Hate to say it ... Lebron is overrated

[d-wade2923]

Im a Cleveland fan and I live in Cleveland but Lebron is overrated. The media was overhyping this guy from the beginning and he hasnt lived up to expectations. Hes a complete choke in the 4th quarter. His jump shot is terrible. All of his points are either dunks, layups, or foul shots. The Spurs forced him into shooting jumpers and look what happened. He chokes at the free throw line as well. I always hear about potential but potential and present-day skill are completely different. Hes good for dunking over ppl if thats what ppl call greatness. He had one good game against detroit and ppl bow down to him. What was his field goal percentage in the finals...20%?! If gibson was not on the team the cavs would have never won game 6 against detroit.
Im not saying that hes a bad player and I still think hes a top 5 nba player right now. But nonetheless unless he develops and jump shot and becomes more clutch he will never be what ppl say he is. I do give him credit for making it to the finals w/ a fairly bad team but who did the cavs play...a depleted wizards team, an aging nets team, and the pistons who have lost their edge. Cleveland desperately needs a championship and I hope Lebron gets out of this funk hes in and becomes a winner.

[Lebron23]

Kid, How can you be a Cleveland fan if your name is D-wade?

:confusedshrug:

[trig]

Cleveland fan with Dwade username lol

lets wait for cannonball and lebron23... this is going to be fun

[steadyfast96]

Oooh! a D-Wade fan calling Lebron overrated. Can't wait to hear the responses...

But yeah, personally I think this whole Lebron "Chosen 1" "King" or whatever is gone overboard.

[LakersDynasty]

Im a Cleveland fan and I live in Cleveland but Lebron is overrated.
:oldlol: And yet you have D-Wade in your username.

[d-wade2923]

whats wrong with having d-wade username...i do
like d-wade better but im still a cleveland fan even tho it is prolly the worst sports city with 3 major teams

[brwnman]

Lebron is not overrated... he is a beast... wade is the one who is overrated, but people on ish know that...


P.S. - Paul Pierce is underrated...

[mlh1981]

Im a Cleveland fan and I live in Cleveland but Lebron is overrated. The media was overhyping this guy from the beginning and he hasnt lived up to expectations. Hes a complete choke in the 4th quarter. His jump shot is terrible. All of his points are either dunks, layups, or foul shots. The Spurs forced him into shooting jumpers and look what happened. He chokes at the free throw line as well. I always hear about potential but potential and present-day skill are completely different. Hes good for dunking over ppl if thats what ppl call greatness. He had one good game against detroit and ppl bow down to him. What was his field goal percentage in the finals...20%?! If gibson was not on the team the cavs would have never won game 6 against detroit.
Im not saying that hes a bad player and I still think hes a top 5 nba player right now. But nonetheless unless he develops and jump shot and becomes more clutch he will never be what ppl say he is. I do give him credit for making it to the finals w/ a fairly bad team but who did the cavs play...a depleted wizards team, an aging nets team, and the pistons who have lost their edge. Cleveland desperately needs a championship and I hope Lebron gets out of this funk hes in and becomes a winner.

First off, LeBron is still 22 years old. Many 22 years old in the league just finished up their rookie season. He is still learning and growing. Everyone has to face adversity and hard times before the reach the mountaintop. It took Jordan many times before he was able to overcome the Pistons and get to the finals.

As for the level of competition, true the east sucks, but they still had to show up, execute, and make shots. Would they have made it to the finals if they were in the western conference? Hell no. HOwever, the real world isn't about hypotheticals. They played the hand that they were dealt, and did something that no other Cleveland team has ever done

[dejordan]

bron gets a lot of hype but he's almost a sure fire hall of famer too. he's one of the most uniquely gifted athletes i've ever seen with his combination of strength, speed, and coordination. he's a team-oriented guy who wants to make smart plays rather than forcing his own number which is what it takes to win - though you need the right system and the right chemistry for it to work. his defense has improved. he's what 22? imo it would take a lot of bad luck to keep this kid from spearheading a dynasty once cleveland puts all the pieces together.

[d-wade2923]

bron gets a lot of hype but he's almost a sure fire hall of famer too. he's one of the most uniquely gifted athletes i've ever seen with his combination of strength, speed, and coordination. he's a team-oriented guy who wants to make smart plays rather than forcing his own number which is what it takes to win - though you need the right system and the right chemistry for it to work. his defense has improved. he's what 22? imo it would take a lot of bad luck to keep this kid from spearheading a dynasty once cleveland puts all the pieces together.

lol cleveland has had plenty of bad luck...but i agree with everything u said except thats hes a sure hall of famer b/c like u said hes only 22

[Richie2k6]

Aren't you the same person that said D-Wade is the entire Miami Heat team and that James Posey is a pure jumpshooter? :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

http://www.hotrodsworld.com/images/lebron-james-mvp-poster.jpg


Lebron might be hype by ESPN and David Stern but he deserve the praise of his peers and other NBA Players, he is probably one of the top 3 best player in the NBA. It not only take guts, talents and athletism to make it in the NBA Finals and beating Detroit in 6 games but James show some heart and emotion by being unselfish to his teammates.

Lebron James scoring 29 out of his team 30 Points only prove that big time players step up on big time competition. If Lebron James choke in the 1st round of the playoffs, we can all say that he is an overrated player but coming up from HS he even exceed his expectation only on his 4th season and reaching the NBA Finals.

Just what Tim Duncan said Lebron will learn from his past mistake and he will be getting his championship rings once his team is well organize and the missing piece in the puzzle has been added.

[d-wade2923]

Aren't you the same person that said D-Wade is the entire Miami Heat team and that James Posey is a pure jumpshooter? :oldlol:

not the posey part.....arent u the one who said that gary payton is still great at driving to the basket...:oldlol:

[Richie2k6]

not the posey part.....arent u the one who said that gary payton is still great at driving to the basket...:oldlol:
No... you said he was useless and I said he wasn't.

[IGOTGAME]

Wow i wouldnt say Lebron is overrated at all...Dude is a beast, i dont like his game but I wouldnt say he is overrated..He is a top 5 player in the league at age 22...thats amazing

The only people who come close to overrating Lebron is ESPN... did any1 see Who's Now when Mike from Mike and Mike said... "we came up with the idea of Who's Now for Lebron James"

[d-wade2923]

http://www.hotrodsworld.com/images/lebron-james-mvp-poster.jpg


Lebron might be hype by ESPN and David Stern but he deserve the praise of his peers and other NBA Players, he is probably one of the top 3 best player in the NBA. It not only take guts, talents and athletism to make it in the NBA Finals and beating Detroit in 6 games but James show some heart and emotion by being unselfish to his teammates.

Lebron James scoring 29 out of his team 30 Points only prove that big time players step up on big time competition. If Lebron James choke in the 1st round of the playoffs, we can all say that he is an overrated player but coming up from HS he even exceed his expectation only on his 4th season and reaching the NBA Finals.

Just what Tim Duncan said Lebron will learn from his past mistake and he will be getting his championship rings once his team is well organize and the missing piece in the puzzle has been added.

the only thing is the cavs arent doing anything in the offseason point guard wise...i like gibson but i think he is more of shooter than a facilitator...i wish they would trade for bibby by dealing varejao, hughes, and maybe even gibson...w/e it takes...I hate varejao for what he did in game 3 of the finals...he thought he was michael Jordan driving to the basket at the end when he shouldve passed it to lebron

[d-wade2923]

Wow i wouldnt say Lebron is overrated at all...Dude is a beast, i dont like his game but I wouldnt say he is overrated..He is a top 5 player in the league at age 22...thats amazing

The only people who come close to overrating Lebron is ESPN... did any1 see Who's Now when Mike from Mike and Mike said... "we came up with the idea of Who's Now for Lebron James"

Whos Now should be called Whos Gay...I mean how the hell was shaq ranked higher than wade...are we talkin about whos then or whos now

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Lebron is overrated by some but he does have flaws but who doesn't? He is only 22 he will probably develop his jumper to be atleast a bit better. When his team gets better he will win rings and all that. He has lived up to the hype. He took his team to the finals. What more do you want from a 22 year old.

[trig]

Lebron and Dwade are both overated bec of the david stern rules. He has been trying to give some life and hype to the east and is looking for his next MJ

[d-wade2923]

Lebron is overrated by some but he does have flaws but who doesn't? He is only 22 he will probably develop his jumper to be atleast a bit better. When his team gets better he will win rings and all that. He has lived up to the hype. He took his team to the finals. What more do you want from a 22 year old.

To at least show up in the finals

[Cannonball]

Wow i wouldnt say Lebron is overrated at all...Dude is a beast, i dont like his game but I wouldnt say he is overrated..He is a top 5 player in the league at age 22...thats amazing

The only people who come close to overrating Lebron is ESPN... did any1 see Who's Now when Mike from Mike and Mike said... "we came up with the idea of Who's Now for Lebron James"
:applause:

I have to applaud you, I was fully expecting you to come in and bash lebron.

