coastalmarker99
03-22-2023, 06:27 AM
3ball repeats in thread after thread that MJ “made” Pippen and that Pippen wasn’t good at the start of his career
he mainly references 7.9 PPG in 88.
But Let’s walk a timeline.
He got drafted bc of what he did at all-star camps.
In Portsmouth, he dominated. 17-20 in 2 games.
Muggsy/Garland were there, didn’t do as well.
He got invited to a bigger event in Hawaii a week later.
In Hawaii, he was all tournament team, slam dunk contest winner and clutch in games. Reggie, KJ, Donovan, Reggie Lewis, all there. None were all-tournament.
Then he went to Chicago for an NBA front office camp, and dominated.
Up to the 5th pick. The same slot as Wade and Love.
Pippen held out his 1st year, and so, as a result, he played his first preseason game only TWO DAYS after joining Bulls camp.
In his 1st 2 preseason games, he scored 17 twice and dominated the 2nd game, with 7 RB, 5 ast and 4 steals. In 23-25 min.
Did MJ “make” him in two days?
This is a key point.
Pippen arrived on a Thursday after missing 10 practices.
On Saturday and Sunday, he played 2 games and scored 17 in each and in In low minutes.
Not 7.9.
He hadn’t even seen an NBA game yet.
He played in the 1st one he saw.
That preseason, teammates were raving.
His coach said he was clutch.
Scouts were calling him a star.
He was considered Hall of Fame material by Rick Barry, then an NBA TV analyst.
This guy seems legit, no?
This MJ development schedule is incredible.
Even though he outplayed Sellers, Pippen still didn’t start Collins didn’t start rookies.
His first 4 games, 3 weeks after joining camp:
Game 1: 23 min, 10 pts, 1 RB, 4 ast, 2 steals
Gm 2: 24 min, 11/8/4/0
Gm 3: 23 min, 8/3/5/3. Led team in assists
Gm 4: 29 min, 15/3/2/3
4-0.
If you prorate his FIRST WEEK to his career minutes per game (36 min, per-36):
Points: 16.0 (90% of NBA SF avg per-36 pts in 80s)
Rebounds: 5.5 (90%)
Assists: 5.5 (174%)
Steals: 3.0 (230%)
Lower points, but shooting 54% and game 4 was 103%.
Normal run rate Pippen. Just no MP.
This continued the full month of November.
The Bulls opened 12-3.
In a 38 min game in Boston, Pippen was 20/1/7 with 6 steals.
He even made a last shot vs GSW.
His progress was so astounding he got a full feature article (several pages) in Sports Illustrated in NOVEMBER.
Over his first month, Pippen’s per-36 MATCHED his career averages, outside of assists.
FG%, points, shot attempts, steals, blocks, offensive rebounds…all at or above his career averages.
This was the same guy just not getting minutes yet.
No “development” needed.
This whole 1st month is whitewashed by 3ball as it didn’t happen.
Then Pippen got hurt.
A thumb injury, and then the bigger back injury.
Pippen played through, bc the Bulls misdiagnosed the back injury.
He got surgery in the offseason, and had to find pain relief along the way.
Pippen covered this in his book.
To this day, 3ball criticizes Pippen for being “lazy.”
No, he was “70%.”
he only looked like he was a bum because he was hurt and played.
Even with all this, Pippen helped a lot in 1988.
He and Grant were considered the “main difference” in 88.
Pippen was named Player of the Game in the Winner Take All game 5 versus the Cavs, his 1st start.
In MJ’s first playoff series win, Pippen got the headlines.
As a rookie.
In 1989, the Bulls brought him back slowly. He didn’t start until 12/27 and only played 3 30 minute games prior to 12/31.
So…his chances of being an All Star in year 1 and year 2 were blown by injury.
In year 3, he made it. Same timing as Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Miller.
If you take just the games Pippen played 30+ minutes in his career, his 1st and 2nd-year activity nearly replicates the rest of his career.
When he was healthy enough to play 30 min in his first 2 years (and not benched with “nagging” injuries)…he was nearly the same guy.
So MJ didn’t “make” Pippen.
Pippen was an elite player from the 1st moment he stepped on an NBA court.
Did MJ help?
Sure. All vets do and Pippen helped MJ too.
