Did the Warriors simply take advantage of a weak path last year?

[ArbitraryWater]

Grizzlies were the toughest opponent in the West, they're a solid team but not a title contender.

The Celtics then forgot how to play offense in the finals and Tatum completely wet the bed, and it wasnt like they blew them out.

It was one of the weaker winning runs I can remember tbh.


Shame for the Bucks (Middleton injury) cause they would have been apt winners.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yeah its not a real title. Absurdly weak. Was saying at the time how weak the run was. Everybody mostly agreed and nobody really talks about the title unless the agenda calls for it.

But they're still a really stacked team. Currys value otoh which was artificially bumped last year has now popped in a massive way.

[tontoz]

Yeah the Cs were a legit team, until they played the Ws. Cool story bro. The Cs were up 2-1, both wins by double digits, until Curry merked them to even the series at 2-2.

Curry is +14 so far against the Kings. The team is getting crushed when he is on the bench.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yeah the Cs were a legit team, until they played the Ws. Cool story bro. The Cs were up 2-1, both wins by double digits, until Curry merked them to even the series at 2-2.

Curry is +14 so far against the Kings. The team is getting crushed when he is on the bench.

This dude takes this shit personally. Obsessed with curry like a 12 year old Asian kid. Embarrassing persona. Kill yourself dweeb.

[tontoz]

This dude takes this shit personally. Obsessed with curry like a 12 year old Asian kid. Embarrassing persona. Kill yourself dweeb.

Who was the one with the first response to the thread? :oldlol:

You have proven to be obsessed with Curry. All i did was actually post facts which you obviously can't handle so you start in with the insults. Typical response from a low IQ troll.

[warriorfan]

Who was the one with the first response to the thread? :oldlol:

You have proven to be obsessed with Curry. All i did was actually post facts which you obviously can't handle so you start in with the insults. Typical response from a low IQ troll.

:roll:

that cuck is fuming

[dankok8]

The last three title runs are all very weak historically. Injuries are completely decimating the NBA.

[ArbitraryWater]

The last three title runs are all very weak historically. Injuries are completely decimating the NBA.

wait a minute, the last 3?

I feel like the Lakers 2020 tite is among one of the best runs ever.

1R: Lillard, McCollum
2R: Harden, Westbrook
WCF: Jokic, Murray, Porter
Finals: Butler, Adebayo, Herro


Gotta be up there.

[AlternativeAcc.]

The last three title runs are all very weak historically. Injuries are completely decimating the NBA.

Good point except 2020 was legit. Not many injuries.

Baseball and football don't have this same problem. Football because as long as the QB is healthy it's fair play.

Basketball just lends itself to injuries for the best players. The 82 game regular season is a flawed design but... money is most important

[tontoz]

So let's put asterisks on the last two titles, but the bubble ring is legit?

:roll:

[dankok8]

wait a minute, the last 3?

I feel like the Lakers 2020 tite is among one of the best runs ever.

1R: Lillard, McCollum
2R: Harden, Westbrook
WCF: Jokic, Murray, Porter
Finals: Butler, Adebayo, Herro

Gotta be up there.

You can't be serious. It was a super weak run. Lillard was hurt and so were Adebayo/Dragic in the final. In fact Miami with their injuries was arguably a lottery team. The best team they faced was the Nuggets who had a +2.35 SRS and played at a 52-win pace. Rockets had a +3.13 SRS and a 50-win pace. Not a single opponent top 10 in defense.

[Baller789]

Good point except 2020 was legit. Not many injuries.


Baseball and football don't have this same problem. Football because as long as the QB is healthy it's fair play.

Basketball just lends itself to injuries for the best players. The 82 game regular season is a flawed design but... money is most important

:roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

You can't be serious. It was a super weak run. Lillard was hurt and so were Adebayo/Dragic in the final. In fact Miami with their injuries was arguably a lottery team. The best team they faced was the Nuggets who had a +2.35 SRS and played at a 52-win pace. Rockets had a +3.13 SRS and a 50-win pace. Not a single opponent top 10 in defense.

how is that weak?

Can you find a run where a team faced more all-stars who were in their prime?

lillard wasnt hurt, stop it. he was at the peak of his powers. Bam missed 2 games, 1 of which they won. That thing had no impact. You always lie to prove your points. Dragic was indeed out.

[dankok8]

If I had to make a list of five weakest title runs post-merger:

1978 Bullets
1979 Sonics
2020 Lakers
2021 Bucks
2022 Warriors

[ArbitraryWater]

So let's put asterisks on the last two titles, but the bubble ring is legit?

:roll:

no one is putting asterisks on anything, what are you talking about?

[ArbitraryWater]

If I had to make a list of five weakest title runs post-merger:

1978 Bullets
1979 Sonics
2020 Lakers
2021 Bucks
2022 Warriors

I can agree with the last 2, but youre definitely being defensive about 2020 right now.

[AlternativeAcc.]

:roll:

Who was hurt? All the stars played the majority of the games.

Why do you guys lie?

[Keno]

Yup, lucked out on a lot of injured opponents and got a free ride, also went against a lot of pretenders that had no business going that deep to begin with.

[SouBeachTalents]

If I had to make a list of five weakest title runs post-merger:

1978 Bullets
1979 Sonics
2020 Lakers
2021 Bucks
2022 Warriors
2015 Warriors would be up there, they frankly lucked out getting to avoid the other elite teams in the conference that year like the Thunder, Spurs & Clippers. That's not even getting into the Finals :lol

2007 Spurs too, they beat Phoenix under very controversial conditions, then they had as big of a cakewalk over the final 2 rounds as any team I can remember.

[ShawkFactory]

Good point except 2020 was legit. Not many injuries.

Baseball and football don't have this same problem. Football because as long as the QB is healthy it's fair play.

Basketball just lends itself to injuries for the best players. The 82 game regular season is a flawed design but... money is most important

It's not just the main players being hurt. That happens in football and baseball too. Any heavy contributor to the team hurts.

Outside of QB, baseball and football have more margin for error when it comes to that. The Braves lost arguably their best player in 2021 and still won the WS.

