Views on Tesla as a company and Musk?

[oldtimer28]

Curious?

Seems the leftist Tesla lovers are turning on Tesla and Musk for Musk's Twitter purchase.

Thoughts on Tesla the company? Anyone with Teslas or experience in the automotive industry to share their views on the product versus the politics?

[BigKobeFan]

The tesla sucks. Its not there yet. 50 cents to charge 1kwh. And the tank has 75kwh. So its about 35 to 40 bucks a charge. A prius, gs hybrid or something in that range would perform better. So basically you have 275 miles a tank for 35 to 40 bucks which equates to about 8 miles per dollar. For a hybrid, you will get about 10 miles per dollar. So its not really better

[BigKobeFan]

As for musk. I am indifferent of him. I do applaud him for releasing the twitter files at his detriment

[Norcaliblunt]

He’s the man who wants to put a chip in your brain.

[tontoz]

The tesla sucks. Its not there yet. 50 cents to charge 1kwh. And the tank has 75kwh. So its about 35 to 40 bucks a charge. A prius, gs hybrid or something in that range would perform better. So basically you have 275 miles a tank for 35 to 40 bucks which equates to about 8 miles per dollar. For a hybrid, you will get about 10 miles per dollar. So its not really better



First of all most Tesla owners charge at home. I can only assume you are talking about their superchargers and the actual cost is much less than that at most chargers. I guess you live in California if you are seeing .50 pricing. The cost used to be a lot less but inflation has driven the prices up.

[Axe]

Teslas are for the rich or for the upper class.

[tontoz]

Teslas are for the rich or for the upper class.

Strangely enough they just announced a huge price cut today which allows most Model Ys to qualify for the $7500 tax credit.

[BigKobeFan]

First of all most Tesla owners charge at home. I can only assume you are talking about their superchargers and the actual cost is much less than that at most chargers. I guess you live in California if you are seeing .50 pricing. The cost used to be a lot less but inflation has driven the prices up.

Teslas are only really viable in california and places where it doesnt snow

[tontoz]

Teslas are only really viable in california and places where it doesnt snow

:roll:

The best selling car of any kind in Europe was the Model Y for 2022. It was the 6th best selling car of any kind in the US.

Tesla was the leading car brand in Norway.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230110-212853.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230113-112132.jpg

[BigKobeFan]

:roll:

The best selling car of any kind in Europe was the Model Y for 2022. It was the 6th best selling car of any kind in the US.

Tesla was the leading car brand in Norway.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230110-212853.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230113-112132.jpg

have you see those people not getting good mileage in cold weather when the batteries die out? also using the heater in an EV kills the battery.

[Charlie Sheen]

Teslas are only really viable in california and places where it doesnt snow

I have nothing to add to this discussion, but I got to go to Mammoth over New Years and it felt like everyone was driving a Tesla. Guess it really does not matter when you have money to burn on a second house in the mountains :lol

[BigKobeFan]

I have nothing to add to this discussion, but I got to go to Mammoth over New Years and it felt like everyone was driving a Tesla. Guess it really does not matter when you have money to burn on a second house in the mountains :lol

well. the tesla is a all wheel drive so its safer to drive to mammoth in the snow. But the battery won't last long in the snow.

[BigKobeFan]

First of all most Tesla owners charge at home. I can only assume you are talking about their superchargers and the actual cost is much less than that at most chargers. I guess you live in California if you are seeing .50 pricing. The cost used to be a lot less but inflation has driven the prices up.

Whats there not to believe...It cost $36 cents for non-peak hours charging in the middle of the night. They call that super non-peak now on the edison bill.

i also see a lot of dumbasses in the super station charging their cars while trolling on their phones waiting for it to charge. maybe a lot of 10 tesla lined up by the shopping center.

[tontoz]

Whats there not to believe...It cost $36 cents for non-peak hours charging in the middle of the night. They call that super non-peak now on the edison bill.

i also see a lot of dumbasses in the super station charging their cars while trolling on their phones waiting for it to charge. maybe a lot of 10 tesla lined up by the shopping center.


The national average for home charging is less than half of that, and most Tesla owners charge at home.

Every Tesla owner knows that charging regularly at a supercharger causes damage to the battery. They typically use the superchargers just for long trips.


Based on national average energy cost of 15.42 cents per kWh and an added 15% to account for a home charger’s inefficiency, a Tesla will cost from $8.82 to $17.65 to charge from 0% to 100%. Here’s a breakdown based on different models:

Model 3 Standard Range Plus (50 kWh): $8.82
Model Y (75 kWh): $13.24
Model 3 Long Range/Model 3 Performance (82 kWh): $14.47
Model S (100 kWh): $17.65
Model X/Model X Plaid (100 kWh): $17.75

https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/car/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-a-tesla/

[Axe]

have you see those people not getting good mileage in cold weather when the batteries die out? also using the heater in an EV kills the battery.
This is what's a bit scary about EVs. And it's not recommended if you're also a fan of off-roading which includes crossing rivers.

