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View Full Version : How good was Rajon Rondo is his prime?



Im Still Ballin
01-14-2023, 08:31 PM
Title.

It seems in he was considered a top 15 guy in his prime, peaking as high as top 10 for some.

Accolades

- NBA Champion (2008)
- 4x All-Star
- 1x All-NBA 3rd Team
- 2x All-NBA Defensive 1st Team
- 2x All-NBA Defensive 2nd Team

2009-2013 Stats:

(Regular Season)

- 12.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 10.2 apg, 2.1 spg, 0.1 bpg, 3.2 topg
- 48.7% FG, 24.3% 3PT, 50.8% 2PT, 49.6% eFG, 61.7% FT, 51.9% TS
- +3.1 BPM

(Playoffs 2009-2012)

- 16.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 10.2 apg, 2.1 spg, 0.1 bpg, 3.3 topg
- 45.6% FG, 28.4% 3PT, 47.1% 2PT, 46.8% eFG, 63.6% FT, 49.6% TS
- +4.4 BPM

- 17th best player in 2010 (SLAM Magazine)
- 15th best player in 2011 (SLAM Magazine)
- 8th best player in 2012 (SLAM Magazine)
- 12th best player in 2012 (ESPN)

Rondo's best playoff series:

2012 ECF vs Miami
- 20.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 11.3 apg, 1.9 spg, 3.8 topg
- 48.8% FG, 30% 3PT, 70% FT, 50% eFG, 52.8% TS

2010 ESCF vs Cleveland
- 20.7 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 11.8 apg, 1.8 spg, 3.6 topg
- 54.1% FG, 33.3% 3PT, 65.9% FT, 55.9% eFG, 59.4% TS

2009 EC1 vs Chicago
- 19.4 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 11.6 apg, 2.7 spg, 2.1 topg
- 45.4% FG, 44.4% 3PT, 64.9% FT, 47.1% eFG, 50.3% TS

2011 EC1 vs New York
- 19.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 12.0 apg, 1.0 spg, 3.7 topg
- 50% FG, 53.8% FT, 50% eFG, 51.7% TS

2012 ECSF vs Atlanta
- 16.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 11.8 apg, 3.4 spg, 3.6 topg
- 46.3% FG, 50% 3PT, 55.6% FT, 48.2% eFG, 48.9% TS



I don’t personally know what Rajon Rondo comes from, but I do know that SLAMonline has him at No. 8 on this list, and that even that number is probably not high enough.

I mean, it’s hard to appraise Rondo’s game. It’s hard because of preconceived notions, and it’s even harder because his game isn’t evaluable by an eye-test, isn’t conventional by any standard.

The 6-2 point guard from Kentucky passes when you think he’s gonna shoot, shoots when you think he’s gonna pass, and does it all with a creative flourish and without any post-game explanation.

It’s fair to say that there is certainly no current player who compares to Rondo, and there might not have been another player with his makeup ever in the past, either.

Between his bouts of MVP-type brilliance, KD-like length, Deion-like timing, stop-and-go quickness, pass-first (and second and third) outlook, single-mindedness in getting where he wants to go and clunky J, Rondo made a new mold with his game… and broke it so no one could copy it.

Yes, statheads, a lot of his attributes aren’t quantifiable… but it’s all very real. Just ask the guys who play with him.

“Rajon’s amazing, period,” Kevin Garnett was quoted as saying after a game last season. “We talk about big things are coming—big things are here.”

Or ask NBA executives.

In the annual GM Survey, which was made public earlier this week, Rondo’s name appeared more times than any player not known by their surname alone.

NBA GMs, men paid vast sums to evaluate talent and build rosters, voted him the third-best point guard in the League, the third-best (in a four-way tie) perimeter defender, the third-fastest with the ball, the third-best (in a two-way tie) passer, the third-toughest (in a four-way tie; he’s the only point guard) player and the player with the 10th best basketball IQ. And all of this on heels of his eighth-placed finish in last season’s MVP voting.

