Most egregious lack of recognition among these five? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

RRR3

01-10-2023, 07:12 PM

manu came off the bench so it's understandable

shaq only really tried for a few years so that's understandable

Duncan never wanted the challenge of defending other great big men so that's also not a surprise

steph could maybe have 2 finals mvps but it's a toss up between him and iggy

kobe having 1 mvp is by far the biggest f*ck up because he's an 11 time first team all nba player and 9 time first team all nba defender with historic scoring seasons/performances/streaks and has carried some scrub teams to the playoffs.. Kobe could have easily gotten the jordan 88 treatment. the Westbrook treatment.. the harden treatment.. the Iverson treatment and so on... but they failed to respect what kobe did in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2013

all were great stories. but the narrative changes every year
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Real Men Wear Green

01-10-2023, 07:12 PM

Shaq but it's his own fault for not coming into camp in shape so often.

FultzNationRISE

01-10-2023, 07:12 PM

Shaq and Manu seem like they have the greatest disconnect, but then again Shaq wasnt a big regular season guy and Manu came off the bench. So it's not as if these were significant snubs.

8Ball

01-10-2023, 07:13 PM

What year did Kobe deserve more than the 1 MVP he got?

2005
2006
2007

Record sucked too much

2008 he won it

After 2009 it was LeBron 4/5 years.

8Ball

01-10-2023, 07:14 PM

Manu being a two time all star.

Shaq being a 1 time MVP

Duncan never winning a DPOY

Kobe being a 1 time mvp.

Steph having 1 finals mvp.

Which in your eyes is the greatest error? Or are you fine with all of them?

Shaq's absolutely destroying the competition in the finals of 2000,2001,2002 masks how much he used the regular season to "get into shape".

The man straight up admits he did zero working out in the off season and used the season to play his way into shape. Voters don't give MVPs to players that do that.

Kblaze8855

01-10-2023, 07:15 PM

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I feel like you didn’t need to bold 2009. Winning 65 games in the west with a pretty good but not all time elite team usually gets a guy like Kobe the mvp. It’s understandable Lebron got it with 66 or whatever wins and a worse team but…09 Kobe is a standard mvp level season all things considered.

8Ball

01-10-2023, 07:18 PM

Axe

01-10-2023, 07:18 PM

Shaq. He was a bit lazy or laidback. But imagine if he was more hardworking.

Axe

01-10-2023, 07:25 PM

there was no need to bold any of it. you don't need the top seed to win mvp if you have a historic season individually and kobes done that 3 or 4 times to make the playoffs with a shit team or an injured team.

why do so many other guys get recognized for these types of seasons but kobe never did
Because kobe used to have plethora of help. Duh.

SouBeachTalents

01-10-2023, 07:26 PM

Manu never had truly elite production for most of his career due to playing limited minutes, so I'm not shocked he didn't make more all-star games. I esp don't feel that strongly about it when the likes of Lou Will, Odom, Terry, Kukoc etc. never made a single all-star game.

Shaq for sure had better than 1 MVP level talent, but there's honestly no other season where I think he was the most deserving candidate, maybe '05 but Nash had just as good of an argument.

Duncan never winning DPOY would be my choice. He anchored an elite defense for years, and was losing out to the likes of Marcus Camby. He should have definitely won at least once.

Like Shaq, outside of the year he won I don't see any other season Kobe was the most deserving candidate. He was probably the best choice in '06, but CP3 could have easily won MVP in '08, so it basically evens out.

And while it's become an extremely unpopular opinion, I've always felt Iggy was deserving of FMVP in 2015.

Others I'll add to the mix; Pippen never winning DPOY, and Sheed & Marion never making a single All-Defensive team.

Axe

01-10-2023, 07:31 PM

it's so funny how the media said kobe and shaq disqualified each other and then when kobe has the least amount of help out of anyone it's about having the best record regardless of your teammates again (see lebron with miami)
Lol but kobe had phil jackson as his head coach bt, a six-time champion who led jordan and the bulls to a dynasty before he came to the lakers.