[YAWN]

Lebron is overrated. I think hes a good player and i do agree that he will get better. But alot of people act like hes already become that player that he may be in 4 years. Lets hope he gets a jumpshot before ESPN turns on him and starts hyping Kevin Durant.

[Cannonball]

To at least show up in the finals
He showed up. He played his hardest. The spurs were to good. I'm wouldn't admit it at the beginning but the cavs had no chance. Well they had a chance, but not a realistic one.

[Richie2k6]

To at least show up in the finals
It was his own fault he was stupid enough to shoot 34% because he was scared to attack the rim when Bruce Bowen, the, what, 6"5 man? was guarding him. I remember in one of the games, he posted him up and layed it in twice in a row and it worked with ease. Third time? He started shooting jumpshots again.

He was playing stupidly for the most part.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

To at least show up in the finals
Well its the Spurs probably the best defensive team in the league. Yes Lebron did make some bad mistakes but its his first finals and you can't expect an amazing performance vs. the great defense. Lebron wasn't too bad in game 3 of the series. 25 8 rebs 7 ast on 9-23 shooting. But I agree that he wasn't what I expected him to be.

[Cannonball]

Lebron is overrated. I think hes a good player and i do agree that he will get better. But alot of people act like hes already become that player that he may be in 4 years. Lets hope he gets a jumpshot before ESPN turns on him and starts hyping Kevin Durant.
He is a top 5 player no question.

If he gets a J which I know he will, he will be the best in the nba. Right now kobe is deff better.

[d-wade2923]

He showed up. He played his hardest. The spurs were to good. I'm wouldn't admit it at the beginning but the cavs had no chance. Well they had a chance, but not a realistic one.

The cavs beat the spurs twice in the season so i think it would be fair to say that the spurs were not as invincible as every1 is saying they are

[Cannonball]

It was his own fault he was stupid enough to shoot 34% because he was scared to attack the rim when Bruce Bowen, the, what, 6"5 man? was guarding him. I remember in one of the games, he posted him up and layed it in twice in a row and it worked with ease. Third time? He started shooting jumpshots again.

He was playing stupidly for the most part.

Exactly I remember that, I was like why doesn't he go to the post he can pwn bowen down there? He went down a couple times got some easy scores and then wtf no more? I think that could be browns fault tho. Why wouldn't he tell lebron to get his ass on the block?

[Rockets(T-mac)]

The cavs beat the spurs twice in the season so i think it would be fair to say that the spurs were not as invincible as every1 is saying they are
Season really doesn't mean ****.

[Cannonball]

The cavs beat the spurs twice in the season so i think it would be fair to say that the spurs were not as invincible as every1 is saying they are
I think its safe to say that the bobcats are better than the cavs then. :rollingeyes:

Yep the bobcats beat the cavs twice in the reg season.

Bobcats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cavs.

:banghead:

[d-wade2923]

Season really doesn't mean ****.

It does sometimes...Golden State was successful against dallas in the season and it carried over to the playoffs

[d-wade2923]

I think its safe to say that the bobcats are better than the cavs then. :rollingeyes:

Yep the bobcats beat the cavs twice in the reg season.

Bobcats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cavs.

:banghead:

I didnt say that the cavs are better than the spurs. I just said that the spurs were obviously beatable since the cavs beat them twice in the regular season.

[Richie2k6]

I didnt say that the cavs are better than the spurs. I just said that the spurs were obviously beatable since the cavs beat them twice in the regular season.
But the Spurs have Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Finley, Popovich. All have experience in the Playoffs. The Cavaliers really didn't have much of that at all.

[Cannonball]

I didnt say that the cavs are better than the spurs. I just said that the spurs were obviously beatable since the cavs beat them twice in the regular season.
No it does not. The cavs with kobe in place of lebron would have won one more game. Why is it lebrons fault?

[d-wade2923]

But the Spurs have Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Finley, Popovich. All have experience in the Playoffs. The Cavaliers really didn't have much of that at all.

WE HAD ERIC SNOW...hahahaha

[d-wade2923]

No it does not. The cavs with kobe in place of lebron would have won one more game. Why is it lebrons fault?

I think its the teams fault more than lebron. But lebron sure didnt help things but throwing up bricks and turning the ball over. One thing that I cannot stand about lebron is how he continuously dribbles outside the arc doing absolutely nothing with the ball and then he fires up a crazy 3 when the shot winds down. And by the way...I hate mike brown. Youd think that the cavs would hire an experienced coach whos won b4 to help a bright superstar along.

[Cannonball]

I think its the teams fault more than lebron. But lebron sure didnt help things but throwing up bricks and turning the ball over. One thing that I cannot stand about lebron is how he continuously dribbles outside the arc doing absolutely nothing with the ball and then he fires up a crazy 3 when the shot winds down. And by the way...I hate mike brown. Youd think that the cavs would hire an experienced coach whos won b4 to help a bright superstar along.
Agreed with the dribbling out at the 3 and standing there with the ball in his arms staring at the guy... Wtf is that?

[-primetime-]

Lebron is not overrated... he is a beast... wade is the one who is overrated, but people on ish know that...

agreed...

Lee-Bron > Wade

[Cannonball]

agreed...

Lee-Bron > Wade
not by much.

more like half of a (>).

[IGOTGAME]

agreed...

Lee-Bron > Wade
after what wade did to your Mavs i thought you would show him more respect, but you seem to always trash him...

[YAWN]

not by much.

Lebron ≈ Dwade

[-primetime-]

not by much.

more like half of a (>).
BULL SHIT

I will take a big tall 22 year old monster that has the ability to take a team to the Finals without Shaq Daddy over a foul shooter in a wheel chair any day.

[Poseidon]

LeBron is overrated....but so is D-Whistle.

I'd still take Wade over LeBron any day of the week though.

[-primetime-]

after what wade did to your Mavs i thought you would show him more respect, but you seem to always trash him...
don't make me post the "phantom fouls" dude...

you're gonna make me post those aren't you?

[Poseidon]

BULL SHIT

I will take a big tall 22 year old monster that has the ability to take a team to the Finals without Shaq Daddy over a foul shooter in a wheel chair any day.

You do realize that "foul shooter in a wheel-chair" single-handedly squashed your team in the 2006 NBA Finals right?

Oh and Wade was the one who carried Shaq.....NOT the other way around.

Wade > LeBron > Dirk

[Cannonball]

BULL SHIT

I will take a big tall 22 year old monster that has the ability to take a team to the Finals without Shaq Daddy over a foul shooter in a wheel chair any day.
I would take lebron but like I said just by a half of a "<"

[d-wade2923]

don't make me post the "phantom fouls" dude...

you're gonna make me post those aren't you?

I didnt want this to turn into a wade vs. lebron forum. I think wade is better but I agree that lebron has "potential." God I hate that word.

[jackjohnson]

Wade is better than lebron james imo it's not even close to me. Wade's only problem is that he is injury prone because unlike lebron he plays hard every minute every game and doesn't mail in half the season.

[-primetime-]

You do realize that "foul shooter in a wheel-chair" single-handedly squashed your team in the 2006 NBA Finals right?

Oh and Wade was the one who carried Shaq.....NOT the other way around.

Wade > LeBron > Dirk
you made me do this...

your fault

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk

he single handedly fouled his way to victory...

28 free throws in one half...NBA record

no one was sallowed to even look in his direction

[Cannonball]

I didnt want this to turn into a wade vs. lebron forum. I think wade is better but I agree that lebron has "potential." God I hate that word.
Its on Bitch!


LeBron is slightly better than Dwade, he is a better scorer. If you take away shaq dwade isn't going to be getting his full 28ppg. LeBron gets you 27 a game without shaq.

LeBron is a better passer. How you ask? Because he can hit any guy on the floor from anywhere without even looking. 1 assist less per game, yet no shaq.

LeBron is only slightly worse defensively. Wade is a good thief and blocker but he takes to many risks. LeBron doesn't take as many risks and tries stay in front of his man. LeBron has improved a ton on the defensive side of the ball.

LeBron is a better leader. He motivates like no other.

LeBron is a better rebounder.

But like I said it is VERY close.

LeBron James half of a ">" Dwayne Wade

[jackjohnson]

you made me do this...

your fault

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk

he single handedly fouled his way to victory...

