LeBron: "I Feel Like I'm The Best Basketball Player That Ever Played The Game" :pimp:

[Keno]

https://i.gyazo.com/d1e80188b7ede9ca4d4c3267e3ac5162.png

LeGOAT speaking the truth just before becoming the all time leader scorer, alpha as ****

[Kblaze8855]

He isn’t.

[RRR3]

He isn’t.
Fuming.

[Kblaze8855]

Fuming.


Just once I wanna read an original comeback that suggest someone is upset. They can’t have all been used but all I read is a rotation of like…4.

[ImKobe]

He's not.

[And1AllDay]

He's not.

well i got me 7,631 reasons my friend. you good? :oldlol:

https://i.postimg.cc/j5xHFvqz/Le7631._Unbreakable.png

[SaltyMeatballs]

I ****ing love that confidence. Talk your talk King!! The GOAT in my eyes

[ImKobe]

well i got me 7,631 reasons my friend. you good? :oldlol:



Stat-padding in the weak EC doesn't make you the GOAT.

[SouBeachTalents]

Just once I wanna read an original comeback that suggest someone is upset. They can’t have all been used but all I read is a rotation of like…4.
Fuming.

[LeGoat4Life]

Best player to lead a superteam to another lottery year

[SaltyMeatballs]

Stat-padding in the weak EC doesn't make you the GOAT.

So you rather have him just chill back and play playoff basketball without putting his team in the best position to win?? Bronie crybabies are the stupidest group of people on this site

[Kblaze8855]

Fuming.

Apoplectic even.

[SouBeachTalents]

Apoplectic even.
But I would be curious, throwing aside resume/accolades/ranking, how many players in your opinion were better than LeBron at basketball? You can obv exempt having to mention Jordan.

[And1AllDay]

Stat-padding in the weak EC doesn't make you the GOAT.

dont talk about mikey jordan like that my boi :oldlol: :roll:

2ez

[Kblaze8855]

But I would be curious, throwing aside resume/accolades/ranking, how many players in your opinion were better than LeBron at basketball? You can obv exempt having to mention Jordan.

I would say, putting aside accolades and résumé the list gets longer actually. There isn’t much separation among the top wings I’ve ever seen.

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Late 80s to first three peat Jordan is the only wing who is notably above the other top ones far as people I’ve personally seen. When you throw out accolades you’re left with a much harder job finding differences. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant….the difference in how well any of them is gonna play in a random game in their primes is isn’t worth arguing over to me.

And the comparison to other positions is almost pointless to me. I’d take Hakeem or Duncan over Lebron for most basketball that’s been played but maybe not for the version being played today. But today has no more reason to be the league used in a hypothetical than any other.

If it’s an all time discussion I don’t feel a need to look through a lens of 2023. Too many variables like that in the end. I would take Shaq over Lebron in 2001. Not for 2022 though.

So it isn’t really as simple as this name or that one.

[GrayGoat]

I would say, putting aside accolades and résumé the list gets longer actually. There isn’t much separation among the top wings I’ve ever seen.

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Late 80s to first three peat Jordan is the only wing who is notably above the other top ones far as people I’ve personally seen. When you throw out accolades you’re left with a much harder job finding differences. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant….the difference in how well any of them is gonna play in a random game in their primes is isn’t worth arguing over to me.

And the comparison to other positions is almost pointless to me. I’d take Hakeem or Duncan over Lebron for most basketball that’s been played but maybe not for the version being played today. But today has no more reason to be the league used in a hypothetical than any other.

If it’s an all time discussion I don’t feel a need to look through a lens of 2023. Too many variables like that in the end. I would take Shaq over Lebron in 2001. Not for 2022 though.

So it isn’t really as simple as this name or that one.
Miami LeBron was better than Wade and mcgrady and it’s not debatable

[GrayGoat]

Listing players is great but you can’t even explain why.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I would say, putting aside accolades and résumé the list gets longer actually. There isn’t much separation among the top wings I’ve ever seen.

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Late 80s to first three peat Jordan is the only wing who is notably above the other top ones far as people I’ve personally seen. When you throw out accolades you’re left with a much harder job finding differences. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant….the difference in how well any of them is gonna play in a random game in their primes is isn’t worth arguing over to me.

And the comparison to other positions is almost pointless to me. I’d take Hakeem or Duncan over Lebron for most basketball that’s been played but maybe not for the version being played today. But today has no more reason to be the league used in a hypothetical than any other.

If it’s an all time discussion I don’t feel a need to look through a lens of 2023. Too many variables like that in the end. I would take Shaq over Lebron in 2001. Not for 2022 though.

So it isn’t really as simple as this name or that one.

:facepalm



Prime Wade never reached 2015-2018 LeBron level. Nobody has...

You're comparing lebron and young Wade and even that's a bogus comparison. Lebron was much better. Wade had a brief stint in 06 where people thought he was better after Dallas choked in the finals. Wade was never actually better and never finished higher in MVP.

You're literally lying. And fuming.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Miami LeBron was better than Wade and mcgrady and it’s not debatable

Not debatable at all

Kblaze actually doesn't know ball.

[tontoz]

Just once I wanna read an original comeback that suggest someone is upset. They can’t have all been used but all I read is a rotation of like…4.



RRR3 only uses 2, fuming or seething. Quite the wordsmith.

[SaltyMeatballs]

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Are you being serious? :roll::roll:

[Spurs m8]

The fact he has to say it, tells us everything we need to know

[RRR3]

RRR3 only uses 2, fuming or seething. Quite the wordsmith.
Isn’t it time for you to give curry another blowjob, old man?

[RRR3]

The fact he has to say it, tells us everything we need to know
LeBron ruined your life.

[RRR3]

Are you being serious? :roll::roll:
LeBron very easily won MVP over peak Wade :lol

The voting wasn’t close.

[j3lademaster]

The fact he has to say it, tells us everything we need to knowIf Lebron were saving you from a burning building, you'd push yourself off of him and burn to death just to deny him some humanitarian award.

[Kblaze8855]

Durant won mvp over Miami Lebron 119 to 6. That isn’t a basketball argument.

On the floor all these people are fairly similar.

[And1AllDay]

Durant won mvp over Miami Lebron 119 to 6. That isn’t a basketball argument.

On the floor all these people are fairly similar.

wrong

no one else passes, rebounds, plays defense and scores like bran does combined

wade has moments of brilliance scoring the ball like bran
duncan has moments of brilliance playing defense like bran
hakeem has moments of brilliance rebounding like bran
magic has moments of passing brilliant like bran

bran does it all tho so your dead wrong chico

[RRR3]

Durant won mvp over Miami Lebron 119 to 6. That isn’t a basketball argument.

On the floor all these people are fairly similar.
LeBron hasn’t tried 100% in the regular season since 2013 not surprising he never won another. Durant is absolutely not similar to LeBron that is probably false with impact data.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Durant won mvp over Miami Lebron 119 to 6. That isn’t a basketball argument.

On the floor all these people are fairly similar.

They're not fairly similar, that's the problem. LeBron was better at every facet of the game than both. He was smarter. He was more versatile and better on D. Better passer. Better scorer. The cognitive abilities from LeBron to Tmac are wildly different. Even from Wade to LeBron.


Fairly similar? Nobody has done what LeBron has from 2015-2018... the most complete basketball player ever. Proved it at the highest levels.


You don't know ball.

[Airupthere]

He also think that he needs to learn how to flop. This guy has a warped view of himself.

[AlternativeAcc.]

wrong

no one else passes, rebounds, plays defense and scores like bran does combined

wade has moments of brilliance scoring the ball like bran
duncan has moments of brilliance playing defense like bran
hakeem has moments of brilliance rebounding like bran
magic has moments of passing brilliant like bran

bran does it all tho so your dead wrong chico

LeBron by far the most complete player ever. He can be your defensive anchor (directing defense too), your main scorer, your main facilitator, your vocal leader, AND do it all of those things as well as anyone ever has.

Nobody comes to it. Ever.

[Airupthere]

The fact he has to say it, tells us everything we need to know

Because not a lot (if any) credible people say it. He's trying to pull his own chair up.

[PANTHALASSA]

I would say, putting aside accolades and résumé the list gets longer actually. There isn’t much separation among the top wings I’ve ever seen.

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Late 80s to first three peat Jordan is the only wing who is notably above the other top ones far as people I’ve personally seen. When you throw out accolades you’re left with a much harder job finding differences. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant….the difference in how well any of them is gonna play in a random game in their primes is isn’t worth arguing over to me.

And the comparison to other positions is almost pointless to me. I’d take Hakeem or Duncan over Lebron for most basketball that’s been played but maybe not for the version being played today. But today has no more reason to be the league used in a hypothetical than any other.

If it’s an all time discussion I don’t feel a need to look through a lens of 2023. Too many variables like that in the end. I would take Shaq over Lebron in 2001. Not for 2022 though.

So it isn’t really as simple as this name or that one.


COME GET THESE HANDS RIGHT NOW MUTHER****ER.

Right. ****ING. NOW.

[Kblaze8855]

LeBron hasn’t tried 100% in the regular season since 2013 not surprising he never won another. Durant is absolutely not similar to LeBron that is probably false with impact data.

And yet…put ‘em on the same floor? Neither is gonna consistently outplay the other.

Great players have always been way closer in real games than history would have us believe.

You put prime Jordan and prime Wade on the same floor it’s gonna be an absolute battle regardless of one being 15 spots ahead of the other in rankings.

The rankings don’t matter to a basketball game.

[tontoz]

Isn’t it time for you to give curry another blowjob, old man?


Seething

[RRR3]

Seething
You literally were just shitting on posts like this. How did you forget so quickly, pops? Dementia?

[ImKobe]

So you rather have him just chill back and play playoff basketball without putting his team in the best position to win?? Bronie crybabies are the stupidest group of people on this site

No, but I'm not the one using his numbers vs mostly mediocre teams as a GOAT argument.. Put KD or MJ or Kobe in his place and its the same result in the 2012-18 EC... Paul George was his toughest competition in that era. Most of the superstars/All-NBA players were out West. Most of his EC Playoff opponents had below-average offenses with no true superstar on the team.