[Long Duck Dong]

This is what's a bit scary about EVs. And it's not recommended if you're also a fan of off-roading which includes crossing rivers.

From what I understand electric trucks are even better going across deep waterways than combustion engines. The electric components are protected and isolated from chassis for safety. Most combustion trucks don't have all their circuitry protected plus the engine and exhaust can be flooded.

[Axe]

From what I understand electric trucks are even better going across deep waterways than combustion engines. The electric components are protected and isolated from chassis for safety. Most combustion trucks don't have all their circuitry protected plus the engine and exhaust can be flooded.
Really? I have yet to see EVs do some extreme off-roading irl. Maybe one in the cold arctic would convince me on this.

[tontoz]

Really? I have yet to see EVs do some extreme off-roading irl. Maybe one in the cold arctic would convince me on this.



The current models aren't designed for heavy off-roading. The cybertruck will be and Elon has said it could be used as a boat. :oldlol:

[BigKobeFan]

The national average for home charging is less than half of that, and most Tesla owners charge at home.

Every Tesla owner knows that charging regularly at a supercharger causes damage to the battery. They typically use the superchargers just for long trips.



https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/car/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-a-tesla/

where do you get these prices from. I can show you my electricty bill and it says

$0.47519 for mid peak
$0.35868 for off peak
$0.32529 for super off peak.

Don't know where you got those prices from. But nevertheless, when more cars become ev and require charging, i guarantee you the electricity costs will increase.

[Axe]

The current models aren't designed for heavy off-roading. The cybertruck will be and Elon has said it could be used as a boat. :oldlol:
When i said EVs i meant the ones in general, uncle. Not just tesla specifically. And ofc it would be a truck or suv for that purpose. ;)

[tontoz]

where do you get these prices from. I can show you my electricty bill and it says

$0.47519 for mid peak
$0.35868 for off peak
$0.32529 for super off peak.

Don't know where you got those prices from. But nevertheless, when more cars become ev and require charging, i guarantee you the electricity costs will increase.



I posted.the link lol. It is the national average.

[BigKobeFan]

I posted.the link lol. It is the national average.

tell that national average to my bill chief. I trust what my bill says over some online article.

same reason why i don't trust blade when he claims there's no inflation when i simply go to the supermarket and see the price difference. Trust me...its not 8%

[tontoz]

tell that national average to my bill chief. I trust what my bill says over some online article.



You aren't being billed the national average.

:facepalm

Even the most expensive states aren't paying what you claim to be paying.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230113-185422.jpg




https://www.statista.com/statistics/630090/states-with-the-average-electricity-price-for-the-residential-sector-in-the-us/

[BigKobeFan]

You aren't being billed the national average.

:facepalm

Even the most expensive states aren't paying what you claim to be paying.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230113-185422.jpg




https://www.statista.com/statistics/630090/states-with-the-average-electricity-price-for-the-residential-sector-in-the-us/

Because your links are fake. $0.26 cents my ass. You want to see my bill?

[tontoz]

Because your links are fake. $0.26 cents my ass. You want to see my bill?


I don't care that you are getting screwed on your bill. The average rates are easy to find with a routine google search. They aren't a secret.

There is a reason why there are 15,000 Uber drivers who are driving Teslas they rented from Hertz. They are saving a ton of money not having to buy gas

[BigKobeFan]

I don't care that you are getting screwed on your bill. The average rates are easy to find with a routine google search. They aren't a secret.

There is a reason why there are 15,000 Uber drivers who are driving Teslas they rented from Hertz. They are saving a ton of money not having to buy gas

No one uses a tesla to uber here chief

[tontoz]

No one uses a tesla to uber here chief


Here is another "fake" article for you:roll:

I guess they aren't getting screwed on their rates like you.



Uber drivers are liking the Teslas / The ride-hailing company announced over 15,000 drivers signed up to rent Teslas through its partnership with Hertz






https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/28/23185468/uber-drivers-tesla-car-rentals-through-hertz-growth

[Axe]

Uncle prolly has a tesla. Would like to ride shotgun on it. :D

[BigKobeFan]

Here is another "fake" article for you:roll:

I guess they aren't getting screwed on their rates like you.







https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/28/23185468/uber-drivers-tesla-car-rentals-through-hertz-growth

Thats why i wrote the word here chief

Its obvious you dont live in this world and just get all the facts by reading opinion pieces and article. Step out of the house once chief and u will see what its like.

