So are we all waiting another year or so to rank SGA?

[Kblaze8855]

31/6/5 2 steals a game the exact same TS% of 2017 Curry(lower than his usual I grant but higher than last season). So he’s not inefficient. Team currently hovering around .500 and in the play in despite his 2-4 all being like 20-23 year olds still finding their way(including Dort who feels like he should be a lot older).

You wouldn’t recognize more than 2 of his teammates head shots so I feel it’s a bit unfair to play the “What is he winning?” card yet but…that must be it right? The reason he doesn’t seem to get a national ranking?

Hes not boring to watch. He can also play defense. His team isn’t good but it’s respectable and probably better than it should be.

Is it as simple as his team just isn’t good enough yet?

[DMAVS41]

Probably more of a reflection of him being injured and not being in the playoffs the last couple years since he's improved.

Definitely deserves more credit...hopefully we get to see them in the play-in.

[Full Court]

He's top 15 right now in my opinion.

[Kblaze8855]

I suppose there’s also the “30 is the new 24” aspect to consider. But a 24/6/5 young guy would have been a somebody years ago too. At least I believe so. I wonder what Corey Maggette was doing at his peak. Couldn’t have been far from that and he…was not a somebody.

[Full Court]

I suppose there’s also the “30 is the new 24” aspect to consider. But a 24/6/5 young guy would have been a somebody years ago too. At least I believe so. I wonder what Corey Maggette was doing at his peak. Couldn’t have been far from that and he…was not a somebody.

Even if you account for the current inflated stats era, he's still overachieved with his team. He's doing better with OKC than most people would expect given who he's surrounded with.

[fourkicks44]

When he played in Philadelphia earlier this season it was the most dominant performance I have seen against the Sixers all year. They were helpless against him.

That along with the numbers, he gets my nod. Top 10 for sure. He is a little too short for my liking tho.

[Xiao Yao You]

Him and Murray are the guys that would have made sense for the Knicks to go after instead of Mitchell. He was rumored to be available

[BigShotBob]

We're not ranking this guy

[RRR3]

I suppose there’s also the “30 is the new 24” aspect to consider. But a 24/6/5 young guy would have been a somebody years ago too. At least I believe so. I wonder what Corey Maggette was doing at his peak. Couldn’t have been far from that and he…was not a somebody.
22.2/6.0/3.4 was Maggette's peak for counting stats. With a 57.4 TS% in a league that averaged 52.9%.

[imdaman99]

Meanwhile we got the NBA dropping an hour long video compilation of Austin Reaves :roll: the NBA doesn't care about what happens in OKC if you aren't selling jerseys

[ShawkFactory]

We're not ranking this guy

Because you need another year?

[Manny98]

He's in the same tier with, Morant, Mitchell, PG, Booker, Harden top 15-20 player

[BigShotBob]

Because you need another year?

Because his team isn't winning enough. We don't rank players on teams that can barely make it to .500

[BigShotBob]

He's in the same tier with, Morant, Mitchell, PG, Booker, Harden top 15-20 player

Insanity

[Kblaze8855]

Because his team isn't winning enough. We don't rank players on teams that can barely make it to .500

That has not traditionally been the case at all.

[fourkicks44]

Ask yourself this, how has he not been better than Steph Curry this season?

[Kblaze8855]

Insanity


A week ago:



https://youtu.be/6sue482MrII



It certainly isn’t insanity to mention them as peers.

[ShawkFactory]

Because his team isn't winning enough. We don't rank players on teams that can barely make it to .500

So you didn’t rank Tmac back in 03? Just one of a million cases I could bring up.

[Xiao Yao You]

Insanity

yep he's certainly better than Mitchell

[StrongLurk]

I ranked him top ten currently like way back in January.

[tontoz]

I think he makes 2nd team All NBA. I doubt he makes first team even though you could make that argument.

I haven't watched OKC much but I do watch NBA game time almost every day and his highlights are no joke. Very crafty with the ball and seems to be a capable shooter from anywhere.

[iamgine]

I have SGA top 10. Fully entrenched in the 6-8 spot.

But there are just more exciting players in more exciting teams to talk about.

[BigShotBob]

That has not traditionally been the case at all.

So when Charles Barkley talks about players not being good just because they put up stats on a mediocre team, that hasn't traditionally been the case?


A week ago:



https://youtu.be/6sue482MrII


It certainly isn’t insanity to mention them as peers.

We're going by regular season games now? Devin Booker has 2 40 point games in the Finals. Let's hold our breath on SGA's gaudy regular season stats.



So you didn’t rank Tmac back in 03? Just one of a million cases I could bring up.

Watch T-Mac play against the Pistons in the first round and tell me who was more impressive between him and SGA so far and then get back to me.



yep he's certainly better than Mitchell

How many playoff games has SGA won again?

[tontoz]

Booker was a playoff virgin for years until his supporting cast improved.

[Kblaze8855]

So when Charles Barkley talks about players not being good just because they put up stats on a mediocre team, that hasn't traditionally been the case?


Charles Barkley put up 28/12 on 59% shooting while his team won 36 games. I suspect he would tell you he justified a “ranking” even then. As would anyone with common sense. A team full of young or bad players doesn’t mean you can’t be judged individually.



We're going by regular season games now? Devin Booker has 2 40 point games in the Finals. Let's hold our breath on SGA's gaudy regular season stats.