28 free throws in one half...NBA record

no one was sallowed to even look in his direction

even so, he singlehandedly beat the Pistons that year when then Pistons were actually still good. im sorry but give me a healthy wade over healhty lebron any day

[-primetime-]

even so, he singlehandedly beat the Pistons that year when then Pistons were actually still good. im sorry but give me a healthy wade over healhty lebron any day

"any day"

ok...we will see how you feel about that "any day" three years from now when Shaq is gone and Wade has been exposed as amazingly over-rated

do think that if Wade played for the Cavs instead of Lebron that they would have gone to the Finals?....HELL NO

[d-wade2923]

"any day"

ok...we will see how you feel about that "any day" three years from now when Shaq is gone and Wade has been exposed as amazingly over-rated

do think that if Wade played for the Cavs instead of Lebron that they would have gone to the Finals?....HELL NO

how do u kno that

[Cannonball]

even so, he singlehandedly beat the Pistons that year when then Pistons were actually still good. im sorry but give me a healthy wade over healhty lebron any day
shaq had over 21ppg on 66 fg%....

[jackjohnson]

"any day"

ok...we will see how you feel about that "any day" three years from now when Shaq is gone and Wade has been exposed as amazingly over-rated

do think that if Wade played for the Cavs instead of Lebron that they would have gone to the Finals?....HELL NO


haha you must be joking. when shaq was out this year, wade was averaging near triple double figures on a piss poor Heat team. i am pretty sure him, z, varejo, hughes et al would have beaten a wiz team missing its 2 stars and an Old nets team

[Cannonball]

haha you must be joking. when shaq was out this year, wade was averaging near triple double figures on a piss poor Heat team. i am pretty sure him, z, varejo, hughes et al would have beaten a wiz team missing its 2 stars and an Old nets team
that would have gotten them to the ecf. :rollingeyes:

[d-wade2923]

Its on Bitch!


LeBron is slightly better than Dwade, he is a better scorer. If you take away shaq dwade isn't going to be getting his full 28ppg. LeBron gets you 27 a game without shaq.

LeBron is a better passer. How you ask? Because he can hit any guy on the floor from anywhere without even looking. 1 assist less per game, yet no shaq.

LeBron is only slightly worse defensively. Wade is a good thief and blocker but he takes to many risks. LeBron doesn't take as many risks and tries stay in front of his man. LeBron has improved a ton on the defensive side of the ball.

LeBron is a better leader. He motivates like no other.

LeBron is a better rebounder.

But like I said it is VERY close.

LeBron James half of a ">" Dwayne Wade

Im gonna try to make this short cause im tired. Wade is a better scorer than lebron its not even close. Wade has a much better jumper than lebron and he averages more points than lebron. You mean to tell me that if u needed a bucket at the end of the game you would rather give to lebron than wade. Wade averaged the same amt of points if not more w/o shaq the past 2 seasons when shaq was always hurt. They are equally good passers even tho wade averages more assists partly b/c of shaq.
They are equally good drivers b/c wade is quicker but lebron is more explosive. How can u say that lebron is a better leader when he chokes in the 4th quarter and wade is mr. clutch in the 4th. Wade also beat the junk out of the mavs and led his team to a title. Lebron is a better rebounder I will give u that but hes also taller. It is close esp. after what lebron did this yr but wade is still clearly better. Hes a better scorer, shooter, defender, more clutch, and hes won a ring. Lebron is younger, and a better rebounder.

[-primetime-]

haha you must be joking. when shaq was out this year, wade was averaging near triple double figures on a piss poor Heat team. i am pretty sure him, z, varejo, hughes et al would have beaten a wiz team missing its 2 stars and an Old nets team
WHEN SHAQ WAS OUT THE TEAM WAS BELOW .500

when Wade was gone it was SHAQ that took the team to the play-offs...NOT WADE

god that mother****er is sooo over-rated it drves me nuts

and now Shaq is under-rated....HE IS STILL SHAQ

[jackjohnson]

that would have gotten them to the ecf. :rollingeyes:

I'm just saying. lebron james is a great player, but lets not make it out like his run this year was historic.

[Poseidon]

Not sure how this even a debate.

Wade carried his team to a championship over an elite team averaging 36 PPG.

LeBron failed to show up in the Finals as his team got swept.

Wade....by a mile.

[-primetime-]

Not sure how this even a debate.

Wade carried his team to a championship over an elite team averaging 36 PPG.

LeBron failed to show up in the Finals as his team got swept.

Wade....by a mile.
I want to see Wade win something WITHOUT SHAQ...what Lebron did was more impressive

it is hard to win without Shaq

just ask Kobe

[jackjohnson]

I want to see Wade win something WITHOUT SHAQ...what Lebron did was more impressive

it is hard to win without Shaq

just ask Kobe

dude what the HELL are you talking about? Shaq did not do a damn thing against Dallas, in fact every time he went to the bench the Heat went on a run because they were so much better with him out and Mourning in instead.

Wade basically beat the mavs by himself, even the mavs players said it themselves.

[d-wade2923]

I want to see Wade win something WITHOUT SHAQ...what Lebron did was more impressive

it is hard to win without Shaq

just ask Kobe

Kobe also won when shaq was in his prime and shaq had to carry kobe hence shaq won the finals mvp 3 times. Wade had to carry shaq in 2006 finals hence wade won the nba finals mvp. Therefore it would appear that it would be an easier transition for wade to win w/o shaq than it is for kobe.

[Free]

WHEN SHAQ WAS OUT THE TEAM WAS BELOW .500

when Wade was gone it was SHAQ that took the team to the play-offs...NOT WADE

god that mother****er is sooo over-rated it drves me nuts

and now Shaq is under-rated....HE IS STILL SHAQ

Why do you keep saying that? With Wade and without Shaq, the HEat were 18-14. They were 16-8 with Shaq and without Wade. Shaq played with a healthy Heat team with the excepiton of Wade. Wade didn't have J-will for 20+ games, not to mentoin Antwoin, Posey, Payton and even Zo for a couple of games. Shaq played with Eddie Jones, while Wade didn't have EJ AT ALL, and anyone who watched the HEat during their 9 game win streak, which I 'm sure you DIDN't, knows how vital EJ defence was. Most of all Riley took a leave of abscense and didn't come back until Shaq came back. SO, I know you to believ that Wade flopped without SHaq but the facts say otherwise and anyone who watched the HEat throughout the season will tell you the same.

[d-wade2923]

Why do you keep saying that? With Wade and without Shaq, the HEat were 18-14. They were 16-8 with Shaq and without Wade. Shaq played with a healthy Heat team with the excepiton of Wade. Wade didn't have J-will for 20+ games, not to mentoin Antwoin, Posey, Payton and even Zo for a couple of games. Shaq played with Eddie Jones, while Wade didn't have EJ AT ALL, and anyone who watched the HEat during their 9 game win streak, which I 'm sure you DIDN't, knows how vital EJ defence was. Most of all Riley took a leave of abscense and didn't come back until Shaq came back. SO, I know you to believ that Wade flopped without SHaq but the facts say otherwise and anyone who watched the HEat throughout the season will tell you the same.

amen except that antwoin and payton piss me off cause they are old pieces of junk who need to part ways with the heat

[-primetime-]

dude what the HELL are you talking about? Shaq did not do a damn thing against Dallas, in fact every time he went to the bench the Heat went on a run because they were so much better with him out and Mourning in instead.

Wade basically beat the mavs by himself, even the mavs players said it themselves.
link...?

are you trying to tell me that Shaq was a non-factor?

[-primetime-]

Why do you keep saying that? With Wade and without Shaq, the HEat were 18-14. They were 16-8 with Shaq and without Wade. Shaq played with a healthy Heat team with the excepiton of Wade. Wade didn't have J-will for 20+ games, not to mentoin Antwoin, Posey, Payton and even Zo for a couple of games. Shaq played with Eddie Jones, while Wade didn't have EJ AT ALL, and anyone who watched the HEat during their 9 game win streak, which I 'm sure you DIDN't, knows how vital EJ defence was. Most of all Riley took a leave of abscense and didn't come back until Shaq came back. SO, I know you to believ that Wade flopped without SHaq but the facts say otherwise and anyone who watched the HEat throughout the season will tell you the same.
Shaq is the reason they were in the play-offs

I don't care who else was or wasn't injured....without Shaq the Heat would not have made it

stop under-rating Shaq....when he is healthy he is the best center in the NBA

[jackjohnson]

link...?

are you trying to tell me that Shaq was a non-factor?

sorry man i don't have a link for something that happened over a year ago.
yes, i am telling you explicity that shaq did not do a damn thing against dallas and that when he was in the game it was an advantage for dallas.

[Free]

Shaq is the reason they were in the play-offs

I don't care who else was or wasn't injured....without Shaq the Heat would not have made it

stop under-rating Shaq....when he is healthy he is the best center in the NBA


Without Wade they wouldn't have made the playoffs either. No one is underating Shaq, you're just underrating Wade.

