Give me an idea of where you rank prime Rondo as a point guard.

[Kblaze8855]

It’s actually a little hard for me to say. He’s one of those weird guys who both feels like he was a really big deal but also like he was a role player for most of his career. He was only a four time All-Star but he was a good player for what? 10-11 years?

People argued him vs prime Chris Paul at one point. Let me try to make this simple…how many of these players in their primes are you taking prime rondo over?


Deron
Kemba
Baron Davis
Trae
Wall
Lowry
Conley
Tony Parker
Jrue
Billips


How many of those 10 do you take Rondo over?

[John8204]

He's a Hall of Famer so this is pretty easy

Tony Parker and Trae Young are the only two likely Hall of Famers of that group...

[L.Kizzle]

Life without the Boston Big 3 didn't treat him too well. I'd take them all over Rondo being honest. I'd take Rondo over Jameer Nelson tho.

[Xiao Yao You]

everyone over Baron Davis

[Real Men Wear Green]

In biased enough to take him over everyone but Billups and Young. And I bet he would bust Young all over the court head to head.

[Jasper]

if I am correct Rondo has one chip

So he is ranked below any PG's that have more than 1.

[Real Men Wear Green]

if I am correct Rondo has one chip

So he is ranked below any PG's that have more than 1.
That's a ridiculous way to rank them (is Derek Fisher top 5?) but FYI Rondo has 2.

[Kblaze8855]

That's a ridiculous way to rank them (is Derek Fisher top 5?) but FYI Rondo has 2.


I was thinking something similar but people who think that way are too far gone to reason with so I kept quiet.

[ShawkFactory]

I’d definitely take prime Deron and Billups over him. After that it’s honestly way tougher. Depending on the team I’m going Tony Parker, and probably Lowry as well.

Trae, Wall, and Davis are perhaps more spectacular individually but I don’t think I’d rather have them on my team. Because they’re probably going to need to be the best player, or close to it, on the team and I don’t know where that team is going if that’s the case. Rondo can more easily blend in.

I think he Jrue and Conley are the exact same tier and you could draw any of the them out of a hat for me and I’d be happy. If I already have a team together it would just depend on the type of team I guess.

I’d take him over Kemba in most situations.

[Xiao Yao You]

I was thinking something similar but people who think that way are too far gone to reason with so I kept quiet.

but you aren't that way? You have Boozer over Gobert because he went to the conference finals as their 3rd best pf :lol

[Kblaze8855]

That rate at which you obsess over and repeat things nobody ever said is pretty astounding. Having checked I’ve only even referenced them both in the same topic like 5 times and the original one you keep incorrectly referencing was me saying they won more in the playoffs and making no actual comparison between the two individuals. In fact in that same topic I said I’d take Deron and AK over both but no Boozer comparison at all.

Not that I’d care if I had. Boozer vs Rudy doesn’t matter. As a teams best player you’re just about equally doomed.

[999Guy]

Ranking as far as overall ability to affect a game, at their best.
Though, some of these guys have their own quirks and intangibles. Rondo himself was pretty damn good as a playoff player before his injury. And even after it, got better than he was in the RS, though his overall level of play declined.

Billups
Conley
Davis
Rondo
Lowry
Jrue
Wall
Parker
Deron
Trae
Kemba


Trae is having his best career year ever, main due to really cleaning up his mentally awful defense, but he gets really volatile against playoff defenses. I don’t think his game holds much title contending value yet.

Deron was a good offensive player who never actually scored well enough to really threaten a defense fundamentally. Meaning being consistently dominant scoring wise. His scoring was sparse and he didn’t thrive anywhere in particular. Underrated passer though. Mediocre defender.


Parker might be underrated by me a tad but he was a ball pounder who really was average passing wise. Unlike D-will, great as a penetrator but not nearly adept enough at passing to be a dominant offensive guy as opposed to just good. Meager situational shooter as well.


Kemba was a good offensive player, not great. Good volume shooting threat but no Lillard. Defensively weak until his offensive role got lower in Boston.


John Wall’s career post-injury really exposed how mentally feeble his game always was. Dumb mistakes and bad tendencies on both ends that he can’t get away with anymore, if he ever really did. Still, extremely good playoff player in his prime, because like I said, mentally he needed to clean things up, which he usually did in the postseason.

Big time gambler on defense, narrow passing habits. Loves the corner kick outs on his blazing drives, some lobs, and some pick and pop options, doesn’t really see the rest of the passing angles on the floor, and there are many. Still would scare the hell out of a lot of playoff teams that could underestimate him if they watched his sloppy film. Wanna give him credit for having dealt with bad knees for basically his whole prime too.

Yes, Conley is that good to me. His early 10’s peak is basically a less offensively explosive Chris Paul kind of thing going on. I could be overrating a bit but that’s my general impression. Haven’t looked into it in a little while.

Baron Davis was a defensive beast. Very underrated, very high level athlete. Inverse version of a lot of point guards as far as scoring and defense. Steady passer. Rare PG archetype.

Billups is the best offensive player here, with the highest peak in 09. Best player on Denver IMO when it comes down to it. His best defense was later in his career. In Detroit he had his best offense. Denver was the best mix of the two. Not a different class than the rest peak wise, but most consistent.

Lowry was fantastic in his mid 10’s peak. Could easily be underrating him.

The Davis Rondo Lowry Conley group can be shuffled a bunch of ways IMO. Confident in the rest.

[Xiao Yao You]

That rate at which you obsess over and repeat things nobody ever said is pretty astounding. Having checked I’ve only even referenced them both in the same topic like 5 times and the original one you keep incorrectly referencing was me saying they won more in the playoffs and making no actual comparison between the two individuals. In fact in that same topic I said I’d take Deron and AK over both but no Boozer comparison at all.

Not that I’d care if I had. Boozer vs Rudy doesn’t matter. As a teams best player you’re just about equally doomed.

the way you deny your bizarre arguments over and over is something else. They are hard to forget and I'm going to call you on your shit.. The Jazz made the finals because #8 seed upset #1 seed. Jazz wouldn't have beaten Dallas. The circumstances matter. Millsap and Kirilenko were better than the always injured awful defending Boozer. Not to mention it was Williams team so comparing Boozer to Gobert was just laughable. Sloan preferring Stockton/Malone lite doesn't change that

[Kblaze8855]

The funny thing about that is you thinking I’d feel a need to back away from any Gobert critique had I made it. I’m a lot better at this than you are. I don’t come across as an obsessed sycophant for anyone, so I don’t have the credibility issues you do. If I felt strongly about boozer being better, I would just say so and probably make you look bad while I explained it. As argumentative as I am, you should take me not choosing to start explaining why I think it as evidence that I don’t. It’s certainly not out of fear of anything you could say in opposition.

A Boozer or Rudy Gobert argument is like having a Joakim Noah or Zach Randolph one. Whoever you choose it’s probably not worth taking up your whole afternoon defending it. Whoever you pick if they’re your best player you peak around 50 something games and losing when it counts. And that’s if you give them another couple low end all stars to play with.

It doesn’t matter which of them leads you to nowhere. You’re getting there either way.

[Xiao Yao You]

The funny thing about that is you thinking I’d feel a need to back away from any Gobert critique had I made it. I’m a lot better at this than you are. I don’t come across as an obsessed sycophant for anyone, so I don’t have the credibility issues you do. If I felt strongly about boozer being better, I would just say so and probably make you look bad while I explained it. As argumentative as I am, you should take me not choosing to start explaining why I think it as evidence that I don’t. It’s certainly not out of fear of anything you could say in opposition.

