Would missing the PLAY IN during his peak remove Doncic from GOAT discussions?

[Carbine]

Simple question.

[1987_Lakers]

MJ would have missed the playoffs his first 3 seasons in the NBA if 70% of teams didn't make the playoffs back in the 80's, back then 16 of only 23 teams made the playoffs, that's a huge chunk of teams in a smaller league.

[RRR3]

Kareem missed the playoffs back to back years in his prime iirc. Context always matters. Thats said I don’t think Luka has a GOAT peak yet.

[HylianNightmare]

Not when playng with FlatEarthving

[Real Men Wear Green]

The topic is off because no one sane would say he's the greatest ever right now. A guy with no mvp awards or championships is nowhere near greatest ever talk.

[StrongLurk]

No because we are in a completely new era/format of basketball which started a few years ago.

This means we really can't compare what's happening now to previous generations, and it also means we can start a new GOAT list for the current format. I am not saying the current format is better or worse than previous gens, but it's for sure a new format.

So right now we pretty much have Giannis leading the new gen with Jokic behind him...you could probably slot Luka and Embiid after those two.

We'll have to see how long this new format plays out. Could be another decade or two.

[Xiao Yao You]

:facepalm

[SouBeachTalents]

It would remove him from HOF consideration imo

[Xiao Yao You]

MJ would have missed the playoffs his first 3 seasons in the NBA if 70% of teams didn't make the playoffs back in the 80's, back then 16 of only 23 teams made the playoffs, that's a huge chunk of teams in a smaller league.

and the talent would have been spread out more between teams if there were more of them so. Most players were at least 21 at that time as well. Much less watered down

[1987_Lakers]

Kareem missed the playoffs back to back years in his prime iirc. Context always matters. Thats said I don’t think Luka has a GOAT peak yet.

I don't think he will ever be in the GOAT convo simply because he isn't a great two way player, not because he might not make the playoffs playing with roster that isn't so great.

[ImKobe]

He needs to win enough to be in the GOAT conversation first. I don't think this is his peak either. If he ends up with enough accolades to be considered one of the GOATs I doubt anyone would care about this season in retrospect.

[Xiao Yao You]

He needs to win enough to be in the GOAT conversation first. I don't think this is his peak either. If he ends up with enough accolades to be considered one of the GOATs I doubt anyone would care about this season in retrospect.

Lebron fans will use it just like they desperately try to come up with reasons why MJ isn't GOAT

[ImKobe]

Lebron fans will use it just like they desperately try to come up with reasons why MJ isn't GOAT

Sure, the trolls will use it against him but he's also overachieved early in his Playoff career by getting a mediocre cast to the WCF by beating a 64-win team so that kind of evens it out IMO.

[Druckenmiller]

Would probably just offset what he did last year TBH

I hold it against him that he’s not in elite shape. To me if you’re an NBA athlete being paid like these guys are paid being in great shape is the minimum requirement for the job.

His defense is much improved when he wants it to be. But it’s not consistent.

But you’d be hard-pressed to name a similar player in the league right now playing with a worst Roster.

Imagine him right now trading places with any of the other top 20 players in the NBA and ask yourself who would do better with this Mavericks team and what would Luka do with the Bucks roster or with Philly. Or Boston.

Cuban has surrounded him with bench guys and role players. His big additions have been broken down PorzingAss and a dude who thinks the earth is flat and barely wants to play.

I’ll reserve my judgment on Luka for when he’s on a team that makes sense.

[Xiao Yao You]

Would probably just offset what he did last year TBH

I hold it against him that he’s not in elite shape. To me if you’re an NBA athlete being paid like these guys are paid being in great shape is the minimum requirement for the job.

His defense is much improved when he wants it to be. But it’s not consistent.

But you’d be hard-pressed to name a similar player in the league right now playing with a worst Roster.

Imagine him right now trading places with any of the other top 20 players in the NBA and ask yourself who would do better with this Mavericks team and what would Luka do with the Bucks roster or with Philly. Or Boston.

Cuban has surrounded him with bench guys and role players. His big additions have been broken down PorzingAss and a dude who thinks the earth is flat and barely wants to play.

I’ll reserve my judgment on Luka for when he’s on a team that makes sense.

yep him and jokic both have no excuses not to be in the best shape possible with all their money

[Phoenix]

No more than MJ starting his playoff career 1-9 would, I reckon.

[Full Court]

It removes him from all GOAT, all star, all NBA, HOF, and Nickelodian award discussions.




















:lol I kid.

[fourkicks44]

The topic is off because no one sane would say he's the greatest ever right now. A guy with no mvp awards or championships is nowhere near greatest ever talk.

Yeah but he is white (Slovenian actually, but racists don't care they will use him as a proxy anyway).

It's different set of criteria.

[baudkarma]

Peak? He just turned 24 back in February. He's got 5-7 years left at his peak to make his legacy.

That being said, I don't think anyone has him in the GOAT category. Not yet anyway. He's really, really good, but until he wins a few rings, a few MVP awards, then maybe we can talk about GOAT.

[Kblaze8855]

He’s 23. Who peaked at 23 without having the rest of their career destroyed by injury?

[Carbine]

He's 24 actually

I personally think Duncan peaked around this age.

Same with Kobe. I've always felt #8 was better.

