LeBron is the greatest scorer + playmaker ever

[SaltyMeatballs]

Not saying he's the greatest pure scorer ever or the greatest pure playmaker ever. But if you combine scoring and playmaking, he's easily the best

Soon to be 1st all-time in scoring

4th all-time in assists

Just some normal king things

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/22/21/55/222155f5a393706ffebbd07c1754c992.jpg

[Proctor]

What would Smook say


:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Gonna end his career 1 in points and 2 in assists


Gtfoh good

[SaltyMeatballs]

What would Smook say


:lol

You got a crush on smook or something? You're one odd dude

[SaltyMeatballs]

Gonna end his career 1 in points and 2 in assists


Gtfoh good

3rd in assists. I think CP3 will be 2nd

[Proctor]

You got a crush on smook or something? You're one odd dude
Yes, I have a huge crush on you. Glad you figured it out. :whatever:

[SaltyMeatballs]

Yes, I have a huge crush on you. Glad you figured it out. :whatever:

That's sweet but im not smook

[Axe]

:cheers:

[Spurs m8]

Most turnovers IN HISTORY.

EVER.

STFU with your false narrative.
And look at all the help he's also played with.

Pathetic bronies

[ImKobe]

Jordan is better by that logic as he was so much better at scoring than Bran and could also average 6-8 assists a game and won a title averaging 31.1 ppg & 8.4 apg with just 2.5 TOV. Then you have Magic who could also average 25 ppg and get 40 when his team needed it but was a guarantee to get double-digit assists in his prime and ran the most exciting offense in NBA history.

[BallsOut]

Soon to be 1st all-time in scoring

4th all-time in assists


And 1st all-time turnovers

[StrongLurk]

Jordan is better by that logic as he was so much better at scoring than Bran and could also average 6-8 assists a game and won a title averaging 31.1 ppg & 8.4 apg with just 2.5 TOV. Then you have Magic who could also average 25 ppg and get 40 when his team needed it but was a guarantee to get double-digit assists in his prime and ran the most exciting offense in NBA history.

You can argue Jordan and Magic both against Lebron...but no one can say any of them are the CLEAR best playmaker of all time.

I wouldn't put Kobe up there with them since he's a slightly worse version of MJ...wouldn't put Bird up there either.

[r15mohd]

Jordan is better by that logic as he was so much better at scoring than Bran and could also average 6-8 assists a game and won a title averaging 31.1 ppg & 8.4 apg with just 2.5 TOV. Then you have Magic who could also average 25 ppg and get 40 when his team needed it but was a guarantee to get double-digit assists in his prime and ran the most exciting offense in NBA history.

keyword: could

Lebron did

[Full Court]

keyword: could

Lebron did

Jordan won 6 FMVPs and three peated twice.

Bronie could not.

[1987_Lakers]

Jordan is better by that logic as he was so much better at scoring than Bran and could also average 6-8 assists a game and won a title averaging 31.1 ppg & 8.4 apg with just 2.5 TOV. Then you have Magic who could also average 25 ppg and get 40 when his team needed it but was a guarantee to get double-digit assists in his prime and ran the most exciting offense in NBA history.

Dude uses one playoff run and tries to pass it off like MJ averaged that throughout his career. MJ was NEVER on LeBron's level as a passer.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan won 6 FMVPs and three peated twice.

Bronie could not.
He did double Wilt in FMVP's though.

[Full Court]

He did double Wilt in FMVP's though.

Yeah, he's pretty good. I have him top ten of all time.

[Round Mound]

He is good transition: scorer and passer but there are others better than Lebron as both scorers and passers.

[SouBeachTalents]

He is good transition: scorer and passer but there are others better than Lebron as both scorers and passers.
Like who.

[Round Mound]

Like who.

Don't remember you figure that out.

[SouBeachTalents]

Don't remember you figure that out.
I can't figure out these multiple players who are both better scorers and passers than LeBron, and apparently you can't either :lol

[RRR3]

He is good transition: scorer and passer but there are others better than Lebron as both scorers and passers.
The guy who is going to obliterate the scoring record is "just a good transition scorer" :oldlol: :facepalm

Nostalgia stans are braindead

[SaltyMeatballs]

He is good transition: scorer and passer but there are others better than Lebron as both scorers and passers.

Name one guy

[1987_Lakers]

He is good transition: scorer and passer but there are others better than Lebron as both scorers and passers.