[ArbitraryWater]

2015 Warriors would be up there, they frankly lucked out getting to avoid the other elite teams in the conference that year like the Thunder, Spurs & Clippers. That's not even getting into the Finals :lol

2007 Spurs too, they beat Phoenix under very controversial conditions, then they had as big of a cakewalk over the final 2 rounds as any team I can remember.

Anyone not defensive about 2020 and that chip would definitely by a MIlE include 2007 and 2015 over it.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's not just the main players being hurt. That happens in football and baseball too. Any heavy contributor to the team hurts.

Outside of QB, baseball and football have more margin for error when it comes to that. The Braves lost arguably their best player in 2021 and still won the WS.
Great point

Hell the best 2 players in baseball csnt even make the playoffs together.

The two best players in basketball is almost a guarenteed ship.

Basketball is way too reliant on 1 or 2 players

[dankok8]

how is that weak?

Can you find a run where a team faced more all-stars who were in their prime?

lillard wasnt hurt, stop it. he was at the peak of his powers. Bam missed 2 games, 1 of which they won. That thing had no impact. You always lie to prove your points. Dragic was indeed out.

Bam also played hurt when he came back. Miami was a +2.59 SRS team and played at a 49-win pace which makes them one of the weakest finals teams ever even when healthy. With Bam out half the time and hurt half the time and Dragic out, that's probably a .500 team or worse.

Lillard was awful because of injury especially in Game 4 and he was out in Game 5.

All in all 2020 Lakers didn't face a single team that played above 52-win pace, above 3.13 SRS or had a top 10 defense. Oh and so many top players like Curry, KD, and Giannis also missed much of the season or got injured in the playoffs. It's one of the weakest years on record but of course delusional stans will pretend otherwise.

Of course in 2021 it happened again this time with AD, Kawhi, Harden, Kyrie, Trae all getting hurt in the playoffs.

In 2022 it was less about playoff injuries but again the playoffs didn't feature Lebron, AD, Kawhi... Still I'd probably rank the 2022 Warriors run a bit higher than 2020 Lakers and 2021 Bucks which are even worse. At least the Warriors faced a healthy +7 SRS Boston team in the finals. The Celtics in the 2nd half of the season were really really good and played championship basketball by any historical standard and the Warriors overcame them.

[dankok8]

2015 Warriors would be up there, they frankly lucked out getting to avoid the other elite teams in the conference that year like the Thunder, Spurs & Clippers. That's not even getting into the Finals :lol

2007 Spurs too, they beat Phoenix under very controversial conditions, then they had as big of a cakewalk over the final 2 rounds as any team I can remember.

2007 Spurs ya... facing Utah and Cleveland in the last two rounds is weak sauce.

2015 Warriors also a weak run but I still rate it better than my top 5 plus 2007 Spurs. I'm considering 2007 Spurs making the top 5 over 2022 Warriors. I guess I find the 2022 Celtics to be a pretty darn good team.

[ShawkFactory]

Great point

Hell the best 2 players in baseball csnt even make the playoffs together.

The two best players in basketball is almost a guarenteed ship.

Basketball is way too reliant on 1 or 2 players

And it goes beyond that. Memphis is really missing Steven Adams right about now with how AD and the Lakers are dominating inside. The Bucks really missed Middleton's shooting last year.

Every year there are a slew of injuries to guys who aren't stars but that still change the results of series. That's why to me it's generally not worth talking about.

If Giannis doesn't come back? Yea different story.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bam also played hurt when he came back. Miami was a +2.59 SRS team and played at a 49-win pace which makes them one of the weakest finals teams ever even when healthy. With Bam out half the time and hurt half the time and Dragic out, that's probably a .500 team or worse.

Lillard was awful because of injury especially in Game 4 and he was out in Game 5.

All in all 2020 Lakers didn't face a single team that played above 52-win pace, above 3.13 SRS or had a top 10 defense. Oh and so many top players like Curry, KD, and Giannis also missed much of the season or got injured in the playoffs. It's one of the weakest years on record but of course delusional stans will pretend otherwise.

Of course in 2021 it happened again this time with AD, Kawhi, Harden, Kyrie, Trae all getting hurt in the playoffs.

In 2022 it was less about playoff injuries but again the playoffs didn't feature Lebron, AD, Kawhi... Still I'd probably rank the 2022 Warriors run a bit higher than 2020 Lakers and 2021 Bucks which are even worse. At least the Warriors faced a healthy +7 SRS Boston team in the finals. The Celtics in the 2nd half of the season were really really good and played championship basketball by any historical standard and the Warriors overcame them.



Bam didnt pay hurt. He was more than fine. He wasnt rushed back or anything.

iard quit on game 5. Its not unusua. Payers do it when they have a nigge and the series is over. Thomas did the same in 2017.

Heat weren't actually the 5 seed in the RS though. They were the 4th seed.

They took games off in the bubble because being 4th or 5th seed has no meaning with no HCA and the match-up locked up.

So that besides having a different schedule unlike to a normal RS schedule, which got even better as the re-start basically made it a new season and leapfrogged the improvements of younger talents such as Herro.


Again, your advanced metrics matter, but having less 50 win teams in a year means you have more 40 win teams..

it doesnt mean competition was worse. it may just mean there are more good teams, taking away wins from each other. comparing a 10th seed today or in 2020 with one from 1990 or 2000 is a complete mismatch.

increased depth / talent.

so more accurately, watch for the amount of all stars the lakers went through.


but we know your agenda.

[dazzer87]

wait a minute, the last 3?

I feel like the Lakers 2020 tite is among one of the best runs ever.

1R: Lillard, McCollum
2R: Harden, Westbrook
WCF: Jokic, Murray, Porter
Finals: Butler, Adebayo, Herro


Gotta be up there.

Imagine the bubble ring being the toughest ring to win….Retard

[dankok8]

Bam didnt pay hurt. He was more than fine. He wasnt rushed back or anything.

iard quit on game 5. Its not unusua. Payers do it when they have a nigge and the series is over. Thomas did the same in 2017.

Heat weren't actually the 5 seed in the RS though. They were the 4th seed.

