The problem with debating Lebron Fans

[Walk on Water]

Is that they will waste too much time in points that don't matter that much. For instance if you say Jordan won 6 championships, they will say Lebron played in more finals or won on THREE teams. Then you make a counter point, and they'll give you like 5 or 6 points. If you respond to 3 of their points, they will make 5 points to your 3 points and all of a sudden this argument is so scattered and could go on forever.

With Jordan, his accomplishments are more obvious. With Lebron, you always have to make a lot of excuses and say things like he didn't have enough help, etc..

Have you noticed that? With Jordan his case is more self presenting. With Lebron, you have to argue in more of a round about way and it gets to the point where arguing each case becomes longer & more off topic and it just wastes lots of time.

[FultzNationRISE]

Is that they will waste too much time in points that don't matter that much. For instance if you say Jordan won 6 championships, they will say Lebron played in more finals. Then you make a counter point, and they'll give you like 5 or 6 points. If you respond to 3 of their points, they will make 5 points to your 3 points and all of a sudden this argument is so scattered and could go on forever.

With Jordan, his accomplishments are more obvious. With Lebron, you always have to make a lot of excuses and say things like he didn't have enough help, etc..

Have you noticed that? With Jordan his case is more self presenting. With Lebron, you have to argue in more of a round about way and it gets to the point where arguing each case becomes longer & more off topic and it just wastes lots of time.

That's not Michael Jordan's accomplishment, it's the Chicago Bulls' accomplishment.

If you claim Michael is the best player ever for being on that team, you have to also say their owner is the best owner ever. The GM is the best GM ever. The coach is the best coach ever. Because they all won 6 titles. And if all that is true, how hard could it be for a player to win in that circumstance? Is it really that impressive?

With Lebron it's easy. He won 10 conference chips, but they werent all with the same team. So you cant say everyone around him was equally "GOAT" at their role, because the Cavs GM wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Lakers coach wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Heat owner wasnt part of 10 conf championships etc.

MJ won 6 chips with the same group. So if he's GOAT player for winning six chips in his role, everyone in the organization was a GOAT. This isnt true for Lebron's titles. He won them on his own.

Also, he has more individual points, assists, and rebounds. Those arent team accomplishments. Lebron did that.


I hope this helped clear up some of your confusion.

[Walk on Water]

That's not Michael Jordan's accomplishment, it's the Chicago Bulls' accomplishment.

If you claim Michael is the best player ever for being on that team, you have to also say their owner is the best owner ever. The GM is the best GM ever. The coach is the best coach ever. Because they all won 6 titles. And if all that is true, how hard could it be for a player to win in that circumstance? Is it really that impressive?

With Lebron it's easy. He won 10 conference chips, but they werent all with the same team. So you cant say everyone around him was equally "GOAT" at their role, because the Cavs GM wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Lakers coach wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Heat owner wasnt part of 10 conf championships etc.

MJ won 6 chips with the same group. So if he's GOAT player for winning six chips in his role, everyone in the organization was a GOAT. This isnt true for Lebron's titles. He won them on his own.

Also, he has more individual points, assists, and rebounds. Those arent team accomplishments. Lebron did that.


I hope this helped clear up some of your confusion.



You just proved what I'm saying lol. All the Lebron Stans have to write long & unnecessary paragraphs to compensate. I'm not even gonna read half of this.

[FultzNationRISE]

You just proved what I'm saying lol. All the Lebron Stans have to write long & unnecessary paragraphs to compensate. I'm not even gonna read half of this.

It's okay, I can simplify:

10 > 6

Lebron > Mike

[LAL]

Facts




It's okay, I can simplify:

10 > 6

Lebron > Mike

One day (He's in his 20th healthy season right now) lebum's going to tie the late great Kobe in ring count.


:sleeping

[SouBeachTalents]

Facts





One day (He's in his 20th healthy season right now) lebum's going to tie the late great Kobe in ring count.