[BigKobeFan]

I dont understand why u are arguing though. The thread title says. Whats ur view of the tesla. I gave you concrete numbers and facts of what i experience based on what i see, yet u argue it. So why dont u not ask a forum of their view if you are going to find ur opinion Off of articles

[tontoz]

I dont understand why u are arguing though. The thread title says. Whats ur view of the tesla. I gave you concrete numbers and facts of what i experience based on what i see, yet u argue it. So why dont u not ask a forum of their view if you are going to find ur opinion Off of articles


Where do you live? Your rates are literally double the national average.

And your original comments were a joke. Your very first comment was "Tesla sucks". You said Tesla "isn't viable" in places with snow ffs. In fact they are selling very well in places with bad winters. So you were flat out wrong.

And you talked about your rates as if they represent the norm. The .50 cent rate you are talking about actually is the high end of their supercharger rates. However you haven't provided any evidence of those rates being the norm anywhere in the country.

[tontoz]

Uncle prolly has a tesla. Would like to ride shotgun on it. :D


No I don't own a Tesla. Is it really necessary to call me uncle in every post referencing me? :facepalm

[Axe]

No I don't own a Tesla. Is it really necessary to call me uncle in every post referencing me? :facepalm
Yes. Jk. :roll:

Will try to tone it down next time.

[BigKobeFan]

No I don't own a Tesla. Is it really necessary to call me uncle in every post referencing me? :facepalm

Why are you talking about a tesla then?

[tontoz]

Why are you talking about a tesla then?



Because the topic is about Tesla lol.

[BigKobeFan]

Because the topic is about Tesla lol.

clown doesn't own a tesla and acts like he knows what he's talking about by reading up on articles on national averages instead of his locale

https://iili.io/HYXpZS1.jpg

[Long Duck Dong]

Really? I have yet to see EVs do some extreme off-roading irl. Maybe one in the cold arctic would convince me on this.

https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/08/Rivian-R1T-Water.jpg

[tontoz]

clown doesn't own a tesla and acts like he knows what he's talking about by reading up on articles on national averages instead of his locale

https://freeimage.host/i/HYXpZS1


I am not acting. I actually know what I am talking about.

You are a clueless buffoon saying things that are obviously wrong. And you obviously don't own a Tesla but that doesn't stop you from stating your opinions, which are comically uninformed.

So where in this country is .50 cents per kWh the typical rate? In your mom's basement?

[Axe]

https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/08/Rivian-R1T-Water.jpg
Interesting but i think we need to see those in the cold arctic so we can know something about their capabilities and limitations too.

[BigKobeFan]

I am not acting. I actually know what I am talking about.

You are a clueless buffoon saying things that are obviously wrong. And you obviously don't own a Tesla but that doesn't stop you from stating your opinions, which are comically uninformed.

So where in this country is .50 cents per kWh the typical rate? In your mom's basement?

you offered NOTHING. I even offered my edison bill. What do you have as evidence? 1. I don't own a tesla. 2. Online articles about national averages. **** outta here clown

[tontoz]

you offered NOTHING. I even offered my edison bill. What do you have as evidence? 1. I don't own a tesla. 2. Online articles about national averages. **** outta here clown



So where do you live slick? You can't even say where you live? No links to anything. Completely ignorant about high Tesla sales in cold climates.

Canada is lobbying Tesla right now to get a factory built there. Pretty strange since Teslas " aren't viable" in the cold.

You are arguing about energy cost when Teslas are literally the cheapest mass market cars in energy costs per mile.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/dumb.jpg

[BigKobeFan]

So where do you live slick? You can't even say where you live? No links to anything. Completely ignorant about high Tesla sales in cold climates.

Canada is lobbying Tesla right now to get a factory built there. Pretty strange since Teslas " aren't viable" in the cold.

You are arguing about energy cost when Teslas are literally the cheapest mass market cars in energy costs per mile.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/dumb.jpg

It says right on the bill u ****ing idiot. No wonder u are a ****ing idiot

[tontoz]

It says right on the bill u ****ing idiot. No wonder u are a ****ing idiot


You never posted your bill dumbass so how am I supposed to know where you live?

Looks like I was right the first time, your mom's basement.

[Charlie Sheen]

clown doesn't own a tesla and acts like he knows what he's talking about by reading up on articles on national averages instead of his locale

https://iili.io/HYXpZS1.jpg

bkf posted a socal edison bill in this post.

[diamenz]

:roll: :hammerhead: :roll:

[tontoz]

bkf posted a socal edison bill in this post.

Good catch. He didn't mention it so I scrolled right past it figuring it was just another ad..

The key issue is what he blacked out, his usage. My guess is that he is being charged above his normal rates due to high usage.