They took games off in the bubble because being 4th or 5th seed has no meaning with no HCA and the match-up locked up.

So that besides having a different schedule unlike to a normal RS schedule, which got even better as the re-start basically made it a new season and leapfrogged the improvements of younger talents such as Herro.


Again, your advanced metrics matter, but having less 50 win teams in a year means you have more 40 win teams..

it doesnt mean competition was worse. it may just mean there are more good teams, taking away wins from each other. comparing a 10th seed today or in 2020 with one from 1990 or 2000 is a complete mismatch.

increased depth / talent.

so more accurately, watch for the amount of all stars the lakers went through.

but we know your agenda.

But anyways I'm not claiming that recent NBA champs faced weak talent. I'm saying they faced weak opposing teams. The latter is hard to dispute. Use opponent SRS which is a better predictor than win totals... You yourself said advanced metric matter. So why ignore them? You're the one with an agenda, not me. You can't refute the fact that the 2020 Lakers' opponents were all weak teams according to the metrics.

[tpols]

Nuggets and Grizzlies who would end up as the 1 and 2 seed this year with the same teams, Lukas Mavs who destroyed the loaded suns, and a super stacked and healthy Celtics team isn't a weak path.

An opposing player having a down series doesn't invalidate a ring. Does Lebrons 2016 ring not count because curry and klay shit the bed in the Finals? Does Dirks 2011 ring not coun t because lebron shit the bed in the Finals? Of course you would never admit that, but apply hypocritical rationale towards steph curry because you don't like him. The man lit up the #1 defense when his team was on the ropes. 100% respectable ring.

[ArbitraryWater]

But anyways I'm not claiming that recent NBA champs faced weak talent. I'm saying they faced weak opposing teams. The latter is hard to dispute. Use opponent SRS which is a better predictor than win totals... You yourself said advanced metric matter. So why ignore them? You're the one with an agenda, not me. You can't refute the fact that the 2020 Lakers' opponents were all weak teams according to the metrics.


Im not ignoring them.

I said you cant take them at face vavue. If a eague is stronger as a whoe, obviousy SRS and win rates wi be ower for a teams compared to other years. So you need to be carefu with historica evauations/comparisons based off of them, which is exacty what you are doing.

The a star taent is however undeniabe. Which is why youre not comparing it to other runs based on that regard.

I can refute that fact very easiy. Here it goes: iard + McCoum, Nurkic. Harden + Westbrook. Jokic + Murray, Porter. Buter + Adebayo/Herro.

You know who these peope are. MVPs, muti time MVPs, one of the best payoff performers ever, DPOTY..


to say the 2015 Harden/Howard Rockets or those Bazers which were the WCSF opponent not the R1 one and the Irving/ove ess Cavs are comparabe to that run, is pretty far fetched.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nuggets and Grizzlies who would end up as the 1 and 2 seed this year with the same teams, Lukas Mavs who destroyed the loaded suns, and a super stacked and healthy Celtics team isn't a weak path.

An opposing player having a down series doesn't invalidate a ring. Does Lebrons 2016 ring not count because curry and klay shit the bed in the Finals? Does Dirks 2011 ring not coun t because lebron shit the bed in the Finals? Of course you would never admit that, but apply hypocritical rationale towards steph curry because you don't like him. The man lit up the #1 defense when his team was on the ropes. 100% respectable ring.


The Mavs are a hot/cold team relying on shots going in next to luka. They would have been a complete outlier title winner. And come WCF time, you should be facing title contenders.

Its just a fact that the Mavs did not have the buid or roster of any championship team ever.

Nuggets were injured thats not a serious take.

Grizzies are a nice team, but theyve never done anything of note in the postseason and are ceary not a tite contender either.

[tpols]

The Mavs are a hot/cold team relying on shots going in next to luka. They would have been a complete outlier title winner. And come WCF time, you should be facing title contenders.

Its just a fact that the Mavs did not have the buid or roster of any championship team ever.

Nuggets were injured thats not a serious take.

Grizzies are a nice team, but theyve never done anything of note in the postseason and are ceary not a tite contender either.

Yea... and you didn't mention the Celtics who are a top contender this year and last year. Your excuse for that is Tatum not playing well but if we apply that logic to your favorite players their best achievements would be canceled lol.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yea... and you didn't mention the Celtics who are a top contender this year and last year. Your excuse for that is Tatum not playing well but if we apply that logic to your favorite players their best achievements would be canceled lol.

The Celtics were/are an elite team, but considering they were the only elite team faced, it wasnt really convincing considering it seemed like the entire team forgot how to play offense. Tatum shit the bed but the whole offense looked out of sync, they were crumbling big time. It was not finals worthy.

[Charlie Sheen]

The Mavs are a hot/cold team relying on shots going in next to luka. They would have been a complete outlier title winner. And come WCF time, you should be facing title contenders.

Its just a fact that the Mavs did not have the buid or roster of any championship team ever.

Nuggets were injured thats not a serious take.

Grizzies are a nice team, but theyve never done anything of note in the postseason and are ceary not a tite contender either.

I don't think the Mavs were weak for a WCF opponent. They had guys like brunson, dinwiddie and bullock playing out of their minds. There is no championship team like them because of the unlikelihood those players keep up that level for 4 rounds. There are examples of teams like this in conference finals history though. A few players can get hot and it will transform a team from taken lightly into a threat

[tpols]

The Celtics were/are an elite team, but considering they were the only elite team faced, it wasnt really convincing considering it seemed like the entire team forgot how to play offense. Tatum shit the bed but the whole offense looked out of sync, they were crumbling big time. It was not finals worthy.

Again... apply that logic to your favorite players. LeBron used to face teams like the derozan raptors in the conference finals. A guy who in a stronger east now can't even make the playoffs. By your own logic that would invalidate all of your favorite players rings.

[ArbitraryWater]

Again... apply that logic to your favorite players. LeBron used to face teams like the derozan raptors in the conference finals. A guy who in a stronger east now can't even make the playoffs. By your own logic that would invalidate all of your favorite players rings.

why? if anything, time since has improved derozans and lowrys value. the raptors were one trade away from becoming champs and lebron usually played them in the 2nd round.

to add, the only time he beat them and won the chip was 2016.... 73-win warriors, you know.


not a whole lot of invalidating going on there.

