A closer look at two narratives

[basketballcat]

Let's have a look at two popular narratives:
1. 90s was physical, not much fouls called
2. LeBron flops to get calls

Let's look at 98 & 2020 Finals, specifically FTA.

Jordan 70
Malone 38

LeBron 42
Butler 53

Oh dear me, facts don't fit the narratives. :lebronamazed:

Quick, eye test! For the love of God, eye test! :lol:oldlol:

Not only are the narratives on shaky ground, it appears Pippen's side kick got preferential treatment. LeBron is exactly the opposite, with Butler getting more foul calls. :violin:

[Axe]

Wassup TheGoatest. :pimp:

[ImKobe]

Low IQ Bran stan strikes again. Jordan had one of the highest usage rates in Finals history (only Bran in 2015 was higher) and averaged 33.5 out of the Bulls' 88 ppg in that series (38% of their total scoring vs 27% for Lebron in 2020), of course he got more FTs.

[basketballcat]

Low IQ Bran stan strikes again. Jordan had one of the highest usage rates in Finals history (only Bran in 2015 was higher) and averaged 33.5 out of the Bulls' 88 ppg in that series (38% of their total scoring vs 27% for Lebron in 2020), of course he got more FTs.

Oh dear. I sense panic in Eye Test Land :yaohappy:

Jordan's FTA is almost twice of Malone's. Did Jordan score twice as much as Malone? Nah. 25 vs 33.

Malone score 25.0 of the Jazz's 80.2 points. That's over 31% of the Jazz's points. Did Jordan score 60%+ of the Bulls points? :kobe: Nope.

In 2020, LeBron's usage was 29.0%, significantly higher than Butler's 25.4. And yet, Butler gets 26%+ more free throws. Uh, oh. It's dem pesky facts again. :lebronamazed:

Quick! For the love of God, save the precious narratives! :violin:

[Axe]

Wassup TheGoatest. :pimp:

[basketballcat]

Wassup TheGoatest. :pimp:

:banana::pimp::djparty

I'm actually a new guy here. TheGoatest seems cool, though. :rockon:

[ImKobe]

Oh dear. I sense panic in Eye Test Land :yaohappy:

Jordan's FTA is almost twice of Malone's. Did Jordan score twice as much as Malone? Nah. 25 vs 33.

Malone score 25.0 of the Jazz's 80.2 points. That's over 31% of the Jazz's points. Did Jordan score 60%+ of the Bulls points? :kobe: Nope.

In 2020, LeBron's usage was 29.0%, significantly higher than Butler's 25.4. And yet, Butler gets 26%+ more free throws. Uh, oh. It's dem pesky facts again. :lebronamazed:

Quick! For the love of God, save the precious narratives! :violin:

You haven't watched the series outside of Jordan's game-winner and you don't know that the Bulls were one of the least fouling teams in the league while the Jazz were the 3rd worst at it. Also, the Jazz weren't a great defensive team while the Bulls were one of the best in the game. Malone also had over twice as many TOs as Jordan and wasn't shooting nearly as much so of course MJ got way more FTs as the Jazz couldn't stop him without fouling. Keep parroting meaningless numbers thinking you have any idea how the sport is played though.

[basketballcat]

You haven't watched the series outside of Jordan's game-winner and you don't know that the Bulls were one of the least fouling teams in the league while the Jazz were the 3rd worst at it. Also, the Jazz weren't a great defensive team while the Bulls were one of the best in the game. Malone also had over twice as many TOs as Jordan and wasn't shooting nearly as much so of course MJ got way more FTs as the Jazz couldn't stop him without fouling. Keep parroting meaningless numbers thinking you have any idea how the sport is played though.

