View Full Version : Lakers are +6.8 points better per 100 possessions with Big Bad Bron on the floor
With LeBron: +1.4
Without: -5.4
I was told he no longer had any impact though.
1987_Lakers
01-03-2023, 01:54 PM
Guys like full court and spurs m8 looking really dumb right now.
AlternativeAcc.
01-03-2023, 02:04 PM
Guys like full court and spurs m8 looking really dumb right now.
Those booger-picking dweebs have never not looked dumb. :lol
Low level autists who cling to LeKings name for negative attention were never worthy of debate. They are simply here to serve as fodder for the rest of us. :confusedshrug:
Im Still Ballin
01-03-2023, 02:15 PM
LA should give this AD + LeBron tandem one more shot next season. Both have shown that they're still elite. They can win a championship if they make the right moves/signings in the off-season. And cross their fingers for good health.
Guys like full court and spurs m8 looking really dumb right now.
He actually has a better on/off than AD now. They got excited because he had a slow start due to injury and illness.
LA should give this AD + LeBron tandem one more shot next season. Both have shown that they're still elite. They can win a championship if they make the right moves/signings in the off-season. And cross their fingers for good health.
There was literally no reason not to go all in THIS year, why would they suddenly change course? They aren’t trying to win. Unclear why.
LeBron should leave and I think there’s a good chance he does after they refused to get him help again. This is literally the worst team in the league without AD if LeBron doesn’t score 40. And AD is out most of the time these days
NBAGOAT
01-03-2023, 02:30 PM
There was literally no reason not to go all in THIS year, why would they suddenly change course? They aren’t trying to win. Unclear why.
LeBron should leave and I think there’s a good chance he does after they refused to get him help again. This is literally the worst team in the league without AD if LeBron doesn’t score 40. And AD is out most of the time these days
they dont think they can win even with trades and tbf they may be right. the roster is that barren outside of lebron/ad. Then again you can look at the nets and see how a trade for royce oneale and few small signings in warren and yuta and they're looking like the best team in the league but they had other good nba players before too
SouBeachTalents
01-03-2023, 02:49 PM
LA should give this AD + LeBron tandem one more shot next season. Both have shown that they're still elite. They can win a championship if they make the right moves/signings in the off-season. And cross their fingers for good health.
They don’t really have much of a choice but to try running it back with AD, but let’s be real, you literally cannot rely on him to stay healthy, and would frankly be foolish to expect otherwise at this point. If they’re able to get a good return for him, they should at least consider trading him.
they dont think they can win even with trades and tbf they may be right. the roster is that barren outside of lebron/ad. Then again you can look at the nets and see how a trade for royce oneale and few small signings in warren and yuta and they're looking like the best team in the league but they had other good nba players before too
This is a good team with Hield and Turner in place of WB
NBAGOAT
01-03-2023, 03:06 PM
This is a good team with Hield and Turner in place of WB
dont think its enough to compete. Still dont even have a fifth starter unless they get something decent for bev+nunn
dont think its enough to compete. Still dont even have a fifth starter unless they get something decent for bev+nunn
It is. LeBron and AD won with KCP as their third option. This team is solely bad because of the Westbrook trade.
hold this L
01-03-2023, 04:20 PM
LA should give this AD + LeBron tandem one more shot next season. Both have shown that they're still elite. They can win a championship if they make the right moves/signings in the off-season. And cross their fingers for good health.
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612747&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=2544,203076&OnlyCommonGames=true
Both are making a big difference when they play, and Lakers are awful without the two of them.
Full Court
01-03-2023, 06:03 PM
Guys like full court and spurs m8 looking really dumb right now.
You prove over and over again that you're incapable of anything beyond the most shallow analysis.
He's leading his team to the lottery, and you and OP are all, "Bu-bu-bu-but he scored 30 points!!!!!"
You can show me all the "advanced stats" you want, but I know a stat padding dead weight when I see it.
Truth hurts. :confusedshrug:
old man single handedly saving the season giving AD time to recover.
the dream is still alive. all they need to do is scrape into a play-in seed and take advantage of a younger more talented team in a 1 or 2 game series
dankok8
01-03-2023, 06:49 PM
OP said a few weeks ago that Lebron is washed up and only puts up stats because he's shooting a lot.