In 2005, kobe didn't make the playoffs once he got fired due to the 'feud'.

Axe

01-10-2023, 07:41 PM

kobe and Odom missed 20 games each and the lakers had a good record before that and Rudy T stepping down for health reasons. they were 24-19 and in the playoffs

kobe proved that was a fluke the very next year dragging kwame and smash to 1 rebound away from knocking out the suns
Yep, funny how he also blew a 3-1 lead in the playoffs without a reliable big man. :oldlol:

RRR3

01-10-2023, 07:42 PM

I feel like you didn’t need to bold 2009. Winning 65 games in the west with a pretty good but not all time elite team usually gets a guy like Kobe the mvp. It’s understandable Lebron got it with 66 or whatever wins and a worse team but…09 Kobe is a standard mvp level season all things considered.
I didn't bold it because it wasn't an MVP caliber season, I bolded it because he had no case and that wasn't even a close vote. LeBron got literally 90% of the first place votes, it wasn't a contested race at all. He was also MVP caliber in 2003, but I bolded that because again no case. Being MVP caliber doesn't mean you have a case. Even 2013 Kobe wouldn't have been the worst MVP ever in terms of how good they actually were, but again no case. It's not about whether he was an MVP level player, everyone knows Kobe was that. It's about whether he had a case. He had a case in 06, 07 and 08. You could argue he should have won all 3 years but that's it.

Axe

01-10-2023, 07:44 PM

kobe didn't blow it. the lakers couldnt get a rebound and tim thomas hit a three to cost them the series. then he dropped 50 and lost then got hated on for shooting too much so he played a team game setting up guys and got blown out

kobe had a great series overall
If that's true, then that only shows he's not an elite playmaker overall.

ShawkFactory

01-10-2023, 07:45 PM

None are particularly bad.

Kobe and Shaq only having 1 each sounds strange but when you go season by season there was always someone else with a great case. Same with Duncan. Duncan carrying the team offensively early in his career didn't help him in the DPOY case given what he had to do on the other end.

Manu was playing 28 minutes a game.

Curry should probably have 2 FMVPs though.

John8204

01-10-2023, 07:46 PM

Manu being a two time all star. If you are going to put a guy in the Hall on the first ballot you would think he'd make more All-Star teams. But he was a sixth man competing against starters.

Shaq being a 1 time MVP - Yeah I don't think Shaq was ever the most valuable player on his team. Everyone knows he was lazy and fat and hurt his teams as much as he helped them.

Duncan never winning a DPOY I don't know what year he should have gotten it...his prime was the Mutombo/Wallace/Artest years.

Kobe being a 1 time mvp. For me this is likely the biggest slight, we know this was politics

Steph having 1 finals mvp. He still has time for another one.

RRR3

01-10-2023, 07:48 PM

kobe averaged 40ppg for multiple months in 2003

he had the top seed out west in 2009 and just got to the finals the year prior and saved team USA. and 2013 he carried an injured squad to the playoffs and tore his achilles in half in the process. the Lakers needed everything from kobe while the heat didn't even need lebron to suit up to make it out east
If you're gonna give Kobe 2006 and 2007, T-Mac should get 2003. He also was still playing with prime Shaq in case you forgot :lol
Getting to the finals the year prior and doing well in the 2008 Olympics has literally nothing to do with the 2009 regular season. He had a worse record than LeBron with a much better supporting cast, and his stats were much worse. LeBron beat him 109-2 in first place votes, no one thought it was a debate besides morons like you.