[warriorfan]

bro bron’s bubble chip was the worst…3.0 SRS rating teams with injuries

thread backfire. you played yourself

[tontoz]

why? if anything, time since has improved derozans and lowrys value. the raptors were one trade away from becoming champs and lebron usually played them in the 2nd round.

to add, the only time he beat them and won the chip was 2016.... 73-win warriors, you know.


not a whole lot of invalidating going on there.


The Wizards swept the Derozan Raps in the playoffs one year. :oldlol:

[tpols]

why? if anything, time since has improved derozans and lowrys value. the raptors were one trade away from becoming champs and lebron usually played them in the 2nd round.

to add, the only time he beat them and won the chip was 2016.... 73-win warriors, you know.


not a whole lot of invalidating going on there.

You really can't even admit those east paths were just as if not more weak? Now derozans 1 seed raptors were top comp in hindsight?

:roll:

You're too much. The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

You said the Celtics were elite but Tatums down performance invalidates them. Curry and Klay shit the bed just as badly in the 2016 Finals so how would that not invalidate the warriors in the same manner that you discredit the Celtics for?

[ArbitraryWater]

You really can't even admit those east paths were just as if not more weak? Now derozans 1 seed raptors were top comp in hindsight?

:roll:

You're too much. The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

You said the Celtics were elite but Tatums down performance invalidates them. Curry and Klay shit the bed just as badly in the 2016 Finals so how would that not invalidate the warriors in the same manner that you discredit the Celtics for?

I know those east paths were weak, youre shifting goalposts now.

you said it would invalidate lebrons rings.

which one? its definitely not 2016 and the others make no sense.

celtics as a whole seemed to lost their head in the finals.

the warriors at least went up 3-1 and game 7 would always be close due to the nature of that game. so cavs had to play some ball and get 2 straight road wins to win it.

if you consider the celtics to have been elite, fine. but overall thats still a pretty weak run.

the team isnt that different this year. and look at them getting punked by the kings.

[tontoz]

the team isnt that different this year. and look at them getting punked by the kings.


This year's Ws won 9 fewer games than last year's team and was epically bad on the road in spite of Klay being much more effective this season.

[Hey Yo]

If I had to make a list of five weakest title runs post-merger:

1978 Bullets
1979 Sonics
2020 Lakers
2021 Bucks
2022 Warriors

1987 Lakers path to the Finals were 3 teams with a combined record of 118-127.

[ArbitraryWater]

This year's Ws won 9 fewer games than last year's team and was epically bad on the road in spite of Klay being much more effective this season.

that coud easily be down to teams being better though. take the lakers alone who handed GSW 3 or 4 losses this season.

[tontoz]

that coud easily be down to teams being better though. take the lakers alone who handed GSW 3 or 4 losses this season.

:facepalm

Last year the West had 4 teams that won at least 52 games. This season there was only 1. Denver has the top seed with a point differential of only 3.3. Last season there were 4 teams in the West that had point differentials much better than that. Dallas had a 3.3 differential as the 4 seed last season.

[StrongLurk]

The last two rings by the Warriors/Bucks have been relatively weak. Bucks ring was probably the weakest because literally all of their opponents had injuries to their best players.

This year could potentially be even weaker, but we'll see.

[dankok8]

Im not ignoring them.

I said you cant take them at face vavue. If a eague is stronger as a whoe, obviousy SRS and win rates wi be ower for a teams compared to other years. So you need to be carefu with historica evauations/comparisons based off of them, which is exacty what you are doing.

The a star taent is however undeniabe. Which is why youre not comparing it to other runs based on that regard.

I can refute that fact very easiy. Here it goes: iard + McCoum, Nurkic. Harden + Westbrook. Jokic + Murray, Porter. Buter + Adebayo/Herro.

You know who these peope are. MVPs, muti time MVPs, one of the best payoff performers ever, DPOTY..


to say the 2015 Harden/Howard Rockets or those Bazers which were the WCSF opponent not the R1 one and the Irving/ove ess Cavs are comparabe to that run, is pretty far fetched.

One of the best playoff performers ever?

Lillard? Nah.. In fact he gets criticized for bottling it in the playoffs.

Harden? Nah.. In fact he gets criticized for bottling it in the playoffs.

Jokic? Nah.. at least not that version of Jokic. He was either outside of the top 10 or borderline top 10 in most metrics that year. Was probably a borderline top 10 player in the league but that's about it. The following season he broke out.

Butler? Ok he had a great finals.. Might not retire a top 100 all-timer though. If the best playoff performer you faced in your title run was Jimmy Butler you probably had an easy run to the title.

2020-2022 is the weakest run of NBA champions in recent history. This year probably continues the trend.

Thing is there were strong teams by SRS in 2020 like the Clippers (+6.66 SRS) and Bucks (+9.41 SRS :bowdown:) but the Lakers didn't face them. The Bucks in particular if Giannis didn't get hurt would have been an infinitely tougher matchup for the Lakers than the comically weak Heat. Not blaming the Lakers for that but pretending they didn't have an easy run is delusional.

[ImKobe]

This dude takes this shit personally. Obsessed with curry like a 12 year old Asian kid. Embarrassing persona. Kill yourself dweeb.

mods?

[ArbitraryWater]

One of the best playoff performers ever?

Lillard? Nah.. In fact he gets criticized for bottling it in the playoffs.

Harden? Nah.. In fact he gets criticized for bottling it in the playoffs.

Jokic? Nah.. at least not that version of Jokic. He was either outside of the top 10 or borderline top 10 in most metrics that year. Was probably a borderline top 10 player in the league but that's about it. The following season he broke out.

Butler? Ok he had a great finals.. Might not retire a top 100 all-timer though. If the best playoff performer you faced in your title run was Jimmy Butler you probably had an easy run to the title.

2020-2022 is the weakest run of NBA champions in recent history. This year probably continues the trend.