Wrong again, bucko. :hammerhead:

Bruh, in the regular season, the Jazz were the 2nd most fouled team in the NBA. :facepalm All of a sudden, the refs swallow their whistles for Pippen's side kick. :confusedshrug: Malone gets over 10 FTA a game. Over 6 games, we would have expected at least 60. He got less than 2/3 of that in favour of the manufactured superstar. All that jostling with Rodman with barely any calls. :kobe:

In fact, it's an established pattern. Pippen Lite averages 8.2 FTA in the regular season but it jumps to 9.9 in the playoffs. LeBron gets 8.9 FTA in the playoffs. That from a guy whose main offensive move is a strong drive to the basket. :lebronamazed:

[ImKobe]

Wrong again, bucko. :hammerhead:

Bruh, in the regular season, the Jazz were the 2nd most fouled team in the NBA. :facepalm All of a sudden, the refs swallow their whistles for Pippen's side kick. :confusedshrug: Malone gets over 10 FTA a game. Over 6 games, we would have expected at least 60. He got less than 2/3 of that in favour of the manufactured superstar. All that jostling with Rodman with barely any calls. :kobe:

In fact, it's an established pattern. Pippen Lite averages 8.2 FTA in the regular season but it jumps to 9.9 in the playoffs. LeBron gets 8.9 FTA in the playoffs. That from a guy whose main offensive move is a strong drive to the basket. :lebronamazed:

Again, you're just showing how stupid you are. Bulls had an elite defense and were one of the least fouling teams in the league. Malone struggled taking care of the ball which is why he was not as effective. This is what happens when you play against a real defense.

[basketballcat]

Again, you're just showing how stupid you are. Bulls had an elite defense and were one of the least fouling teams in the league. Malone struggled taking care of the ball which is why he was not as effective. This is what happens when you play against a real defense.

That was pure eye test. Love it. :yaohappy:

[ImKobe]

That was pure eye test. Love it. :yaohappy:

Pure eye test when Malone had 45 less shot attempts with over twice as many TOs as MJ, sure lol.

[basketballcat]

Pure eye test when Malone had 45 less shot attempts with over twice as many TOs as MJ, sure lol.

Oh dear, the deranged "I waTchEd thE GaME" eye tests continues. :milton

LeBron had 19 more attempts and yet Butler shot 11 more FTs. :facepalm

Quick, man! The narratives ... they are failing :lebronamazed::violin:

[Full Court]

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-but Jordan can't possibly be the GOAT because he shot more free throws than Malone!!! :cry::cry:"

:roll:

Try this on for size, GoatTits: You can't be the GOAT if you led a super team to the lottery.

:lebroncry:

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/lebron-flop-3_zpsk91twbwx.gif

[Gudo]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/lebron-flop-3_zpsk91twbwx.gif

OP does not like watching plays, he just likes the boxscores, so no GIFs please lol

[Xiao Yao You]

You haven't watched the series outside of Jordan's game-winner and you don't know that the Bulls were one of the least fouling teams in the league while the Jazz were the 3rd worst at it. Also, the Jazz weren't a great defensive team while the Bulls were one of the best in the game. Malone also had over twice as many TOs as Jordan and wasn't shooting nearly as much so of course MJ got way more FTs as the Jazz couldn't stop him without fouling. Keep parroting meaningless numbers thinking you have any idea how the sport is played though.

depends on how you look at it. Sloan encouraged fouls. They often led the league under him

[Da_Realist]

This dude is comparing two series played 20 years apart and never once mentions how LeBron's (non-called) stiff arm is responsible for half his career points. LeBron fans love to deep dive into His Majesty's career but won't go within 10 miles to see how LeBron has gotten his numbers. Willfully blind to his stat padding tactics against lesser teams and during garbage time. Or how he shuts things down on a bad night so he doesn't hurt his precious fg%, preferring to protect his numbers then push to try to win the game. LeBron gets the same numbers whether they win or lose. You can't tell by the stat sheet whether the team won or lost. Nope. All they see is 25-7-7 every night. Shut up. Calculator said LeBron is the greatest.

[Airupthere]

https://i0.wp.com/img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5741126c1600002a00f94193.gif

What about this play OP, bran still trying to get a foul? :roll:

[aj1987]

Low IQ Bran stan strikes again. Jordan had one of the highest usage rates in Finals history (only Bran in 2015 was higher) and averaged 33.5 out of the Bulls' 88 ppg in that series (38% of their total scoring vs 27% for Lebron in 2020), of course he got more FTs.

You're using usage rate to justify FT's? Are you on drugs?

Guess whose shot charts these are:

https://i.postimg.cc/63GCSznV/Screenshot-2023-03-28-at-6-41-57-PM.png

https://i.postimg.cc/sDCJFFnM/Screenshot-2023-03-28-at-6-42-07-PM.png

[warriorfan]

maybe because lebron offensive fouls over half the time where jordan would get legit fouled as it was impossible to stay in front of him

[ImKobe]

You're using usage rate to justify FT's? Are you on drugs?

