Lebron needs spacing & great scorers to match his PPG in Playoff (11', 16', 20', 23')

[3ba11]

So how could he win with a weak scorer that could never come close to his PPG and the biggest bricklayer/lane-clogger in playoff history like Pippen??

Passers like Magic/Lebron need great scorers to pass to, while also needing great spacing for their drive-heavy games, so they couldn't win with a weak scorer and bricklayer/lane-clogger like Pippen

Otoh, Jordan, won with weak scoring help, while also winning with less passing, rebounding and rim protection

Kyrie, wade, westbrook & rondo average more APG than pippen.. And Jordan had 3 guys average 7+ rebounds for him (Horace, Rodman, Pippen) compared to dozens for Lebron (Gooden, Zydrunas, Varejao, Jamison, Ben Wallace, Hickson, Shaq, Mosgov, Birdman, Haslem, Tristan, Love, Bosh, AD, McGee, and more), while Lebron also had many guys get 1+ blocks (Zydrunas, Wallace, Shaq, Mosgov, Bosh, AD, McGee, Birdman) compared to 2 guys for Jordan (Horace, Longley).

[Axe]

1-9

[Phoenix]

See ya next week OP.

[8Ball]

3ball had a meltdown last night :lol

This game hurt him bad.


Jordan never this good at 38.

[Axe]

Into the freaking toilet once again. :yaohappy:

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTKpYJ80OVQ&ab_channel=MobbDeepVEVO

Enjoy the ban fakkit :lol

[8Ball]

This specific forum is more fun actually when 3ball is around to laugh at.


That "I hate LeBron" thread from him was so delicious. I've been waiting for a 2nd one now.

[dankok8]

This specific forum is more fun actually when 3ball is around to laugh at.

That "I hate LeBron" thread from him was so delicious. I've been waiting for a 2nd one now.

You're just as fun to laugh at...

[8Ball]

You're just as fun to laugh at...

LeBron surpassing Jordan really eats at you guys.

[Full Court]

LeBron surpassing Jordan really eats at you guys.

Wrong. As usual.

Here, educate yourself. :lol

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?509969-Verdict-is-in-Jordan-STILL-consensus-GOAT

[SouBeachTalents]

Wrong. As usual.

Here, educate yourself. :lol

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?509969-Verdict-is-in-Jordan-STILL-consensus-GOAT
Looks like you're even more wrong than he is. LeBron top 2 like he is virtually everywhere.

[MrFonzworth]

You're just as fun to laugh at...

:lol

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron couldnt make play in with Westbrook. Kawhi did.

[3ba11]

.
CAREER FINALS

Jordan..... 34 ppg... 6.0 apg... 2.8 TO's.. 48%
Pippen..... 19 ppg... 5.9 apg... 3.3 TO's.. 42%

Ball-dominators like Lebron or Magic are too ball-dominant at carry-job volume to beat top teams, so they need all-time scoring help and can't win with secondary producers like Wiggins or Pippen.. By definition of being passers, they need all-time scorers to pass to.. For example, Lebron lost with 18 on 38% from Mo in the 2009 ECF and never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs vs top teams in 2 decades) - aka he needs better scoring help than Mo, while Jordan won with those stats from Pippen all the time.. Pippen averaged 17.6 on 41% for the entire 2nd three-peat playoffs (96-98' Playoffs), including 2 Finals of 15.7 on 40% and 16 on 42% in the 97 and 98' ECF..

Unlike ball-dominators like Luka/Lebron that impose spot-up roles, expert jumpshooters like MJ, Curry or Kobe can score 40 while the ball moves and teammates assist them, so their skillset has sufficient teammate development, fits and strategic capacity/coaching to win organically and with less scoring help - this contrasts with Lebron's skillset of abnormal ball-dominance for his size/posiiton, which imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (more scorng help).

FYI

The 2009 Cavs had #3 defense versus #19 for 1990 Bulls, while 09' Mo > 90' Pippen across the board offensively:

09' MO........... 17.2 PER... 2.3 BPM... 3.1 VORP.... 0.165 WS/48.,.. #3 team defense
90' PIPPEN.... 16.3 PER... 1.8 BPM... 3.0 VORP.... 0.087 WS/48.. #19 team defense

^^^ So the stats confirm that the 06-10' Cavs had more help on both sides of ball than the 1990 Bulls - this includes top 5 defenses vs #19 for the Bulls and far more offensive help (Pippen had lower PPG, efficiency, PER and WS than all-stars Mo/Big Z or the Hughes/Jamison acquisitions).. This matters because it shows that Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles by winning the following year, while Lebron lost as the favorite for 2 more years.. Lebron's 3 straight losses as the favorite from 09-11' made oddsmakers scared in 2012, so they made Lebron's veteran super-team the underdog to baby Westbrick in the Finals.

