Kobe 2004 finals was shamefull

[90sgoat]

I'm not gonna lie, I've been quiet on this for two decades, because I didn't want to give Bronies ammuniton, but I remember watching that 2004 series, sitting in my old childhood room, moved back home again, because of being broke and there was Kobe and Karl and Shaq and Payton and I was feeling again, hey, this might be cool, cause those were my some of my favorite players as a kid. And then Kobe just went off on this megalomical, team sabotaging shooting spree and honestly, I felt like he became more like AI than MJ at that very moment.

I didn't watch ball again until 2008 when Celtics won and it was probably because seeing Kobe do that, you kind of thought, that's it, this league sucks now.

Of course the year before I'd seen Lebron run around like a clumsy oaf who couldn't hit a jumper, but it was Kobe's bricks that took me out of the game for 5 years.

[1987_Lakers]

Why does everyone make anti Kobe threads to try to make Kenny lose his shit? Only person who can make him meltdown is me.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm not gonna lie, I've been quiet on this for two decades, because I didn't want to give Bronies ammuniton, but I remember watching that 2004 series, sitting in my old childhood room, moved back home again, because of being broke and there was Kobe and Karl and Shaq and Payton and I was feeling again, hey, this might be cool, cause those were my some of my favorite players as a kid. And then Kobe just went off on this megalomical, team sabotaging shooting spree and honestly, I felt like he became more like AI than MJ at that very moment.

I didn't watch ball again until 2008 when Celtics won and it was probably because seeing Kobe do that, you kind of thought, that's it, this league sucks now.

Of course the year before I'd seen Lebron run around like a clumsy oaf who couldn't hit a jumper, but it was Kobe's bricks that took me out of the game for 5 years.


what?

[bison]

Eh, its okay to admit it. All the greats have had black marks. Lebron has his 2011 disaster and his Laker debacles, Durant and Curry and Magic have all choked before, and Kobe has 2004 finals and his quit job in Phoenix. The only player with a spotless career is MJ.

[bison]

2004 - kobe: 38.1%
2004 - fisher: 30.6%
2004 - george: 39.3%
2004 - payton: 32.1%
2004 - malone: 33.3%
2004 - medvidenko: 35.3%
2004 - rush: 31.8
2004 - walton: 38.5%




almost nobody shot well for LA.. just shaq and Larry brown said he was letting Shaq score to focus on others.

kobe was coming off major knee and shoulder surgery the summer before that season and he wasn't the same all year

plus the trial and shaq feud


it was almost a no win situation for kobe

Give the Piston's credit. Detroit's defense was phenomenal. I quit watching the series after game 4 because I could tell the Lakers were not going to pull it out. The Lakers beat a lot of quality teams over their 3-peat run but never ran into a defensive juggernaut like those Pistons.

[1987_Lakers]

Eh, its okay to admit it. All the greats have had black marks. Lebron has his 2011 disaster and his Laker debacles, Durant and Curry and Magic have all choked before, and Kobe has 2004 finals and his quit job in Phoenix. The only player with a spotless career is MJ.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_im-bGOyFVk

[bison]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_im-bGOyFVk

Obviously I'm talking about performance over an entire series/playoffs. that you had to find one particular play/sequence to try to tarnish MJ just says more about how perfect he is

[1987_Lakers]

Obviously I'm talking about performance over an entire series/playoffs. that you had to find one particular play/sequence to try to tarnish MJ just says more about how perfect he is

He also missed two free throws right before that

[Full Court]

He also missed two free throws right before that

Oh no!!!! He didn't!!!!!! :roll:


Bronies....


I agree with OP. Kobe's 2004 finals was shameful. There's a reason he's not in the top ten.

[1987_Lakers]

Oh no!!!! He didn't!!!!!! :roll:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf6XdZQNYoQ

1:29:04 mark

[Full Court]

OK gramps we get it you hate everyone. now go die like your idol wilt

:lebroncry:

I guess in your obsessed little mind, ranking Kobe where he actually belongs is "hating" him, huh. :roll:

Go overpay for some more basketball cards.

