Durant with Four FMVP/Rings

[StrongLurk]

While tough, it's still possible for Durant to do this before he retires. I think if he does, he'd immediately vault into the top ten and maybe even the top five all time. People will give more legitimacy to his Warriors rings the more time that passes. Most people under thirty already have Durant ahead of Larry Bird. Hell, most people under twenty five are constantly shitting on even MJ saying his era was extremely weak and he would just be a regular elite player today.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm sure you said the same thing when he was on Brooklyn with Kyrie & Harden. Let's seem them play more than one game together before giving him two titles.

[StrongLurk]

I'm sure you said the same thing when he was on Brooklyn with Kyrie & Harden. Let's seem them play more than one game together before giving him two titles.

I'm not giving him anything.

[j3lademaster]

It's interesting to see how his GS rings will be perceived 10/20/30 years from now. 30 years ago was not nearly as well-documented, 30 years later we'll probably still have archives of KD's burner tweets.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's interesting to see how his GS rings will be perceived 10/20/30 years from now. 30 years ago was not nearly as well-documented, 30 years later we'll probably still have archives of KD's burner tweets.
I know a lot of the details get lost in time, but idk, I feel like it's going to be impossible to cover up the move he made to Golden State lol. Even the most casual fan will be able to see the Warriors won the title in 2015, then broke the win record in 2016 before he joined, then won another title after he left.

[ArbitraryWater]

Also OP:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497294-What-s-happened-to-the-Lakers-and-Nets-is-embarrassing

[BigShotBob]

I know a lot of the details get lost in time, but idk, I feel like it's going to be impossible to cover up the move he made to Golden State lol. Even the most casual fan will be able to see the Warriors won the title in 2015, then broke the win record in 2016 before he joined, then won another title after he left.

What's really going to happen is they're going to say that the 2016 Warriors weren't as good as their record if they blew a 3-1 lead. People already are retroactively trying to say that the Heat weren't "really that good" even though it was egregious

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Also OP:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497294-What-s-happened-to-the-Lakers-and-Nets-is-embarrassing

Lol yall remember OP's preds during COVID...

"Lakers will lose to Portland. MaRk My WoRdS!"
"Lakers DO NOT wanna see Denver"
"I'm a big LeBron fan, was just jixing everyone"

Flip flopping maniac :lol Complete exaggerator as well. No.. "most people under 30" don't have Durant over Bird all-time. Never mind "most 25 year olds" thinking MJ would just be a regular player. What a few niche and online nerds think isn't the majority.

[Gohan]

What's really going to happen is they're going to say that the 2016 Warriors weren't as good as their record if they blew a 3-1 lead. People already are retroactively trying to say that the Heat weren't "really that good" even though it was egregious

This, the media and fans been covering up for lebron. When in reality heat teaming up was just as bad and if not worse than the goldenstate bs. Its really like the difference between goku and vegeta.

[John8204]

What's really going to happen is they're going to say that the 2016 Warriors weren't as good as their record if they blew a 3-1 lead. People already are retroactively trying to say that the Heat weren't "really that good" even though it was egregious

Well that's really on Dwayne Wade's complete collapse, I don't know if we could call the Heat a top five team of the last 20 years.

As for Durant and his legacy...he needs a three-peat to really be taken seriously in the GOAT discussion. Failing in OKC, Brooklyn, and leaving a title winner in Golden State he can't just get a random one or two he needs to be on another dynasty and he needs that 5th ring that puts him in a special class.

[ImKobe]

The media isn't going to give him any props if he does this regardless. Lebron can join Wade's team and get 100% credit for his chips but KD can't do the same with Curry, and if he wins in PHX it's because CP3 and Devin Booker are the real leaders of that team.

[StrongLurk]

Lol yall remember OP's preds during COVID...

"Lakers will lose to Portland. MaRk My WoRdS!"
"Lakers DO NOT wanna see Denver"
"I'm a big LeBron fan, was just jixing everyone"

Flip flopping maniac :lol Complete exaggerator as well. No.. "most people under 30" don't have Durant over Bird all-time. Never mind "most 25 year olds" thinking MJ would just be a regular player. What a few niche and online nerds think isn't the majority.