This is all a bogus narrative.
Pippen was playing really well at the outset and His stats were impacted by injuries.
he mainly references 7.9 PPG in 88.
But Let’s walk a timeline.
He got drafted bc of what he did at all-star camps.
In Portsmouth, he dominated. 17-20 in 2 games.
Muggsy/Garland were there, didn’t do as well.
He got invited to a bigger event in Hawaii a week later.
In Hawaii, he was all tournament team, slam dunk contest winner and clutch in games. Reggie, KJ, Donovan, Reggie Lewis, all there. None were all-tournament.
Then he went to Chicago for an NBA front office camp, and dominated.
Up to the 5th pick. The same slot as Wade and Love.
Pippen held out his 1st year, and so, as a result, he played his first preseason game only TWO DAYS after joining Bulls camp.
In his 1st 2 preseason games, he scored 17 twice and dominated the 2nd game, with 7 RB, 5 ast and 4 steals. In 23-25 min.
Did MJ “make” him in two days?
This is a key point.
Pippen arrived on a Thursday after missing 10 practices.
On Saturday and Sunday, he played 2 games and scored 17 in each and in In low minutes.
Not 7.9.
He hadn’t even seen an NBA game yet.
He played in the 1st one he saw.
That preseason, teammates were raving.
His coach said he was clutch.
Scouts were calling him a star.
He was considered Hall of Fame material by Rick Barry, then an NBA TV analyst.
This guy seems legit, no?
This MJ development schedule is incredible.
Even though he outplayed Sellers, Pippen still didn’t start Collins didn’t start rookies.
His first 4 games, 3 weeks after joining camp:
Game 1: 23 min, 10 pts, 1 RB, 4 ast, 2 steals
Gm 2: 24 min, 11/8/4/0
Gm 3: 23 min, 8/3/5/3. Led team in assists
Gm 4: 29 min, 15/3/2/3
4-0.
If you prorate his FIRST WEEK to his career minutes per game (36 min, per-36):
Points: 16.0 (90% of NBA SF avg per-36 pts in 80s)
Rebounds: 5.5 (90%)
Assists: 5.5 (174%)
Steals: 3.0 (230%)
Lower points, but shooting 54% and game 4 was 103%.
Normal run rate Pippen. Just no MP.
This continued the full month of November.
The Bulls opened 12-3.
In a 38 min game in Boston, Pippen was 20/1/7 with 6 steals.
He even made a last shot vs GSW.
His progress was so astounding he got a full feature article (several pages) in Sports Illustrated in NOVEMBER.
Over his first month, Pippen’s per-36 MATCHED his career averages, outside of assists.
FG%, points, shot attempts, steals, blocks, offensive rebounds…all at or above his career averages.
This was the same guy just not getting minutes yet.
No “development” needed.
This whole 1st month is whitewashed by 3ball as it didn’t happen.
Then Pippen got hurt.
A thumb injury, and then the bigger back injury.
Pippen played through, bc the Bulls misdiagnosed the back injury.
He got surgery in the offseason, and had to find pain relief along the way.
Pippen covered this in his book.
To this day, 3ball criticizes Pippen for being “lazy.”
No, he was “70%.”
he only looked like he was a bum because he was hurt and played.
Even with all this, Pippen helped a lot in 1988.
He and Grant were considered the “main difference” in 88.
Pippen was named Player of the Game in the Winner Take All game 5 versus the Cavs, his 1st start.
In MJ’s first playoff series win, Pippen got the headlines.
As a rookie.
In 1989, the Bulls brought him back slowly. He didn’t start until 12/27 and only played 3 30 minute games prior to 12/31.
So…his chances of being an All Star in year 1 and year 2 were blown by injury.
In year 3, he made it. Same timing as Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Miller.
If you take just the games Pippen played 30+ minutes in his career, his 1st and 2nd-year activity nearly replicates the rest of his career.
When he was healthy enough to play 30 min in his first 2 years (and not benched with “nagging” injuries)…he was nearly the same guy.
So MJ didn’t “make” Pippen.
Pippen was an elite player from the 1st moment he stepped on an NBA court.
Did MJ help?
Sure. All vets do and Pippen helped MJ too.
This is all a bogus narrative.
Pippen was playing really well at the outset and His stats were impacted by injuries.