[-primetime-]

sorry man i don't have a link for something that happened over a year ago.
yes, i am telling you explicity that shaq did not do a damn thing against dallas and that when he was in the game it was an advantage for dallas.
cannonball claims

shaq had over 21ppg on 66 fg%.....
and even if Shaq didn't score that much it doesn't matter....his presence in the center demands attention that opens things up for Wade

the Mavs were not able to double up on Wade because of Shaq....and that is something that numbers don't show

[jackjohnson]

cannonball claims

and even if Shaq didn't score that much it doesn't matter....his presence in the center demands attention that opens things up for Wade

the Mavs were not able to double up on Wade because of Shaq....and that is something that numbers don't show

the link Cannoball provided was for the ECF. and like I said, wade was doing this all when Shaq was on the bench for long stretches. I know you have a personal thing against wade for whatever reason, but anyone who saw the Finals knows shaq was basically worthless and wade (with some enormous ref help) won the entire Finals for them

[-primetime-]

the link Cannoball provided was for the ECF. and like I said, wade was doing this all when Shaq was on the bench for long stretches. I know you have a personal thing against wade for whatever reason, but anyone who saw the Finals knows shaq was basically worthless and wade (with some enormous ref help) won the entire Finals for them
you are so wrong

anyone who saw the Finals knows that the refs were worthless

[The_Masterplan]

I used to think lebron was overrated but I dont think so anymore. He is the 3rd best player in the game and ripped the "choke" tag from him in the detroit series. Now he just has to learn to perform well against the best (san antonio) particularly in the playoffs. I always remember lebron playing very very well against SA in the regular season. Guess that didnt matter in the finals.

Lebron is a BEAST and is not overrated. Ya, he seems arrogant in his interviews and such but i just think he is just very confident and sure of himself which isnt such a bad characteristic.

[BradMiller52]

cannonball claims

and even if Shaq didn't score that much it doesn't matter....his presence in the center demands attention that opens things up for Wade

the Mavs were not able to double up on Wade because of Shaq....and that is something that numbers don't show


Shaq was so awful defensively in that series that the Heat would go on runs whenever he was our. And I remember the Mavs players(Nowitzki IIRC) DID say Wade beat them all by himself.

[YAWN]

I used to think lebron was overrated but I dont think so anymore. He is the 3rd best player in the game and ripped the "choke" tag from him in the detroit series. Now he just has to learn to perform well against the best (san antonio) particularly in the playoffs. I always remember lebron playing very very well against SA in the regular season. Guess that didnt matter in the finals.

Lebron is a BEAST and is not overrated. Ya, he seems arrogant in his interviews and such but i just think he is just very confident and sure of himself which isnt such a bad characteristic.

The media and everyone growing up has always glorified him and made him think hes perfect therefore hes confident. What he needs is someone to sit him down and say "your jumpshot sucks. fix it." And then he needs to actually focus on improving that part of his game instead of dressing up like mchammer and parading around the stage like an idiot for some ****ty awards show.

And to top it off he needs to read "How to not be an arrogant prick; for dummies."

[The_Masterplan]

what does IIRC mean? Thanks.

There is no use arguing about primetime about last years mavs/heat series. I dont have a problem with it but he wont change his mind about it. I still think shaq helped a lot with wade and i still think the refs did screw the mavs over somewhat.

That's why there is no use arguing with me about it either. The mavs were the better team in that series and thats a fact to me.

[BradMiller52]

what does IIRC mean? Thanks.

There is no use arguing about primetime about last years mavs/heat series. I dont have a problem with it but he wont change his mind about it. I still think shaq helped a lot with wade and i still think the refs did screw the mavs over somewhat.

That's why there is no use arguing with me about it either. The mavs were the better team in that series and thats a fact to me.


IIRC=If I remember correctly

And yeah I agree the Mavs were the more talented team and that the refs did screw them over a bit. I was rooting for the Pistons and the Heat beat them, so I rooted against Miami at the time. I was pissed as hell when Miami beat the Mavs but now that I look back on it I realize that Dwyane Wade(even when you factor in the few phantom fouls he got) was amazing.

[jo3y91]

You do realize that "foul shooter in a wheel-chair" single-handedly squashed your team in the 2006 NBA Finals right?

Oh and Wade was the one who carried Shaq.....NOT the other way around.

Wade > LeBron > Dirk
reading that comment, i am now 10% stupider. with a fckn test 2morrow THANX!

[Poseidon]

reading that comment, i am now 10% stupider. with a fckn test 2morrow THANX!

You were already stupid to begin with....so I doubt my comment really added to your idiocy.

[-primetime-]

what does IIRC mean? Thanks.

There is no use arguing about primetime about last years mavs/heat series. I dont have a problem with it but he wont change his mind about it. I still think shaq helped a lot with wade and i still think the refs did screw the mavs over somewhat.

That's why there is no use arguing with me about it either. The mavs were the better team in that series and thats a fact to me.
now that I think about....this is 100% true

the only thing you are gonna get out of me is a reminder of how bad those refs where...

[silencespeak]

lebron isn't clutch. imo, to be in the top 5 in the nba you need to be clutch. d-wade falls into that category, as does nash, kobe, duncan, whoever else you want to name.

[-primetime-]

lebron isn't clutch. imo, to be in the top 5 in the nba you need to be clutch. d-wade falls into that category, as does nash, kobe, duncan, whoever else you want to name.
Wade and Kobe are more clutch than Lebron?

they both went out in the first round...

Nash didn't make it as far as Lebron either....but I will cut him some slack for playing against the champs with a bad ref

[d-wade2923]

Wade and Kobe are more clutch than Lebron?

they both went out in the first round...

Nash didn't make it as far as Lebron either....but I will cut him some slack for playing against the champs with a bad ref

wade played the bulls in the 1st round. kobe played the spurs in the 1st round. lebron played the wizards in the first round w/o their two best players. So that is why wade and kobe didnt get past the 1st round and lebron did. Not to mention the fact that wade had a shoulder injury and knee tendonitis and his team (yes shaq included) were sleeping every game. You are probably the only person Ive ever heard that believes that lebron is more clutch than both kobe and wade. In the last 5 min. of a game, when the game is close you kno that wade and kobe are going to take over unlike lebron who hardly ever comes through late in the 4th.

[Richie2k6]

Primetime, I'm not going to make a massive post purely taking shots at you, I've done enough of that, and I'm behind that. Though I will make a massive post about why I believe Dwyane Wade is better than Lebron James.

You seem to think that the reason the Heat won that championship was not because of Wade's domination against the Mavericks, but because of the almighty 18/8 Shaq. Besides around 18 points, 7 or 8 boards, a couple of blocks, Shaq is just a massive presence in the post with leadership capabilities and playoff experience. I'm not implying that Shaq was useless in the series, he wasn't. I'm implying that you're overrating his valubility. I'm say it loud and clear, right now - Dwyane Wade dominated the Dallas Mavericks almost by himself. Besides the obvious team help with other people scoring and rebounding and what not, that's common sense of course, Wade pretty much did it himself. He scored, he assisted, he blocked, he stole, he rebounded, he dominated. Averaging 37PPG in the Finals wasn't because Shaq was there - it was because Dwyane Wade flat out smashed the Dallas Mavericks from Game 3 and on. That's something Lebron is yet to do.

In the entire Heat Finals series, Shaq wasn't spectacular. He averaged a grand total if 13.6PPG and 10.1RPG. Less than phenomenal. Besides 13/10 and a 300lbs presence and Finals experience, he wasn't extremely useful. He was in foul trouble in every game except 2 and 3. He played only 27 minutes in game 2, resulting in 5 points. He played only 29 minutes in game 4, and he played 30 minutes in game 6 resulting in 9 points. Dwyane Wade? I shouldn't even have to explain what he did in every game. He was beyond amazing for the whole series.

Lebron James, in the Finals, shot 34% while averaging almost 6 turnovers. Talk about showing up in the Finals. And there's really no excuse for it. You can't say Bowen locked him down, because he didn't. Lebron decided to shoot jumpshots when he could have plowed his way into the lane and scored, so it was his own fault. Hish highest shooting percentage output was 42% in game 2. His worst? 25% in game one. Oh, and we can't forget, he got swept. I just had to put that out there, because it matters.

As for Dwyane Wade getting swept against the Bulls, he had dislocated his shoulder prior to the series and wasn't even 100%, so really, it wasn't his fault. The Heat were lucky he even decided to play instead of taking surgery immediately. So enough with the "wheelchair" stuff, it's immature. He got swept by the Bulls because he wasn't 100%. You could tell by his numbers and percentages. His FG% went down because he couldn't attack the rim as much like he always did without risk of injuring himself even further. Before he got injured he was averaging 28/5/7 on 50% shooting.

Now as for actual comparison of the two, let's break it down. Lebron James averaged 27.3PPG on .476% shooting. Dwyane Wade averaged 28.9PPG on .491% shooting, all the while even averaging less shot attempts then Lebron.