Guess whose shot charts these are:


Both were high volume jump shooters but MJ's volume was that much greater, which is why I also mentioned the usage rate as it takes FTAs & turnovers into account as well.

[FKAri]

OP didn't even offer an argument...

[aj1987]

Both were high volume jump shooters but MJ's volume was that much greater, which is why I also mentioned the usage rate as it takes FTAs & turnovers into account as well.

Look at the shot chart, dummy. The vast majority of LeBron's points came within 5ft of the paint, while Jordan had 13 shots in the PAINT. LeBron probably had more in a single game. There's a reason why Magic was clowning on MJ and the refs.

[Full Court]

Look at the shot chart, dummy. The vast majority of LeBron's points came within 5ft of the paint, while Jordan had 13 shots in the PAINT. LeBron probably had more in a single game. There's a reason why Magic was clowning on MJ and the refs.

^Bitch fit.

:roll:

[kawhileonard2]

Let's have a look at two popular narratives:
1. 90s was physical, not much fouls called
2. LeBron flops to get calls

Let's look at 98 & 2020 Finals, specifically FTA.

Jordan 70
Malone 38

LeBron 42
Butler 53

Oh dear me, facts don't fit the narratives. :lebronamazed:

Quick, eye test! For the love of God, eye test! :lol:oldlol:

Not only are the narratives on shaky ground, it appears Pippen's side kick got preferential treatment. LeBron is exactly the opposite, with Butler getting more foul calls. :violin:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495130-Besides-Lebron-how-many-players-lost-to-an-unranked-player-with-HCA

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495050-Scottie-Pippen-is-right-LeBron-won-in-2016-without-any-stars/page2


https://news.yahoo.com/northwest-heat-wave-virtually-impossible-220003122.html


Vassilis "Billy" Spanoulis
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543


https://www3.forbes.com/business/an-expert-list-of-the-worlds-best-universities-vue/2/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/here-are-some-of-the-most-popular-pools-on-the-pool-sharing-app-swimply/ss-AAMcEfT?li=BBnb7Kz#image=4

https://www.sleepnumber.com/products/c2?Size=Queen&CAWELAID=120050930000024054&acid=shopping&ascid=MSN-_-bing-_-MSAN_Shopping_-_Product_Audiences-_-Product%20Viewers-_-81089061576268-_-be-_-pla-2332888796314169-_-mediacode-_-Shopping-_-MSAN&key=&s_kwcid=AL!6200!10!81089061576268!2332888796314169&k_clickid=bi_cmp-408324552_adg-1297424008129602_ad-81089061576268_pla-2332888796314169_dev-c_ext-_prd-Q1C2&msclkid=30b33d072150172480835df7cf1781ea


List of who beat Jordan, Lebron and Kobe in a tournament setting
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495710-List-of-who-beat-Jordan-Lebron-and-Kobe-in-a-tournament-setting


Giannis just destroyed LeBron’s entire career and legacy with a single quote
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496010-Giannis-just-destroyed-LeBron%92s-entire-career-and-legacy-with-a-single-quote


Lebron with Shaq - 2nd round exit, Giannis with Middleton a Title
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title


Giannis Finals is greater than Anything Lebron ever did.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495947-Giannis-Finals-is-greater-than-Anything-Lebron-ever-did


Giannis just blasted those who join super teams in post conference interview
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

Devin Booker Vs Lebron James - who is better currently?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently


Devin Booker put up 47 his playoff career high on Lebron .....
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401358780


Lebron won 2 bronze medals for the United States of America. How?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

Why did he embarrass the United States of America losing to inferior competition with another top 5 player all time on the squad and other guys who won league mvp in the NBA?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/years/2004/
https://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/games/2004-08-27-USA-ARG

http://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543



Lebron with Tim Duncan = Bronze Medal in Olympics, Vince with KG = Gold Medal
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal


Lebron with Carlos Boozer - No Playoffs, Deron Williams with Carlos Boozer - WCF.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF



Lebron stacking the deck in 2022 because he is afraid of Devin Booker
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

[aj1987]

^Bitch fit.