:sleeping
Well not everyone can win rings in such impressive fashion

https://pm1.narvii.com/6904/c95494888298cae5fbf064f414f6c63f05986450r1-706-1255v2_hq.jpg

[StrongLurk]

I agree with OP for once.

MJ's GOAT case is simply better than Lebron's, which is why Lebron stans need a lot more "excuses". The good thing for Lebron is that he can actually be debated against MJ...most other players, even the other members of the top 10, can't even be debated with MJ. I have Lebron at number 2 all time...and there is still a decent gap between him and MJ. Lebron is a hell of a lot closer to Kareem then MJ.

MJ wasn't just the GOAT when he retired, but he was the GOAT by a significant margin. If MJ didn't exist, then the GOAT debate would be amazing. But he still pretty easily has the title.

[Axe]

Are you ok op?

[highwhey]

Adderall

[Full Court]

The biggest probably with DEBATING Bronie fluffers is that they can't comprehend logic. And they stay stuck on the stupidest things.

You have 8ball who thinks career points is the sole criterion for GOAT.

You have 1987_Lakers who refuses to admit that Lebron has had a bunch of choke jobs.

You have Nb1 who tries countering every criticism of Lebron with his +/- stat.

You have Axe who's just a dingus.

And so on, and so on. It is kind of fun rankling their feathers though.

[Baller789]

When you have to continiously overexplain everything about Lebron, he already lost the case over Jordan.

[sdot_thadon]

I'd imagine if you were a true fan of the game you'd acknowledge the greatness of both. They both having amazing cases to be the goat and what's more impressive is their claims couldn't be anymore different. That's the beauty of the game, so many different aspects and faucets that can impact things from a single player. Appreciate them both, you likely won't ever see another of either.

[8Ball]

Is that they will waste too much time in points that don't matter that much. For instance if you say Jordan won 6 championships, they will say Lebron played in more finals or won on THREE teams. Then you make a counter point, and they'll give you like 5 or 6 points. If you respond to 3 of their points, they will make 5 points to your 3 points and all of a sudden this argument is so scattered and could go on forever.

With Jordan, his accomplishments are more obvious. With Lebron, you always have to make a lot of excuses and say things like he didn't have enough help, etc..

Have you noticed that? With Jordan his case is more self presenting. With Lebron, you have to argue in more of a round about way and it gets to the point where arguing each case becomes longer & more off topic and it just wastes lots of time.


I will tell you why its so frustrating for you.


Because you lose every single argument. You take idiotic positions and get ripped apart.


I am never frustrated arguing against Jordan stans.

[8Ball]

The biggest probably with DEBATING Bronie fluffers is that they can't comprehend logic. And they stay stuck on the stupidest things.

You have 8ball who thinks career points is the sole criterion for GOAT.

You have 1987_Lakers who refuses to admit that Lebron has had a bunch of choke jobs.

You have Nb1 who tries countering every criticism of Lebron with his +/- stat.

You have Axe who's just a dingus.

And so on, and so on. It is kind of fun rankling their feathers though.

You lose every single argument against all the posters you mentioned. Multiple times.

[8Ball]

I agree with OP for once.

MJ's GOAT case is simply better than Lebron's, which is why Lebron stans need a lot more "excuses". The good thing for Lebron is that he can actually be debated against MJ...most other players, even the other members of the top 10, can't even be debated with MJ. I have Lebron at number 2 all time...and there is still a decent gap between him and MJ. Lebron is a hell of a lot closer to Kareem then MJ.

MJ wasn't just the GOAT when he retired, but he was the GOAT by a significant margin. If MJ didn't exist, then the GOAT debate would be amazing. But he still pretty easily has the title.

Jordan isn't even a better basketball player than Bron.

He's literally worst at playing NBA basketball.

[8Ball]

That's not Michael Jordan's accomplishment, it's the Chicago Bulls' accomplishment.

