Tried telling yall Mitchell is a stat stuffer, not a floor general. Brunson >>

[FultzNationRISE]

But hey, Mitchell has "first option stats," and that always seems to be enough to convince people a guy is a 'superstar.' Plenty of people still think guys like Arneas and Melo were "great players" because numbers. People think Westbrook is a top 50 player all time because triple doubles :lol

People said "Have you seen Mitchell's playoff stats!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?"

And I says to em, BEFORE this season even started, I says, "well, when I've watched him, and I used my brain to analyze what I'm seeing, I see a guy who scores buckets without really lifting the offense. He has an explosive iso game, but he doesnt have a great ball IQ. He's actually one of the rare guys who has an otherwise good, hard working attitude but is just legitimately not very savvy with the ball beyond iso play. He's not gonna win you playoff series with his style of play."

I tried to tell yall. But you insisted.

"DONOVAN MITCHELL!!!!! THIS IS GONNA BE HUGE!!!!! CLEVELAND IS LOADED NOW!!!!!!!"

There's levels to this stuff fellas.

Brunson isnt gonna put up the crazy highlights and big numbers in the regular season but if you actually have an ability to understand things you watch, you can see he's the more valuable guy.

But next season, sure as day, people are still gonna "rank" Mitchell as the better player throughout the course of the regular season because optically he does cooler things.

[Proctor]

Nobody has ever accused Mitchell of being a "floor general." That's a very specific thing reserved for guys like CP0, Conley, etc IMO.

Anyway, Mitchell and Brunson are both great players. Yes, Brunson is a little more "in control" with his dominance but that's a far cry from him being a floor general. I don't think the difference between the two is vast enough to warrant a thread.

[Xiao Yao You]

not to mention he doesn't play D or pass the ball

[Axe]

not to mention he doesn't play D or pass the ball
Meltdown.

[Xiao Yao You]

Meltdown.

are you a bot? It's either meltdown or why not more Jazz game threads or why isn't Gobert scoring more :facepalm

[Axe]

Why is 2d winless in that series against denver?

[Xiao Yao You]

Why is 2d winless in that series against denver?

You tell me? I guess Gobert isn't scoring enough? Or maybe something else :facepalm



2022-23
MIN
Post
3
35:00
6.0
14.7
40.9
1.7
5.3
31.3
2.3
3.0
77.8
1.0
8.7
9.7
1.7
4.3
0.3
0.7
16.0

[FultzNationRISE]

Nobody has ever accused Mitchell of being a "floor general." That's a very specific thing reserved for guys like CP0, Conley, etc IMO.

Anyway, Mitchell and Brunson are both great players. Yes, Brunson is a little more "in control" with his dominance but that's a far cry from him being a floor general. I don't think the difference between the two is vast enough to warrant a thread.


So what did people think he was a big deal for? The hype when he got traded to Cleveland made no sense if you actually watched him play playoff basketball before.

Is the Cleveland cast significantly better than a group of Conley, Toody, Bogdanovich, Clarkson, Ingles, Royce ONeal, etc?

Mitchell is a regular season guy. Teams dont spend days game planning against every iso player they face in the regular season. They pretty much show up to each game and run up and down and see who wins. It favors shot-spamming volume scorers. But it's not playoff basketball. And teams built around guys like that dont win in the playoffs.

I explained Mitchell's limitations to people when the trade was made, but hardly anybody could see beyond "this dude scorers p0ints!!!"

[Xiao Yao You]

So what did people think he was a big deal for? The hype when he got traded to Cleveland made no sense if you actually watched him play playoff basketball before.

Is the Cleveland cast significantly better than a group of Conley, Toody, Bogdanovich, Clarkson, Ingles, Royce ONeal, etc?

Mitchell is a regular season guy. Teams dont spend days game planning against every iso player they face in the regular season. They pretty much show up to each game and run up and down and see who wins. It favors shot-spamming volume scorers. But it's not playoff basketball. And teams built around guys like that dont win in the playoffs.

I explained Mitchell's limitations to people when the trade was made, but hardly anybody could see beyond "this dude scorers p0ints!!!"

it's certainly a better team and I would hope their coach actually makes playoff adjustments unlike COTM

[Axe]

You tell me? I guess Gobert isn't scoring enough? Or maybe something else :facepalm



2022-23
MIN
Post
3
35:00
6.0
14.7
40.9
1.7
5.3
31.3
2.3
3.0
77.8
1.0
8.7
9.7
1.7
4.3
0.3
0.7
16.0


But trailing 3-0 in the first round didn't happen to the wolves last year. Geez, i wonder what changed.

[Kblaze8855]

Nothing like the playoffs for a “See? This guy isn’t even a great player” overreaction to something nobody is even gonna remember for a player 50/50 to go to the hall of fame. Win or lose this random 4/5 matchup nobody is gonna care any more than you care what Chris Mullin did vs the Sonics in 92. Frankly the numbers and play style do a lot more for legacy than things like this which are usually never even mentioned again. All the people you’re talking about are “just” second tier hall of fame instead of that top group of eternal legends. It’s not a bad place to be. It’s certainly well into the “great” category. Not like there is some group of madmen trying to tell you Mitchell is top 5 to justify pushback.

Hes a great combo guard. Something along the lines of maybe Vince Carter or…whoever. He’s a “If healthy” hall of famer. That doesn’t require being top 3.