Not really.

Bird is the only one who comes to mind who is close, but I believe LeBron was the better scorer of the two, especially in the playoffs.

[RRR3]

Not really.

Bird is the only one who comes to mind who is close, but I believe LeBron was the better scorer of the two, especially in the playoffs.
Bird has zero case over LeBron as a scorer, you''d have to think he was way better than LeBron at passing to make the argument.

[ShawkFactory]

Don't remember you figure that out.

With the total package of course Jordan and Magic are on that level.

Bird started transitions with rebounds and lighting quick passes to outlets but he didn’t score like the others.

[RRR3]

With the total package of course Jordan and Magic are on that level.

Bird started transitions with rebounds and lighting quick passes to outlets but he didn’t score like the others.
Bird scored quite a bit more than Magic.

[j3lademaster]

Like who.Peak Barkley, duh.

[Johnny32]

Jordan is better by that logic as he was so much better at scoring than Bran

based on absolutely nothing.

[HoopsNY]

Dude uses one playoff run and tries to pass it off like MJ averaged that throughout his career. MJ was NEVER on LeBron's level as a passer.

While I do agree that LeBron is the better passer, their playmaking skills are much closer. In addition, as the league adapts to more three point shooting, it became much easier to get assists, especially when LeBron assumed the PG role like he did in 2020.

RS LeBron '04-'14: 6.9 APG
PS LeBron '04-'14: 6.4 APG

RS LeBron '15-'23: 8.0 APG
PS LeBron '15-'23: 8.3 APG

There's obviously a big difference here in assist numbers. LeBron's first 10 years look at lot more like MJ's, particularly if we compare peaks.

RS LeBron '09-'14: 7.1 APG
PS LeBron '09-'14: 6.1 APG
FS LeBron '09-'14: 6.4 APG

RS MJ '88-'93: 6.2 APG
PS MJ '88-'93: 6.6 APG
FS MJ '88-'93: 7.9 APG

One might argue that LeBron's role was different in the Miami days, and I'd agree. It really is about roles. That is to say, if you put MJ in more of a facilitator role, then the end result is likely similar i.e., more assists. Furthermore, LeBron averaged 6.8 APG in the finals of '07, so it's all similar.

One might argue that LeBron was in his offensive peak in 2017 and 2018. I don't believe this to be the case. I just think he looked to pass more. For example, the league's pace was steadily increasing, yet 2017 was LeBron's 3rd lowest FGA per game in his 20 season career. And to no surprise, his three highest APG seasons have all come since 2015, namely 2017, 2018, and 2020 (when he played PG).

I do think LeBron's court vision is superior, but generally as a playmaker, I believe they were much more comparable and it's really recency bias that has people thinking LeBron is above and beyond.

[ArbitraryWater]

While I do agree that LeBron is the better passer, their playmaking skills are much closer. In addition, as the league adapts to more three point shooting, it became much easier to get assists, especially when LeBron assumed the PG role like he did in 2020.

RS LeBron '04-'14: 6.9 APG
PS LeBron '04-'14: 6.4 APG

RS LeBron '15-'23: 8.0 APG
PS LeBron '15-'23: 8.3 APG

There's obviously a big difference here in assist numbers. LeBron's first 10 years look at lot more like MJ's, particularly if we compare peaks.

RS LeBron '09-'14: 7.1 APG
PS LeBron '09-'14: 6.1 APG
FS LeBron '09-'14: 6.4 APG

RS MJ '88-'93: 6.2 APG
PS MJ '88-'93: 6.6 APG
FS MJ '88-'93: 7.9 APG

One might argue that LeBron's role was different in the Miami days, and I'd agree. It really is about roles. That is to say, if you put MJ in more of a facilitator role, then the end result is likely similar i.e., more assists. Furthermore, LeBron averaged 6.8 APG in the finals of '07, so it's all similar.

One might argue that LeBron was in his offensive peak in 2017 and 2018. I don't believe this to be the case. I just think he looked to pass more. For example, the league's pace was steadily increasing, yet 2017 was LeBron's 3rd lowest FGA per game in his 20 season career. And to no surprise, his three highest APG seasons have all come since 2015, namely 2017, 2018, and 2020 (when he played PG).

I do think LeBron's court vision is superior, but generally as a playmaker, I believe they were much more comparable and it's really recency bias that has people thinking LeBron is above and beyond.