[tontoz]

Sure enough straight from the Edison website for socal, base rate .31 per kwh


:roll:

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-Residential-Rate-Plan

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230113-222651.jpg

[Jasper]

have you see those people not getting good mileage in cold weather when the batteries die out? also using the heater in an EV kills the battery.

spoken from a CA person that knows everything

[Jasper]

Telsa is just the start. I was some what surprised at the 2022 total sales ... that is impressive in anyone's eyes.

I like his vision he has , and I love his space program. (ONCE AGAIN THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING)

[BigKobeFan]

Sure enough straight from the Edison website for socal, base rate .31 per kwh


:roll:

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-Residential-Rate-Plan

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230113-222651.jpg

Ok. let me call edison and tell them my bill doesn't reflect what their website says. Lets see how far i get with that you ****ing idiot.

[BigKobeFan]

Good catch. He didn't mention it so I scrolled right past it figuring it was just another ad..

The key issue is what he blacked out, his usage. My guess is that he is being charged above his normal rates due to high usage.

what i redacted is my name and address u ****ing idiot.

My usage is right on the bill you ****ing idiot. 511 kwh.

i can tell you never read a utility bill otherwise you could have figured it out. So who pays your bills? your mom or your dad?

[tontoz]

what i redacted is my name and address u ****ing idiot.

My usage is right on the bill you ****ing idiot. 511 kwh.

i can tell you never read a utility bill otherwise you could have figured it out. So who pays your bills? your mom or your dad?


First of all you blacked out the energy usage on the bottom right of your screen print. Secondly I haven't had a paper energy bill in years. My bill is paid automatically each month and I never even look at the emailed bills.

Most importantly your base rate is .31 per kWh per the Edison socal website so you were talking out of your ass all along. .31 is admittedly high but the extra .16 is a you problem. Your usage rate must be ridiculously high since it has to be over 400% of your allocation to get to .50.

If you plan on staying there long term you should look into solar which I hear is pretty cheap.

[BigKobeFan]

First of all you blacked out the energy usage on the bottom right of your screen print. Secondly I haven't had a paper energy bill in years. My bill is paid automatically each month and I never even look at the emailed bills.

Most importantly your base rate is .31 per kWh per the Edison socal website so you were talking out of your ass all along. .31 is admittedly high but the extra .16 is a you problem. Your usage rate must be ridiculously high since it has to be over 400% of your allocation to get to .50.

If you plan on staying there long term you should look into solar which I hear is pretty cheap.

Quit assuming. That was my account number on the bottom idiot. My energy usage is right on the middle of the page

31 cent base rate, not including grid fee, taxes, miscellaneous fees. Also there are different rates at differnet times. I already showed you the rates per different peak hours. If you dont know how to read it. That is on you

Man u are dense

[tontoz]

Quit assuming. That was my account number on the bottom idiot. My energy usage is right on the middle of the page

31 cent base rate, not including grid fee, taxes, miscellaneous fees. Also there are different rates at differnet times. I already showed you the rates per different peak hours. If you dont know how to read it. That is on you

Man u are dense


So you don't understand your own bill? Not surprised. :oldlol:

Fees are separate from the rate. Per the Edison website tier 1base rate is .31. if you exceed your allocation by 100-400% the rate increases to .40 which is tier 2. if you exceed by over 400% then you are charged .50 which is considered high usage. Hope that helps. Obviously off peak hours will be less.




To encourage conservation, the state has required that a High Usage Charge be added to the Standard Residential Rate Plan as of January 1, 2017, as part of the residential rate structure adopted by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC). This charge applies to residential customers whose monthly energy usage exceeds 400%* of their baseline allowance, which is significantly higher than the typical house uses.

[BigKobeFan]

:roll: :hammerhead: :roll:


So you don't understand your own bill? Not surprised. :oldlol:

Fees are separate from the rate. Per the Edison website tier 1base rate is .31. if you exceed your allocation by 100-400% the rate increases to .40 which is tier 2. if you exceed by over 400% then you are charged .50 which is considered high usage. Hope that helps. Obviously off peak hours will be less.

Dont talk anymore. You are making yourself look dumber with each post.

If you are calculating costs for charging a car, you must include fees too because its part of the total cost to run something

Just dont talk anymore. We all can tell you never paid a bill in your life

[tontoz]

Dont talk anymore. You are making yourself look dumber with each post.

If you are calculating costs for charging a car, you must include fees too because its part of the total cost to run something

Just dont talk anymore. We all can tell you never paid a bill in your life


This from the guy who doesn't understand his own rate. :roll:

The reason your rate is jacked up is because your usage is 400% higher than your allocation. Obviously other people in Cali don't have the same problem because EV sales are up huge even though overall car sales are down.

https://insideevs.com/news/620854/california-plugin-car-sales-2022q3/

You also have to take another L for getting a paper bill in 2023. I don't get paper bills for anything ffs.

So do you believe the earth is flat because it looks flat when you walk outside?

