Jordan never had anyone

[Bacchus]

That could take over the scoring role? James had Wade, Irving & Anthony Davis.

[ShawkFactory]

Neither did you.

[SouBeachTalents]

And his team still won 55 games without him. Crazy.

[sdot_thadon]

Wnem he did in Washington, be shipped him off lol.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wnem he did in Washington, be shipped him off lol.

lol this

[Axe]

Kwame brown, jerry stackhouse, larry hughes and rip hamilton weren't enough for him to make the playoffs in the weakest eastern conference? :confusedshrug: :oldlol:

[John8204]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZXtXoqCVqk

Dude ran off an all-time great 33 year old George Gervin.

[Axe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZXtXoqCVqk

Dude ran off an all-time great 33 year old George Gervin.
Lmao a lot of kobe stans also adore jordan. Not this user tho. :lol

[Full Court]

Now I have Jordan ranked #1 all time, but what you're saying is a byproduct of Jordan being the best scorer the sport has ever seen, with the exception of maybe Wilt. He didn't need anyone else to take over the scoring role. That doesn't mean he didn't have help though. He had teammates who had outstanding defense, could rebound, etc. The Bulls really were a complete, well rounded team.


Now all that said, Lebron has had more high level help than anyone who's ever won a championship.

[kawhileonard2]

And his team still won 55 games without him. Crazy.

After 3 peating. Name another player who did that since 1980? Hell Lakers in 2003 after 3 peating started 12-19 the following year.

[kawhileonard2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZXtXoqCVqk

Dude ran off an all-time great 33 year old George Gervin.

Lebron ran off Dwight Howard, Rajon Rondo guys who beat him without HCA. He also ran off Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and all time leader in Triple Doubles at his peak. Jordan played like 18 games with Gervin who didn't play another season.

[3ba11]

And his team still won 55 games without him. Crazy.


The Bulls won 55 with only 22 ppg from the 1st option and a rebounder at 2nd option, so they won 55 via 3-peat chemistry, not talent.

Now imagine if prime Wade's 30 ppg with complete dominance ("Flash" Wade) was given a fully-grown, 3-peat dynasty that already had dynasty chemistry and system - he would do better than 2nd Round loser and borderline lottery in 95' or borderline .500 before MJ returned.

Pippen was gifted a fully-grown 3-peat dynasty and could never grow a team from infancy like 85' Jordan or 05' Lebron (1st options).. If Pippen was the 1st option on a baby team (so everyone is a worse scorer than Pip), the team would never grow out of infancy..

And that's what we saw with Pippen's Bulls - Pippen was driving the Bulls back to infancy by having a borderline lottery team in 95' before MJ returned.. So Pippen did the opposite of growth that we see from true 1st options - he destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery QUICKLY before MJ returned in 95'..

Then he confirmed that he's a system player by averaging 14 on 40% in 99' (after the system) just like he did in 89' (before the system).

[3ba11]

That could take over the scoring role? James had Wade, Irving & Anthony Davis.


Career Finals

Lebron........ 28 on 49%
Kyrie........... 28 on 47%
AD............... 25 on 57%

Jordan........ 34 on 48%
Pippen........ 19 on 42%


By definition, passers like Magic and Lebron need great scorers to pass to.. They need all-time scoring help, while great scorers can win with no passing help (Kobe won with this), or non-elite assists from sidekicks (MJ won with this).. So it's clear that great scorers need LESS help than great passers, who need all-time scorers at sidekick.

Furthermore, Lebron is the only guy with sidekicks that outplayed league MVP's, such as Kyrie destroying Curry, or Wade outplaying Dirk, or AD destroying Joker.

No one else had multiple sidekicks do that let alone 3 different ones

People forget that Lebron lost to a 1-star team as the massive favorite with Mo getting 18 on 38%, so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs vs good teams in 2 decades).. He's too ball-dominant at carry-job volume to beat top teams, so he needs all-time scorers like Wade, Kyrie or AD and can't win with the secondary producers that expert jumpshooters win with (Wiggins, Pippen, Terry, Lowry, Pau, Klay).

