Why is Bill Russell not the GOAT?

[davidkimchi]

Why is Bill Russell rarely mentioned as the GOAT or even in top 10 GOAT lists?

-11 NBA championship wins (almost double most GOAT candidates)
-12 time NBA all star
-5 time MVP
-one of the greatest defenders in NBA history
- rebounding (22.5 per game), shot blocking (the best ever), enough scoring (15.1 points), smart passing and igniting the fast break with outlet passes as well as any big man ever has.
-captained the gold-medal winning U.S. national basketball team at the 1956 Summer Olympics.

1958–1966: Eight straight NBA championships
In the 1958–59 NBA season, Russell averaged 16.7 points per game and 23.0 rebounds per game

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cnlV59fQLZI/XJAEFheu1vI/AAAAAAAAYSU/xQCeeoi_hdAwHkKTEIyjvXu_heXNXhbvwCLcBGAs/s1600/e1b1f-1513159742-800.jpg

[Spurs m8]

Because some others were better...

Not LeBarry though...LeBarry is lower on the list

[fourkicks44]

The fact he had more rebounds than points hurts his GOAT status IMHO.

He won and I guess ultimately it didn't matter but in terms of individual standing as a player his lack of scoring doesn't reflect well on him when his contemporaries are all great scorers.

[Axe]

Players that have stellar offensive capabilities tend to attract the media and fans more.

[1987_Lakers]

-one of the greatest defenders in NBA history


He is easily the GOAT defender.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503095-Bill-Russell-s-incredible-defensive-impact-Why-he-is-easily-the-GOAT-Defender

Nobody comes close to his defensive impact.

The reason why you never hear him in GOAT discussions is because of his lack of scoring & because he played around 60 years ago.

[iamgine]

There's also this notion that Chamberlain was the clearly better player between the two and ol' Billy Russ was lucky that his team was really good most of the time.

[kawhileonard2]

Because he only had to win 2 series to win the title and got bye's. No one from 1984 had to play 2 series but 4 series to win it all. Also joined team with the league mvp winner and ROY.

[John8204]

Well to start off with he belongs in the top ten list (as does George Mikan who is the middle ground between Bill and Jordan). He played in a different era and everyone had to find a specific role because roster spots were limited. Sam Jones, Bob Cousy, and John Havlicek are all award named players so that hurts his legacy.

[8Ball]

He was garbage offensively, and couldn't shoot free throws.

[ArbitraryWater]

cause he averaged 15 ppg on 44% shooting

[Wardell Curry]

>99% of people that comment on such things as GOAT and pretend their lists are correct never watched Russell play. This day and age, most people that make such lists never watched Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, or even Jordan. A lot of the people that post today never watched Shaq nor did they watch Kobe. None of us can offer intelligent commentary on the matter. Bill Russell won two consecutive high school state championships, two consecutive NCAA championships, and won it all eleven out of thirteen seasons in the NBA. I'm sure it was all an accident and he got carried by his teammates.

[Full Court]

A case can be made for Russell as GOAT. Personally, I have him #2.

I think that both Wilt and Russell get penalized for playing in a weaker era, but I think you have to rank people relative to their competition at the time. And relative to that era's players, Wilt and Russell stood head and shoulders above everyone else.

[ArbitraryWater]

A case can be made for Russell as GOAT. Personally, I have him #2.

I think that both Wilt and Russell get penalized for playing in a weaker era, but I think you have to rank people relative to their competition at the time. And relative to that era's players, Wilt and Russell stood head and shoulders above everyone else.

no case can be made for a guy averaging 15 ppg on 44% shooting


come off it

[Full Court]

no case can be made for a guy averaging 15 ppg on 44% shooting


come off it

Well, we all know that Bronies such as yourself only look at cumulative scoring stats, but Russell was an example of forgoing stat-padding in favor of leading his team to wins. LOTS of them. He didn't need to be a huge scorer, because he had multiple players on his team who could put up 20+ a game. He was also the only player at the time who could go head to head with Wilt and come out on top.

[Norcaliblunt]

Because Nike and Gatorade were not around back then.

Corporations choose the goat.

[bison]

Rim protector and elite perimeter defender. Could dribble, post up, pass. One of the best rebounders. Maybe a bit too unselfish. But a leader on the court and could score when needed. 11 rings. He has a case. But it’s still MJ for me.

[Full Court]

Rim protector and elite perimeter defender. Could dribble, post up, pass. One of the best rebounders. Maybe a bit too unselfish. But a leader on the court and could score when needed. 11 rings. He has a case. But it’s still MJ for me.

You can't say he was too unselfish when he won 11 chips...

[AlternativeAcc.]

