Draymond **** you you ****ed up this team again just like 16' Finals

[3ba11]

This bum tricked off 2 seasons and 2 repeat opportunities (16' & 22')

It amazes me how DUMB and RESULT-ORIENTED the typical basketball fan and media is

Draymond is a 8/7/5 bum - he would be nothing more than a sturdy role player on anything but a GOAT dynasty - only the unprecedented winning spotlight inflates him to this all-time player (aka media and fan dumbness)

He deserves this kind of criticism for tricking off 2 seasons with his low class, gutter-ball character .. He's ruined Curry's chance at 5 chips - things looked rosy until Draymond struck with his gutter-ball tactics - now it's downhill just like the 16' Finals.. Warriors can't win after Draymond's gutter-ball strikes.. He's the 2nd most overrated player in history

[Wally450]

Are you okay?

[SouBeachTalents]

Strange autistic meltdown by OP.

[3ballwarriorfan]

Friendly reminder, 3ba11 is warriorfan.

[Phoenix]

You sound agitated.

[ShawkFactory]

If he's such a bum...shouldn't they be able to win without him?

[3ba11]

If he's such a bum...shouldn't they be able to win without him?


Not when he kills team chemistry with gutter-ball stuff

It's funny because that's what he's there for - chemistry - he's a placeholder within the system that doesn't have to score - he just has to not upset the applecart... Narcissistic bum can't even do that

[ShawkFactory]

Not when he kills team chemistry with gutter-ball stuff

It's funny because that's what he's there for - chemistry - he's a placeholder within the system that doesn't have to score - he just has to not upset the applecart... Narcissistic bum can't even do that

He's meant a hell of a lot more to the franchise than that. You know this though.

[PeroAntic]

op doesn't understand basketball as much as he thinks he does

[Yeezy]

OP needs to relax. draymonds style doesn't work in the regular season anymore. the lack of defense and physicality has made giant sloths like jokic and embiid unstoppable. lukas also slothing it up. the regular season is made for guys like lebron to look good cause they can move wherever they want at 2 miles an hour


when the playoffs come around and if the warriors can get in they'll be fine and all those guys will get bodied up again. draymond and the rest of the warriors can go back to their push offs and moving screens and bully ball like how they beat on dallas in last years WCF and boston in the finals

this just isn't their time right now

[3ba11]

op doesn't understand basketball as much as he thinks he does


I know that if Draymond played for the Wizards, he would be considered a solid role player - saying he's all-time caliber would be considered completely absurd and ridiculous... So he's only considered "good" on a dynasty created by generational offensive talents like Curry.. He's nothing without the dynasty winning spotlight and ring count that Curry gave him

[SouBeachTalents]

I know that if Draymond played for the Wizards, he would be considered a solid role player - saying he's all-time caliber would be considered completely absurd and ridiculous... So he's only considered "good" on a dynasty created by generational offensive talents like Curry.. He's nothing without the dynasty winning spotlight and ring count that Curry gave him
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477034-in-70-s-Curry-long-2-lt-close-post-2-so-curry-klay-role-player-in-70-s

[PeroAntic]

I know that if Draymond played for the Wizards, he would be considered a solid role player - saying he's all-time caliber would be considered completely absurd and ridiculous... So he's only considered "good" on a dynasty created by generational offensive talents like Curry.. He's nothing without the dynasty winning spotlight and ring count that Curry gave him

No you dont, its a dumb counterfactual, and even if that was true it still wouldn't matter, hes an ATG defender, a great passer and crucial for the way the Warriors play. His boxscore stats are irrelevant, you can say for every player that he would be better or worse elsewhere, what matters is reality and in reality hes been instrumental for the Warriors dynasty.

You need to understand the sum is more than its parts. Put Steph or Klay on another team and they would also likely not win. You need the pieces to fall into place, that includes coach, role players and culture. but what does any of that mean to someone who sees basketball as a game of stars, and nothing else. Its not all about big threes and Batmans and robins.

[red1]

OP hates draymond now that dray is pushing the agenda™ in the media


https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif

[GrayGoat]

Op is warriorfan

[3ba11]

No you dont, its a dumb counterfactual, and even if that was true it still wouldn't matter, hes an ATG defender, a great passer and crucial for the way the Warriors play. His boxscore stats are irrelevant, you can say for every player that he would be better or worse elsewhere, what matters is reality and in reality hes been instrumental for the Warriors dynasty.





For a team to win with non-scorers like Draymond, Rodman, Pippen or abnormally-low scoring help, they need a goat scorer with ground-breaking skill that a unique system can be built around.

And we saw this a couple years ago when Draymond was a nobody without the Curry's system and winning team... And we saw Pippen average 14 on 40% outside the triangle (alongside Hakeem) just a few months after averaging 20 alongside Jordan - Pippen admitted that he couldn't provide the spacing help that a center-led offense requires (basically admitting that he couldn't win with 90's centers, aka couldn't win without Jordan - Pip actually compared himself to a bad Westbrook fit - see clip here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s)).