We’re talking about basketball. People talking about basketball use…basketball playing to judge it. People with eyes have been able to see who was great immediately since before the baskets had a hole cut in the bottom. Larry Bird after the 48tj game of Jordan’s career…..




Bird recently volunteered his vote for Jordan as the finest athlete he`d ever witnessed or opposed, mentioning the Bulls` electric rookie in the same monologue as Wayne Gretzky. After observing Jordan gyrate for 41 points, a game-high 12 rebounds and 7 assists Tuesday night, Bird was in no mood for second opinions.

''Best,'' said Bird. ''Never seen anyone like him. Unlike anyone I`ve ever seen. Phenomenal. One of a kind.''

In other words . . .

''One of a kind,'' he repeated. ''That`s what I mean about the league. With guys like him coming in from college year after year, we just can`t help but get a better image, better crowds, better TV ratings. He`s the best. Ever.''

Better than Larry Bird?

''Yup,'' said Bird. ''At his stage in his career, he`s doing more than I ever did. I couldn`t do what he did as a rookie. Heck, there was one drive tonight. He had the ball up in his right hand, then he took it down, then he brought it back up. I got a hand on it, fouled him, and he still scored. And all the while, he`s in the air. You have to play this game to know how difficult that is. You see that and figure, `Well, what the heck can you do?` ''




But now we can’t use our eyes till his teammates improve?

Please. You and the rest of earth have been able to recognize greatness on bad teams forever. Why people feel a need to get on the internet and bullshit is beyond me.

[Axe]

Because his team isn't winning enough. We don't rank players on teams that can barely make it to .500
Sounds a lot like jordan's career without scottie pippen.

[ShawkFactory]

Watch T-Mac play against the Pistons in the first round and tell me who was more impressive between him and SGA so far and then get back to me.



Wow..way to move the absolute shit out of the goalposts.

[Kblaze8855]

Wow..way to move the absolute shit out of the goalposts.


Imagine him watching this game 2 months into Tmacs franchise player career and then telling you he doesn’t know if he’s a good player or not yet:



https://youtu.be/6T556neHd4s

[Xiao Yao You]

How many playoff games has SGA won again?

when was Mitchell anything but a sidekick?

[Kblaze8855]

Take your absurd Gobert shit elsewhere. You can’t keep derailing topics with these takes.

[ShawkFactory]

when was Mitchell anything but a sidekick?

He had like 37 a game in the series against Denver in 2020. Had 29 one series and 35 the next a year later.

I'm confused by this statement.

[Xiao Yao You]

He had like 37 a game in the series against Denver in 2020. Had 29 one series and 35 the next a year later.

I'm confused by this statement.

leading scorer. How many did Murray score on him in the same series? The Cavs like the Jazz worse with him on the floor

[tontoz]

leading scorer. How many did Murray score on him in the same series? The Cavs like the Jazz worse with him on the floor

DMitch has a BPM of 6.0 with the Cavs which is best on the team by far.

[ShawkFactory]

leading scorer. How many did Murray score on him in the same series? The Cavs like the Jazz worse with him on the floor

I'm sorry but a guy who scores 37 ppg in 7 games is not a sidekick to anyone in that series.

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm sorry but a guy who scores 37 ppg in 7 games is not a sidekick to anyone in that series.

we're still counting the bubble? They did lose that series

[ArbitraryWater]

DMitch has a BPM of 6.0 with the Cavs which is best on the team by far.

xiao dipping again when the facts hit

[ArbitraryWater]

"When is Mitchell ever anything but a sidekick"
"Mitchell this"
"Mitchell that"


"Im sorry Xiao, did you not notice *present facts, stats, how could this could be the case then?"



"Sorry I dont watch Mitchell, ask someone else"




:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

https://i.gyazo.com/0dbea4b3c2193b320c934a98ac33af52.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

we're still counting the bubble? They did lose that series

So? That wasn't the question.

He also averaged 30 against the Griz the next year in a series win. Then 35 in a loss to Clippers wherein, if I remember correctly, Rudy was unplayable at times late in games. He was no one's "sidekick".

I actually agree that I don't think Mitchell is good enough overall to beat great or even very good teams in the playoffs as the best player. Which is why the Jazz kept losing.

[BigShotBob]

Booker was a playoff virgin for years until his supporting cast improved.

And he was hard to rank wasn't he?

Tatum was ranked highly earlier because he was playing well in the playoffs when he was 20 years old. He was raw but the potential was there.


Charles Barkley put up 28/12 on 59% shooting while his team won 36 games. I suspect he would tell you he justified a “ranking” even then. As would anyone with common sense. A team full of young or bad players doesn’t mean you can’t be judged individually.

Yes you can. It's not about the player being worse than he is, it's about how well they can play when the pressure is on. Barkley solidified himself by playing well even in the playoffs. And also the year after that 36 win season you're talking about (which was an outlier btw) the 76ers won 46 games and the year after that they won 50+ games.



We’re talking about basketball. People talking about basketball use…basketball playing to judge it. People with eyes have been able to see who was great immediately since before the baskets had a hole cut in the bottom. Larry Bird after the 48tj game of Jordan’s career…..

But now we can’t use our eyes till his teammates improve?

Please. You and the rest of earth have been able to recognize greatness on bad teams forever. Why people feel a need to get on the internet and bullshit is beyond me.

Your lack of nuance is tiresome. I don't understand why you're pretending like you don't know what I'm talking about.