Are we bragging about Kobe "dragging" a team with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash and Pau Gasol to the playoffs? :lol Also they were still out of the playoffs when he got hurt, they had to win 2 of the next 3 without him to get in. And they did. Please tell us how a crippled Wade is getting the Heat through the 2013 playoffs :yaohappy:

RRR3

01-10-2023, 07:49 PM

paul didn't deserve it over kobe in 2008 lol. he lost the mvp show down matchup at the end of the year and David west made the allstar game. Pau didn't. kobe also played half the season with kwame at center
David West over Pau :yaohappy:

RRR3

01-10-2023, 07:58 PM

any great season can be mvp caliber depending on the medias criteria that specific year

there is no set criteria so it changes all the time

- best player on the best team ( curry, Duncan )

- who makes their teammates better ( nash )

- who did something historic regardless of record (jordan, harden, Westbrook, joker)

- who should win it if a guy that's number 1 already has 2 mvps (dirk over nash, soon to be luka over jokic)

- make up award ( jordan in 98 for malone in 97 )

and even now giannis is being boycotted from the discussion as well

Booker was run away league mvp with the classic format but that year jokers statistics were historic.

funny how it always changes

I think nash even got away with one where his team wasn't a top seed. why? because he didn't have amare for a while. sounds like when kobe didn't have anyone in 2013 for half the year and whoever did play was half of what they once were.

let's ignore jordan stealing one of magic or birds mvps in 1988

let's ignore Kareem willing mvps on losing teams

let's just say "kobe needs the best record overall and the best stats overall and the least help out of anyone"

that's his standard.
Kobe had prime Dwight Howard for the entire year in 2013, why do you constantly lie :lol

Kblaze8855

01-10-2023, 08:02 PM

I didn't bold it because it wasn't an MVP caliber season, I bolded it because he had no case and that wasn't even a close vote. LeBron got literally 90% of the first place votes, it wasn't a contested race at all. He was also MVP caliber in 2003, but I bolded that because again no case. Being MVP caliber doesn't mean you have a case. Even 2013 Kobe wouldn't have been the worst MVP ever in terms of how good they actually were, but again no case. It's not about whether he was an MVP level player, everyone knows Kobe was that. It's about whether he had a case. He had a case in 06, 07 and 08. You could argue he should have won all 3 years but that's it.

What makes 07 a more traditional mvp season than 09?

How often had anyone on Kobe’s tier won 65 games and not been in mvp talks? It may have happened but not while playing with anyone on the level of his teammates at the time. Usually a guy that good wins 65 if he’s not getting mvp talk he had another guy like him stealing credit.

09 Kobe winning mvp would be way more in line with history than 06 or 07.

RRR3

01-10-2023, 08:06 PM

What makes 07 a more traditional mvp season than 09?

How often had anyone on Kobe’s tier won 65 games and not been in mvp talks? It may have happened but not while playing with anyone on the level of his teammates at the time. Usually a guy that good wins 65 if he’s not getting mvp talk he had another guy like him stealing credit.

09 Kobe winning mvp would be way more in line with history than 06 or 07.
I think before LeBron took the next step, Kobe was generally seen as the best player in the league from 06-08. I don't ever think it's weird if the best player in the league wins MVP, and many thought he was. He just had shitty teams. Kareem won MVPs on shitty teams.

RRR3

01-10-2023, 08:07 PM

Howard's back was 50% that year. he wasn't the same. he wasn't motivated. after that year he became a journeyman bum. don't bring up his name lol

I would have gladly traded howard for wade or even bosh
A journeyman bum who made All-NBA the next season :yaohappy:

RRR3

01-10-2023, 08:10 PM

hes so stupid he's making my point for me and doesn't even realize it
Except there's historical precedent for winning MVPs on meh teams if you're considered the best player even before Kobe. The best players are rarely on meh teams because teams are very rarely incompetent enough to surround that level of player with complete garbage.

RRR3

01-10-2023, 10:00 PM

the f*cked up thing is lebron literally needed the Olympic infuence with kobe to become a league mvp type player and he wins the award over the guy that held his hand to a gold medal while playing in the Leastern conference on a team that would eventually get slapped around by the tragic while Kobe would beat that same team for the nba title

and people routinely say Hakeem was the real 95 mvp over robinson for a situation just like that

but they don't say it about Kobe

why? narrative
LeBron was second in MVP voting in his 3rd year in the league, he didn't need shit. Poor Kenny raging so hard he can't think straight again

RRR3

01-10-2023, 10:00 PM

he was good for 1 more year. who was his competition

the guy averaged 18 points on put backs. big deal
You're absolutely raging right now. Can I expect another anti-semitic meltdown coming up?