A Boozer or Rudy Gobert argument is like having a Joakim Noah or Zach Randolph one. Whoever you choose it’s probably not worth taking up your whole afternoon defending it. Whoever you pick if they’re your best player you peak around 50 something games and losing when it counts. And that’s if you give them another couple low end all stars to play with.

It doesn’t matter which of them leads you to nowhere. You’re getting there either way.

You just said "I was thinking something similar but people who think that way are too far gone to reason with so I kept quiet." and you're doing the same thing yet again. Guys deserve credit for what they do even if it doesn't end in rings for whatever reason. It's a team sport. Teams win. Jazz didn't win without Gobert in the lineup that much I'm certain of with whoever they teamed him up with. They were actually trying to lose and couldn't because he was on the floor. Sloan, Stockton and Malone are all praised for never winning. No one said their chance has passed them up. They went from 1st to 3rd in their division and weren't sold off. The coach wasn't fired and he went from 1st to 3rd again with Deron and the legend that is Carlos Boozer. The coach is now a HOFer because he wasn't fired and had the luxury of two of the greats in the lineup every night for 2 decades

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

Boozer not in the top 12 in utah jazz history at basketball reference. Top 4 are hard to argue despite the lack of conference finals. I would have taken Stockton over Malone if I'd had to choose though

[bison]

None of them? I honestly don’t get this or why anyone discusses him. He’s in the Derek fisher category where on his own he is a mediocre yet serviceable point guard who benefited from playing with hall of fame teammates and championship squads. I don’t get why this dude gets so overrated

[Kblaze8855]

If you don’t see the difference between ranking players only by playoff success and saying one era of a team was more successful than another because of it I don’t know what to tell you.

Like I said, if I felt boozer was better, I certainly wouldn’t hesitate to say it because of any argument you could make against it. Boozer, Mitchell, Conley, Bojan and so on would win some regular season games then lose in the playoffs. We aren’t talking about players who take a good team and make them truly win. They’re guys who might help an ok team be good or a shit team be ok depending on the era and rules in question.

It isn’t Boozer vs Hakeem or Rudy vs Tim Duncan.

Its two guys who depending on some factors could be all nba so maybe top 15-20 and win a little bit. But not special in any kinda all time way.

Hardly worth a whole “thing”.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

Boozer not in the top 12 in utah jazz history at basketball reference. Top 4 are hard to argue despite the lack of conference finals. I would have taken Stockton over Malone if I'd had to choose though

Yeah Derrick favors and your much hated Mark Eaton are both better than Donovan Mitchell and Pistol Pete(Eaton and Williams apparently very close).

Hell Thurl Bailey was better than 2-3 of those. But of course it isn’t measuring “better” to begin with. Not until you decide it is at least.

[DMAVS41]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

Boozer not in the top 12 in utah jazz history at basketball reference. Top 4 are hard to argue despite the lack of conference finals. I would have taken Stockton over Malone if I'd had to choose though

Dude.

You won't even answer how good you think Rudy Gobert is. I'll give you another chance...please rank Rudy Gobert in the league currently. Is he the 40th best player? The 11th best player? The 7th best player?

Please rank him.

[Xiao Yao You]

If you don’t see the difference between ranking players only by playoff success and saying one era of a team was more successful than another because of it I don’t know what to tell you.

Like I said, if I felt boozer was better, I certainly wouldn’t hesitate to say it because of any argument you could make against it. Boozer, Mitchell, Conley, Bojan and so on would win some regular season games then lose in the playoffs. We aren’t talking about players who take a good team and make them truly win. They’re guys who might help an ok team be good or a shit team be ok depending on the era and rules in question.

It isn’t Boozer vs Hakeem or Rudy vs Tim Duncan.

Its two guys who depending on some factors could be all nba so maybe top 15-20 and win a little bit. But not special in any kinda all time way.

Hardly worth a whole “thing”.

Mitchell and Bojan wouldn't have made the playoffs without Gobert. That's the point. They were an awful basketball team without him. With him they were good. We're talking about a lottery team. One that tried to tank even after he made them good. #3 player all time in Jazz history is special to someone that has followed the team for almost 45 years. He's one of a kind in their history except maybe AK the year after Stockton and Malone. Stockton and Malone joined a playoff team and continued winning. They tried building around those two badly. Gobert they tried to build around except briefly and again very badly to keep Hayward

[Xiao Yao You]

Dude.

You won't even answer how good you think Rudy Gobert is. I'll give you another chance...please rank Rudy Gobert in the league currently. Is he the 40th best player? The 11th best player? The 7th best player?

Please rank him.

He's been one of the top players in the league since December 2014. You tell me how many guys have carried an otherwise bad team during that time? It's not many. Certainly the best Jazz player in that time and easily #3 in their franchise history ahead of at least a couple HOFers and the legendary Carlos Boozer!

[ArbitraryWater]

Hard to say, tbh.

I think 2012 Rondo was a beast and nearly superstar level.

Any other Rondo 2010-2011, 2013-2014 as AS PG.

edit: I did not realize Rondo scored THAT little... definitely not superstar level or different to his other years, tbh.

[RRR3]

I’m taking all of those guys over Rondo in today’s NBA without thinking twice. In leagues where shooting mattered less I’d have to reevaluate but I was never super high on Rondo.

[ArbitraryWater]

He's been one of the top players in the league since December 2014. You tell me how many guys have carried an otherwise bad team during that time? It's not many. Certainly the best Jazz player in that time and easily #3 in their franchise history ahead of at least a couple HOFers and the legendary Carlos Boozer!


Youre like Fauci, absolutely incapable of answering a simple question.

[DMAVS41]

He's been one of the top players in the league since December 2014. You tell me how many guys have carried an otherwise bad team during that time? It's not many. Certainly the best Jazz player in that time and easily #3 in their franchise history ahead of at least a couple HOFers and the legendary Carlos Boozer!

Define top.

Give me an actual ranking this year and maybe a couple in the past.

[Xiao Yao You]

Define top.

Give me an actual ranking this year and maybe a couple in the past.

you tell me how guys have had his impact at both ends of the court and carried bad teams for almost a decade? They are few and far between. Stockton nor Malone did it. Not even the great Carlos Boozer did as surprising as that is

[Xiao Yao You]

9 teams have won titles during that time and really only 8 because of the joke that was the bubble. Supposedly you suck otherwise so there can't be too many ahead of him can there?

[ArbitraryWater]

Xiao should work for the white house

[ArbitraryWater]

you tell me how guys have had his impact at both ends of the court and carried bad teams for almost a decade? They are few and far between. Stockton nor Malone did it. Not even the great Carlos Boozer did as surprising as that is

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2022/01/2022-01-05T174327Z_1835199381_RC24TR95PZXQ_RTRMADP_3_USA-BIDEN-1024x638.jpg

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao should work for the white house

I'd certainly rather be working for them than against them like 27% of the population

[Xiao Yao You]

How many 4 time all NBAers during that time Span? Not many. Should narrow it down quite a bit for ya!

[ArbitraryWater]

How many 4 time all NBAers during that time Span? Not many. Should narrow it down quite a bit for ya!


https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2021/11/2021-11-19T180121Z_1443421892_RC2UXQ9MI6TD_RTRMADP_3_USA-BIDEN-1024x694.jpg

[Manny98]

you tell me how guys have had his impact at both ends of the court and carried bad teams for almost a decade? They are few and far between. Stockton nor Malone did it. Not even the great Carlos Boozer did as surprising as that is

Stop dodging the question and say a number

Top 10?