If you claim Michael is the best player ever for being on that team, you have to also say their owner is the best owner ever. The GM is the best GM ever. The coach is the best coach ever. Because they all won 6 titles. And if all that is true, how hard could it be for a player to win in that circumstance? Is it really that impressive?

With Lebron it's easy. He won 10 conference chips, but they werent all with the same team. So you cant say everyone around him was equally "GOAT" at their role, because the Cavs GM wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Lakers coach wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Heat owner wasnt part of 10 conf championships etc.

MJ won 6 chips with the same group. So if he's GOAT player for winning six chips in his role, everyone in the organization was a GOAT. This isnt true for Lebron's titles. He won them on his own.

Also, he has more individual points, assists, and rebounds. Those arent team accomplishments. Lebron did that.


I hope this helped clear up some of your confusion.

Amen.

Jordan stans forget that its a team sport.

[Axe]

You lose every single argument against all the posters you mentioned. Multiple times.
It's funny how much he spends his time on this board whining about lebron and how his fans are the 'worst demographic in the world'. The freaking ugly reality is, he's just the biggest forum jizzrag who's completely shackled to them. Just like how his precious hero 1-9 dad killer is shackled to tree trunk pippen for his playoff success. Lack of self-awareness is so apparent on the insecure braindead turd but it's not really surprising anymore. :oldlol:

[8Ball]

It's funny how much he spends his time on this board whining about lebron and how his fans are the 'worst demographic in the world'. The freaking ugly reality is, he's just the biggest forum jizzrag who's completely shackled to them. Just like how his precious hero 1-9 dad killer is shackled to tree trunk pippen for his playoff success. Lack of self-awareness is so apparent on the insecure braindead turd but it's not really surprising anymore. :oldlol:

He's a drop out. There isn't much to look forward to.

[Full Court]

You lose every single argument against all the posters you mentioned. Multiple times.

:roll:

"M-m-m-m-maybe if I keep saying it, it will make it true."

Nope, sorry 8balless. No matter how many times you say it, it will be just as dumb of a take as the first time you said it.

Truth hurts.

:lebroncry:

[MrFonzworth]

:roll:

"M-m-m-m-maybe if I keep saying it, it will make it true."

Nope, sorry 8balless. No matter how many times you say it, it will be just as dumb of a take as the first time you said it.

Truth hurts.

:lebroncry:

:roll:

[Full Court]

That's not Michael Jordan's accomplishment, it's the Chicago Bulls' accomplishment.

If you claim Michael is the best player ever for being on that team, you have to also say their owner is the best owner ever. The GM is the best GM ever. The coach is the best coach ever. Because they all won 6 titles. And if all that is true, how hard could it be for a player to win in that circumstance? Is it really that impressive?

With Lebron it's easy. He won 10 conference chips, but they werent all with the same team. So you cant say everyone around him was equally "GOAT" at their role, because the Cavs GM wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Lakers coach wasnt part of 10 conf championships. The Heat owner wasnt part of 10 conf championships etc.

MJ won 6 chips with the same group. So if he's GOAT player for winning six chips in his role, everyone in the organization was a GOAT. This isnt true for Lebron's titles. He won them on his own.

Also, he has more individual points, assists, and rebounds. Those arent team accomplishments. Lebron did that.


I hope this helped clear up some of your confusion.

In typical Bronie fluffer logic, this guy is saying the Bulls couldn't have won a championship without Will Perdue. Or Cliff Levingston. :roll:

Nice try.

[8Ball]

:roll:

"M-m-m-m-maybe if I keep saying it, it will make it true."

Nope, sorry 8balless. No matter how many times you say it, it will be just as dumb of a take as the first time you said it.

Truth hurts.

:lebroncry:

"Jordan was empty stats" - Full Court

[Full Court]

"Jordan was empty stats" - Full Court

Correct. During his first few years he was. Unlike Bronie fluffers, I am unbiased and consistent.