So Pippen admitted and the actual events confirmed that he was nothing outside the dynasty system that he grew up in - Draymond is the same way... Only generational offensive talents can win with system players like this that force the #1 option to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title runs).. Indeed, Curry and MJ are the goat 3-point and 2-point shooters, respectively, aka they're the generational offensive talents that system players need to win and be elevated to media accolade (Pippen & Draymond).

[3ba11]

He's meant a hell of a lot more to the franchise than that.


Only because he grew up in the system - the team literally seems weird without him

But that's it

Any decent and focused player that was lucky enough to land alongside the goat shooter was going to learn the system and become part OF the system.

Tons of guys could've had better impact in Draymond's role or a different role - for example, guys like Anthony Mason or Detlef Schrempf were better at basketball and would've been integral parts of the system, but they weren't lucky enough to land alongside a generational offensive talent like Curry.. Heck, they literally wouldn't have to score alongside Curry, just like Draymond, but I'm sure Schrempf's futuristic point-forward shooting would be insane regardless.

Ultimately, for a team to win with non-scorers like Draymond, Rodman, Pippen or abnormally-low scoring help, they need a goat scorer with ground-breaking skill that a unique system can be built around.

[SouBeachTalents]

Only because he grew up in the system - the team literally seems weird without him

But that's it

Any decent and focused player that was lucky enough to land alongside the goat shooter was going to learn the system and become part OF the system.

Tons of guys could've had better impact in Draymond's role or a different role - for example, guys like Anthony Mason or Detlef Schrempf were better at basketball and would've been integral parts of the system, but they weren't lucky enough to land alongside a generational offensive talent like Curry.. Heck, they literally wouldn't have to score alongside Curry, just like Draymond, but I'm sure Schrempf's futuristic point-forward shooting would be insane regardless.

Ultimately, for a team to win with non-scorers like Draymond, Rodman, Pippen or abnormally-low scoring help, they need a goat scorer with ground-breaking skill that a unique system can be built around.
The Warriors definitely wouldn't be as good with Schrempf in Dray's place, if we're talking 2015-19 at least. The shooting and scoring advantage he'd bring wouldn't come close to compensating for the defense they'd lose without Dray. Mason also wouldn't fit that role as well either. Defense matters, a simple concept you seem literally incapable of comprehending.

Also, for the thousandth time, that "abnormally-low scoring" Pippen outscored the opponents 2nd option in the VAST majority of the Bulls series during their title years :oldlol:

[3ba11]

The Warriors definitely wouldn't be as good with Schrempf in Dray's place, if we're talking 2015-19 at least. The shooting and scoring advantage he'd bring wouldn't come close to compensating for the defense they'd lose without Dray. Mason also wouldn't fit that role as well either. Defense matters, a simple concept you seem literally incapable of comprehending.





The only system where an 8/7/5 player is considered meaningful or ATG is Curry's

And Anthony Mason was all-defense and All-NBA in 97' (16/11/6), while Schrempf was also a good defender, passer and All-NBA too (often guarded Jordan from the PF or SF spot.

Either of these guys could fill the Draymond role - they don't have to do it the exact same way but both guys have versatile, flexible games (ideal for that spot in Curry 's system) - the point is that any number of unselfish, defenders could've played that role and would love to play that role on a champion - but only Curry's system allows it






Also, for the thousandth time, that "abnormally-low scoring" Pippen outscored the opponents 2nd option in the VAST majority of the Bulls series during their title years :oldlol:





Pippen was a system player whose low peak capability meant that he never had a significant margin against anyone and never dominated matchups, while having the worst passing, efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg), spacing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s), clutch (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=259s), here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-04-2022/B-6qB7.gif), here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/cKS3B2.gif), here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2021/LCBZJA.gif), here (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS)), and lowest peak capability (not on scouting report (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif)) among notable 90"s sidekicks... Pippen's low peak capability meant that MJ faced maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load) for every season and series of his career (unique to Jordan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s)).. As the links show, this is all historical record..






Also, for the thousandth time, that "abnormally-low scoring" Pippen outscored the opponents 2nd option in the VAST majority of the Bulls series during their title years :oldlol:





Notice how Pippen says that he couldn't win alongside a great center in the "spacing" link (he says he couldn't provide the spacing that a center-oriented offense requires) - so shooters like Starks or Sean Elliot would be 2nd options alongside centers like Ewing or Duncan.. Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer and otherwise guys like Kukoc were preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games.. In the 98' Playoffs, Kukoc was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring (kukoc (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/389/traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4), pippen (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/937/traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)) and clutch time scoring (last 5 within 5 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS)).. Outside of the triangle and dynasty system that he grew up in, Pippen was worse than Jeff Green (14 on 40% alongside Hakeem) - he was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer.