[tontoz]

You literally were just shitting on posts like this. How did you forget so quickly, pops? Dementia?


It's called mocking :roll:

[BallsOut]

https://i.gyazo.com/d1e80188b7ede9ca4d4c3267e3ac5162.png

LeGOAT speaking the truth just before becoming the all time leader scorer, alpha as ****

Denial it ain’t just a river in Egypt

[Nilocon165]

COME GET THESE HANDS RIGHT NOW MUTHER****ER.

Right. ****ING. NOW.
Is this ISB lol

[bison]

I don’t agree with him, but I love the confidence.

Talk your talk king James! :lebronamazed:

[BallsOut]

He also think that he needs to learn how to flop. This guy has a warped view of himself.

Maybe one day he’ll make a documentary and come clean. Maybe he’ll admit how often he flopped, traveled, colluded with other superstars due to his insecurity. The last confession would be a good title.

[8Ball]

I would say, putting aside accolades and résumé the list gets longer actually. There isn’t much separation among the top wings I’ve ever seen.

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Late 80s to first three peat Jordan is the only wing who is notably above the other top ones far as people I’ve personally seen. When you throw out accolades you’re left with a much harder job finding differences. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant….the difference in how well any of them is gonna play in a random game in their primes is isn’t worth arguing over to me.

And the comparison to other positions is almost pointless to me. I’d take Hakeem or Duncan over Lebron for most basketball that’s been played but maybe not for the version being played today. But today has no more reason to be the league used in a hypothetical than any other.

If it’s an all time discussion I don’t feel a need to look through a lens of 2023. Too many variables like that in the end. I would take Shaq over Lebron in 2001. Not for 2022 though.

So it isn’t really as simple as this name or that one.

If you take 1 or 2 of the best years of Wade and Kobe you can match it with LeBron and maybe 1 year of McGrady. 1 or 2 max.

There's 17 years of elite LeBron play.

[SaltyMeatballs]

No, but I'm not the one using his numbers vs mostly mediocre teams as a GOAT argument.. Put KD or MJ or Kobe in his place and its the same result in the 2012-18 EC... Paul George was his toughest competition in that era. Most of the superstars/All-NBA players were out West. Most of his EC Playoff opponents had below-average offenses with no true superstar on the team.

You make it sound like he had control over the star balance in the East and the West. LeBron worked with what was given to him in terms of competition and he completely dominated the East for a whole decade. What do you expect him to do? Chill back and just not make the finals? Yeah, right :oldlol:

[BallsOut]

He also think that he needs to learn how to flop. This guy has a warped view of himself.

Bingo! He also thinks he was never a part of a superteam.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Kblaze8855]

If you take 1 or 2 of the best years of Wade and Kobe you can match it with LeBron and maybe 1 year of McGrady. 1 or 2 max.

There's 17 years of elite LeBron play.


Which is why he had a much better career. But 17 years can’t play a basketball game. Talking strictly basketball…you can only be as good as you are at any given time. People don’t rank players that way because it throws out the career aspect and that’s fine…but he asked me specifically about basketball ability.

Nobody is what they were their entire career rolled into one moment. You don’t have your 20 year old legs and 35 year old savvy at the same time. Why if you ask me about basketball only I talk primes. You want to talk “greatness” it’s another discussion. The greatest and the best are not the same thing.

[8Ball]

"Best basketball player that ever played the game" needs to be consistently at the top amongst all the all time greats for more than just 1-2 seasons, let alone 1 game for all the marbles.


Drop Ja Morant or Tatum or Anthony Davis in some all time great basketball game in another universe and they might cook those players for 50 points.

[Patrick Chewing]

"I feel like"


:roll:

[SaltyMeatballs]

If we're talking about strictly basketball talent and no accolades then you can dismiss the majority of the "greats" before the 80s. This era of basketball features the most talented group of guys ever. The shooting, skills, and athleticism beats all eras. Put DeRozan in the 90s and he'd easily be Jordan's best competition at SG

[AlternativeAcc.]

Which is why he had a much better career. But 17 years can’t play a basketball game. Talking strictly basketball…you can only be as good as you are at any given time. People don’t rank players that way because it throws out the career aspect and that’s fine…but he asked me specifically about basketball ability.

Nobody is what they were their entire career rolled into one moment. You don’t have your 20 year old legs and 35 year old savvy at the same time. Why if you ask me about basketball only I talk primes. You want to talk “greatness” it’s another discussion. The greatest and the best are not the same thing.

But 'prime lebron was noticeably superior to tmac or Wade ever were.

You haven't explained why those guys are on lebrons level.

Lebron accumulated experience and maintained elite athleticism into his 30s

How are those guys close? Young 30s lebron is on a whole different level.

[ArbitraryWater]

I would say, putting aside accolades and résumé the list gets longer actually. There isn’t much separation among the top wings I’ve ever seen.

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Late 80s to first three peat Jordan is the only wing who is notably above the other top ones far as people I’ve personally seen. When you throw out accolades you’re left with a much harder job finding differences. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant….the difference in how well any of them is gonna play in a random game in their primes is isn’t worth arguing over to me.

And the comparison to other positions is almost pointless to me. I’d take Hakeem or Duncan over Lebron for most basketball that’s been played but maybe not for the version being played today. But today has no more reason to be the league used in a hypothetical than any other.

If it’s an all time discussion I don’t feel a need to look through a lens of 2023. Too many variables like that in the end. I would take Shaq over Lebron in 2001. Not for 2022 though.

So it isn’t really as simple as this name or that one.

this is textbook saying whoe bunch of nothing

peak wade is one of the goat peaks, so what? and peak bron is sti better.

09 bron was with wade step for step and much better in the payoffs, so you can take the bron of that very year and hes even better...


stop the cap.

[SaltyMeatballs]

But 'prime lebron was noticeably superior to tmac or Wade ever were.

You haven't explained why those guys are on lebrons level.

Lebron accumulated experience and maintained elite athleticism into his 30s

How are those guys close? Young 30s lebron is on a whole different level.

They're not on LeBron's level and never were. There's levels to the elite category. Rookie LeBron played just as good as peak McGrady when they went head to head in christmas 2003. LeBron's ability was always there but his confidence and IQ were still developing

Now when we talk about basketball IQ, LeBron might be the smartest player ever. He plays chess on the court while everybody else plays checkers

[AlternativeAcc.]

They're not on LeBron's level and never were. There's levels to the elite category. Rookie LeBron played just as good as peak McGrady when they went head to head in christmas 2003. LeBron's ability was always there but his confidence and IQ were still developing

Now when we talk about basketball IQ, LeBron might be the smartest player ever. He plays chess on the court while everybody else plays checkers

I agree. I think 24 year old lebron was better than 24 year old tmac and Wade.

But lebron had durability and kept getting better for 10 straight years while maintaining elite athleticism. Those other guys didn't. They peaked at like 23 and 24 and never got better. Lebron did.. massively

He's essentially saying 24 year old Wade is on the same level as 30-33 year old lebron. Which is preposterous.

[nineiron]

He isn’t.

water is wet

[And1AllDay]

Not debatable at all

Kblaze actually doesn't know ball.

sad to say i have to agree...hes fallen down as of late with his bball takes

[nineiron]

Fuming.


Just once I wanna read an original comeback that suggest someone is upset. They can’t have all been used but all I read is a rotation of like…4.

what you need to do is start kicking all these bronies out of the forum. maybe we can get some intelligent convos going here

[And1AllDay]

what you need to do is start kicking all these bronies out of the forum. maybe we can get some intelligent convos going here

make me a burger you binch

[AlternativeAcc.]

sad to say i have to agree...hes fallen down as of late with his bball takes

This guy was recently saying it's no big deal to sucker punch someone in the back of the head.

I haven't read his old stuff but I'm not convinced he's ever had any good takes.

I dont doubt he has knowledge and experience, I just don't think he's all that bright. But he can name random players from the 70s and make long-winded posts that can be summarized in 2 sentences lol.

[Kblaze8855]

what you need to do is start kicking all these bronies out of the forum. maybe we can get some intelligent convos going here

If I banned people for Lebron related idiocy everyone from post 54 to 59 would be gone. You. Them. Like 5-6 others. My options are ignore all of you as best I can and pick a few reasonable people to read and respond to or let you all go. I certainly wouldn’t pick and choose. It’s two sides of the same coin.

I don’t generally read anything any of you have to say unless it’s repeated too many times for me to ignore.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Truth

[Manny98]

He isn’t.

It's debateble

[AlternativeAcc.]

If I banned people for Lebron related idiocy everyone from post 54 to 59 would be gone. You. Them. Like 5-6 others. My options are ignore all of you as best I can and pick a few reasonable people to read and respond to or let you all go. I certainly wouldn’t pick and choose. It’s two sides of the same coin.

I don’t generally read anything any of you have to say unless it’s repeated too many times for me to ignore.

^^

He reads everything and only responds when he thinks he can cherry pick something and win an argument.

He said 23 year old T-Mac was pretty much the same as any version of lebron, then never explained how or why. Because he knows its retarded. But he won't ever admit when he's wrong.

The mods on here are just intellectually lazy and dull.

[Kblaze8855]

this is textbook saying whoe bunch of nothing

peak wade is one of the goat peaks, so what? and peak bron is sti better.

09 bron was with wade step for step and much better in the payoffs, so you can take the bron of that very year and hes even better...


stop the cap.


No difference worth talking about. This year or that one things favor this guy or that guy. Wade went insane and powered his team to the title one year. Lebron had the better 07. Neither of them did anything to talk about in 08. They both lost for years. Lebron had better playoff numbers losing in 09 and Wade played great in losing to the Celtics with a bad team while Lebron looked human losing to the same team with a better lineup. Pretty similar 2011 with Wade having the better finals by a mile while Lebron was better vs the Bulls.

Wasnt much separating the two those years before Wade fell off. Whoever had a team that should be better…was generally better injuries aside.