Top 30?

[Xiao Yao You]

Stop dodging the question and say a number

Top 10?

Top 30?

how could a 4 time all NBAer(top 15) be top 30 troll? How could the best player on one of the best teams during that time be top 30(30 teams)?

[Xiao Yao You]

he's already behind Naz and any big in Puerto Rico

[John8204]

Is this a Gobert thread a Boozer thread or a Rondo thread?

[Xiao Yao You]

Is this a Gobert thread a Boozer thread or a Rondo thread?

the trolls took over again unfortunately

[Manny98]

It's a question hence the question mark

DeAndre Jordan was 3 time all NBA and made the 1st team one year unlike Rudy who never made 1st team, so your all NBA argument is invalid

So where do you have him top 10? 20? 30?

[Manny98]

the trolls took over again unfortunately

You literally came into the thread crying about Kblaze apparently saying that Boozer > Rudy in a thread about Rondo :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

It's a question hence the question mark

DeAndre Jordan was 3 time all NBA and made the 1st team one year unlike Rudy who never made 1st team, so your all NBA argument is invalid

So where do you have him top 10? 20? 30?

did Jordan carry his team at both ends? Did Zach Randolph? Did Boozer or Noah?

[jayfan]

As purely a floor general, elite.

His (in)ability to score the ball drags him down a bit.

[Xiao Yao You]

You literally came into the thread crying about Kblaze apparently saying that Boozer > Rudy in a thread about Rondo :oldlol:

I called the troll on his bullshit and throughout the thread he keeps at it while saying he doesn't do it!

[Xiao Yao You]

As purely a floor general, elite.

His (in)ability to score the ball drags him down a bit.

being a head case doesn't help either

[zeerghit]

did Jordan carry his team at both ends? Did Zach Randolph? Did Boozer or Noah?

:lol you telling us rudy carried jazz offense? are u fckiing serious here?

[Manny98]

did Jordan carry his team at both ends? Did Zach Randolph? Did Boozer or Noah?
Either you're trolling or you genuinely don't know what carrying is

Rudy never "carried" a offense, he's never been the best offensive player on his team.

[DMAVS41]

you tell me how guys have had his impact at both ends of the court and carried bad teams for almost a decade? They are few and far between. Stockton nor Malone did it. Not even the great Carlos Boozer did as surprising as that is

I have no idea what Carlos Boozer has to do with how good Rudy is.

So, like I said, you won't answer...

[Xiao Yao You]

:lol you telling us rudy carried jazz offense? are u fckiing serious here?

I'm not telling you anything. The impact stats tell the story

[Xiao Yao You]

I have no idea what Carlos Boozer has to do with how good Rudy is.

So, like I said, you won't answer...

Carlos Boozer made the conference finals because GS beat Dallas. Gobert hasn't been to a conference finals. So Boozer is better even though Kblaze doesn't view things that way :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

You literally came into the thread crying about Kblaze apparently saying that Boozer > Rudy in a thread about Rondo :oldlol:


And swears people won’t leave him alone. I’ve been looking the other way while he derails topics with this weird obsession for years. I don’t stop him. I could. But I don’t. But he swears im out to get him. I don’t stop anyone who talks ball and doesn’t spam the front page with topics. He’s free to be as insane as he wishes.

[John8204]

Anyways moving on... as a PG my top ten are set

Tiny Archibald, Steph Curry, Walt Frazier, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Gary Payton, Oscar Robertson, John Stockton, Isiah Thomas.

Top Twenty I wouldn't have Rondo either
Dave Bing, Bob Cousy, Kyrie Irving, Dennis Johnson, Sam Jones, Slater Martin, Steve Nash, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Lenny Wilkins

Seems to fit best in the too thirty
Chancy Billups, Maurice Cheeks, Gail Goodrich, Tim Hardaway, Mark Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Norm Nixon, Mark Price, Trea Young

With the Top forty
Baron Davis, Derrick Fisher, Norm Van Lier, Ron Harper, Dick Mcguire, Michael Richardson, Guy Rodgers, Derrick Rose, Reggie Theus, Deron Williams

So looking at the top thirty
Chancy Billups, Maurice Cheeks, Gail Goodrich, Tim Hardaway, Mark Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Norm Nixon, Mark Price, Trea Young

I would likely take Cheeks, Goodrich, and Young over him...so he'd be top 24

[Manny98]

I'm not telling you anything. The impact stats tell the story
Every single Impact stats suggest that he's a net neutral on offense in his Utah days and this season he's been a negative on offense

[Xiao Yao You]

And swears people won’t leave him alone. I’ve been looking the other way while he derails topics with this weird obsession for years. I don’t stop him. I could. But I don’t. But he swears im out to get him. I don’t stop anyone who talks ball and doesn’t spam the front page with topics. He’s free to be as insane as he wishes.

Never said you were out to get me. Calling me insane because I don't root for the players I'm supposed to be rooting for is ****ed up. Never cared for Boozer. I love guys that give their all at both ends of the floor though. I love guys that do the little things. Gobert, Kirilenko, Millsap, Carey Scurry, John Stockton... Baron Davis is all yours! :cheers:

[Xiao Yao You]

Every single Impact stats suggest that he's a net neutral on offense in his Utah days and this season he's been a negative on offense

show us these stats? Elite screener, elite roll gravity, elite offensive rebounder. The offense revolved around his hard work at that end. Lots of guys can make open shots. Few do the dirty work

[Kblaze8855]

I have no idea what Carlos Boozer has to do with how good Rudy is.

So, like I said, you won't answer...

I ranked Jazz eras by playoff success once and referred to the teams with Boozer as “The Boozer era” even while saying I’d prefer Deron and AK as players and he’s taken it to mean I said(or even care if) Boozer is better. I do find it hilarious that a valid DPOY has at times been exploited on defense to his team’s detriment in the playoffs when defense is the reason to take him over Boozer but that’s another discussion.

[Manny98]

show us these stats? Elite screener, elite roll gravity, elite offensive rebounder. The offense revolved around his hard work at that end. Lots of guys can make open shots. Few do the dirty work
None of those things make you elite offensively, that's the bare minimum for a center to stay on the court considering Rudy is useless at everything else offensively, can't shoot, can't playmake, mediocre in the post ect.

DeAndre Jordan was a elite screener, offensive rebounder and one of the best pick and roll lob threats the league has seen. Doesn't make him an elite offensive player

I'm failing to see what Rudy does so much better than guys like DJ,Capela, Jarret Allen, Tyson Chandler ect

[Xiao Yao You]

I ranked Jazz eras by playoff success once and referred to the teams with Boozer as “The Boozer era” even while saying I’d prefer Deron and AK as players and he’s taken it to mean I said(or even care if) Boozer is better. I do find it hilarious that a valid DPOY has at times been exploited on defense to his team’s detriment in the playoffs when defense is the reason to take him over Boozer but that’s another discussion.

you said Gobert wasn't better than Boozer because he hadn't been to a conference finals.Don't recall anything about AK and Deron or Jazz eras but keep denying your bullshit man! Again it's a team game. Gobert can't guard 5 guys by himself especially in a league where defense is all but illegal. When your so called superstar doesn't give any effort at that end it's pretty tough DPOTY or not. When your coach won't make in series let alone in game adjustments it's tough

[Xiao Yao You]

None of those things make you elite offensively, that's the bare minimum for a center to stay on the court considering Rudy is useless at everything else offensively, can't shoot, can't playmake, mediocre in the post ect.