The reality is that rookie Jordan was forced to carry 8 seeds in the playoffs, while Lebron avoided bad playoff teams, low seeds, or the 8 vs 1 matchup by waiting 3 years to have a veteran high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs.. The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a HOF coach and a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs, yet they were only winning 45 games until Lebron's stiff arm got all-star spacing in 2009 - that's hardly an all-time level of carrying.. And Kyrie played 12 of 14 games in the 15' East Playoffs, while Love was the best 2nd option in the 18' East, so the only time that Lebron took a 1-star team to the Finals was when everyone was doing it (Iverson, Kidd, Dwight).

Ultimately, Lebron ran away from fossils that were 32-34 years old in 2010 (KG/Pierce/Allen), while Jordan stayed and persevered against a prime dynasty that was 27-29 in 1991 (Isiah/Dumars/Rodman).. People forget that Lebron failed to win the East with homecourt in 09' and 10', so he took the top 3 first options in the conference and put them on 1 team (the "decision") - this league dilution and consolidation of power on 1 team actually locked down the league with 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite status for 6 straight years (11-16').. i.e. Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond.

[3ba11]

.
Honest question before I get banned:

Since passers like Lebron/Magic need dominant scorers to pass to and great spacing for their drive-heavy game, how could they win with a lesser-scorer and the biggest bricklayer/lane-clogger in playoff history, aka Pippen????? (worst-ever playoff efficiency stats here (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg))

[Phoenix]

Let's all have the discipline to not answer the above question and just wait for the pending ( 2 day) ban.

[coastalmarker99]

.
Honest question before I get banned:

Since passers like Lebron/Magic need dominant scorers to pass to and great spacing for their drive-heavy game, how could they win with a lesser-scorer and the biggest bricklayer/lane-clogger in playoff history, aka Pippen????? (worst-ever playoff efficiency stats here (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg))

Here is a fun fact

Worthy hurt his ankle in gm 5 of the WCF vs Portland.

He continued to play but was ineffective with 12 points and 8 points.

He averaged 21.4 PPG for the year, the Lakers' leading scorer.

Regular season GameScore was 15.6.

Games 5 & 6 in the WCF, 4.2.

As we headed into the 1991 Finals his ankle was a major topic.

Rest between the finals games was a key factor mentioned in the series.

Game 1: after 3 days rest

Gm 2: after 3 days rest

Gm 3 and 4: after 2 days rest

Games 1 & 2 should’ve been his best games.

They were.

The Lakers won in game 1 when MJ missed a last second shot

Worthy looked ok and played 45 min while scoring 22 on 24 shots.

He only had 3 rebounds and one assist below his 5/3 season avg.

The Lakers saw trouble when he tweaked the ankle again in the 4th.

He got rest and work on the ankle between games and walked through practices.

The Bulls won game 2 by 21, with Pippen guarding Magic.

Worthy looked good and felt better with 40 min, 24 pts on 17 shots, 5 rebounds.

3 days of rest worked but it was now a thing of the past.


Game 3 is where things turn right at halftime.

Through the first half, Worthy scored 15, and the Lakers were down by 1.

To this point, the series was dead even 1-1, with 1 point separating them at halftime and Worthy averaging the equivalent of 24 PPG with the Lakers taking home court.


The game went to OT with the Bulls winning.

In the 2nd half, Worthy started limping as he scored 4 points in H2 and OT combined.

He also got one rebound in the game Worthy wasn’t an elite rebounder, but the Lakers got killed on the boards, 46-29 and they set a record for fewest rebounds.


At this point, Worthy was toast.

Worthy himself was saying he couldn’t cut, and that all he could do was try to get in the way when it came to rebounds.

As noted, he was visibly limping, and even Dunleavy pointed out he was “dragging.”


So Game 3 was impacted by Worthy’s injury.

In Game 4, Worthy played 31 minutes, scoring 12 points on 16 shots and he took himself out, saying he couldn’t contribute.

He didn’t play game 5.

Before game 5, Magic summarized the situation as even he said Worthy “can’t defend.”

Even then with all of LA's injuries in the 1991 finals it was a 1 pt game in game 1, an OT game in game 3, and the Lakers were up 3 in game 5 with 5 minutes to play, without either Worthy or Scott.

[Phoenix]

:facepalm

And here we go....

[coastalmarker99]

.
Honest question before I get banned:

Since passers like Lebron/Magic need dominant scorers to pass to and great spacing for their drive-heavy game, how could they win with a lesser-scorer and the biggest bricklayer/lane-clogger in playoff history, aka Pippen????? (worst-ever playoff efficiency stats here (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg))

If Magic was playing a peak Jordan closely with an injured team in the finals what do you think he would have done with a great second option in Pippen who averaged 20.8 points, 9.4 rebounds and 6.6 assists plus 2.4 steals in that series.


Remember 3ball it was a 1 pt game in game 1, an OT game in game 3, and the Lakers were up 3 in game 5 with 5 minutes to play, without either Worthy or Scott.