I said in the middle of his worst struggles that he's still clearly at least a top 10 player in the NBA.
AlternativeAcc.
01-03-2023, 06:55 PM
OP said a few weeks ago that Lebron is washed up and only puts up stats because he's shooting a lot.
I said in the middle of his worst struggles that he's still clearly at least a top 10 player in the NBA.
Ether
8Ball
01-03-2023, 07:05 PM
OP said a few weeks ago that Lebron is washed up and only puts up stats because he's shooting a lot.
I said in the middle of his worst struggles that he's still clearly at least a top 10 player in the NBA.
RRR3 said that when LeBron had a bad couple of games early in the season, which LeBron was playing pretty bad to his standard. Definitely not top 10 in the first 15 games.
LeBron played himself into being 2nd team all-nba / top 10 as of right now.
dankok8
01-03-2023, 07:07 PM
RRR3 said that when LeBron had a bad couple of games early in the season, which LeBron was playing pretty bad to his standard. Definitely not top 10 in the first 15 games.
LeBron played himself into being 2nd team all-nba / top 10 as of right now.
Ok so he overreacted. 15 games is a tiny sample size.
SouBeachTalents
01-03-2023, 07:44 PM
OP said a few weeks ago that Lebron is washed up and only puts up stats because he's shooting a lot.
I said in the middle of his worst struggles that he's still clearly at least a top 10 player in the NBA.
Yeah, he was claiming guys like Jaren Jackson was better than him :lol I was hesitant to put him top 10 for a while, but the latest stretch of games I'd say he currently is.
Full Court
01-03-2023, 08:20 PM
old man single handedly saving the season giving AD time to recover.
the dream is still alive. all they need to do is scrape into a play-in seed and take advantage of a younger more talented team in a 1 or 2 game series
Single handedly saving the season?
:biggums:
The Lakers are 13-16 when Lebron plays. To everyone other than a Bronie that's called ruining their season. :lol
8Ball
01-03-2023, 08:41 PM
Ok so he overreacted. 15 games is a tiny sample size.
Yes he overreacted. But saying a player is "washed" in his 20th year playing bad to his normal standard is sports fan behaviour.
Now he corrected himself once evidence was presented.
OP said a few weeks ago that Lebron is washed up and only puts up stats because he's shooting a lot.
I said in the middle of his worst struggles that he's still clearly at least a top 10 player in the NBA.
Well he proved me wrong. LeGod :bowdown:
Yeah, he was claiming guys like Jaren Jackson was better than him :lol I was hesitant to put him top 10 for a while, but the latest stretch of games I'd say he currently is.
LeBron was playing like crap it’s not unwise to think a guy his age finally hit a cliff. I’ve seen enough to know he was just injured and ill now though. Jaren Jackson isn’t better than LeBron but he’s pretty far up on the best player list. Possibly DPOY and a good offensive player to boot. He’s definitely top 30 so far, likely higher. Idk where I’d put LeBron now but definitely top 15. If he still had the motor to play defense he could still be in the running for best player but that’s unrealistic to expect at his age.
AussieSteve
01-04-2023, 05:25 AM
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612747&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=2544,203076&OnlyCommonGames=true
Both are making a big difference when they play, and Lakers are awful without the two of them.
The on/off stats the LeBron and AD since AD joined the Lakers say a lot about the impact of each player.
In the 127 games that both have played in, for
1. Both players on the floor,
2. LBJ on only,
3. AD on only,
4. Neither on
The Lakers have OffRtg / DefRtg / NetRtg of
1. 113.4 / 107.3 / +6.1
2. 115 3 / 108.1 / +7.2
3. 111.6 / 112.6 / -1.0
4. 94.0 / 104.1 / -10.1
I don't know how to explain this, but LeBron's impact seems much higher. Higher in fact on both ends of the floor. And it's over a large enough number of games to be meaningful IMO.
Spurs m8
01-04-2023, 06:03 AM
You prove over and over again that you're incapable of anything beyond the most shallow analysis.
He's leading his team to the lottery, and you and OP are all, "Bu-bu-bu-but he scored 30 points!!!!!"