Because his game doesn't translate well to every era. Lebrons does.

Case closed.

[TheMan]

Russell is definitely GOAT tier but he's not individually the best center ever, I have KAJ, Shaq, Wilt, TDuncan and The Dream as being better 2 way centers than Russ...

[Dbrog]

Depends what people value. I personally value peak and winning and he's the best combo of both, so he is actually my GOAT. Doubt you will find more than 2 people on this site who would agree with me though

[Full Court]

Because his game doesn't translate well to every era. Lebrons does.

Case closed.

Congratulations on the dumbest post in the thread. :lol

What a bozo.

[bison]

Jordan, bill, wilt, Kobe all have cases for the GOAT

[Axe]

Because Nike and Gatorade were not around back then.

Corporations choose the goat.
So in other words, mj was a manufactured/media-driven goat? Lmao.

[JBSptfn]

So in other words, mj was a manufactured/media-driven goat? Lmao.

Exactly.

[Full Court]

The media tried manufacturing Bronie into the GOAT, the only problem is that nobody bought it....except for a handful of low-IQ Bronie fluffers.

[Spurs m8]

The media tried manufacturing Bronie into the GOAT, the only problem is that nobody bought it....except for a handful of low-IQ Bronie fluffers.

Exactly.

Why is it only bronies that say he's goat?

Where as all the neutrals say MJ.

Why is that?

[8Ball]

Not 1 general manager in today's game would draft 6ft10 player that can't score and can't shoot free throws.

Not 1.

[Full Court]

Not 1 general manager in today's game would draft 6ft10 player that can't score and can't shoot free throws.

Not 1.

^Showing off his abysmal basketball IQ again. :lol

Greatest defensive player in the history of the sport. "Wouldn't get drafted..."

Making Canadians look bad. :confusedshrug:

[CurryOverLebron]

Is he a stationary facilitator like most big men or dynamic facilitator like Giannis who uses his ball handling and athleticism to pass on the move.

[8Ball]

^Showing off his abysmal basketball IQ again. :lol

Greatest defensive player in the history of the sport. "Wouldn't get drafted..."

Making Canadians look bad. :confusedshrug:

95% of the NBA players in the 60s wouldn't get drafted in today's NBA even in their primes.

Being greatest defensive player against worse than modern college competition doesn't mean much.

And centers that are useless offensively and can't shoot free throws have zero value in today's NBA.

[8Ball]

Is he a stationary facilitator like most big men or dynamic facilitator like Giannis who uses his ball handling and athleticism to pass on the move.

Neither.

Think Rudy Gobert type and Gobert is being run out of the league.

[Axe]

Neither.

Think Rudy Gobert type and Gobert is being run out of the league.
But gobert has a negative impact on the floor. Russell, otoh, propelled the Cs to multiple winning seasons. So his presence is invaluable to his team.

[HylianNightmare]

Id rather someone argue him than lebron that's for sure

[8Ball]

But gobert has a negative impact on the floor. Russell, otoh, propelled the Cs to multiple winning seasons. So his presence is invaluable to his team.

Replace Bill Russell with Gobert in the 1960s and same result.

[8Ball]

https://i.ibb.co/X5byWYT/Screenshot-2023-01-06-at-8-56-33-PM.png



This player is better than Gobert? No way in hell.


Gobert would be like Wilt in that era.

[Axe]

Replace Bill Russell with Gobert in the 1960s and same result.
What? Russell also coached his team to two titles my man. No way they are the same lmao.

[8Ball]

Do you think Russell would ever be able to play and coach at the same time in this era?

[And1AllDay]

becos rangz dont matter as a team achievement neway

bran > kobe > russellz> kareem > mike/duncan

[kawhileonard2]

becos rangz dont matter as a team achievement neway

bran > kobe > russellz> kareem > mike/duncan

You mean Mike > Magic > Duncan > Russell > Kareem > Kobe > Lebron

Lebron won 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted him and didn't even make the playoffs with prime Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook as well as lost in round 2 with Shaq.

[Axe]

Do you think Russell would ever be able to play and coach at the same time in this era?
No. But we're not sure if gobert can exactly be successful like him during the jurassic 60s era either.

[And1AllDay]

You mean Mike > Magic > Duncan > Russell > Kareem > Kobe > Lebron

Lebron won 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted him and didn't even make the playoffs with prime Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook as well as lost in round 2 with Shaq.

bruh your tired ass arguement is flat

bran > bean > b russ > kareem > timmy > mike top 6 list

[kawhileonard2]

bruh your tired ass arguement is flat

bran > bean > b russ > kareem > timmy > mike top 6 list

Bro your tired ass argument is flat

You mean Mike > Magic > Duncan > Russell > Kareem > Kobe > Lebron

Lebron won 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted him and didn't even make the playoffs with prime Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook as well as lost in round 2 with Shaq.