Lebron wouldn’t have done anything that matters on Wades Heat and Wade likely loses the same times Lebron did.

Not a big enough difference to fight about. Kobe and Lebron fans spent years fighting for a crown while Wade played about as well as either of them. Who goes 1-2-3 just depends on the season.

[Kblaze8855]

^^

He reads everything and only responds when he thinks he can cherry pick something and win an argument.

He said 23 year old T-Mac was pretty much the same as any version of lebron, then never explained how or why. Because he knows its retarded. But he won't ever admit when he's wrong.

The mods on here are just intellectually lazy and dull.


I would say I can kind of glean the intent scrolling by. I kind of see small posts of someone like you as a picture, but don’t focus on the words. Nothing someone like you has to say is worth a slow scroll. It’s most accurate to say I don’t stop on your posts than to say I don’t read them I suppose. If short enough I might see enough of o get the point but I’m not slowing down to consider your words.

Youre like kids arguing in the next room. I hear the noise but I don’t focus on the specifics of the argument because it’s some bullshit I don’t need to be involved in. I think I see most of what I get from you in quotes while people I do read respond to you. If you must know how my ignoring of you works….that’s about it. Not an active ignoring just…I stumble over things you say. I wouldn’t seek them out.

[theman93]

Lebron is the only all-time great that feels the need to continuously proclaim this instead of letting his game and career speak for itself. Very insecure man.

[SaltyMeatballs]

I would say I can kind of glean the intent scrolling by. I kind of see small posts of someone like you as a picture, but don’t focus on the words. Nothing someone like you has to say is worth a slow scroll. It’s most accurate to say I don’t stop on your posts than to say I don’t read them I suppose. If short enough I might see enough of o get the point but I’m not slowing down to consider your words.

Youre like kids arguing in the next room. I hear the noise but I don’t focus on the speck is of the argument because it’s some bullshit I don’t need to be involved in. I think I see most of what I get from you in quotes while people I do read respond to you. If you must know how my ignoring of you works….that’s about it. Not an active ignoring just…I stumble over things you say. I wouldn’t seek them out.

Seems like you have a major superiority complex as you seem to dismiss anything that you don't find worth your time or attention. This leads me to suggest that you believe your opinions and thoughts are the only ones that matter and that others are not worth considering. Pretty ignorant tbh

[AlternativeAcc.]

I would say I can kind of glean the intent scrolling by. I kind of see small posts of someone like you as a picture, but don’t focus on the words. Nothing someone like you has to say is worth a slow scroll. It’s most accurate to say I don’t stop on your posts than to say I don’t read them I suppose. If short enough I might see enough of o get the point but I’m not slowing down to consider your words.

Youre like kids arguing in the next room. I hear the noise but I don’t focus on the speck is of the argument because it’s some bullshit I don’t need to be involved in. I think I see most of what I get from you in quotes while people I do read respond to you. If you must know how my ignoring of you works….that’s about it. Not an active ignoring just…I stumble over things you say. I wouldn’t seek them out.

Point proven, you literally just ignored everything basketball related and cherry-picked an idea to explain for 2 paragraphs how you're above reading certain posters. (Which is obviously just a desperate and weird lie to save face...but still a meaningless tangent used to deflect)

So predictable :oldlol:

Ironically enough tho what u stated is how most feel about you and your extremely long-winded and substance-less posts. Odd thing to cherry pick.

[Spurs m8]

I'm honestly embarrassed by his lack of self awareness and ego.

Bro, your career is a joke for a top 10 player....I've never seen so many blemishes in my life.

This guy is the result of surrounding yourself with clowns since your childhood days

I'm sure he'd be a lot more humble if he had a dad and some awareness

[AlternativeAcc.]

Seems like you have a major superiority complex as you seem to dismiss anything that you don't find worth your time or attention. This leads me to suggest that you believe your opinions and thoughts are the only ones that matter and that others are not worth considering. Pretty ignorant tbh

Guy has zero awareness.

He's not far off from a dude like Full Court. He just hides it better and uses historic tidbits to try and pretend he knows basketball. Strange cat

[Kblaze8855]

Seems like you have a major superiority complex as you seem to dismiss anything that you don't find worth your time or attention. This leads me to suggest that you believe your opinions and thoughts are the only ones that matter and that others are not worth considering. Pretty ignorant tbh

If people here didn’t think their opinions were superior to others half the posts wouldn’t be somebody calling somebody else an idiot. The list of people who seem to genuinely be concerned that someone else may have a better take and that they need to consider changing their minds is short. If it exists at all. I just don’t bullshit anyone about it.

Of course I think I’m right. If you didn’t think you were right as well you wouldn’t argue when you disagree with someone.

Im not seriously considering obvious trolls though. People with 6 to 10 accounts posting the same thing Word for Word over and over. I’m just not taking it serious. And even less so when you consider I know for a fact some of them don’t even believe the agendas they sit here all day and support. And some are alts of posters with opposite agendas.

Im not reading what such people have to say. They are here to bug people into talking to them for 400 posts of the same thing they said yesterday. Not what I’m interested in.

[AlternativeAcc.]

If people here didn’t think their opinions were superior to others half the posts wouldn’t be somebody calling somebody else an idiot. The list of people who seem to genuinely be concerned that someone else may have a better take and that they need to consider changing their minds is short. If it exists at all. I just don’t bullshit anyone about it.

Of course I think I’m right. If you didn’t think you were right as well you wouldn’t argue when you disagree with someone.

Im not seriously considering obvious trolls though. People with 6 to 10 accounts posting the same thing Word for Word over and over. I’m just not taking it serious. And even less so when you consider I know for a fact some of them don’t even believe the agendas they sit here all day and support. And some are alts of posters with opposite agendas.

Im not reading what such people have to say. They are here to bug people into talking to them for 400 posts of the same thing they said yesterday. Not what I’m interested in.

But you'll write paragraphs explaining how you don't read people's posts instead of defending your basketball points. Not interested in it! Unless it's a convo you can attempt to look superior in. Am I following correctly?

Oh and now you're screaming "alts alts alts" like even the most lazy and desperate trolls to ever be on here.

Crazy what I've turned you into. :roll: or I guess better said, what I've exposed you as.

[plowking]

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.



Low key... Nah, not even low key. This is one of the worst takes ever on this forum - especially considering it is serious and apparently not coming from bias like most of the other outlandish shit we see. Your follow up points were as bad as this as well, but too much to get through.

Wade and McGrady are my favourite players ever, and even when Wade and Bron were "competing" for the title of best player in the league, I as a massive Wade fan, and LeBron hater at the time, knew LeBron was better and always a couple of steps ahead.

Did Wade have certain intangibles that allowed him to play better in games at times, or close out important games? Sure.

But as players, Bron was always a clear step ahead. Always.

I won't even bother with the McGrady comparison.

[Axe]

King kong.

[Axe]

He isn’t.
Steaming.

[Manny98]

I would say, putting aside accolades and résumé the list gets longer actually. There isn’t much separation among the top wings I’ve ever seen.

Prime Lebron and prime Wade were essentially the same level of basketball player.

Hell if you put Orlando McGrady and LeBron on the same floor the difference wouldn’t be worth arguing over.

Late 80s to first three peat Jordan is the only wing who is notably above the other top ones far as people I’ve personally seen. When you throw out accolades you’re left with a much harder job finding differences. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant….the difference in how well any of them is gonna play in a random game in their primes is isn’t worth arguing over to me.

And the comparison to other positions is almost pointless to me. I’d take Hakeem or Duncan over Lebron for most basketball that’s been played but maybe not for the version being played today. But today has no more reason to be the league used in a hypothetical than any other.

If it’s an all time discussion I don’t feel a need to look through a lens of 2023. Too many variables like that in the end. I would take Shaq over Lebron in 2001. Not for 2022 though.

So it isn’t really as simple as this name or that one.
This guy really just implied that Wade and McGrady are on the same level as prime Lebron:roll:

[Kblaze8855]

Low key... Nah, not even low key. This is one of the worst takes ever on this forum - especially considering it is serious and apparently not coming from bias like most of the other outlandish shit we see. Your follow up points were as bad as this as well, but too much to get through.

Wade and McGrady are my favourite players ever, and even when Wade and Bron were "competing" for the title of best player in the league, I as a massive Wade fan, and LeBron hater at the time, knew LeBron was better and always a couple of steps ahead.

Did Wade have certain intangibles that allowed him to play better in games at times, or close out important games? Sure.

But as players, Bron was always a clear step ahead. Always.

I won't even bother with the McGrady comparison.



Is one of those things people aren’t wired to accept and I’m not too concerned about it. Put ‘em on the same floor you still won’t see much difference. People watch the same thing unfold their entire lives and miss it. I was here in 03 reading some of the same people on tv now saying Kobe and Mcgrady were the two best players in a league with Duncan, the guy on the show I’m watching now(Wilbon) who tweeted Lebron had the best career ever was calling Wade the best player in the league in 06. Hell I was in discussions here asking if Lebron or Dwight were the best in the league and both had people behind them.

But you get years removed everything was always so clear. Gus Williams was all NBA first team over Magic Johnson when magic was about to win his second ring but I bet if you ask even the people who remember if Gus Johnson was as good as Magic Johnson they say absolutely not. Much like the gms who voted that they wanted David Robinson not peak Jordan in 1990.

10-20 years later….nobody wants to cop to it. I don’t mind.

[Kblaze8855]

Oh and for the record:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439300330.jpeg



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439530335.jpeg






Like I said…lot of people didn’t think it was clear cut at the time. Including people who will pretend they did 10 years later.

[AlternativeAcc.]

This guy really just implied that Wade and McGrady are on the same level as prime Lebron:roll:

He's so shook right now too. He's getting bitch slapped but his ego is too big not to double down so he'll continue posting paragraphs of nonsense. Legendary thread incoming

Kblaze: he's not the best

Why kblaze?