Thing is there were strong teams by SRS in 2020 like the Clippers (+6.66 SRS) and Bucks (+9.41 SRS :bowdown:) but the Lakers didn't face them. The Bucks in particular if Giannis didn't get hurt would have been an infinitely tougher matchup for the Lakers than the comically weak Heat. Not blaming the Lakers for that but pretending they didn't have an easy run is delusional.


You wrote all that to focus on the best playoff performers ever which was clearly meant to be Butler?

Butler is well inside the top 100 all time. Probably top 50. Youre taking the piss lol.

Again, you are still ignoring all the all stars in their prime faced. Completely ignoring that talking point.

Lakers took down 3 MVP's, 6 All-NBA'ers in their prime.

Beating peak Harden in the playoffs wasnt easy. Those Rockets only lost to the best teams and were widely regarded as the 2nd or 3rd best team that year and neither the Lakers nor Clippers wanted to face them in R2.

Youre being disingenous about that whole run.

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm

Last year the West had 4 teams that won at least 52 games. This season there was only 1. Denver has the top seed with a point differential of only 3.3. Last season there were 4 teams in the West that had point differentials much better than that. Dallas had a 3.3 differential as the 4 seed last season.

Buddy did you drop your brain somewhere?

I just told you that you cant compare records and amount of 50+ win teams across years.

A 40 win team might be better than a 50 win team from another year.

If the West had more 50 win teams last year, that means other teams probably won more games this year. There is only a finite amount of games for teams or the West to win, after all.

How many 40 win teams did the West have last year? Had 11 this year.

Who's to say everyone got worse? Maybe others simply got better, you dont know.

The fact you cannot grasp this simple concept is pretty scary.

[dankok8]

You wrote all that to focus on the best playoff performers ever which was clearly meant to be Butler?

Butler is well inside the top 100 all time. Probably top 50. Youre taking the piss lol.

Again, you are still ignoring all the all stars in their prime faced. Completely ignoring that talking point.

Lakers took down 3 MVP's, 6 All-NBA'ers in their prime.

Beating peak Harden in the playoffs wasnt easy. Those Rockets only lost to the best teams and were widely regarded as the 2nd or 3rd best team that year and neither the Lakers nor Clippers wanted to face them in R2.

Youre being disingenous about that whole run.

No he isn't. Butler at this point likely makes the HOF which is top 150 or so players ever. Top 100 is not guaranteed. He never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting and never made 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA. What makes him top 50?

Rockets were a 50-win +3.13 SRS team. 6th on offense, 14th on defense. Nothing scary about them.

[tontoz]

Buddy did you drop your brain somewhere?

I just told you that you cant compare records and amount of 50+ win teams across years.

A 40 win team might be better than a 50 win team from another year.

If the West had more 50 win teams last year, that means other teams probably won more games this year. There is only a finite amount of games for teams or the West to win, after all.

How many 40 win teams did the West have last year? Had 11 this year.

Who's to say everyone got worse? Maybe others simply got better, you dont know.

The fact you cannot grasp this simple concept is pretty scary.

So you think it is more likely for 29 other teams to get better, as opposed to one team getting worse?

:roll:

This years team was 23-26 against teams .500+. Last year's team was 27-21 against teams .500 or better. Last year's team had a point differential of +5.5 compared to +1.8 this season. It isn't hard to grasp that the warriors just aren't as good this year.

:facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

So you think it is more likely for 29 other teams to get better, as opposed to one team getting worse?

:roll:

This years team was 23-26 against teams .500+. Last year's team was 27-21 against teams .500 or better. Last year's team had a point differential of +5.5 compared to +1.8 this season. It isn't hard to grasp that the warriors just aren't as good this year.

:facepalm

Dude, how do I have to explain this to you?

Its very possible that 5-6 teams got better. That alone can scrap 10 games minimum. The fact you cant wrap your head around the concept that 50 wins might not be equal to a 50 win season in another year is hilarious.

No shit the reguar season Warriors werent as good. By the playoffs youre usually getting the real version though. And theyre getting punked by a team that isnt elite.

There is no reason to assume some kind of steep decline. Its definitely not age.

[tontoz]

Dude, how do I have to explain this to you?

Its very possible that 5-6 teams got better. That alone can scrap 10 games minimum. The fact you cant wrap your head around the concept that 50 wins might not be equal to a 50 win season in another year is hilarious.

No shit the reguar season Warriors werent as good. By the playoffs youre usually getting the real version though. And theyre getting punked by a team that isnt elite.

There is no reason to assume some kind of steep decline. Its definitely not age.

Teams get better or worse every season dumbass.

What metrics do you use other than record or point differential to determine if a team got better or worse?

This should be amusing. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

No he isn't. Butler at this point likely makes the HOF which is top 150 or so players ever. Top 100 is not guaranteed. He never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting and never made 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA. What makes him top 50?

Rockets were a 50-win +3.13 SRS team. 6th on offense, 14th on defense. Nothing scary about them.


Butler is playing at all star level for a decade now. 5x All NBA, 5x All Defensive Team. One of the best playoff performers ever. Has a couple sick 40+ pt games within 5 finals games. Led the Heat to a #1 seed.

Everywhere he's gone to, he's significantly raised the ceiling of teams. Timberwolves, Sixers, Heat... led the Timberwolves to a top 4 seed before his injury. Sixers were basically a shot away from the finals. Heat in the finals and 1 shot away from the finals another year. Maybe more heroics this year, too.

Rockets dropped the last 3 games in the bubble cause they were basically penciled in for a 4-5 match-up and there was no HC. Many people picked them to beat the Lakers.

You keep omitting context from everything you say and it really makes conversing with you difficut. I'll refrain from now on.

[ArbitraryWater]

Teams get better or worse every season dumbass.

What metrics do you use other than record or point differential to determine if a team got better or worse?

This should be amusing. :oldlol:


Are you blind deaf or both? :lol

The Warriors were worse in the regular season, yes.

The rest goes as this:

By the playoffs youre usually getting the real version though. And theyre getting punked by a team that isnt elite.

There is no reason to assume some kind of steep decline. Its definitely not age.


