What will Bronsexuals do if AD wins Finals MVP?

[IllegalD]

What will Bronsexuals do if the Lakers win the championship and AD is named Finals MVP?

They'll have to do a whole lot of goalpost shifting, flip-flopping and mental gymnastics after all the sh*t talking about Kobe's first 3 rings with Shaq and about Curry only having 1 Finals MVP for his 4 rings.

Not to mention... Jordan dickriders will forever bring up the fact that MJ was Finals MVP for ALL SIX of his championships...

:lebronamazed::lebroncry:

[ArbitraryWater]

more RS MVP shares, more indicative of best player :rockon:

[Full Court]

Mental gymnastics and goalpost shifting are what they already do anyway. It'll just be more of the same. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Damn, people are really shook after last night, already preemptively using damage control for a potential event that's still THREE rounds away :lol

AD SHOULD be FMVP over LeBron, he's 29, LeBron's 38. The fact you think this should be construed as some negative against him just shows he's held to legitimately unprecedented standards. I can assure you 38 year old Jordan wouldn't be winning FMVP over a superstar at his peak either.

[tpols]

Damn, people are really shook after last night, already preemptively using damage control for a potential event that's still THREE rounds away :lol

AD SHOULD be FMVP over LeBron, he's 29, LeBron's 38. The fact you think this should be construed as some negative against him just shows he's held to legitimately unprecedented standards. I can assure you 38 year old Jordan wouldn't be winning FMVP over a superstar at his peak either.

Nah not really because you guys treated kobe like shit for not winning it when he was almost a teenager and shaq was a grown 30 year old man.

[DMAVS41]

Nah not really because you guys treated kobe like shit for not winning it when he was almost a teenager and shaq was a grown 30 year old man.

No, nobody actually did that. You just think it was "hate" to not give Kobe as much credit as Shaq for those early titles because you are/were a delusional Kobe fan.

Also, Kobe was 21 and in his 4th season in 2000 when they won their first ring. Kobe's playoff averages were 21/5/4 (52% TS) with finals averages of 16/5/4 (41% TS)

It will be interesting to see if Lebron puts up similar production and wins the title...will you want to give him as much credit as you wanted Kobe to get for his 00 ring?

We all know the answer...you would be on here 24/7 laughing at Lebron if he won the title averaging 16 points per game on horrible efficiency. And that, my friend, is an actual double standard...

[RRR3]

Kobetards are apparently too stupid to realize they’ll lose the only argument for Kobe they have if this happens :lol

Not that he has had an argument in years.

[tpols]

No, nobody actually did that.


:biggums:

Yes they absolutely did. Kobe had superstar production for two of those rings and people used to just say he was carried by shaq. What planet are you living on?



will you want to give him as much credit as you wanted Kobe to get for his 00 ring?

That's about what he would deserve. Which most people said for Kobe meant nothing for his individual legacy.

[DMAVS41]

:biggums:

Yes they absolutely did. Kobe had superstar production for two of those rings and people used to just say he was carried by shaq. What planet are you living on?




That's about what he would deserve. Which most people said for Kobe meant nothing for his individual legacy.

He was carried by Shaq at times. Shaq was clearly a better and more valuable player....that was the rational and objective position. Of course there were haters, like you, that wanted 0 credit...but again, that is you...that is what you do with Lebron. Arguing nonsense about all the time.

Yes, Kobe had superstar production overall...but so did a lot of other superstars...and when Kobe can shoot 49% TS for a series like he did in 02 against an elite Kings team...and still win...people are going to rightly note that. This is what Kobe fans don't understand. If he literally played at his same level from 00 through 02 in those series...he's at most winning 1 title even with very good help historically. He needed peak Shaq to win 2 of those titles.

He was simply not good enough in 00 and in 02...his performance in the Kings series wasn't awful, but wasn't nearly good enough to win without an all-time great at his side...and even then it would have likely not happened. You swap out Shaq for KG and the Lakers probably lose in 5 or 6.

Again, these were the correct opinions at the time...and no amount of nonsense from you is going to change it 20 years later.

[tpols]

I've always maintained there are superstar rings, All Star rings, and then role player rings.

Kobe in the 2001 and 2002 playoffs was a superstar NBA player. You cherry picking one series doesn't change what he did in those runs.

Kobe in 2000 was a lesser All Star / All NBA caliber player which is still really good but matters less in GOAT debates against guys who have handfuls of superstar rings. You again though cherry picked a series where he broke his ankle and had to exit games which affected averages tremendously. Again.... extremely disingenuous take but ill let it slide.

The overall point is if LeBron wins playing how he looked in that grizz series all playoffs long... that's a 2nd degree ring just like 2000 Kobe.

So they would be tied in career results. 4 superstar rings a piece and one All Star / All NBA ring. But Kobe didn't need to team hop with nearly as much talent to win so we'd still have to give him the slight edge. :pimp:

[DMAVS41]

I've always maintained there are superstar rings, All Star rings, and then role player rings.

Kobe in 2001 and 2002 was a superstar NBA player. You cherry picking one series doesn't change what he did in those runs.

Kobe in 2000 was a lesser All Star / All NBA caliber player which is still really good but matters less in GOAT debates against guys who have handfuls of superstar rings. You again though cherry picked a series where he broke his ankle and had to exit games which affected averages tremendously. Again.... extremely disingenuous take but ill let it slide.

The overall point is if LeBron wins playing how he looked in that grizz series all playoffs long... that's a 2nd degree ring just like 2000 Kobe.

So they would be tied in career results. 4 superstar rings a piece and one All Star / All NBA ring. But Kobe didn't need to team hop with nearly as much talent to win so we'd still have to give him the slight edge. :pimp:

It isn't cherry picking when the difference in winning/losing the title comes down to having one of the 10 best players of all-time at his peak to pick up the slack. Getting hurt doesn't somehow make you better. Kobe's contribution to that series was what it was...and they still won...if he had less help...they don't win...what is confusing about this? This was and remains the only rational position when you aren't the clear cut best player on the team...making a huge deal out of winning when you have stacked the deck...like Kobe/Shaq...or Lebron/Wade/Bosh...or Durant/Curry/Klay/Dray...it just doesn't mean as much.

We already knew/know all those guys are great...it is about how great...and you don't learn much about Kobe in 02 when he can still win a title playing no better than a bunch of other stars were capable of back then. Same thing if Lebron had won in 11...was it really supposed to mean something if he played like ass and still won because Wade/Bosh were so good to pick up the slack? Of course not...everyone actually knows this shit...they just over-rate things that help them argue for their favorite player.

This is why people like you always clung to titles, but now really can't because of how certain things have played out.

I do agree that Lebron winning a ring playing like he currently is...is less valuable than a Kobe 09 ring or a Lebron 13 ring. Again though...literally everyone already bakes that in...

And, in case you aren't aware, nobody debates Lebron vs Kobe anymore...that shit ended years ago...Lebron deserves to be known as a tier or two higher player/career.

[RRR3]

It isn't cherry picking when the difference in winning/losing the title comes down to having one of the 10 best players of all-time at his peak to pick up the slack. Getting hurt doesn't somehow make you better. Kobe's contribution to that series was what it was...and they still won...if he had less help...they don't win...what is confusing about this?

This is why people like you always clung to titles, but now really can't because of how certain things have played out.

I do agree that Lebron winning a ring playing like he currently is...is less valuable than a Kobe 09 ring or a Lebron 13 ring. Again though...literally everyone already bakes that in...