:lol

[StrongLurk]

The media isn't going to give him any props if he does this regardless. Lebron can join Wade's team and get 100% credit for his chips but KD can't do the same with Curry, and if he wins in PHX it's because CP3 and Devin Booker are the real leaders of that team.

Lebron going to the Heat was not the same level as KD going to Golden State.

Also KD had literally just blown/choked a 3-1 lead TO Golden State in the WCF...and then joined them a few months later...it's just the worst look possible for someone of Durant's caliber player.

I do agree the media can't give Curry "4 rings" while also shitting on Durant's two rings. Curry is more popular and likeable, but I still think KD is slightly ahead of Curry all-time.

[ImKobe]

Lebron going to the Heat was not the same level as KD going to Golden State.

Also KD had literally just blown/choked a 3-1 lead TO Golden State in the WCF...and then joined them a few months later...it's just the worst look possible for someone of Durant's caliber player.

I do agree the media can't give Curry "4 rings" while also shitting on Durant's two rings. Curry is more popular and likeable, but I still think KD is slightly ahead of Curry all-time.

It kind of is, right? There were no super teams or stacked teams at the time, the Heat changed the balance of the entire league, and the EC was in a decline, so even though the Heat roster does not stack up to what GS had, it was still a similar type of move in terms of destroying the parity in the league. Bran didn't lose to Miami but he had the #1 seed in B2B seasons and the Cavs were going to be there for years to come with Boston declining.

Wade was certified with a FMVP title run of his own and was right there with Kobe & Lebron as the best player in the league, and Bosh was a legitimate star in his own right. But instead of burying Lebron for his move, the ESPN created the "Heat Index" and paraded them around like crazy after they won a title.

There's just no consistency with this shit. KD doesn't have as many friends in the media so he's going to get crucified no matter what happens. He endured all those years with Russ & no spacing in OKC and when he finally picked the best possible situation and delivered it was seen as a negative on his legacy. It will never sit right with me how even his own teammates in GS didn't back him up when they begged him to come there after blowing a 3 - 1 lead in the Finals. GS ****ed that situation up royally when they could have probably got another 2-3 titles out of the KD-Steph duo, even with the achilles injury.

[SouBeachTalents]

It kind of is, right? There were no super teams or stacked teams at the time, the Heat changed the balance of the entire league, and the EC was in a decline, so even though the Heat roster does not stack up to what GS had, it was still a similar type of move in terms of destroying the parity in the league. Bran didn't lose to Miami but he had the #1 seed in B2B seasons and the Cavs were going to be there for years to come with Boston declining.

Wade was certified with a FMVP title run of his own and was right there with Kobe & Lebron as the best player in the league, and Bosh was a legitimate star in his own right. But instead of burying Lebron for his move, the ESPN created the "Heat Index" and paraded them around like crazy after they won a title.

There's just no consistency with this shit. KD doesn't have as many friends in the media so he's going to get crucified no matter what happens. He endured all those years with Russ & no spacing in OKC and when he finally picked the best possible situation and delivered it was seen as a negative on his legacy. It will never sit right with me how even his own teammates in GS didn't back him up when they begged him to come there after blowing a 3 - 1 lead in the Finals. GS ****ed that situation up royally when they could have probably got another 2-3 titles out of the KD-Steph duo, even with the achilles injury.
You have literally no idea what you're talking about. LeBron got EVISCERATED after he went to Miami :oldlol: I've honestly never seen an athlete more unanimously criticized than he was after the decision went down. This is just proof you legitimately live in a different reality, where LeBron gets celebrated after he joined Miami, Westbrook doesn't deserve any criticism, and Ingram is better than Tatum.

[ImKobe]

You have literally no idea what you're talking about. LeBron got EVISCERATED after he went to Miami :oldlol: I've honestly never seen an athlete more unanimously criticized than he was after the decision went down. This is just proof you legitimately live in a different reality, where LeBron gets celebrated after he joined Miami, Westbrook doesn't deserve any criticism, and Ingram is better than Tatum.

It didn't last long. Of course he got murdered for The Decision and for choking in 2011 but everything went away after their first title. I'm obviously not including hacks like Skip Bayless & Bill Simmons in this because those guys will always hate Lebron.

KD always delivered for GS and his injury stopped a 3-Peat from happening, yet he still gets dissed for going there & winning while Lebron's titles in Miami count as much as anyone's (they should btw, I'm not against it).