DeAndre Jordan was a elite screener, offensive rebounder and one of the best pick and roll lob threats the league has seen. Doesn't make him an elite offensive player

I'm failing to see what Rudy does so much better than guys like DJ,Capela, Jarret Allen, Tyson Chandler ect

the bare minimum is to be elite? Look up elite in the dictionary please, Gobert can pass to the corner out of the roll. His gravity opened up everything. Their is no post anymore. Pay attention troll. You shoot 3's like Naz or you rim run. I know you don't see it. The impact stats tell the story that your precious box scores and +/- don't necessarily tell you

[Manny98]

the bare minimum is to be elite? Look up elite in the dictionary please, Gobert can pass to the corner out of the roll. His gravity opened up everything. Their is no post anymore. Pay attention troll. You shoot 3's like Naz or you rim run. I know you don't see it. The impact stats tell the story that your precious box scores and +/- don't necessarily tell you
The bare minimum for a big that can't space the floor or create their own offense would be to be an elite screener and roll guy because that's all they can do

Again nobody looks at guys like DJ and Jarret Allen as elite offensive players because they're good at setting screens and rolling to the basket

There's no impact stats that suggest Rudy is elite on offense and definitely not better than Mitchell. Absolutely zero. To suggest that Rudy was more impactful of an offensive player than Mitchell would get you permabanned on most forums that's how ridiculous of a take it is :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

Xiao thinks running up the floor (like everyone else), and then standing in a certain way, is more valuable to the offense than the ballhandler himself who will run around the screen and create a basket by his scoring skill or playmaking.

[Kblaze8855]

you said Gobert wasn't better than Boozer because he hadn't been to a conference finals.


So show it to me. Unless your suggestion is I deleted it out of fear of your powerful mockery.


I’ll say it right now if you like and you can make whatever scathing remark you think I’m afraid of. The repercussions of me thinking it aren’t significant enough for me to hide it.

[DMAVS41]

I ranked Jazz eras by playoff success once and referred to the teams with Boozer as “The Boozer era” even while saying I’d prefer Deron and AK as players and he’s taken it to mean I said(or even care if) Boozer is better. I do find it hilarious that a valid DPOY has at times been exploited on defense to his team’s detriment in the playoffs when defense is the reason to take him over Boozer but that’s another discussion.

I used to be higher on Rudy than I am now. I liked the Wolves trade for him because I thought he was what they needed and applauded a team for trying to capitalize on what they had rather than playing the waiting game. Still want to see it play out, but it hasn't been a good look for Rudy this year...the Wolves are barely better with him on the court and aren't very good with him on the court...given his...

+0 points per 100 on court rating this year

That is why I keep asking him to rank him. In my mind, I'd probably take Rudy over Boozer, but definitely a discussion...just not a discussion anyone should ever have because who the **** cares

[SaltyMeatballs]

did Jordan carry his team at both ends? Did Zach Randolph? Did Boozer or Noah?

Gobert has never carried on offense :oldlol:

You are so delusional when it comes to him

[Kblaze8855]

I used to be higher on Rudy than I am now. I liked the Wolves trade for him because I thought he was what they needed and applauded a team for trying to capitalize on what they had rather than playing the waiting game. Still want to see it play out, but it hasn't been a good look for Rudy this year...the Wolves are barely better with him on the court and aren't very good with him on the court...given his...

+0 points per 100 on court rating this year

That is why I keep asking him to rank him. In my mind, I'd probably take Rudy over Boozer, but definitely a discussion...just not a discussion anyone should ever have because who the **** cares


Exactly. I think I’d take him over Boozer but the difference isn’t such that I’d give it a deep dive. I’d have to see the team and know the era and all that and it’s more than the difference between those two is worth exploring.

I actually looked up every time I’ve said the word “Boozer” since he left the Bulls and I can’t find me directly saying he’s better than anyone. I included him among a list of 25 all stars I’d take Doug Christie over in 2019.

[DMAVS41]

So show it to me. Unless your suggestion is I deleted it out of fear of your powerful mockery.


I’ll say it right now if you like and you can make whatever scathing remark you think I’m afraid of. The repercussions of me thinking it aren’t significant enough for me to hide it.

Hahaha.

I will as well. If you are out there for defense only really...but your defense in the matchup hurts the team that you are almost unplayable on that end...you aren't more valuable than Boozer when it matters most.

[Xiao Yao You]

Carlos Boozer, who starred at Juneau-Douglas before finding the national spotlight at Duke and in the NBA, has been named to the National High School Hall of Fame. (https://www.adn.com/sports/high-school-sports/2023/03/25/former-juneau-douglas-nba-star-carlos-boozer-named-to-national-high-school-hall-of-fame/) Boozer enters in the 2023 class with fellow basketball star Tamika Catchings, girls wrestling trailblazer Clarissa Chun and track and field sensation Maranda Brownson.

– via Chris Bieri @ ADN.com (https://www.adn.com/sports/high-school-sports/2023/03/25/former-juneau-douglas-nba-star-carlos-boozer-named-to-national-high-school-hall-of-fame/)




the hits keep on coming for the legend!

[Xiao Yao You]

The bare minimum for a big that can't space the floor or create their own offense would be to be an elite screener and roll guy because that's all they can do

Again nobody looks at guys like DJ and Jarret Allen as elite offensive players because they're good at setting screens and rolling to the basket

There's no impact stats that suggest Rudy is elite on offense and definitely not better than Mitchell. Absolutely zero. To suggest that Rudy was more impactful of an offensive player than Mitchell would get you permabanned on most forums that's how ridiculous of a take it is :facepalm

being an effective team player at both ends > an ineffective one way gunner is better as far as I'm concerned. Always has been

[Xiao Yao You]

I used to be higher on Rudy than I am now. I liked the Wolves trade for him because I thought he was what they needed and applauded a team for trying to capitalize on what they had rather than playing the waiting game. Still want to see it play out, but it hasn't been a good look for Rudy this year...the Wolves are barely better with him on the court and aren't very good with him on the court...given his...

+0 points per 100 on court rating this year

That is why I keep asking him to rank him. In my mind, I'd probably take Rudy over Boozer, but definitely a discussion...just not a discussion anyone should ever have because who the **** cares

it's not a discussion. The 3rd best PF on his team vs the 3rd best player in almost 50, years of a franchise :roll:

[Kblaze8855]

Hahaha.

I will as well. If you are out there for defense only really...but your defense in the matchup hurts the team that you are almost unplayable on that end...you aren't more valuable than Boozer when it matters most.



This guy really thinks he’s the big bad wolf and has people ducking takes because he’d….disagree? And do what?

Explain his position so poorly he’d have to do it over the stifled laughter coming even from those who don’t entirely disagree with his conclusion?

He’s comedy if nothing else.

[Manny98]

being an effective team player at both ends > an ineffective one way gunner is better as far as I'm concerned. Always has been
Talking about offense only. Rudy has no claim to ever being the best offensive player on his team or has ever carried an offense :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

Hahaha.