Essentially, passers like Lebron and Magic can't win with scoring and need "closers" (all-time scoring help).. In addition to being unable to carry bed-wetting sidekicks over top teams, Lebron needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention and can't defeat max defensive attention (can't carry scoring load on championship level).. Again, passers can't win with scoring and need all-time help to win (all-time scoring help).

[97 bulls]

The Bulls won 55 with only 22 ppg from the 1st option and a rebounder at 2nd option, so they won 55 via 3-peat chemistry, not talent.

Now imagine if prime Wade's 30 ppg with complete dominance ("Flash" Wade) was given a fully-grown, 3-peat dynasty that already had dynasty chemistry and system - he would do better than 2nd Round loser and borderline lottery in 95' or borderline .500 before MJ returned.

Pippen was gifted a fully-grown 3-peat dynasty and could never grow a team from infancy like 85' Jordan or 05' Lebron (1st options).. If Pippen was the 1st option on a baby team (so everyone is a worse scorer than Pip), the team would never grow out of infancy..

And that's what we saw with Pippen's Bulls - Pippen was driving the Bulls back to infancy by having a borderline lottery team in 95' before MJ returned.. So Pippen did the opposite of growth that we see from true 1st options - he destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery QUICKLY before MJ returned in 95'..

Then he confirmed that he's a system player by averaging 14 on 40% in 99' (after the system) just like he did in 89' (before the system).

So why didn't Jordan win with the great scorer and future Hall of Famer George Gervin? You can't answer it because any excuse you use can be applied to Pippen.

And again, Pippen didn't inherit a 3pt team because that team that 3peated didn't have its best player and they never replaced him competently. Jordan's number 3 was Pippens number 2. So Pippen had less to work with than Jordan.

[SouBeachTalents]

The Bulls won 55 with only 22 ppg from the 1st option and a rebounder at 2nd option, so they won 55 via 3-peat chemistry, not talent.

Now imagine if prime Wade's 30 ppg with complete dominance ("Flash" Wade) was given a fully-grown, 3-peat dynasty that already had dynasty chemistry and system - he would do better than 2nd Round loser and borderline lottery in 95' or borderline .500 before MJ returned.

Pippen was gifted a fully-grown 3-peat dynasty and could never grow a team from infancy like 85' Jordan or 05' Lebron (1st options).. If Pippen was the 1st option on a baby team (so everyone is a worse scorer than Pip), the team would never grow out of infancy..

And that's what we saw with Pippen's Bulls - Pippen was driving the Bulls back to infancy by having a borderline lottery team in 95' before MJ returned.. So Pippen did the opposite of growth that we see from true 1st options - he destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery QUICKLY before MJ returned in 95'..

Then he confirmed that he's a system player by averaging 14 on 40% in 99' (after the system) just like he did in 89' (before the system).
55 wins, without Jordan. Unprecedented. Virtually any other time a team lost a GOAT level player in their prime they either fell off dramatically or completely imploded. Yet the Bulls won 55, with Pippen & Grant missing 12+ games each, they won at a 60 win pace when both played. And they came within a notoriously bad call from knocking off their biggest rival, and would've been the favorites to make the Finals. Shows how great his supporting cast was.

And the 3peat chemistry is bullshit you made up lol. The '03 Lakers had 3peat chemistry and they won less games than the Bulls did without Jordan.

[John8204]

Lebron ran off Dwight Howard, Rajon Rondo guys who beat him without HCA. He also ran off Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and all time leader in Triple Doubles at his peak. Jordan played like 18 games with Gervin who didn't play another season.

Why are you bringing up Lebron in a Jordan thread? Gervin was a 20 PPG player and All-Star when he joined the Bulls, Howard, Rondo, and Russ were 4 seasons into their declines. But the topic isn't who had less to work with the topic is Jordan had nobody...that is simply a lie.