Tip for the future: Stop putting so much emphasis on W/L historically when its incomparable. Or at least to prove that a league was somehow better because it had more 50 win teams. That means you have a peanut brain.

You must think the 2008 West is a lot better than this years West :lol

[tpols]

No he isn't. Butler at this point likely makes the HOF which is top 150 or so players ever. Top 100 is not guaranteed. He never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting and never made 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA. What makes him top 50?

Rockets were a 50-win +3.13 SRS team. 6th on offense, 14th on defense. Nothing scary about them.


The 2020 rockets looked legit until Westbrook came back, destroyed their spacing, and shot them out of the series.

Overall though? Yea... the 2020 run was one of the weakest ever. Ironically the Lakers faced the jokic Nuggets in the conference Finals while the Warriors saw them in the 1st round. And then the Heat with Bam missing games. And then the context of it being in front of no crowd and no home courts with months separating the regular season and playoffs... 2020 is as big an asterisk as can ever be considered.

Before this thread I never heard anyone say last years title was weak. Warriors were dead in the water against the Celtics until late game 4. They didn't steamroll anything and it was a tough battle.

[tontoz]

Are you blind deaf or both? :lol

The Warriors were worse in the regular season, yes.

The rest goes as this:



Tip for the future: Stop putting so much emphasis on W/L historically when its incomparable. Or at least to prove that a league was somehow better because it had more 50 win teams. That means you have a peanut brain.

You must think the 2008 West is a lot better than this years West :lol


So you concede that this year's warriors were worse than last years. I guess you conceded since you can't.come up with another way to measure whether a team got better or worse.

It is a historical fact that regular season record is the best predictor of postseason success. It isn't foolproof obviously but a 1 seed wins the title about half the time historically.

Of course last year's warriors didn't get the top seed but they did win 53 games, same as Denver this year, in spite of the fact that Dray and Klay missed more games than they played.

Klay played over twice as many games this year compared to last year. Dray played 27 more games this year yet they still have a far worse record, and sure enough their weak regular season play has continued in the post season.

[Axe]

They faced teams with injuries to key players otw to the finals last year, i believe.

[Akeem34TheDream]

A lot of people forget that Butler had basically zero help in the 2020 finals. Bam was injured and missed two and a half games. Dragic only played 34minutes in total. 20 year old rookie Herro and sophomore Robinson were the 2nd and the 3rd options. Undrafted 24 year old rookie Kendrick Nunn was playing significant minutes. Who were a worse Finals team in the last 15 years? Maybe 2015 Cavs?

[dankok8]

Butler is playing at all star level for a decade now. 5x All NBA, 5x All Defensive Team. One of the best playoff performers ever. Has a couple sick 40+ pt games within 5 finals games. Led the Heat to a #1 seed.

Everywhere he's gone to, he's significantly raised the ceiling of teams. Timberwolves, Sixers, Heat... led the Timberwolves to a top 4 seed before his injury. Sixers were basically a shot away from the finals. Heat in the finals and 1 shot away from the finals another year. Maybe more heroics this year, too.

Rockets dropped the last 3 games in the bubble cause they were basically penciled in for a 4-5 match-up and there was no HC. Many people picked them to beat the Lakers.

You keep omitting context from everything you say and it really makes conversing with you difficut. I'll refrain from now on.

But I'm not omitting context. I've included all the context but you just chose to ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

[ArbitraryWater]

But I'm not omitting context. I've included all the context but you just chose to ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative.


I'm literally replying to everything and weighing it together.

Its you who keeps saying stuff regarding records while leaving out key information, or not going into the fact that the league is deeper now which will balance out records while acknowledging talent is higher, and who won't even acknowledge the amount of all-stars played in their prime. You obviously don't consider those things at all, since you for whatever reason conclude a Dame/McCollum Blazers, Harden/Westbrook Rockets, Jokic/Murray/Porter Nuggets and Butler/Bam/Herro Heat run is one of the top 5 weakest ever.

Thats pretty funny.

[ArbitraryWater]

The 2020 rockets looked legit until Westbrook came back, destroyed their spacing, and shot them out of the series.

Overall though? Yea... the 2020 run was one of the weakest ever. Ironically the Lakers faced the jokic Nuggets in the conference Finals while the Warriors saw them in the 1st round.


oh really? the same Nuggets yea? :lol


the Blazers the Lakers saw in R1 were closer to the Blazers the 2019 Warriors saw in the WCF than the difference of those Nuggets.

[SouBeachTalents]

oh really? the same Nuggets yea? :lol


the Blazers the Lakers saw in R1 were closer to the Blazers the 2019 Warriors saw in the WCF than the difference of those Nuggets.
Leaving out that the Nuggets were missing Murray/Porter is some 3ball level dishonesty :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Leaving out that the Nuggets were missing Murray/Porter is some 3ball level dishonesty :lol

thats some ImKobe level shit. I love how casually he says it, "Ironically, ..." straight face and all. Smh.

[Axe]

The 2020 rockets looked legit until Westbrook came back, destroyed their spacing, and shot them out of the series.

Overall though? Yea... the 2020 run was one of the weakest ever. Ironically the Lakers faced the jokic Nuggets in the conference Finals while the Warriors saw them in the 1st round. And then the Heat with Bam missing games. And then the context of it being in front of no crowd and no home courts with months separating the regular season and playoffs... 2020 is as big an asterisk as can ever be considered.

Before this thread I never heard anyone say last years title was weak. Warriors were dead in the water against the Celtics until late game 4. They didn't steamroll anything and it was a tough battle.
I remember that time you actually called anthony davis 'abdul jabbar' during the 2020 disney bubble. :oldlol:

Hell, you even thought he was mvp-caliber in a span of less than 25 games. :lebronamazed:

[dankok8]

I'm literally replying to everything and weighing it together.

Its you who keeps saying stuff regarding records while leaving out key information, or not going into the fact that the league is deeper now which will balance out records while acknowledging talent is higher, and who won't even acknowledge the amount of all-stars played in their prime. You obviously don't consider those things at all, since you for whatever reason conclude a Dame/McCollum Blazers, Harden/Westbrook Rockets, Jokic/Murray/Porter Nuggets and Butler/Bam/Herro Heat run is one of the top 5 weakest ever.

