Rank these players at their best: Dennis Rodman, Draymond Green, Joakim Noah

[Im Still Ballin]

Title.

Was looking up some prime Joakim Noah highlights. Man, wasn't he a unique player at his best? Here's a crazy fact: he finished 4th in the 2014 MVP. Was an All-Star, 1st team All-NBA, and DPOY that season. He was the best player on that 48-win team.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDqdkKahC3U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-LL6YFFyeY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YezCjXuDuQ

[Im Still Ballin]

The mother****er's got game too. He married a supermodel last year.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhjMZC9WvfAKttWk6N4YxCQEjgrA3g-iZsdBzc2Nm7Q-NmO8ptH6EXMZxxlJbuqcHPmnc&usqp=CAU

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/newspress-collage-23066025-1657892757989.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&1657878969

[SouBeachTalents]

Noah's definitely last. If forced to pick, I think Dray in 2016 was better than Rodman at his best.

[Im Still Ballin]

Noah's definitely last. If forced to pick, I think Dray in 2016 was better than Rodman at his best.

Do you feel like prime Noah would be better in today's game? The extra shooting would open up more passing lanes and opportunities. Could see him get 6-7 assists per game. I feel like he'd be a poor man's Sabonis on offense but with DPOY-level defense.

[Im Still Ballin]

Maybe the best game of his career? 23 points, 11 rebounds, 8 assists, 3 steals, 5 blocks. (9-15 FG, 5-6 FT). Only 2 turnovers!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHj7vTigCkU&ab_channel=AliProductions

[iamgine]

I think Dennis Rodman is vastly overrated. People look at his rebound numbers and stellar defensive reputation and think he must have this huge, superstar like impact.

His best season was in '91-'92. Pistons only won 48 games with Dumars, Thomas, etc. 5th in the East. Guys like Larry Nance or Horace Grant was better than Rodman but who remembers Larry Nance? Nobody.


Rodman's way below the level of peak Green.

[warriorfan]

The mother****er's got game too. He married a supermodel last year.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhjMZC9WvfAKttWk6N4YxCQEjgrA3g-iZsdBzc2Nm7Q-NmO8ptH6EXMZxxlJbuqcHPmnc&usqp=CAU

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/newspress-collage-23066025-1657892757989.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&1657878969

daymn ��

2014 noah is a sleeper. he was part of my 5 of that fantasy draft we had where I mopped up every team hard, even the dream team got swept

off the top my head I think it was

steph
carter/thompson
AK47
KG
Noah

your bully ball team was interesting. i thought the sim didn’t give it a fair shake. there were intangibles they couldn’t quantify

simon’s team was the funniest shit though, dude picked yao ming and elgin baylor, was the worst team and most low iq shit i have ever seen :roll:

[Im Still Ballin]

I feel the gap between Draymond and Noah is closer than some suggest. Both are players whose impacts largely depend on who they're playing with - even more than other players. Playmaking is a big part of their games.

Imagine if they switched places: would Draymond have the same impact passing to Mike Dunleavy, Kirk Hinrich, and DJ Augustin? What if Joakim was throwing those backdoor cut passes and dribble hand-offs to Steph and Klay?

[Im Still Ballin]

Some extra context regarding the 2014 season:

- Started the season 12-18
- The offense was guard-centric
- Noah became more of a focal point on offense/ran through him
- Finished the season 36-15 (58 win-pace)
- Team offensive rating jumped +5 points
- Averaged 13.6 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.7 bpg on 2.7 topg (54.05% TS)



I will agree though that peak Noah deserves his respect for what he accomplished that season on 2013-14. That season's Bulls team was traaaaaaash. Look at this roster: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2014.html

I would nearly equate it to Draymond having to play with no Curry and no Klay, since Deng and Rose were out. It started terribly, with the Bulls sitting at 12-18 30 games into the season. Thibs was basically still trying to run his Rose-centric offense with replacement parts, and it sucked.

At that point, Thibs basically said "This is Noah's team", and changed the whole scheme to run through him.

Noah's Bulls from there forward went 36-16, their offensive rating improved by almost 5 points, their defense stayed league-leading, and Noah averaged 13.5/12/7 the rest of the way, with 8 games of 10+ assists. Top of the league in most advanced stats, rightfully won the DPOY, first team all-NBA, all-star, and earned himself those MVP votes (4th place).

So if you wanted to say "I think Noah 2013-14 season was better individually than any of Dray's seasons", I wouldn't argue with that. Noah proved he was a floor-raiser and competitor even with his stars out, something Dray did not do when given the chance in 2019-20 in a similar situation.

However, this does also ignore the coaching and front office, with Thibs/Bulls pushing to win and Kerr/Warriors embracing the tank.

And no matter what, I'm pretty sure winning ANOTHER championship with everyone healthy this past year kind of absolves the shitty 19-20 season. Dray has nothing to prove to anyone at this point.

[Im Still Ballin]

Continued.



After starting 15 different lineups in the first 33 games of the season, they've only started four in the 45 games since. The starting five of Kirk Hinrich, Jimmy Butler, Mike Dunleavy, Carlos Boozer and Noah have now started 21 consecutive games. That's the longest run of the same starting five in the Thibodeau era.

Health is a big part, but it also has a lot to do with Noah's expanding skills. Thibodeau redesigned the offense to go through Noah from the elbow, and his remarkable passing ability for a big man was put on full display.