[Manny98]

Y'all really waited for Mitchell to have a bad game to talk shit :facepalm

[imdaman99]

Next thing y'all gonna say is that Davion Mitchell >>> Donovan Mitchell

[FultzNationRISE]

Nothing like the playoffs for a “See? This guy isn’t even a great player” overreaction to something nobody is even gonna remember for a player 50/50 to go to the hall of fame. Win or lose this random 4/5 matchup nobody is gonna care any more than you care what Chris Mullin did vs the Sonics in 92. Frankly the numbers and play style do a lot more for legacy than things like this which are usually never even mentioned again. All the people you’re talking about are “just” second tier hall of fame instead of that top group of eternal legends. It’s not a bad place to be. It’s certainly well into the “great” category.


I guess I just find it interesting how perspectives can vary so much on something.

If you told people you had a poor man’s Kobe available to their team, most people would think thats a great opportunity and would love to have a poor man’s Kobe. Whereas I would be mildly hesitant to commit to building around the REAL Kobe, certainly wouldnt see any reason to prize a poor man’s version.

Just fascinating how minds work differently.

[FultzNationRISE]

Y'all really waited for Mitchell to have a bad game to talk shit :facepalm


When the trade was made this is EXACTLY what I said:

“I expect this to give them a nice regular season boost, but Im doubtful a Mitchell and Garland backcourt is gonna have enough IQ to move the needle in the playoffs.”

And here they are, down 3-1 to a mediocre Knicks team.

People just wanted to see what they wanted to see.

[Xiao Yao You]

But trailing 3-0 in the first round didn't happen to the wolves last year. Geez, i wonder what changed.

different opponent amongst many other things. Are you really as stupid as you act? :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

Y'all really waited for Mitchell to have a bad game to talk shit :facepalm

I didn't

[Axe]

Yet you raved about 2d having a winning record against 7'1 brian windhorst. :kobe:

Too bad that didn't mean anything in the playoffs tho. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

When the trade was made this is EXACTLY what I said:

“I expect this to give them a nice regular season boost, but Im doubtful a Mitchell and Garland backcourt is gonna have enough IQ to move the needle in the playoffs.”

And here they are, down 3-1 to a mediocre Knicks team.

People just wanted to see what they wanted to see.

there wasn't much doubt that they weren't going to win with a tiny backcourt. If Mitchell used his length and size on D maybe but he doesn't

[Xiao Yao You]

Nothing like the playoffs for a “See? This guy isn’t even a great player” overreaction to something nobody is even gonna remember for a player 50/50 to go to the hall of fame. Win or lose this random 4/5 matchup nobody is gonna care any more than you care what Chris Mullin did vs the Sonics in 92. Frankly the numbers and play style do a lot more for legacy than things like this which are usually never even mentioned again. All the people you’re talking about are “just” second tier hall of fame instead of that top group of eternal legends. It’s not a bad place to be. It’s certainly well into the “great” category. Not like there is some group of madmen trying to tell you Mitchell is top 5 to justify pushback.

Hes a great combo guard. Something along the lines of maybe Vince Carter or…whoever. He’s a “If healthy” hall of famer. That doesn’t require being top 3.

this coming from the guy that has Boozer ahead of Gobert because of his playoff prowess :roll:

[Kblaze8855]

this coming from the guy that has Boozer ahead of Gobert because of his playoff prowess :roll:


Go read 120 posts of that not being said or cared about if you like. I feel no need to say all the same shit to you again when the actual words are available to read.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?510738-Give-me-an-idea-of-where-you-rank-prime-Rondo-as-a-point-guard

[Xiao Yao You]

Go read 120 posts of that not being said or cared about if you like. I feel no need to say all the same shit to you again when the actual words are available to read.

or read the post where it was said. Not the kind of stupidity one forgets unless they were the one that posted it

[Kblaze8855]

or read the post where it was said. Not the kind of stupidity one forgets unless they were the one that posted it

When I say somebody said something I show it to them. That’s how people know I’m not full of shit. If I say you said it it’s because I can show it to you. You fabricate shit all the time about a lot of people. The funny thing is while I know I didn’t say it I would be perfectly content to say it because it doesn’t matter. There isn’t a significant enough difference between those two to run from the take. There was a post two years ago, asking which jazz era was greater, and I said the boozer era because of greater playoff success and equally irrelevant regular seasons. You took that to mean Boozer>Gobert and ran with it much like you fabricated me believing the better basketball player is the better coach which nobody on this entire planet believes.

you say I and other people say these things all the time with no evidence because it doesn’t exist and you live in a world created in your obsessed mind. You just aren’t very good in arguments so you make bad ones up to counter and still can’t usually discredit the tailor-made ones fabricated for that purpose. If you’re gonna make up an opposing argument to make yourself look good, at least be good enough at this to win it.

Youre like a guy in a duel who gets to choose the weapons and selects pistols when he’s never shot a gun. If you’re going to rig the battle to your liking be prepared to win. A cheater who loses anyway…kinda loses twice.

[Xiao Yao You]

When I say somebody said something I show it to them. That’s how people know I’m not full of shit. If I say you said it it’s because I can show it to you. You fabricate shit all the time about a lot of people. The funny thing is while I know I didn’t say it I would be perfectly content to say it because it doesn’t matter. There isn’t a significant enough difference between those two to run from the take. There was a post two years ago, asking which jazz era was greater, and I said the boozer era because of greater playoff success and equally irrelevant regular seasons. You took that to mean Boozer>Gobert and ran with it much like you fabricated me believing the better basketball player is the better coach which nobody on this entire planet believes.

you say I and other people say these things all the time with no evidence because it doesn’t exist and you live in a world created in your obsessed mind. You just aren’t very good in arguments so you make bad ones up to counter and still can’t usually discredit the tailor-made ones fabricated for that purpose. If you’re gonna make up an opposing argument to make yourself look good, at least be good enough at this to win it.