I will as well. If you are out there for defense only really...but your defense in the matchup hurts the team that you are almost unplayable on that end...you aren't more valuable than Boozer when it matters most.

he was so unplayable they had the best offense in history last year before covid and injuries hit

Boozer played no defense and was injured more than he was on the floor. Again you guys can have Carlos, Clarkson, Baron, Whiteside, Monroe, Naz. I'll take one of the best players of his generation. One of the biggest overachievers the game has seen :cheers:

[Xiao Yao You]

Talking about offense only. Rudy has no claim to ever being the best offensive player on his team or has ever carried an offense :facepalm

well we certainly wouldn't be talking about defense when it comes to Mitchell. Passing and team work ideally are part of offense though at least in my mind. I realize you prefer iso and gunners

[Kblaze8855]

he was so unplayable they had the best offense in history last year before covid and injuries hit

Boozer played no defense and was injured more than he was on the floor. Again you guys can have Carlos, Clarkson, Baron, Whiteside, Monroe, Naz. I'll take one of the best players of his generation. One of the biggest overachievers the game has seen :cheers:


No. You’ll take Rudy Gobert.

[Xiao Yao You]

No. You’ll take Rudy Gobert.

yep just what I said. Unselfish, hard working, efficient two way players are my thing.

[DMAVS41]

he was so unplayable they had the best offense in history last year before covid and injuries hit

Boozer played no defense and was injured more than he was on the floor. Again you guys can have Carlos, Clarkson, Baron, Whiteside, Monroe, Naz. I'll take one of the best players of his generation. One of the biggest overachievers the game has seen :cheers:

What Xiao sees when he watches Rudy:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UZc3uq56JKU/maxresdefault.jpg

What the rest of us see:

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ed5a417/2147483647/strip/true/crop/600x395+0+0/resize/1200x790!/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F32%2F53%2F532be8850c 2472895873b929ab33%2Fla-sp-sn-roy-hibbert-fined-gay-slur-20130602-001

[Kblaze8855]

Rubbing his covid infected hands on shared microphones on purpose, not developing a jumper in a decade, and being a traffic cone on offense. If that’s unselfish, hard working, and two way to you maybe our issue is deeper than basketball. We may have a different understanding of…English.

[Xiao Yao You]

What Xiao sees when he watches Rudy:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UZc3uq56JKU/maxresdefault.jpg

What the rest of us see:

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ed5a417/2147483647/strip/true/crop/600x395+0+0/resize/1200x790!/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F32%2F53%2F532be8850c 2472895873b929ab33%2Fla-sp-sn-roy-hibbert-fined-gay-slur-20130602-001

that says a lot about who I'm dealing with Hibbert is only 36 years old and how long has he been out of the league? If he could have guarded in space he'd still be in the league

[Manny98]

well we certainly wouldn't be talking about defense when it comes to Mitchell. Passing and team work ideally are part of offense though at least in my mind. I realize you prefer iso and gunners
I mean Mitchell is doing way better on his new team than Rudy but that's besides the point

What does Rudy do offensively that separates himself from the likes of DJ, Allen and Capela to the point you could say he's better than Mitchell on that end and is one of the most impactful offensive players in the league

Are you going to answer or keep on dodging

[Xiao Yao You]

Rubbing his covid infected hands on shared microphones on purpose, not developing a jumper in a decade, and being a traffic cone on offense. If that’s unselfish, hard working, and two way to you maybe our issue is deeper than basketball. We may have a different understanding of…English.

hard work didn't get him to where he is? Take a look at him as a rookie and the improvements he made in his game and body since then. It's all about hard work. He came in as a very long and skinny project and a little over a year later he was the best player on his team and improved every year. He had covid when he touched the mikes? He has a jumper. Why shoot jumpers when you can finish at a much higher rate at the rim or get someone else an open 3? He's too good at the things he does to have him shooting long twos. He knows what he's good at and excels at those things. He doesn't try to do things he's not as good at. I'm sure he could have had a 46% hook shot like Eaton if he'd tried. Not high iq basketball but again look who were dealing with on this site :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

I mean Mitchell is doing way better on his new team than Rudy but that's besides the point

What does Rudy do offensively that separates himself from the likes of DJ, Allen and Capela to the point you could say he's better than Mitchell on that end and is one of the most impactful offensive players in the league

Are you going to answer or keep on dodging

I've answered multiple times. I've put the numbers here countless times. Why do we need to go over it again and again and again? The numbers are out there for anyone that cares. Baron Davis was part of this thread. Was his sub 40% gunning and incredibly high TO numbers great offense too? You can have those guys. I'll take mine if I'm allowed :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

What Xiao sees when he watches Rudy:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UZc3uq56JKU/maxresdefault.jpg

What the rest of us see:

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ed5a417/2147483647/strip/true/crop/600x395+0+0/resize/1200x790!/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F32%2F53%2F532be8850c 2472895873b929ab33%2Fla-sp-sn-roy-hibbert-fined-gay-slur-20130602-001



I see past his prime Mutombo.

The Jazz were just the 90s Hawks and he’s always offended I point it out. Rudy is Mutombo, Conley was Mookie Blaylock, Laettner was Bojan, and Smitty as Mitchell. Mitchell is more explosive but who knows what Steve looks like if defense were illegal. Good 2.5 all star team with an extra scorer or two held down by a 3-4 time DPOY big with limited offense aside from dunking. Win 55ish games and scare nobody in the playoffs.


500 topics derailed by a guy obsessed with end of prime Mutombo if he only had 2 great centers to overshadow him instead of Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, and Zo all at the same time.

[Xiao Yao You]

Puerto Rico might be a landing site for Hibbert!

[Xiao Yao You]

I see past his prime Mutombo.

The Jazz were just the 90s Hawks and he’s always offended I point it out. Rudy is Mutombo, Conley was Mookie Blaylock, Laettner was Bojan, and Smitty as Mitchell. Mitchell is more explosive but who knows what Steve looks like if defense were illegal. Good 2.5 all star team with an extra scorer or two held down by a 3-4 time DPOY big with limited offense aside from dunking. Win 55ish games and scare nobody in the playoffs.


500 topics derailed by a guy obsessed with end of prime Mutombo if he only had 2 great centers to overshadow him instead of Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, and Zo all at the same time.

now, it's Blaylock another low efficiency pg. You could have put him in there with Baron! :oldlol:

[Manny98]

I've answered multiple times. I've put the numbers here countless times. Why do we need to go over it again and again and again? The numbers are out there for anyone that cares. Baron Davis was part of this thread. Was his sub 40% gunning and incredibly high TO numbers great offense too? You can have those guys. I'll take mine if I'm allowed :facepalm
You have only posted efficiency stats, having a high offensive rating and TS% doesn't make you elite offensively. Every stat you have used to try and make Rudy out to be some offensive beast, prime DJ was equal or better at the same thing :facepalm

So still waiting for those impact stats that show that Rudy "carried" Utahs offense

[Manny98]

Puerto Rico might be a landing site for Hibbert!
Rudy is closer to prime Roy Hibbert than he is to Tim Duncan as a player

[Kblaze8855]

now, it's Blaylock another low efficiency pg. You could have put him in there with Baron! :oldlol:

Your selective acknowledgement that incredible defense can make up for lacking in areas of offense continues to amaze.

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy is closer to prime Roy Hibbert than he is to Tim Duncan as a player

maybe. Duncan was one of the best ever. Hibbert was at least good for a brief time unlike the stiffs you are usually shilling

[ArbitraryWater]

What Xiao sees when he watches Rudy:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UZc3uq56JKU/maxresdefault.jpg

What the rest of us see:

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ed5a417/2147483647/strip/true/crop/600x395+0+0/resize/1200x790!/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F32%2F53%2F532be8850c 2472895873b929ab33%2Fla-sp-sn-roy-hibbert-fined-gay-slur-20130602-001


:oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Your selective acknowledgement that incredible defense can make up for lacking in areas of offense continues to amaze.