[ArbitraryWater]

Eh, its okay to admit it. All the greats have had black marks. Lebron has his 2011 disaster and his Laker debacles, Durant and Curry and Magic have all choked before, and Kobe has 2004 finals and his quit job in Phoenix. The only player with a spotless career is MJ.

laker debacles?

I genuiney consider pp to be trolling when they say this.

[SouBeachTalents]

jordan has 95 as a less than 100% black eye

kobe has 04 as a less than 100% black eye

lebron has 07 at 100%

2011 at 100%

2013 at 100% before ray Allen's shot

2015 at 100%



the only time you might be able to say lebron wasn't at full strength and bombed was 2014 but even then it was from massive steroid usage making him dehydrated so he got cramps and blamed it on a faulty air conditioner even though guys played in the nba for decades without central air comfy temperatures


it's best for lebron fans not to broach the subject
You're probably the only person on earth would would actually argue LeBron's 2015 Finals were worse than Kobe's '04 :lol Although I'm starting to get the sense you just type crazy shit for attention like 3ball.

Kobe quitting in Game 7 against Phoenix and getting swept in 2011 are two other black eyes, and 6/24 would've been an all-timer had Gasol/Artest not come to the rescue.

[ArbitraryWater]

jordan has 95 as a less than 100% black eye

kobe has 04 as a less than 100% black eye

lebron has 07 at 100%

2011 at 100%

2013 at 100% before ray Allen's shot

2015 at 100%



the only time you might be able to say lebron wasn't at full strength and bombed was 2014 but even then it was from massive steroid usage making him dehydrated so he got cramps and blamed it on a faulty air conditioner even though guys played in the nba for decades without central air comfy temperatures


it's best for lebron fans not to broach the subject

its best not for you to broach anything taking about black eye series where Bron won FMVP with a historic statline and another year in which he garnered the 2nd most FMVP votes on a losing side ever... lol

[ShawkFactory]

You're probably the only person on earth would would actually argue LeBron's 2015 Finals were worse than Kobe's '04 :lol Although I'm starting to get the sense you just type crazy shit for attention like 3ball.

Kobe quitting in Game 7 and getting swept in 2011 are other black eyes, and 6/24 would've been an all-timer had Gasol/Artest not come to the resue.

Just now starting?

[bison]

Oh no!!!! He didn't!!!!!! :roll:


Bronies....


Bronies should be the LAST people to make fun of a star for choking free throws at crucial moments :lol:

[Full Court]

Bronies should be the LAST people to make fun of a star for choking free throws at crucial moments :lol:

No kidding. :lol

[FKAri]

Eh, its okay to admit it. All the greats have had black marks. Lebron has his 2011 disaster and his Laker debacles, Durant and Curry and Magic have all choked before, and Kobe has 2004 finals and his quit job in Phoenix. The only player with a spotless career is MJ.

What quit job in Phoenix? The losing in 7 after up 3-1 series?

[Kblaze8855]

41/30
28/15
30/19
38/17


The overall and 3 point shooting of the best perimeter players on each of the 4 teams the Pistons played those playoffs.


2 all stars and 2 hall of famers in that mix.

Why do you think the nba outlawed old school defense?

[SouBeachTalents]

lebrons 2013 finals was putrid

worst finals mvp ever

https://i.postimg.cc/kXPj3Qdx/Screenshot-20230104-175021-Chrome.jpg
LeBron shot 35% from 3 in those Finals, so suffice to say, that chart is complete bullshit :lol

[Axe]

You can clearly see how easily butthurt mj stans become when somebody points out that he himself too had embarrassing games in the playoffs. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-finals-stats-decline-chart-2013-6

It was made during the series. he definitely upped those percentages in game 7. I clearly stated that he sucked for 6 games
OK, but you can't just post a graph that shows stats from literally less than half the series then pass it off as being his numbers for the entire series :lol That's just being disingenuous.

[ArbitraryWater]

in 2013 through 6 games it was one of the worst performances in nba history. 29% outside of 5 feet. bricked seemingly every jumper all series before game 7. it was a shit show. Ray allen gave him his legacy back

bruh, no one cares.

you cant just restrictt it to one area of the court. it literally has no meaning.

and you cant arbitrariy cut a series off at a point either.

he posted 25/11/7 on 45% shooting, 53% TS.

