Does Giannis have a GOAT-level peak?

[dankok8]

His numbers look very competitive vs. the best offensive big men in history like Kareem and Shaq and he's even better than Kareem on defense.

I think if Giannis can win a few more titles, he will get GOAT consideration.

[RRR3]

You can’t compare modern day numbers with the past. Giannis has a usage percentage of 39% that’s absolutely batshit. Not to mention the pace and rules geared towards making scoring easier. And the fact that he gets more free throws than peak Shaq. When has Giannis been the unquestioned best player in the league? I don’t think he ever has. Everyone with a GOAT peak has been the unquestioned best during their peak.

[Phoenix]

Comparing 2023 numbers against those names you mentioned is pointless. How good is he compared to his peers numbers/dominance wise is the conversation.

[Im Still Ballin]

A GOAT talent. What's an accurate comparison? Like David Robinson, but with an Orlando Shaq physicality?

[Phoenix]

A GOAT talent. What's an accurate comparison? Like David Robinson, but with an Orlando Shaq physicality?

Even that is contextual. Orlando Shaq was facing bigger frontline players in the paint, who were allowed to be more physical with him. Having seen all of Shaq's career and now Giannis....there was an inevitability about 2000 Shaq that I don't think Giannis quite evokes.

[3ba11]

Pure scoring ability is required to have GOAT consideration, not just athletic talent, hence Kareem is the only big that gets consistent GOAT consideration above athletic talents like Wilt, Shaq, Lebron or Giannis.

The results follow this pattern with pure scorers like Curry, MJ, Kobe, or Bird yielding the highest team ceilings/Finals records, so Giannis won't have the results to have GOAT consideration just like Wilt, Shaq or Lebron.

[Axe]

Pure scoring ability is required to have GOAT consideration, not just athletic talent, hence Kareem is the only big that gets consistent GOAT consideration above athletic talents like Wilt, Shaq, Lebron or Giannis.

The results follow this pattern with pure scorers like Curry, MJ, Kobe, or Bird yielding the highest team ceilings/Finals records, so Giannis won't have the results to have GOAT consideration just like Wilt, Shaq or Lebron.
1-9

[Phoenix]

Let's see if 3nutball makes it till Friday before getting banned again.

[tontoz]

At age 28 he has 2 MVPs, a FMVP and a ring which puts him in elite company. He is also a stats monster.

MJ didn't win his first ring until he was 28.

[SouBeachTalents]

At age 28 he has 2 MVPs, a FMVP and a ring which puts him in elite company. He is also a stats monster.

MJ didn't win his first ring until he was 28.
DPOY too.

[FultzNationRISE]

A GOAT talent. What's an accurate comparison? Like David Robinson, but with an Orlando Shaq physicality?


GOAT level specimen perhaps. I dont think you can really call him a GOAT talent when guys like Bron, Shaq, Hakeem, DRob had the same size and athleticism but much more natural ball talent. He’s clearly a level below GOAT “talent.”

[Phoenix]

He's not more 'talented' than David Robinson either. Admiral was a more skilled player with the same level of physical ability. His game didn't translate as well to the playoffs as Giannis has shown the last 2-3 years, so he'll likely go down as the higher ranked player. The relative lack of physicality in today's game would serve Admiral better now than it did in the 90's.

[3ba11]

Let's see if 3nutball makes it till Friday before getting banned again.


I obviously don't give a shit about getting banned, genius

[dankok8]

You can’t compare modern day numbers with the past. Giannis has a usage percentage of 39% that’s absolutely batshit. Not to mention the pace and rules geared towards making scoring easier. And the fact that he gets more free throws than peak Shaq. When has Giannis been the unquestioned best player in the league? I don’t think he ever has. Everyone with a GOAT peak has been the unquestioned best during their peak.

This is something that I would write LOL. And I agree.