[Baller789]

I'd imagine if you were a true fan of the game you'd acknowledge the greatness of both. They both having amazing cases to be the goat and what's more impressive is their claims couldn't be anymore different. That's the beauty of the game, so many different aspects and faucets that can impact things from a single player. Appreciate them both, you likely won't ever see another of either.

Thank you Miss Universe 2023, that was a great answer.

[┌∩┐(﹒︠益﹒︡)┌∩┐]

In the intellectual market place of ideas in basketball I've noticed LeBron fans usually come out on top. They don't lose debates its there bread and butter

[sdot_thadon]

Thank you Miss Universe 2023, that was a great answer.
They reveal themselves don't they?

[8Ball]

In the intellectual market place of ideas in basketball I've noticed LeBron fans usually come out on top. They don't lose debates its there bread and butter

Its hard to lose when we have overwhelming evidence to choose from.

[Full Court]

Its hard to lose when we have overwhelming evidence to choose from.

Overwhelming evidence like

4/10
22-33 finals record
-86
Most choke jobs in NBA history
2011 most epic choke job ever
2022 led a super team to the lottery.

:roll:

Truth just keeps on stinging.

[Baller789]

Its hard to lose when we have overwhelming evidence to choose from.

Or if they are so deep in delusion.

It's like saying Lizzo is unhealthy, unattractive and obese and she refuses to accept it.

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron was losing series with HCA to guys like Dwight Howard, Dirk Nowitzki, KG guys who never won anything before beating Lebron.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Overwhelming evidence like

4/10
22-33 finals record
-86
Most choke jobs in NBA history
2011 most epic choke job ever
2022 led a super team to the lottery.

:roll:

Truth just keeps on stinging.

Here's the real difference:
People compare Lebron to his peers and other players to point out flaws and deficiencies. Most are completely valid (i.e. team hopping, always had 2 other perennial all-stars, 0 game winners in the finals, lost way more in the finals than he won, etc.)

The only way to critique Jordan is to compare him to a "perfect" player. IE his 3 pt shooting was slightly worse than today's 3 pt average, he lost against the legendary 86 Celtics despite only playing 18 games that season with Orlando Woolridge & Quintin Dailey as #2 and #3 scoring options. Yeah, go look them up.

LBJ won't be the GOAT no matter what he does now. These are longevity stats. Jordan won 6 rings in 13.5 full seasons; LBJ had stacked teams and only won 4/20. I don't think he's cracked top 5 yet, nor will he, for me, ever. I don't have him over KAJ, Wilt, Magic, Shaq, Bird, Duncan or Kobe. All those guys were lightyears ahead of LBJ in skill sets. LBJ is just big and strong and can jump. It's why he shoots 35% or below outside of 4 feet away from the rim.

Next.

[1987_Lakers]

We will never see another player like LeBron. Dude is 38 and still has people melting down for how good he is.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Lebron was losing series with HCA to guys like Dwight Howard, Dirk Nowitzki, KG guys who never won anything before beating Lebron.

Also, even with stacked teams? LBJ lost 3 series to Curry in the finals out of 4, and lost 2 out of 3 times to the Spurs (plus that 2014 loss Duncan was waaaay past his prime) Would have lost all of them had Ray Allen not bailed him out. He's never 3 peated and has not made the playoffs 4 times (04/05/19/22) and gotten bounced in the first round. Hell he had a good enough team all those years to crack the top 8. Even in Jordan's age 39/40 years (2002/2003) he ended up in 10th place, good enough to make the play-in game with today's rules.

But yeah, all the stars have taken their turn on LBJ. Durant, Curry, KG, Dirk, Duncan, Kawhi, Yannis, Kobe, Klay, etc. all got rings during Lebron's watch.

Jordan's play stopped the following from getting rings: Barkley, Ewing, Miller, Malone, Stockton, Payton, Kemp, etc.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

We will never see another player like LeBron. Dude is 38 and still has people melting down for how good he is.