Lebron James' eFG%: .493%
Dwyane Wade's eFG%: .491

Lebron James' TS%: .543%
Dwyane Wade's TS%: .566%

Lebron James' FT%: .733%
Dwyane Wade's FT%: .777%

Lebron James' 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 24.5
Dwyane Wade's 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 28.9

Lebron James' Career APG: 6.4
Dwyane Wade's Career APG: 6.4

Lebron James' Career BPG: 0.7
Dwyane Wade's Career BPG: 0.9

Dwyane Wade does all that in less minutes per game than Lebron. (41 to 37). He shoots a higher percentage, even as a guard, while Lebron shoots a worse percentage as a forward. Lebron averages more rebounds simply because of size and strength, but what's even more amazing is the fact that Dwyane Wade is a better blocker AND stealer than Lebron. Dwyane Wade was an All-Defensive team selection once. Lebron James was an All-Defensive team selection never.

Passing wise, it's pretty even, but I give the slight edge to Wade because of the fact that he's a guard and is an extremely, extremely good decision-maker. Watching many Heat games I've heard commentators say he's the second best decision maker in the league behind Steve Nash. Other than Nash, Wade is a keen and spectacular decision maker. Lebron? Not exactly the most clutch player in the league.

Add on the fact that Wade usually beats the Cavaliers (I'm pretty sure) and has a history of ripping them to shreds. Remember last year when the Cavaliers were facing the Heat? I do. I remember in the fourth quarter, Wade was the point guard and they continued to run the same isolation play at the top of the key for him over and over and over again. Nobody could stop him. He kept scoring at will and kept getting to the line at will. He led the league in 4th quarter PPG averages last year. He's a 4th quarter and clutch player, and any coach would want their point guard/shooting guard to be clutch, which Lebron isn't exactly.

Then we get to the fact that Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will. He attacks the rim more than any player in the league - Kobe, Iverson, Lebron, you name it. Wade slashes more than anybody and he relentlessly attacks the basket more than anybody, which is why his FG% is so high. Common sense - the closer you shoot the ball to the basket, the more likely it is to go in. Lebron decides to pull up for fade aways like Kobe Bryant and fails miserably, which is why his FG% isn't quite as high as Wade's. Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will because he knows how to create contact. You keep bringing up the phantom fouls in the Finals. Okay, so fouls were called a couple of times when they shouldn't have. Why are you hating on Wade? Did HE blow the whistle? Did he pay the refs to blow it? No. It's the referees' fault they're blind as bats and called a few stupid calls in the Finals. Stop blaming Wade and calling him D-Whistle or saying he's a David Stern mama's boy. It's not his fault there were a few stupid fouls - it's the blind refs.

Back to the fact that he can get to the line at will. He proved it when he set the new free throw attempts record. Now you're going to start saying he's a cheater or something, right? Wrong. Again, it was the refs fault, that's obvious. But other than that, watching games of Wade you would realize that he is a master at creating contact. He attacks the rim so much he gets to the line so much. The most you attack the rim, the more free throws you'll get, simple as that. He creates contact at will and is even a goot free throw shooter. (.777%).

As for shooting, I really don't know who to pick. Wade has the higher FG% and FT%, but Lebron has the higher 3PT%. But Wade has money spots where his mid-range shot almost always goes it, and Lebron doesn't really have a consistent shot at all. Wade's mid range shot is coming along nicely since his rookie season, and so is Lebron's, just not quite as well. Lebron's 3PT% is higher because he attempts more 3's. The more you attempt, the more likely you are to get one in. Wade scored more three pointers in the playoffs alone than he did in the entire regular season last year - that's proof that his 3PT shot is coming along nicely and that it will be solid one day. He just simply doesn't attempt them, because he knows attacking the rim is more efficient. Coaches want their guards to slash and get to the line and attack the rim, not shoot 30 footers, for the most part. Wade knows slashing is more efficient than 3PTing, therefore he does that more. Like Carmelo Anthony. He shot 50% from 3 land in the Playoffs against the Spurs. Yet he still doesn't jack'em up like Arenas. Why? Because he knows attacking the rim beats 3 point shooting. You're more likely to score, and much much more likely to get to the line. Carmelo's 3PTer is pretty good, but he doesn't do it much, like Wade, because his game is built around attacking the rim.

-----------------------------------

So there, I've stated reasons why a lot of coaches would rather have a clutch guard that can get to the line, score, block, steal, assist, lead, be clutch, and play defense instead of a forward who settles for jumpshots a bit more than he should and shoots a lower percentage and isn't as clutch. I've always thought people say Wade is overrated because of the "D-Whistle" crap and the fact that he got injured. In the basketball society today, apparently, if you get injured, you suddenly suck. :ohwell: Doesn't make sense at all. As for the Finals, primetime, get over it, seriously, please. You can't change the past. What happens happens, the phantom calls, whatever. Just please stop whining about it. Your Mavericks still have a good chance at the title next year - move on.

Starting a franchise and near a superstar? I'd probably pick Lebron, simply becaue he doesn't get injured as much and is more valuable, not because he is better, which I don't think he is. Valubility and skill are two different things. But if it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals, give me Dwyane Wade in a heartbeat instantly.

In the end, I pick Dwyane Wade over Lebron James.

[d-wade2923]

Primetime, I'm not going to make a massive post purely taking shots at you, I've done enough of that, and I'm behind that. Though I will make a massive post about why I believe Dwyane Wade is better than Lebron James.

You seem to think that the reason the Heat won that championship was not because of Wade's domination against the Mavericks, but because of the almighty 18/8 Shaq. Besides around 18 points, 7 or 8 boards, a couple of blocks, Shaq is just a massive presence in the post with leadership capabilities and playoff experience. I'm not implying that Shaq was useless in the series, he wasn't. I'm implying that you're overrating his valubility. I'm say it loud and clear, right now - Dwyane Wade dominated the Dallas Mavericks almost by himself. Besides the obvious team help with other people scoring and rebounding and what not, that's common sense of course, Wade pretty much did it himself. He scored, he assisted, he blocked, he stole, he rebounded, he dominated. Averaging 37PPG in the Finals wasn't because Shaq was there - it was because Dwyane Wade flat out smashed the Dallas Mavericks from Game 3 and on. That's something Lebron is yet to do.

In the entire Heat Finals series, Shaq wasn't spectacular. He averaged a grand total if 13.6PPG and 10.1RPG. Less than phenomenal. Besides 13/10 and a 300lbs presence and Finals experience, he wasn't extremely useful. He was in foul trouble in every game except 2 and 3. He played only 27 minutes in game 2, resulting in 5 points. He played only 29 minutes in game 4, and he played 30 minutes in game 6 resulting in 9 points. Dwyane Wade? I shouldn't even have to explain what he did in every game. He was beyond amazing for the whole series.

Lebron James, in the Finals, shot 34% while averaging almost 6 turnovers. Talk about showing up in the Finals. And there's really no excuse for it. You can't say Bowen locked him down, because he didn't. Lebron decided to shoot jumpshots when he could have plowed his way into the lane and scored, so it was his own fault. Hish highest shooting percentage output was 42% in game 2. His worst? 25% in game one. Oh, and we can't forget, he got swept. I just had to put that out there, because it matters.

As for Dwyane Wade getting swept against the Bulls, he had dislocated his shoulder prior to the series and wasn't even 100%, so really, it wasn't his fault. The Heat were lucky he even decided to play instead of taking surgery immediately. So enough with the "wheelchair" stuff, it's immature. He got swept by the Bulls because he wasn't 100%. You could tell by his numbers and percentages. His FG% went down because he couldn't attack the rim as much like he always did without risk of injuring himself even further. Before he got injured he was averaging 28/5/7 on 50% shooting.

Now as for actual comparison of the two, let's break it down. Lebron James averaged 27.3PPG on .476% shooting. Dwyane Wade averaged 28.9PPG on .491% shooting, all the while even averaging less shot attempts then Lebron.

Lebron James' eFG%: .493%
Dwyane Wade's eFG%: .491

Lebron James' TS%: .543%
Dwyane Wade's TS%: .566%

Lebron James' FT%: .733%
Dwyane Wade's FT%: .777%

Lebron James' 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 24.5
Dwyane Wade's 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 28.9

Lebron James' Career APG: 6.4
Dwyane Wade's Career APG: 6.4

Lebron James' Career BPG: 0.7
Dwyane Wade's Career BPG: 0.9

Dwyane Wade does all that in less minutes per game than Lebron. (41 to 37). He shoots a higher percentage, even as a guard, while Lebron shoots a worse percentage as a forward. Lebron averages more rebounds simply because of size and strength, but what's even more amazing is the fact that Dwyane Wade is a better blocker AND stealer than Lebron. Dwyane Wade was an All-Defensive team selection once. Lebron James was an All-Defensive team selection never.

Passing wise, it's pretty even, but I give the slight edge to Wade because of the fact that he's a guard and is an extremely, extremely good decision-maker. Watching many Heat games I've heard commentators say he's the second best decision maker in the league behind Steve Nash. Other than Nash, Wade is a keen and spectacular decision maker. Lebron? Not exactly the most clutch player in the league.