What's Luka going to do at 26-27? Average a 35 point triple double? I doubt it.

It's within a realistic percentile that this is Luka at his best.

[Kblaze8855]

Getting better won’t mean his numbers do. It’s generally that way with guys who are amazing young. There’s a realistic limit to anyones production. Once you get into that 30ppg range you only go so much further but that doesn’t mean you don’t become more refined. Shaq did 29/13 his second season but got considerably more polished. Jordan similar. It’s not weird to have peak production early running wild with full control but to refine your game as you age and learn to play better team ball.

[DMAVS41]

One single season, especially one in which a player has been as good as Luka this year, is not going to mean much when your team isn't good enough to do anything noteworthy.

However, one fair criticism against Luka might be that he isn't making the team good enough in his time on court.

Even if you remove his first year, he only has a +3.7 points per 100 on court rating and a +2.3 on/off overall.

To compare that to Jokic, for example....Jokic has a career +6.4 points per 100 on court rating and a +10.8 on/off overall.

Given what I've seen Luka do in the playoffs, I'm not worried much...and his teams have just not been very good. But 5 years in now and you'd like to see the Mavs be a bit better when he's on the court at least.

In fairness though...I really do not think the rosters he's had are even close to good enough to judge him on wins....and the one decent one he's had, last year, they made the conference finals.

[Wally450]

He's at his peak already?

[Axe]

I don't think he will ever be in the GOAT convo simply because he isn't a great two way player, not because he might not make the playoffs playing with roster that isn't so great.
Actually, he already did during the 2020 disney bubble.

[FireDavidKahn]

Luka just turned 24.

He isn't peak:roll:

[Carbine]

Getting better won’t mean his numbers do. It’s generally that way with guys who are amazing young. There’s a realistic limit to anyones production. Once you get into that 30ppg range you only go so much further but that doesn’t mean you don’t become more refined. Shaq did 29/13 his second season but got considerably more polished. Jordan similar. It’s not weird to have peak production early running wild with full control but to refine your game as you age and learn to play better team ball.

Luka is about as polished and skilled as you can be. .

Jordan was probably the goat basketball athlete with very good skill (besides outside shooting) in his early days. His skill eventually caught up around 91 or so and he lost only a very small percentage of his athletic ability by that time.

Luka has no such curve. His athletic ability isn't going to rise a few levels to reach his skill level.

Luka may or may not improve his 3 pt shooting as time goes on. Well see. If he doesn't then this is pretty much what Luka is.

[Spurs m8]

The best way to tell me you're a moron is to act like someone's peak is at 24 years old

[LeGoat4Life]

Lebron missed the playoff his first two season on a historic weak east conference

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jumping the shark to already be thinking GOAT talk.

Nevermind claiming this is his peak. Luka just turned 24 and if his career is like MOST all-timers....then his peak wont be for another few years. Or his late 20s.

[WhiteKyrie]

Peak? He’s 24. And missed games due to injury wtf

[Axe]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?475857-Luka-is-already-better-than-Kobe-ever-was-how-much-longer-til-he-passes-MJ

[kawhileonard2]

MJ would have missed the playoffs his first 3 seasons in the NBA if 70% of teams didn't make the playoffs back in the 80's, back then 16 of only 23 teams made the playoffs, that's a huge chunk of teams in a smaller league.

Lebron missed the playoffs his first two years and has missed the playoffs as much as won titles.

[DevBooker'sMask]

dumb cvnt of a thread

[Axe]

Anyone he plays rn are mostly better than folks from the light and soft 90s. The competition today is a lot better than it was before.

[Overdrive]

He's 24 actually

I personally think Duncan peaked around this age.

Same with Kobe. I've always felt #8 was better.

What's Luka going to do at 26-27? Average a 35 point triple double? I doubt it.

It's within a realistic percentile that this is Luka at his best.

You think Duncan peaked in 2000? Or even 99 or 2001 - around this age?

[Phoenix]

He's 24 actually

I personally think Duncan peaked around this age.

Same with Kobe. I've always felt #8 was better.

What's Luka going to do at 26-27? Average a 35 point triple double? I doubt it.

It's within a realistic percentile that this is Luka at his best.

MJ's stats in the 80s were better, but nobody would say 88 MJ doing 35/6/6 was better than 92 MJ doing 30/6/6. 4 years from now Luka could be doing 28/8/7 depending on the team, and absolutely be a better player then compared to now. We won't know until that time comes. But while he is what he is athletically and clearly has an extremely high skill ceiling, there are also clearly ways he can improve, or utilize his skills more effectively even if he's already capped( which I find hard to believe would be the case at 24). Luka already plays at a very deliberate pace and he likely hasn't reached the point where the game has 'slowed down' for him yet.

[Carbine]

You think Duncan peaked in 2000? Or even 99 or 2001 - around this age?

As a player sure. He was at his best combination of skills + athletic ability around this time.

[hold this L]

He was never in that discussion in the first place.

[jayfan]

Seriously, though. The Mavs are imploding like rarely seen.

They just played a home-n-home against Charlotte.

Night 1 in Dallas, Mavs are -17, and lose the game.
Night 2 in Charlotte, Mavs are -12.5, and lose the game.

You can't fire Cuban, but heads need to roll. Even with Kyrie on your team, this is unacceptable.

.