What's he good at other than being big and strong?
Elite handles? No, all time leader in turnovers.
Elite jumpshot? No, shoots under 40% outside of 4 feet.
Elite 3 pointer? No, dead last in the league.
Elite passer? At times, but most of the people he passes do have done all the work
Elite defender? Dude doesn't cross 1/2 court half the time
Elite free throw shooter? No, and gets very bad in late games.
Elite teammate? You do see his body language for the last few years, right?
Elite in the finals? 0 for 8 in game tying or from behind shooting in 10 finals series. Never hit a finals game winner, ever.
Elite statpadder? You bet.

He's elite at being big and strong and taking PEDs, and having ESPN pump him up for the last decade.

[1987_Lakers]

Also, even with stacked teams? LBJ lost 3 series to Curry in the finals out of 4, and lost 2 out of 3 times to the Spurs (plus that 2014 loss Duncan was waaaay past his prime) Would have lost all of them had Ray Allen not bailed him out. He's never 3 peated and has not made the playoffs 4 times (04/05/19/22) and gotten bounced in the first round. Hell he had a good enough team all those years to crack the top 8. Even in Jordan's age 39/40 years (2002/2003) he ended up in 10th place, good enough to make the play-in game with today's rules.

But yeah, all the stars have taken their turn on LBJ. Durant, Curry, KG, Dirk, Duncan, Kawhi, Yannis, Kobe, Klay, etc. all got rings during Lebron's watch.

Jordan's play stopped the following from getting rings: Barkley, Ewing, Miller, Malone, Stockton, Payton, Kemp, etc.

Gonna ignore LeBron had nobody with him in 2007 & 2015? Or how Curry had KD in 2017 & 2018?

This is the problem with you haters, you shit on LeBron for team hopping and point out how he didn't win enough chips, but completely ignore the whole context.

[SouBeachTalents]

Also, even with stacked teams? LBJ lost 3 series to Curry in the finals out of 4, and lost 2 out of 3 times to the Spurs (plus that 2014 loss Duncan was waaaay past his prime) Would have lost all of them had Ray Allen not bailed him out. He's never 3 peated and has not made the playoffs 4 times (04/05/19/22) and gotten bounced in the first round. Hell he had a good enough team all those years to crack the top 8. Even in Jordan's age 39/40 years (2002/2003) he ended up in 10th place, good enough to make the play-in game with today's rules.

But yeah, all the stars have taken their turn on LBJ. Durant, Curry, KG, Dirk, Duncan, Kawhi, Yannis, Kobe, Klay, etc. all got rings during Lebron's watch.

Jordan's play stopped the following from getting rings: Barkley, Ewing, Miller, Malone, Stockton, Payton, Kemp, etc.
Well when we start calling the '07, '15 & '18 Cavs stacked teams, that's when you know you're dealing with a person who's completely full of shit :lol

And in regards to your last point, look at the names you're comparing you dumb fck :lol I would legitimately take KD, Curry, KG, Dirk, Duncan, Kawhi (when healthy) Giannis & Kobe over anybody you mentioned. And surprise surprise, even in the 2 years Jordan was gone/rusty from baseball, none of the guys you mentioned could still win a title. Hell, only one of them even made the Finals lol.

[1987_Lakers]

Shaq was swept 6 times.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Gonna ignore LeBron had nobody with him in 2007 & 2015? Or how Curry had KD in 2017 & 2018?

This is the problem with you haters, you shit on LeBron for team hopping and point out how he didn't win enough chips, but completely ignore the whole context.

You going to ignore that Lebron shot 5 full points under his season average in the 2007 sweep? 27.6 PPG in the regular season that ended up 22.0 PPG on 35% shooting? He shrank in the big lights. What did he have, 8 turnovers per game? Some of those games were decided by 2-3 pts. It was his first big shrinking violet moment.