You can show me all the "advanced stats" you want, but I know a stat padding dead weight when I see it.
Truth hurts. :confusedshrug:
They're not too bright, are they?
Or is lottery acceptable to bronies now?
Full Court
01-04-2023, 07:58 AM
They're not too bright, are they?
Or is lottery acceptable to bronies now?
Well, they kinda have to embrace losing to be Bronies in the first place.
They win when LeBron is on the court. It’s not his fault they can’t do anything when he’s on the bench. Make better arguments fellas cuz the facts are on my side. He’s also 38 so expecting him to be some flawless superstar is pretty funny.
ShawkFactory
01-04-2023, 11:46 AM
The on/off stats the LeBron and AD since AD joined the Lakers say a lot about the impact of each player.
In the 127 games that both have played in, for
1. Both players on the floor,
2. LBJ on only,
3. AD on only,
4. Neither on
The Lakers have OffRtg / DefRtg / NetRtg of
1. 113.4 / 107.3 / +6.1
2. 115 3 / 108.1 / +7.2
3. 111.6 / 112.6 / -1.0
4. 94.0 / 104.1 / -10.1
I don't know how to explain this, but LeBron's impact seems much higher. Higher in fact on both ends of the floor. And it's over a large enough number of games to be meaningful IMO.
Damn.
Damn.
Those stats I think are usually better if adjusted but it’s never surprising that LeBron rates well in them even well past his prime.
Spurs m8
01-04-2023, 03:16 PM
Well, they kinda have to embrace losing to be Bronies in the first place.
Absolutely.
Anyone who is still a bronie in 2023 does a lot of losing in life
1987_Lakers
01-04-2023, 05:13 PM
You prove over and over again that you're incapable of anything beyond the most shallow analysis.
He's leading his team to the lottery, and you and OP are all, "Bu-bu-bu-but he scored 30 points!!!!!"
You can show me all the "advanced stats" you want, but I know a stat padding dead weight when I see it.
Truth hurts. :confusedshrug:
You're too hard headed to realize that this is a team game. Just because a great player is playing on a shitty team and they have a losing record does not make that player "empty stats". It's why you claiming young MJ was "empty stats" is one of the dumbest things you have said.
All the metrics show you the Lakers are a better team when LeBron is on the court, but you still choose to ignore it, but keep doing it, it's only gonna make you look more dumb.
You're too hard headed to realize that this is a team game. Just because a great player is playing on a shitty team and they have a losing record does not make that player "empty stats". It's why you claiming young MJ was "empty stats" is one of the dumbest things you have said.
All the metrics show you the Lakers are a better team when LeBron is on the court, but you still choose to ignore it, but keep doing it, it's only gonna make you look more dumb.
They outscore their opponents when he’s on the court in fact. Full Retard thinks LeBron should score from the bench I guess.
Full Court
01-04-2023, 06:11 PM
They outscore their opponents when he’s on the court in fact. Full Retard thinks LeBron should score from the bench I guess.
^Just a couple weeks ago this clown was saying Lebron was washed and a shell of his former self. :roll:
Just shows that he's incapable of any type of actual insight into the game. Not a clue what's even going on.
Full Court
01-04-2023, 06:13 PM
You're too hard headed to realize that this is a team game. Just because a great player is playing on a shitty team and they have a losing record does not make that player "empty stats". It's why you claiming young MJ was "empty stats" is one of the dumbest things you have said.
All the metrics show you the Lakers are a better team when LeBron is on the court, but you still choose to ignore it, but keep doing it, it's only gonna make you look more dumb.
And you don't realize that you're actually making my point for me. Basketball IS a team game, which is why individual stats that don't lead to the team winning are considered EMPTY stats.
But let me play your game for a minute. Do you think that such a thing as "empty stats" exists? If so, how do you define empty stats?
^Just a couple weeks ago this clown was saying Lebron was washed and a shell of his former self. :roll:
Just shows that he's incapable of any type of actual insight into the game. Not a clue what's even going on.
Well he is a shell of his former shelf. You know damn well prime LeBron would be averaging like 36/10/10 in this league. And he was playing really badly, it was a reasonable position to take. He proved me wrong though. LeGod!