:roll:

[bladefd]

Waiting for the $25k Tesla. Maybe in a year or 2

[BigKobeFan]

100 kwh for a month? Everyone in the damn world would go over. You computer takes 350 watts per hour dumbass

Charging the tesla 5 times a mo th will take u to the 4th tier. Thats how stupid you are

You trolling and reading pointless articles would run up your bill

And what bills do you have? You obviously never seen a utility bill

[tontoz]

100 kwh for a month? Everyone in the damn world would go over. You computer takes 350 watts per hour dumbass

Charging the tesla 5 times a mo th will take u to the 4th tier. Thats how stupid you are

You trolling and reading pointless articles would run up your bill

And what bills do you have? You obviously never seen a utility bill


You may be right, in which case you are getting price gouged. You can see for yourself on page 3 of your bill


How can I tell how much baseline allocation I receive each month? Your baseline allocation is provided on page 3 of your bill under the "Additional information" section.

You are at least partially correct. I haven't seen a utility bill in years. It's so cheap here in MD i take no notice of it and it's paid automatically. It's 2023 in case you didn't know. Paper bills are so 90s.

FYI EVs were roughly 20% of car sales in Cali last year.

[Axe]

Hopefully, insta-charge will also be realized for EVs someday. Until then i'm a bit skeptical about them.

[tontoz]

This is about SpaceX but it is instructive about how Elon can change course so quickly.



https://youtube.com/shorts/nS_W6prOjRM?feature=share

[bladefd]

Hopefully, insta-charge will also be realized for EVs someday. Until then i'm a bit skeptical about them.

Insta-charge? How much time is reasonable to you? I have never counted, but gas takes about 3 minutes to fill up and another minute to pay. If you go to Costco, about 10 minutes due to waiting in line for a few minutes.

[oldtimer28]

I dont understand why u are arguing though. The thread title says. Whats ur view of the tesla. I gave you concrete numbers and facts of what i experience based on what i see, yet u argue it. So why dont u not ask a forum of their view if you are going to find ur opinion Off of articles

Yes thank you. I appreciate your posts.

[Nanners]

The current models aren't designed for heavy off-roading. The cybertruck will be and Elon has said it could be used as a boat. :oldlol:

From what I have heard the Rivians and the new EV Hummer are both phenomenal off road

[Axe]

Insta-charge? How much time is reasonable to you? I have never counted, but gas takes about 3 minutes to fill up and another minute to pay. If you go to Costco, about 10 minutes due to waiting in line for a few minutes.
Oops i was wrong. Insta-charge is an exaggeration. What i actually meant was something closer to what you said. Similar to how long fuel is usually topped up if the car is going anywhere outside of a home.

[Nanners]

I am not acting. I actually know what I am talking about.

You are a clueless buffoon saying things that are obviously wrong. And you obviously don't own a Tesla but that doesn't stop you from stating your opinions, which are comically uninformed.

So where in this country is .50 cents per kWh the typical rate? In your mom's basement?

In the Portland area, most superchargers cost 22cents/kwh during off-hours and 44cents/kwh during peak hours... and its not like electricity is expensive around here, for my residential electricity I only pay ~6.3c/kwh.

I road tripped down through california over xmas break in my Tesla, and charging costs for the whole trip were like $300 - which is about what it would have cost to do the trip in an average gas powered sedan (like a civic/camry or whatever)... and the civic/camry would have been significantly faster since I wouldnt have been forced to stop for 20-30 minutes every ~2 hours

[tontoz]

In the Portland area, most superchargers cost 22cents/kwh during off-hours and 44cents/kwh during peak hours... and its not like electricity is expensive around here, for my residential electricity I only pay ~6.3c/kwh.

I road tripped down through california over xmas break in my Tesla, and charging costs for the whole trip were like $300 - which is about what it would have cost to do the trip in an average gas powered sedan (like a civic/camry or whatever)... and the civic/camry would have been significantly faster since I wouldnt have been forced to stop for 20-30 minutes every ~2 hours


Yeah long road trips are still a problem, but it's a much bigger problem for non-tesla EVs.

I am sure Bigkobefan will accuse you of lying about your 6.3c home rate. :lol

[Nanners]

Yeah long road trips are still a problem, but it's a much bigger problem for non-tesla EVs.