Thing is even adjusting for some era factors like using Per 75 numbers and relative TS he's still on par or close offensively while being the better defender. Giannis is IMO the best player in the league the last 3-4 years. It's not unanimous because his game is ugly but maybe it should be. Or scratch that. It will be unanimous when he wins more. Players get elevated retrospectively all the time.

[Phoenix]

I obviously don't give a shit about getting banned, genius

I didn't say you did. I said let's see if you make till Friday. The mods figure you'd kill yourself if you couldn't post on here, despite saying you were done with the forum.

[SouBeachTalents]

I didn't say you did. I said let's see if you make till Friday.
He does care though, he's too much of a pusssy to even make a thread now :lol The mods have made him obedient and docile.

[Phoenix]

He does care though, he's too much of a pusssy to even make a thread now :lol The mods have made him obedient and docile.

Dare I say, the resident bitch?

[bizil]

Peak-prime wise, Giannis is the best PF EVER in my opinion. GOAT wise, of course Timmy still has the edge. BUT if Giannis stays healthy, I think it's a mere formality Giannis becomes the GOAT PF. Then from there, we gotta see how he lines up with icons such as MJ, Bron, Shaq, Kareem, and Magic when u include all positions. BUT AMONG the PF's, Giannis PEAK-PRIME WISE is the best of all time! He amped up what KG was doing in terms of motor, freak athletic ability, and scoring ability.

[SATAN]

His numbers look very competitive vs. the best offensive big men in history like Kareem and Shaq and he's even better than Kareem on defense.

I think if Giannis can win a few more titles, he will get GOAT consideration.

No he won't.

[1987_Lakers]

I obviously don't give a shit about getting banned, genius

Yea right. Is that why you haven't started a thread since you became unbanned?

We all know you would be spamming this place with garbage if you didn't have any restrictions.

[Phoenix]

Has 3bitch been put on a leash?

[ImKobe]

Relative to what he's done in his era, yes.

[BigShotBob]

Peak-prime wise, Giannis is the best PF EVER in my opinion. GOAT wise, of course Timmy still has the edge. BUT if Giannis stays healthy, I think it's a mere formality Giannis becomes the GOAT PF. Then from there, we gotta see how he lines up with icons such as MJ, Bron, Shaq, Kareem, and Magic when u include all positions. BUT AMONG the PF's, Giannis PEAK-PRIME WISE is the best of all time! He amped up what KG was doing in terms of motor, freak athletic ability, and scoring ability.

Giannis wouldn't look the same if the year was 1993 or 2003

[StrongLurk]

Giannis is part of the new era only, basically 2019 after. We can't compare to previous eras. So Giannis might have the GOAT-peak so far of the new era. He's competing with Jokic, Luka, even Embiid.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Giannis wouldn't look the same if the year was 1993 or 2003

This sentiment gets way overblown. Yeah his game would be slightly different obviously but he'd be the same freak. Barkley was 6'4 dominating in the paint back in his day. Giannis would dominate any and every era with his ball skills and athleticism

Stop with this nonsense..

[BigShotBob]

This sentiment gets way overblown. Yeah his game would be slightly different obviously but he'd be the same freak. Barkley was 6'4 dominating in the paint back in his day. Giannis would dominate any and every era with his ball skills and athleticism

Stop with this nonsense..

He'd be David Robinson tier at best is my point. Not bad but I don't see anyone making threads about David Robinson having a GOAT-level peak.

Giannis isn't winning MVPs and DPOYs in 1988 - 1996 let alone a championship or from 1996 - 2004. He lucked out with the era and lax rules

[Jasper]

era's come and go ///

If I would say a goat peak for my favorite player it would have to be compared to Tim Duncan's 4 chips.

If Giannis ever did that I would say best PF in the history of the game.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He'd be David Robinson tier at best is my point. Not bad but I don't see anyone making threads about David Robinson having a GOAT-level peak.