Add on the fact that Wade usually beats the Cavaliers (I'm pretty sure) and has a history of ripping them to shreds. Remember last year when the Cavaliers were facing the Heat? I do. I remember in the fourth quarter, Wade was the point guard and they continued to run the same isolation play at the top of the key for him over and over and over again. Nobody could stop him. He kept scoring at will and kept getting to the line at will. He led the league in 4th quarter PPG averages last year. He's a 4th quarter and clutch player, and any coach would want their point guard/shooting guard to be clutch, which Lebron isn't exactly.

Then we get to the fact that Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will. He attacks the rim more than any player in the league - Kobe, Iverson, Lebron, you name it. Wade slashes more than anybody and he relentlessly attacks the basket more than anybody, which is why his FG% is so high. Common sense - the closer you shoot the ball to the basket, the more likely it is to go in. Lebron decides to pull up for fade aways like Kobe Bryant and fails miserably, which is why his FG% isn't quite as high as Wade's. Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will because he knows how to create contact. You keep bringing up the phantom fouls in the Finals. Okay, so fouls were called a couple of times when they shouldn't have. Why are you hating on Wade? Did HE blow the whistle? Did he pay the refs to blow it? No. It's the referees' fault they're blind as bats and called a few stupid calls in the Finals. Stop blaming Wade and calling him D-Whistle or saying he's a David Stern mama's boy. It's not his fault there were a few stupid fouls - it's the blind refs.

Back to the fact that he can get to the line at will. He proved it when he set the new free throw attempts record. Now you're going to start saying he's a cheater or something, right? Wrong. Again, it was the refs fault, that's obvious. But other than that, watching games of Wade you would realize that he is a master at creating contact. He attacks the rim so much he gets to the line so much. The most you attack the rim, the more free throws you'll get, simple as that. He creates contact at will and is even a goot free throw shooter. (.777%).

As for shooting, I really don't know who to pick. Wade has the higher FG% and FT%, but Lebron has the higher 3PT%. But Wade has money spots where his mid-range shot almost always goes it, and Lebron doesn't really have a consistent shot at all. Wade's mid range shot is coming along nicely since his rookie season, and so is Lebron's, just not quite as well. Lebron's 3PT% is higher because he attempts more 3's. The more you attempt, the more likely you are to get one in. Wade scored more three pointers in the playoffs alone than he did in the entire regular season last year - that's proof that his 3PT shot is coming along nicely and that it will be solid one day. He just simply doesn't attempt them, because he knows attacking the rim is more efficient. Coaches want their guards to slash and get to the line and attack the rim, not shoot 30 footers, for the most part. Wade knows slashing is more efficient than 3PTing, therefore he does that more. Like Carmelo Anthony. He shot 50% from 3 land in the Playoffs against the Spurs. Yet he still doesn't jack'em up like Arenas. Why? Because he knows attacking the rim beats 3 point shooting. You're more likely to score, and much much more likely to get to the line. Carmelo's 3PTer is pretty good, but he doesn't do it much, like Wade, because his game is built around attacking the rim.

-----------------------------------

So there, I've stated reasons why a lot of coaches would rather have a clutch guard that can get to the line, score, block, steal, assist, lead, be clutch, and play defense instead of a forward who settles for jumpshots a bit more than he should and shoots a lower percentage and isn't as clutch. I've always thought people say Wade is overrated because of the "D-Whistle" crap and the fact that he got injured. In the basketball society today, apparently, if you get injured, you suddenly suck. :ohwell: Doesn't make sense at all. As for the Finals, primetime, get over it, seriously, please. You can't change the past. What happens happens, the phantom calls, whatever. Just please stop whining about it. Your Mavericks still have a good chance at the title next year - move on.

Starting a franchise and near a superstar? I'd probably pick Lebron, simply becaue he doesn't get injured as much and is more valuable, not because he is better, which I don't think he is. Valubility and skill are two different things. But if it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals, give me Dwyane Wade in a heartbeat instantly.

In the end, I pick Dwyane Wade over Lebron James.

wow this cannot be the same guy who a little while ago was bashing wade and saying that he had a ton of support from gary payton and shaq in the 2006 finals. A complete change of heart from b4. I applaud u for seeing the light:applause:

[Richie2k6]

wow this cannot be the same guy who a little while ago was bashing wade and saying that he had a ton of support from gary payton and shaq in the 2006 finals. A complete change of heart from b4. I applaud u for seeing the light:applause:
I'm pretty sure I was referring to the regular season. I know in the Finals it was pretty much all him.

[picc84]

Primetime, I'm not going to make a massive post purely taking shots at you, I've done enough of that, and I'm behind that. Though I will make a massive post about why I believe Dwyane Wade is better than Lebron James.

You seem to think that the reason the Heat won that championship was not because of Wade's domination against the Mavericks, but because of the almighty 18/8 Shaq. Besides around 18 points, 7 or 8 boards, a couple of blocks, Shaq is just a massive presence in the post with leadership capabilities and playoff experience. I'm not implying that Shaq was useless in the series, he wasn't. I'm implying that you're overrating his valubility. I'm say it loud and clear, right now - Dwyane Wade dominated the Dallas Mavericks almost by himself. Besides the obvious team help with other people scoring and rebounding and what not, that's common sense of course, Wade pretty much did it himself. He scored, he assisted, he blocked, he stole, he rebounded, he dominated. Averaging 37PPG in the Finals wasn't because Shaq was there - it was because Dwyane Wade flat out smashed the Dallas Mavericks from Game 3 and on. That's something Lebron is yet to do.

In the entire Heat Finals series, Shaq wasn't spectacular. He averaged a grand total if 13.6PPG and 10.1RPG. Less than phenomenal. Besides 13/10 and a 300lbs presence and Finals experience, he wasn't extremely useful. He was in foul trouble in every game except 2 and 3. He played only 27 minutes in game 2, resulting in 5 points. He played only 29 minutes in game 4, and he played 30 minutes in game 6 resulting in 9 points. Dwyane Wade? I shouldn't even have to explain what he did in every game. He was beyond amazing for the whole series.

Lebron James, in the Finals, shot 34% while averaging almost 6 turnovers. Talk about showing up in the Finals. And there's really no excuse for it. You can't say Bowen locked him down, because he didn't. Lebron decided to shoot jumpshots when he could have plowed his way into the lane and scored, so it was his own fault. Hish highest shooting percentage output was 42% in game 2. His worst? 25% in game one. Oh, and we can't forget, he got swept. I just had to put that out there, because it matters.

As for Dwyane Wade getting swept against the Bulls, he had dislocated his shoulder prior to the series and wasn't even 100%, so really, it wasn't his fault. The Heat were lucky he even decided to play instead of taking surgery immediately. So enough with the "wheelchair" stuff, it's immature. He got swept by the Bulls because he wasn't 100%. You could tell by his numbers and percentages. His FG% went down because he couldn't attack the rim as much like he always did without risk of injuring himself even further. Before he got injured he was averaging 28/5/7 on 50% shooting.

Now as for actual comparison of the two, let's break it down. Lebron James averaged 27.3PPG on .476% shooting. Dwyane Wade averaged 28.9PPG on .491% shooting, all the while even averaging less shot attempts then Lebron.

Lebron James' eFG%: .493%
Dwyane Wade's eFG%: .491

Lebron James' TS%: .543%
Dwyane Wade's TS%: .566%

Lebron James' FT%: .733%
Dwyane Wade's FT%: .777%

Lebron James' 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 24.5
Dwyane Wade's 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 28.9

Lebron James' Career APG: 6.4
Dwyane Wade's Career APG: 6.4

Lebron James' Career BPG: 0.7
Dwyane Wade's Career BPG: 0.9

Dwyane Wade does all that in less minutes per game than Lebron. (41 to 37). He shoots a higher percentage, even as a guard, while Lebron shoots a worse percentage as a forward. Lebron averages more rebounds simply because of size and strength, but what's even more amazing is the fact that Dwyane Wade is a better blocker AND stealer than Lebron. Dwyane Wade was an All-Defensive team selection once. Lebron James was an All-Defensive team selection never.

Passing wise, it's pretty even, but I give the slight edge to Wade because of the fact that he's a guard and is an extremely, extremely good decision-maker. Watching many Heat games I've heard commentators say he's the second best decision maker in the league behind Steve Nash. Other than Nash, Wade is a keen and spectacular decision maker. Lebron? Not exactly the most clutch player in the league.

Add on the fact that Wade usually beats the Cavaliers (I'm pretty sure) and has a history of ripping them to shreds. Remember last year when the Cavaliers were facing the Heat? I do. I remember in the fourth quarter, Wade was the point guard and they continued to run the same isolation play at the top of the key for him over and over and over again. Nobody could stop him. He kept scoring at will and kept getting to the line at will. He led the league in 4th quarter PPG averages last year. He's a 4th quarter and clutch player, and any coach would want their point guard/shooting guard to be clutch, which Lebron isn't exactly.