And you don't realize that you're actually making my point for me. Basketball IS a team game, which is why individual stats that don't lead to the team winning are considered EMPTY stats.
But let me play your game for a minute. Do you think that such a thing as "empty stats" exists? If so, how do you define empty stats?
Empty stats would be when you’re putting up big counting stats but not making much (or any of) an impact. LeBron is factually making a big impact on his team when he’s on versus off the court whether you like it or not.
ShawkFactory
01-04-2023, 07:29 PM
And you don't realize that you're actually making my point for me. Basketball IS a team game, which is why individual stats that don't lead to the team winning are considered EMPTY stats.
But let me play your game for a minute. Do you think that such a thing as "empty stats" exists? If so, how do you define empty stats?
Someone who is on a decent or good team who puts up numbers but doesn't really move the needle in any way. Maybe they don't move the ball at all, don't communicate with teammates well on the court, don't do any of the little things, etc.
NBAGOAT
01-04-2023, 07:50 PM
And you don't realize that you're actually making my point for me. Basketball IS a team game, which is why individual stats that don't lead to the team winning are considered EMPTY stats.
But let me play your game for a minute. Do you think that such a thing as "empty stats" exists? If so, how do you define empty stats?
well if we're talking winning then anything short of leading a team to a title can be considered not enough winning. That means say even jokic last year was putting up somewhat empty stats, denver had no chance to win a title and were a 1st rd exit. Anyone reasonable however knows his team was pretty awful and he absolutely carried them.
If your team would win more games with you than without you, then you're not putting up empty stats pretty much unless there's a large chasm between your stats and your impact. This usually only happens with the very worst defenders in the league however. Their defense cancels out their offense.
1987_Lakers
01-04-2023, 07:54 PM
Full court doesn't even know what "empty stats" mean. :oldlol:
AlternativeAcc.
01-04-2023, 08:03 PM
Full court doesn't even know what "empty stats" mean. :oldlol:
Bro he's literally retarded. We're talking about a grown man who goes around spamming the word "dingus" and actually thinking it's clever.
Like... he's actually retarded. :oldlol:
Full Court
01-04-2023, 08:20 PM
Bro he's literally retarded. We're talking about a grown man who goes around spamming the word "dingus" and actually thinking it's clever.
Like... he's actually retarded. :oldlol:
You sound like a dingus. :lol
If the shoe fits....
Full Court
01-04-2023, 08:20 PM
Full court doesn't even know what "empty stats" mean. :oldlol:
I'm still waiting to hear how you define it. Funny how you couldn't even answer that question. Trying to think something up? :roll:
1987_Lakers
01-04-2023, 08:27 PM
I'm still waiting to hear how you define it. Funny how you couldn't even answer that question. Trying to think something up? :roll:
3 guys already answered the question for you. But empty stats players are usually inefficient scorers who provide not much else on the court. Someone like Jerry Stackhouse is a great example of this.
Full Court
01-04-2023, 08:37 PM
3 guys already answered the question for you. But empty stats players are usually inefficient scorers who provide not much else on the court. Someone like Jerry Stackhouse is a great example of this.
So even by YOUR definition, which I disagree with, Bronie is STILL empty stats. His efficiency is fairly good this year outside of his three-point clunking, but he scores a lot of points, gets uncontested rebounds that don't impact the game at all, and is a net negative on defense. But he'll pile up the points in losses. You can't get much more empty statsy than that.
1987_Lakers
01-04-2023, 08:44 PM
So even by YOUR definition, which I disagree with, Bronie is STILL empty stats. His efficiency is fairly good this year outside of his three-point clunking, but he scores a lot of points, gets uncontested rebounds that don't impact the game at all, and is a net negative on defense. But he'll pile up the points in losses. You can't get much more empty statsy than that.
By my definition? LeBron's TS% is above league average and he is also one of the best passers in the league.
:facepalm
You are grasping for straws at this point. All the metrics show he is a positive on the floor and your only angle now is to lie.
Full Court
01-04-2023, 11:08 PM
By my definition? LeBron's TS% is above league average and he is also one of the best passers in the league.
:facepalm
You are grasping for straws at this point. All the metrics show he is a positive on the floor and your only angle now is to lie.