Thats pretty funny.

Dude stop with the deep league bullshit. The Lakers in 2020 just didn't face the best teams in the playoffs. Their opponents were 16th, 7th, 10th and 8th in SRS and that's not counting the injury breaks in Round 1 and Finals. They avoided the top 2 teams in the Clippers and Bucks. Clippers lost early and the Bucks got injured. Sometimes things break that way. In the modern NBA though with the number of injuries in every postseason, I think it will happen almost every year. Don't think this year's champion will face the gauntlet either. It is what it is...

For comparison:

2021 Bucks' opponents were 16th, 7th, 10th and 3rd in SRS with both the 7th Nets and 10th Hawks destroyed by key injuries.

2022 Warriors' opponents were 12th, 5th, 8th and 1st in SRS so they faced the best competition of the three recent champs.

[Stephonit]

I'm literally replying to everything and weighing it together.

Its you who keeps saying stuff regarding records while leaving out key information, or not going into the fact that the league is deeper now which will balance out records while acknowledging talent is higher, and who won't even acknowledge the amount of all-stars played in their prime. You obviously don't consider those things at all, since you for whatever reason conclude a Dame/McCollum Blazers, Harden/Westbrook Rockets, Jokic/Murray/Porter Nuggets and Butler/Bam/Herro Heat run is one of the top 5 weakest ever.

Thats pretty funny.

Extremely funny coming from you. I only see one All-NBA First Team player from 2020 on that list.

Yet you're the same guy calling the Warriors' 2015 and 2022 runs weak in which they each beat 4 All-NBA First Team players on their way to the title?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dude stop with the deep league bullshit. The Lakers in 2020 just didn't face the best teams in the playoffs. Their opponents were 16th, 7th, 10th and 8th in SRS and that's not counting the injury breaks in Round 1 and Finals. They avoided the top 2 teams in the Clippers and Bucks. Clippers lost early and the Bucks got injured. Sometimes things break that way. In the modern NBA though with the number of injuries in every postseason, I think it will happen almost every year. Don't think this year's champion will face the gauntlet either. It is what it is...

For comparison:

2021 Bucks' opponents were 16th, 7th, 10th and 3rd in SRS with both the 7th Nets and 10th Hawks destroyed by key injuries.

2022 Warriors' opponents were 12th, 5th, 8th and 1st in SRS so they faced the best competition of the three recent champs.

You can use these stats to tell yourself the Grizzlies were better than the Rockets or Mavs were better than the Nuggets, but deep down you know its bullshit.


Lillard, McCollum, Harden, Westbrook, Jokic, Murray, Butler, Bam.

8 all-star level/vote getter players taken out.

[ArbitraryWater]

Extremely funny coming from you. I only see one All-NBA First Team player from 2020 on that list.

Yet you're the same guy calling the Warriors' 2015 and 2022 runs weak in which they each beat 4 All-NBA First Team players on their way to the title?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


They dont have to make that team that exact same year, dummie. They all made it around that year and werent any worse. Thats what matters.

Was MJs weak helper in 91 cause Pip wasnt an all star? No, Pip was the same player he was as in 92 and 93.

Learn common sense.

[ArbitraryWater]

One of the best playoff performers ever?

Lillard? Nah.. In fact he gets criticized for bottling it in the playoffs.

Harden? Nah.. In fact he gets criticized for bottling it in the playoffs.

Jokic? Nah.. at least not that version of Jokic. He was either outside of the top 10 or borderline top 10 in most metrics that year. Was probably a borderline top 10 player in the league but that's about it. The following season he broke out.

Butler? Ok he had a great finals.. Might not retire a top 100 all-timer though. If the best playoff performer you faced in your title run was Jimmy Butler you probably had an easy run to the title.

2020-2022 is the weakest run of NBA champions in recent history. This year probably continues the trend.

Thing is there were strong teams by SRS in 2020 like the Clippers (+6.66 SRS) and Bucks (+9.41 SRS :bowdown:) but the Lakers didn't face them. The Bucks in particular if Giannis didn't get hurt would have been an infinitely tougher matchup for the Lakers than the comically weak Heat. Not blaming the Lakers for that but pretending they didn't have an easy run is delusional.


:oldlol:


I am always right.


but but srs!

[ArbitraryWater]

One of the best playoff performers ever?

Butler? Ok he had a great finals.. Might not retire a top 100 all-timer though. If the best playoff performer you faced in your title run was Jimmy Butler you probably had an easy run to the title.


No he isn't. Butler at this point likely makes the HOF which is top 150 or so players ever. Top 100 is not guaranteed. He never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting and never made 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA. What makes him top 50?


can Jimmy Butler make the top 100 all time?

Who knows. dankok is on the fence :rolleyes:

[Axe]

We, you totay exposed him rt mao.

[SouBeachTalents]

Those posts are not gonna age well :lol

[kawhileonard2]

They had much better competition than the 2020 Lakers that is for sure.

[Pipes2.0]

Yes, they absolutely have.

Nuggets missing Murray, the Suns would have spanked their asses if they didn't choke hard against the Mavs, and the Bucks missing Middleton, it was the perfect storm for them to win the title.

[dankok8]

You can use these stats to tell yourself the Grizzlies were better than the Rockets or Mavs were better than the Nuggets, but deep down you know its bullshit.


Lillard, McCollum, Harden, Westbrook, Jokic, Murray, Butler, Bam.

8 all-star level/vote getter players taken out.

2020 Rockets, 2020 Nuggets, 2022 Grizzlies and 2022 Mavs are all pretty mediocre teams to be fair. I wouldn't brag about beating any of them. :violin:

But the 2022 Celtics are much better than the 2020 Heat.

[Stephonit]

Fans of a certain manufactured star doing whatever they can to come up with narratives because of their insecurities regarding their idol whose achievements are qualitatively less impressive than what has happened with the Warriors.