"Because gus Johnson was 1st team"




:roll: :roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Oh and for the record:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439300330.jpeg



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439530335.jpeg






Like I said…lot of people didn’t think it was clear cut at the time. Including people who will pretend they did 10 years later.
Here's the desperate cherry-picking :roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Whats funny is LeBron OBVIOUSLY wasn't just talking about peak play. Thats how kblazr interpreted it, but that's not what lebron is primarily talking about.. obviously.

But even so, under kblaze's own parameters he's getting demolished.

Just to add some more context.


And he continues to equate lebrons peak (confusing it with prime) with pre 2012 LeBron which aren't lebrons best years.

Context.

[1987_Lakers]

Oh and for the record:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439300330.jpeg



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439530335.jpeg






Like I said…lot of people didn’t think it was clear cut at the time. Including people who will pretend they did 10 years later.

Wasn't plowing a known Heat fan? He made that statement before LeBron joined them.

[plowking]

Oh and for the record:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439300330.jpeg



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439530335.jpeg






Like I said…lot of people didn’t think it was clear cut at the time. Including people who will pretend they did 10 years later.



I mean - I know what I posted back in the day, hence why I alluded to it in my original post - so it really isn't the gotcha you think it is.

Yeah - I was a Heat/Wade fan back in the day. Still am. At that point, it was them vs us, and I was always going to back my guy. I would have told you Wade was the best player to ever play. Even then, I knew Bron was the better player.

[plowking]

I mean, literally from my first post:


even when Wade and Bron were "competing" for the title of best player in the league, I as a massive Wade fan, and LeBron hater at the time, knew LeBron was better and always a couple of steps ahead.

[red1]

these next two games are going to be beautiful


still scoring 30 points a game, playing in his third prime


https://media.tenor.com/PEShxCJdlEIAAAAC/shawty-lo-dey-know.gif
https://media.tenor.com/PEShxCJdlEIAAAAC/shawty-lo-dey-know.gif
https://media.tenor.com/PEShxCJdlEIAAAAC/shawty-lo-dey-know.gif

[BallsOut]

Oh and for the record:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439300330.jpeg



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439530335.jpeg






Like I said…lot of people didn’t think it was clear cut at the time. Including people who will pretend they did 10 years later.

Kblaze exposing LeBron stans left and right :bowdown:

plowking just got body bagged. Rip.

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldn’t call it a gotcha. You could find me saying LeBron was the best player in the league in 2009 and post it now as if something I’m saying now suggests otherwise. My point which is fairly indisputable is that there were people picking all of them as the best at the time they were watching, but 10 years later? Everyone knows better than they knew then apparently. Same thing happens all over sports. A career plays out in such a way that it’s hard to compare two players so people pretend they never thought they were the same level in the first place.

Nobody is going to tell you Michael Jordan wasn’t the best player in the league in 1990 but he came in third when GM’s were asked who they would select first for their team. People are so worried how things sound they run from their true opinions to fit into the historical narrative.

Nobody in 2019 was gonna say Orlando Tmac was better than Kobe despite it being a 50/50 argument here at the time.

The lens of history screws some people.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Kblaze exposing LeBron stans left and right :bowdown:

plowking just got body bagged. Rip.

He's getting bitch slapped and avoiding the meat of the argument

Guy js scouring old threads trying to find more talking points about how certain guys were perceived in the past.

Gus Johnson is just the beginning.


Guy Is dying on the hill that no player is clear cut better than anyone else. Because at their peaks they were all too close to distinguish.

:roll:


He's so bad.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I wouldn’t call it a gotcha. You could find me saying LeBron was the best player in the league in 2009 and post it now as if something I’m saying now suggests otherwise. My point which is fairly indisputable is that there were people picking all of them as the best at the time they were watching, but 10 years later? Everyone knows better than they knew then apparently. Same thing happens all over sports. A career plays out in such a way that it’s hard to compare two players so people pretend they never thought they were the same level in the first place.

Nobody is going to tell you Michael Jordan wasn’t the best player in the league in 1990 but he came in third when GM’s were asked who they would select first for their team. People are so worried how things sound they run from their true opinions to fit into the historical narrative.

Nobody in 2019 was gonna say Orlando Tmac was better than Kobe despite it being a 50/50 argument here at the time.

The lens of history screws some people.

When did 2016 lebron play with 2003 tmac?

Plenty of people say tmac and Kobe were similar in 2003.

Nothing you're saying is indisputable. It's all garbage.

[dankok8]

kblaze's post is perfectly reasonable and in fact I agree with it. There wasn't much separating Lebron and Wade as basketball players from 2005-2011. Anyone who tells you otherwise either wasn't alive during that era or is trying to create false narratives. Wade not winning MVP's had to do with his lack of durability and worse rosters but purely as a basketball player he was roughly on Lebron's level as was Kobe in those years.

As for Lebron's peak some people consider 2009 to be his peak. I sure don't but some do.

[Full Court]

Nice try, Bronie. We didn't forget about 2011. :lol

[BallsOut]

Oh and for the record:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439300330.jpeg



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439530335.jpeg






Like I said…lot of people didn’t think it was clear cut at the time. Including people who will pretend they did 10 years later.

Kblaze exposing LeBron stans left and right :bowdown:

Ether the sht that makes your soul burn slow :biggums:

[AlternativeAcc.]

kblaze's post is perfectly reasonable and in fact I agree with it. There wasn't much separating Lebron and Wade as basketball players from 2005-2011. Anyone who tells you otherwise either wasn't alive during that era or is trying to create false narratives. Wade not winning MVP's had to do with his lack of durability and worse rosters but purely as a basketball player he was roughly on Lebron's level as was Kobe in those years.

As for Lebron's peak some people consider 2009 to be his peak. I sure don't but some do.

Ignoring the fact that that's wrong, those weren't even lebrons best years.

And lebron wasn't even talking about peak. He's talking about just the whole package.

So he's triple wrong. That's the problem.

[dankok8]

lebrons best years.

And lebron wasn't even talking about peak. He's talking about just the whole package.

So he's triple wrong. That's the problem.

kblaze was talking about basketball ability though not career greatness.

[AlternativeAcc.]

kblaze was talking about basketball ability though not career greatness.

And lebron was clearly better from 2015-2018 than any of Wade or Tmac years. (He's better pretty much every year than those guys ever were but it was even more clear in 2015-2018)

I know what he was trying to argue. It's just patently false.

He doesn't get credit for falsely interpretating something and then still being wrong.

[Kblaze8855]

kblaze's post is perfectly reasonable and in fact I agree with it. There wasn't much separating Lebron and Wade as basketball players from 2005-2011. Anyone who tells you otherwise either wasn't alive during that era or is trying to create false narratives. Wade not winning MVP's had to do with his lack of durability and worse rosters but purely as a basketball player he was roughly on Lebron's level as was Kobe in those years.

As for Lebron's peak some people consider 2009 to be his peak. I sure don't but some do.


If you asked me in 2009 I’d probably have said it was Lebron, Kobe, then Wade….other than if you asked after I watched Wade give us like 50 and hit a 3 point runner to win it in overtime after he stole it.

But none of them really did anything to stand out. Some would say Wades 06 finals stood out most, or Kobe’s random scoring outbursts, or Lebrons better regular season records, or later Kobe winning the 2 rings. Just depends who you ask and when. 05-12? Might go Wade, Wade, Kobe/Lebron, Kobe, Lebron, Lebron, Lebron/Wade, Lebron. Maybe make 05 a tossup.

Something like that.

Nobody just took hold of it. If you asked the players they’re probably gonna say Kobe did though.

[SaltyMeatballs]

kblaze was talking about basketball ability though not career greatness.

Even if you just focus on basketball ability LeBron's absolute peak is still above Wade and definitely above T-Mac

[Full Court]

Best basketball player ever......:roll:

Well, there's this, just from the postseason:

2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.

Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.

Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.

2009 game 2 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.

2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.

2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.

Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.

Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.

Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.

Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.

2013 game 3 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 4 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.

2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.

2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.

Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.

2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.

Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.

2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.

Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.

Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.

Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.

2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.

Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

[SaltyMeatballs]

Best basketball player ever......:roll:

Well, there's this, just from the postseason:

2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.

Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.

Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.

2009 game 2 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.

2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.

2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.

Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.

Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.

Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.

Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.

2013 game 3 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 4 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.

2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.

2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.

Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.

2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.

Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.

2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.

Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.

Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.

Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.

2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.

Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

Cherry-pick fest

[dankok8]

And lebron was clearly better from 2015-2018 than any of Wade or Tmac years. (He's better pretty much every year than those guys ever were but it was even more clear in 2015-2018)

I know what he was trying to argue. It's just patently false.

He doesn't get credit for falsely interpretating something and then still being wrong.

2015-2018 Lebron isn't even clearly better than 2009-2010 Lebron so why would it be clearly better than peak Wade who was on the same tier with 2009-2010 Lebron... I don't know what you think he was trying to say but his post isn't ridiculous.


Even if you just focus on basketball ability LeBron's absolute peak is still above Wade and definitely above T-Mac

T-Mac's peak is hard to evaluate given who he played with in Orlando. As a basketball player though he was as good as anyone.

Anyways peaks are subjective as hell.

[SouBeachTalents]

I don't think anyone disputes that a mere good player can match or even outplay a GOAT tier one on any given night. Where I think people disagree with Blaze is, LeBron's shown to reach a level of play that the likes of Kobe, Wade, Durant, Curry, Kawhi etc., while they might even come close, aren't able to match. He has entire playoff runs, and not just fluky first round ones, where he's produced more points, rebounds and assists than any of those guys ever did, in addition to in his prime being at worst, the 2nd best defender of the group behind Kawhi. He has the eye test (admittedly subjective), production, advanced metrics (far from perfect, but pretty telling LeBron & Jordan are top two in many of them) and the accolades.

You can legitimately eliminate almost half of his career, LeBron from 2009-2020 completely laps the field in terms of what those guys were able to accomplish individually. And for anyone complaining about team hopping or superteams, all those guys played on mostly good-great teams during their career. Now you add on averaging 30 ppg at 38 years old, that's just the cherry on top of the argument.