We're in a league now where 6 players are averaging 30 or more points, in the easiest scoring era in the history of the game, where the game makes it easier than ever to take advantage of space with a soft whistle, and yet you want to celebrate a guard averaging 30+ on good efficiency while barely maintaining a .500 record and you're asking people to rank him against players that are more solidified than him because of the....regular season?

As a guard he's where De'Aaron Fox, Zach Lavine,and Trae Young are. Dynamic but questionable. Anything more is unproven speculation based on the idea of his skill (what he could/should/would/maybe do) than reality (what he is doing/what he has yet to do).

The information is incomplete but we want to reward players for putting up stats in the most stat inflated era ever when they haven't been tested yet.


Imagine him watching this game 2 months into Tmacs franchise player career and then telling you he doesn’t know if he’s a good player or not yet:



https://youtu.be/6T556neHd4s

Now you're just being dishonest. I refused to rank SGA, I never said that he wasn't good.

[Xiao Yao You]

So? That wasn't the question.

He also averaged 30 against the Griz the next year in a series win. Then 35 in a loss to Clippers wherein, if I remember correctly, Rudy was unplayable at times late in games. He was no one's "sidekick".

I actually agree that I don't think Mitchell is good enough overall to beat great or even very good teams in the playoffs as the best player. Which is why the Jazz kept losing.

Gobert isn't unplayable. He couldn't guard Mitchell's man and his own at the same time. The Jazz lost for a variety of reasons. They weren't good enough, too many guys relying on 1 guy to defend their guy as well as his and a coach that refused to make adjustments

[tontoz]

And he was hard to rank wasn't he?

Not really.

The Suns lost as the favorites in the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, getting destroyed last year against an underwhelming Mavs team in games 6 and 7. Since you seem to think game 7s are so important what do you have to say about Bookers 3-14 performance in last year's game 7?

[Kblaze8855]

Now you're just being dishonest. I refused to rank SGA, I never said that he wasn't good.



I’m being dishonest….while you’re acknowledging the ability to evaluate him(to find him good) but an inability to rank how good he is…as if they aren’t the same thing.

Point blank…you…me…the earth? We have all been ranking players on bad teams our entire lives. People with eyes have been able to see greatness from the jump. Having young teammates who aren’t ready never stopped anyone from being evaluated and never will. Be it Barkley, Jordan, Kareem….Tmac, Nique, or Kobe….SGA, Booker, or whoever else.

[Axe]

Just imagine if mitchell gets to the conference finals within the next two years. That would be a big blow to 2d's legacy lol.

[Xiao Yao You]

Just imagine if mitchell gets to the conference finals within the next two years. That would be a big blow to 2d's legacy lol.

not likely with their small backcourt. Him or Garland will have to go. Garland is better. Not sure why it would be a blow to Gobert though? Cavs have more talent than the Jazz ever had. If he'd had a Mobley or even a legitimate 4 next to him they would have been a different team. Never had until this year. The East is also a lot weaker than the west has been outside the top 3 teams

[BigShotBob]

I’m being dishonest….while you’re acknowledging the ability to evaluate him(to find him good) but an inability to rank how good he is…as if they aren’t the same thing.

Point blank…you…me…the earth? We have all been ranking players on bad teams our entire lives. People with eyes have been able to see greatness from the jump. Having young teammates who aren’t ready never stopped anyone from being evaluated and never will. Be it Barkley, Jordan, Kareem….Tmac, Nique, or Kobe….SGA, Booker, or whoever else.

My issue is that this is a breakout year for SGA but who can we say he is justifiably better than that "broke out" years ago and are still performing at a high level consistently and have proven themselves in the post season?

That's why it's hard for me to say he's higher than a Booker, Mitchell, Brown, or Ja (and I don't even like Ja that much). I can't even be sure if I can put him above Demar, who has had a second prime/peak.

How can I rank someone based on breaking out in the regular season? When Julius Randle had his break out year in NY he folded tremendously against the Hawks in the playoffs. It's not like he played well and lost, he played atrociously. His stock was rising and then it plummeted back down to Earth.

SGA could go on a tear to end the year, and then choke in the Play-In tournament. Or he could go on a tear, make the playoffs, and then average 22 points on 40% shooting enroute to getting swept against a superior team. Meanwhile, the Mitchells, Bookers, Browns, Morants, and Derozans/Lavines could severely out perform him. Would anyone be able to justify him being better than them if that happens?

We just don't have enough info yet.

I feel the same way about De'Aaron Fox and Jalen Brunson for instance but at least Brunson has lead a team without an all-star to playoff wins. SGA hasn't done that once. So is SGA better than Brunson?

[tontoz]

What if Shai makes the playoffs and goes 3-14 at home in game 7 and loses? Would that hurt his ranking or help it?

[BigShotBob]

What if Shai makes the playoffs and goes 3-14 at home in game 7 and loses? Would that hurt his ranking or help it?

It will hurt him like it hurt Booker. But Booker is still ranked higher than him as he should be.

[tontoz]

It will hurt him like it hurt Booker. But Booker is still ranked higher than him as he should be.


Based on what? Being older?

[BigShotBob]

Based on what? Being older?

Based on what he has proved

[tontoz]

Based on what he has proved

What exactly has ne proved, that he can play 5 straight years without even making the playoffs, then lose as the favorites two years in a row once he gets there? That he rolls over like a dog at home in game 7?

Phoenix is only 3 games ahead of OKC in spite of a far superior supporting cast. What does that prove?

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/OuC8x-hL2Io


He and Giddey have that team a lot better than it’s supposed to be. They should be a year or two from the playoffs.