:roll:

Try talking ball on a basketball message board, you morbidly obese retard. :cheers:

[basketballcat]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495130-Besides-Lebron-how-many-players-lost-to-an-unranked-player-with-HCA

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495050-Scottie-Pippen-is-right-LeBron-won-in-2016-without-any-stars/page2


https://news.yahoo.com/northwest-heat-wave-virtually-impossible-220003122.html


Vassilis "Billy" Spanoulis
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543


https://www3.forbes.com/business/an-expert-list-of-the-worlds-best-universities-vue/2/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/here-are-some-of-the-most-popular-pools-on-the-pool-sharing-app-swimply/ss-AAMcEfT?li=BBnb7Kz#image=4

https://www.sleepnumber.com/products/c2?Size=Queen&CAWELAID=120050930000024054&acid=shopping&ascid=MSN-_-bing-_-MSAN_Shopping_-_Product_Audiences-_-Product%20Viewers-_-81089061576268-_-be-_-pla-2332888796314169-_-mediacode-_-Shopping-_-MSAN&key=&s_kwcid=AL!6200!10!81089061576268!2332888796314169&k_clickid=bi_cmp-408324552_adg-1297424008129602_ad-81089061576268_pla-2332888796314169_dev-c_ext-_prd-Q1C2&msclkid=30b33d072150172480835df7cf1781ea


List of who beat Jordan, Lebron and Kobe in a tournament setting
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495710-List-of-who-beat-Jordan-Lebron-and-Kobe-in-a-tournament-setting


Giannis just destroyed LeBron’s entire career and legacy with a single quote
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496010-Giannis-just-destroyed-LeBron%92s-entire-career-and-legacy-with-a-single-quote


Lebron with Shaq - 2nd round exit, Giannis with Middleton a Title
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title


Giannis Finals is greater than Anything Lebron ever did.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495947-Giannis-Finals-is-greater-than-Anything-Lebron-ever-did


Giannis just blasted those who join super teams in post conference interview
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

Devin Booker Vs Lebron James - who is better currently?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently


Devin Booker put up 47 his playoff career high on Lebron .....
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401358780


Lebron won 2 bronze medals for the United States of America. How?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

Why did he embarrass the United States of America losing to inferior competition with another top 5 player all time on the squad and other guys who won league mvp in the NBA?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/years/2004/
https://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/games/2004-08-27-USA-ARG

http://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543



Lebron with Tim Duncan = Bronze Medal in Olympics, Vince with KG = Gold Medal
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal


Lebron with Carlos Boozer - No Playoffs, Deron Williams with Carlos Boozer - WCF.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF



Lebron stacking the deck in 2022 because he is afraid of Devin Booker
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

Literally didn't read a word of that. :violin:

[guy]

Players adjust so that’s why there’s not really a correlation between FTAs and physicality/rule changes. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a more physical game back then and harder to play through both physically and mentally. There’s a reason why Giannis, Luka, Jokic all said the FIBA game is harder, which is more similar to the old NBA.

[ImKobe]

Look at the shot chart, dummy. The vast majority of LeBron's points came within 5ft of the paint, while Jordan had 13 shots in the PAINT. LeBron probably had more in a single game. There's a reason why Magic was clowning on MJ and the refs.

You got these from basketball-reference, right? The short charts are incomplete for Jordan. In game 6 it only shows 1 made shot in the paint for the whole game (a 12-footer at that) when he had 3 layups, in Game 4 you only see 5 of his makes when he made 12 shots in total and none of his made layups (he had 5) show up. These are not accurate at all. Jordan attacked the rim a lot, which is why he had a lot of FTs.

[aj1987]

You got these from basketball-reference, right? The short charts are incomplete for Jordan. In game 6 it only shows 1 made shot in the paint for the whole game (a 12-footer at that) when he had 3 layups, in Game 4 you only see 5 of his makes when he made 12 shots in total and none of his made layups (he had 5) show up. These are not accurate at all. Jordan attacked the rim a lot, which is why he had a lot of FTs.

Sure. LeBron took 55% of his shots within 10ft. Jordan was at 28%. Jordan took 16.8 shots outside 10ft and 8.4 within 9ft. LeBron took 9.9 shots within 9ft. Jordan was at 12 FTA/G and LeBron was at 7 FTA/G.