Giannis isn't winning MVPs and DPOYs in 1988 - 1996 let alone a championship or from 1996 - 2004. He lucked out with the era and lax rules

Robinson literally won an MVP, and gets praised on here for having a great peak.

And Giannis is more dynamic than him, better ball handler, shot creator, and passer. Better 1st option skillet. And if he grew up at the same time he'd adapt to the league the same way he adapted to this one.

[BigShotBob]

Robinson literally won an MVP, and gets praised on here for having a great peak.

And Giannis is more dynamic than him, better ball handler, shot creator, and passer. Better 1st option skillet. And if he grew up at the same time he'd adapt to the league the same way he adapted to this one.

I don't think Giannis would win one over Robinson was my point

Rules wouldn't allow him to travel up and down end to end like he constantly does now, bump into a player and then get a favorable call over and over again. He'd probably play a bit more traditional and he'd be more of a Shawn Kemp type except Kemp could actually shoot. His defense would be better but he gets away with a lot now due to the rules.

Yes Robinson had a great peak but like I said no one makes ridiculous threads like these about him

[SouBeachTalents]

He'd be David Robinson tier at best is my point. Not bad but I don't see anyone making threads about David Robinson having a GOAT-level peak.

Giannis isn't winning MVPs and DPOYs in 1988 - 1996 let alone a championship or from 1996 - 2004. He lucked out with the era and lax rules
He'd have a hard time winning MVP due to Jordan being around, but if mid 30's Malone was winning multiple MVP's, and Ewing with John Starks as his 2nd option was a shot away from winning a title, Giannis would certainly have a good shot at accomplishing both.

[Pointguard]

You can’t compare modern day numbers with the past. Giannis has a usage percentage of 39% that’s absolutely batshit. Not to mention the pace and rules geared towards making scoring easier. And the fact that he gets more free throws than peak Shaq. When has Giannis been the unquestioned best player in the league? I don’t think he ever has. Everyone with a GOAT peak has been the unquestioned best during their peak.

I don't recall Duncan having claimed unquestioned status but its prettty clear that in the last four years there is only one player capable of winning every major award each and every year. In todays game the great majority of all team defensive players are specialist but Giannis is a top 3 offensive player every year as well as being the top defensive guy. Is there another player you can call offensively dominant? Top 3 rebounder as well? And win a chip on top of that? Carry a team and performs great under pressure? Top 3 as a productive and proficient guy along with all of this. Who do you have that's rolling like that in any of the last four years. Not in this century.

[Pointguard]

Iverson was six foot tall and could consistently get to the basket. It's a super under-rated skill. Giannis can do it from 20 feet out. He's a bit more aggressive than any bigman on camera largely because of super atheticism and superior quick feet skills. Aggression and determination usually separates the greats from the rest of the pack. Shaq could do it with strength. Speed has its advantages in todays game.

[Charlie Sheen]

I don't think Giannis would win one over Robinson was my point

Rules wouldn't allow him to travel up and down end to end like he constantly does now, bump into a player and then get a favorable call over and over again. He'd probably play a bit more traditional and he'd be more of a Shawn Kemp type except Kemp could actually shoot. His defense would be better but he gets away with a lot now due to the rules.

Yes Robinson had a great peak but like I said no one makes ridiculous threads like these about him

None of this is true. You are just making stuff up to fit your predetermined conclusion.

Kemp was not a better shooter. Even if I agreed he was... that difference would not be big enough to mention. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/shawn-kemp-shot-chart

He travels all the time! He is only good because of the rules! These are the similar to the arguments people who didn't like Shaq would say to downplay how good he was.

Giannis is tremendously skilled. He would be one of the greatest players to ever play in any era.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fLiOwqEntZ8DCC_wX3jP9rctLHs=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7164731/post-game.0.gif

[BigShotBob]

None of this is true. You are just making stuff up to fit your predetermined conclusion.

Kemp was not a better shooter. Even if I agreed he was... that difference would not be big enough to mention. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/shawn-kemp-shot-chart

He travels all the time! He is only good because of the rules! These are the similar to the arguments people who didn't like Shaq would say to downplay how good he was.