SGA came alive that second half and looked like an old school pure scorer operating in traffic.

That level of tough shot making combined with the nba outlawing defense? This guy is gonna be a problem for a long time if healthy. They should get killed if they make the playoffs(and they absolutely shouldn’t beat Minnesota) but they are respectable when they should be a 20 something win team.

[tontoz]

SGA might actually make 1st team All-NBA. I still suspect he ends up as 2nd team.

[Dbrog]

He and Giddey have that team a lot better than it’s supposed to be. They should be a year or two from the playoffs.

SGA came alive that second half and looked like an old school pure scorer operating in traffic.

That level of tough shot making combined with the nba outlawing defense? This guy is gonna be a problem for a long time if healthy. They should get killed if they make the playoffs(and they absolutely shouldn’t beat Minnesota) but they are respectable when they should be a 20 something win team.

Definitely has a little DWade wiggle in him with some of those drives, especially the spin move around 2 defenders and off the glass.

Giddey looking like a real nice swiss army knife type which is impressive for such a young guy. He played overseas a bit though right? When they get Holmgren back this team could get veeeery interesting

[jayfan]

That's one twitchy mofo. No doubt.

I loved him back with LAC. Hated that they let him go in the Kawhi deal.

[StrongLurk]

I put SGA in the top ten currently way back in January. Just looking at this season in a vacuum, SGA has been a legit superstar.

[BigShotBob]

My issue is that this is a breakout year for SGA but who can we say he is justifiably better than that "broke out" years ago and are still performing at a high level consistently and have proven themselves in the post season?

.....

SGA could go on a tear to end the year, and then choke in the Play-In tournament. Or he could go on a tear, make the playoffs, and then average 22 points on 40% shooting enroute to getting swept against a superior team. Meanwhile, the Mitchells, Bookers, Browns, Morants, and Derozans/Lavines could severely out perform him. Would anyone be able to justify him being better than them if that happens?


Wow it's like I know what I'm talking about :oldlol:

[Meticode]

I think he needs a couple more years to get recognized. Beal had a couple years dropping 31/5/5/1 at 49%/35%/89%. He's not really recognized now as an star player right now.

[FireDavidKahn]

I think he needs a couple more years to get recognized. Beal had a couple years dropping 31/5/5/1 at 49%/35%/89%. He's not really recognized now as an star player right now.

Beal is kinda similar to Mitchell. They aren't really "floor raisers" of a team like a true super star but put them in the right situation and they are amazing "ceiling raisers".

The Cavs were the absolute perfect fit for Mitchell for example

[Kblaze8855]

Wow it's like I know what I'm talking about :oldlol:


No. It really isn’t. Listing a bunch of negative “What if…”s for someone on a team that should’ve probably won 25-30 games and was inevitably going to fail to do anything isn’t knowing the game. It’s leaning on the easiest prediction to make in sports to manufacture justification for criticism.

No different than a Tmac hater saying he was gonna fall off in the playoffs because losing was inevitable on his magic and stars generally go down shooting on shit teams vs good ones. Then Tmac has his 12-34 game vs the loaded Bucks then his haters pretend they were right. Or Vince vs the Knicks. Or any of a dozen examples. Star guard on awful team loses and goes down shooting poorly vs a team they should have been destroyed by? Not a shocking outcome.

Just an easy ass prediction that requires no analysis or knowing anything about his game or anyone else’s.

[Wardell Curry]

No. It really isn’t. Listing a bunch of negative “What if…”s for someone on a team that should’ve probably won 25-30 games and was inevitably going to fail to do anything isn’t knowing the game. It’s leaning on the easiest prediction to make in sports to manufacture justification for criticism.

No different than a Tmac hater saying he was gonna fall off in the playoffs because losing was inevitable on his magic and stars generally go down shooting on shit teams vs good ones. Then Tmac has his 12-34 game vs the loaded Bucks then his haters pretend they were right. Or Vince vs the Knicks. Or any of a dozen examples. Star guard on awful team loses and goes down shooting poorly vs a team they should have been destroyed by? Not a shocking outcome.

Just an easy ass prediction that requires no analysis or knowing anything about his game or anyone else’s.

Whatever do you mean? Only star players impact the outcome of games. Supporting casts do not matter at all. The NBA isn't a team based league and basketball isn't a 5 on 5 game. Didn't you know that already?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't have a firm ranking of anyone but I'm guessing he is second or third team AllNBA. He won't be first because he's too new to great player status. That's not fair but it's a real factor and 30ppg isn't the argument ending stat it used to be with around 6 players doing it and probably a few guys that are close.

[tontoz]

No. It really isn’t. Listing a bunch of negative “What if…”s for someone on a team that should’ve probably won 25-30 games

.

Vegas had the over under at 23.5 games before the season. They won 40. Vegas doesn't get punkd like that very often.

[90sgoat]

5/19 but 12/12 FTs tells me quite a bit about Shai.

I did notice him playing against the Mavs, he is a dynamic player, but it could seem like he is just another guard living at the free throw line.

[BigShotBob]

No. It really isn’t. Listing a bunch of negative “What if…”s for someone on a team that should’ve probably won 25-30 games and was inevitably going to fail to do anything isn’t knowing the game. It’s leaning on the easiest prediction to make in sports to manufacture justification for criticism.