Yes, Rajon Rondo is not a finished product. His jumper is still shaky, he needs to improve his percentage from the charity stripe, he passes up too many layups and at times he seems to idle his engine. But the 26-year-old is the real deal.

To be honest, I was on the wagon early. Maybe too early. I was a fan of his when he was at Oak Hill and Kentucky, let alone his earliest years in Boston. Ask my co-editors, friends, whomever, I just saw something in him (and was always blown away by his HUGE hands).

But, really, my faith in his potential for greatness was confirmed on three occasions in the past 18 months.

In May of 2011, in the Eastern Conference Semfinals, Rondo, in a gruesome looking play, dislocated his elbow. Yeah, that’s not amazing in the least. But the fact that the trainers popped it back into place and he returned for the start of the next quarter is.

The fact that he played the rest of that series with pretty much one hand is. The fact that, and maybe it only appeared this way to me, Miami seemed to bump and thump Rondo’s bad arm at every turn and he kept on keeping on is.

The second occasion occurred early last March, in the wake of Linsanity, when the New York Knicks visited the Celtics. On that Sunday afternoon, with Lin as the keystone of the national conversation, Rondo took over. In the OT win, Rondo finished with 18 points, 17 rebounds and 20 assists.

That game pretty much sums up everything Rondo offers: a touch of scoring, rebounds seemingly whenever Doc allows him to crash the boards and not worry about getting back, and, obviously, an uncanny ability to find open teammates (and, more than that, to get teammates open).

The third occasion occurred this past postseason, when Rajon Rondo took over the entire Eastern Conference Finals against the Miami Heat. Rajon Rondo’s play in that seven-game series was so outrageously good that it’s not wrong to say he was the only player in the series on the same sphere as LeBron James.

It’s not wrong, in fact, to say he’s the reason Boston was ever even in position to win the series. In Game 1, Rondo had 16 points, 9 rebounds and 7 assists. In Game 2, he had 44, 8 and 10. In Game 3, a win, he had 21, 6 and 10. And so on.

To top it all off though, and this is, to me, is what makes Rondo a top player, I contend that his great play in the 2012 ECF directly correlates to the way Miami went after him when he was injured in the 2011 ECSF.

Whatever the Heat did to take advantage of Rondo in that series, he took out on them 10-fold a year later. Some players have that MJ-ness in them; some don’t.

Yeah. When it comes to Rajon Rondo it’ll never be about the numbers (11.9 ppg, 11.7 apg, 4.8 rpg, 1.8 spg in ’11-12) or the (terse) quotes. It’ll always be about the game and its results. Just keep watching.


https://d1l5jyrrh5eluf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rajon_rondo_chart.jpg

Notable games:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ef9RB7KMXc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otKEE2gME74


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEKslZpVaHk

FultzNationRISE
01-14-2023, 08:43 PM
Always felt he was overrated honestly. Didnt really impress me at any point after the Big 3 run. Also had a terrible attitude, coaches hated him and he basically caused Ray Ray to dip.

If he doesnt get the benefit of starting his career with that group he probably doesnt wind up any better remembered than Ramon Sessions.

Thats my opinion.

Im Still Ballin
01-14-2023, 08:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OScInKWOKJo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Mueq6tHow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5yUqeGmXIM

Im Still Ballin
01-14-2023, 09:28 PM
Always felt he was overrated honestly. Didnt really impress me at any point after the Big 3 run. Also had a terrible attitude, coaches hated him and he basically caused Ray Ray to dip.

If he doesnt get the benefit of starting his career with that group he probably doesnt wind up any better remembered than Ramon Sessions.

Thats my opinion.

Fair assessment. We never really got to see prime Rondo without KG, Paul, and Ray for a considerable time. The ACL injury in 2013 pretty much changed him as a player. Wasn't nearly as athletic and defensively tenacious afterward. The plus side is that he played a lot of playoff games, which gives us a significant sample size to look at against strong competition.