Youre like a guy in a duel who gets to choose the weapons and selects pistols when he’s never shot a gun. If you’re going to rig the battle to your liking be prepared to win. A cheater who loses anyway…kinda loses twice.

show me the stuff I fabricated all the time about a lot of people?

There is a significant difference between the two. Gobert is the 3rd best player in his franchises history. Boozer was the 3rd best PF during the "Boozer era". I thought it was the Williams era but again you're the expert! :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Tim Bontemps: Donovan Mitchell took responsibility for Cleveland’s loss today, saying repeatedly he has to be better. Said the Knicks threw some extra double teams at him, but that he liked the shots he got and ultimately needs to play better (https://*********.com/social/).

– via Twitter TimBontemps (https://twitter.com/TimBontemps)




pretty much Mitchell in a nutshell. Talks about the shots he's getting out of double teams not finding the open man out of the double team or any mention of D as usual

[Kblaze8855]

Stuff you fabricated is in this topic. Post 20.

And I never said Boozer was the best player on those Jazz. In fact I listed him as one of 25 all stars I’d take peak Christie over. The closest I ever came to comparing him to Deron is this


Dont get me wrong....id rather have Deron Williams than Carlos Boozer....im just saying....Carlos went to work those playoffs.


Wont even go into AK47.

[Xiao Yao You]

Stuff you fabricated is in this topic. Post 20.

And I never said Boozer was the best player on those Jazz. In fact I listed him as one of 25 all stars I’d take peak Christie over. The closest I ever came to comparing him to Deron is this




Wont even go into AK47.

post 20 is one douchebag not a lot of people and not fabricated. You said Boozer was better than Gobert because he beat the 8th seed to get to the west finals. Jazz were favored. You just called it the Boozer era. To me that's saying he's their best player. Why compare him with Gobert if he's not the best player? Why not compare him with Williams or Kirilenko who is the most similar to Gobert impact wise? Boozer was usually hurt and a horrible defender. You can have him. I'll take AK and Millsap any day

[Axe]

Conference finals appearances

Boozer: 1

Gobert: 0

Issa wrap

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao Yao You, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?

If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.



and I can't prove it for some strange reason. Funny how that works for ya

[Xiao Yao You]

Conference finals appearances

Boozer: 1

Gobert: 0

Issa wrap

Boozer made it as the favorite and not the best player on his team. You really want to go on record with Kblaze with your stupidity?

[Kblaze8855]

You saying I said it when I can literally show you every time I’ve said the word “Boozer” since 2009 doesn’t make it true anymore than your rantings about Gobert are true because you believe them. “Because he beat bla bla bla….” doesn’t even sound like me. The words people say here…still exist. The reason nobody can find what you say…is because you’re delusional. The reason I can show you what I said…is because I said it. You can’t show me saying the better basketball player is the better coach either because neither I…nor anyone on earth...said that either.

As I said, if you you’re going to make up arguments, at least be able to win them. I could take you apart if I were wrong and had to argue from the perspective you fabricate for me because I tend to be rational and make some degree of sense even if people don’t agree with it. You take wrong points and argue them poorly on top of it and have made a group of people who otherwise wouldn’t care he exists revel in the failures of a historical footnote bigman who is about 115% of Andre Drummond.

Youre the worst kind of fan. The kind who generates haters for the target of his obsession. With fans like you who needs detractors? You do him more harm than anyone. And you come on here and derail topics for this dumb shit daily.

If you want to continue foolish made up arguments do them in the topics they originate. I linked to the topic you started this in(which was itself a derailed topic about Rondo). If you’re so sure the shit is said reply to it where it’s said so it isn’t in question


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PreciousDisgustingBorderterrier-size_restricted.gif





There is no third option.

[Axe]

Boozer made it as the favorite and not the best player on his team. You really want to go on record with Kblaze with your stupidity?
Nothing is more stupid than you trying to cheer for your hero when he punched one of his teammates recently. Pfft.

[Xiao Yao You]

You saying I said it when I can literally show you every time I’ve said the word “Boozer” since 2009 doesn’t make it true anymore than your rantings about Gobert are true because you believe them. “Because he beat bla bla bla….” doesn’t even sound like me. The words people say here…still exist. The reason nobody can find what you say…is because you’re delusional. The reason I can show you what I said…is because I said it. You can’t show me saying the better basketball player is the better coach either because neither I…nor anyone on earth...said that either.

As I said, if you you’re going to make up arguments, at least be able to win them. I could take you apart if I were wrong and had to argue from the perspective you fabricate for me because I tend to be rational and make some degree of sense even if people don’t agree with it. You take wrong points and argue them poorly on top of it and have made a group of people who otherwise wouldn’t care he exists revel in the failures of a historical footnote bigman who is about 115% of Andre Drummond.

Youre the worst kind of fan. The kind who generates haters for the target of his obsession. With fans like you who needs detractors? You do him more harm than anyone. And you come on here and derail topics for this dumb shit daily.

If you want to continue foolish made up arguments do them in the topics they originate. I linked to the topic you started this in(which was itself a derailed topic about Rondo). If you’re so sure the shit is said reply to it where it’s said so it isn’t in question


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PreciousDisgustingBorderterrier-size_restricted.gif





There is no third option.