And, in case you aren't aware, nobody debates Lebron vs Kobe anymore...that shit ended years ago...Lebron deserves to be known as a tier or two higher player/career.
5 RANGZ!!!!! It’s all that have left :lol

Also hilarious we just count 2002 for Kobe when that was confirmed as being rigged for the Lakers

[tpols]

Nah... one thing I never do is hate on somebody for getting truly injured. If somebody broke Lebrons ankle... I wouldn't use his averages in that series to define his level as a player. That's scumbag reasoning.

In 2000 the Blazers were by far the Lakers toughest competition and Kobe came through very well there when shaq was having a down series for his standards. Indiana was a huge underdog and formality.

[ShawkFactory]

What will Bronsexuals do if the Lakers win the championship and AD is named Finals MVP?

They'll have to do a whole lot of goalpost shifting, flip-flopping and mental gymnastics after all the sh*t talking about Kobe's first 3 rings with Shaq and about Curry only having 1 Finals MVP for his 4 rings.

Not to mention... Jordan dickriders will forever bring up the fact that MJ was Finals MVP for ALL SIX of his championships...

:lebronamazed::lebroncry:

It would be infinitely worse for you if he does win FMVP than it would be for Bron fans if the Lakers win and he doesn’t.

I’d wager you’d never post on here again if that happened.

[FKAri]

2023 and it's still Kobe stans vs LeBron stans on ISH.

[DMAVS41]

Nah... one thing I never do is hate on somebody for getting truly injured. If somebody broke Lebrons ankle... I wouldn't use his averages in that series to define his level as a player. That's scumbag reasoning.

In 2000 the Blazers were by far the Lakers toughest competition and Kobe came through very well there when shaq was having a down series for his standards. Indiana was a huge underdog and formality.

But nobody is doing that you clown. I am simply pointing out that the Lakers still won despite what Kobe produced in the 2000 finals. Again, you can't understand rational points because you are delusional Kobe stan...even to this day. And, no, it isn't a formality under normal conditions...it was only a formality because Shaq was on the team and capable of doing 38/17 without his 2nd guy playing at a good level.

You hear me say..."Kobe might not have won with KG instead of Shaq in 02"....and you translate that in your brain to me hating on Kobe saying he's not that good. That is on you. The reason why anyone ever would bring up what I say is because all people like you do...is starting going on about "5 rings"....

You hear someone say..."Kobe is the 12th best player ever"...and you translate that in your brain to someone hating on Kobe arguing he wasn't an all-time great. Again, that is on you.

Nobody every argued Kobe's level was what he did in the 00 finals or that he wasn't a superstar or that his Kings series was what he was always capable of. The problem, however, is people got sick of people like you ignoring the actual level of play and impact...in favor of arguments about rings while Kobe had some of the best circumstances in NBA history with peak Shaq and one of the best coaches ever at his side to pick him up when he wasn't playing well enough to win as the clear cut best player.

Then, people like you have the audacity to ring count against other players that played at a similar level...and would lose in 4 or 5 to teams because of their help.

Again, do you really need this shit explained to you in 2023?

[RRR3]

Crazy DMavs is one of the last old school serious posters still here.

[tpols]

But nobody is doing that.


Yes you did lol... you boiled Kobes level of impact in the 2000 ring down to a couple games where he was seriously injured to try and make some weird point. I'm not like that. If LeBron gets hurt and puts up middling production at some point? He still will get All Star / All NBA credit ring at least from me. Because that's his level right now in the playoffs which is still good obviously especially given his old age.

You're always bringing up odd hypotheticals. 2001 and on Kobe was basically at his peak. He could have easily won with garnett in the early 2000s given how dominant KG was back then. You can't just extrapolate Kobes results with Shaq to Garnett. For all we know kobe would've played even better with KGs unselfish nature, better discipline and much better defense. And not having to deal with a big fued like he had to with Shaq. Their chemistry would've been undeniably better.

And given that in 2010 Kobe won a ring with Pau while being clearly inferior to his 2001 capacity.... winning with prime KG would be easy by that measure.

Weirdo scenarios you pull up that backfire. :oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

LeBron being the leading scorer and assister of a championship team at age 38 would be DEVESTATING for his legacy.

Kobe at age 37 was a 17ppg on 35% STUD. His team won 17 games! If only LeBron could duplicate that he'd get my respect.

Great thread brother!

[ArbitraryWater]

2001 must have been the weakest ring by competition / weakest competition in NBA history


if bron had won a ring on such a fied, wed never hear the end of it.

[DMAVS41]

Yes you did lol... you boiled Kobes level of impact in the 2000 ring down to a couple games where he was seriously injured to try and make some weird point. I'm not like that. If LeBron gets hurt and puts up middling production at some point? He still will get All Star / All NBA credit ring at least from me. Because that's his level right now in the playoffs which is still good obviously especially given his old age.

You're always bringing up odd hypotheticals. 2001 and on Kobe was basically at his peak. He could have easily won with garnett in the early 2000s given how dominant KG was back then. You can't just extrapolate Kobes results with Shaq to Garnett. For all we know kobe would've played even better with KGs unselfish nature, better discipline and much better defense. And not having to deal with a big fued like he had to with Shaq. Their chemistry would've been undeniably better.

And given that in 2010 Kobe won a ring with Pau while being clearly inferior to his 2001 capacity.... winning with prime KG would be easy by that measure.

Weirdo scenarios you pull up that backfire. :oldlol:

No, I didn't. I simply said that Kobe, given how he played in 00, was not good enough to win a ring under normal conditions of help. At no point did I say Kobe in 00 was a 16/5/4 (41% TS) level player. Stop it.

The hypotheticals go both ways...which is why I prefer to just look at how Kobe actually played. Against the Kings in 02...as I said...he wasn't bad...but he wasn't great either...and I'm not sure how giving him worse help leads to the same or better results. Having said that, yes, anything is possible...but I don't value rings as much as you do...so it isn't a problem for me because I'm focused on level of play and impact. Whereas you....focus on rings...and only focus on rings because your favorite player has an inflated legacy because of circumstances outside his control. I get why you do it...I just think it is obviously a flawed view.

Sorry, the league was different in 02...Kobe with Pau in place of Shaq are drawing dead against the Kings. You are once again back to not understanding that the strength of the competition matters.

[tpols]

LeBron being the leading scorer and assister of a championship team at age 38 would be DEVESTATING for his legacy.

Kobe at age 37 was a 17ppg on 35% STUD. His team won 17 games! If only LeBron could duplicate that he'd get my respect.

Great thread brother!

Kobes 2nd leading scorer in 2016 was Jordan Clarkson. He obviously wasn't as good as lebron longevity wise or at those respective ages... but the comparison is just a joke given their huge gap in help.

[DMAVS41]

Kobes 2nd leading scorer in 2016 was Jordan Clarkson. He obviously wasn't as good as lebron longevity wise or at those respective ages... but the comparison is just a joke given their huge gap in help.

Cool...now apply that standard to the first 7 years of their careers...or consider how many titles Lebron won while being the clear 2nd best player on the team.

You want to call them "superstar rings"...but what you fail to consider is that the rings wouldn't exist under even very good circumstances. You, and your fellow stans, will never grasp that despite being a great player in the early 00's...Kobe was not good enough to win those rings without some of the best circumstances in NBA history.

And that isn't even a knock...outside of 00...the same is true for Shaq...a better player than Kobe.

You just take it is a knock because of your personal feelings.

[SouBeachTalents]

Cool...now apply that standard to the first 7 years of their careers...or consider how many titles Lebron won while being the clear 2nd best player on the team.
Oh, he's gonna claim that was the case in 2020 :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

2002 Kobe was doing 26.6 ppg on 24.1 FGA / 41.8% shooting through the West, and his 3P shooting and FT shooting was abysmal.

Besides the fact the WCF were fixed, Kobe woudnt be making the finals as first option in most other years historicay if not all. Youd have to find exceptions, not the normal circumstance.