Blaylock played D. It certainly didn't make up for his awful efficiency

[Kblaze8855]

Blaylock played D. It certainly didn't make up for his awful efficiency


Coaches took him over Reggie Miller in a 50/42/91 season while he was doing 14/10/5 on 41% shooting. Some people value defense more than others. Like you. And me for that matter.

[DMAVS41]

that says a lot about who I'm dealing with Hibbert is only 36 years old and how long has he been out of the league? If he could have guarded in space he'd still be in the league

Yea, it's a joke. You know...something someone says or does when they aren't being serious. :basketball

[DMAVS41]

I see past his prime Mutombo.

The Jazz were just the 90s Hawks and he’s always offended I point it out. Rudy is Mutombo, Conley was Mookie Blaylock, Laettner was Bojan, and Smitty as Mitchell. Mitchell is more explosive but who knows what Steve looks like if defense were illegal. Good 2.5 all star team with an extra scorer or two held down by a 3-4 time DPOY big with limited offense aside from dunking. Win 55ish games and scare nobody in the playoffs.


500 topics derailed by a guy obsessed with end of prime Mutombo if he only had 2 great centers to overshadow him instead of Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, and Zo all at the same time.

https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2bb78a9e50f542c2a9c2eadd3417c696_18.jpeg

[Im Still Ballin]

Mookie Blaylock's play-by-play data was always really strong. Same with Nate McMillan - he led the league in net rating the first year it was recorded.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jesus Christ, he's legitimately too big of a pusssy to answer where he ranks Rudy. He's ducked that question every single time :lol

Let's see if you can actually answer a question directly. Where do you rank Rudy amongst these players.

SGA
Jaylen
Siakam
Bam
Jrue

[RRR3]

Jesus Christ, he's legitimately too big of a pusssy to answer where he ranks Rudy. He's ducked that question every single time :lol

Let's see if you can actually answer a question directly. Where do you rank Rudy amongst these players.

SGA
Jaylen
Siakam
Bam
Jrue
He will never answer because he knows he'll be laughed at when he says he thinks Rudy is the best player in the NBA (or top 5)

[Xiao Yao You]

Jesus Christ, he's legitimately too big of a pusssy to answer where he ranks Rudy. He's ducked that question every single time :lol

Let's see if you can actually answer a question directly. Where do you rank Rudy amongst these players.

SGA
Jaylen
Siakam
Bam
Jrue

since 2014? Which carried bad teams to the 2nd round of playoffs? Jaylen, Jrue and Bam aren't the best players on their teams. SGA hasn't made a playin. Siakam is leading a playin/lottery team. Try again

[Xiao Yao You]

can't quit me!

[SouBeachTalents]

since 2014? Which carried bad teams to the 2nd round of playoffs? Jaylen, Jrue and Bam aren't the best players on their teams. SGA hasn't made a playin. Siakam is leading a playin/lottery team. Try again
Still can't answer it :lol I'll ask one more time, as of this season, not bringing up shit from 9 years ago, where does he rank among those players?

[Xiao Yao You]

Still can't answer it :lol I'll ask one more time, as of this season, not bringing up shit from 9 years ago, where does he rank among those players?

reading comprehension is difficult for you I know

[imdaman99]

Rondo was capable of taking over the game without dropping 30. I'm old enough to remember him dropping some ridiculous lines like 18-17-18 or something like that... in the damn playoffs. I remember him routinely dominating the Knicks like that. I remember him taking over the Cavs series when the Cavs were the 1 seed and had a 2-1 series lead. I would take him over most of those guys in the list.

[Manny98]

since 2014? Which carried bad teams to the 2nd round of playoffs? Jaylen, Jrue and Bam aren't the best players on their teams. SGA hasn't made a playin. Siakam is leading a playin/lottery team. Try again

Rudy has never "carried" a team to the 2nd round either. Mitchell has been the best player in every series they won. The word carry and Gobert don't even go together as he's always had great players by his side

Carrying implies he's playing with scrubs

Considering what Mitchell is doing this year for Cavs , trying to downplay his greatness is cringe

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy has never "carried" a team to the 2nd round either. Mitchell has been the best player in every series they won. The word carry and Gobert don't even go together as he's always had great players by his side

Carrying implies he's playing with scrubs

Considering what Mitchell is doing this year for Cavs , trying to downplay his greatness is cringe

Mitchell scored the most points. When you're giving up as many at the other end as you're scoring who cares? Whatever Mitchell is doing this year has nothing to do with the player he was in Utah. He had horrible chemistry with their best player. Why did the Jazz lose so much when Gobert wasn't on the floor if he had such great players around him? Once again with him they won. Without him they were mostly awful.

Which of these guys weren't scrubs? Booker though he should have been an end of the bench energy guy not key rotation player. Burks but COTM didn't like him. Favors but horrible fit next to their best player. Kanter traded because Gobert emerged. Hayward until he left. Hood again way too big of a role because he went to the same school as COTM. Ingles. Millsap was great defensively during that great run.



Jerrelle Benimon (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/benimje01.html)
PF
6-8
245



33
Trevor Booker (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/booketr01.html)
PF
6-8
228



3
Trey Burke (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burketr01.html)
PG
6-0
185



10
Alec Burks (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burksal01.html)
SG
6-6
214



19
Patrick Christopher (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chrispa01.html)
SG
6-5
209



21
Ian Clark (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkia01.html)
SG
6-3
175


45
Jack Cooley (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cooleja01.html)
C
6-9
260


8
Bryce Cotton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cottobr01.html)
PG
6-1
165



40
Jeremy Evans (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansje01.html)
SF
6-9
200


11
Dante Exum (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/exumda01.html)
PG
6-5
214





15
Derrick Favors (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/favorde01.html)
PF
6-9
265





0
Enes Freedom (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html)
C
6-10
250





27
Rudy Gobert (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01.html)
C
7-1
258




20
Gordon Hayward (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html)
SF
6-7
225




5
Rodney Hood (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hoodro01.html)
SG
6-8
208


2
Joe Ingles (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/inglejo01.html)
SF
6-8
220



17
Grant Jerrett (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jerregr01.html)
PF
6-10
235


23
Chris Johnson (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsch04.html)
SF
6-6
206



13
Elijah Millsap (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millsel01.html)
SG
6-6
225




23
Toure' Murry (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murryto01.html)

PG
6-5
195



16
Steve Novak (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/novakst01.html)

SF
6-10
225



25
Elliot Williams (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/williel01.html)

[Xiao Yao You]

after taking that star studded cast to the 6th best record after the trade deadline they still tried to tank next year. Finally brought Neto over who became the starter after Exum thankfully went down. Still left scrub Burke as backup until they finally got the vet pg they needed at the trade deadline. 3rd stringer Shelvin Mack who was their 4th best player almost immediately because they had so much talent!

[Manny98]

Mitchell scored the most points. When you're giving up as many at the other end as you're scoring who cares? Whatever Mitchell is doing this year has nothing to do with the player he was in Utah. He had horrible chemistry with their best player. Why did the Jazz lose so much when Gobert wasn't on the floor if he had such great players around him? Once again with him they won. Without him they were mostly awful.

Which of these guys weren't scrubs? Booker though he should have been an end of the bench energy guy not key rotation player. Burks but COTM didn't like him. Favors but horrible fit next to their best player. Kanter traded because Gobert emerged. Hayward until he left. Hood again way too big of a role because he went to the same school as COTM. Ingles. Millsap was great defensively during that great run.