I can't show you because I'm not allowed to


Xiao Yao You, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?

If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

you did say COTM shouldn't be questioned because he was a better basketball player than me as well. When people say bizarre shit I remember it. What teams did Drummond carry anywhere other than the lottery? More crazy ass shit from you. I guess I should bookmark it for when you later deny it

[Xiao Yao You]

Nothing is more stupid than you trying to cheer for your hero when he punched one of his teammates recently. Pfft.

again with the hero shit bot. I'm a grown man unlike many here apparently. I don't have heroes

[Axe]

Stop denying it. :milton

Period.

[Xiao Yao You]

Stop denying it. :milton

Period.

denying what bot?

[Kblaze8855]

I can't show you because I'm not allowed to



you did say COTM shouldn't be questioned because he was a better basketball player than me as well. When people say bizarre shit I remember it. What teams did Drummond carry anywhere other than the lottery? More crazy ass shit from you. I guess I should bookmark it for when you later deny it


Sure I did. Paragon of truth that you are.

Far as your Drummond issue….as usual your question requires the acceptance of a ridiculous supposition to even begin. Gobert has never carried a team so it’s of no relevance where Drummond carried one. In a comparison between Antonio Davis and Theo Ratliff which of them did the best carry job is a non starter. Same here. Might as well judge Jerry Stackhouse vs Michael Finley by finals mvps. It’s nothing vs nothing. It’s two bitches scissoring. Except there’s a possibility of enjoyment even if nothing can be accomplished there so…it’s probably worse.

That’s your specialty it seems. To promulgate stupid go nowhere arguments that require acceptance of the ridiculous to even begin. And in truth I have some experience in that myself.

But I’m personable. I know how to talk to people. And my subject matter is varied enough that nobody knows where they’ll end up when they follow me down one of my trademark winding paths. Everything you have to say is a trip from your mouth directly back up your Rudy Gobert upholstered ass where the opinion came from to begin with which is one reason you’re so often trolled instead of spoken to like a fellow sports fan. The endless cycle from your ass to your mouth and back is only interesting until you realize it really is a closed loop with no chance of a different outcome.

My nonsense could take you anywhere. Might be a good time. Might bore you to tears. But you won’t end up in my ass taking a shitty trip back to my mouth. And ass to mouth is all you’re capable of at this point. And I’m content to let you do it shitty breath and all.

Just…please stop derailing topics to do it.

[Xiao Yao You]

Sure I did. Paragon of truth that you are.

Far as your Drummond issue….as usual your question requires the acceptance of a ridiculous supposition to even begin. Gobert has never carried a team so it’s of no relevance where Drummond carried one. In a comparison between Antonio Davis and Theo Ratliff which of them did the best carry job is a non starter. Same here. Might as well judge Jerry Stackhouse vs Michael Finley by finals mvps. It’s nothing vs nothing. It’s two bitches scissoring. Except there’s a possibility of enjoyment even if nothing can be accomplished there so…it’s probably worse.

That’s your specialty it seems. To promulgate stupid go nowhere arguments that require acceptance of the ridiculous to even begin. And in truth I have some experience in that myself.

But I’m personable. I know how to talk to people. And my subject matter is varied enough that nobody knows where they’ll end up when they follow me down one of my trademark winding paths. Everything you have to say is a trip from your mouth directly back up your Rudy Gobert upholstered ass where the opinion came from to begin with which is one reason you’re so often trolled instead of spoken to like a fellow sports fan. The endless cycle from your ass to your mouth and back is only interesting until you realize it really is a closed loop with no chance of a different outcome.

My nonsense could take you anywhere. Might be a good time. Might bore you to tears. But you won’t end up in my ass taking a shitty trip back to my mouth. And ass to mouth is all you’re capable of at this point. And I’m content to let you do it shitty breath and all.

Just…please stop derailing topics to do it.

big difference between making a tanking team good and being in the lottery in an awful conference. Was Drummond even the best player on his team? Certainly not the 3rd best player in Detroit history. Guess that doesn't matter as was the case with Boozer. Be hard to argue Drummond over the legendary Boozer even let alone a muliti time All NBA/DPOTY. I'd prefer Finley, Davis and Ratliff over either myself. But go ahead and keep patting yourself on the back for how personable you are and how varied your subject matter is :lol

[Jasper]

I would not call Mitchell a stat stuffer... but for some reason he is playing off in the knicks series. (maybe they have his number ?? ) unsure.

But he is not a franchise player as we discussed in another thread. Perfect 2nd option type player.

[Manny98]

big difference between making a tanking team good and being in the lottery in an awful conference. Was Drummond even the best player on his team? Certainly not the 3rd best player in Detroit history. Guess that doesn't matter as was the case with Boozer. Be hard to argue Drummond over the legendary Boozer even let alone a muliti time All NBA/DPOTY. I'd prefer Finley, Davis and Ratliff over either myself. But go ahead and keep patting yourself on the back for how personable you are and how varied your subject matter is :lol
When I think of carrying a team I think of LeBron in 2018 and MJ pre Pippen

The Jazz had two other all stars, a 6moy and a 20ppg scorer in Bogdan

I guess you could argue Rudy was the best player on that team but I don't understand how you can constantly say with a straight face that he carried them

[Kblaze8855]

as usual your question requires the acceptance of a ridiculous supposition to even begin.





big difference between making a tanking team good and being in the lottery in an awful conference. Was Drummond even the best player on his team? Certainly not the 3rd best player in Detroit history. Guess that doesn't matter as was the case with Boozer. Be hard to argue Drummond over the legendary Boozer even let alone a muliti time All NBA/DPOTY. I'd prefer Finley, Davis and Ratliff over either myself. But go ahead and keep patting yourself on the back for how personable you are and how varied your subject matter is :lol


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CheapQuickHog-size_restricted.gif

[Manny98]

When the trade was made this is EXACTLY what I said:

“I expect this to give them a nice regular season boost, but Im doubtful a Mitchell and Garland backcourt is gonna have enough IQ to move the needle in the playoffs.”