RRR3

01-10-2023, 10:36 PM

https://media.tenor.com/5XEghMgLeNkAAAAM/mad-donaldduck.gif
Higher as a kid than PEAK Kobe in 2006 MVP voting.

Where does it hurt?

RRR3

01-10-2023, 10:40 PM

8 voters left kobe off their ballot. it was a sabotage/collusion among the media

kobes 2006 season had the highest ppg and single game scoring records in nba history according to pace

it's literally the greatest individual season. he was run away mvp
Even you don't believe that.

RRR3

01-10-2023, 10:47 PM

for strictly regular season

yes. yes I do. beyond a shadow of a doubt. with who he had and what he had to do to carry that team to the post season was remarkable. with kobe they come 1 rebound from eliminating the sun's. without Kobe they probly get the 1st pick in the lottery
Well then you're retarded. But we already knew that. LeBron carried a similar cast to 66 wins. The Brick only managed a measly 45. How mad does that make you?

Reggie43

01-10-2023, 10:58 PM

Weird to see Manu in there. How many allstar selections did he actually deserve playing besides a Goat level talent in Duncan and Goat level coach in Popovich?

RRR3

01-10-2023, 11:01 PM

Now do efficiency :lol

Uh oh!

RRR3

01-10-2023, 11:10 PM

Literally no matter how bad you rage and lie Kobe will never be ranked higher than LeBron. You wasted your life arguing against something that became a consensus opinion :yaohappy:

kawhileonard2

01-10-2023, 11:14 PM

Kobe had prime Dwight Howard for the entire year in 2013, why do you constantly lie :lol

And Lebron lost to him with HCA.

SouBeachTalents

01-10-2023, 11:19 PM

but most players rank kobe over lebron. your media polls from 2016 and realgm are getting kind of tiresome
Actually, even the players rank LeBron ahead of Kobe :lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3pVQwrUUAA1YQu.jpg:large

Kblaze8855

01-10-2023, 11:19 PM

Weird to see Manu in there. How many allstar selections did he actually deserve playing besides a Goat level talent in Duncan and Goat level coach in Popovich?

That seems like a weird argument against being an all star.

Axe

01-10-2023, 11:25 PM

you're failing to realize that the guys that take jordan are probably kobe guys. that's not a ranking. that's a select 1 guy poll. kobes votes went to MJ. lebron guys have him ahead of both. Kobe and Jordan guys have them both ahead of lebron

and that also doesn't factor in retired players who for the vast majority pick kobe
Ugh, quit being on meth. :ohwell:

RRR3

01-10-2023, 11:25 PM

Reggie43

01-10-2023, 11:31 PM

That seems like a weird argument against being an all star.

He was an allstar twice because they won and those guys were the main reasons they won. Its not as if Manu would have been a multiple time Allstar purely on skill/numbers.

Kblaze8855

01-10-2023, 11:36 PM

That skill/numbers doesn’t really need to be combined. Manu was much better at basketball than a lot of people with better numbers. The two seasons he started were his two all star seasons. Accepting a bench role behind worse players doesn’t make you worse. It makes you more useful than most on your level if anything.

People love talking up the unselfishness of people like Manu they just don’t act like it when it’s time to look at the numbers of someone unselfish.