Jasper
01-15-2023, 12:47 AM
Fair assessment. We never really got to see prime Rondo without KG, Paul, and Ray for a considerable time. The ACL injury in 2013 pretty much changed him as a player. Wasn't nearly as athletic and defensively tenacious afterward. The plus side is that he played a lot of playoff games, which gives us a significant sample size to look at against strong competition.

in his prime with the Celtics ... it was supposedly the big three to win the chip for Boston.
IF it wasn't for Rondo .. they would not have won the chip ---> he took over games(.)

BarberSchool
01-15-2023, 01:10 AM
Rondo was a very good defensive PG, due to a very long wingspan for such a small player, and very big hands.

Rondo was a great transition PG, and great transition passer.

Rondo was not a good or effective half court PG. He was always a horrible liability in half court offense, for more reasons than just terrible outside shooting.

But that said … Rondo was always an overrated Diva f@ggot, who caused locker room problems very often, whenever he wasn’t pre-occupied with trying to court the young possibly-DL dudes on the roster.

Everyone who genuinely rates him highly should have their PG opinions discredited forever. And word to the wise … whoever rates Rondo highly should be left/dared to shoot open j’s in pickup games.

Im Still Ballin
01-15-2023, 01:22 AM
Rondo was a very good defensive PG, due to a very long wingspan for such a small player, and very big hands.

Rondo was a great transition PG, and great transition passer.

Rondo was not a good or effective half court PG. He was always a horrible liability in half court offense, for more reasons than just terrible outside shooting.

But that said … Rondo was always an overrated Diva f@ggot, who caused locker room problems very often, whenever he wasn’t pre-occupied with trying to court the young possibly-DL dudes on the roster.

Everyone who genuinely rates him highly should have their PG opinions discredited forever. And word to the wise … whoever rates Rondo highly should be left/dared to shoot open j’s in pickup games.

Thanks for the insight, OG.

1987_Lakers
01-15-2023, 01:31 AM
Very good defensive PG with great playmaking skills. Lacked a jumper for most of his career which made him a liability at times, also padded his assist numbers, which is where the phrase "Rondo assist" came from. But overall a very good player, he was our 3rd best player during that 2020 playoff run then completely fell off the map after that. :lol

I also remember him almost beating KD in horse.

Im Still Ballin
01-15-2023, 01:47 AM
Very good defensive PG with great playmaking skills. Lacked a jumper for most of his career which made him a liability at times, also padded his assist numbers, which is where the phrase "Rondo assist" came from. But overall a very good player, he was our 3rd best player during that 2020 playoff run then completely fell off the map after that. :lol

I also remember him almost beating KD in horse.

He was great in the Bubble playoffs.

Wally450
01-15-2023, 01:48 AM
Very small stretch where he was the best PG in the league.

warriorfan
01-15-2023, 02:07 AM
reminds me a litttle of draymond. a basketball genius who can’t shoot. he still would manage to score more even though it was still inefficient. but he brought everything else to the table in an amount that made up for it. like draymond he could be a liability at times. in the finals vs lakers they started sagging off of him to the free throw like and it was really effective. he also is pretty crazy. he got into an argument with the big 3 and doc during a film session one time and told everyone that he carries the team and then broke the big screen tv in the film room in a dramatic meltdown. I wanna say it’s all in ray allen’s book. but he is definitely an interesting player with how polarizing he is with the different things he brings and doesn’t at the same time.

Axe
01-15-2023, 02:23 AM
Our man chris paul. Jk.

Anyway he's a unique PG. There seems to be a few that would match his defensive prowess for someone his size. He's a good playmaker as well and he isn't selfish unlike some other guards like kyrie irving.

Im Still Ballin
01-15-2023, 03:25 AM
reminds me a litttle of draymond. a basketball genius who can’t shoot. he still would manage to score more even though it was still inefficient. but he brought everything else to the table in an amount that made up for it. like draymond he could be a liability at times. in the finals vs lakers they started sagging off of him to the free throw like and it was really effective. he also is pretty crazy. he got into an argument with the big 3 and doc during a film session one time and told everyone that he carries the team and then broke the big screen tv in the film room in a dramatic meltdown. I wanna say it’s all in ray allen’s book. but he is definitely an interesting player with how polarizing he is with the different things he brings and doesn’t at the same time.