James tied Tommy Heinsohn's record set in 1957 for most points in an NBA Finals Game 7 win, and won his second straight NBA Finals MVP.

stay mad.

[bison]

laker debacles?

I genuiney consider pp to be trolling when they say this.

Failing to make the playoffs for a possible 3rd time with LA while being gifted hall of fame teammates are HUGE black marks on Lebrons career

[Spurs m8]

Obviously I'm talking about performance over an entire series/playoffs. that you had to find one particular play/sequence to try to tarnish MJ just says more about how perfect he is

Exactly.

1987 trying to win and giving us victory instead....AGAIN

[Spurs m8]

laker debacles?

I genuiney consider pp to be trolling when they say this.

You're a fvcking moron then...though we already knew that.

Bubble award aside, the guy has been a complete fvckkng failure for the lakers....

Hes been lottery, apart from the season he got beaten in round 1 when AD went down and he got really exposed as a terrible sport, leader and it cemented what we knew...hes an absolute front runner and the biggest quitter we've ever seen.

Then aside along with all this...he has sold the farm and the lakers are not in a good position going forward...no assets

There's no argument against this...it's all undeniable facts...so stop being a d1ckhead

[NBAGOAT]

Failing to make the playoffs for a possible 3rd time with LA while being gifted hall of fame teammates are HUGE black marks on Lebrons career

but he's past his prime and no westbrook is not a hof teammate along with any of those veterans the lakers picked up. He was gifted one elite teammate AD who uh misses a lot of games; lebron is quite injury prone too now going back to the past his prime thing. Lakers had one positive player besides lebron last year by EPM, AD and he played 40 games.

[SouBeachTalents]

but he's past his prime and no westbrook is not a hof teammate along with any of those veterans the lakers picked up. He was gifted one elite teammate AD.
A guy who literally misses half the games.

[1987_Lakers]

You're a fvcking moron then...though we already knew that.

Bubble award aside, the guy has been a complete fvckkng failure for the lakers....

Hes been lottery, apart from the season he got beaten in round 1 when AD went down and he got really exposed as a terrible sport, leader and it cemented what we knew...hes an absolute front runner and the biggest quitter we've ever seen.

Then aside along with all this...he has sold the farm and the lakers are not in a good position going forward...no assets

There's no argument against this...it's all undeniable facts...so stop being a d1ckhead

"bubble award"

the same championship that kept you up at 3 am making threads about LeBron

[1987_Lakers]

lebron was literally dared to shoot by popovich and left wide open all series. he finally started making shots in game 7 after Ray allen saved his legacy. it's a putrid finals mvp/ring. nobody respects it that isn't a raging leC*ck rider

Finals stats

LeBron James - 28.4 ppg on 48.4 FG%, 10.2 rpg, 7.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.9 bpg

Kobe Bryant - 25.3 ppg on 41.2 FG%, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg

[1987_Lakers]

lebrons 2013 finals was putrid

worst finals mvp ever

https://i.postimg.cc/kXPj3Qdx/Screenshot-20230104-175021-Chrome.jpg

This dude caught lying again about LeBron. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Finals stats

LeBron James - 28.4 ppg on 48.4 FG%, 10.2 rpg, 7.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.9 bpg

Kobe Bryant - 25.3 ppg on 41.2 FG%, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg
I didn't even realize that the series Kenny is eviscerating LeBron for, LeBron's ppg and efficiency are literally what Kobe averaged for his career in the Finals. And on even WORSE efficiency to boot :lol

[1987_Lakers]

I didn't even realize that the series Kenny is eviscerating LeBron for, LeBron's ppg and efficiency are literally what Kobe averaged for his career in the Finals. And on even WORSE efficiency to boot :lol

It's career Finals stats. Even then, a Kobe fan has no right to shit on anyone's Finals numbers.

And LeBron in in the 2nd half of game 6 and game 7 was outstanding in 2013.

I vividly remember him bringing Miami back into the game during game 6 in that 4th quarter.

Kobe on the other hand wet his pants in his only game 7 Finals game in 2010.