[tpols]

Kobe with Pau in place of Shaq are drawing dead against the Kings


I thought he was playing with prime KG... now it's Pau? We all know Kobe could never win with Pau anyways. He'd be "drawing dead" trying to do that.

:oldlol:

This is why I used to call you the carousel. You're always switching off the argument to another tangent. Next thing you know you'll be bringing Wiggins into this somehow.

[DMAVS41]

I thought he was playing with prime KG... now it's Pau? We all know Kobe could never win with Pau anyways. He'd be "drawing dead" trying to do that.

:oldlol:

This is why I used to call you the carousel. You're always switching off the argument to another tangent. Next thing you know you'll be bringing Wiggins into this somehow.

You brought up Pau...and I was simply reminding you of that thing called competition that happens to matter.

Prime KG...yes, I think they would lose, but anything is possible....as I said.

And to get really tough on you...what if Shaq happened to play for a team with equal help to Kobe. Why would Kobe's team win when Shaq was clearly better back then?

You see? This is why your "rings" view is so flawed and why people like you and Durant fans will never be able to grasp how certain people feel about their favorite players. You have Durant fans that legit think he should be getting huge legacy boosts from his time on the Warriors.

I saw someone in the Dirk v. Durant thread list off the accolades and achievements like it means something.

Durant joining the Warriors would have been like if in 05...Dirk joined up with a healthy Wade, Ray Allen, Iggy, and Tyson Chandler...hell, the Warriors still might have been more stacked.

You know how dumb that is...and what you are doing with Kobe and his rings with Shaq is similar...you are expecting people to value them as highly as others...and you'd never do that with other players. Hell, you don't even value Lebron's rings in Miami/Cavs the same and he was the best player on those teams.

[red1]

would tie kobe in rings with double the finals MVPs



AD winning finals MVP means another ring for the GOAT :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

I thought he was playing with prime KG... now it's Pau? We all know Kobe could never win with Pau anyways. He'd be "drawing dead" trying to do that.

:oldlol:

This is why I used to call you the carousel. You're always switching off the argument to another tangent. Next thing you know you'll be bringing Wiggins into this somehow.


tbh from an outsiders perspective, it just looks like you applying mental gymnastics.

[ArbitraryWater]

So they would be tied in career results. 4 superstar rings a piece and one All Star / All NBA ring. But Kobe didn't need to team hop with nearly as much talent to win so we'd still have to give him the slight edge. :pimp:

and in reality, lebron would have 5 FMVPs and 5 rings as the man to Kobes 2.

notice how you have to add the emojis to kind of add a hint of sarcasm, because even you would feel shame proclaiming this stone faced?

[8Ball]

What will Bronsexuals do if the Lakers win the championship and AD is named Finals MVP?

They'll have to do a whole lot of goalpost shifting, flip-flopping and mental gymnastics after all the sh*t talking about Kobe's first 3 rings with Shaq and about Curry only having 1 Finals MVP for his 4 rings.

Not to mention... Jordan dickriders will forever bring up the fact that MJ was Finals MVP for ALL SIX of his championships...

:lebronamazed::lebroncry:

Lmfao this zombie also had a sleepless night and this is all the trash you can muster?

Weak.

[tpols]

You brought up Pau...and I was simply reminding you of that thing called competition that happens to matter.

Prime KG...yes, I think they would lose, but anything is possible....as I said.


If you think prime peak Kobe is losing with prime KG you're dumber than I thought. KG damn near took scrubs to the Finals... him and Kobe would be one of the sickest duos ever. You just don't appreciate (or know) basketball at that point.

[red1]

dmavs completely right once again.


great to have you back for the playoffs tpols. GOAT james STILL doing his thing.

[ArbitraryWater]

If you think prime peak Kobe is losing with prime KG you're dumber than I thought. KG damn near took scrubs to the Finals... him and Kobe would be one of the sickest duos ever. You just don't appreciate (or know) bsketball at that point.

youre not applying any nuance.

it woud absoutely be questionabe if 2002 kobe and 2002 kg win a chip.

they definitey dont in 2002. consider how much room for error they had against the kings, and then switch shaq for kg and ask yoursef if kg coud fill the gap of that room for error.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Kobes 2nd leading scorer in 2016 was Jordan Clarkson. He obviously wasn't as good as lebron longevity wise or at those respective ages... but the comparison is just a joke given their huge gap in help.

You're right, rhe comparison is a joke because the gap between them is so incredibly massive.

He literally doubled Kobes ppg on far greater efficiency while being the main playmaker too. Kobe was literally the worst player in the league and LeBron still one of the best.

I know it hurts.

[DMAVS41]

If you think prime peak Kobe is losing with prime KG you're dumber than I thought. KG damn near took scrubs to the Finals... him and Kobe would be one of the sickest duos ever. You just don't appreciate basketball at that point.

Dude...go through the years....

00 - Drawing dead...not good enough
01 - Probably win given how weak competition was, but depends on what team Shaq is on and nothing is certain
02 - I'd favor a loss...KG wasn't as good as Shaq and the 02 Kings were elite
03 - Loss
04 - Loss...not sure how the hell KG is making Kobe play better against the Pistons

One title likely...maybe 2, but I doubt 2.

[tpols]

:roll:

"Probably win" Nice bro. There you go. Coming back to reality. But even then you still had an excuse.

The problem you've always had in your hypotheticals is you directly transpose performances in one context to another when the circumstances could dictate totally different results. 2004 is probably the perfect example. That was the height of the Shaq Kobe fued and the Pistons used it to their advantage confirmed by Chauncey Billups interviews. Does a fued exist between Garnett and Kobe? Almost certainly not. And 2004 KG was an absolute animal. With the right chemistry of course they could have won it.

Let's say kobe and garnett lose in 2002 and 2000... Does that mean they aren't as tired and burnt out as Kobe and Shaq were coming off a 3peat and have a much better shot in 2003? Again... you extrapolate direct results from competing circumstances that would dictate a different outcome.

It's like arguing with a lower level intelligence here. You need to research the butterfly effect and realize how even a small change in situation can produce wildly different results across the board. But switching up from KG to Shaq isn't even a small change. It's a huge one with a wide variety of implications.

[DMAVS41]

:roll:

"Probably win" Nice bro. There you go. Coming back to reality. But even then you still had an excuse.

The problem you've always had in your hypotheticals is you directly transpose performances in one context to another when the circumstances could dictate totally different results. 2004 is probably the perfect example. That was the height of the Shaq Kobe fued and the Pistons used it to their advantage confirmed by Chauncey Billups interviews. Does a fued exist between Garnett and Kobe? Almost certainly not. And 2004 KG was an absolute animal. With the right chemistry of course they could have won it. Let's say they lose in 2002... Does that mean they aren't as tired and burnt out as Kobe and Shaq were coming off a 3peat? Again... you extrapolate direct results from competing circumstances that would dictate a different outcome. I

It's like arguing with a lower level intelligence here. You need to research the butterfly effect and realize how even a small change in situation can produce wildly different results across the board. But switching up from KG to Shaq isn't even a small change. It's a huge one with a wide variety of implications.

You can only go off of how players played...you can't start arguing that Kobe is all of a sudden just start to play better because you think so. You know what? He could also play worse.

So, sorry if you don't like it...but Kobe simply did not play well enough to win a title with a player like KG in 00, 02, 03, and 04. His 00 finals isn't close to good enough, his inefficiency in the 02 Kings series would have cost them, he couldn't beat the Spurs in 03 with Shaq doing 25/14/4, and we all know about his dreadful 04 finals in which we was awful.