Accordingly, the proper way to perceive MJ and Pippen is that MJ was simply good enough to win with Pippen's decade-worst passing and efficiency among 90's sidekicks - the resulting winning spotlight is why Pippen started making All-NBA in 1992 (5th season).. Compare this trajectory to 4th-year Jamal Murray from the 2020 Playoffs - Jokic wasn't good enough to win with Murray's 27/5/7 on 63% true shooting (better than Pippen ever played), so Murray wasn't elevated to media accolade thereafter like Pippen.. This is just a simple example but it applies to anyone that fails to win with Iggy-caliber help from the sidekick.

[Axe]

You sound upset, op.

[warriorfan]

This bum tricked off 2 seasons and 2 repeat opportunities (16' & 22')

It amazes me how DUMB and RESULT-ORIENTED the typical basketball fan and media is

Draymond is a 8/7/5 bum - he would be nothing more than a sturdy role player on anything but a GOAT dynasty - only the unprecedented winning spotlight inflates him to this all-time player (aka media and fan dumbness)

He deserves this kind of criticism for tricking off 2 seasons with his low class, gutter-ball character .. He's ruined Curry's chance at 5 chips - things looked rosy until Draymond struck with his gutter-ball tactics - now it's downhill just like the 16' Finals.. Warriors can't win after Draymond's gutter-ball strikes.. He's the 2nd most overrated player in history

as a warrior fan this is an uncomfortable truth, but it is the truth

[warriorfan]

The only system where an 8/7/5 player is considered meaningful or ATG is Curry's

And Anthony Mason was all-defense and All-NBA in 97' (16/11/6), while Schrempf was also a good defender, passer and All-NBA too (often guarded Jordan from the PF or SF spot.

Either of these guys could fill the Draymond role - they don't have to do it the exact same way but both guys have versatile, flexible games (ideal for that spot in Curry 's system) - the point is that any number of unselfish, defenders could've played that role and would love to play that role on a champion - but only Curry's system allows it






Pippen was a system player whose low peak capability meant that he never had a significant margin against anyone and never dominated matchups, while having the worst passing, efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg), spacing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s), clutch (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=259s), here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-04-2022/B-6qB7.gif), here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/cKS3B2.gif), here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2021/LCBZJA.gif), here (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS)), and lowest peak capability (not on scouting report (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif)) among notable 90"s sidekicks... Pippen's low peak capability meant that MJ faced maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load) for every season and series of his career (unique to Jordan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s)).. As the links show, this is all historical record..






Notice how Pippen says that he couldn't win alongside a great center in the "spacing" link (he says he couldn't provide the spacing that a center-oriented offense requires) - so shooters like Starks or Sean Elliot would be 2nd options alongside centers like Ewing or Duncan.. Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer and otherwise guys like Kukoc were preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games.. In the 98' Playoffs, Kukoc was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring (kukoc (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/389/traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4), pippen (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/937/traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)) and clutch time scoring (last 5 within 5 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS)).. Outside of the triangle and dynasty system that he grew up in, Pippen was worse than Jeff Green (14 on 40% alongside Hakeem) - he was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer.

Accordingly, the proper way to perceive MJ and Pippen is that MJ was simply good enough to win with Pippen's decade-worst passing and efficiency among 90's sidekicks - the resulting winning spotlight is why Pippen started making All-NBA in 1992 (5th season).. Compare this trajectory to 4th-year Jamal Murray from the 2020 Playoffs - Jokic wasn't good enough to win with Murray's 27/5/7 on 63% true shooting (better than Pippen ever played), so Murray wasn't elevated to media accolade thereafter like Pippen.. This is just a simple example but it applies to anyone that fails to win with Iggy-caliber help from the sidekick.

was about to say dray is a poor man’s anthony mason on a good day. dray lucked into the best of the best situations

[Hey Yo]

was about to say dray is a poor man’s anthony mason on a good day. dray lucked into the best of the best situations

Anthony Mason never put up 32-15-9 in the postseason

[warriorfan]

Anthony Mason never put up 32-15-9 in the postseason

Anthony Mason never played with Steph Curry

[PeroAntic]

For a team to win with non-scorers like Draymond, Rodman, Pippen or abnormally-low scoring help, they need a goat scorer with ground-breaking skill that a unique system can be built around.


No you don't, two high level scorers (Steph and Klay) are enough and the rest of the scoring can be distributed if there is enough depth and role players that know how to score in the system. But a defensive anchor who is known for his positional IQ and ability to switch, plus an elite passer, is not someone you can just replace with a random star.

Its pathetic how critical you are of stars teaming up (Lebron) when you analyze basketball through literally the same lens - star power operationalized through ppg. boo hoo Pippen didn't score 25 ppg, he didn't need to ffs, everyone has a role in a championship winning team. You need the pieces to fall together perfectly so the dumb counterfactuals are meaningless when you know how difficult it is to win a title.