Sometimes a flawed player is more valuable than one with no weaknesses. It's all about the net value in the end. Strengths that outweigh the flaws.

Im Still Ballin
01-15-2023, 04:56 AM
Rajon appeared to improve the Celtics by about 6 wins based on available data. They were a talented team and he helped elevate them. It's harder to improve good teams than bad ones. There's a diminishing returns component. Going from 50 wins to 55 is harder than 30 wins to 35.


- Boston was 22-13 (51.5 win-pace) without Rondo from '07-'08 to '11-'12.

- Boston was 251-108 (57.3 win-pace) with Rondo from '07-'08 to '11-'12.

Lebron23
01-15-2023, 05:20 AM
He was like a Black John Stockton

SouBeachTalents
01-15-2023, 05:45 AM
He was like a Black John Stockton
Esp in regards to shooting.

Im Still Ballin
01-15-2023, 05:49 AM
Hard to think of an accurate player comparison. He comes from that Jason Kidd archetype of athletic inefficient playmakers who are great defenders. Except that Kidd was always a good free-throw shooter and decent 3pt shooter.

pandiani17
01-15-2023, 09:07 AM
Always felt he was overrated honestly. Didnt really impress me at any point after the Big 3 run. Also had a terrible attitude, coaches hated him and he basically caused Ray Ray to dip.

If he doesnt get the benefit of starting his career with that group he probably doesnt wind up any better remembered than Ramon Sessions.

Thats my opinion.

This. He played his rookie season in one of the worst teams in the league and nobody noticed him. I think the Big 3 elevated his status and after they all left his career went downhill fast, except for the year of the ring with the Lakers. Anyway, he could be a great PG in teams that already have 2-3 players to carry the scoring load.

Wally450
01-15-2023, 10:14 AM
This. He played his rookie season in one of the worst teams in the league and nobody noticed him. I think the Big 3 elevated his status and after they all left his career went downhill fast, except for the year of the ring with the Lakers. Anyway, he could be a great PG in teams that already have 2-3 players to carry the scoring load.

He averaged a career high 12 assists in one season with the Kings and was a vital piece on the Pelicans playoff team in 2018.

PeroAntic
01-15-2023, 10:51 AM
Prime Playoff Rondo was a point god. A total basketball savant but by the time he managed to adapt his game to his post injury athleticism he was already too old. Still, a winner through and through.

FultzNationRISE
01-15-2023, 11:03 AM
Rajon appeared to improve the Celtics by about 6 wins based on available data. They were a talented team and he helped elevate them. It's harder to improve good teams than bad ones. There's a diminishing returns component. Going from 50 wins to 55 is harder than 30 wins to 35.


Yeah but I think he was a perfect fit with the Big 3, because they didnt really need an elite playmaker or scorer. He could just play good defense and not make mistakes and didnt have to do a ton else.

I think if you make him for instance a core player of a rebuilding team, he does not end up having any kind of a memorable career. Again, he was also known as a loose cannon mentally.

I think warriorfan's comparison to Draymond is apt. If you get him on a team that can maximize his specific skills, youre gonna be in a very good spot, usually because that means youve already got the meat and potatoes on the team. Dray and Rondo are like really fancy deserts.

Dessert is great and it can be amazing, but it's hard to make direct comparisons with main courses.

Im Still Ballin
01-15-2023, 08:58 PM
Yeah but I think he was a perfect fit with the Big 3, because they didnt really need an elite playmaker or scorer. He could just play good defense and not make mistakes and didnt have to do a ton else.

I think if you make him for instance a core player of a rebuilding team, he does not end up having any kind of a memorable career. Again, he was also known as a loose cannon mentally.