Also don't gloss over the fact the 2015 Warriors didn't have KD, and he was up 2-1 in that series and shit the bed in game 4 at home. I'm 49 - saw all these games live. You're not talking to an 18 year old kid.
As good as he was in the first 3 games he was equally awful in 4,5,6, just like in 2010 vs Boston. Too many black marks on his resume to be considered top 5. Now I'm sure you follow ESPN and what they say to the letter, so I'm not expecting critical thinking from most of the kids on here.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Well when we start calling the '07, '15 & '18 Cavs stacked teams, that's when you know you're dealing with a person who's completely full of shit :lol

And in regards to your last point, look at the names you're comparing you dumb fck :lol I would legitimately take KD, Curry, KG, Dirk, Duncan, Kawhi (when healthy) Giannis & Kobe over anybody you mentioned. And surprise surprise, even in the 2 years Jordan was gone/rusty from baseball, none of the guys you mentioned could still win a title. Hell, only one of them even made the Finals lol.


I don't think you're old enough to remember how good the NY Knicks were in the 90s with Starks & Ewing, the late 90's Pacers with Miller, Jackson & the Davis boys, those 62-20 Jazz teams with the all-time assists & steals leader Stockton, how deep the 93 Suns were. I get it man you weren't around then, so only games you see in HD and today's current crop seem better than the dudes that actually played defense. I'll forgive you for not barely being alive back then and your recency bias. You're the dumb fk and another LESPN homer.

[1987_Lakers]

Also don't gloss over the fact the 2015 Warriors didn't have KD, and he was up 2-1 in that series and shit the bed in game 4 at home. I'm 49 - saw all these games live. You're not talking to an 18 year old kid.
As good as he was in the first 3 games he was equally awful in 4,5,6, just like in 2010 vs Boston. Too many black marks on his resume to be considered top 5. Now I'm sure you follow ESPN and what they say to the letter, so I'm not expecting critical thinking from most of the kids on here.

Bird also played like shit in his first Finals, he had a good team to bail him out. Nobody ever talks about it. Shaq got swept in his first Finals despite being favorites to win vs Houston, that to me is more embarassing.

The fact that he was able to win 2 games without Kyrie & Love was seen as an accomplishment. Dude was so "awful" that he still received Finals MVP votes on a losing team while Curry had none.

What's even more embarassing is Shaq getting swept 6 times.

[1987_Lakers]

I don't think you're old enough to remember how good the NY Knicks were in the 90s

They were great defensively, but pretty mediocre on offense. John Starks as your 2nd option?

LOL.

MJ's competition was a joke, dude would get slaughtered if he had to face the Warriors.

[j3lademaster]

Also, even with stacked teams? LBJ lost 3 series to Curry in the finals out of 4Lebron was the underdog for all 4 of those finals lol. the 3 losses were with: Dellevedova and TT as his 2nd and 3rd best players, and somehow still stole 2 games from the Warriors, and 17/18 years were against the most stacked team of all time. Not to mention Kyrie was gone in 2018 so Lebron's best help that year was who? Love who had 14/10 on 39% shooting in the playoffs? The Cav's 3rd best player that playoff run was either George Hill averaging a monstrous 9/2/2 on 45% shooting, or Kyle Korver with 8 ppg in the playoffs going 41% from 3. And he almost stole game 1 with perhaps the goat single finals game performance had the refs not blown an obvious KD charge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfpBxKjYLT8

Literally every commentator knew that was a charge.


lost 2 out of 3 times to the Spurs (plus that 2014 loss Duncan was waaaay past his prime) Would have lost all of them had Ray Allen not bailed him out. You realize this is like saying Shaq would have lost had Horry not bailed him out against the Kings right? I specifically used Shaq as an example for you, but there are a ton of other players. His first loss was at 22 years old, an age when most players are just figuring shit out and he had no business being in that finals in the first place; so shouldn't we give him credit for making it there rather than tear him down for losing?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Give him credit for just showing up in the finals in 07 and playing very poorly?
So let's get this straight, just so I understand. He had 4 full NBA seasons under his belt by then. 320+ games in the NBA. 03-04, 04-05, 05-06, 06-07.
He gets credit for 22 PPG on 35% shooting and getting swept, yet:

People say "1-9" for Jordan for losing in 85-88, his first 4 years in the league with NO ONE on his team. Orlando Woolridge. Gets shit on for playing 18 games in the 85-86 season, yet dropped 63 points in a losing effort to the 40-1 home Celtics that year. He didn't play from at all until March 86 that season.