Jerrelle Benimon (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/benimje01.html)
PF
6-8
245



33
Trevor Booker (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/booketr01.html)
PF
6-8
228



3
Trey Burke (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burketr01.html)
PG
6-0
185



10
Alec Burks (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burksal01.html)
SG
6-6
214



19
Patrick Christopher (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chrispa01.html)
SG
6-5
209



21
Ian Clark (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkia01.html)
SG
6-3
175


45
Jack Cooley (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cooleja01.html)
C
6-9
260


8
Bryce Cotton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cottobr01.html)
PG
6-1
165


40
Jeremy Evans (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansje01.html)
SF
6-9
200


11
Dante Exum (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/exumda01.html)
PG
6-5
214




15
Derrick Favors (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/favorde01.html)
PF
6-9
265





0
Enes Freedom (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html)
C
6-10
250




27
Rudy Gobert (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01.html)
C
7-1
258




20
Gordon Hayward (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html)
SF
6-7
225




5
Rodney Hood (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hoodro01.html)
SG
6-8
208


2
Joe Ingles (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/inglejo01.html)
SF
6-8
220



17
Grant Jerrett (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jerregr01.html)
PF
6-10
235


23
Chris Johnson (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsch04.html)
SF
6-6
206


13
Elijah Millsap (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millsel01.html)
SG
6-6
225



23
Toure' Murry (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murryto01.html)
PG
6-5
195


16
Steve Novak (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/novakst01.html)
SF
6-10
225


25
Elliot Williams (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/williel01.html)



They were just below.500 without him l, there offense was still elite but there defense fell off, stop acting like he has prime Tim Duncan impact

Also that team of scrubs basically beat the lob city Clippers without Rudy :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

They were just below.500 without him l, there offense was still elite but there defense fell off, stop acting like he has prime Tim Duncan impact

Also that team of scrubs basically beat the lob city Clippers without Rudy :oldlol:

That team lost 8 in a row before Gobert emerged. They were as bad as any team in the league. Ended as one of the best. No the team that beat the Clippers was their most talented team. Hayward played at his highest level ever. Favors was benched because he was hurt. Joe Johnson gave all he had left. Diaw sucked but was still better than Favors at the 4. Hill was great until he hurt his toe early on. Gobert missed one game. This was the blueprint of a potentially great team. Jazz wouldn't pay Hill and replaced him with The Matador who made no sense next to Gobert or in a starting lineup for that matter. Favors went back to starting where he made no sense next to their best player. Johnson was done after his dagger against the Clippers. Diaw retired. Hayward left. They were closer to the top pick that year than the playoffs before Rudy came back from injury and carried them to the 2nd round yet again. Than they thought they would use the Rockets blueprint with a 6'4 PF. Unfortunately Mitchell wasn't Harden and COTM stopped making adjustments for 3 straight playoffs

[Xiao Yao You]

Conley was a huge upgrade and was the best teammate Gobert had. Unfortunately Mitchell made no sense next to him. Should have traded Mitchell. D and rebounding are their weaknesses now. Would be a top team with Gobert

[Manny98]

Yh Gobert carried hard that series :rolleyes:


https://youtu.be/0l8Q9CyvphM

[Xiao Yao You]

no that series was more Scott Brooks refusing to bench "starter only" Carmelo. They put him on an island all series. They let Westbrook shoot as well while Gobert stayed in the paint and he sucked early on. Was ok to end the series. The last time COTM made playoff adjustments

[Xiao Yao You]

Jerrelle Benimon (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/benimje01.html)

PF
6-8
245



33
Trevor Booker (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/booketr01.html)
PF
6-8
228



3
Trey Burke (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burketr01.html)
PG
6-0
185



10
Alec Burks (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burksal01.html)
SG
6-6
214



19
Patrick Christopher (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chrispa01.html)
SG
6-5
209



21
Ian Clark (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkia01.html)
SG
6-3
175


45
Jack Cooley (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cooleja01.html)
C
6-9
260


8

Bryce Cotton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cottobr01.html)
PG
6-1
165


40
Jeremy Evans (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansje01.html)
SF
6-9
200



11
Dante Exum (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/exumda01.html)
PG
6-5
214




15
Derrick Favors (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/favorde01.html)
PF
6-9
265





0
Enes Freedom (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html)

C
6-10
250




27

Rudy Gobert (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01.html)
C
7-1
258




20
Gordon Hayward (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html)
SF
6-7
225




5
Rodney Hood (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hoodro01.html)
SG
6-8
208


2
Joe Ingles (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/inglejo01.html)
SF
6-8
220



17
Grant Jerrett (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jerregr01.html)
PF
6-10
235


23
Chris Johnson (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsch04.html)
SF
6-6
206


13
Elijah Millsap (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millsel01.html)
SG
6-6
225



23
Toure' Murry (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murryto01.html)
PG
6-5
195


16
Steve Novak (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/novakst01.html)
SF
6-10
225


25
Elliot Williams (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/williel01.html)





how many of these clowns are playing in Puerto Rico with any big can do it?

[Manny98]

no that series was more Scott Brooks refusing to bench "starter only" Carmelo. They put him on an island all series. They let Westbrook shoot as well while Gobert stayed in the paint and he sucked early on. Was ok to end the series. The last time COTM made playoff adjustments
So what series was Gobert so much better than everyone else on the floor to the point you could say he "carried"

[Xiao Yao You]

So what series was Gobert so much better than everyone else on the floor to the point you could say he "carried"

They wouldn't have made the playoffs without Gobert carrying them there. They were awful with out him.

[Manny98]

So you even admit to Rudy never carrying in the playoffs, I rest my case

Mitchell, Conley,Bogdan, Royce and Whiteside would be a 7/8 seed, still elite offensively

[Xiao Yao You]

So you even admit to Rudy never carrying in the playoffs, I rest my case

Mitchell, Conley,Bogdan, Royce and Whiteside would be a 7/8 seed, still elite offensively

how would they be a 7/8 seed when they couldn't win without Gobert. Senor Whiteside! :roll:

Udoka started over Whiteside they thought so much of that cancerous POS

[Manny98]

They literally went on a 5 game win streak without him last season including beating the Warriors and Nuggets :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

They literally went on a 5 game win streak without him last season including beating the Warriors and Nuggets :facepalm

yeah take that win streak out and they were 2-9 yet you've got them in the play in with Whiteside who was behind Udoka :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

all home games including Knicks, Orlando and Brooklyn. Nice going guys! :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

two 4 game losing streaks which I can't imagine they've had many of those with Gobert

[Manny98]

You said they didn't win without him which is a slick lie because they won 5 in a row without him at one point

They dropped a couple of games without him in the beginning because they had to adjust and some of those games they didn't have a big man as Whiteside was injured as well at the time I think

They would be a 40 win team which would be a 7/8 seed in the west

[Xiao Yao You]

You said they didn't win without him which is a slick lie because they won 5 in a row without him at one point

They dropped a couple of games without him in the beginning because they had to adjust and some of those games they didn't have a big man as Whiteside was injured as well at the time I think

They would be a 40 win team which would be a 7/8 seed in the west

you think? That's where your problem is :cheers:

[Xiao Yao You]

42-24 with Gobert

[Manny98]

Yep I was right that during that losing slump they didn't have Mitchell either

So Utah were 7-3 with Mitchell and no Gobert :bowdown:

[Xiao Yao You]

52-19 the year before lost big without him
42-26 the year before that
50-21 the year before that. Lost without him
37-19 the year before that 11-15 without him
51-30 the year before that lost without him
33-28 the year before that 7-14 without him
6th best record after he became starter the year before

good luck finding comparable record with and without Mitchell! :oldlol:

[Manny98]

All of that is irrelevant as I'm talking about last year's team

7-3 with Mitchell and no Gobert

Cleveland flourishing this year whilst Timberwolves struggling to make the playoffs

https://i.postimg.cc/RFPKCtY8/donovan-mitchell-joueur-de-basket.gif

[Xiao Yao You]

the roster when they were 33-28. They struggled when they first got Mack but finished strong. Millsap wasn't the same player. I guess maybe Lindsey really did say something to him?