Noah has six 11-assist games since Feb 6, a 30-game stretch. All other NBA centers combined have only 27 such games in the last 30 years.

And, in the more important aspect of winning, the Bulls have turned around in the re-imagined offense. Since the Luol Deng trade, they are 32-14, the best record in the Eastern Conference. The only team in the NBA with more wins in that span is the San Antonio Spurs.

Noah also took over the transition game, which is better explained by this fantastic compilation, courtesy of Sports Illustrated’s Rob Mahoney, than by words alone.

The Bulls have had the best defense in the NBA over that span. And while their offense is still only the 25th most efficient, it’s notching 5.5 more points per 100 possessions since being run through Noah. And, both the offense and the defense are close to two points per 100 possessions better when Noah’s on the court.

Noah has established himself as something no one thought he could be—a player who can carry a contender. The winning speaks for itself. As a result, he’s not only emerged as a top-five candidate for MVP, he’s made “point center” a term in the process.

Here’s perhaps the most remarkable summation of Noah’s achievement this year: He has 956 points, 398 assists and 849 rebounds. In the history of the NBA, the only other centers to do that are Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell. That’s what we in basketball circles refer to as "elite company."

[RRR3]

Don't think people ever realized how good Noah was tbh. Was on pace to be in the HOF after his 2014 season. But alas injuries meant that ended up being his last season as an elite player.

[Im Still Ballin]

Don't think people ever realized how good Noah was tbh. Was on pace to be in the HOF after his 2014 season. But alas injuries meant that ended up being his last season as an elite player.

True. Can only imagine how that version of Noah would look in today's game.

I can see him doing something like 15 ppg, 12 rpg, 7 apg, 1.5 spg, 2.0 bpg on 53-55% FG and 70-75% FT. Stick him on a team with great shooters and cutters.

Switch him for Nurkic and that Portland team is a contender. Or at least a 55+ win team. Imagine him anchoring that defense and passing to guys like Lillard, Simons, Grant, and Hart.

[Patrick Chewing]

It's Rodman, and then there's everyone else. Rodman was retired from the league by the time most of these kids on this site were born.

The closer comparison to Rodman should be Ben Wallace.

[ArbitraryWater]

prob peak Noah first right?

Just the most game.

Baiscay led 2 straight 1st seeded teams.

[And1AllDay]

Noah's definitely last. If forced to pick, I think Dray in 2016 was better than Rodman at his best.

+1

[L.Kizzle]

I think Dennis Rodman is vastly overrated. People look at his rebound numbers and stellar defensive reputation and think he must have this huge, superstar like impact.

His best season was in '91-'92. Pistons only won 48 games with Dumars, Thomas, etc. 5th in the East. Guys like Larry Nance or Horace Grant was better than Rodman but who remembers Larry Nance? Nobody.


Rodman's way below the level of peak Green.
I somewhat agree. Rodmans bad boy image of the mid-late 90s put him over the top. He gets remembered more for his Bulls days but he was better as a Piston. He was All-Star and All-NBA as a Piston. As a Bull he wasn't even a full time starter.

He didn't make the NBA at 50 list (wasnt even considered on of the snubs) but somehow he makes the NBA at 75 list.

He wasn't even a first ballot Hall of Famer. I think he got in on they 3.

[Im Still Ballin]

Another great Joakim performance.

30 points, 23 rebounds (10 offensive), 6 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, only 2 turnovers (12-19 FG, 6-7 FT)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdj2nmoxD3g&ab_channel=DO%27sHighlightWorld

[L.Kizzle]

Don't think people ever realized how good Noah was tbh. Was on pace to be in the HOF after his 2014 season. But alas injuries meant that ended up being his last season as an elite player.
He was cool, he definitely wasn't on pace to be no HoF'er. If he was on pace for the Hall, so was DeAndre Jordan.

[bizil]

I gotta take Dray. A point power forward type who is ALSO a positionless type of defender. So he can come close to matching defense versatility with Rodman. Even though I consider Dennis the better defender. And or course better rebounder. But Rodman CAN'T TOUCH Draymond scoring wise or Dray's positional versatility on offense. Dray's overall floor game (passing, rebounding, defense as a package) is among the top five PF's of all time. In that mix with KG, Giannis, Duncan, etc. His versatility TOTALLY unlocked Golden State. NONE of the guards have to worry about being the main facilitator when Dray is on the court. And he allows them to play small ball BECAUSE he can defend much bigger players effectively. Plus he can STILL SWITCH OUT on the perimeter players. Dray brings much more to the table than Dennis or Noah.

[Im Still Ballin]

He was cool, he definitely wasn't on pace to be no HoF'er. If he was on pace for the Hall, so was DeAndre Jordan.

He physically fell apart after 2014 - wasn't the same guy. He needed a few more of those 2014-type seasons. Let's also not forget that he was a 2x national champion in college.

There's a multiverse simulation where his body doesn't break down and he maintains that 2014 play until 2018. Add 3-4 extra all-star appearances, 2-3 more All-NBA teams, and 1-2 more DPOYs. Chicago continues to have team success with Jimmy and Joakim up until 2018.

- 5-6 All-Star appearances
- 3-4 All-NBA teams
- 2-3 DPOY awards
- 2x National Champion at Florida

Yeah, maybe with all that he still wouldn't be a HOFer. But let's be real: if he played on GSW instead of Draymond, he'd be a 1st-ballot HOFer. Just like Dray is now.

[BigShotBob]

Neither are above Rodman imo