Reggie43

01-10-2023, 11:52 PM

RRR3

01-10-2023, 11:56 PM

So a guy that had prime numbers of around 16pts 4rebs 5asts and who was hardly efficient deserves how many allstar berths?
Manu was incredibly efficient wtf lol

Axe

01-10-2023, 11:59 PM

name jordan guys that aren't also kobe guys and vice versa

most of the league wears kobe shoes and votes MJ as the goat. I don't think they're taking lebron 2nd lol

if MJ was removed from the vote kobe probly gets more of the left overs
Only 3ball i guess

Kblaze8855

01-11-2023, 12:03 AM

Hard to say because the numbers have a little to do with it, but he was certainly better at basketball then a number of people who were in the All-Star game in years that he wasn’t. I can’t imagine many people think Josh Howard was better at basketball. Tony Parker made 6 and I wouldn’t take him over Manu. Sam Cassell was underrated but not better than Manu. Hell Steve Francis. You aren’t taking Steve Francis over Manu just because 42 minutes a game produces better raw numbers.

What are we really talking about here?

Reggie43

01-11-2023, 12:13 AM

Kblaze8855

01-11-2023, 12:25 AM

You’re the one talking about reputation. I’m talking about basketball. I don’t know nor do I care what Steve Francis reputation would be if he were on the spurs. I’m talking about how good they were at basketball. If the Pacers could add prime Manu or 2004 Steve Francis, who was an all-star over prime Manu we both know there is no hesitation if it’s up to you so I have to ask again…..

What are we even talking about?

Reggie43

01-11-2023, 12:48 AM

Does 12.8ppg Manu deserve that Allstar berth in 2004 over Francis?

Kblaze8855

01-11-2023, 01:16 AM

I’ve talked to you about basketball enough to know you arent stupid enough to judge to basketball players that simply. You would take Manu over Steve even if Steve’s league leading minutes and dribbling 16 seconds at a time gives him better raw numbers. I’d never put Francis over prime Manu in anything but a dunk contest so for a third time…what are we talking about?

Might as well be talking Mchale vs Jerry Stackhouse. Only starting full time for 4-5 seasons on a deep team that won one of its rings while he played 17 minutes a game doesn’t remove our eyes.

Having the keys to a car going nowhere doesn’t make you a great driver. Just means you’re the best that shitty team had to work with. Guys like Manu, Mchale, Bobby Jones, early Worthy and so on arent worse at basketball for fitting immense talent into smaller roles to help their teams.

They’re better for it. That’s what basketball is supposed to be about. My team vs yours not your top scorer vs mine.

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 01:17 AM

Most over recognition?

Steve Nash with 2 MVPs
Chris Bosh with 11 All-Stars
Moses Malone with 3 MVPs
Yao Ming basically being an all-star his entire career
Kobe's 12 All-Defensive teams

Reggie43

01-11-2023, 03:06 AM

The thing is Manu wasnt really that much better than the guys that got selected before him and even the years he was an allstar they were guys that performed at his level that also deserved to be there.

He was an extremely smart all around player but some of his weaknesses got covered up and his skills became magnified because he was playing on a great team.

Having a high bball iq doesnt make you instantly better than the other guy because players mostly have different strengths in their game to help their team win.

HoopologyPhD

01-11-2023, 09:52 AM

Shaq stands out because he has a strong argument for being GOAT during his dominant period.

ShawkFactory

01-11-2023, 10:03 AM

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 10:35 AM

kobe literally changed an entire generation/culture in the 2008 olympics by showing kids attention to defense and intensity. lebron produced a documentary about it. you should check it out

and yes his last 2 weren't deserving but he missed all defensive 1st team in 2001 and 2002 and those were arguably his best years defensively so they balance out

and don't give me the phil jackson post rape book quote where he blamed him for his own daughters rape case. we all know what the players and coaches around the league have to say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IrdvY2UoYY

I wasn't aware how Kobe played defense in the Olympics has any relevance to how he defended in the NBA.

Only seasons Kobe deserved to be in the All-Defensive team were from 00-02 and '08 & maybe '09.

Around 5. From about 2003 until he retired he mostly inconsistent. He was always a very good man defender when he wanted, but a bad help defender for the most part who was always out of position when he was defending off-ball. To have 12 All-defensive teams is a joke.