That is what happened...that is how he played...and he managed to win 3 rings in the time because, yes, he was a great player...but he was a great player that had ****ing peak Shaq on his team...rather than having to play against him.

Again, sorry if you don't like how Kobe performed...but it is what is is.

And, again, if you applied the same charitable thinking to all players, I really wouldn't have much of a problem with you...but you don't do that at all...because if you did...you'd have to focus on actual level of play and impact. And you won't do that because then you have to realize that 3 rings sounds a lot better than describing Kobe's actual impact in his first 8 years of his career.

What makes it even more sad is that the Lebron vs Kobe stuff is over. You've lost the debate...and you are still clinging to hoping that Lebron doesn't win while going on 40 years old while still being one of the best players in the league...already preparing yourself to diminish what an insane accomplishment it would be to play his role on a title winning team this late in his career on a good, but hardly all-time loaded team.

You probably go to bed each night worrying what life might be like in a month...which is just so sad because it is already your worst case scenario...everyone already ranks Lebron higher...it isn't even close for most.

[elementally morale]

tbh from an outsiders perspective, it just looks like you applying mental gymnastics.

The thing tpols doesn't seem to get even after all these years, I think, is the obvious fact that something or somebody doesn't have to be the best for you to like it or him/her the most. Favorite movies, books, music, your friends, children, close family... and yes, athletes. You may like someone the most even if he is not the best or not top 5, 10, whatever. You liking him needs no validation. The best one for you is the best one for you, period.

As for me, when Kobe died I was in shock for 2-3 days and cried a lot. And I was like 45-46 at the time. I asked myself several times why him dying had the effect on me it did. I finally realized that he was the 1st player whose career I've seen in its entirety. So when Kobe died, a big piece of me died, too. (Jordan said the same thing about hiim and it is a real though surreal experience.) I guess 'my youth' ended in those few days after his death (as I was 23 when Kobe came into the league.)

At any rate: ranking people across eras is not my cup of tea. However, I'm absoutely sure I've seen 5 basketball players 'live' who were better players than Kobe. Still, Kobe was my favorite. Why? Cause I liked his flaws, too. He was a prick lots of the time... and it entertained me. At other times he was just being great. Post NBA was good, too.

[1987_Lakers]

The thing tpols doesn't seem to get even after all these years, I think, it the obvious fact that something or somebody doesn't have to be the best for you to like it or him/here the most. Favorite movies, books, musis, your friends, children, close family... and yes, athletes. You may like someone the most even if he is not the best or not top 5, 10, whatever. You liking him needs no validation.

As for me, when Kobe died I was in shock for 2-3 days and cried a lot. And I was like 45-46 at the time. I asked myself several times why him dying had the effect on me it did. I finally realized that he was the 1st player whose career I've seen in its entirety. So when Kobe died, a big piece of me died, too. (Jordan said the same thing about hiim and it is a real though surreal experience.) I guess 'my youth' ended in those few days after his death (as I was 23 when Kobe came into the league.)

At any rate: ranking people across eras is not my cup of tea. However, I'm absoutely sure I've seen 5 basketball players 'live' who were better players than Kobe. Still, Kobe was my favorite. Why? Cause I liked his flaws, too. He was a prick lots of the time... and it entertained me. At other times he was just being great. Post NBA was good, too.

Meanwhile, we had that psycho Kobe fan Kenny saying he was happy Kobe died because it would mean a boost in legacy.

[tpols]

You can only go off of how players played..


No you can't when the situations are totally different. :oldlol:

You can't just transpose a players averages or performances from one situation DIRECTLY to a totally different situation. Everything from their chemistry, win total, seeding, matchups, and more would be different.

I honestly can't believe you're this daft. It's amazing.

[DMAVS41]

No you can't when the situations are totally different. :oldlol:

You can't just transpose a players averages or performances from one situation DIRECTLY to a totally different situation. Everything from their chemistry, win total, seeding, matchups, and more would be different.

I honestly can't believe you're this daft. It's amazing.

No, that is what you have to do because we have no idea if said player is going to play worse or better you ****ing mental midget.

One could easily argue that without Shaq...Kobe sees even more defensive attention and because he was so selfish at times...takes even more bad shots and plays worse. You follow?

I can't believe you fail to grasp this. It's unreal...

The Kobe stan logic is the most unreal thing I've ever witnessed...they want him to lose Shaq for a worse player...and they argue not only that Kobe wins just as much...but that he's going to play better with worse help.

Neat idea...tell us more.

[tpols]

No, that is what you have to do because we have no idea if said player is going to play worse or better you ****ing mental midget.

One could easily argue that without Shaq...Kobe sees even more defensive attention and because he was so selfish at times...takes even more bad shots and plays worse. You follow?

I can't believe you fail to grasp this. It's unreal...

The Kobe stan logic is the most unreal thing I've ever witnessed...they want him to lose Shaq for a worse player...and they argue not only that Kobe wins just as much...but that he's going to play better with worse help.

Neat idea...tell us more.

Kobe saw max defensive attention after Shaq left and lit the league up. :lol

What are you talking about?

That's an argument that's long gone. You gotta come with something stronger than that. I can't believe you even tried pulling that argument.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe saw max defensive attention after Shaq left and lit the league up. :lol

What are you talking about?

That's an argument that's long gone. You gotta come with something stronger than that. I can't believe you even tried pulling that argument.

He missed the playoffs in 05. Lost in the first round in 06 and 07...lost in 08. He won 2 titles with the best superstar help in the league at the time in 09/10.

There was also a rules change in 05 that made offense much easier...again, you should know these things.

Again, arguing that Kobe would play better than he did while getting worse help is not logical. That is why you go off of what guys did as the baseline....you don't just start assuming that Kobe is going to start shooting 60% TS against the Kings instead of 49%....

And this is the Kobe stan method. Ignore actual performance and then argue some absurd hypothetical about him playing better in worse conditions...then accuse others of simply noting how lucky he was to have 8 years with Shaq to start his career got get 3 titles.

Regardless...you think he'd play better...I think he'd play worse. Know how to settle it? How about just going off how the ****ing guy actually played...I know it is a crazy idea...but we could actually just use what happened. I know it is tough for you...but try to think for a minute...we could just actually go off what happened in reality.

****ing clown.

[tpols]

Superstar help in 2009 and 2010? If Pau and Odom were superstars what does that make 2004 KG?

Oh wait... wasn't just that... rule changes too!

:roll:

How many excuses do you have bro?

[DMAVS41]

Superstar help in 2009 and 2010? If Pau and Odom were superstars what does that make 2004 KG?

Oh wait... wasn't just that... rule changes too!

:roll:

How many excuses do you have bro?

Reading comprehension failure. I said the best help for a superstar in those years. Kobe being the superstar.

Try to think bro.

Yes, if you are going to start brining up numbers after 04...it needs to be mentioned that the entire game changed to make it easier on wing players. The fact that you wouldn't just immediately acknowledge that shows how biased you are....because I know you would use it against players you don't like.

[1987_Lakers]

Superstar help in 2009 and 2010? If Pau and Odom were superstars what does that make 2004 KG?

Oh wait... wasn't just that... rule changes too!

:roll:

How many excuses do you have bro?

Pretty sure he means best help a superstar had at that time.

[Nb1]

I want the ring, don't care who wins FMVP. Could aswell be Austin Reeves as long as we win the chip. But it's gonna be damn hard. When i look at the next round and potentially the Warriors, it's a nightmare match up for us. We would need AD to go completely off and Bron to recover from his injury which he can't since his ankle needs surgery.