And here they are, down 3-1 to a mediocre Knicks team.

People just wanted to see what they wanted to see.

Knicks are playing way above their usual level, I could see them beating anyone out East of they keep up this level of play Mitchell was terrific the first two games and is overall having a better series than Brunson so I don't understand what your point is

[tpols]

I didn't realize Brunson was this good. He's legit on another level mentally to be able to do what he does given his relatively unatheltic build.

[Kblaze8855]

I didn't realize Brunson was this good. He's legit on another level mentally to be able to do what he does given his relatively unatheltic build.


Ever notice how many people are on teams of guys who have “No help” till they get on their own?


Who you taking…Oladipo when he got to the pacers or Brunson on the Knicks?

One thing is clear…the league needs more Duncan types who will let you see what you have. One guy shouldn’t do it all even if maybe he can.

[Xiao Yao You]

When I think of carrying a team I think of LeBron in 2018 and MJ pre Pippen

The Jazz had two other all stars, a 6moy and a 20ppg scorer in Bogdan

I guess you could argue Rudy was the best player on that team but I don't understand how you can constantly say with a straight face that he carried them

when you're trying to tank and you end up the 6th best team in the league because of one change to the starting lineup it is carrying. When you are trying to tank and are only successful at it because one guy is injured it is carrying. When you are closer to the top pick in the draft than the playoffs and end up the 6th seed when one player comes back from injury it is carrying. When one guy is off the floor and you are bad when he is off the floor it is carrying.

[Xiao Yao You]

I didn't realize Brunson was this good. He's legit on another level mentally to be able to do what he does given his relatively unatheltic build.

his dad played and coaches. I'm sure that helps him

[tpols]

Ever notice how many people are on teams of guys who have “No help” till they get on their own?


Who you taking…Oladipo when he got to the pacers or Brunson on the Knicks?

One thing is clear…the league needs more Duncan types who will let you see what you have. One guy shouldn’t do it all even if maybe he can.

Yea luka was luckier than i thought to have him. Luka is still one of the most ballsiest young players I've ever seen though given what he did 3 years ago against a healthy kawhi and Paul George as a playoff rookie. Turns out Brunson is as well

[Manny98]

when you're trying to tank and you end up the 6th best team in the league because of one change to the starting lineup it is carrying. When you are trying to tank and are only successful at it because one guy is injured it is carrying. When you are closer to the top pick in the draft than the playoffs and end up the 6th seed when one player comes back from injury it is carrying. When one guy is off the floor and you are bad when he is off the floor it is carrying.

You're such a ****ing delusional idiot :facepalm

Rudy has never carried a team stop with this trolling nonsense

[fsvr54]

I'm with you. Not sure how most people haven't seen it. Dude is an overrated, undersized black hole.

[Xiao Yao You]

You're such a ****ing delusional idiot :facepalm

Rudy has never carried a team stop with this trolling nonsense

8 straight losses on a tanking team before Gobert emerged and led the Burke/Exum/bums to the 6th best record in the league after he became starter. Only his injuries and the attempted tank despite the previous years finish kept them out of the playoffs the next year. Mitchell's rookie year they were closer to the top pick than the playoffs when Gobert came back from injury to take the 5th seed and their 2nd straight 1st round upset. When he was out or off the court the Jazz were one of the worst teams in the league. These are facts. I know it's hard for the trolls to deal in facts

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm with you. Not sure how most people haven't seen it. Dude is an overrated, undersized black hole.

let's not forget he only plays one end of the floor as well

[Manny98]

8 straight losses on a tanking team before Gobert emerged and led the Burke/Exum/bums to the 6th best record in the league after he became starter. Only his injuries and the attempted tank despite the previous years finish kept them out of the playoffs the next year. Mitchell's rookie year they were closer to the top pick than the playoffs when Gobert came back from injury to take the 5th seed and their 2nd straight 1st round upset. When he was out or off the court the Jazz were one of the worst teams in the league. These are facts. I know it's hard for the trolls to deal in facts

Before Mitchell Hayward was considered the best player on the Jazz and the franchise player. Even if you were to make an argument that Gobert was somehow better than Hayward in 2017 the gap between them isn't significant to the point you could say Gobert "carried" the team :facepalm

If he carried them so much how come they proceeded to upset the Clippers in the first round without Gobert playing for the bulk of the series you ****ing clown

[ralph_i_el]

Honestly, the Brunson highlights are even crazier to me just because of how different he plays compared to most scorers. I'm jumping out of my seat like 5 times a game watching him hit these wild shots off the dribble over taller defenders without any vert.