90sgoat

01-11-2023, 11:17 AM

Manu being a two time all star.

Shaq being a 1 time MVP

Duncan never winning a DPOY

Kobe being a 1 time mvp.

Steph having 1 finals mvp.

Which in your eyes is the greatest error? Or are you fine with all of them?

Yeah, those are all big time omissions.

The worst one is probably Steph only having 1 finals MVP. He should obviously have all for his rings. That team is nothing without Steph. Iggy won it because the league couldn't handle having Lebron play such a bad series. Same as when Kawhi won, when it was obviously Duncan. Bruce Bowen is not a FMVP but that's essentially what the league decided to save the rep for Lebron.

Duncan never winning DPOY is bad, but he did have some good competition. Kobe and Shaq cancelled each other out for a lot of the time. I think that's fair. If you want to play with another top 10 goat player, then you'll win less MVPs.

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 11:21 AM

Now that you are done posting vids a high schooler would to prove his point, it's time for some actual defensive facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jopi5e46PAY

17:54 mark

Norcaliblunt

01-11-2023, 11:35 AM

Duncan not winning DPOY.

RRR3

01-11-2023, 11:36 AM

Kenny is seconds away from another racist meltdown. You can just sense the little guy desperately holding it back.

ShawkFactory

01-11-2023, 11:39 AM

kobes more known for his on ball defense. all that focussed on was kobe directly under the basket and his roaming

lebrons the all time worst at roaming defense. hes constantly losing guys, getting shoved by teammates, tripping, falling, flopping etc...

lebrons on ball defense however is even worse. all lebrons good at is chase down blocks and gets lucky with gambling for steals sometimes when hes not getting exposed with backdoors or cuts across to the opposite 3 point line

lebron also gets soft picked off of guys intentionally. theres a reason voters stopped picking him for all defensive teams a decade ago

kobe was a stopper. that was his job. he focussed on the guy with the ball/top playmaker/ball handler usually.

In spurts. He wasn't tasked with guarding the other teams best perimeter player all game in the 04-07 years like Hinrich and JKidd were.

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 11:40 AM

kobe was a stopper. that was his job. he focussed on the guy with the ball/top playmaker/ball handler usually.

This is a literal lie. He usually guarded the guard who was least effective on the offensive end after Shaq left.

And no, the vid doesn't just focus on Kobe's off-ball defense, it goes through all aspects of it. Watch it again.

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 11:55 AM

lebron was afraid

Seems to me like Kobe was the one who was afraid of big situations.

Here are Kobe's finals stats

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%

2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%

2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%

2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%

2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%

2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%

2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

Here are Kobe's game seven stats.

44.2 MPG

22.2 points

FG 38.9%

FT 67.3%

8 RPG

5 APG

1 SPG

1.3 BPG

Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.

22.3 PPG

5.8 RPG

3.5 APG

1.3 SPG

1.3 BPG

on a 50.3 TS

and his teams went 9-10 in those games.

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 12:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5PDgv5y-S0

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 12:19 PM

"i slacked off after the first title cause i knew i had a guy that could carry me all year" - shaq

You're telling me Shaq slacked off and still won FMVP in '01 & '02 over Kobe? :oldlol:

Back to the subject. Take Phil Jackson's words: “Kobe's defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league's all-defensive team."

His own coach basically saying his all-defensive teams were undeserved.

Charlie Sheen

01-11-2023, 12:59 PM

I don't know if egregious is the right word, but Shaq would definitely be the one in the OP i am getting into old man arguments defending how great he was.

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 01:00 PM

Boring? Why do you keep replying to me? What I find funny is that we were debating Kobe's defense and you were the first to bring up LeBron (in a failed attempt to get me upset) and once I spammed Kobe's numbers you went on full meltdown mode.

:lol

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 01:02 PM

And yes, Kobe's 12 all-defensive teams were often looked as a joke to people who really watched him play during that time. It was repetitive thing when the NBA would announce their all-defensive teams every year and Kobe would be on that list and I had to read a bunch of comments from fans laughing at the fact that he was on it.