I don't even know who i'd give the edge regarding the best player on the team in the series so far. I think i'd still go with AD, but AD disappeared in 2 of 5 games and Rui and Reeves were the top dogs in 2 games (D'LO last one too and hit 2 important shots 2 games ago) and Lebron in the other. Right now it's even and more a team effort. In any case, the only way we can win is like this, a balanced attack and everyone locking in on defense.

[1987_Lakers]

I want the ring, don't care who wins FMVP. Could aswell be Austin Reeves as long as we win the chip. But it's gonna be damn hard. When i look at the next round and potentially the Warriors, it's a nightmare match up for us. We would need AD to go completely off and Bron to recover from his injury which he can't since his ankle needs surgery.

This obsession with FMVP in the last 20 years or so is kinda funny to see.

You think people were roasting Bill Russell when Jerry West won it in '69? Or Magic when James Worthy won it in '88? Bird in '81 when Maxwell won it?

In the end, it's a fun thing to use against a certain player if they didn't win it if you want to troll someone, but I don't see it as a huge achievement considering some players who won it were obviously not the best overall player.

[DMAVS41]

This obsession with FMVP in the last 20 years or so is kinda funny to see.

You think people were roasting Bill Russell when Jerry West won it in '69? Or Magic when James Worthy won it in '88? Bird in '81 when Maxwell won it?

In the end, it's a fun thing to use against a certain player if they didn't win it if you want to troll someone, but I don't see it as a huge achievement winning it.

Especially when another player is also really good. Like when Parker won it over Duncan or Iggy over Curry. We all know who the best players on those teams were.

[tpols]

I said the best help for a superstar in those years


No you didn't. You said this:


He won 2 titles with the best superstar help in the league at the time in 09/10.



But regardless of semantics... you saying prime KG and prime Kobe would win at best 1 ring is just... completely showing your lack of basketball knowledge. If Kobe won 2 rings with a much inferior player and team why would he win less with peak MVP Garnett?

It's just a dumb take.

And then autistically transposing averages in totally different circumstances...

Kobe shot on 49TS in that one series with Shaq so he will shoot EXACTLY 49TS with Kevin Garnett. Forget the million changing variables and chemistry difference. He will shoot and produce exactly the same in every way down to the decimal. :hammerhead:

[tpols]

This obsession with FMVP in the last 20 years or so is kinda funny to see.

You think people were roasting Bill Russell when Jerry West won it in '69? Or Magic when James Worthy won it in '88? Bird in '81 when Maxwell won it?

In the end, it's a fun thing to use against a certain player if they didn't win it if you want to troll someone, but I don't see it as a huge achievement considering some players who won it were obviously not the best overall player.

I think what OP is getting at is you dmavs and others roasted Kobe plenty of times for not winning FMVP.

Even when he averaged 29/7/6 on 116 ORTG with All NBA defense... Kobe got roasted. And said he could never win without Shaq. Wins with Pau... but now could never win with prime KG.

OP is just pointing out the hypocrisy. Now FMVPs don't matter I guess.

[Full Court]

This obsession with FMVP in the last 20 years or so is kinda funny to see.

You think people were roasting Bill Russell when Jerry West won it in '69? Or Magic when James Worthy won it in '88? Bird in '81 when Maxwell won it?

In the end, it's a fun thing to use against a certain player if they didn't win it if you want to troll someone, but I don't see it as a huge achievement considering some players who won it were obviously not the best overall player.

FMVP is the pinnacle achievement in the sport.

You're only arguing against it because your hero only has 4 of them out of 10 tries.

And here's a fun bit of fact for you, being the "historian" you are: the FMVP award is called the Bill Russell trophy. :lol

You tell us - what were people on ISH saying in '69 when West won FMVP? :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

And here's a fun bit of fact for you, being the "historian" you are: the FMVP award is called the Bill Russell trophy. :lol

A fun fact? That is something everyone here already knows.

Lol at stating this and acting like you came up with some nugget info.

[8Ball]

FMVP is the pinnacle achievement in the sport.

You're only arguing against it because your hero only has 4 of them out of 10 tries.

And here's a fun bit of fact for you, being the "historian" you are: the FMVP award is called the Bill Russell trophy. :lol

You tell us - what were people on ISH saying in '69 when West won FMVP? :roll:

Wrong.

Cedric Maxwell won FMVP and no one cares who he is.

All time leading scorer in the pinnacle achievement in the sport. There is only 1.

[8Ball]

A fun fact? That is something everyone here already knows.

Lol at stating this and acting like you came up with some nugget info.

He's just sharing information he learned yesterday in high school. Be nicer to him.

[ShawkFactory]

No you didn't. You said this:




But regardless of semantics... you saying prime KG and prime Kobe would win at best 1 ring is just... completely showing your lack of basketball knowledge. If Kobe won 2 rings with a much inferior player and team why would he win less with peak MVP Garnett?

It's just a dumb take.

And then autistically transposing averages in totally different circumstances...

Kobe shot on 49TS in that one series with Shaq so he will shoot EXACTLY 49TS with Kevin Garnett. Forget the million changing variables and chemistry difference. He will shoot and produce exactly the same in every way down to the decimal. :hammerhead:

It's not a semantics thing it's you misunderstanding what he was saying, perhaps due to confusing wording. In this instance it changes the argument, so chalking it up to semantics doesn't work.

As for the bold, I think he's saying that regarding the years 2000-2002. Not in general.

[8Ball]

I hope AD wins the next 3 FMVP so we can get this 3 peat started.

[DMAVS41]

No you didn't. You said this:




But regardless of semantics... you saying prime KG and prime Kobe would win at best 1 ring is just... completely showing your lack of basketball knowledge. If Kobe won 2 rings with a much inferior player and team why would he win less with peak MVP Garnett?

It's just a dumb take.

And then autistically transposing averages in totally different circumstances...

Kobe shot on 49TS in that one series with Shaq so he will shoot EXACTLY 49TS with Kevin Garnett. Forget the million changing variables and chemistry difference. He will shoot and produce exactly the same in every way down to the decimal. :hammerhead:

I’m talking 00 through 04.

What years are they winning outside of 01?

And, again, you ****ing clown… there is no reason to think it is more likely Kobe plays better without Shaq… so you simply go with how he actually played.

So, what years is he winning as we know 00 isn’t possible.

[DMAVS41]

I think what OP is getting at is you dmavs and others roasted Kobe plenty of times for not winning FMVP.

Even when he averaged 29/7/6 on 116 ORTG with All NBA defense... Kobe got roasted. And said he could never win without Shaq. Wins with Pau... but now could never win with prime KG.

OP is just pointing out the hypocrisy. Now FMVPs don't matter I guess.

Why lie? I said he would win in 01, but I think that would be the only year from 00 through 04.

And you know I’m right, which is why your argument is now that Kobe would play better and win as much with a player worse than Shaq most years in question.

Makes no sense.

Kobe did 26/5/5 52% TS in the playoffs from 00-04

[NBAGOAT]

Its about time Ad became the best player on the team

[SouBeachTalents]

FMVP is the pinnacle achievement in the sport.

You're only arguing against it because your hero only has 4 of them out of 10 tries.

And here's a fun bit of fact for you, being the "historian" you are: the FMVP award is called the Bill Russell trophy. :lol

You tell us - what were people on ISH saying in '69 when West won FMVP? :roll:
It's the pinnacle achievement in the sport, yet the guy with the 2nd most all time, one of only two players to ever win 4, is the biggest choker of all time and not even top 10? Yeah, that makes sense :lol

[3ba11]

It's the pinnacle achievement in the sport, yet the guy with the 2nd most all time, one of only two players to ever win 4, is the biggest choker of all time and not even top 10? Yeah, that makes sense :lol


The reason that many people don't respect Lebron's rings is because he manufactured extra chances, aka Finals trips by taking the top 3 first options in the conference and putting them on 1 team (the "decision"), while other guys don't get all those chances because they're stuck playing with Jamal Murray or Desmond Bane... It requires all-time strategic capacity and basketball mastery of chemistry to win with those guys.