[1987_Lakers]

we have every right to shit on lebron because kobe grinded out victories in tough defensive battles while lebron just shit the bed or quit or hid in the corner when he was being dared to shoot in mostly finals losses to role players and midgets

It's not even the Finals, LeBron has Kobe beat in every other big game.

LeBron James in elimination games: 33.7 points, 7.5 assists, 10.8 rebounds, 49.1 FG%

Kobe in elimination games: 22.3 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 41.4 FG%

LeBron James in Game 7s: 35/10/6 on 49 fg%
Kobe in Game 7s: 22/8/5 on 39 fg%

Shit is straight up comical.

[1987_Lakers]

you didn't even realize kobes finals with shaq would have lowered his ppg cause shaq said "if you don't feed the dog the dog won't guard the house"

Playing with Shaq should have helped his efficiency in the Finals but it didn't.

2000: 37 fg%
2001: 41.5 fg%
2004: 38 fg%

[1987_Lakers]

You're telling me past prime Drexler had a higher fg% than Kobe in the Finals?

How sad.

[1987_Lakers]

did he have a major injury/illness

kobe literally played every finals with shit lebron would miss a month or 2 for


that's sad

now will you get over your obsession and get laid one time. no one's gonna laugh at your stretch marks. just turn the lights off or something

Someone's getting mad, lol.

Not my fault Kobe was a horrific big game performer.

[1987_Lakers]

and yet he won 5 out of 7
3 with Shaq and 1 by going 6/24.

[1987_Lakers]

he saved shaq in 2000 twice and carried him all year and playoffs in 2001 and 2002 till they got to the finals (admitted by shaq in their 1 on 1 interview)



Really? Kobe admitted Shaq "carried him to a championshp"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x5PDgv5y-S0

[1987_Lakers]

he did in 2000.

Nuff said

[8Ball]

3 peat finals stats:

Shaquille O'Neal: 35.9 PPG, 15.2 RPG, 3.5 APG, 59.5%.

Kobe Bryant: 22.0 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, 42.5%.


"Kobe won 5/7"


Laugh my ass off.

[8Ball]

I remember from those finals everyone was saying "pass the ****ing ball to Shaq"

[WhiteKyrie]

It was bad in the sense that, he should’ve been feeding Shaquille O’Neal. Ben Wallace, was a very good to borderline great defender. But he was getting demolished.

Kobe was fed up with the narrative that he was a sidekick at that point, and even though he had no training camp, lost a lot of muscle due to knee surgery and shoulder issues throughout the year, his physicality was never up to snuff. He dominated the entire year on extreme mental fortitude and sheer force of will. But yes, he was gunning way too hard for a finals MVP. To make matters worse, their third best player, Karl Malone was injured, which really derailed the Lakers. That’s a much more competitive series, possibly a Lakers win if he doesn’t get injured. They had minimal help outside of Shaq and Kobe.

The biggest issue wasn’t Kobe being aggressive.

It was the methodology with which Kobe took to take aim at the Finals MVP. The entirely wrong approach to try to take in such a good defense. He consistently was settling for in his ideology, sexy, looking jumpshots, with a much longer Tayshaun Prince draped all over him. Who contested all said jump shots.

In just the very next season, and then the season after that, the 2005 team was basically the same, yet Sophomore Dwyane Wade absolutely butchered that defense by not bailing the defense out settling for jump shots, he burned every single man defender in front of him, and took it strong with a lot of guts to the rim and destroy the defense from the inside out, that’s how you beat a defense like that. You don’t just settle for jump shots.

[Full Court]

find one current/former player that shares your opinion since the 80s

and the guys before that will only give their top 5 and it's all 60s players

there's legit nobody like you. there's hundreds of guys that share my opinion. I have both kobe and lebron in my top 10. that's the consensus. only a small group of internet trolls have a top 10 without 1 or the other and only guys near death disparage both


you're an extreme minority

You couldn't be more wrong. Look up every ranking list. Your'e the one who's in an extreme minority. Nobody has Kobe in the top 5.