[And1AllDay]

Bro your tired ass argument is flat

You mean Mike > Magic > Duncan > Russell > Kareem > Kobe > Lebron

Lebron won 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted him and didn't even make the playoffs with prime Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook as well as lost in round 2 with Shaq.

if yoy copy paste ur repeat garbage its flat buh..your done

[kawhileonard2]

if yoy copy paste ur repeat garbage its flat buh..your done

Bro your tired ass argument is flat

You mean Mike > Magic > Duncan > Russell > Kareem > Kobe > Lebron

Lebron won 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted him and didn't even make the playoffs with prime Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook as well as lost in round 2 with Shaq.

if yoy copy paste ur repeat garbage its flat buh..your done

[Overdrive]

^Showing off his abysmal basketball IQ again. :lol

Greatest defensive player in the history of the sport. "Wouldn't get drafted..."

Making Canadians look bad. :confusedshrug:

I'm not saying Russell wouldn't get drafted, but Ben Wallace went undrafted.


Why is Bill Russell rarely mentioned as the GOAT or even in top 10 GOAT lists?

-11 NBA championship wins (almost double most GOAT candidates)
-12 time NBA all star
-5 time MVP
-one of the greatest defenders in NBA history
- rebounding (22.5 per game), shot blocking (the best ever), enough scoring (15.1 points), smart passing and igniting the fast break with outlet passes as well as any big man ever has.
-captained the gold-medal winning U.S. national basketball team at the 1956 Summer Olympics.

1958–1966: Eight straight NBA championships
In the 1958–59 NBA season, Russell averaged 16.7 points per game and 23.0 rebounds per game

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cnlV59fQLZI/XJAEFheu1vI/AAAAAAAAYSU/xQCeeoi_hdAwHkKTEIyjvXu_heXNXhbvwCLcBGAs/s1600/e1b1f-1513159742-800.jpg

What hurts him the most ist that defensive stats, accolades and FMVPs didn't exist.

Imagine:

11x NBA Champ
5x MVP
8x FMVP
6x DPOY
13x All NBA
13x All Defense
12x All Star

15ppg/22rpg/8bpg/4spg.

That definately looks like a GOAT resume.

[Wally450]

I wouldn't be mad if someone mentioned Russell as the GOAT. I personally have him at 4 behind MJ, LeBron and KAJ. I feel like those are the 4 that would be mentioned the most in you asked like 15,000 people who the GOAT is.

[dankok8]

He's my GOAT...

[WhiteKyrie]

Because he played on loaded teams relative to the era. And he wasn’t always the best player on BOTH sides of the floor. Or in some cases relatively even close offensively. Where as Jordan had monumental team success in the modern era and was the best player on both sides of the floor, for both teams on the floor, basically at all times.

[Full Court]

Because he played on loaded teams relative to the era. And he wasn’t always the best player on BOTH sides of the floor. Or in some cases relatively even close offensively. Where as Jordan had monumental team success in the modern era and was the best player on both sides of the floor, for both teams on the floor, basically at all times.

That's why I have MJ at #1 and Russell at #2.

[1987_Lakers]

Because he played on loaded teams relative to the era.

That "loaded" team stuff is somewhat of a myth. Yes, he had the best roster compared to the rest of the league early in his career, but in the 2nd half of the 60's, Wilt's team's were just as loaded if not more, still beat Wilt most of the time. And even in his early years when he was winning titles, he still had to go through West & Baylor in the Finals, which was the best duo in NBA history for a long time.

[Axe]

I wouldn't be mad if someone mentioned Russell as the GOAT. I personally have him at 4 behind MJ, LeBron and KAJ. I feel like those are the 4 that would be mentioned the most in you asked like 15,000 people who the GOAT is.
This.

[Axe]

That "loaded" team stuff is somewhat of a myth. Yes, he had the best roster compared to the rest of the league early in his career, but in the 2nd half of the 60's, Wilt's team's were just as loaded if not more, still beat Wilt most of the time. And even in his early years when he was winning titles, he still had to go through West & Baylor in the Finals, which was the best duo in NBA history for a long time.
Others may point out tho that those two never won a title together.

[Hey Yo]

95% of the NBA players in the 60s wouldn't get drafted in today's NBA even in their primes.

Being greatest defensive player against worse than modern college competition doesn't mean much.

And centers that are useless offensively and can't shoot free throws have zero value in today's NBA.

A rich man's Joel Anthony that can rebound at a high level.