[ShawkFactory]

The reason that many people don't respect Lebron's rings is because he manufactured extra chances, aka Finals trips by taking the top 3 first options in the conference and putting them on 1 team (the "decision"), while other guys don't get all those chances because they're stuck playing with Jamal Murray or Desmond Bane... It requires all-time strategic mastery and chemistry to win with those guys.

Mo Williams.

[8Ball]

It's the pinnacle achievement in the sport, yet the guy with the 2nd most all time, one of only two players to ever win 4, is the biggest choker of all time and not even top 10? Yeah, that makes sense :lol

2nd most FMVP won = top 13 yet its the pinnacle achievement in the sport for that retard.

:roll:

[Lakers Legend#32]

The Lakers winning is all that matters.

[3ba11]

Mo Williams.


Dirk won with Jason Terry and worse team defense:



09' Mo Williams..... 17/3/4 on 59 TS.... 17.2 PER... 2.3 bpm... 0.165 ws/48... 3.1 vorp... #3 team defense
11' Jason Terry...,.. 16/2/4 on 55 TS.... 15.8 PER... 0.9 bpm... 0.100 ws/48... 1.9 vorp... #8 team defense


Ultimately, Jordan beat Lebron to titles despite starting with a worse team on both sides of the ball - this includes the #19 defense in 1990 compared to top 5 for the 06-10' Cavs, and worse offensive help (Pippen had worse PPG, efficiency PER or WS than all-stars Zydrunas/Mo or the Hughes/Jamison acquisitions).

[tpols]

Its about time Ad became the best player on the team

Leading the playoffs in points on absurd efficiency while also being the best defensive player en route to a title wasn't good enough?

What do you guys expect of AD?

[ShawkFactory]

Dirk won with Jason Terry and worse team defense:



09' Mo Williams..... 17/3/4 on 59 TS.... 17.2 PER... 2.3 bpm... 0.165 ws/48... 3.1 vorp... #3 team defense
11' Jason Terry...,.. 16/2/4 on 55 TS.... 15.8 PER... 0.9 bpm... 0.100 ws/48... 1.9 vorp... #8 team defense


Ultimately, Jordan beat Lebron to titles despite starting with a worse team on both sides of the ball - this includes the #19 defense in 1990 compared to top 5 for the 06-10' Cavs, and worse offensive help (Pippen had worse PPG, efficiency PER or WS than all-stars Zydrunas/Mo or the Hughes/Jamison acquisitions).

:lol

[AussieSteve]

It's obvious that LeBron haters will have a far harder time dealing if LeBron wins FMVP than his stan's will have dealing if AD wins it.

AD should win it if the Lakers go all the way

[IllegalD]

Damn, people are really shook after last night, already preemptively using damage control for a potential event that's still THREE rounds away :lol

AD SHOULD be FMVP over LeBron, he's 29, LeBron's 38. The fact you think this should be construed as some negative against him just shows he's held to legitimately unprecedented standards. I can assure you 38 year old Jordan wouldn't be winning FMVP over a superstar at his peak either.

Kareem won Finals MVP at age 38 in 1985. And that's with PRIME Magic and James Worthy on his team. #NOEXCUSES

:kobe:

[John8204]

What a terrible thread....just so I understand the logic if the lowest seed in NBA history wins a ring hypothetically how will Lebron fans react to AD hypothetically winning FMVP.

Are we talking about the same AD who is never consistent? Russell is the hot hand right now he has a better shot at FMVP if the Lakers make it to the finals and win it all.

Even if the Lakers make the finals and get swept they likely beat two super teams (Warriors, and Suns) to even get there...as a seven seed.

[IllegalD]

What a terrible thread....just so I understand the logic if the lowest seed in NBA history wins a ring hypothetically how will Lebron fans react to AD hypothetically winning FMVP.

Are we talking about the same AD who is never consistent? Russell is the hot hand right now he has a better shot at FMVP if the Lakers make it to the finals and win it all.

Even if the Lakers make the finals and get swept they likely beat two super teams (Warriors, and Suns) to even get there...as a seven seed.

We're starting to see it already. Dude is literally praying that AD sh*ts the bed. AD has actually been extremely DOMINANT in the playoffs throughout his entire career when he DOES play.

[NBAGOAT]

Leading the playoffs in points on absurd efficiency while also being the best defensive player en route to a title wasn't good enough?

What do you guys expect of AD?

well that was enough though there was debate about who was better because lebron was still great. Lebron was going slowly decline the next few seasons however(he has) but AD's regular seasons in 21,22 werent up to his standards and he was injury prone. He was great this year tbf but it shouldve started by 21.

[AlternativeAcc.]

The reason that many people don't respect Lebron's rings is because he manufactured extra chances, aka Finals trips by taking the top 3 first options in the conference and putting them on 1 team (the "decision"), while other guys don't get all those chances because they're stuck playing with Jamal Murray or Desmond Bane... It requires all-time strategic capacity and basketball mastery of chemistry to win with those guys.

The best teams of all time have near 20ppg sidekicks and amazing role players. The historical record is very clear. The only exceptions are Lakers and Durant led Warriors

72 Lakers... 87 Lakers... 83 Sixers... 86 Celtics.... Bulls dynasty... Celtics dynasty

None of them had 2 high scoring guys. So pretending that because LeBron has had high scoring 2nd options that he had "more help" is just historically false. That's not how the game works. You need a versatile 2nd option and amazing role players. Thats the formula and it always has been.

[Full Court]

It's the pinnacle achievement in the sport, yet the guy with the 2nd most all time, one of only two players to ever win 4, is the biggest choker of all time and not even top 10? Yeah, that makes sense :lol

2020 was the biggest asterisk of all time.

And I've been consistent that Lebron is top ten. You should pay more attention.







Although he's in danger of Curry knocking him out of it....


And just because he DIDN'T choke 4 times in a 20 year career doesn't erase his 40+ post season choke jobs. When did Jordan ever pull a choke job like 2011? Oh, that's right. He didn't.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk won with Jason Terry and worse team defense:



09' Mo Williams..... 17/3/4 on 59 TS.... 17.2 PER... 2.3 bpm... 0.165 ws/48... 3.1 vorp... #3 team defense
11' Jason Terry...,.. 16/2/4 on 55 TS.... 15.8 PER... 0.9 bpm... 0.100 ws/48... 1.9 vorp... #8 team defense


Ultimately, Jordan beat Lebron to titles despite starting with a worse team on both sides of the ball - this includes the #19 defense in 1990 compared to top 5 for the 06-10' Cavs, and worse offensive help (Pippen had worse PPG, efficiency PER or WS than all-stars Zydrunas/Mo or the Hughes/Jamison acquisitions).

As much as I love someone pointing how Jason Terry was actually not that good. Why are you posting regular season stats?

In fairness to all and especially Terry, he was quite good in the playoffs in 11.

He did 18/2/3 (60% TS) on was super clutch.

I agree he was a Mo Williams level player, but Terry played extremely well in the playoffs in 11.

[John8204]

And just because he DIDN'T choke 4 times in a 20 year career doesn't erase his 40+ post season choke jobs. When did Jordan ever pull a choke job like 2011? Oh, that's right. He didn't.

Jordan never won a playoff game against Larry Bird. Lebron is 8-2 now in series where he was the lower seed...Jordan was 6-6. Your entire thesis is based on Lebron being on the best team so you are basically saying that the Big Three Celtics, Duncan's Spurs, and Warriors aren't dynasties. Somebody has to win and somebody has to lose not every series is a choke job

[SATAN]

A fun fact? That is something everyone here already knows.