Why tf did you think I was saying that they celebrated Bran's move initially anyway? Of course that wasn't the case.. Didn't think I needed to clarify that for you.

[ImKobe]

And again you're misinterpreting my points on purpose. I never said WB is blame-free, I just said that you're putting it all on him when he's a vet min player when there are bigger issues with the Clippers right now. Ingram is not better than Tatum this season for obvious reasons but I already touched on it 100x and said I just like BI's skillset more and think he's a more complete player.

[1987_Lakers]

KD always delivered for GS and his injury stopped a 3-Peat from happening, yet he still gets dissed for going there & winning while Lebron's titles in Miami count as much as anyone's (they should btw, I'm not against it).


Maybe because LeBron was clearly the best player in Miami while many people felt Curry was the best player in Golden State.

Similar to how people don't take Kobe's 5 rings seriously because he won 3 of them playing as a 2nd option.

[SATAN]

And again you're misinterpreting my points on purpose. I never said WB is blame-free, I just said that you're putting it all on him when he's a vet min player when there are bigger issues with the Clippers right now. Ingram is not better than Tatum this season for obvious reasons but I already touched on it 100x and said I just like BI's skillset more and think he's a more complete player.

This dude is really squirming :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Maybe because LeBron was clearly the best player in Miami while many people felt Curry was the best player in Golden State.

Similar to how people don't take Kobe's 5 rings seriously because he won 3 of them playing as a 2nd option.

"felt", what the **** does "felt" mean? KD was better than curry in the POs and in the Finals.. 2017 was kinda close because KD missed the first 2 games and Curry was awesome in them but again in the Finals Durant went ISO on Bran and put up historic numbers on his head and hit the dagger to secure 3 - 0 & the championship when Cavs were showing some signs of life in that one.

And if you're making the KB comparison then that should apply to Steph, as he's Kobe in this. If you're going to side with Steph here you better give KB the full credit for his rings too, but you won't.

[SATAN]

:roll:

[LeGoat4Life]

Durant was too sensitive and ****ed it up for himself

All he had to do was sign a max deal and stayed in GS.

If he was still in GS as of today, he would most likely have 5-6 rings already.

He could have just trolled all his twitter haters by winning year after year.

In 20-30 years, no one gonna care that he teamed up. The narrative will be that he was part of one of the greatest dynasties that could challenge MJ's bulls dynasty

[1987_Lakers]

"

And if you're making the KB comparison then that should apply to Steph, as he's Kobe in this. If you're going to side with Steph here you better give KB the full credit for his rings too, but you won't.

No, Shaq = Steph. Both got most of the defensive attention and made it easier for KD & Kobe. Only difference is Kobe was still a chucker in the Finals even with all the defensive attention on Shaq.

[ImKobe]

No, Shaq = Steph. Both got most of the defensive attention and made it easier for KD & Kobe. Only difference is Kobe was still a chucker in the Finals even with all the defensive attention on Shaq.

Kobe deferred to Shaq more in the Finals than in other series because of the match-ups lol. Tf are you even talking about at this point?

I guess what you're trying to say is that Steph is like Shaq in where KD had to carry him to the finish line in crunch time.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe deferred to Shaq more in the Finals than in other series because of the match-ups lol. Tf are you even talking about at this point?
This is what I'm trying to say.

Here are Kobe's finals stats

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%

2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%

2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%

2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%

2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%

2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%

2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%



Here are Kobe's game seven stats.

44.2 MPG

22.2 points

FG 38.9%

FT 67.3%

8 RPG

5 APG

1 SPG

1.3 BPG





Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.



22.3 PPG

5.8 RPG


3.5 APG

1.3 SPG

1.3 BPG

on a 50.3 TS

and his teams went 9-10 in those games.

[SouBeachTalents]

It didn't last long. Of course he got murdered for The Decision and for choking in 2011 but everything went away after their first title. I'm obviously not including hacks like Skip Bayless & Bill Simmons in this because those guys will always hate Lebron.

KD always delivered for GS and his injury stopped a 3-Peat from happening, yet he still gets dissed for going there & winning while Lebron's titles in Miami count as much as anyone's (they should btw, I'm not against it).