Then we get to the fact that Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will. He attacks the rim more than any player in the league - Kobe, Iverson, Lebron, you name it. Wade slashes more than anybody and he relentlessly attacks the basket more than anybody, which is why his FG% is so high. Common sense - the closer you shoot the ball to the basket, the more likely it is to go in. Lebron decides to pull up for fade aways like Kobe Bryant and fails miserably, which is why his FG% isn't quite as high as Wade's. Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will because he knows how to create contact. You keep bringing up the phantom fouls in the Finals. Okay, so fouls were called a couple of times when they shouldn't have. Why are you hating on Wade? Did HE blow the whistle? Did he pay the refs to blow it? No. It's the referees' fault they're blind as bats and called a few stupid calls in the Finals. Stop blaming Wade and calling him D-Whistle or saying he's a David Stern mama's boy. It's not his fault there were a few stupid fouls - it's the blind refs.

Back to the fact that he can get to the line at will. He proved it when he set the new free throw attempts record. Now you're going to start saying he's a cheater or something, right? Wrong. Again, it was the refs fault, that's obvious. But other than that, watching games of Wade you would realize that he is a master at creating contact. He attacks the rim so much he gets to the line so much. The most you attack the rim, the more free throws you'll get, simple as that. He creates contact at will and is even a goot free throw shooter. (.777%).

As for shooting, I really don't know who to pick. Wade has the higher FG% and FT%, but Lebron has the higher 3PT%. But Wade has money spots where his mid-range shot almost always goes it, and Lebron doesn't really have a consistent shot at all. Wade's mid range shot is coming along nicely since his rookie season, and so is Lebron's, just not quite as well. Lebron's 3PT% is higher because he attempts more 3's. The more you attempt, the more likely you are to get one in. Wade scored more three pointers in the playoffs alone than he did in the entire regular season last year - that's proof that his 3PT shot is coming along nicely and that it will be solid one day. He just simply doesn't attempt them, because he knows attacking the rim is more efficient. Coaches want their guards to slash and get to the line and attack the rim, not shoot 30 footers, for the most part. Wade knows slashing is more efficient than 3PTing, therefore he does that more. Like Carmelo Anthony. He shot 50% from 3 land in the Playoffs against the Spurs. Yet he still doesn't jack'em up like Arenas. Why? Because he knows attacking the rim beats 3 point shooting. You're more likely to score, and much much more likely to get to the line. Carmelo's 3PTer is pretty good, but he doesn't do it much, like Wade, because his game is built around attacking the rim.

-----------------------------------

So there, I've stated reasons why a lot of coaches would rather have a clutch guard that can get to the line, score, block, steal, assist, lead, be clutch, and play defense instead of a forward who settles for jumpshots a bit more than he should and shoots a lower percentage and isn't as clutch. I've always thought people say Wade is overrated because of the "D-Whistle" crap and the fact that he got injured. In the basketball society today, apparently, if you get injured, you suddenly suck. :ohwell: Doesn't make sense at all. As for the Finals, primetime, get over it, seriously, please. You can't change the past. What happens happens, the phantom calls, whatever. Just please stop whining about it. Your Mavericks still have a good chance at the title next year - move on.

Starting a franchise and near a superstar? I'd probably pick Lebron, simply becaue he doesn't get injured as much and is more valuable, not because he is better, which I don't think he is. Valubility and skill are two different things. But if it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals, give me Dwyane Wade in a heartbeat instantly.

In the end, I pick Dwyane Wade over Lebron James.

I agree with almost everything you said here. Only exceptions are:

1. Wade's injury didnt seem to be affecting him at all in the Heat series, especially not on those flying, leaping blocks and rebounds, and tomahawk dunks he was doing. If the shoulder, to his weak arm, was affecting him, it did so minimally.
2. He is somewhat to be blamed for the refs in the finals, a little, because he began flopping egregiously in response.

Besides those, cosign everything. I take Wade over Lebron easily these days, but would start a franchise with Bron simply because I think he has more upside/potential. Wade's jumper is money, as are his driving skills, passing, and help defense. When Lebron learns how to shoot and plays better defense, things will change.

[Uchiha_Hai]

Primetime, I'm not going to make a massive post purely taking shots at you, I've done enough of that, and I'm behind that. Though I will make a massive post about why I believe Dwyane Wade is better than Lebron James.

You seem to think that the reason the Heat won that championship was not because of Wade's domination against the Mavericks, but because of the almighty 18/8 Shaq. Besides around 18 points, 7 or 8 boards, a couple of blocks, Shaq is just a massive presence in the post with leadership capabilities and playoff experience. I'm not implying that Shaq was useless in the series, he wasn't. I'm implying that you're overrating his valubility. I'm say it loud and clear, right now - Dwyane Wade dominated the Dallas Mavericks almost by himself. Besides the obvious team help with other people scoring and rebounding and what not, that's common sense of course, Wade pretty much did it himself. He scored, he assisted, he blocked, he stole, he rebounded, he dominated. Averaging 37PPG in the Finals wasn't because Shaq was there - it was because Dwyane Wade flat out smashed the Dallas Mavericks from Game 3 and on. That's something Lebron is yet to do.

In the entire Heat Finals series, Shaq wasn't spectacular. He averaged a grand total if 13.6PPG and 10.1RPG. Less than phenomenal. Besides 13/10 and a 300lbs presence and Finals experience, he wasn't extremely useful. He was in foul trouble in every game except 2 and 3. He played only 27 minutes in game 2, resulting in 5 points. He played only 29 minutes in game 4, and he played 30 minutes in game 6 resulting in 9 points. Dwyane Wade? I shouldn't even have to explain what he did in every game. He was beyond amazing for the whole series.

Lebron James, in the Finals, shot 34% while averaging almost 6 turnovers. Talk about showing up in the Finals. And there's really no excuse for it. You can't say Bowen locked him down, because he didn't. Lebron decided to shoot jumpshots when he could have plowed his way into the lane and scored, so it was his own fault. Hish highest shooting percentage output was 42% in game 2. His worst? 25% in game one. Oh, and we can't forget, he got swept. I just had to put that out there, because it matters.

As for Dwyane Wade getting swept against the Bulls, he had dislocated his shoulder prior to the series and wasn't even 100%, so really, it wasn't his fault. The Heat were lucky he even decided to play instead of taking surgery immediately. So enough with the "wheelchair" stuff, it's immature. He got swept by the Bulls because he wasn't 100%. You could tell by his numbers and percentages. His FG% went down because he couldn't attack the rim as much like he always did without risk of injuring himself even further. Before he got injured he was averaging 28/5/7 on 50% shooting.

Now as for actual comparison of the two, let's break it down. Lebron James averaged 27.3PPG on .476% shooting. Dwyane Wade averaged 28.9PPG on .491% shooting, all the while even averaging less shot attempts then Lebron.

Lebron James' eFG%: .493%
Dwyane Wade's eFG%: .491

Lebron James' TS%: .543%
Dwyane Wade's TS%: .566%

Lebron James' FT%: .733%
Dwyane Wade's FT%: .777%

Lebron James' 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 24.5
Dwyane Wade's 06-07 Efficiency Rating: 28.9

Lebron James' Career APG: 6.4
Dwyane Wade's Career APG: 6.4

Lebron James' Career BPG: 0.7
Dwyane Wade's Career BPG: 0.9

Dwyane Wade does all that in less minutes per game than Lebron. (41 to 37). He shoots a higher percentage, even as a guard, while Lebron shoots a worse percentage as a forward. Lebron averages more rebounds simply because of size and strength, but what's even more amazing is the fact that Dwyane Wade is a better blocker AND stealer than Lebron. Dwyane Wade was an All-Defensive team selection once. Lebron James was an All-Defensive team selection never.

Passing wise, it's pretty even, but I give the slight edge to Wade because of the fact that he's a guard and is an extremely, extremely good decision-maker. Watching many Heat games I've heard commentators say he's the second best decision maker in the league behind Steve Nash. Other than Nash, Wade is a keen and spectacular decision maker. Lebron? Not exactly the most clutch player in the league.

Add on the fact that Wade usually beats the Cavaliers (I'm pretty sure) and has a history of ripping them to shreds. Remember last year when the Cavaliers were facing the Heat? I do. I remember in the fourth quarter, Wade was the point guard and they continued to run the same isolation play at the top of the key for him over and over and over again. Nobody could stop him. He kept scoring at will and kept getting to the line at will. He led the league in 4th quarter PPG averages last year. He's a 4th quarter and clutch player, and any coach would want their point guard/shooting guard to be clutch, which Lebron isn't exactly.