No different than a Tmac hater saying he was gonna fall off in the playoffs because losing was inevitable on his magic and stars generally go down shooting on shit teams vs good ones. Then Tmac has his 12-34 game vs the loaded Bucks then his haters pretend they were right. Or Vince vs the Knicks. Or any of a dozen examples. Star guard on awful team loses and goes down shooting poorly vs a team they should have been destroyed by? Not a shocking outcome.

Just an easy ass prediction that requires no analysis or knowing anything about his game or anyone else’s.

Oh that's rich.

SGA averages 10 FTA a game and makes about 9 of them. He had a good game against the Pelicans in the second half, but he was put in jail against the Timberwolves but surprise, surprise, shot 10 bail-out free throws and made all 10 of them.

It's almost as if in the regular season he was a product of a league that....favors offenses. He had a breakout offensive year in a league that favors offensive players almost more than ever and again, he averaged 10 FTA a game, and a portion of his game aside from getting in the lane was taking tough shots in the lane.

And yet you're asking people to rank him when I said how can anyone do so honestly without their view looking incredibly myopic.

Name one argument for SGA over Booker, Mitchell, Dame, Ja, Kyrie, Luka, Steph, Tatum, Brown, Fox, Derozan, Butler, PG, Brunson, etc etc

Maybe he belongs in Lavine's tier. Who knows. But he can't be ranked.

[1987_Lakers]

BigShotBob continues to shit on every current player possible. Dude just had a great season playing on mediocre team, exceeded expectations. I for sure know he hasn't watched him play considering he called Tatum a poor defender a couple of years ago.

[Real Men Wear Green]

5/19 but 12/12 FTs tells me quite a bit about Shai.

I did notice him playing against the Mavs, he is a dynamic player, but it could seem like he is just another guard living at the free throw line.

He shoots 51% on the season. I don't do a lot of research myself but, come on.

[tontoz]

Anyone who actually looks at his production compared to last year can see he made a clear choice to change his shot selection. He cut his 3 pt attempts in half and attacked the basket more which led to more free throws.

Smart move for a guy who struggles from 3 but excels at taking it to the basket.

Let's not forget he shot 11-22 in the first playoff game against a strong defense. His primary defender was Herb Jones, one of the best defenders in the league.

[Kblaze8855]

Oh that's rich.

SGA averages 10 FTA a game and makes about 9 of them. He had a good game against the Pelicans in the second half, but he was put in jail against the Timberwolves but surprise, surprise, shot 10 bail-out free throws and made all 10 of them.

It's almost as if in the regular season he was a product of a league that....favors offenses. He had a breakout offensive year in a league that favors offensive players almost more than ever and again, he averaged 10 FTA a game, and a portion of his game aside from getting in the lane was taking tough shots in the lane.

And yet you're asking people to rank him when I said how can anyone do so honestly without their view looking incredibly myopic.

Name one argument for SGA over Booker, Mitchell, Dame, Ja, Kyrie, Luka, Steph, Tatum, Brown, Fox, Derozan, Butler, PG, Brunson, etc etc

Maybe he belongs in Lavine's tier. Who knows. But he can't be ranked.




The same argument used to put him over or under anyone else:




https://www.hostpic.org/images/2304151944240282.png

[ShawkFactory]

Oh that's rich.

SGA averages 10 FTA a game and makes about 9 of them. He had a good game against the Pelicans in the second half, but he was put in jail against the Timberwolves but surprise, surprise, shot 10 bail-out free throws and made all 10 of them.

It's almost as if in the regular season he was a product of a league that....favors offenses. He had a breakout offensive year in a league that favors offensive players almost more than ever and again, he averaged 10 FTA a game, and a portion of his game aside from getting in the lane was taking tough shots in the lane.

And yet you're asking people to rank him when I said how can anyone do so honestly without their view looking incredibly myopic.

Name one argument for SGA over Booker, Mitchell, Dame, Ja, Kyrie, Luka, Steph, Tatum, Brown, Fox, Derozan, Butler, PG, Brunson, etc etc

Maybe he belongs in Lavine's tier. Who knows. But he can't be ranked.

Dude...just watch him. They got dominated last night because because Minnesota has 2 seven footers and OKC doesn’t have a big man at all. Their biggest regular rotation guy is Giddey. Saric is literally the only frontcourt guy who got minutes. And they’re going against KAT and Gobert who (surprise) both played very well.

He’s a far better player than Lavine. Again..just watch him. Using an off shooting night against someone is weird.

I really get the feeling that you didn’t watch too many OKC games. Which is fine, why would you I guess.

[90sgoat]

He shoots 51% on the season. I don't do a lot of research myself but, come on.

Like I said, I liked him when I watched him play, very aggressive and skilled and most of all - fun, but the playoffs are what matters and a Luka he is not.

Luka's first playoff game was: 42 points on 13/21 FGs against Los Angeles Clippers. At age 21 with an equally bad team.

I mean, lets not act as if its impossible to do better on a very bad team.

1 game sample, but judging from this, would you bet on Shai being an all time great?

We will watch with excitement and expectations, but temperaments have been tempered.

[tontoz]

Like I said, I liked him when I watched him play, very aggressive and skilled and most of all - fun, but the playoffs are what matters and a Luka he is not.

Luka's first playoff game was: 42 points on 13/21 FGs against Los Angeles Clippers. At age 21 with an equally bad team.

I mean, lets not act as if its impossible to do better on a very bad team.

1 game sample, but judging from this, would you bet on Shai being an all time great?

We will watch with excitement and expectations, but temperaments have been tempered.


If you want to look at one game I can do that too. He scored an efficient 32 against an elite defender in the first play in game and actually played defense himself.

[Kblaze8855]

1 game sample, but judging from this, would you bet on Shai being an all time great?



That should be posted whenever anyone discusses what’s wrong with modern sports fans. How did so many people get like this….

[SouBeachTalents]

That should be posted whenever anyone discusses what’s wrong with modern sports fans. How did so many people get like this….
That’s the same guy who uses McCollum outplaying Jokic in a Game 7 4 years ago as evidence Jokic isn’t the real deal.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Like I said, I liked him when I watched him play, very aggressive and skilled and most of all - fun, but the playoffs are what matters and a Luka he is not.

Luka's first playoff game was: 42 points on 13/21 FGs against Los Angeles Clippers. At age 21 with an equally bad team.

I mean, lets not act as if its impossible to do better on a very bad team.

1 game sample, but judging from this, would you bet on Shai being an all time great?

We will watch with excitement and expectations, but temperaments have been tempered.

Who said anything about Luka Doncic? Though if we're just judging them on this season and not considering what their done in the past (past is why I'm guessing Doncic goes higher on AllNBA) as a 30ppg score that also defend SGA did not play worse than Doncic for this season.

[PeroAntic]

I don't know where exactly I would rank him but it would be definitely above Booker. Booker is the most overrated player in the league.

[DMAVS41]

Like I said, I liked him when I watched him play, very aggressive and skilled and most of all - fun, but the playoffs are what matters and a Luka he is not.

Luka's first playoff game was: 42 points on 13/21 FGs against Los Angeles Clippers. At age 21 with an equally bad team.

I mean, lets not act as if its impossible to do better on a very bad team.

1 game sample, but judging from this, would you bet on Shai being an all time great?

We will watch with excitement and expectations, but temperaments have been tempered.


On the short list of dumbest posts ever on ISH. What the **** are you talking about?

1 game sample? He wasn't even that bad considering the circumstances and a sample of 1 is beyond idiotic to judge a player...especially a young player.

Lebron James has played far worse games in much bigger moments. Lebron had like 8 points as a veteran in game 4 of the 2011 finals.....just abysmal...likely cost his team the title with that performance because they would have gone up 3-1.

Dude, Lebron, at worst, is going to go down as a top 3 player ever. GTFO with this shit. How the hell is someone diehard enough to be on a message forum not understand this shit?

[BigShotBob]

Dude...just watch him. They got dominated last night because because Minnesota has 2 seven footers and OKC doesn’t have a big man at all. Their biggest regular rotation guy is Giddey. Saric is literally the only frontcourt guy who got minutes. And they’re going against KAT and Gobert who (surprise) both played very well.

He’s a far better player than Lavine. Again..just watch him. Using an off shooting night against someone is weird.

I really get the feeling that you didn’t watch too many OKC games. Which is fine, why would you I guess.

I didn't include Lavine on purpose, and I do watch SGA. He's a bit of a FT merchant, but I'm not terribly against him, but this thread is about where he ranks.

Give me a solid argument for SGA over Derozan that isn't linked with recency bias, because while Demar was dropping a 40 point game against the Bucks last season in the playoffs, SGA wasn't doing anything. Now give me a solid argument for SGA over Booker, or SGA over Fox, or SGA over Brunson, who was beating the Jazz in the playoffs without Luka with Reggie Bullock and Dorian-Finey Smith.

I could go on. But let's pretend like we don't know the premise of this thread being nothing about gaudy stats in a stat inflated era begging to crown a young guard just because he averages over 30 and gets to the line a lot


I don't know where exactly I would rank him but it would be definitely above Booker. Booker is the most overrated player in the league.

Insanity. Just say you don't like Booker personally and keep it moving.


On the short list of dumbest posts ever on ISH. What the **** are you talking about?

1 game sample? He wasn't even that bad considering the circumstances and a sample of 1 is beyond idiotic to judge a player...especially a young player.

Lebron James has played far worse games in much bigger moments. Lebron had like 8 points as a veteran in game 4 of the 2011 finals.....just abysmal...likely cost his team the title with that performance because they would have gone up 3-1.

Dude, Lebron, at worst, is going to go down as a top 3 player ever. GTFO with this shit. How the hell is someone diehard enough to be on a message forum not understand this shit?

Where does SGA rank then for one recent breakout regular season. I'd love to hear your reasoning that isn't steeped in recency bias.


The same argument used to put him over or under anyone else:

....

No one has made one single coherent argument yet for SGA over any of those guys I listed

[Kblaze8855]

If you’re going to “recency bias” away how well anyones plays recently you might as well not talk about how good anyone is. All you’re concerned with is how good someone used to be. And nobody is what they used to be. You’re only what you are.

[DMAVS41]

What does where I rank him have to do with your statement that you are judging him off of one game?.

I simply pointed out the idiotic nature of your comment. If you are going to judge or rank SGA...you need to take his entire career to this point into consideration. The biggest knock against him would be his health over the last 3 years.

I'd say that he's been a very good young player that took a noticeable leap this year and he might get first team all-nba...and I don't think anyone could argue a ton if he does. This year he had a somewhat decent team around him and I think he got them to perform very well as the clear cut best player.

We'll see what happens, but to use a 1 game sample to judge a 24 year old player that just took the leap is simply stupid...even worse, you used his most recent game to rank him, and then accused everyone else of "recency bias" is hilarious.

[Lebron23]

What does where I rank him have to do with your statement that you are judging him off of one game?.