Why tf did you think I was saying that they celebrated Bran's move initially anyway? Of course that wasn't the case.. Didn't think I needed to clarify that for you.
I know you'll never be convinced otherwise, but the situations really aren't equivalent. The Warriors were winning at a historic rate before KD got there, they went something like 31-1 in games Curry played & KD didn't, and when he went down in 2019 they reeled off like 6 playoff wins in a row, including a sweep in the conference finals. Then to top it all off, they win AGAIN without him a couple years later :lol

Miami couldn't even survive one bad series by LeBron, and anytime they had to win without him, the Cramp game, the time he scored 7 against Indy due to shit officiating, the team collapsed without him. It's seriously not comparable :lol The Warriors have proven to be great without KD for multiple years, Miami, or any other team LeBron's played for, not the case.

[SATAN]

ImKobe (BronBron23) is absolutely furious.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe deferred to Shaq more in the Finals than in other series because of the match-ups lol. Tf are you even talking about at this point?

I guess what you're trying to say is that Steph is like Shaq in where KD had to carry him to the finish line in crunch time.

And this.

Warriors record without Steph in 2017-2019: 24-23
Without KD 28-10

Lakers record without Shaq from 2000-2004: 25-31
Without Kobe: 33-16

[Phoenix]

While tough, it's still possible for Durant to do this before he retires. I think if he does, he'd immediately vault into the top ten and maybe even the top five all time. People will give more legitimacy to his Warriors rings the more time that passes. Most people under thirty already have Durant ahead of Larry Bird. Hell, most people under twenty five are constantly shitting on even MJ saying his era was extremely weak and he would just be a regular elite player today.

Who is your top 5 now? And who would you be removing from it to put Durant on there?

[ImKobe]

I know you'll never be convinced otherwise, but the situations really aren't equivalent. The Warriors were winning at a historic rate before KD got there, they went something like 31-1 in games Curry played & KD didn't, and when he went down in 2019 they reeled off like 6 playoff wins in a row, including a sweep in the conference finals. Then to top it all off, they win AGAIN without him a couple years later :lol

Miami couldn't even survive one bad series by LeBron, and anytime they had to win without him, the Cramp game, the time he scored 7 against Indy due to shit officiating, the team collapsed without him. It's seriously not comparable :lol The Warriors have proven to be great without KD for multiple years, Miami, or any other team LeBron's played for, not the case.

By 2014 Wade was washed lol, but they were still good enough to get past Indy & Boston with Bosh injured in 2012 with Wade having some heroic performances as well. I'm not saying Miami was as good but it was a different era when they joined forces. 4 years down the line the team just wasn't as good relative to the rest of the league, but the East was a joke. They got destroyed even when Lebron was on the floor in that Spurs series. Houston was a flawed team with Harden's game not translating as well into the POs and Portland choked 3 or 4 double-digit leads in the WCF. It was clear once they faced an actual contender in Toronto that Steph just didn't have enough help around him with Durant injured. Steph obviously has more longevity than Wade so that's a different situation altogether.

GS was able to keep their core together & healthy while also S&Ting KD for important pieces that gave them a chance to win another chip and they had to go way into the luxury tax to make that happen. It's not like they had the same team minus KD. GS winning last year should not be used to take anything away from what Durant did in 2017 & 2018.

[BallsOut]

Durant is already ahead of LeBron all time. Durant won more championships than lost championships with superteams than LeBron did with his superteams. Another title just increases the distance between them

[SouBeachTalents]

Durant is already ahead of LeBron all time. Durant won more championships than lost championships with superteams than LeBron did with his superteams. Another title just increases the distance between them
I don't think that's true.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lol yall remember OP's preds during COVID...

"Lakers will lose to Portland. MaRk My WoRdS!"
"Lakers DO NOT wanna see Denver"
"I'm a big LeBron fan, was just jixing everyone"

Flip flopping maniac :lol Complete exaggerator as well. No.. "most people under 30" don't have Durant over Bird all-time. Never mind "most 25 year olds" thinking MJ would just be a regular player. What a few niche and online nerds think isn't the majority.

Guy is of the same mod as RRR3 aka existence is pain.

He perpetually downplays and lowers expectations of his personal favorites in order not to get his hopes up/be disappointed. He cant even stommach hoping/believing in something and potentially getting disappointed. Thats how weak he/they are. Theyd rather miss out on the wid ride and just use coping mechanisms.