Trevor Booker (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/booketr01.html)
PF
6-8
228
November 25, 1987
us
5
Clemson (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=clemson)


3
Trey Burke (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burketr01.html)
PG
6-0
185
November 12, 1992
us
2
Michigan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=michigan)


10
Alec Burks (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burksal01.html)
SG
6-6
214
July 20, 1991
us
4
Colorado (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=colorado)


15
Derrick Favors (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/favorde01.html)
PF
6-9
265
July 15, 1991
us
5
Georgia Tech (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=gatech)


27
Rudy Gobert (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01.html)
C
7-1
258
June 26, 1992
fr
2



18
Erick Green (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greener01.html)
PG
6-4
185
May 9, 1991
us
1
Virginia Tech (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=vatech)


20
Gordon Hayward (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html)
SF
6-7
225
March 23, 1990
us
5
Butler (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=butler)


5
Rodney Hood (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hoodro01.html)
SG
6-8
208
October 20, 1992
us
1
Mississippi State (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=missst), Duke (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=duke)


2
Joe Ingles (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/inglejo01.html)
SF
6-8
220
October 2, 1987
au
1



23
Chris Johnson (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsch04.html)
SF
6-6
206
April 29, 1990
us
3
Dayton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=dayton)


41
Trey Lyles (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lylestr01.html)
PF
6-9
234
November 5, 1995
ca
R
Kentucky (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=kentucky)


8
Shelvin Mack (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/macksh01.html)
PG
6-3
203
April 22, 1990
us
4
Butler (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=butler)


13
Elijah Millsap (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millsel01.html)
SG
6-6
225
August 12, 1987
us
1
Louisiana (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=ulala), UAB (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=uab)


25
Raul Neto (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/netora01.html)
PG
6-1
180
May 19, 1992
br
R



22
J.J. O'Brien (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/obriejj01.html)
SF
6-7
228
April 8, 1992
us
R
San Diego State (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=sandiegost)


21
Tibor Pleiß (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pleisti01.html)
C
7-3
256
November 2, 1989
de
R



24
Jeff Withey (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/witheje01.html)

[Xiao Yao You]

All of that is irrelevant as I'm talking about last year's team

7-3 with Mitchell and no Gobert

Cleveland flourishing this year whilst Timberwolves struggling to make the playoffs

https://i.postimg.cc/RFPKCtY8/donovan-mitchell-joueur-de-basket.gif

keep moving the goal posts to suit your needs. :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

+7.1 difference between on/off last year

[DMAVS41]

+7.1 difference between on/off last year

Genuinely curious...

Why do you think Rudy has made such a small impact on the Wolves this year?

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell -.7 :cry:

you heard enough? That was Mitchell at his best in Utah

[Manny98]

I'm the one moving the goalposts now :oldlol:, you literally said that last year's Jazz were awful without Gobert yet they went 7-3 without with Mitchell playing now you're bringing up years completely irrelevant to the discussion :oldlol:

[Manny98]

+7.1 difference between on/off last year
7-3

[Xiao Yao You]

Genuinely curious...

Why do you think Rudy has made such a small impact on the Wolves this year?

haven't seen them play. Conley says they use him different. Tons of injuries. Dlo cancerous. Edwards never played with a rim runner which is hard to imagine

[Xiao Yao You]

-3.2 for your superstar the year before that

[Xiao Yao You]

-.9 the year before that. I think he was on the court more with Rudy that year so it wasn't as bad

[Xiao Yao You]

they had Gobert playing through injuries which would have never happened in Utah

[Xiao Yao You]

4 worst lineups with Gobert all had DLo. It can only get better with Conley and now Towns

[Xiao Yao You]

2 best lineups with Conley and all 3 with Conley over +4

Dlo obviously was their biggest problem

[Xiao Yao You]

Manny's MVP is -.6 this year with Cleveland! They are better with him than without him. Big surprise :D

[Xiao Yao You]

Garland +5.4

Allen + 3.5

Mobley + .4

Garland and Allen are Gobert/Conley lite. Looks like they better talk to New York in the off season and get them some size at the 2

[Xiao Yao You]

Dlo -3.5

Naz -6.6 :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

The legendary Carlos Boozer had two years with the Jazz where they were better with him on the court and one of those was .1 :facepalm

[Manny98]

You realize based off the on/off stat you are using Rudy isn't even a top 5 player on his own team

7-3

[Xiao Yao You]

You realize based off the on/off stat you are using Rudy isn't even a top 5 player on his own team

7-3

you realize Mitchell's team continues to be worse with him on the floor than off of it?

[Manny98]

you realize Mitchell's team continues to be worse with him on the floor than off of it?
Mitchell is a massive positive in every other impact stats so no

7-3

[Wally450]

I’m only taking Deron Williams, Tony Parker and Chauncey over Rondo. Rondo from 2010-2012 was arguably the best PG in the league for stretches.

[ArbitraryWater]

Genuinely curious...

Why do you think Rudy has made such a small impact on the Wolves this year?


haven't seen them play. Conley says they use him different. Tons of injuries. Dlo cancerous. Edwards never played with a rim runner which is hard to imagine


"You will have to ask someone else"



https://i.gyazo.com/82664d6febad64659446fa3cc4ab4b18.jpg

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell is a massive positive in every other impact stats so no

7-3

every other one except when he's on the court they are worse. Through all the struggles and talk of Minnesota this year Gobert is still a positive despite having to play with Russell and Naz(instead of Towns)

[Manny98]

every other one except when he's on the court they are worse. Through all the struggles and talk of Minnesota this year Gobert is still a positive despite having to play with Russell and Naz(instead of Towns)

They are not worse when he's on the court, on/off is such a basic way of measuring a players impact a d doesn't take into account difficulty of lineups playing/ the players you are on the court with and so many other things

7-3 carry on

[Xiao Yao You]

They are not worse when he's on the court, on/off is such a basic way of measuring a players impact a d doesn't take into account difficulty of lineups playing/ the players you are on the court with and so many other things

7-3 carry on

when it benefits you it's a great stat. But now that it looks bad for your boy it's basic. Garland, Allen and Mobley are all + so how could he be so bad despite being on the court with them? Why doesn't Gobert playing with Naz, Russell etc. matter when trolling him despite him still being a positive? 10 games is all you have. Really pathetic :facepalm

[Manny98]

You're acting like the stat is the be all end all for measuring a players impact when even the people who created advanced stats admit they're heavily flawed and should be taken with a grain of salt

For example your hero is the 6th best player on his own team based on that stat, but you would laugh in my face if someone said that Jaden McDaniels is better than Gobert

[Xiao Yao You]

You're acting like the stat is the be all end all for measuring a players impact when even the people who created advanced stats admit they're heavily flawed and should be taken with a grain of salt

For example your hero is the 6th best player on his own team based on that stat, but you would laugh in my face if someone said that Jaden McDaniels is better than Gobert

I don't think it's the end all. Just using what was one of your go to's before it made Mitchell and Naz look bad. Just like you love +/- until it doesn't support your trolling and it's ignored again