[hold this L]

Fans of a certain manufactured star doing whatever they can to come up with narratives because of their insecurities regarding their idol whose achievements are qualitatively less impressive than what has happened with the Warriors.
This place is going to shut down for a few days if Warriors Lakers happens next round and Lebron losses for the 4th time in the playoffs to Steph.

[tpols]

This place is going to shut down for a few days if Warriors Lakers happens next round and Lebron losses for the 4th time in the playoffs to Steph.

Yea... and chef is going to have to face them with way less help. I can't even imagine what the warriors would do with AD instead of dray.

[ArbitraryWater]

2020 Rockets, 2020 Nuggets, 2022 Grizzlies and 2022 Mavs are all pretty mediocre teams to be fair. I wouldn't brag about beating any of them. :violin:

But the 2022 Celtics are much better than the 2020 Heat.

Who would you take between the 2020 Lakers and 2022 Warriors?

[dankok8]

Who would you take between the 2020 Lakers and 2022 Warriors?

Matchup wise Lakers. If they faced each other 2020 Lakers would win because the Warriors couldn't deal with their size. However generally speaking I'd go Warriors by a bit.

[ArbitraryWater]

Matchup wise Lakers. If they faced each other 2020 Lakers would win because the Warriors couldn't deal with their size. However generally speaking I'd go Warriors by a bit.


Nice cop-out answer lol.

Generelly speaking youd take the Warriors, "by a bit" bit as in little bit or good bit?

So you think against other teams, the lakers would have more problems than the Warriors? Weird.

[tpols]

Nice cop-out answer lol.

Generelly speaking youd take the Warriors, "by a bit" bit as in little bit or good bit?

So you think against other teams, the lakers would have more problems than the Warriors? Weird.


It's not really that weird because the Lakers have a huge size advantage on the Warriors and have 2 out of 3 of the top elite players on both teams.

LeBron, Curry, and AD are the only superstars on both teams and the Lakers are deep too so it would be a big upset for the warriors to beat them.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's not really that weird because the Lakers have a huge size advantage on the Warriors and have 2 out of 3 of the top elite players on both teams.

LeBron, Curry, and AD are the only superstars on both teams and the Lakers are deep too so it would be a big upset for the warriors to beat them.

Oh I know, its just funny to see this and sti say GSW was better "by a bit".

cause GSW woud ave their match-up edge in the match-up aso. It just seems ike the akers strength woud be more imposing, and that appies to any opponent.

[Axe]

It's not really that weird because the Lakers have a huge size advantage on the Warriors and have 2 out of 3 of the top elite players on both teams.

LeBron, Curry, and AD are the only superstars on both teams and the Lakers are deep too so it would be a big upset for the warriors to beat them.
Yep, a big upset in case they're going to face a hampered lebron while having the hca in the next round indeed. :rolleyes:

[TheMan]

wait a minute, the last 3?

I feel like the Lakers 2020 tite is among one of the best runs ever.

1R: Lillard, McCollum
2R: Harden, Westbrook
WCF: Jokic, Murray, Porter
Finals: Butler, Adebayo, Herro


Gotta be up there.
:roll:

[tpols]

Oh I know, its just funny to see this and sti say GSW was better "by a bit".

cause GSW woud ave their match-up edge in the match-up aso. It just seems ike the akers strength woud be more imposing, and that appies to any opponent.

The warriors path was tougher, but the Lakers with AD and Lebron and all their ridiculous depth are better. How is that funny?

The warriors were an inch away from being down 3-1 to the loaded prime Celtics. They had to battle to actually win. The Lakers? They faced a depleted Miami team with their 2nd best player missing games and it was never in question.

[dankok8]

Nice cop-out answer lol.

Generelly speaking youd take the Warriors, "by a bit" bit as in little bit or good bit?

So you think against other teams, the lakers would have more problems than the Warriors? Weird.

A little bit because the Warriors are deeper. The 2022 Warriors probably sweep the 2020 Heat and the 2020 Lakers against the 2022 Celtics would be a coin toss that could go either way.

[SATAN]

Yea... and chef is going to have to face them with way less help. I can't even imagine what the warriors would do with AD instead of dray.

Expect him to miss half the season and watch him wincing in pain on the floor almost every single game that he plays?

[Axe]

I wonder how come this team completely lost b2b games during the 2021 play-ins but suddenly ended up winning the title in the following year? I'm guessing they're not really all that potent without their core.

[tontoz]

I wonder how come this team completely lost b2b games during the 2021 play-ins but suddenly ended up winning the title in the following year? I'm guessing they're not really all that potent without their core.

It wasn't just the fact that they were missing Klay. It was also a big difference in their role players. In 2022 they had Porter and GP2. In '21 they didn't yet they still finished the season 39-33 in spite of going 2-7 in the games Curry missed.

They were 29-9 in 2022 before Klay played his first game.

Curry dropped almost 80 points in those two play in games. He went off he just didn't have enough help.

[PeroAntic]

I dont think 2020 was an asterisk ring, agreed with arbitrary waiter that it was a tough road to the title. At the same time the Lakers were strong favorites to win it. But the Warriors run last year was just weird, they did beat an elite Celtics team in the finals but they way they did was just awkward and really based on some specific tactical schemes to counter the opponent rather than overall strength of the team. The 2017 and even the 2015 Warriors would destroy last year Warriors.

[ArbitraryWater]

I dont think 2020 was an asterisk ring, agreed with arbitrary waiter that it was a tough road to the title. At the same time the Lakers were strong favorites to win it. But the Warriors run last year was just weird, they did beat an elite Celtics team in the finals but they way they did was just awkward and really based on some specific tactical schemes to counter the opponent rather than overall strength of the team. The 2017 and even the 2015 Warriors would destroy last year Warriors.


bingo although disagree that the 2015 warriors would destroy them. i doubt they beat them. that run was even more fluky. they had more problems with an even weaker team.

[Stephonit]

Grizzlies were the toughest opponent in the West, they're a solid team but not a title contender.

The Celtics then forgot how to play offense in the finals and Tatum completely wet the bed, and it wasnt like they blew them out.

It was one of the weaker winning runs I can remember tbh.


Shame for the Bucks (Middleton injury) cause they would have been apt winners.

This comment aging like rotting eggs.