Look here:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?509683-LeBron-with-cryptic-tweet/page4

downplaying possibilities, vouching hard for Kyrie

[kawhileonard2]

While tough, it's still possible for Durant to do this before he retires. I think if he does, he'd immediately vault into the top ten and maybe even the top five all time. People will give more legitimacy to his Warriors rings the more time that passes. Most people under thirty already have Durant ahead of Larry Bird. Hell, most people under twenty five are constantly shitting on even MJ saying his era was extremely weak and he would just be a regular elite player today.

He broke Lebron multiple times in the playoffs with equal teams.

[BigShotBob]

Well that's really on Dwayne Wade's complete collapse, I don't know if we could call the Heat a top five team of the last 20 years.

As for Durant and his legacy...he needs a three-peat to really be taken seriously in the GOAT discussion. Failing in OKC, Brooklyn, and leaving a title winner in Golden State he can't just get a random one or two he needs to be on another dynasty and he needs that 5th ring that puts him in a special class.

When you're going against teams in the East lead by Brandon Jennings, Monta Ellis, and Rodney Stuckey, as well as a young Paul George, Isiah Thomas and Avery Bradley, Paul Milsap and Al Horford, and Al Jefferson, etc, do you really need a healthy D-Wade?

Lebron's move to Miami destroyed the Eastern Conference. And they did it all did it on purpose. Literally wanted it to be as easy as possible. The media wants to forgive Lebron for it since he lost twice, once in 2011 and again in 2014 and because of him winning a title in 2016.

Mark my words in a few short years no one is going to blame KD for his move to Golden State. Could be as quickly as 2 or 3 years. All that's going be said was how the 73 win Warriors were not good and they gunned for a record only to blow a 3-1 lead.

And we're going to talk more about how the Warriors only won a title in 2015 because the Cavs were heavily injured. They had no business losing two games to Lebron, Dellavadova, and Tristan Thompson.

You're already hearing grumblings of this since KD's game is too undeniably great to both casual fans and experts to deny due to arbitrary reasons.

If he wins a title in Phoenix as the FMVP it's all over.

[DMAVS41]

Durant is already going to go down as a top 20 player ever. Some, wrongly in my opinion, already have him top 15 like Zach Lowe. Winning a title or two while playing great would push him up to the top 15 for me, but I bet the consensus would be top 10 above guys like Hakeem and even Kobe. I would just disagree unless he does something truly legendary to change my view of him.

He's great of course, all-time great, but he's done very little in his career to date that makes me think he deserves consideration for top 10 all-time. Maybe something he does on the Suns changes that.

[WhiteKyrie]

Durant is already going to go down as a top 20 player ever. Some, wrongly in my opinion, already have him top 15 like Zach Lowe. Winning a title or two while playing great would push him up to the top 15 for me, but I bet the consensus would be top 10 above guys like Hakeem and even Kobe. I would just disagree unless he does something truly legendary to change my view of him.

He's great of course, all-time great, but he's done very little in his career to date that makes me think he deserves consideration for top 10 all-time. Maybe something he does on the Suns changes that.
He’s better than Dirk though, for sure.

[John8204]

When you're going against teams in the East lead by Brandon Jennings, Monta Ellis, and Rodney Stuckey, as well as a young Paul George, Isiah Thomas and Avery Bradley, Paul Milsap and Al Horford, and Al Jefferson, etc, do you really need a healthy D-Wade?


You are glossing over the Celtics team with 3 top 75 players and a Hall of Famer. And with Lebron in Cleveland who was his best teammate....Likely everyone he played with(on first run) was below Ibaka. Wade and Bosh are okay...but how many playoff series did they win on their own?

[John8204]

He’s better than Dirk though, for sure.

Talent wise...sure he's a top ten player all-time. But I'll Dirk ahead of the Shaq's and Durant's of the world because he did what everyone hates on Lebron for. He stayed with one team took his team to the playoffs almost every season won a ring and made another trip to the finals.

[DMAVS41]

He’s better than Dirk though, for sure.

Sure, if you are playing pickup ball at the local gym.

In terms of leading a team and carrying a franchise...and getting the most of your help...I'll take Dirk quite easily based on what I've seen from Durant so far in his career.