[Xiao Yao You]

Before Mitchell Hayward was considered the best player on the Jazz and the franchise player. Even if you were to make an argument that Gobert was somehow better than Hayward in 2017 the gap between them isn't significant to the point you could say Gobert "carried" the team :facepalm

If he carried them so much how come they proceeded to upset the Clippers in the first round without Gobert playing for the bulk of the series you ****ing clown

Again what trolls consider best player and what the impact stats shows are two different things. Hayward, Favors, Burks and Kanter were considered their young core as they tried to tank before their backup center took that roster to the 6th best record. Anyone following the team saw that. Without Gobert in 2017 they are a lottery team. Without Hayward the next year they made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs after being written off. We can do this all day. I saw the games. Only happeed once in over 40 years of Jazz basketball. Stockton and Malone didn't do it. The great Boozer didn't do it. Kirilenko is the closest thing to it and they moved him to the 3 and he didn't put in the work to get better and stay healthy like Gobert

[Manny98]

Again what trolls consider best player and what the impact stats shows are two different things. Hayward, Favors, Burks and Kanter were considered their young core as they tried to tank before their backup center took that roster to the 6th best record. Anyone following the team saw that. Without Gobert in 2017 they are a lottery team. Without Hayward the next year they made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs after being written off. We can do this all day. I saw the games. Only happeed once in over 40 years of Jazz basketball. Stockton and Malone didn't do it. The great Boozer didn't do it. Kirilenko is the closest thing to it and they moved him to the 3 and he didn't put in the work to get better and stay healthy like Gobert
Yet they won a playoff series against the lob city Clippers without Rudy

[Xiao Yao You]

Yet they won a playoff series against the lob city Clippers without Rudy

they won a game, not a series, without Gobert. Best team Gobert has been on despite its major flaws

[Manny98]

they won a game, not a series, without Gobert. Best team Gobert has been on despite its major flaws

They won games 1,4,7 without him and in he barely did much in game 5 either

[Xiao Yao You]

They won games 1,4,7 without him and in he barely did much in game 5 either

He started game 1. Played game 7. You are right for a change though he only 11 pts, 11 boards, 5 steals in 36 minutes in game 5 with a sprained knee. Certainly was a minor factor in that one :roll:

[Full Court]

But hey, Mitchell has "first option stats," and that always seems to be enough to convince people a guy is a 'superstar.' Plenty of people still think guys like Arneas and Melo were "great players" because numbers. People think Westbrook is a top 50 player all time because triple doubles :lol

People said "Have you seen Mitchell's playoff stats!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?"

And I says to em, BEFORE this season even started, I says, "well, when I've watched him, and I used my brain to analyze what I'm seeing, I see a guy who scores buckets without really lifting the offense. He has an explosive iso game, but he doesnt have a great ball IQ. He's actually one of the rare guys who has an otherwise good, hard working attitude but is just legitimately not very savvy with the ball beyond iso play. He's not gonna win you playoff series with his style of play."

I tried to tell yall. But you insisted.

"DONOVAN MITCHELL!!!!! THIS IS GONNA BE HUGE!!!!! CLEVELAND IS LOADED NOW!!!!!!!"

There's levels to this stuff fellas.

Brunson isnt gonna put up the crazy highlights and big numbers in the regular season but if you actually have an ability to understand things you watch, you can see he's the more valuable guy.

But next season, sure as day, people are still gonna "rank" Mitchell as the better player throughout the course of the regular season because optically he does cooler things.


I know, right???

And people thinking Lebron is top 5 of all time because of career points. :roll:

[Manny98]

He started game 1. Played game 7. You are right for a change though he only 11 pts, 11 boards, 5 steals in 36 minutes in game 5 with a sprained knee. Certainly was a minor factor in that one :roll:

He played 17 seconds in game 1 and fouled out in the first quarter of game 7 :roll:

Thank God for Hayward!

[Xiao Yao You]

He played 17 seconds in game 1 and fouled out in the first quarter of game 7 :roll:

Thank God for Hayward!

He was great in the playoffs but there would have been no playoff without Gobert. They would probably still been tanking:facepalm

[Manny98]

He was great in the playoffs but there would have been no playoff without Gobert. They would probably still been tanking:facepalm

They would be tanking without their star player Hayward as well what's your point

[Xiao Yao You]

They would be tanking without their star player Hayward as well what's your point

they were tanking with your so called star Hayward until their backup center suddenly made them too good to tank. Once Hayward left they were supposed to not be good but guess what? They didn't miss a beat despite Favors and Rubio spotting up in the corner

[Manny98]

they were tanking with your so called star Hayward until their backup center suddenly made them too good to tank. Once Hayward left they were supposed to not be good but guess what? They didn't miss a beat despite Favors and Rubio spotting up in the corner

They didn't miss a beat because they added Mitchell and O'Neal to the lineup

Utah were trending upwards every year, they weren't tanking they were almost a .500 team then Hayward took a leap into becoming a star and they added veterans in Hill and Johnson which helped them become a playoff team

Gobert taking a leap helped as well but you're being disingenuous acting like Gobert deserves all of the credit for their success

[Axe]

Before Mitchell Hayward was considered the best player on the Jazz and the franchise player. Even if you were to make an argument that Gobert was somehow better than Hayward in 2017 the gap between them isn't significant to the point you could say Gobert "carried" the team :facepalm

If he carried them so much how come they proceeded to upset the Clippers in the first round without Gobert playing for the bulk of the series you ****ing clown
Ether.