No kidding. I know someone who owns a Rivian and its a bad ass truck in many ways and a much nicer vehicle than my Tesla, but recharging his car at a public fast charger (if he can find one) takes about twice as long as mine (around 40-60m instead of 20-30m) and also costs two or three times as much... hes paid over $100 on a single fast charge before, I think my most expensive fast charge ever was about $25


I am sure Bigkobefan will accuse you of lying about your 6.3c home rate. :lol

Well in his defense, I was incorrect... apparently they raised it to 6.6c recently - https://portlandgeneral.com/about/info/pricing-plans

[tontoz]

:oldlol:

[tontoz]

I just looked at my rates for the first time ever. Not as low as Nanners but low enough not to pay attention.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230115-115537.jpg

[Nanners]

IMO the only viable selling point for EVs right now is their straight line performance. The idea that an electric car is any better for the environment than a combustion car is far from proven fact, if you actually care about the environment the best thing you can do is buy an old toyota/honda econobox... unlike the new EVs, mother nature already paid the environmental cost of these cars long ago... and even if these costs havent been paid, its almost always going to be far worse for the environment to buy and drive an entirely new Tesla than it would be to drive a used econo combustion vehicle instead.

[tontoz]

Not necessarily. Batteries last a long time and are recyclable. If they solve autonomy, which looks likely, then robotaxis will make car ownership optional. In theory one robotaxi can replace the equivalent of multiple cars. Right now thousands of Uber drivers are driving Teslas due to the savings not having to buy gas.

Economy cars aren't an option for work trucks or semis. Semis make up only 1% of traffic but cause 20% of emissions.

[Axe]

Yeah long road trips are still a problem, but it's a much bigger problem for non-tesla EVs.
One of my biggest concerns about them too, uncle. Makes me wonder if spare batteries can become useful but they'll also have to be recharged along the way after some prolonged use in those far trips.

[bladefd]

You might think buying an used gas car means the damage has already been done and over with, but it's not. Manufacturing portion of its life-cycle is not the only point it does damage to the environment. It's continuous damage as long as the car is in use. Cars in the past years had much lower miles per gallon compared to more recent cars (mix that w/ the fact that gas cars' mileage also get worse over time of usage). Repairs and maintenance (i.e. replacing oil regularly) also does damage to the environment.

If you buy say a Tesla right now and it's in use next 30yrs (regardless of who owner is down the road), it's going to be do less damage over its life-cycle to environment than buying an old car that might last a few years before you have to buy another used car. Tesla will last you through all that. Batteries can be reused (usually in energy storage facilities) and/or recycled. You need less maintenance and less repairs due to fewer moving parts relative to a gas car so that also lowers environmental impact. Over long-term, the small things add up. Electric usage for charging does damage to environment but less than burning gas (gas has to be collected, purified, transported, and then burned in inefficient ICE). Especially if you use solar panels to charge the Tesla. If not, commercial ICE for electricity are much more efficient than ICE in gas cars. Location also matters - only 20% of electricity burned in USA is from coal (natural gas is much cleaner than coal/gasoline).

[bladefd]

One of my biggest concerns about them too, uncle. Makes me wonder if spare batteries can become useful but they'll also have to be recharged along the way after some prolonged use in those far trips.

Tesla 3 has what? 300mile range? At 65mph, that is over 4 and half hours of driving before needing to charge. For traveling to work, store, most places, it's more than enough. I wouldn't recommend it for traveling cross-country or across multiple large states. I don't know exactly how much a supercharger recharges in say 10 minutes for cross-country travel, but it might be an option if you are willing to take a 10-minute break to supercharge every 3 hours.

There was an idea to quick-swap batteries at a battery-station, and it would be fast (like a minute or less). Tesla actually worked on it early on & tested it to some success but gave up on it for some reason. I don't recall why it was not pursued further. I believe it was more expensive to swap batteries than to use supercharger & to charge at home. I think NIO or another Chinese company was also working on it, but I don't know where they are at.

Battery swapping is better than superchargers everywhere IMO. Swapping would be faster than both filling gas and charging an EV at a supercharger. It would also be more environmental friendly because a battery station could use solar/wind power to recharge the batteries in hold. Battery stations don't need to recharge fast - they would be concerned with quantity not speed. The battery could still be rechargeable at home if you want to do it for very cheap (or free if you have solar panels).

[tontoz]

One reason battery swapping won't work is obvious. The primary constraint to ramping up EV production is.... batteries. For batter swapping to work you would need far more batteries than cars. Tesla has been battery constrained until recently and all other EV makers are battery constrained.

Batteries are the most expensive part of the car. Having an adequate supply of batteries all over the country would be an enormous expense.

[Jasper]

From what I have heard the Rivians and the new EV Hummer are both phenomenal off road

ford as well as chevy now have 1/2 ton pickups w/a range of over 300 miles.
Biden has passed a bill to align more charging stations along highways.

Batteries are a sticking point , but my research I have found shows that batteries can be reused (rebuilt)
(It is all a starting point)

I believe the objective is to have a minimal amount of vehicles on the road that burn diesel or gas and have pollutants around
electric energy plants , not wide spread , which would minimize co2 emissions.

which leads me to believe that some day more nuclear plants will be built.