This was a real thing.

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 01:12 PM

because i legit think you have psychosis and have alternate personalities that don't remember any of this. you admitted on here that you had a weightlifting accident and became crippled so you developed an eating disorder and gained 200 pounds then lost weight but were left with loose skin and stretchmarks so i know you're a deeply closeted hermit. that plus never posting pics with any women. not even one time? never taking a break from this place. you have the classic traits of some basement dwelling psychopath

i fear that if i don't degrade you as much as possible that you'l stay in your situation thinking you've won some sort of consolation prize

theres no minor victories for your failed pathetic life of virginity. ISH will not provide you with any endorphins

not while i'm here. i want this place to be depressing for you.

look at yourself... LOOK AT IT

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5d01869724000051178930e8.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_nou pscale

we can fix this with enough shaming. i just need more time. i will post this image for you every time you try interacting with me from now on

Holy shit, what a meltdown

:roll:

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 01:17 PM

Here are Kobe's finals stats

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%

2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%

2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%

2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%

2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%

2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%

2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

Here are Kobe's game seven stats.

44.2 MPG

22.2 points

FG 38.9%

FT 67.3%

8 RPG

5 APG

1 SPG

1.3 BPG

Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.

22.3 PPG

5.8 RPG

3.5 APG

1.3 SPG

1.3 BPG

on a 50.3 TS

and his teams went 9-10 in those games.

RRR3

01-11-2023, 02:14 PM

Kobe had a TS% of 41.1% in the 2000 finals, how is that even possible? :yaohappy:

1987_Lakers

01-11-2023, 02:49 PM

Kobe had a TS% of 41.1% in the 2000 finals, how is that even possible? :yaohappy:

:yaohappy:

RRR3

01-11-2023, 02:54 PM

:yaohappy:
At that point you should just stop shooting but he still insisted on chucking up garbage.

tontoz

01-11-2023, 03:23 PM

Kobe put up more bad perimeter shots than anyone Ive ever seen.

tontoz

01-11-2023, 03:56 PM

already debunked the kobe shot bad in the finals myth. if everyone's shooting 40% for 17 straight years then maybe it's just a sign of better defense at the time

I went back and looked at the 2000 Finals just out of curiosity. Reggie had a TS of 58.8%. Kobe's was 41.1%. :oldlol:

SouBeachTalents

01-11-2023, 04:03 PM

vs. 2000 Pacers
Allen: 22 on 55%TS
Iverson: 27 on 48%TS
Houston: 19 on 54%TS
Kobe: 16 on 41%TS

vs. 2001 76ers
Reggie: 31 on 61%TS
Vince: 30 on 57%TS
Allen: 27 on 61%TS
Kobe: 25 on 50%TS

vs. 2004 Pistons
Redd: 18 on 49%TS (16.6 FGA)
Jefferson: 21 on 54%TS (14.6 FGA)
Kobe: 23 on 46%TS (22.6 FGA)

vs. 2008 Celtics
Johnson: 20 on 54%TS (16.4 FGA)
Rip: 22 on 64%TS (14.2 FGA)
Kobe: 26 on 51%TS (21.8 FGA)

vs. 2009 Magic
LeBron: 39 on 59%TS
Kobe: 32 on 53%TS

vs. 2010 Celtics
Wade: 33 on 65%TS
Kobe: 29 on 53%TS

In the Finals during this era

2000 Reggie: 24 on 59%TS
2000 Rose: 23 on 56%TS
2004 Billups: 21 on 70%TS
2005 Manu: 19 on 64%TS
2005 Billups: 20 on 57%TS
2006 Wade: 35 on 57%TS
2006 Terry: 22 on 55%TS
2007 Parker: 25 on 60%TS
2007 Manu: 18 on 57%TS
2008 Pierce: 22 on 59%TS
2008 Allen: 20 71%TS
2009 Hedo: 18 on 60%TS
2009 Rashard: 17 on 55%TS
2010 Pierce: 18 on 55%TS
2011 Wade: 27 on 61%TS
2011 Terry: 18 on 61%TS
2012 KD: 31 on 65%TS
2012 LeBron: 29 on 56%TS

Kenny uses the complete coincidence that weak teams with notoriously inefficient stars like Iverson & Kidd were making the Finals in the early 2000's. If you look beyond that, you see an annual trend of perimeter stars shooting more efficiently than Kobe did in the vast majority of his Finals.