You can't have it both ways. One played far above their average; one far below. These are facts; you can try to spin them however you want.

[1987_Lakers]

The person who can't have it both ways is yourself. Say Ray Allen bailed him out while ignoring Horry did the same for Shaq.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

The person who can't have it both ways is yourself. Say Ray Allen bailed him out while ignoring Horry did the same for Shaq.

I don't recall weighing in on the 2002 Lakers did I? Yes, Horry bailed them out in game 4, and the refs bailed the Lakers out in game 6. The biggest rigged game in the history of the NBA. So bad that politicians even send letters to Stern about the lopsided officiating.

I don't recall Shaq sitting around with his buddies saying he's the GOAT. But he's still a hell of a lot better than Lebron. At least that man 3 peated with 3 FMVP; a feat LeTARD hasn't done in 20 years. Bubble ring, bailout shots by Ray/Kyrie, and a strike shortened season win in 2012. That's it? In 20 years?

[1987_Lakers]

Give him credit for just showing up in the finals in 07 and playing very poorly?
So let's get this straight, just so I understand. He had 4 full NBA seasons under his belt by then. 320+ games in the NBA. 03-04, 04-05, 05-06, 06-07.
He gets credit for 22 PPG on 35% shooting and getting swept, yet:
The Cavs were not even supposed to be in the Finals, they beat a Detroit team that was heavy favorites in the ECF.

What's crazy to me is the two biggest Finals underdogs in the last 15 years were the 2007 & 2018 Cavs.

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-champs/

The biggest favorites that lost in the Finals in the last 20 years? 2004 Lakers with Shaq.

And you shit on LeBron for "underachieving"

[1987_Lakers]

I don't recall Shaq sitting around with his buddies saying he's the GOAT. But he's still a hell of a lot better than Lebron. At least that man 3 peated with 3 FMVP; a feat LeTARD hasn't done in 20 years. Bubble ring, bailout shots by Ray/Kyrie, and a strike shortened season win in 2012. That's it? In 20 years?

We all know Shaq is a sensitive baby who throws a tantrum when people don't recognize how good he was as a player. Look how obnoxious and egotistical he sounds on Inside the NBA when his playing career is discussed, yet you are upset about LeBron calling himself the GOAT.

I'm willing to bet Shaq lost more times as a favorite than LeBron did.

[j3lademaster]

I don't recall weighing in on the 2002 Lakers did I?


LBJ won't be the GOAT no matter what he does now. These are longevity stats. Jordan won 6 rings in 13.5 full seasons; LBJ had stacked teams and only won 4/20. I don't think he's cracked top 5 yet, nor will he, for me, ever. I don't have him over KAJ, Wilt, Magic, Shaq, Bird, Duncan or Kobe. All those guys were lightyears ahead of LBJ in skill sets. LBJ is just big and strong and can jump. It's why he shoots 35% or below outside of 4 feet away from the rim.

Next.

You literally brought these players into the discussion lol.

Kobe:

won his first ring averaging 15/5/4 on 37% shooting in the finals. Yes, he was hurt, but the point is that he had a squad where he can win with roleplayer contribution.

Averaged 25 on 41% shooting in the finals for his career

Bird:

averaged 15 on 42% shooting in the 81 finals, C's win in spite of this.

In 82 he averages 18 ppg shootign 43%, leading to his 63 win team getting upset.

upset again in 83 as the Bucks sweep his 56 win c's as he averages 19/20 ppg that series.