Giannis is tremendously skilled. He would be one of the greatest players to ever play in any era.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fLiOwqEntZ8DCC_wX3jP9rctLHs=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7164731/post-game.0.gif

Nothing you said made any sense or addressed what I said.

Giannis is a career 35% shooter from 4-14 feet.

Shaq played a different game than Giannis entirely.

Sorry, but a "GOAT" offensive player isn't pedestrian scoring outside of the paint. That's just the way it is.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fLiOwqEntZ8DCC_wX3jP9rctLHs=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7164731/post-game.0.gif

[Pointguard]

Nothing you said made any sense or addressed what I said.

Giannis is a career 35% shooter from 4-14 feet.

Shaq played a different game than Giannis entirely.

Sorry, but a "GOAT" offensive player isn't pedestrian scoring outside of the paint. That's just the way it is.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fLiOwqEntZ8DCC_wX3jP9rctLHs=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7164731/post-game.0.gif

A scorer scores. Your qualifications will never change that. A shot at the rim is a premium above all other shots. In situations a three can be better: But Sure points are better than messy ones. Even Curry misses under pressure. If you have a proficient and productive shot chart it is what it is. Giannis made that way and is dominant at it.

[Pointguard]

Nothing you said made any sense or addressed what I said.

Giannis is a career 35% shooter from 4-14 feet.

Shaq played a different game than Giannis entirely.

Sorry, but a "GOAT" offensive player isn't pedestrian scoring outside of the paint. That's just the way it is.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fLiOwqEntZ8DCC_wX3jP9rctLHs=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7164731/post-game.0.gif

A scorer scores. Your qualifications will never change that. A shot at the rim is a premium above all other shots. In situations a three can be better: But Sure points are better than messy ones. Even Curry misses under pressure. If you have a proficient and productive shot chart it is what it is. Giannis made that way and is dominant at it.

[bizil]

Some posters DON'T UNDERSTAND that DOMINANCE AND RESULTS trumps skill! When it comes to Giannis, he's SO PHYSICALLY DOMINANT and versatile that he would have DOMINATED in the 80's and 90's. He's damn near the same size as Ewing, Robinson, and Dream. BUT Giannis is a positionless two way 7 footer. And his brand of handles and athletic ability is MORE ALONG THE LINES of a Bron. For all intents and purposes, Giannis the CLOSEST THING we've seen to a 7 foot version of Bron. I'm not saying it's an exact comparison.

But the way Bron dominated the SF spot with his scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, positional versatility, and freak athletic ability, Giannis HAS DONE THE SAME at the PF spot. That's why it was a MERE FORMALITY that Giannis would become the best player in the world at some point. As great as KD is (and has an argument as the best player in the world), Giannis's athletic ability and two way versatility give him the edge over the MORE SKILLED KD!

So in the 80's and 90's when players like Giannis were ever MORE RARE, he would have been HANDS DOWN the best PF on the planet. I won't go so far to say best player because u had MJ, Shaq, Dream, Bird, and Magic around at various points. Guys who I think were better OR at least would have a case being better than Giannis!

[SATAN]

I think half of you guys are utterly insane in the way you rate players.

[ArbitraryWater]

You can’t compare modern day numbers with the past. Giannis has a usage percentage of 39% that’s absolutely batshit. Not to mention the pace and rules geared towards making scoring easier. And the fact that he gets more free throws than peak Shaq. When has Giannis been the unquestioned best player in the league? I don’t think he ever has. Everyone with a GOAT peak has been the unquestioned best during their peak.

How many players woud be the unquestioned BITW with peak KD/Curry/luka/Jokic alive, and still prime LeBron?

Stupid argument.

[BigShotBob]

How many players woud be the unquestioned BITW with peak KD/Curry/luka/Jokic alive, and still prime LeBron?