I simply pointed out the idiotic nature of your comment. If you are going to judge or rank SGA...you need to take his entire career to this point into consideration. The biggest knock against him would be his health over the last 3 years.

I'd say that he's been a very good young player that took a noticeable leap this year and he might get first team all-nba...and I don't think anyone could argue a ton if he does. This year he had a somewhat decent team around him and I think he got them to perform very well as the clear cut best player.

We'll see what happens, but to use a 1 game sample to judge a 24 year old player that just took the leap is simply stupid...even worse, you used his most recent game to rank him, and then accused everyone else of "recency bias" is hilarious.

Bigshot is an idiot.

[tontoz]

Bigshotbob apparently isn't aware that booker played only 53 games. Setting aside the fact that Shai was better, he played in 15 more games.

[Axe]

Insanity. Just say you don't like Booker personally and keep it moving.
Two casuals disagreeing about a modern player. :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

I didn't include Lavine on purpose, and I do watch SGA. He's a bit of a FT merchant, but I'm not terribly against him, but this thread is about where he ranks.

Give me a solid argument for SGA over Derozan that isn't linked with recency bias, because while Demar was dropping a 40 point game against the Bucks last season in the playoffs, SGA wasn't doing anything. Now give me a solid argument for SGA over Booker, or SGA over Fox, or SGA over Brunson, who was beating the Jazz in the playoffs without Luka with Reggie Bullock and Dorian-Finey Smith.

I could go on. But let's pretend like we don't know the premise of this thread being nothing about gaudy stats in a stat inflated era begging to crown a young guard just because he averages over 30 and gets to the line a lot



Insanity. Just say you don't like Booker personally and keep it moving.



Where does SGA rank then for one recent breakout regular season. I'd love to hear your reasoning that isn't steeped in recency bias.



No one has made one single coherent argument yet for SGA over any of those guys I listed

Recent bias? The fvck are you talking about...

My argument for SGA being better than Derozan right now is that I’ve watched both of them play and SGA is better in almost every facet of the game. Derozan can get hot from midrange and put up great games but he’s now inconsistent, doesn’t offer you anything really on defense, and doesn’t put pressure on a defense because he settles for jumpers almost exclusively.

SGA is a playmaker, pesky defender, plays with constant energy throughout a game and never lets you as a defense take a break. He’s quicker and can also hit shots from anywhere.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Recent bias? The fvck are you talking about...

My argument for SGA being better than Derozan right now is that I’ve watched both of them play and SGA is better in almost every facet of the game. Derozan can get hot from midrange and put up great games but he’s now inconsistent, doesn’t offer you anything really on defense, and doesn’t put pressure on a defense because he settles for jumpers almost exclusively.

SGA is a playmaker, pesky defender, plays with constant energy throughout a game and never lets you as a defense take a break.

Diar was yelling at him when he made that post.

[BigShotBob]

What does where I rank him have to do with your statement that you are judging him off of one game?.

I simply pointed out the idiotic nature of your comment. If you are going to judge or rank SGA...you need to take his entire career to this point into consideration. The biggest knock against him would be his health over the last 3 years.

I'd say that he's been a very good young player that took a noticeable leap this year and he might get first team all-nba...and I don't think anyone could argue a ton if he does. This year he had a somewhat decent team around him and I think he got them to perform very well as the clear cut best player.

We'll see what happens, but to use a 1 game sample to judge a 24 year old player that just took the leap is simply stupid...even worse, you used his most recent game to rank him, and then accused everyone else of "recency bias" is hilarious.

I'm not judging him off of one game, I'm saying look at how quickly the narrative can turn on someone just because they had a breakout regular season. Regardless, as far as I've seen, he's the poster child of a modern NBA guard. Skilled, quick, big, but has shown to be a bit of a FT merchant.

But you seem reluctant to rank him, which was my point to begin with. He's getting first team all-nba by default due to an injury hampered year. We all know it. But name me some guards who you think he's better than out of my list.


Bigshotbob apparently isn't aware that booker played only 53 games. Setting aside the fact that Shai was better, he played in 15 more games.

You wouldn't rank SGA over Booker overall though. That's why OP is alluding to "are we all waiting another year."


Recent bias? The fvck are you talking about...

My argument for SGA being better than Derozan right now is that I’ve watched both of them play and SGA is better in almost every facet of the game. Derozan can get hot from midrange and put up great games but he’s now inconsistent, doesn’t offer you anything really on defense, and doesn’t put pressure on a defense because he settles for jumpers almost exclusively.

SGA is a playmaker, pesky defender, plays with constant energy throughout a game and never lets you as a defense take a break. He’s quicker and can also hit shots from anywhere.

Are we only going off of this season? He's had a better season than Derozan but would you rank him over him if we include the past 2-3 seasons? The answer would most likely be no. By the way I think Derozan was more impressive last season than SGA was this season, though Derozan did take a step back this season he did have some very big games. Defensely they're both nothing special but yes SGA does have more of a motor.

At worst I think you could say they're the same tier.

[BigShotBob]

If you’re going to “recency bias” away how well anyones plays recently you might as well not talk about how good anyone is. All you’re concerned with is how good someone used to be. And nobody is what they used to be. You’re only what you are.

You're not understanding my point. This is SGA's breakout season. Are you weighing one season over what a player has done this season and the season before? What about the season before that too? The OP asks are we waiting to rank him, you didn't ask if he had a good season or not. Citing what someone did a year ago is still who "they are."