[Nanners]

One reason battery swapping won't work is obvious. The primary constraint to ramping up EV production is.... batteries. For batter swapping to work you would need far more batteries than cars. Tesla has been battery constrained until recently and all other EV makers are battery constrained.

Batteries are the most expensive part of the car. Having an adequate supply of batteries all over the country would be an enormous expense.

Theres are many reasons why no company has attempted to produce a car with swappable batteries yet. In a Tesla, the batteries are not only insane expensive and constrained by supply problems, but depending on which model car you have the battery weighs anywhere from 1k-2k lbs... and regularly swapping enormous ~1500 pound batteries would take some serious machinery

[Nanners]

ford as well as chevy now have 1/2 ton pickups w/a range of over 300 miles.
Biden has passed a bill to align more charging stations along highways.

Batteries are a sticking point , but my research I have found shows that batteries can be reused (rebuilt)
(It is all a starting point)

I believe the objective is to have a minimal amount of vehicles on the road that burn diesel or gas and have pollutants around
electric energy plants , not wide spread , which would minimize co2 emissions.

which leads me to believe that some day more nuclear plants will be built.

batteries are definitely the bottleneck right now... the basic tech behind modern lithium batteries has not advanced in any meaningful way since the 1970s, and unless car manufacturers can figure out a way to produce a battery that holds more juice and charges faster, its going to be very difficult for electric cars to replace combustion cars.

[Axe]

Tesla 3 has what? 300mile range? At 65mph, that is over 4 and half hours of driving before needing to charge. For traveling to work, store, most places, it's more than enough. I wouldn't recommend it for traveling cross-country or across multiple large states. I don't know exactly how much a supercharger recharges in say 10 minutes for cross-country travel, but it might be an option if you are willing to take a 10-minute break to supercharge every 3 hours.

There was an idea to quick-swap batteries at a battery-station, and it would be fast (like a minute or less). Tesla actually worked on it early on & tested it to some success but gave up on it for some reason. I don't recall why it was not pursued further. I believe it was more expensive to swap batteries than to use supercharger & to charge at home. I think NIO or another Chinese company was also working on it, but I don't know where they are at.

Battery swapping is better than superchargers everywhere IMO. Swapping would be faster than both filling gas and charging an EV at a supercharger. It would also be more environmental friendly because a battery station could use solar/wind power to recharge the batteries in hold. Battery stations don't need to recharge fast - they would be concerned with quantity not speed. The battery could still be rechargeable at home if you want to do it for very cheap (or free if you have solar panels).
Yes, it wouldn't be a problem around town. But still don't know if it can last in extreme and worst traffics tho. Otoh, you're right about the solar panels. I think they will modify automobiles to have their windows be able to act like one (especially windshields front and back) someday, which will be useful while they're on the road. However, it might be like using a laptop or gadget while it's charging; it may heat up and decrease the life of the battery. I forgot to bring up that part too, how the life of the batteries may decrease over time and lithium ones are deadly if they catch on fire which will be hard to put out as well. I've seen a video of it in social media before but can't remember exactly where.

[Wardell Curry]

I do not view Tesla as an EV company. Obviously this is their income at the moment and perhaps I am ignorant, but they seem to be the clear leader in various machine autonomy, which should theoretically be their biggest money maker in the future, not vehicles.

[Jasper]

batteries are definitely the bottleneck right now... the basic tech behind modern lithium batteries has not advanced in any meaningful way since the 1970s, and unless car manufacturers can figure out a way to produce a battery that holds more juice and charges faster, its going to be very difficult for electric cars to replace combustion cars.

My plans this year was to put a solar array and tie it into a battery system.
I got derailed when an expert advised a battery system costing me $100k.

Charging systems for vehicles I have no issues with , even if it were to take 30 minutes to go another 300 miles.

[Chick Stern]

We are in the model A stage of e-vehicles.
Batteries will get smaller, lighter and more durable, charging stations will be plentiful.
Once fusion generation is realized, it’ll be a brand new day.
It’s the future, you might as well get on board.

[bladefd]

One reason battery swapping won't work is obvious. The primary constraint to ramping up EV production is.... batteries. For batter swapping to work you would need far more batteries than cars. Tesla has been battery constrained until recently and all other EV makers are battery constrained.

Batteries are the most expensive part of the car. Having an adequate supply of batteries all over the country would be an enormous expense.

That's true too. It would be more expensive. Perhaps in the future, it will be more viable when batteries become cheap. I recall reading that engineers are working on using sand for energy storage so pretty much a battery. Something like that will perhaps make battery swapping a reality.

[bladefd]

Theres are many reasons why no company has attempted to produce a car with swappable batteries yet. In a Tesla, the batteries are not only insane expensive and constrained by supply problems, but depending on which model car you have the battery weighs anywhere from 1k-2k lbs... and regularly swapping enormous ~1500 pound batteries would take some serious machinery

No company has attempted? Nio has. They have swappable batteries. Not sure how successful they have been or how much it costs, but they have been doing it in China.