Stupid argument.

Lebron is not in his prime anymore. KD has been injured for about 3 straight years, Curry for 2 straight, Luka is fat, and Jokic is the only consistent one.

None of their peaks have coincided with one another. So historically, a lot of players could be the unquestioned best during this era.

Stop embellishing.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron is not in his prime anymore. KD has been injured for about 3 straight years, Curry for 2 straight, Luka is fat, and Jokic is the only consistent one.

None of their peaks have coincided with one another. So historically, a lot of players could be the unquestioned best during this era.

Stop embellishing.

You just straight up made up every thing in that post and have the nerve to tell someone not to embellish :oldlol:

In 2019 Giannis competed for BITW with peak Kawhi/KD/Curry/Harden.
In 2020 Giannis competed for BITW with prime LeBron/Harden/Luka.
In 2021 Giannis competed for BITW with peak Curry/KD/Jokic/Luka, prime LeBron.
Same in 2022 and 2023 as 2021.

Get the **** outta here with your lies

[Charlie Sheen]

A scorer scores. Your qualifications will never change that. A shot at the rim is a premium above all other shots. In situations a three can be better: But Sure points are better than messy ones. Even Curry misses under pressure. If you have a proficient and productive shot chart it is what it is. Giannis made that way and is dominant at it.

I was going to reply to him, but I couldnot have said it any better than this :applause:

It is the irrational logic of a hater. This is what people did to Jordan before they were forced to acknowledge his greatness too. He is a ballhog. He would be a pedestrian scorer without the refs letting him carry the ball every step. I can see it so clearly because I was one of those haters against Jordan. Because I was a Lakers fan I was unwilling to accept anyone could be on Magic's level. And I was on the other side when people were hating Shaq for being too good. That's fine until you pretend you are being objective when you clearly have a strong dislike towards a player and it was the determining factor for your opinion of that player

[SATAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gThoOuKlUhM

Harden was being compared to Michael Jordan scoring wise at the time. You're all ridiculous.

:oldlol:

[BigShotBob]

You just straight up made up every thing in that post and have the nerve to tell someone not to embellish :oldlol:

In 2019 Giannis competed for BITW with peak Kawhi/KD/Curry/Harden.
In 2020 Giannis competed for BITW with prime LeBron/Harden/Luka.
In 2021 Giannis competed for BITW with peak Curry/KD/Jokic/Luka, prime LeBron.
Same in 2022 and 2023 as 2021.

Get the **** outta here with your lies

2019 Giannis loses to Kawhi and Fred Vanfleet and Siakim. Now imagine him trying to beat a real team with his limited game like the 90's Knicks or the 90's Seattle teams or the Shaq and Penny Magic. He wouldn't make it out.

2020 He lost to Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo but he got injured if I remember correctly so he gets a pass

2021 Lebron was not and is still not in his prime anymore, and his only real competition was KD not a 22 year old Luka (lol) And KD was still the consensus better player than him

Sorry but it's not the same.

Giannis in a league with prime/peak Magic, Bird, Isiah, Jordan, Shaq, Barkley, Malone, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, and Penny, among others would never win an MVP, DPOY, or a Title.

He's fortunate to be playing in a league that favors players barrelling into people and getting foul called and 0 defensive minded bigs. In the East the best defensive bigs he has to worry about is Embiid and Al Horford. In the West it's Gobert (who he will never play against in a 7 game series), and maybe Draymond Green.

Keep embellishing

[BigShotBob]

A scorer scores. Your qualifications will never change that. A shot at the rim is a premium above all other shots. In situations a three can be better: But Sure points are better than messy ones. Even Curry misses under pressure. If you have a proficient and productive shot chart it is what it is. Giannis made that way and is dominant at it.

His limited game is why he needs shooters and space around him to operate. In an era where players are forced to play in a crowd, you take away what makes him deadly. Even Karl Malone was a far, far more proficient scorer than Giannis outside of 10 feet.