So in conclusion, I agree that players tiers apart on the all time list can be close in terms of peak play, but there's a lot of evidence you could point to, some of which I outlined above, that points to LeBron being a better player than those you mentioned. When one guy has 8 total MVP's and the next closest of his contemporaries has 3, that's a massive gap and should tell you, even if it's close on any given night,that he was a pretty clear level above his contemporaries.

[SaltyMeatballs]

T-Mac's peak is hard to evaluate given who he played with in Orlando. As a basketball player though he was as good as anyone.

Anyways peaks are subjective as hell.

I'm talking about his peak against LeBron's. LeBron was definitely better in his peak. More efficient, smarter, better playmaker, better defender, better in the paint, etc.

[AlternativeAcc.]

2015-2018 Lebron isn't even clearly better than 2009-2010 Lebron so why would it be clearly better than peak Wade who was on the same tier with 2009-2010 Lebron... I don't know what you think he was trying to say but his post isn't ridiculous.



T-Mac's peak is hard to evaluate given who he played with in Orlando. As a basketball player though he was as good as anyone.

Anyways peaks are subjective as hell.



Yes he was clearly better. Experience, championship experience, attacking fearless mentality.

Some of you guys just don't understand the nuances of the game.

And kblaze tried to make the point that you can't put your 35 year old mind in your 20 year old body... but lebron by age 30 had 10+ years of experience and multiple title runs under his belt while still being the best athlete on the planet.

So he ethered his own views.


Anyone who has payed close attention to lebrons career knows that he got better with age. A lot of it was mental.

[StrongLurk]

Lebron is smart to say these things nowadays.

Back in the day before social media, it was a huge no no to talk like this publicly.

But with social media and quick information, nobody checks or verifies things. So if someone or people say something enough, regardless of it's actually true, then a large amount of people will simply start to believe it.

The more Lebron says he is the GOAT, the more young people now and in the future with believe it.

[Jasper]

He isn’t.

thank you.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I don't think anyone disputes that a mere good player can match or even outplay a GOAT tier one on any given night. Where I think people disagree with Blaze is, LeBron's shown to reach a level of play that the likes of Kobe, Wade, Durant, Curry, Kawhi etc., while they might even come close, aren't able to match. He has entire playoff runs, and not just fluky first round ones, where he's produced more points, rebounds and assists than any of those guys ever did, in addition to in his prime being at worst, the 2nd best defender of the group behind Kawhi. He has the eye test (admittedly subjective), production, advanced metrics (far from perfect, but pretty telling LeBron & Jordan are top two in many of them) and the accolades.

You can legitimately eliminate almost half of his career, LeBron from 2009-2020 completely laps the field in terms of what those guys were able to accomplish individually. And for anyone complaining about team hopping or superteams, all those guys played on mostly good-great teams during their career. Now you add on averaging 30 ppg at 38 years old, that's just the cherry on top of the argument.

So in conclusion, I agree that players tiers apart on the all time list can be close in terms of peak play, but there's a lot of evidence you could point to, some of which I outlined above, that points to LeBron being a better player than those you mentioned. When one guy has 8 total MVP's and the next closest of his contemporaries has 3, that's a massive gap and should tell you, even if it's close on any given night,that he was a pretty clear level above his contemporaries.

Good post.

Not only did lebron peak higher in the playoffs, but he did it for several years.

Just undeniably better.

We have a lot of guys on here who don't know shit lol.

[Jasper]

I also want to point out that a complete player is also a defender.
mvp - mj (5)
mvp - lebron(4)
Lebron has never won defensive player of the year.
Only 3 players have won the coveted MVP as well as defensive player of the year :
Antetokounmpo also joined Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon as the only players to have won the MVP, Finals MVP, and Defensive Player of the Year awards during the span of their careers.

[Kblaze8855]

I don't think anyone disputes that a mere good player can match or even outplay a GOAT tier one on any given night. Where I think people disagree with Blaze is, LeBron's shown to reach a level of play that the likes of Kobe, Wade, Durant, Curry, Kawhi etc., while they might even come close, aren't able to match. He has entire playoff runs, and not just fluky first round ones, where he's produced more points, rebounds and assists than any of those guys ever did, in addition to in his prime being at worst, the 2nd best defender of the group behind Kawhi. He has the eye test (admittedly subjective), production, advanced metrics (far from perfect, but pretty telling LeBron & Jordan are top two in many of them) and the accolades.

You can legitimately eliminate almost half of his career, LeBron from 2009-2020 completely laps the field in terms of what those guys were able to accomplish individually. And for anyone complaining about team hopping or superteams, all those guys played on mostly good-great teams during their career. Now you add on averaging 30 ppg at 38 years old, that's just the cherry on top of the argument.

So in conclusion, I agree that players tiers apart on the all time list can be close in terms of peak play, but there's a lot of evidence you could point to, some of which I outlined above, that points to LeBron being a better player than those you mentioned. When one guy has 8 total MVP's and the next closest of his contemporaries has 3, that's a massive gap and should tell you, even if it's close on any given night,that he was a pretty clear level above his contemporaries.


It’s just a different conversation. You talking about 8 total mvps. The Tmac in question only existed for 3 healthy years on a team that was laughable. Prime Wade was what…4 years of health? 4 or 5 if you consider 2011 his prime. Leonard….about the same.

Lebron was Lebron for like 15 years. Which is why his career is miles beyond those guys and most others.

Theres no question which career is best.

Theres also no question that isn’t the question.

I don’t know what accolades a pre back injury Tmac might have if healthy for 15 years playing with Wade, Kyrie, AD and so on. It doesn’t really matter. He wasnt. But you put him on the same floor with peak Duncan, prime Kobe, and slightly declining Shaq it isn’t like he’s gotta bring his A game to compete. His norm and their norm…similar level of player.

Few would dispute it watching it happen. But 20 years later it’s a stupid question. That’s sports.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I also want to point out that a complete player is also a defender.
mvp - mj (5)
mvp - lebron(4)
Lebron has never won defensive player of the year.
Only 3 players have won the coveted MVP as well as defensive player of the year :
Antetokounmpo also joined Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon as the only players to have won the MVP, Finals MVP, and Defensive Player of the Year awards during the span of their careers.

Lebron peaked higher as a defender too.

His versatility and team defense was far better than michaels which is better suited for today's game

His most ironic play was a game-saving chase down block which encapsulates LeBron at that time. Only he could've made that play. Only he could've led both teams in every stat and defeated a 73 win team.

Nobody else in history could've done what he did.

Kill yourself jasper.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It’s just a different conversation. You talking about 8 total mvps. The Tmac in question only existed for 3 healthy years on a team that was laughable. Prime Wade was what…4 years of health? 4 or 5 if you consider 2011 his prime. Leonard….about the same.

Lebron was Lebron for like 15 years. Which is why his career is miles beyond those guys and most others.

Theres no question which career is best.

Theres also no question that isn’t the question.

I don’t know what accolades a pre back injury Tmac might have if healthy for 15 years playing with Wade, Kyrie, AD and so on. It doesn’t really matter. He wasnt. But you put him on the same floor with peak Duncan, prime Kobe, and slightly declining Shaq it isn’t like he’s gotta bring his A game to compete. His norm and their norm…similar level of player.

Few would dispute it watching it happen. But 20 years later it’s a stupid question. That’s sports.

More cherry picking and ducking


Hasn't acknowledged any of the main points

So sad


Yeah lebron just was the same exact player for 15 years. Thats how it works. :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

He very well may be, he's earned the right to talk his shit I'd say.

[Full Court]

Cherry-pick fest

Yep. Just "cherry-picking" a mere 40+ games.

:roll:

"LeShrivel"

[1987_Lakers]

I mean - I know what I posted back in the day, hence why I alluded to it in my original post - so it really isn't the gotcha you think it is.

Yeah - I was a Heat/Wade fan back in the day. Still am. At that point, it was them vs us, and I was always going to back my guy. I would have told you Wade was the best player to ever play. Even then, I knew Bron was the better player.

I get it. I knew LeBron surpassed Kobe as a player by 2009. But every chance I got, I would always defend Kobe and throw shade at LeBron here in there on this site from about 2009-2012.

[SaltyMeatballs]

Yep. Just "cherry-picking" a mere 40+ games.

:roll:

"LeShrivel"

You classify any bad playoff game as a choke, even if LeBron and his team ended up winning that series. That's not how chokes work you ****ing retard :oldlol:

Definitely a load of cherry-picking

[Axe]

You classify any bad playoff game as a choke, even if LeBron and his team ended up winning that series. That's not how chokes work you ****ing retard :oldlol:
For the braindead forum jizzrag, anything that lekong does is a fukking choke. That's also coming from the same insecure retard who obnoxiously lied about not hating him while also whining about how he tried to trademark taco tuesday and taking a pro-china stance.

[Lebron23]

You classify any bad playoff game as a choke, even if LeBron and his team ended up winning that series. That's not how chokes work you ****ing retard :oldlol:

Definitely a load of cherry-picking

Can you just start reporting his posts??

[Full Court]

I also want to point out that a complete player is also a defender.
mvp - mj (5)
mvp - lebron(4)
Lebron has never won defensive player of the year.
Only 3 players have won the coveted MVP as well as defensive player of the year :
Antetokounmpo also joined Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon as the only players to have won the MVP, Finals MVP, and Defensive Player of the Year awards during the span of their careers.

And add a scoring title to Jordan's list. If I'm not mistaken, I believe he's the only one to win all four of those awards.

[Full Court]

Can you just start reporting his posts??

You Bronie fluffers have been doing that for a long time. :roll:

It just shows what a mentally fragile idiot you are.

[SaltyMeatballs]

Can you just start reporting his posts??

Nothing ****ing happens

[1987_Lakers]

For what it's worth.

'08-09 Results

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares
1. Le James 23 3 0 0 0 251 0.965
2. Kobe Bryant 3 17 6 0 0 179 0.688
3. D. Wade 0 5 6 13 1 105 0.404

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1006295&start=240

[ArbitraryWater]

kblaze makes no sense when it comes to rankings


hes just like "well theres about 50 guys who can outplay you any given night, pick whoever"


ok thx

[FKAri]

He isn’t.