I think warriorfan's comparison to Draymond is apt. If you get him on a team that can maximize his specific skills, youre gonna be in a very good spot, usually because that means youve already got the meat and potatoes on the team. Dray and Rondo are like really fancy deserts.

Dessert is great and it can be amazing, but it's hard to make direct comparisons with main courses.

A beautiful analogy.

Does it really matter if you can carry a bad team to a mediocre record? It's about winning at the end of the day. All championship teams have a sufficient level of talent. I appreciate players like Draymond and Rondo. They get the most out of talented players. Ceiling raisers.

Im Still Ballin
01-16-2023, 09:02 AM
He averaged a career high 12 assists in one season with the Kings and was a vital piece on the Pelicans playoff team in 2018.

He really unlocked that Pelicans team. I just watched all of his playoff highlights. It's a shame they didn't run it back with him there. He played 65 games and the team went 41-24 -- good for a 52 win pace. 4 wins better than where they finished. And the team played better without Cousins playing and with Mirotic starting.

They looked lost without him the next season. Rondo was able to get the ball to AD, Jrue, and Mirotic in their spots.

Gohan
01-16-2023, 10:50 AM
Always felt he was overrated honestly. Didnt really impress me at any point after the Big 3 run. Also had a terrible attitude, coaches hated him and he basically caused Ray Ray to dip.

If he doesnt get the benefit of starting his career with that group he probably doesnt wind up any better remembered than Ramon Sessions.

Thats my opinion.

Did you watch the 2020 series lakers vs houston? He single handidly won that series against houston with just his defense on harden. Youre underrating him bad if you dont ghink hes better than ramon sessions

Im Still Ballin
01-16-2023, 11:00 AM
New Orleans in 2017-2018

- With Rondo: 41-24 (52 win-pace)
- Without Rondo: 7-10 (33 win-pace)

Guess how many games they won the next season without Rondo? 33 wins.

:applause:

jayfan
01-16-2023, 11:19 AM
Prime Playoff Rondo was a point god. A total basketball savant but by the time he managed to adapt his game to his post injury athleticism he was already too old. Still, a winner through and through.

This.

jayfan
01-16-2023, 11:19 AM
He really unlocked that Pelicans team. I just watched all of his playoff highlights. It's a shame they didn't run it back with him there. He played 65 games and the team went 41-24 -- good for a 52 win pace. 4 wins better than where they finished. And the team played better without Cousins playing and with Mirotic starting.

They looked lost without him the next season. Rondo was able to get the ball to AD, Jrue, and Mirotic in their spots.

Correct.

FultzNationRISE
01-16-2023, 11:23 AM
Did you watch the 2020 series lakers vs houston? He single handidly won that series against houston with just his defense on harden. Youre underrating him bad if you dont ghink hes better than ramon sessions


Of course he's had some decent years and playoff series, my point is if he doesnt become famous from the Big 3 era, people likely would not remember him as some great player. Matthew Delavedova had a great finals locking down Steph in 2015, and nobody acts like he's some alltime guy. Trevor Ariza had a nice career as a role player, but nobody ever ranked him Top 8 in the league.

Ramon Sessions was a decent player that nobody still talks about. That's probably what Rondo would have been if not for Boston.

Im Still Ballin
01-16-2023, 09:52 PM
Correct.

Just some stats to add to his impact:

Rondo-Holiday-Moore-Mirotic-Davis five-man lineup
- 204 minutes played
- 114.6 ORTG
- 95.8 DRTG
- +18.9 net rating

Compare this to the other main lineup

Rondo-Holiday-Moore-Davis-Cousins five-man lineup
- 408 minutes played
- 107.7 ORTG
- 107.8 DRTG
- -0.1 net rating

It seems Cousins caused major problems for that unit.

iamgine
01-16-2023, 10:43 PM
Top 15 player. Around Deron Williams level.

LeGoat4Life
01-17-2023, 01:44 PM
Pretty good, he made Lebron his B****