He should be happy that he's playing in an era that has literally verbatim stated that the rules have changed to make scoring easier.

[RRR3]

Nothing you said made any sense or addressed what I said.

Giannis is a career 35% shooter from 4-14 feet.

Shaq played a different game than Giannis entirely.

Sorry, but a "GOAT" offensive player isn't pedestrian scoring outside of the paint. That's just the way it is.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fLiOwqEntZ8DCC_wX3jP9rctLHs=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7164731/post-game.0.gif
Shaq was pedestrian outside of the paint. At best. You gonna say he wasn’t a GOAT level offensive player? :lol

[Charlie Sheen]

Shaq was pedestrian outside of the paint. At best. You gonna say he wasn’t a GOAT level offensive player? :lol

I caught that too, but I was not going to spend my morning arguing with that poster. Gave pointguard the good post for his effort instead :cheers:

How do you write that sentence after mentioning Shaq in the line directly preceding it. :lol

[BigShotBob]

Shaq was pedestrian outside of the paint. At best. You gonna say he wasn’t a GOAT level offensive player? :lol

What did Shaq do efficiently in the paint that players like Gobert and Clint Capela can't?

Come on use your brain.

[Carbine]

Yes, because his peak included him being the best defender and a true #1 title winning option.

The few players in history that can claim that.... Are considered the GOAT peaks. So why not him?

He has to be right there alongside them

[PAOK]

What did Shaq do efficiently in the paint that players like Gobert and Clint Capela can't?

Come on use your brain.

I'd love to see Gobert or Capela trying to pull this off against a prime D Rob


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOzG7PJTmXA

[Axe]

What did Shaq do efficiently in the paint that players like Gobert and Clint Capela can't?

Come on use your brain.
Lol this is the reason why casuals like you will always be casuals.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Pointguard]

I caught that too, but I was not going to spend my morning arguing with that poster. Gave pointguard the good post for his effort instead :cheers:

How do you write that sentence after mentioning Shaq in the line directly preceding it. :lol:cheers:

[Pointguard]

His limited game is why he needs shooters and space around him to operate. In an era where players are forced to play in a crowd, you take away what makes him deadly. Even Karl Malone was a far, far more proficient scorer than Giannis outside of 10 feet.

He should be happy that he's playing in an era that has literally verbatim stated that the rules have changed to make scoring easier.
Giannis basically learned basketball in the NBA. Yet he did shoot 35% from three in his rookie year - that is Jokic career %. His game was nothing like it is now. He learned and he adjusted everything: his physique, his approach, his strengths. He is faster than all bigs - his game reflects that. He has superior foot movement - his game reflects that. He has the best first and second step and his game reflects that. He has the best combination of strength and quickness - his game reflects that. There is no power forward that is more productive or proficient as Giannis. If you are tall science would dictate that you stick to your advantages. The further you move away from the rim, your advantages diminish. Nobody plays competitive sports to relinquish their advantages. Dirk has made you guys forget basic fundamentals. You play to win the game, not to get acknowledged by Steph Curry on all-star weekend. Every player, since they were 4 years old, knows that if you can get to the front of the rim, you take that opportunity.

Do you even think its natural to stop at ten feet? Giannis has that intensity that greats have. He would have adapted his game. Giannis is the only guy who gets a wall (a triple team). That's a crowd with guys who have faster feet than in the 90's and 80's. My team had a sloth as their center and he was good for 24 ppg despite a crowded lane. There are going to be people who hate Giannis game and there are going to be people who hate Dirk's - its the same coin, Bud.