[Xiao Yao You]

They didn't miss a beat because they added Mitchell and O'Neal to the lineup

Utah were trending upwards every year, they weren't tanking they were almost a .500 team then Hayward took a leap into becoming a star and they added veterans in Hill and Johnson which helped them become a playoff team

Gobert taking a leap helped as well but you're being disingenuous acting like Gobert deserves all of the credit for their success

They were certainly tanking. They'd lost 8 in a row before Gobert emerged. As bad as any team in the league. The following year they started rookie Neto with Burke backing him up despite their great finish the year before. Only missed the playoffs because Gobert was hurt and they waited to long to get a vet pg to replace the bum Burke. 3rd stringer Shelvin Mack was their 4th best player almost immediately. LOL! They were trending upwards because Gobert made them competitive. Hayward's leap to being an all star is because Gobert made them good. He's no all star on a tanking team. Shouldn't have been one ahead of Gobert either. Mitchell and O'Neale had them closer to the top pick in the draft than the playoffs when Gobert came back from injury. He carried them to the 5th seed and another first round upset. All the credit in a team game no. But without him they were an awful team

[Manny98]

Yep Gobert is the GOAT he's the best big man since Tim Duncan

Haywards a bum who wouldn't be an all star if not for Rudy

Who cares that they managed to beat the Clippers without him. Gobert gets all the credit still because he's the greatest

Mitchell sucks who cares that he went 8-3 without Gobert last season, he's a bum and that run was a fluke

Honestly despite having barely any success in the playoffs they should still build a statue for Gobert because he was so great for that franchise carrying bums like Mitchell and Hayward to the playoffs year in and year out!

[Kblaze8855]

He played 17 seconds in game 1 and fouled out in the first quarter of game 7 :roll:

Thank God for Hayward!


Dude really corrected you saying they won without him over two games he played a combined 13 minutes.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yep Gobert is the GOAT he's the best big man since Tim Duncan

Haywards a bum who wouldn't be an all star if not for Rudy

Who cares that they managed to beat the Clippers without him. Gobert gets all the credit still because he's the greatest

Mitchell sucks who cares that he went 8-3 without Gobert last season, he's a bum and that run was a fluke

Honestly despite having barely any success in the playoffs they should still build a statue for Gobert because he was so great for that franchise carrying bums like Mitchell and Hayward to the playoffs year in and year out!

they didn't beat the Clippers without him. Back to your 10 game sample size when I have 8 plus years :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

Dude really corrected you saying they won without him over two games he played a combined 13 minutes.

the personable one back with his varied take! :lol

[Manny98]

Dude really corrected you saying they won without him over two games he played a combined 13 minutes.

Honestly those 17 seconds that Rudy played in game 1 was the key reason they won, they would have gotten blown out otherwise

[Kblaze8855]

the personable one back with his varied take! :lol


Give it a shot. Not coming off as a single issue obsessed freak goes a long way towards acceptance of your thoughts as worth considering.

Theres no way this is how you behave when you leave here. None of you one player obsessed types do. Try being the version of you that’s shown to people you aren’t typing to.

[Kblaze8855]

Honestly those 17 seconds that Rudy played in game 1 was the key reason they won, they would have gotten blown out otherwise

It’s just a really weird ass thing to do. If I say such and such didn’t even play…what kind of person points out they played less than a single shot clock as if they just made a good point?

[ShawkFactory]

It's weird to me that someone is such a staunch Rudy Gobert fan. Not only is he just not good enough to warrant that, but he also seems unlikeable.

Strange stuff.

[Xiao Yao You]

It's weird to me that someone is such a staunch Rudy Gobert fan. Not only is he just not good enough to warrant that, but he also seems unlikeable.

Strange stuff.

seems perfectly reasonable that you'd like the guy that makes your hometown team, that you've watched since you were 10, good especially since no one else in those 40 plus years has done it for the franchise. What's weird is that others think I should root for someone else because they have a lot of hype or score a lot of points or for whatever ridiculous reason. I like guys that play hard, play smart, play unselfishly, play both ends etc. You can have Mitchell, Clarkson, Boozer etc. I got no need for them

[Xiao Yao You]

Joe Mussatto: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander finished second behind Lauri Markkanen for Most Improved Player (https://*********.com/social/). SGA received 24 1st place votes. Markkanen received 69 1st place votes.

but thank you Donovon for this :cheers:

[Axe]

It's weird to me that someone is such a staunch Rudy Gobert fan. Not only is he just not good enough to warrant that, but he also seems unlikeable.

Strange stuff.
Cheering for him after he punched his teammate in the camera is extraordinary lmao.

[Xiao Yao You]

Cheering for him after he punched his teammate in the camera is extraordinary lmao.

almost as extraordinary as spending your life trolling someone on the internet

[Axe]

No u

[RRR3]

seems perfectly reasonable that you'd like the guy that makes your hometown team, that you've watched since you were 10, good especially since no one else in those 40 plus years has done it for the franchise. What's weird is that others think I should root for someone else because they have a lot of hype or score a lot of points or for whatever ridiculous reason. I like guys that play hard, play smart, play unselfishly, play both ends etc. You can have Mitchell, Clarkson, Boozer etc. I got no need for them
No one else in Jazz history has made them good besides Rudy, so true.

[Xiao Yao You]

speaking of extraordinary

can't quit me!

[jayfan]

Nothing like the playoffs for a “See? This guy isn’t even a great player” overreaction to something nobody is even gonna remember for a player 50/50 to go to the hall of fame. Win or lose this random 4/5 matchup nobody is gonna care any more than you care what Chris Mullin did vs the Sonics in 92. Frankly the numbers and play style do a lot more for legacy than things like this which are usually never even mentioned again. All the people you’re talking about are “just” second tier hall of fame instead of that top group of eternal legends. It’s not a bad place to be. It’s certainly well into the “great” category. Not like there is some group of madmen trying to tell you Mitchell is top 5 to justify pushback.