He's right though. He feels like he's the best basketball player that ever played the game.

[SATAN]

LeBron forcing Full Court into yet another meltdown:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VYimRCYJ8IQ/UgKzD1u3feI/AAAAAAAAK8w/XS4tZ9WYsj4/s1600/mariondemo.gif

:lol

[BallsOut]

He isn’t.

First reply slays are always the greatest :applause:

Got the Bron stans so mad they can't stop replying to you now :lebronamazed:

[Kblaze8855]

kblaze makes no sense when it comes to rankings


hes just like "well theres about 50 guys who can outplay you any given night, pick whoever"


ok thx

Just depends on what you ask me to rank. Your abstract career greatness means absolutely nothing to a game of basketball.

All the truly all time guys are so great…they’re the 99.99999th percentile and everyone’s favorite comment is “And it’s not even close”.

Its all close. Slam did a top 500. When number 368 can outplay number 43 in a series and knock him out….what the **** does it even matter?

When a top 5 all timer(at the time) pairs with a top 15-20 and gets beat by a crackhead and some role players of what use is 30 thousand points? They don’t go on the scoreboard.

You’re as good as you can be expected to play at any given moment in your prime. And yea….there’s probably 50+ guys who could at any given moment play with most of the top 10….because the top 10 isn’t there for purely prime basketball playing ability.

Kareem isn’t 75 spots ahead of Mcadoo because he’s that much better. He’s there because he was Kareem for 15-17 years and Bob Mcadoo was only Bob Mcadoo for like 2-3 years.

If Jordan retired to play baseball in 1988 he’d be a what if….even though by 87 he was probably top 3-5 all time.

You gotta define these things pretty tight to get a definitive answer from me. In truth there is so much we just can’t compare. I don’t know what the hell Trae Young is in 2003 or if anyone even gives Moses Malone the ball today.

We are adding up eye test skills in circumstances that can’t be compared but then having to apply the mysterious “it” on top of it.

The shit isn’t science it’s religion. In the end it’s decided on what the person talking wants to believe. Which is why “greater” is popular. It’s easier and more fun.

People aren’t really trying to talk about boxing out, tempo control, off hand, contested shooting, ball denial, unselfishness, effort, decision making, and the dozens of things that make one player more effective than another.

That’s boring.

”He won 4 super bowls!” is easy. And with the right personalities it’s fun to listen to.

A real breakdown is boring…and often inconclusive.

[John8204]

8 men can make this claim and only five are still alive (Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Bird) so he's got a case. I don't agree with it but what's he going to say.

[RRR3]

Just depends on what you ask me to rank. Your abstract career greatness means absolutely nothing to a game of basketball.

All the truly all time guys are so great…they’re the 99.99999th percentile and everyone’s favorite comment is “And it’s not even close”.

Its all close. Slam did a top 500. When number 368 can outplay number 43 in a series and knock him out….what the **** does it even matter?

When a top 5 all timer(at the time) pairs with a top 15-20 and gets beat by a crackhead and some role players of what use is 30 thousand points? They don’t go on the scoreboard.

You’re as good as you can be expected to play at any given moment in your prime. And yea….there’s probably 50+ guys who could at any given moment play with most of the top 10….because the top 10 isn’t there for purely prime basketball playing ability.

Kareem isn’t 75 spots ahead of Mcadoo because he’s that much better. He’s there because he was Kareem for 15-17 years and Bob Mcadoo was only Bob Mcadoo for like 2-3 years.

If Jordan retired to play baseball in 1988 he’d be a what if….even though by 87 he was probably top 3-5 all time.

You gotta define these things pretty tight to get a definitive answer from me. In truth there is so much we just can’t compare. I don’t know what the hell Trae Young is in 2003 or if anyone even gives Moses Malone the ball today.

We are adding up eye test skills in circumstances that can’t be compared but then having to apply the mysterious “it” on top of it.

The shit isn’t science it’s religion. In the end it’s decided on what the person talking wants to believe. Which is why “greater” is popular. It’s easier and more fun.

People aren’t really trying to talk about boxing out, tempo control, off hand, contested shooting, ball denial, unselfishness, effort, decision making, and the dozens of things that make one player more effective than another.

That’s boring.

”He won 4 super bowls!” is easy. And with the right personalities it’s fun to listen to.

A real breakdown is boring…and often inconclusive.
Was Bob McAdoo even a good defender? Kareem is one of the greats on that end.

[Full Court]

LeBron forcing Full Court into yet another meltdown:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VYimRCYJ8IQ/UgKzD1u3feI/AAAAAAAAK8w/XS4tZ9WYsj4/s1600/mariondemo.gif

:lol

Beezleblubber's upset because I force him to face the truth about LeShrivel....


And he has nothing at all to counter with.

:roll: Pathetic, really.

[kawhileonard2]

https://i.gyazo.com/d1e80188b7ede9ca4d4c3267e3ac5162.png

LeGOAT speaking the truth just before becoming the all time leader scorer, alpha as ****

Then why switch teams like 5 times and stacking the deck and a dude in his own era has as many titles?

[kawhileonard2]

Need an answer on each thread below.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT

Record against teams with an SRS of 5.0 or higher.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497187-Record-against-teams-with-an-SRS-of-5-0-or-higher

Not 3, not 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Playoff Mode Activated or A Storm is Coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494319-Not-3-not-4-5-6-7-8-or-Playoff-Mode-Activated-or-A-Storm-is-Coming/page2


Playoff Mode: ACTIVATED
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473762-Playoff-Mode-ACTIVATED

Lowest Scoring Supporting Cast Overall Playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?463869-Lowest-Scoring-Supporting-Cast-Overall-Playoffs/page3


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499837-Greatest-floor-raise-of-all-time/page2
Lebron played with Shaq who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's and lost in round 2. Lebron played with Peak Duncan who had won 2 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's and won bronze medal. Lebron played with Peak Wade who won finals mvp and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron played with Derrick Rose who won mvp under age 30 which was the same as Kevin Durant who won mvp under 30 while both were on Golden State and Cleveland. Lebron played with mulitple PER leaders as well and now Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and more triple doubles than Oscar Robertson. Yet despite all of that Lebron lost with all of them.


Jarrett Allen vs Gobert and Jarrett Allen vs Lebron
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499786-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Gobert-and-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500431-Lakers-were-1-in-Preseason-Odds-in-2021-and-Suns-were-14
Was #1 in Preseason odds and lost to a 14th seed in odds

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html

And Devin Booker walked them down in the playoffs with Devin outplaying Lebron. :confusedshrug:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500416-Why-did-Pelinka-surround-Lebron-with-a-bullshit-roster
He has peak Anthony Davis, the best player on the 2020 squad and the reason the Lakers did anything as the 2019 Lakers missed the playoffs and 2021 Lakers lost in round 1 when AD wasn't around. He has Prime Melo who won a scoring title and all time leader in scoring for the Olympics. He has Dwight Howard a 3x DPOY and a guy who beat Lebron without HCA. He has Westbrook who is the modern day Oscar Robertson and also won league mvp along with average a Triple Double 4 years in a row. He also has Rondo who is a hall of famer.

Why didn't he play it against Dwight Howard in 2009 when Dwight was dominating http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?459570-How-is-it-even-possible-to-lose-to-Dwight-Howard-in-a-series-with-HCA/page10? Or against Duncan or KG or Dirk? Why did he run away from KD a guy at his position?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head

Why didn't he do **** against Booker in the playoffs as well?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron


Devin Booker broke Lebron
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500264-Devin-Booker-broke-Lebron&p=14500724


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503966-3ball-why-can-LeBron-win-with-Irving-but-KD-can-t&p=14584482#post14584482

Lebron won bronze medal twice and lost with HCA 3x. Jordan only won gold medal and never lost with HCA. Prove me wrong!

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500440-Russell-Westbrook-leading-the-league-in-Triple-Doubles-Thus-far-in-2022-Season
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/triple-double-leaders-2021-2022-stats

Expected Championships Won and Titles Over Expected
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500379-Expected-Championships-Won-and-Titles-Over-Expected/page3&p=14503600


How did LeBron go 10-16 vs Kawhi? 7-12 vs Shaq? 17-23 vs Curry?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500334-How-did-LeBron-go-10-16-vs-Kawhi-7-12-vs-Shaq-17-23-vs-Curry

Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #1
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497028-Top-50-All-Time-List-Shot-Clock-Era-1&p=14426360&viewfull=1#post14426360


Difference between Lebron and Tmac?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494830-Difference-between-Lebron-and-Tmac
Both 0-2 with HCA against 50+ win teams until they joined forces with someone who won as the man. Also won bronze medals.

Tmac lost to Utah in 2007 while Lebron was losing to a career loser in Dwight Howard and also Carlos Arroyo in the Olympics with peak Tim Duncan on his squad despite playing more minutes than Hakeem even played on the 1996 Olympic team.



LeBron's message that makes the NBA shake: A storm is coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500734-LeBron-s-message-that-makes-the-NBA-shake-A-storm-is-coming

https://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2021/04/09/6070b833ca47418e588b45e9.html


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?480740-Vasileios-Spanoulis-gt-gt-gt-Lebron-James
Outplayed Lebron in FIBA and caused America to get another bronze medal and then Greece got spanked in Gold medal final.:oldlol:

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/game/p/gid/A/grid/75/rid/5152/sid/3507/_/2006_FIBA_World_Championship/statistic.html


First Time Ever a team with 2 guys who won MVP missed the playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503543-First-Time-Ever-a-team-with-2-guys-who-won-MVP-missed-the-playoffs


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503981-Why-does-Lebron-have-2-bronze-medals-while-KD-only-has-gold-medals&p=14584371#post14584371

https://media0.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

[plowking]

I mean Kblaze's argument is - you could argue Wade was as good as him because it was discussed.

By your own logic David Robinson and Clyde Drexler were being discussed as good as Michael Jordan. Guess he isn't the best ever due to that.

I'm not even saying if he is or isn't the best - but the whole argument it is based off is just plain wrong.