[DMAVS41]

Again...

I was simply responding to your idiotic post about a 1 game sample and then responded as you accused everyone of "recency bias" while heavily weighing his most recent game.

I don't care to rank SGA or predict his future...as I said before, I think he took a noticeable leap this year and even if everyone was healthy, likely would be 2nd or 3rd team all-nba and he would deserve it. That doesn't make him better overall as a player than certain guys, but we absolutely can talk about how good he was this year while leading his team to a far better record than you would expect.

[tontoz]

You wouldn't rank SGA over Booker overall though. That's why OP is alluding to "are we all waiting another year."


I would absolutely rank SGA above Booker right now. His raw stats and advanced stats are both better than any season of booker's career.

[ShawkFactory]

I'm not judging him off of one game, I'm saying look at how quickly the narrative can turn on someone just because they had a breakout regular season. Regardless, as far as I've seen, he's the poster child of a modern NBA guard. Skilled, quick, big, but has shown to be a bit of a FT merchant.

But you seem reluctant to rank him, which was my point to begin with. He's getting first team all-nba by default due to an injury hampered year. We all know it. But name me some guards who you think he's better than out of my list.



You wouldn't rank SGA over Booker overall though. That's why OP is alluding to "are we all waiting another year."



Are we only going off of this season? He's had a better season than Derozan but would you rank him over him if we include the past 2-3 seasons? The answer would most likely be no. By the way I think Derozan was more impressive last season than SGA was this season, though Derozan did take a step back this season he did have some very big games. Defensely they're both nothing special but yes SGA does have more of a motor.

At worst I think you could say they're the same tier.

Why would what happened last season or 2 seasons ago matter? Derozan clearly declined and SGA got significantly better.

He does everything well. Derozan doesn’t. Him having a great stretch the first half of last season doesn’t put him over a guy who took his game to another level this year.

He’s in the same tier as guys like Booker, Ja, and Mitchell. And I think this time next year we’ll be putting him up with the Tatums, Dame’s, or even Lukas. He’s really really good..

[ArbitraryWater]

I didn't include Lavine on purpose, and I do watch SGA. He's a bit of a FT merchant, but I'm not terribly against him, but this thread is about where he ranks.

Give me a solid argument for SGA over Derozan that isn't linked with recency bias, because while Demar was dropping a 40 point game against the Bucks last season in the playoffs, SGA wasn't doing anything. Now give me a solid argument for SGA over Booker, or SGA over Fox, or SGA over Brunson, who was beating the Jazz in the playoffs without Luka with Reggie Bullock and Dorian-Finey Smith.

I could go on. But let's pretend like we don't know the premise of this thread being nothing about gaudy stats in a stat inflated era begging to crown a young guard just because he averages over 30 and gets to the line a lot



Insanity. Just say you don't like Booker personally and keep it moving.



Where does SGA rank then for one recent breakout regular season. I'd love to hear your reasoning that isn't steeped in recency bias.



No one has made one single coherent argument yet for SGA over any of those guys I listed


It kind of should be you coming up with the argument, because the base stats point to SGA being better.

Thats the obvious argument.

Now you think/say there is more to it, and you‘re gonna have to show that.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2305110439450124.jpeg

[tontoz]

Bigshotbob taking Ls :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Bigshotbob taking Ls :oldlol:
His Kings prediction backfired, Jokic is on the verge of knocking off KD, and now this. Lot's of L's for BigShotBob :lol

[tontoz]

His Kings prediction backfired, Jokic is on the verge of knocking off KD, and now this. Lot's of L's for BigShotBob :lol


A few months ago he said Jokic would never make the conference finals. I have it bookmarked :roll:

[Axe]

If not within top 5, he's at least within the top 10 this year.

[Manny98]

1. Jokic
2. Luka
3.Embiid
4.Giannis
5. Shai

[tontoz]

Because his team isn't winning enough. We don't rank players on teams that can barely make it to .500


So who was the idiot that used this alt?

[Kblaze8855]

It was one of 3balls alts at one point. That or something incredibly close to it.

[highwhey]

It was one of 3balls alts at one point. That or something incredibly close to it.

why don;t you expose people's alts? it would be hilarious.

[tontoz]

It was one of 3balls alts at one point. That or something incredibly close to it.


That makes sense. So low IQ.

SGA didn't deserve to be rated 2 years ago and now he is the MVP front runner. :facepalm

[Wardell Curry]

why don;t you expose people's alts? it would be hilarious.

He can only speculate. He doesn't know. Only the admin knows.

[Neal Romer]

He can only speculate. He doesn't know. Only the admin knows.

I've speculated you are Shogon.

Can you confirm?

[ArbitraryWater]

It was one of 3balls alts at one point. That or something incredibly close to it.


No it wasnt. Cmon now

[BarberSchool]

Shai gonna win his first MVP, but due to a playoff whistle not being as soft, he won’t get his first chip this year. Gonna have to take that next step, to dominate on a championship level, no matter the whistle. Shai has the talent and intelligence to do it, no doubt.

[Full Court]

Shai gonna win his first MVP, but due to a playoff whistle not being as soft, he won’t get his first chip this year. Gonna have to take that next step, to dominate on a championship level, no matter the whistle. Shai has the talent and intelligence to do it, no doubt.

So who are you picking to win the championship?

[L.Kizzle]

All time or currently? All- Time, probably close to the 150 range. He's about to have his 3rd straight All-NBA 1st team selection and MVP.