Lol at stating this and acting like you came up with some nugget info.

:yaohappy:

[red1]

they're so mad :oldlol:


just enraged

[ShawkFactory]

As much as I love someone pointing how Jason Terry was actually not that good. Why are you posting regular season stats?

In fairness to all and especially Terry, he was quite good in the playoffs in 11.

He did 18/2/3 (60% TS) on was super clutch.

I agree he was a Mo Williams level player, but Terry played extremely well in the playoffs in 11.

Yea he and Mo are definitely similar level players. But terry consistently upped his game in the playoffs while Mo did the opposite.

I remember in game 7 against the Spurs in 06 he was massive.

[DMAVS41]

Yea he and Mo are definitely similar level players. But terry consistently upped his game in the playoffs while Mo did the opposite.

I remember in game 7 against the Spurs in 06 he was massive.

It definitely wasn't "consistent", but Terry did have his moments. He better have stepped up in game 7 after being suspended for game 6.

But, just take the conference finals that year against the Suns...he did 16/3/4 49% TS while playing subpar defense...he played well in the finals though...even if he did take too many shots for my liking.

The problem with relying so heavily on a guy like Terry is that his bad games are orders of magnitude worse than bad games of much better players. That puts a lot of pressure on single star teams in the playoffs because guys like Terry are going to have some really low impact games.

[ShawkFactory]

It definitely wasn't "consistent", but Terry did have his moments. He better have stepped up in game 7 after being suspended for game 6.

But, just take the conference finals that year against the Suns...he did 16/3/4 49% TS while playing subpar defense...he played well in the finals though...even if he did take too many shots for my liking.

The problem with relying so heavily on a guy like Terry is that his bad games are orders of magnitude worse than bad games of much better players. That puts a lot of pressure on single star teams in the playoffs because guys like Terry are going to have some really low impact games.

Yea that’s fair. But Terry does have a higher 3pt % in the playoffs than the regular season. And there’s a pretty sizable sample there.

I don’t think too many shooters can say that.

[DMAVS41]

Yea that’s fair. But Terry does have a higher 3pt % in the playoffs than the regular season. And there’s a pretty sizable sample there.

I don’t think too many shooters can say that.

Probably not, but his overall efficiency dropped in the playoffs...which is common for most.

[RRR3]

Yea he and Mo are definitely similar level players. But terry consistently upped his game in the playoffs while Mo did the opposite.

I remember in game 7 against the Spurs in 06 he was massive.
Which means they weren’t similar level players. Mo was pretty mid without LeBron too

[ImKobe]

They would call it the greatest "Pippen" ring ever and make up dumb excuses for Bran like usual.

[Johnny32]

uh, nothing. little mikey led his team to the lottery at the same age lebron is now. we already won.

leouch.

[Full Court]

Jordan never won a playoff game against Larry Bird. Lebron is 8-2 now in series where he was the lower seed...Jordan was 6-6. Your entire thesis is based on Lebron being on the best team so you are basically saying that the Big Three Celtics, Duncan's Spurs, and Warriors aren't dynasties. Somebody has to win and somebody has to lose not every series is a choke job

You are correct, just because you lose doesn't make it a choke job. These, however, are a snapshot of just SOME of LeShrivel's post season choke jobs:

2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.
Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.
Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.
2009 game 2 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.
2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.
2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.
Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.
Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.
Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.
Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.
2013 game 3 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 4 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.
2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.
2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.
Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.
2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.
Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.
2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.
Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.
Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.
Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.
Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.
2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.
Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

[red1]

They would call it the greatest "Pippen" ring ever and make up dumb excuses for Bran like usual.

no need to make excuses, lil guy.


4 finals MVPs.


leQuatro




https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/23172.jpeg

[aj1987]

You are correct, just because you lose doesn't make it a choke job. These, however, are a snapshot of just SOME of LeShrivel's post season choke jobs:

2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.
Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.
Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.
2009 game 2 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.
2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.
2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.
Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.
Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.
Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.
Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.
2013 game 3 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 4 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.
2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.
2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.
Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.
2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.
Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.
2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.
Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.
Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.
Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.
Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.
2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.
Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.
Without touching the rest of your autistic copy+paste, those two bolded games NEVER happened. If you're going to lie or make up shit, at least try it with something that can't be verified within 10 seconds on BB-Ref.


Also, since having a bad shooting game is apparently a "choke", you want to bring up 1-9's games 4 and 6 in the '96 Finals? He shot 41.5% in those Finals, so he choked and was carried, right?

[Full Court]

Without touching the rest of your autistic copy+paste, those two bolded games NEVER happened. If you're going to lie or make up shit, at least try it with something that can't be verified within 10 seconds on BB-Ref.


Also, since having a bad shooting game is apparently a "choke", you want to bring up 1-9's games 4 and 6 in the '96 Finals? He shot 41.5% in those Finals, so he choked and was carried, right?

Lol. They certainly did happen. You're either incredibly dumb or a liar. You denying them doesn't change that they're a historical FACT.

Here, educate yourself, moron:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2013

I swear Bronie fluffers are legit retarded. :lol

[ELITEpower23]

It'll be a 98 Jordan, 80 Kareem, 07 Duncan, or 02 Kobe Ring

[ArbitraryWater]

It'll be a 98 Jordan, 80 Kareem, 07 Duncan, or 02 Kobe Ring

the first 2 are extremely unlike the other 2, especially 02 Kobe.

[hateraid]

Damn, people are really shook after last night, already preemptively using damage control for a potential event that's still THREE rounds away :lol

AD SHOULD be FMVP over LeBron, he's 29, LeBron's 38. The fact you think this should be construed as some negative against him just shows he's held to legitimately unprecedented standards. I can assure you 38 year old Jordan wouldn't be winning FMVP over a superstar at his peak either.

Bingo

[aj1987]

Lol. They certainly did happen. You're either incredibly dumb or a liar. You denying them doesn't change that they're a historical FACT.

Here, educate yourself, moron:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2013

I swear Bronie fluffers are legit retarded. :lol

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201306110SAS.html

That was game 3, you absolute retard.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201306130SAS.html

That was game 4. LeBron and Wade had monster games and the Heat won.

I know you had the IQ of a retarded rodent, but this is a new low, even for you. Heck, I didn't even need BB-Ref to know that you were talking out your ass about game 4. Literally every single Heat fan remembers that game.

Miami lost G1 and if they lost games 3 and 4, they'd be down 1-3. Is that what you think happened?

[Full Court]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201306110SAS.html

That was game 3, you absolute retard.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201306130SAS.html

That was game 4. LeBron and Wade had monster games and the Heat won.

I know you had the IQ of a retarded rodent, but this is a new low, even for you. Heck, I didn't even need BB-Ref to know that you were talking out your ass about game 4. Literally every single Heat fan remembers that game.

Miami lost G1 and if they lost games 3 and 4, they'd be down 1-3. Is that what you think happened?

LeShrivel's epic choke jobs were game 2 and 3, not 3 and 4, retard. :roll:

Weep it up, bitch boi.

[StrongLurk]

I'd love it if AD won FMVP this year. That means another ring for Lebron, and most likely, Lebron played at least a high all-star level for these Lakers to win a ring.

Would totally count as a legit ring for Bron.

[Indian guy]

Pretty sure all LeBron fans would be ecstatic beyond belief to see him win a championship at 38 freaking years old.

[sdot_thadon]

Umm, celebrate a 5th title I'd imagine? Kobe's situation isn't like this Lebron is 800 years old in basketball terms and still leads his team, I mean you're literally asking this question as he comes off a series where he led in the main statistical categories. That's a long reach for stubby arms.