[r15mohd]

I mean Kblaze's argument is - you could argue Wade was as good as him because it was discussed.

By your own logic David Robinson and Clyde Drexler were being discussed as good as Michael Jordan. Guess he isn't the best ever due to that.

I'm not even saying if he is or isn't the best - but the whole argument it is based off is just plain wrong.

regardless of all of that, to base it off a spike season or two is dumbfounded...and even to that, Lebron was equally as good, if not better, than Wade during Wade's best run. wont even get into the TMAC comparison, it's atrocious lol

[Axe]

LeBron forcing Full Court into yet another meltdown:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VYimRCYJ8IQ/UgKzD1u3feI/AAAAAAAAK8w/XS4tZ9WYsj4/s1600/mariondemo.gif

:lol
:oldlol:

[Micku]

https://i.gyazo.com/d1e80188b7ede9ca4d4c3267e3ac5162.png

LeGOAT speaking the truth just before becoming the all time leader scorer, alpha as ****

As well as he should think like that. I feel like any player who play at that high of a level probably think like that. Kobe thought he was the best. MJ definitely thought he was the best. Russell thought he was the best. LeBron thinks he was the best. Shaq at his peak, probably thought he was the best.

I don't think he has the best career to really say he's the best of the best, but he is among the best. He is in that GOAT tier to me.

[SATAN]

Shaq at his peak, probably thought he was the best.


Shaq now thinks LeBron is the GOAT. :pimp:

[Kblaze8855]

I mean Kblaze's argument is - you could argue Wade was as good as him because it was discussed.

By your own logic David Robinson and Clyde Drexler were being discussed as good as Michael Jordan. Guess he isn't the best ever due to that.

I'm not even saying if he is or isn't the best - but the whole argument it is based off is just plain wrong.

It might be if I said it.

I said Wade was playing basketball on about the same level and people didn’t find it controversial to say so. Many people…like you…thought it. And as is often the case we get long past it and people start bullshitting.

It is never…literally never….as cut and dry while people watch an era…as it is 20 years later when society settles a question due to how a career plays out and they start acting like they have a clearer view of things than they did while living them.

Millions of people would have taken others over Jordan at the time in question. 18 GM chose someone else to start a team. 3 picked Jordan. The fact that virtually none of them would make the same pick if asked about 1990 right now isn’t because they remember how people were playing at the time better 30 years later. It’s societal pressure, not wanting to look like idiots to people who didn’t even watch the era, and knowing how the following years unfolded.

A basketball argument from one moment can’t change due to what happens 5-6 years later. But we do it anyway because most are afraid to go against public perception. Lebron is no better in 2009 than when we were all in 2009 and people were trying to decide who was best.

These things are always a discussion with different answers by different people because none of them are as cut and dry as people try to make them in order to fit the narrative that settles in.

A lot of people are just manipulated by society and afraid to be real about such things. Weird thing to be fake about to me. Not like you get canceled by society over a sports take. You have an interesting tactic though. Not “I was wrong”. You go with “I was lying”. You were never wrong. You can’t just be wrong. You were right even then. Just lying about it.

Sports fans are a weird group.

[plowking]

It might be if I said it.

I said Wade was playing basketball on about the same level and people didn’t find it controversial to say so. Many people…like you…thought it. And as is often the case we get long past it and people start bullshitting.

It is never…literally never….as cut and dry while people watch an era…as it is 20 years later when society settles a question due to how a career plays out and they start acting like they have a clearer view of things than they did while living them.

Millions of people would have taken others over Jordan at the time in question. 18 GM chose someone else to start a team. 3 picked Jordan. The fact that virtually none of them would make the same pick if asked about 1990 right now isn’t because they remember how people were playing at the time better 30 years later. It’s societal pressure, not wanting to look like idiots to people who didn’t even watch the era, and knowing how the following years unfolded.

A basketball argument from one moment can’t change due to what happens 5-6 years later. But we do it anyway because most are afraid to go against public perception. Lebron is no better in 2009 than when we were all in 2009 and people were trying to decide who was best.

These things are always a discussion with different answers by different people because none of them are as cut and dry as people try to make them in order to fit the narrative that settles in.

A lot of people are just manipulated by society and afraid to be real about such things. Weird thing to be fake about to me. Not like you get canceled by society over a sports take. You have an interesting tactic though. Not “I was wrong”. You go with “I was lying”. You were never wrong. You can’t just be wrong. You were right even then. Just lying about it.

Sports fans are a weird group.

I mean you've gone with the "I was lying" thing as if you caught me out, when I actually even said prior to you going digging for posts, that as a Wade fan it was coming from a place of cope and fandom. In reality, I knew Bron was the best player in the league as early as 08ish. As a Wade fan, I even cheered for Kobe over Bron, but watching the games I knew.

Reality is, aside from the 2011 meltdown - since 09 - even in his finals losses, you've never walked away from the game/series thinking someone was better than Bron. Even those GSW losses when KD was putting up absurd numbers. Not until about 2020/21.


There isn't much separating Bron, Kobe and Wade? Sure. But there is just enough.
There wasn't much separating Jordan, Barkley and Hakeem. But just enough.

You ultimately knew who was slightly better. And thats all it is at that level. And LeBron was that for 12-13 years.

Does this achievement add to his greatness/legacy or the case for GOAT? Absolutely. The thing that makes an athlete great is consistency. Otherwise the SG from Brooklyn who's name I don't even know is the best player in the world. Dude is nearly 40 years old, putting up 30ppg, and is still a top 20 player in the league. Probably top 15. I don't know for a fact - but based on what we're seeing, I strongly believe he'd still be able to be the best player on a title winning team...

[BallsOut]

Oh and for the record:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439300330.jpeg


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2302080439530335.jpeg






Like I said…lot of people didn’t think it was clear cut at the time. Including people who will pretend they did 10 years later.

Caught plowking red handed now he pretending he didn’t mean it. It’s great to see you expose long time LeBron stans for what they are, lying shts who claim things to be when they aren’t in reality. Just like their idol no wonder they cling to him. Losers support losers :roll:

[Wally450]

I'd agree with him. At worst he's 2nd best all time. Idk why people get so upset about this.

[Kblaze8855]

I mean you've gone with the "I was lying" thing as if you caught me out, when I actually even said prior to you going digging for posts, that as a Wade fan it was coming from a place of cope and fandom. In reality, I knew Bron was the best player in the league as early as 08ish. As a Wade fan, I even cheered for Kobe over Bron, but watching the games I knew.

Reality is, aside from the 2011 meltdown - since 09 - even in his finals losses, you've never walked away from the game/series thinking someone was better than Bron. Even those GSW losses when KD was putting up absurd numbers. Not until about 2020/21.


There isn't much separating Bron, Kobe and Wade? Sure. But there is just enough.
There wasn't much separating Jordan, Barkley and Hakeem. But just enough.

You ultimately knew who was slightly better. And thats all it is at that level. And LeBron was that for 12-13 years.

Does this achievement add to his greatness/legacy or the case for GOAT? Absolutely. The thing that makes an athlete great is consistency. Otherwise the SG from Brooklyn who's name I don't even know is the best player in the world. Dude is nearly 40 years old, putting up 30ppg, and is still a top 20 player in the league. Probably top 15. I don't know for a fact - but based on what we're seeing, I strongly believe he'd still be able to be the best player on a title winning team...


I go with “You were lying” because that’s what you tell me. I don’t know you well enough to judge your character like that. All I know is what you tell me and what I can see. For all the talk of me being difficult it comes down to me being able to acknowledge that I don’t have factual answers for things that are too close to call.

I don’t pick and then act like the millions arguing didn’t exist and it wasn’t an argument to begin with. I’m comfortable with “I can’t be sure” because I’d rather be genuine and seem indecisive than put up a decisive front that isn’t real.

Im fine saying “Don’t know for sure” and I get called out for it even by people content to lie about being sure one way while actually…being sure the other way.

All this “It’s not arguable” shit makes no sense to me because I’ve seen decades of people arguing all of it. Nobody argues Kobe or Sam Cassell. Not seriously. People did and do argue Kobe or Wade or Kobe or Tmac. These players were chosen by qualified observers on every level…fan, players, coaches…executives…whoever…and I’m not gonna pretend it wasn’t a question because people decades later would rather look right and intelligent with hindsight.

I don’t care how many people are with or against me about anything. I’m content to be the only one or in the vast majority. I’m not gonna give a fraudulent answer to troll or to fit in or because I’m too emotional to see what’s happening. You don’t appear to operate that way.

Giannis might win 4 more and then I’ll have you telling me you secretly knew he was the goat already but had to rep Lebron for whatever reason you pick at the time. I just give you what I think is true. You’re welcome to think I’m wrong. It’s all arguable within reason. And that’s the whole point.

Maybe I’m right. Maybe you’re right. There is no actual answer. And I’m comfortable with that. Some things can’t be known. Only believed. And there’s a wide range of what informed people can and do believe. Makes it very hard for me to say what can’t be argued with people on a certain level.

Informed and reasonable people won’t argue Lebron or Michael Redd. Informed and reasonable people argued Lebron, Wade, and Kobe in whatever order. Just as they argued Tmac, Kobe, KG, Shaq, and Duncan and put them in any order.

Im not gonna act like the questions are stupid decades later when I’m not even watching the people in question play to develop fresh memories and opinions.

There is a really short list of things people took serious that in retrospect were truly ridiculous. Wade and Tmac being as good as all time elite wings isn’t among them.

[3ba11]

This idiot had whimpering underdogs AFTER hand-picking super-teams and barely met the underdog expectation (1/4 with AD, Love and Wade except the Allen miracle)

So he's a literal fraud - the biggest one in sports history and all the facts are there to objectively show it

He won 53 games with prime Kyrie/Love in 2017 instead of 65-70 - the Finals was supposed to be a clash of titans

[j3lademaster]

Maybe IÂ’m right. Maybe youÂ’re right. There is no actual answer. And IÂ’m comfortable with that. Some things canÂ’t be known. Only believed. And thereÂ’s a wide range of what informed people can and do believe. Makes it very hard for me to say what canÂ’t be argued with people on a certain level.