?

he scored more than ever those 2 combined years

[HoopsNY]

?

he scored more than ever those 2 combined years

I was referring to the regular season. But you're not wrong about the postseason. Still, I think the offensive explosion we saw since 2015 contributes to it all.

[ArbitraryWater]

I was referring to the regular season. But you're not wrong about the postseason. Still, I think the offensive explosion we saw since 2015 contributes to it all.

No chance, man.

If you watch film of 2017 / 2018 eBron, he simply was a more fluent and better shooting version than he ever was before, and he still had all the spryness and agility. Much more of it than now.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrMmiqiBcos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKfi1-re0c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4fnnKF1Axg



same haf court aggression and much better shooting

[HoopsNY]

No chance, man.

If you watch film of 2017 / 2018 eBron, he simply was a more fluent and better shooting version than he ever was before, and he still had all the spryness and agility. Much more of it than now.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrMmiqiBcos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKfi1-re0c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4fnnKF1Axg



same haf court aggression and much better shooting

I'm not so sure about that. Compare say, 2012, 2013, and 2014 to 2017-2018...

LeBron '12-'14: 56% FG% | 39% 3P% | 76% FTH%
LeBron '17-'18: 55% FG% | 37% 3P% | 70% FTH%

Look at the numbers by distance from 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3P...

'12-'14: 44/40/39
'17-'18: 43/34/37

Seems he was better across the board earlier on in his career (peak years) than later on where the defensive intensity decreased and more shooting occurred.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not so sure about that. Compare say, 2012, 2013, and 2014 to 2017-2018...

LeBron '12-'14: 56% FG% | 39% 3P% | 76% FTH%
LeBron '17-'18: 55% FG% | 37% 3P% | 70% FTH%

Look at the numbers by distance from 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3P...

'12-'14: 44/40/39
'17-'18: 43/34/37

Seems he was better across the board earlier on in his career (peak years) than later on where the defensive intensity decreased and more shooting occurred.
Playoff wise though, LeBron legitimately couldn't shoot 3's throughout the 2012 title run, and was having an atrocious shooting series until Game 7 in 2013, with Pop literally having defenders sag off him daring him to shoot the entire Finals, a mostly effective strategy through 6 games. His shooting was unquestionably better in the 2017 & 2018 playoffs than it was those 2 years, though I understand the playoffs are obviously a smaller sample size, and the game became much more offensively friendly by 2017.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm not so sure about that. Compare say, 2012, 2013, and 2014 to 2017-2018...

LeBron '12-'14: 56% FG% | 39% 3P% | 76% FTH%
LeBron '17-'18: 55% FG% | 37% 3P% | 70% FTH%

Look at the numbers by distance from 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3P...

'12-'14: 44/40/39
'17-'18: 43/34/37

Seems he was better across the board earlier on in his career (peak years) than later on where the defensive intensity decreased and more shooting occurred.


LeBron barey took a 3 in 2012 in the reguar season and in the finals almost no shots outside of 5 feet, was unreliabe in 2013 against the Bulls and the Spurs.

Ony 2014 matches up shooting wise.

[8Ball]

Not saying he's the greatest pure scorer ever or the greatest pure playmaker ever. But if you combine scoring and playmaking, he's easily the best

Soon to be 1st all-time in scoring

4th all-time in assists

Just some normal king things

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/22/21/55/222155f5a393706ffebbd07c1754c992.jpg

Offensively, the best are:

1) LeBron
2) Luka
3) Jokic
4) Larry Bird

These players are elite at scoring and playmaking.

Honourable mention is James Harden.



If Luka took the time to unslob his body and become an elite athlete, he may be better than Bron offensively.

[bizil]

You could certainly say Bron has that crown. You GOTTA be legit a great scorer and great passer for your position. Some of these guys are score first. Some are pass first. Some guys like Bird seem to be LITERALLY neither score first or pass first. But for me, a solid top 10 would be: (no particular order)

Bron
Oscar
Magic
Bird
Isiah
MJ
Joker
Harden
Luka
Jerry West

I had to include MJ (ultimate score first assassin) because he PROVED he could average 30 PPG and 8 APG in a season. That's where MJ was taking his game. The evolution of Pip meant could focus more on scoring. And allow Pip (a pass first point forward redefining the SF spot) to be the to dime dropper for the Bulls.