I read further about tesla's attempt. They said it costs about $80 per battery swap, and supercharger would be much much cheaper. I hope they can make a charger in the near future that works even faster than a supercharger. That might be the alternative solution to swappable batteries.

[bladefd]

My plans this year was to put a solar array and tie it into a battery system.
I got derailed when an expert advised a battery system costing me $100k.

Charging systems for vehicles I have no issues with , even if it were to take 30 minutes to go another 300 miles.

What? 100k for a battery system?? Couldn't you just buy a couple of tesla's power walls?

[tontoz]

What? 100k for a battery system?? Couldn't you just buy a couple of tesla's power walls?


Tesla's powerwall costs $11.5k. The price per unit drops when ordering more than 1.

Interesting thing about the power wall is that it can sell energy to the grid when energy is expensive and then buy it back when it's cheap.

[Jasper]

What? 100k for a battery system?? Couldn't you just buy a couple of tesla's power walls?

I am in northern Wisc. 12/21st of the month I have 7 hours of light. Sun light according to the expert is 2 hours .. but that study was made in the 70's . Problem is in the past ,Wisc. would according to the study have 33% sunny days. (once again that study is back in the 70's) I am in pulp country (trees make paper , and paper mills are every where) with sand , which means we need rain, and our region has changed , because we have less cloudy days now . That is why I want to go solar. But like the last 7 days I have not seen the sun. That means the solar I would acquire would need to be stored for an indefinite period.
** I am condemn plating a change in my thinking and just put up solar panels and tie it into my 200amp panel and use what I can. Our summers we have 8 hours of darkness. (But as you can imagine our winters last all most 6 months)

[rawimpact]

My plans this year was to put a solar array and tie it into a battery system.
I got derailed when an expert advised a battery system costing me $100k.

Charging systems for vehicles I have no issues with , even if it were to take 30 minutes to go another 300 miles.

You must be special if you fell for 100k battery system to setup solar. You can literally tie the panels to the grid like everyone else.

Edit: yeah you stated the quote was this year too! wow

[Jasper]

You must be special if you fell for 100k battery system to setup solar. You can literally tie the panels to the grid like everyone else.

Edit: yeah you stated the quote was this year too! wow

24 volt batteries cost easily 10k.

tie into the grid would only help apx 6 months.
Its a pretty big decision to make.

[bladefd]

24 volt batteries cost easily 10k.

tie into the grid would only help apx 6 months.
Its a pretty big decision to make.

What do you mean tying to grid would only help for 6 months?

Have you looked into having a couple Tesla powerwalls? Would cost 18k total for 2 of them before any state/federal incentives.

[Jasper]

What do you mean tying to grid would only help for 6 months?

Have you looked into having a couple Tesla powerwalls? Would cost 18k total for 2 of them before any state/federal incentives.

dude - I am retired // money does not fall from the sky / Northern Wisc. has 6 months of winter

[bladefd]

dude - I am retired // money does not fall from the sky / Northern Wisc. has 6 months of winter

You do know that tying to the grid would help during winter months too? During the day, you would sell any excess electricity to your electric company and when sun goes down, you would buy your electricity from your electric company. Battery is not really necessary unless you are trying to go completely off the grid.

My family has solar and energy is still generated in winter months. Less than summer or spring/fall but still enough to power throughout the day. We have the benefit of SREC, which help pay off the solar loan (we have no battery though and still connected to the grid).

[Jasper]

You do know that tying to the grid would help during winter months too? During the day, you would sell any excess electricity to your electric company and when sun goes down, you would buy your electricity from your electric company. Battery is not really necessary unless you are trying to go completely off the grid.

My family has solar and energy is still generated in winter months. Less than summer or spring/fall but still enough to power throughout the day. We have the benefit of SREC, which help pay off the solar loan (we have no battery though and still connected to the grid).

where does your family live ?

[bladefd]

where does your family live ?

Bit lower on the line of latitude than you in Oregon. We do get a little bit lighter winter but not by much. It's all about how much sunlight you get.

[KNOW1EDGE]

I think the tesla vehicles are cool and if I had the money to waste on a new car Id consider a tesla.

I think Elon is a unique character. On one hand he seems brilliant and on the other he’s lex luthor. I don’t want a chip in my brain and I don’t want to live on Mars.

[Jasper]

Bit lower on the line of latitude than you in Oregon. We do get a little bit lighter winter but not by much. It's all about how much sunlight you get.


for sure ... how much snow there ??

we are at over 55" right now / Yesterday got 9.
laugh as we all do here , but we had a sunny day ---(first in about 10 days)