.

[hold this L]

on/off is affected by lineups too much. Mavs stagger dinwiddie and wood a lot when luka sits. Cavs in 09 didnt. By epm luka doesnt have a teammate above +1, by raptor only powell and hardaway are positives. eye test wise, not one mav is above average at his position among starters. 3ball gives mo williams too much credit but he was better than any mav this year. Also ofc 09 lebron is better than luka but he's competing with mainly jokic this year. Jokic does dominate by raw +/- but not as much in impact metrics. He has a worse bench than luka but significantly better top end help.

If your argument is Mo Williams is a lot better than people give credit to, you go ahead. But outside of Lebron haters, nobody is buying that spiel. Lebron was FAR more effective on the court and more impactful than Luka.

And of course other players don't have good stats, it's hard to look good with Luka considering the white fatass Harden is 23 and already crowned as the biggest ballhog in NBA history.

[Naero]

KD's injury will obviously set him back. Shame since he was just breaking through as one of the frontrunners. Depending on how the Nets fare without him, the MVP race could be practically uncatchable by the time he returns.

Jokic might actually three-peat the award at this rate. It's easier for him to overcome voter fatigue now that he's finally leading a top-seeded team. Not to mention, you can't really hold the playoffs against him despite the early exits and (gentleman's) sweeps since he hasn't truly faltered there individually.

Tatum looks like the only realistic threat, though he might have to share too much credit with Brown—an elite costar that Jokic lacks.


I would love to see the voter who votes against Giannis because he lost four games in January. The media isn't giving the guy a third MVP when he's not going to finish top two in All-Star voting. If Giannis is #1 in the East...he's winning...if Luka wins the scoring title and is 1-4 in the west he's winning, if Boston is #1 in the East Tatum's winning, if GSW turn it around and Curry goes on a run he's winning.

I didn't say it precludes him from winning it; I just said it hinders his chances, which it does for the here and now. Obviously he can overcome it—and being one of the biggest Bucks and Giannis fans on this board, I hope he will—but those four games can be a decisive factor; after all, it's often only taken a game or two to tip the scales in the end.

If he leads the Bucks to the first seed, I agree he'll deserve serious consideration. But that's a big if, and it becomes exponentially bigger with losing streaks like that.


No he hasn't, but he has amazing numbers because he's incredible and the way he plays (biggest ballhog in NBA history). Jokic right now is clearly having the most impact for this season, and Luka isn't even on the same stratosphere.

He ranks top three in virtually every impact-oriented metric, and the team is 0-4 without him so far (mostly against lottery-bound opponents, to boot). Is his ball-dominant playstyle inflating his stats? Sure, but you'll be hard-pressed to argue they're impactless.

By "arguably," I simply meant you can make a reasonable (but not dispositive) case for him. I wouldn't make one personally—Jokic's impact outmeasures his, IMO—but I wouldn't necessarily scoff at anyone arguing Luka.

[NBAGOAT]

If your argument is Mo Williams is a lot better than people give credit to, you go ahead. But outside of Lebron haters, nobody is buying that spiel. Lebron was FAR more effective on the court and more impactful than Luka.

And of course other players don't have good stats, it's hard to look good with Luka considering the white fatass Harden is 23 and already crowned as the biggest ballhog in NBA history.

i agree about lebron being better than luka. I dont think mo is better than people give credit for(he did get the all star nod) but he's a clearly above average starting pg in 09 no mav is an above average starter besides luka. Dinwiddie was putting up worse stats on worse teams like hardaway and wood before playing with luka.

Just a quick rundown of point guard since dinwiddie is likely the mavs 2nd best player.

Murray, Morant, CJ, fox, Paul, Curry, russell, dame, smart, kyrie, jrue, harden, garland, haliburton, brunson, lowry, trae, vanvleet, lamelo are all guys better or potentially better.

[1987_Lakers]

I've seen enough, Jokic is the GOAT offensive center

36/12/10 on 13-14 shooting tonight.

[Im Still Ballin]

I've seen enough, Jokic is the GOAT offensive center

36/12/10 on 13-14 shooting tonight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGFvZNyCjI

:applause: :bowdown:

[Chuckbe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4LJWtGUtvM

[Street Hunger]

Who are the top contenders now

[1987_Lakers]

Who are the top contenders now

1. Jokic
2. Embiid

I excluded Embiid from the OP, but he deserves some consideration now.