Informed and reasonable people wonÂ’t argue Lebron or Michael Redd. Informed and reasonable people argued Lebron, Wade, and Kobe in whatever order. Just as they argued Tmac, Kobe, KG, Shaq, and Duncan and put them in any order.

Im not gonna act like the questions are stupid decades later when IÂ’m not even watching the people in question play to develop fresh memories and opinions.

There is a really short list of things people took serious that in retrospect were truly ridiculous. Wade and Tmac being as good as all time elite wings isnÂ’t among them.I think a lot of it has to do with two things: inflation of stats and perception of a winner.

03 Tmac and Kobe, 04 Garnett, 06 Kobe, 09 Wade, 10 Lebron were all considered video game stats back then. Now you bring up Wade's 09: 30/5/7 on 49/32/77, it's like ok... cool. Lebron putting up 30/7/9 in 10? Good statline. What'd he do in the playoffs? I still remember thinking Dwight in 2011 was a top 2 or 3 guy. People are numb to the Doncic and Jokic statlines now, and modern load managing is undermining the value of the regular season. So people who are depending on stats and highlights aren't getting the full picture, just like i don't get the full picture of the 80's, or Wilt's era for that matter. I kinda just read some stats, watch some h2h highlights of him vs Russell and go "okay how the hell is Russell the better player, how is that even debatable"?

The second is perception of a winner. Wade solidified a reputation as a 'winner' in 06. Regardless of how logical or stupid that sounds is irrelevant, it definitely altered the way he was looked at(whether people realize it or not) so he would get more leniency for putting up numbers and "failing". The 2010 playoffs then gave Lebron the perception that he couldn't win, and I'll be the first to admit 2011 was a weak move and I hated him for it. But then he took it to another gear and got even better in 2012 and won as the most scrutinized athlete I've personally witnessed(wasn't there for Jesse Owens and Robinson). And now he's got that perception of a guy who's won, so everything he's done is looked at differently.

I do believe 15-18 Lebron trumps Wade, Tmac, Kobe etc for me at a rather noticeable level(how do you measure 'noticeable' anyway?). If you were an alien and just learned about basketball and didn't know who any of these guys are, who would look better? Assuming they're all playing up to par and it isn't one of Kobe's 81 point outings or 6/27 games, I would say Lebron would be the best as he's impacting more things on the floor and it gets pretty muddled after that.

[Norcaliblunt]

Lmao at dudes saying they always knew Lebron was best but were too emotional and Stanned out for other players to admit it. Lol.

Like we are supposed to trust your judgment now? Shits too funny.

[BallsOut]

Lmao at dudes saying they always knew Lebron was best but were too emotional and Stanned out for other players to admit it. Lol.

Like we are supposed to trust your judgment now? Shits too funny.

Yeah they sound like pu$$ies now lol

[BigShotBob]

Anyone that knew basketball said that in 2009 Lebron was talented and great but he lacked skill. 2011 proved his detractors right.

Overtime Lebron has improved his ability to score outside of the paint but he's still a pedestrian all-time mid-range jump shooter at around 38% for his career. Can't imagine the "GOAT" not being able to have a reliable jumpshot for for an entire career.

Lebron has also been heliocentric and turnover prone and takes possessions off on defense....this hasn't changed. He still can't play in a system, he still leads all time in turnovers, and he still doesn't have the same defensive motor as some other greats like Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan and MJ.

He's great but not the GOAT.

Sorry.

top 10 maybe top 5. That's it.

[Airupthere]

Anyone that knew basketball said that in 2009 Lebron was talented and great but he lacked skill. 2011 proved his detractors right.

Overtime Lebron has improved his ability to score outside of the paint but he's still a pedestrian all-time mid-range jump shooter at around 38% for his career. Can't imagine the "GOAT" not being able to have a reliable jumpshot for for an entire career.

Lebron has also been heliocentric and turnover prone and takes possessions off on defense....this hasn't changed. He still can't play in a system, he still leads all time in turnovers, and he still doesn't have the same defensive motor as some other greats like Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan and MJ.

He's great but not the GOAT.

Sorry.

top 10 maybe top 5. That's it.

Well said

[bizil]

Thing with Mike is he was the ULTIMATE ASSASSIN!!! While also being a DPOY defender. MJ is the best TWO WAY perimeter player ever for these reasons. From there, was a legit great scorer, passer, rebounder, and defender for his position. He got a 30-8-8 season BEFORE Pip came of age. Plus MJ could LEGIT play and defend PG, SG, and SF at great levels.

So for THESE REASONS, give me MJ on a peak-prime level. Sure Bron is a BETTER all around player. Because he can play more positions two way wise and is a superior triple double threat. While also being a great scorer himself. But MJ being the ULTIMATE ALPHA DOG while having the epic all around game himself is too hard to pass up in my opinion. If Pip NEVER comes of age back in the day, MJ would have had WAY MORE TRIPLE DUBS! That's where he was taking his game in an effort to the get the Bulls to the next level.

And on a GOAT level, MJ is the GOAT team athlete in American sports. He's just not the GOAT in the NBA! So for those who think Bron is the GOAT in the NBA, ARE YOUR PREPARED to say Bron is the GOAT in American team sports??? Over MJ and Brady??? Bron's is on the Mt. Rushmore for sure. But as of now, I can't say Bron is the GOAT in American team sports. Could he get there one day? We shall see!

[bizil]

Another thing to keep in mind is the scoring help Bron has had throughout his career:

Wade
AD
Kyrie
Bosh
Love

All guys in the prime of their careers. The top two scorers MJ EVER PLAYED WITH were Pippen and Orlando Woolridge! That's part of the MJ mystique AS WELL! Of the top 10 GOAT guys other than him (Bron, Cap, Magic, Russ, Wilt, Shaq, Kobe, Timmy, Bird), MJ played with the LEAST AMOUNT of scoring help!!! Even for those guys in the 15-20 range (Dream, Steph, KD, Oscar, West, Moses, Mailman, Doc, etc.), MJ STILL played with the least amount of scoring help! So the fact is MJ NEVER played with a great scorer in the prime of their career!! That shit MATTERS and is RARELY TALKED ABOUT on all these TV shows!

[Full Court]

Anyone that knew basketball said that in 2009 Lebron was talented and great but he lacked skill. 2011 proved his detractors right.

Overtime Lebron has improved his ability to score outside of the paint but he's still a pedestrian all-time mid-range jump shooter at around 38% for his career. Can't imagine the "GOAT" not being able to have a reliable jumpshot for for an entire career.

Lebron has also been heliocentric and turnover prone and takes possessions off on defense....this hasn't changed. He still can't play in a system, he still leads all time in turnovers, and he still doesn't have the same defensive motor as some other greats like Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan and MJ.

He's great but not the GOAT.

Sorry.

top 10 maybe top 5. That's it.

This is spot on.

[DidUSaySomethin]

Lebron has also been heliocentric and turnover prone and takes possessions off on defense....this hasn't changed. He still can't play in a system, he still leads all time in turnovers, and he still doesn't have the same defensive motor as some other greats like Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan and MJ.

lebron has a better assist-to-turnover ratio than all the top 10 all time players except magic and curry

[Full Court]

lebron has a better assist-to-turnover ratio than all the top 10 all time players except magic and curry

Like assists magically make up for having the most turnovers of all time....:roll:

[3ba11]

Lebron beat 4 more conference finals teams (2nd Round winners), while Jordan beat 2 more Finals teams (conference finals winners), aka Jordan beat better comp.. And Lebron's conference victories occurred after he took the top 3 first options in the conference and put them on 1 team (the "decision")


https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-09-2023/K9U1HQ.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-09-2023/dzqXuj.gif

[kawhileonard2]

If he felt that he wouldn't had switched teams 5x and stacked the deck.

[Airupthere]

If he felt that he wouldn't had switched teams 5x and stacked the deck.

Boom! :applause: :roll: Self-proclaimed kings have no business leaving their fort.

[Spurs m8]

Boom! :applause: :roll: Self-proclaimed kings have no business leaving their fort.

Cvnt was beheaded in 2007

And then dismembered in 2011

Nothing about this guy is King

I even left out the bronze saga

[Axe]

Lebron beat 4 more conference finals teams (2nd Round winners), while Jordan beat 2 more Finals teams (conference finals winners), aka Jordan beat better comp.. And Lebron's conference victories occurred after he took the top 3 first options in the conference and put them on 1 team (the "decision")


https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-09-2023/K9U1HQ.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-09-2023/dzqXuj.gif
With or without scottie pippen?

[Spurs m8]

The more I think about this quote, the funnier it is :roll::roll::roll::roll:

[Full Court]

Cvnt was beheaded in 2007

And then dismembered in 2011

Nothing about this guy is King

I even left out the bronze saga

Remember just a couple games ago, when he was shriveled up on the floor crying because a call didn't go his way?

:roll:

That's who these clowns choose as their hero.

:lebroncry:

[Spurs m8]

Remember just a couple games ago, when he was shriveled up on the floor crying because a call didn't go his way?

:roll:

That's who these clowns choose as their hero.

:lebroncry:

Yes.

Then sat the next game out after he injured his ankle slipping on his tears

You cannot make this shit up

[nineiron]

With or without scottie pippen?

for Lebron, with or without Wade, Kyrie, Love, AD, Bosh, Allen?

[Airupthere]

for Lebron, with or without Wade, Kyrie, Love, AD, Bosh, Allen?

So many names to remember. Branstans' heads can't take it. :oldlol:

[ILLsmak]

He isn’t.

not wrong to feel like it, tho. I feel like it when I play games I'm good at haha. If people wanna dissect things, they can dissect it after they take the L!

But yea... he didn't need to go into such detail. He could have even said I don't think there's ever been someone like me, and leave it open ended, and gotten respek. LeBron has a bad pr team.

Edit: nvm, maybe it's me haha.

-Smak

[ImKobe]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Foa9dC-XEAEk6tI?format=jpg&name=small