Which makes me a Kobe-Stan for some reason

[Manny98]

Today's teams are way more stacked though. Jordan didn't need anyone because he played in a weaker era with a lot less star power

[Axe]

Today's teams are way more stacked though. Jordan didn't need anyone because he played in a weaker era with a lot less star power
His team also won 55 games without him at one point lmao.

[Lebron23]

Today's teams are way more stacked though. Jordan didn't need anyone because he played in a weaker era with a lot less star power

Best posts so far in this thread.

[3ba11]

Today's teams are way more stacked though. Jordan didn't need anyone because he played in a weaker era with a lot less star power


You're wrong - today's teams aren't more stacked because guys like Giannis or various expert jmpshooters in today's game win without super-teams and secondary producers at sidekick like Lowry, Middleton, Wiggins, Pau, Klay, Pippen or Terry..

Only the ball-dominators (passers) like Lebron or Magic need someone great to pass to like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie, while the great scorers like Curry or MJ have always won with less help, regardless of era.

So you're looking at a couple super-teams like the KD-Warriors or Lebron's super-teams and somehow thinking that the entire era is like this when today's Nuggets, Bucks and Celtics rule the day (non-super-teams).. Today's game actually has a ton of parity where the best player (MJ) would have a big edge just like the 90's.

[RogueBorg]

So why didn't Jordan win with the great scorer and future Hall of Famer George Gervin?




Are you talking about the same George Gervin who didn't score a single point and took 1 shot in the series against Boston? That George Gervin?

Are you talking about the same George Gervin who played a total of 11 minutes out of a possible 154 minutes? That guy?

[BigShotBob]

So why didn't Jordan win with the great scorer and future Hall of Famer George Gervin? You can't answer it because any excuse you use can be applied to Pippen.

And again, Pippen didn't inherit a 3pt team because that team that 3peated didn't have its best player and they never replaced him competently. Jordan's number 3 was Pippens number 2. So Pippen had less to work with than Jordan.

Why couldn't Lebron win with Shaq?

And why are you lying? Kukoc wasn't even on the team before MJ left. How could MJ's number 3 be Pippen's number 2 if the player didn't even exist?

[FKAri]

That's sad. I hope he finds someone.

[97 bulls]

Are you talking about the same George Gervin who didn't score a single point and took 1 shot in the series against Boston? That George Gervin?

Are you talking about the same George Gervin who played a total of 11 minutes out of a possible 154 minutes? That guy?

Yes. It's my understanding that Gervin and Jordan didn't get along. Jordan could've lobbied to get Gervin on the court.

[97 bulls]

Why couldn't Lebron win with Shaq?

And why are you lying? Kukoc wasn't even on the team before MJ left. How could MJ's number 3 be Pippen's number 2 if the player didn't even exist?

Grant became the number 2 guy when Jordan left. He was the number 3 guy when Jordan was there. What does Lebron and Shaq have to do with the 94 Bulls? Or the 93 Bulls?

[Baller789]

His team also won 55 games without him at one point lmao.

They also went from a championship dynasty to a 2nd round exit.

[Axe]

While jordan was a first round fodder without him. Ouch.

[ImKobe]

Today's teams are way more stacked though. Jordan didn't need anyone because he played in a weaker era with a lot less star power

EC was a joke when Bran formed his superteams though. All the star power was on the other side of the Conference. Suns & Magic had star power and won nothing in the 90s.

[Bawkish]

While jordan was a first round fodder without him. Ouch.

Bron couldn't even get into play-in tourney

[Axe]

He actually did two years ago while jordan never made the playoffs with the wizards. :oldlol:

[TheMan]

He actually did two years ago while jordan never made the playoffs with the wizards. :oldlol:

:no:

No AD, no playoffs

Meanwhile AD is putting LA in position to get into the playoffs without, you guessed it, Bran :lol