[aj1987]

LeShrivel's epic choke jobs were game 2 and 3, not 3 and 4, retard. :roll:

Weep it up, bitch boi.

Read your own post, you incel ******"

"2013 game 3 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 4 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS. "

Keep pulling stuff out your ass. You seem to enjoy it.

Also, Miami won game 2 in that series and wouldn't won game 1 as well, if it wasn't for that ridiculous game winner by TP.

Why don't you stick to rubbing it to basketball players pictures, instead of trying to talk ball, homo. :cheers:

[Full Court]

Read your own post, you incel ******"

"2013 game 3 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 4 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS. "

Keep pulling stuff out your ass. You seem to enjoy it.

Also, Miami won game 2 in that series and wouldn't won game 1 as well, if it wasn't for that ridiculous game winner by TP.

Why don't you stick to rubbing it to basketball players pictures, instead of trying to talk ball, homo. :cheers:

This retarded moron checked all 40+ choke jobs that I posted and could only find ONE TYPO. :roll:

And then he uses it to try to pretend it didn't happen. That just shows what Bronie fluffers like Addlepated Ashley are reduced to in their attempts at damage control.

What a pathethic loser.

Suck on this, biatch: BIGGEST CHOKER OF ALL TIME.

:lebronamazed:

[SouBeachTalents]

This retarded moron checked all 40+ choke jobs that I posted and could only find ONE TYPO. :roll:

And then he uses it to try to pretend it didn't happen. That just shows what Bronie fluffers like Addlepated Ashley are reduced to in their attempts at damage control.

What a pathethic loser.

Suck on this, biatch: BIGGEST CHOKER OF ALL TIME.

:lebronamazed:
Literally everything you said about Game 2 vs. Orlando was wrong too :lol

If choking is equivalent to a low point total on poor efficiency, which you've unquestionably defined it as, I'd bet good money Bill Russell's list of "chokes" would far exceed LeBron's lol.

[Full Court]

Literally everything you said about Game 2 vs. Orlando was wrong too :lol

If choking is equivalent to a low point total on poor efficiency, which you've unquestionably defined it as, I'd bet good money Bill Russell's list of "chokes" would far exceed LeBron's lol.

Ooooooooooo, another typo. Thanks for catching it. It was Game THREE, not 2.

Reeeeeeeaaaaally changes things. :lol

[1987_Lakers]

full court embarrassing himself again. What else is new?

[red1]

full court embarrassing himself again. What else is new?


:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Ooooooooooo, another typo. Thanks for catching it. It was Game THREE, not 2.

Reeeeeeeaaaaally changes things. :lol

another typo guys

[nineiron]

they'll claim racism

[aj1987]

This retarded moron checked all 40+ choke jobs that I posted and could only find ONE TYPO. :roll:

And then he uses it to try to pretend it didn't happen. That just shows what Bronie fluffers like Addlepated Ashley are reduced to in their attempts at damage control.

What a pathethic loser.

Suck on this, biatch: BIGGEST CHOKER OF ALL TIME.

:lebronamazed:

It's not a typo when you make shit up, you autistic mouth breathing virgin.

Learn what a typo is first:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/typographical-error

After that, go back to elementary and learn your 1's and 2's 'cause it's two games that I was talking about and bolded. You even wrote that in caps like you did a thing. Right now, you look like a monkey being proud of itself after playing with it's feces and I bet those monkey's would be smarter than you.

Try making a coherent basketball argument using FACTS.

Oh wait, you can't. Your tiny pea sized brain might explode. :lol:

[Full Court]

It's not a typo when you make shit up, you autistic mouth breathing virgin.

Learn what a typo is first:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/typographical-error

After that, go back to elementary and learn your 1's and 2's 'cause it's two games that I was talking about and bolded. You even wrote that in caps like you did a thing. Right now, you look like a monkey being proud of itself after playing with it's feces and I bet those monkey's would be smarter than you.

Try making a coherent basketball argument using FACTS.

Oh wait, you can't. Your tiny pea sized brain might explode. :lol:

^Mega bitch fit.

Little Ashley trying everything he can do to ignore LeShrivel's 40+ choke jobs. :roll:

Keep trying, loser.

[aj1987]

im retarded :(
Agreed. :cheers:

[ELITEpower23]

full court embarrassing himself again. What else is new?

:lol

At least he's good at one thing in life

[Trollsmasher]

Bron is saving himself for those big finals like in 2020, another FMVP theft incoming

[ArbitraryWater]

trollsmasher :lebronamazed:

[tpols]

I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron swooped in for FMVP in the last series after AD carried him all playoffs long. That already happened vs the injured Heat.

Basically like a Chauncey Billups or iggy style award that his fans will use to try and say he was better than Davis which would obviously be a brutal affront to the truth.

It's all scripted though. The league is going to push for the Lakers to win at all costs.

Only an injury to AD will end their run.

[Johnny32]

FTR, old goat was voted 1st rd mvp by nba.com.

LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers

First-round stats: 22.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 5.2 apg

Honorable mention: Anthony Davis

Poke the bear, and he’ll eventually clap back with a 40-point win in a series clincher followed up with some Jay-Z lyrics to pound home the message. Dillon Brooks learned this lesson the hard way, as the brash, young Memphis Grizzlies are left to ponder what’s next and will spend the rest of the postseason as spectators. The Lakers’ Game 6 against Memphis registered as the largest in a series clincher by a James-led team in his career and marked the first time since 2010 that a No. 7 seed ousted a No. 2 seed. For the record, James is 41-10 in games where his team has an opportunity to close out a series.

LeHonorableMention.

[ArbitraryWater]

I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron swooped in for FMVP in the last series after AD carried him all playoffs long. That already happened vs the injured Heat.

Basically like a Chauncey Billups or iggy style award that his fans will use to try and say he was better than Davis which would obviously be a brutal affront to the truth.

It's all scripted though. The league is going to push for the Lakers to win at all costs.

Only an injury to AD will end their run.


dey scared already

bron at will capable of taking over the finals to outplay AD :bowdown:

[Trollsmasher]

trollsmasher :lebronamazed:

:cheers:

[FKAri]

Have sex with AD instead?

[red1]

I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron swooped in for FMVP in the last series after AD carried him all playoffs long. That already happened vs the injured Heat.

Basically like a Chauncey Billups or iggy style award that his fans will use to try and say he was better than Davis which would obviously be a brutal affront to the truth.

It's all scripted though. The league is going to push for the Lakers to win at all costs.

Only an injury to AD will end their run.

you've accepted it...


good... good...



https://media.tenor.com/ei2kOB9waykAAAAM/sidious-smile.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

:cheers:

you better be here to smash the trolls when brawn adds another ring to his fingers.

[aj1987]

I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron swooped in for FMVP in the last series after AD carried him all playoffs long. That already happened vs the injured Heat.

Basically like a Chauncey Billups or iggy style award that his fans will use to try and say he was better than Davis which would obviously be a brutal affront to the truth.

It's all scripted though. The league is going to push for the Lakers to win at all costs.

Only an injury to AD will end their run.

LeBron has been getting carried and he got carried in 2020? Do you sit on espn.com and keep refreshing the boxscores?

You went back to being a full blown retard, huh?

[SouBeachTalents]

I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron swooped in for FMVP in the last series after AD carried him all playoffs long. That already happened vs the injured Heat.

Basically like a Chauncey Billups or iggy style award that his fans will use to try and say he was better than Davis which would obviously be a brutal affront to the truth.

It's all scripted though. The league is going to push for the Lakers to win at all costs.

Only an injury to AD will end their run.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/502073_f4f930d6c3aa48dab0496a4bbdf73e3c.gif