RRR3

01-11-2023, 04:51 PM

Kobe put up more bad perimeter shots than anyone Ive ever seen.
And he clanged almost all of them whenever he was in the finals :oldlol:

It’s a good thing he was good at the rim and free throw line.

Kblaze8855

01-11-2023, 04:52 PM

already debunked your cherry picked list. it's easy when you only select 1 or 2 people from each finals to find good shooting. mine encompasses every non center basically

you're a joke lol

"duuuuuuurrrr everyone shot great in 2004 cause... Billups.....duuuurrrrrrrr"

You find it more appropriate to compare Kobe’s shooting to Shadnon Anderson and James Posey than the dozen or so star wings playing the same teams like he did? You really talking about Beno and Lindsey Hunter?

RRR3

01-11-2023, 04:52 PM

already debunked your cherry picked list. it's easy when you only select 1 or 2 people from each finals to find good shooting. mine encompasses every non center basically

you're a joke lol

"duuuuuuurrrr everyone shot great in 2004 cause... Billups.....duuuurrrrrrrr"
Your hero didn’t have a single legendary finals and he had 7 tries :yaohappy:

Clonkbe :roll:

RRR3

01-11-2023, 04:52 PM

You find it more appropriate to compare Kobe’s shooting to Shadnon Anderson and James Posey than the dozen or so star wings playing the same teams?
:yaohappy:

Kblaze8855

01-11-2023, 04:59 PM

Of course people shot worse in the best defensive era ever it just appears Kobe shot worse than other wing stars in the same era vs the same playoff teams. Unless the numbers aren’t accurate of course. I don’t care much either way about a percentage point this way or that but unless the data is just made up…it is what it is. What is there to argue?

That it doesn’t matter? You could do that. He’s still better than most if not all of those people listed.

He also missed more of his shots.

What’s the problem with saying so?

RRR3

01-11-2023, 05:21 PM

Kenny has to be the all time easiest poster to make meltdown

Kblaze8855

01-11-2023, 05:26 PM

The lowest shooting finals MVP is like talking about Elon musk losing the most money ever when he still got $130 billion. You pose the question like it reflects poorly when it doesn’t. Who gives a **** which World Series MVP had the lowest on base percentage or whatever?

RRR3

01-11-2023, 05:28 PM

Also weird to point it out for Duncan who was generally considered to be better at defense than offense (not saying he wasn’t great at offense too obviously)

ShawkFactory

01-11-2023, 05:36 PM

I never once cared about jordan having 2 of the worst 3 finals ever.

That's not the information you gave.

ArbitraryWater

01-11-2023, 05:49 PM

All just.

Merely resuts of unfortunate circumstances.

They were a 2nd best in a ot of these, just best only once.

ShawkFactory

01-11-2023, 05:52 PM

for an mvp winner*

Pretty massive distinction.

ShawkFactory

01-11-2023, 06:28 PM

all I ever see on here is kobes 2010 finals getting ripped on. yet the "goat" had 2 worse finals mvps

game 7 is brought up every day. how often is Jordan's game 6 vs the sonics brought up

it's just crazy to me how kobe is put on a different standard. the guys 21 with a sprained ankle and people rip on the guy even after saving shaq twice because his overall percentage in a finals THEY WON ....isn't spectacular.. no shit. he's 21 on a sprained ankle

and no sh*t kobe couldn't shoot well with a cast on his right hand in the 2010 finals. where was Jordan's f*cking cast

I don't care about any of this.