Metrics without context are worthless. I've pointed this out numerous times. "Bu-bu-bu-but you're LYING!!!!"
:lebroncry:
Lol. Another indicator that you lost the argument. Go ahead and try to argue that he's actually a good defender. I'm waiting. :lol
AussieSteve
01-05-2023, 04:29 PM
Since lebron returned from injury, the lakers are 10-4 when he scored 28 or more, and 2-6 when he either didn't play or scored less than 28.
His stats don't seem empty to me.
GrayGoat
01-05-2023, 04:30 PM
LeGoat
Spurs m8
01-05-2023, 06:17 PM
Metrics without context are worthless. I've pointed this out numerous times. "Bu-bu-bu-but you're LYING!!!!"
:lebroncry:
Lol. Another indicator that you lost the argument. Go ahead and try to argue that he's actually a good defender. I'm waiting. :lol
Wait, someone is arguing he is a good defender?
Ummmmmm....
1987_Lakers
01-05-2023, 06:18 PM
Wait, someone is arguing he is a good defender?
Nobody is. I said in another post full court is getting desperate and resorting to lying.
Make you should stop being lazy and read the previous posts.
Since lebron returned from injury, the lakers are 10-4 when he scored 28 or more, and 2-6 when he either didn't play or scored less than 28.
His stats don't seem empty to me.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iFJtxt0rs_M/TUiFuotLOuI/AAAAAAAAACw/fP5HuJ53emk/s1600/kg1.gif
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iFJtxt0rs_M/TUiFuotLOuI/AAAAAAAAACw/fP5HuJ53emk/s1600/kg1.gif
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iFJtxt0rs_M/TUiFuotLOuI/AAAAAAAAACw/fP5HuJ53emk/s1600/kg1.gif
NBAGOAT
01-05-2023, 10:26 PM
Metrics without context are worthless. I've pointed this out numerous times. "Bu-bu-bu-but you're LYING!!!!"
:lebroncry:
Lol. Another indicator that you lost the argument. Go ahead and try to argue that he's actually a good defender. I'm waiting. :lol
what context? the only context you and spursm8 are bringing up in this thread is record. nothing say about AD missing 1/3 of the season or Lebron missing 1/4.
Here's some extra context to add. Lakers have 3 positive players by raptor, ad at 9.2(dominant), lebron at 4.2(fine top 20 ish among stars), and reaves at 3.3(really good role player). Every other guy on the team who plays significant minutes isnt just below average, they're -2.0 or worse. That's close to the replacement level line and means those guys provide no value at all basically, they're on the fringe between the nba and the g-league. Epm isnt quite as bad but having ad and lebron as your only 2 above average players is historically bad.
You can frame this situation another way because AD is the best player on the team. Consensus was AD was playing at a MVP level when healthy so how bad does his supporting have to be for a team to be below .500 with a MVP level player. I'm guessing you agree with that but maybe you dont. You ofc may argue this is because lebron is terrible and puts up empty stats yada yada but there's far more evidence supporting the fact that lebron's still a clear all star and the rest of the team is just that bad
Full Court
01-05-2023, 10:47 PM
Nobody is. I said in another post full court is getting desperate and resorting to lying.
Make you should stop being lazy and read the previous posts.
So you admit he sandbags on defense so he can put all his energy into going after the point record....
but he's NOT empty stats?
:roll:
Ok, champ.
Since lebron returned from injury, the lakers are 10-4 when he scored 28 or more, and 2-6 when he either didn't play or scored less than 28.
His stats don't seem empty to me.
Imagine making a thread and trying to make a point about the +/- impact on court trying to discredit Lebron who happens to be best in it, simply the NUMBER 1 by far out of every single NBA player still playing :roll:
These guys are so dumb, it's unprecedented in human history :oldlol:
Full Court
01-06-2023, 05:12 PM
Imagine making a thread and trying to make a point about the +/- impact on court trying to discredit Lebron who happens to be best in it, simply the NUMBER 1 by far out of every single NBA player still playing :roll:
These guys are so dumb, it's unprecedented in human history :oldlol:
^This guy might legit be illiterate. He doesn't even realize that this thread was made to fluff Bronie, and he thinks it's a Bronie-bashing thread. :roll:
What a dingus.
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