Even ESPN, who inflates both Lebron and Kobe's rankings because of their popularity has him at #9.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105801/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-10-1

Oh yeah, I'm an extreme minority all right. :roll:

[GrayGoat]

You know it’s bad when full court is yamming facts on your dome. Poor Kenny

[Full Court]

I clearly said internet trolls and you give me lists made by paid internet trolls that do nothing but trash people in collumns like they belong on realgm and ISH lol

and they all have lebron 2nd or 3rd so that isn't your opinion either


when I said people's lists I mean REAL people. meaning players and fans

I recognize my ranking of Lebron is a minority opinion. But after he retires and the media hype wears off, he'll drop to a more reasonable consensus spot, just like Kobe after he retired.

And your definition of an internet troll is anyone who isn't a Kobe fluffer. Why would the opinion of a pro basketball player on all time rankings carry any more weight than yours or mine or anyone else? Just because they can play doesn't make them good analysts, and certainly doesn't mean they don't have the same biases everyone else has.

[WhiteKyrie]

the Pistons let shaq get his according to Larry brown and they pressed full court with excellent team defense that seemingly never ran out of gas while collapsing on kobe every time he put the ball on the floor and everyone other than shaq was shooting horribly. malone was hurt. shaq was mailing it in on the offensive boards hiding on the weak side whenever kobe had the ball cause he wanted kobe to fail. shaq was petty. he said himself "if you don't feed the dog the dog won't guard the house".. he sabotaged kobe and left him hanging all series

Kobe also played bad and took the wrong approach. Yes they single covered Shaq, my entire point, Bryant should have fed him. No excuses. Wade with a vastly inferior Shaq, eviscerated the same qualify championship caliber squad and that very good team defense. He made the same mistakes STILL against the 2008 Celtics and 2010 Celtics.

[WhiteKyrie]

This dude is off his damn rocker

[hold this L]

*lots of excuses*

it was almost a no win situation for kobe

46% TS while the gameplan was to let him shoot as much as possible

https://media.tenor.com/ekFUhoTTckAAAAAM/kobe-sign.gif

[ImKobe]

He played injured and averaged close to those numbers for the better part of the 2nd half of that '04 season. He had shoulder & knee surgery going into the season & re-injured his shoulder during the season. It was nowhere near close to Bran's 2011 choke when Bran had been playing at a near MVP level all season & POs and melted down in the Finals in close games.

[Johnny32]

Why does everyone make anti Kobe threads to try to make Kenny lose his shit? Only person who can make him meltdown is me.

definitely not true. i was booting kenny out of yahoo basketball chat rooms 25 years ago. i've destroyed him on every board i've seen him on since.

[Full Court]

dude the world has both kobe and lebron top 5 or so. only this place and realgm still has guys holding onto either one being out of the top 10

it's a failed experiment. you all tried your best. even I did. but kobe and lebron are the guys mentioned with MJ the most. it's not going away. Kobe has the respect among the community and death factor with the best highlight package and just as many things over MJ as lebron has plus the magic level laker legacy. lebron has all kinds of totals records. neither guy is budging

"the world"??

What world is this that you live in? Where are these masses of people who have Kobe top 5? You saying so doesn't make it so. Let's see your evidence. Surely you must base your silly statement on some sort of actual facts, right?

[ArbitraryWater]

He played injured and averaged close to those numbers for the better part of the 2nd half of that '04 season. He had shoulder & knee surgery going into the season & re-injured his shoulder during the season. It was nowhere near close to Bran's 2011 choke when Bran had been playing at a near MVP level all season & POs and melted down in the Finals in close games.

what?

Kobe averaged 26/6/6 on 45% in the new year, which incudes a 1 minute game so its actuay higher.

[warriorfan]

I raise you LeBron in 2011

[8Ball]

2007, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015

pick a finals. any finals. they're all pathetic

On average all of these better than Kobe average.

[8Ball]

2000 was worse than 2004.

[Hey Yo]

Kobe's combined 12-47 in games 5 and 6 in the 2000 Finals definitely saved Shaq.

[Hey Yo]

Played on one leg yet took 47fga.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Gary Payton was pretty damn shameful in that series.

[1987_Lakers]

everyone was.

Not Shaq.