[3ba11]

Here is a fun fact

Worthy hurt his ankle in gm 5 of the WCF vs Portland.

He continued to play but was ineffective with 12 points and 8 points.

He averaged 21.4 PPG for the year, the Lakers' leading scorer.

Regular season GameScore was 15.6.

Games 5 & 6 in the WCF, 4.2.

As we headed into the 1991 Finals his ankle was a major topic.

Rest between the finals games was a key factor mentioned in the series.

Game 1: after 3 days rest

Gm 2: after 3 days rest

Gm 3 and 4: after 2 days rest

Games 1 & 2 should’ve been his best games.

They were.

The Lakers won in game 1 when MJ missed a last second shot

Worthy looked ok and played 45 min while scoring 22 on 24 shots.

He only had 3 rebounds and one assist below his 5/3 season avg.

The Lakers saw trouble when he tweaked the ankle again in the 4th.

He got rest and work on the ankle between games and walked through practices.

The Bulls won game 2 by 21, with Pippen guarding Magic.

Worthy looked good and felt better with 40 min, 24 pts on 17 shots, 5 rebounds.

3 days of rest worked but it was now a thing of the past.


Game 3 is where things turn right at halftime.

Through the first half, Worthy scored 15, and the Lakers were down by 1.

To this point, the series was dead even 1-1, with 1 point separating them at halftime and Worthy averaging the equivalent of 24 PPG with the Lakers taking home court.


The game went to OT with the Bulls winning.

In the 2nd half, Worthy started limping as he scored 4 points in H2 and OT combined.

He also got one rebound in the game Worthy wasn’t an elite rebounder, but the Lakers got killed on the boards, 46-29 and they set a record for fewest rebounds.


At this point, Worthy was toast.

Worthy himself was saying he couldn’t cut, and that all he could do was try to get in the way when it came to rebounds.

As noted, he was visibly limping, and even Dunleavy pointed out he was “dragging.”


So Game 3 was impacted by Worthy’s injury.

In Game 4, Worthy played 31 minutes, scoring 12 points on 16 shots and he took himself out, saying he couldn’t contribute.

He didn’t play game 5.

Before game 5, Magic summarized the situation as even he said Worthy “can’t defend.”

Even then with all of LA's injuries in the 1991 finals it was a 1 pt game in game 1, an OT game in game 3, and the Lakers were up 3 in game 5 with 5 minutes to play, without either Worthy or Scott.


The Lakers lost with hobbled Worthy getting 19 ppg, while the 09' Magic won without their all-star point guard playing a single minute (Nelson).

The Magic had the injury excuse but still won because Lebron is too ball-dominant at carry-job volume to beat top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick) - passers like Lebron & Magic need all-time scoring help that can match their scoring for entire playoff runs, so they can't win with secondary producers like Wiggins, Pippen, Mo or a hobbled Worthy.

Btw. the only reason that Game 3 went to OT is because Pippen choked on the final possession by fouling out on the lucky Divac play - Jordan was forced to hit the famous game-tying shot and then carry the Bulls on both ends in OT (locking up Magic).. All of this while Pippen cheerlead from the bench after fouling out in regulation... This was a near-massive choke that would've ruined his only viable playoff run .. Every other run was compromised by massive chokes and bed-wetting like the X-Man debacle in 92' or the Dominique debacle in 93', or true shooting disaster and many chokes in the 93' Finals, or 96-98' Finals or ECF, or 88-90' Playoffs, or 99-03' Playoffs...

Again, the dumb Vlade foul nearly ruined Pippen's only viable, migraine-free run

[Axe]

.
Honest question before I get banned
:oldlol:

He definitely knows that his fate has been sealed. :lebronamazed:

[Phoenix]

3ball is now banned.

[imdaman99]

I don't agree with banning 3ball. He is repetitive and diligent as hell. I might take away his thread making abilities because every thread results in the same old rhetoric conversation. Just merge all his threads into 1 thread and let him post in there. But of course who knows if mods even have the power to prevent him from making new threads.

[Phoenix]

I don't agree with banning 3ball. He is repetitive and diligent as hell. I might take away his thread making abilities because every thread results in the same old rhetoric conversation. Just merge all his threads into 1 thread and let him post in there. But of course who knows if mods even have the power to prevent him from making new threads.

The amount of threads and pages he generates off the same tired dialogue is precisely why the site owners won't do that. Think about the number of permanent bans we have on this site, and then wonder why the 3ball account has persisted, and gets banned every week to resurface doing the same schtick over and over. Blaze and RMWG may 'ban' him for a few days for whatever shits and giggles, but it's very obvious that Jeff/Steve or whoever wants what 3ball does: generating clicks and activity. regardless of the quality of the dialogue. The point when this forum was actually decent for real basketball discussion was like 10 years ago.