[BigShotBob]

I'd love to see Gobert or Capela trying to pull this off against a prime D Rob


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOzG7PJTmXA

But Giannis would be able to relentlessly bulldoze in the lane over and over again I guess like he can now

[BigShotBob]

Giannis basically learned basketball in the NBA. Yet he did shoot 35% from three in his rookie year - that is Jokic career %. His game was nothing like it is now. He learned and he adjusted everything: his physique, his approach, his strengths. He is faster than all bigs - his game reflects that. He has superior foot movement - his game reflects that. He has the best first and second step and his game reflects that. He has the best combination of strength and quickness - his game reflects that. There is no power forward that is more productive or proficient as Giannis. If you are tall science would dictate that you stick to your advantages. The further you move away from the rim, your advantages diminish. Nobody plays competitive sports to relinquish their advantages. Dirk has made you guys forget basic fundamentals. You play to win the game, not to get acknowledged by Steph Curry on all-star weekend. Every player, since they were 4 years old, knows that if you can get to the front of the rim, you take that opportunity.

Do you even think its natural to stop at ten feet? Giannis has that intensity that greats have. He would have adapted his game. Giannis is the only guy who gets a wall (a triple team). That's a crowd with guys who have faster feet than in the 90's and 80's. My team had a sloth as their center and he was good for 24 ppg despite a crowded lane. There are going to be people who hate Giannis game and there are going to be people who hate Dirk's - its the same coin, Bud.

Yes Giannis was very different his first couple years or so in the league than what he is now

Again, Giannis's true strength doesn't come from barrelling into defenders. That's why he's lead the league in careless charges.

I guess I have to spell it out for the posters here who want to pretend as if Giannis not having a reliable post game is also killing his advantages. Maybe if he learned how to do a dropstep into a post hook and then have a counter move to offset it, he'd be far more deadly. That would then open up for a 10-15 foot jumper that Embiid has taken to.

You can't build a wall when someone has deep positioning in the post.

And for all the posturing you wanted to put in your post about advantages and crowds with "faster feet" (not even remotely true) Giannis shot 9-21 last night. Bigs should never shoot that pedestrian especially in this era. I watched the entire Bucks and Sixers game last night and Giannis just doesn't have much in the way of an offensive arsenal to make the game easier for himself.

Dirk could actually post up. Giannis is virtually incapable of consistently posting up.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron is not in his prime anymore. KD has been injured for about 3 straight years, Curry for 2 straight, Luka is fat, and Jokic is the only consistent one.

None of their peaks have coincided with one another. So historically, a lot of players could be the unquestioned best during this era.

Stop embellishing.

No one should even respond to BigShotTroll after this post

[Pointguard]

Yes Giannis was very different his first couple years or so in the league than what he is now

Again, Giannis's true strength doesn't come from barrelling into defenders. That's why he's lead the league in careless charges.

I guess I have to spell it out for the posters here who want to pretend as if Giannis not having a reliable post game is also killing his advantages. Maybe if he learned how to do a dropstep into a post hook and then have a counter move to offset it, he'd be far more deadly. That would then open up for a 10-15 foot jumper that Embiid has taken to.

You can't build a wall when someone has deep positioning in the post.

And for all the posturing you wanted to put in your post about advantages and crowds with "faster feet" (not even remotely true) Giannis shot 9-21 last night. Bigs should never shoot that pedestrian especially in this era. I watched the entire Bucks and Sixers game last night and Giannis just doesn't have much in the way of an offensive arsenal to make the game easier for himself.

Dirk could actually post up. Giannis is virtually incapable of consistently posting up.

Maybe we should compare Dirk's efficiency to Giannis? You can't be serious. The only big that compares is the great Jokic.

Giannis the only player that changes directions within the last 1/2 second and rarely ever steps on somebodies feet. Please name another big that would dare try that? And he can do it at near top speed.

In the 80's and 90's they had big men coaches/camps. They obviously don't have them anymore but if they did... . Giannis isn't at his peak yet,

As far the wall, MJ's bulls used to do it on Barkley in the low post. It usually doesn't get done because you need one strong guy and two quick footed front court players. While Jokic and Embiid can post they don't do it much and Giannis does it much more lately and is much more imposing than those two or anybody else.