Hes a great combo guard. Something along the lines of maybe Vince Carter or…whoever. He’s a “If healthy” hall of famer. That doesn’t require being top 3.


The gist of OP's point is that Mitchell doesn't make the Cavs better. The trade didn't make the Cavs better. And he's right. Mitchell's not a winning team player.

If all you care about is gaudy stats and individual achievements, then yeah, have at it.


.

[Manny98]

The gist of OP's point is that Mitchell doesn't make the Cavs better. The trade didn't make the Cavs better. And he's right. Mitchell's not a winning team player.

If all you care about is gaudy stats and individual achievements, then yeah, have at it.


.
They went from 44 to 51 wins and a bottom 10 to a top 10 offense

We're not going to sit up here and act like the Cavs didn't improve at all from last year :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

They went from 44 to 51 wins and a bottom 10 to a top 10 offense

We're not going to sit up here and act like the Cavs didn't improve at all from last year :facepalm

Mitchell had nothing to do with their defense improving. It improved in spite of him not playing that end. They were healthier this year. No one even played 70 games for them last year. They were good last year before fading at the end

[Manny98]

That's why I specifically noted how they improved offensively, can you read?

[Xiao Yao You]

They went from 44 to 51 wins and a bottom 10 to a top 10 offense

We're not going to sit up here and act like the Cavs didn't improve at all from last year :facepalm

they were healthier which is a big thing. Same reason the Jazz were the number 1 seed a year ago

[jayfan]

They went from 44 to 51 wins and a bottom 10 to a top 10 offense

We're not going to sit up here and act like the Cavs didn't improve at all from last year :facepalm


They were plagued by injuries last season, all season long. They would have eclipsed 51 wins.


.

[Manny98]

They were plagued by injuries last season, all season long. They would have eclipsed 51 wins.


.

Not really Garland and Mobley played the same amount of games this year as they did last year

Allen played 68 games this year to 56 not a massive difference

That's not enough to explain going from one of the worst offenses to one of the best offenses.

Mitchell has given this team a whole new element offensively and they still maintained a elite defense

They haven't hit their ceiling as Mobley needs to develop offensively and Mitchell and Garland have to get used to playing alongside each other

[Xiao Yao You]

Not really Garland and Mobley played the same amount of games this year as they did last year

Allen played 68 games this year to 56 not a massive difference

That's not enough to explain going from one of the worst offenses to one of the best offenses.

Mitchell has given this team a whole new element offensively and they still maintained a elite defense

They haven't hit their ceiling as Mobley needs to develop offensively and Mitchell and Garland have to get used to playing alongside each other

12 games isn't a massive difference in an 82 game season? that could be 6 wins for a .500 team. Being a year older for a young team makes a lot of difference as well. Their ceiling is limited with a small backcourt. Mitchell or Garland will have to go

[Manny98]

12 games isn't a massive difference in an 82 game season? that could be 6 wins for a .500 team. Being a year older for a young team makes a lot of difference as well. Their ceiling is limited with a small backcourt. Mitchell or Garland will have to go

Mitchell also missed a bunch of games this year which could have lead to more wins , we could go all day with this but the main point I'm making is that the Cavs offense has noticeably improved with the addition of Mitchell to say he hasn't made them better this year is dumb

[jayfan]

Not really Garland and Mobley played the same amount of games this year as they did last year

Allen played 68 games this year to 56 not a massive difference

That's not enough to explain going from one of the worst offenses to one of the best offenses.

Mitchell has given this team a whole new element offensively and they still maintained a elite defense

They haven't hit their ceiling as Mobley needs to develop offensively and Mitchell and Garland have to get used to playing alongside each other

Dude, stop it.

Collin Sexton was lost for the season in November.

Rubio, who was playing like an all-star, was lost for the season in December.

Jarrett Allen missed the final month of the season.

Garland-Mobley-Allen played 40 games together.

Markkanen-Garland-Mobley-Allen played 29 games together.


And they still won 44 games.

[Xiao Yao You]

Dude, stop it.

Collin Sexton was lost for the season in November.

Rubio, who was playing like an all-star, was lost for the season in December.

Jarrett Allen missed the final month of the season.

Garland-Mobley-Allen played 40 games together.

Markkanen-Garland-Mobley-Allen played 29 games together.


And they still won 44 games.

Sexton obviously was a loss. Rubio playing like an star though :roll:

[jayfan]

Sexton obviously was a loss. Rubio playing like an star though :roll:

He was. He was playing the best ball of his nba career, by far, the first 2.5 months of last season. And he had become the on-court leader of the team.

[Xiao Yao You]

He was. He was playing the best ball of his nba career, by far, the first 2.5 months of last season. And he had become the on-court leader of the team.

was he making layups, hitting 3's and playing D in front of his man? I never saw much of any of those in Utah.

[Manny98]

Dude, stop it.

Collin Sexton was lost for the season in November.

Rubio, who was playing like an all-star, was lost for the season in December.

Jarrett Allen missed the final month of the season.

Garland-Mobley-Allen played 40 games together.

Markkanen-Garland-Mobley-Allen played 29 games together.


And they still won 44 games.

Again we can go all day with these would haves but the facts are that the Cavs offense has noticeably improved with the addition of Mitchell

[Xiao Yao You]

Again we can go all day with these would haves but the facts are that the Cavs offense has noticeably improved with the addition of Mitchell

and with a healthier and older team