The closest thing you have to a better overall career than Lebron's is Michael Jordan, which is why most still have him as GOAT.

[1987_Lakers]

I don't recall weighing in on the 2002 Lakers did I? Yes, Horry bailed them out in game 4, and the refs bailed the Lakers out in game 6. The biggest rigged game in the history of the NBA. So bad that politicians even send letters to Stern about the lopsided officiating.

I don't recall Shaq sitting around with his buddies saying he's the GOAT. But he's still a hell of a lot better than Lebron. At least that man 3 peated with 3 FMVP; a feat LeTARD hasn't done in 20 years. Bubble ring, bailout shots by Ray/Kyrie, and a strike shortened season win in 2012. That's it? In 20 years?
You just said it was a rig. lol

[RRR3]

I’ve literally never seen someone who hates LeBron who isn’t a complete moron. I’ve seen people who underrate him who are smart but people who actually hate him are always dumb about basketball I swear.

[Bacchus]

If you go by stats John Stockton is the greatest point card ever. He is the all-time leader in assists and steals. Two of the 5 major stat categories. Certainly Stockton is not better than Magic Johnson

[SouBeachTalents]

You literally brought these players into the discussion lol.

Kobe:

won his first ring averaging 15/5/4 on 37% shooting in the finals. Yes, he was hurt, but the point is that he had a squad where he can win with roleplayer contribution.

Averaged 25 on 41% shooting in the finals for his career

Bird:

averaged 15 on 42% shooting in the 81 finals, C's win in spite of this.

In 82 he averages 18 ppg shootign 43%, leading to his 63 win team getting upset.

upset again in 83 as the Bucks sweep his 56 win c's as he averages 19/20 ppg that series.

The closest thing you have to a better overall career than Lebron's is Michael Jordan, which is why most still have him as GOAT.
Exactly, if you nitpicked to the ridiculous degree that he did, you could find faults with players virtually every season of their career, even title winning ones. It's just so ironic he holds LeBron to literally higher standards than anybody else, yet acts like he's barely top 10 :lol If we applied those same standards to the players he claimed were ranked higher than LeBron, there'd be an endless amount of criticisms that could be brought up.

[1987_Lakers]

I’ve literally never seen someone who hates LeBron who isn’t a complete moron. I’ve seen people who underrate him who are smart but people who actually hate him are always dumb about basketball I swear.

What's funny is I've seen that Shaq poster make well thought out and logical posts before when discussing other topics, but when it comes to LeBron, his dislike for him just overclouds his judgement.

[SouBeachTalents]

If you go by stats John Stockton is the greatest point card ever. He is the all-time leader in assists and steals. Two of the 5 major stat categories. Certainly Stockton is not better than Isiah Thomas
Stockton also isn't a 4x MVP/4x FMVP, so not the best analogy to use.

[j3lademaster]

Stockton also isn't a 4x MVP/4x FMVP, so not the best analogy to use.And if you want to ignore championships since that's a team accomplishment, Magic also has much better playoff apg, ppg, +/- etc... what was the case for Stockton again?

[ArbitraryWater]

The Cavs were not even supposed to be in the Finals, they beat a Detroit team that was heavy favorites in the ECF.

What's crazy to me is the two biggest Finals underdogs in the last 15 years were the 2007 & 2018 Cavs.

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-champs/

The biggest favorites that lost in the Finals in the last 20 years? 2004 Lakers with Shaq.

And you shit on LeBron for "underachieving"


first grade burns from this post

[8Ball]

The Cavs were not even supposed to be in the Finals, they beat a Detroit team that was heavy favorites in the ECF.

What's crazy to me is the two biggest Finals underdogs in the last 15 years were the 2007 & 2018 Cavs.

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-champs/

The biggest favorites that lost in the Finals in the last 20 years? 2004 Lakers with Shaq.

And you shit on LeBron for "underachieving"


A Shaq stan shitting on LeBron is odd to me.