Then we get to the fact that Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will. He attacks the rim more than any player in the league - Kobe, Iverson, Lebron, you name it. Wade slashes more than anybody and he relentlessly attacks the basket more than anybody, which is why his FG% is so high. Common sense - the closer you shoot the ball to the basket, the more likely it is to go in. Lebron decides to pull up for fade aways like Kobe Bryant and fails miserably, which is why his FG% isn't quite as high as Wade's. Dwyane Wade can get to the line at will because he knows how to create contact. You keep bringing up the phantom fouls in the Finals. Okay, so fouls were called a couple of times when they shouldn't have. Why are you hating on Wade? Did HE blow the whistle? Did he pay the refs to blow it? No. It's the referees' fault they're blind as bats and called a few stupid calls in the Finals. Stop blaming Wade and calling him D-Whistle or saying he's a David Stern mama's boy. It's not his fault there were a few stupid fouls - it's the blind refs.

Back to the fact that he can get to the line at will. He proved it when he set the new free throw attempts record. Now you're going to start saying he's a cheater or something, right? Wrong. Again, it was the refs fault, that's obvious. But other than that, watching games of Wade you would realize that he is a master at creating contact. He attacks the rim so much he gets to the line so much. The most you attack the rim, the more free throws you'll get, simple as that. He creates contact at will and is even a goot free throw shooter. (.777%).

As for shooting, I really don't know who to pick. Wade has the higher FG% and FT%, but Lebron has the higher 3PT%. But Wade has money spots where his mid-range shot almost always goes it, and Lebron doesn't really have a consistent shot at all. Wade's mid range shot is coming along nicely since his rookie season, and so is Lebron's, just not quite as well. Lebron's 3PT% is higher because he attempts more 3's. The more you attempt, the more likely you are to get one in. Wade scored more three pointers in the playoffs alone than he did in the entire regular season last year - that's proof that his 3PT shot is coming along nicely and that it will be solid one day. He just simply doesn't attempt them, because he knows attacking the rim is more efficient. Coaches want their guards to slash and get to the line and attack the rim, not shoot 30 footers, for the most part. Wade knows slashing is more efficient than 3PTing, therefore he does that more. Like Carmelo Anthony. He shot 50% from 3 land in the Playoffs against the Spurs. Yet he still doesn't jack'em up like Arenas. Why? Because he knows attacking the rim beats 3 point shooting. You're more likely to score, and much much more likely to get to the line. Carmelo's 3PTer is pretty good, but he doesn't do it much, like Wade, because his game is built around attacking the rim.

-----------------------------------

So there, I've stated reasons why a lot of coaches would rather have a clutch guard that can get to the line, score, block, steal, assist, lead, be clutch, and play defense instead of a forward who settles for jumpshots a bit more than he should and shoots a lower percentage and isn't as clutch. I've always thought people say Wade is overrated because of the "D-Whistle" crap and the fact that he got injured. In the basketball society today, apparently, if you get injured, you suddenly suck. :ohwell: Doesn't make sense at all. As for the Finals, primetime, get over it, seriously, please. You can't change the past. What happens happens, the phantom calls, whatever. Just please stop whining about it. Your Mavericks still have a good chance at the title next year - move on.

Starting a franchise and near a superstar? I'd probably pick Lebron, simply becaue he doesn't get injured as much and is more valuable, not because he is better, which I don't think he is. Valubility and skill are two different things. But if it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals, give me Dwyane Wade in a heartbeat instantly.

In the end, I pick Dwyane Wade over Lebron James.


Ahhh damn I actually read it all. I agree with everything you said and especially the part about Lebron trying to shoot fade-aways like Kobe and failing miserably.

Lebron is overrated. Like Wade, he does get some silly calls for him but the difference is Wade does it on his own and wins when it counts. Lebron chokes.

[letsdothis]

I think both Lebron and Wade is a bit overrated, but Lebron will be considered a better player in the end. My opinion.

[mongePR(kb24)]

can lebron do a 360 dunk?

[Cannonball]

Oh my. I would counter your argument richie but its to much work because nothing is gonna change. You will still continue to say Wade is better and I will say LeBron is better.

No one changes there opinions and it is a waste of time to argue about things that can not be proven.

[t-mac#1]

10 years from now we see how overated LBJ is when he will be in the same light as some of the greatest players ever to play and has won like 3 championships.

[t-mac#1]

10 years from now we see how overated LBJ is when he will be in the same light as some of the greatest players ever to play and has won like 3 championships.

[-primetime-]

Starting a franchise and near a superstar? I'd probably pick Lebron, simply becaue he doesn't get injured as much and is more valuable, not because he is better, which I don't think he is. Valubility and skill are two different things. But if it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals, give me Dwyane Wade in a heartbeat instantly.

nice post...

I can see your angle and understand why you would have Wade over Lebron

you did however, fail to mention the refs

and once again you make Shaq presence seem as though it didn't matter...

when it is all said and done between us we both agree that lebron is the more valuble player...and that is more of my point...I would rather have a bigger, taller, younger star than an injury prone star that has slightly (very slightly) better numbers...

[Richie2k6]

nice post...

I can see your angle and understand why you would have Wade over Lebron
I applaud you for finally realizing it.

you did however, fail to mention the refs
I did talk about how the refs affected the Finals.


and once again you make Shaq presence seem as though it didn't matter...
I never said she wasn't useful AT ALL, I just said he wasn't as useful as you're making him out to be.

[d-wade2923]

Oh my. I would counter your argument richie but its to much work because nothing is gonna change. You will still continue to say Wade is better and I will say LeBron is better.

No one changes there opinions and it is a waste of time to argue about things that can not be proven.

good point...I just dont get how richie can say that he thinks wade is better than lebron but at the same time he would take lebron when hes starting a team

[Richie2k6]

good point...I just dont get how richie can say that he thinks wade is better than lebron but at the same time he would take lebron when hes starting a team
I said simply because of the fact that Lebron gets injured less. Again, skill and valubility are two different things. Everybody knows Steve Nash is better than Dwight Howard. But when you're starting a franchise, you obviously pick Howard, because he's young and has a hughe upside, while Nash is 34 and on the very edge of his prime.

[Dbrog]

Yes, Lebron is definitely overrated. He somehow found a way to put up 30/7/7 and people make infinite comparisons to alltime greats. 30/7/7 is great and everything, but stats like this do not make you an instant legend as many people are calling him. If he single-handedly took over the Spurs series and put up 40/10/10 every game...ok, people could begin to talk. However, as everyone knows, he blundered miserably his first go-round. That isn't to say he won't go insane in the playoffs someday, but right now, legend + lebron = cannot be in the same sentence/paragraph/book.

[Fudge]

Yes, Lebron is definitely overrated. He somehow found a way to put up 30/7/7 and people make infinite comparisons to alltime greats. 30/7/7 is great and everything, but stats like this do not make you an instant legend as many people are calling him. If he single-handedly took over the Spurs series and put up 40/10/10 every game...ok, people could begin to talk. However, as everyone knows, he blundered miserably his first go-round. That isn't to say he won't go insane in the playoffs someday, but right now, legend + lebron = cannot be in the same sentence/paragraph/book.
No one (I hope) called him a legend. Who the **** said that? :oldlol:

How can any person, on the face of this planet, single-handedly take the Spurs? Tell me. A person playing right now. Spit it out. It's the Spurs, the best team playing in the world right now, possibly. And asking a 22 year old to go insane and put up those numbers proposd? 40/10/10 is a bit of darn stretch. Not to mention, on Bowen? Pff. :applause:

[Ben Simmons 25]

egokiller alt detected

[Manny98]

Damm so this was Straight_Bitchmades OG account :oldlol:

[Nowoco]

10 years from now we see how overated LBJ is when he will be in the same light as some of the greatest players ever to play and has won like 3 championships.

:pimp:

[PistonsFan#21]

10 years from now we see how overated LBJ is when he will be in the same light as some of the greatest players ever to play and has won like 3 championships.


:eek: We gonna act like time travelling isn't a real thing?

[jstern]

First off, LeBron is still 22 years old. Many 22 years old in the league just finished up their rookie season. He is still learning and growing. Everyone has to face adversity and hard times before the reach the mountaintop. It took Jordan many times before he was able to overcome the Pistons and get to the finals.

As for the level of competition, true the east sucks, but they still had to show up, execute, and make shots. Would they have made it to the finals if they were in the western conference? Hell no. HOwever, the real world isn't about hypotheticals. They played the hand that they were dealt, and did something that no other Cleveland team has ever done

Such a long time ago and even back then people were talking about how much the East sucked. Not even debating it, just a common fact, sky is blue kind of mentions. All these years later, and it still sucks. And just like mlh1981 said while defending Lebron, he wouldn't have made it to the Finals if he played in the West.

If he only knew that Lebron would one day go to the West and on his first try miss the playoffs.

[bison]

10 years from now we see how overated LBJ is when he will be in the same light as some of the greatest players ever to play and has won like 3 championships.

:lebronamazed: