Curry has NEVER outplayed Bron in the playoffs

[StrongLurk]

It's never happened. Steph is a legend no doubt, but it's ridiculous hearing so many people trying to claim Steph > Lebron all-time if the Warriors beat the Lakers this year. The only thing I can think of is Lebron has the most rabid "haters" of any American sport plus the massive Warriors bandwagon fan base is causing this debate to even occur.

Curry, in my opinion, is still fighting his way to earn a top ten all time spot (a ring/FMVP this year would probably do it for me). What is NOT opinion, is Lebron was better than Curry in every single series they played 2015-2018...it's not even debatable either. Curry won against a crippled Cavs team in 2015 and then KD cleared Curry in the 17/18 finals.

Lebron literally has better per game stats, better "total stats", better advanced stats, and a better resume on all ends compared to Curry. It was an extremely common thought that the 17/18 Warriors had some of the weakest rings ever and people didn't want to give Durant credit...so how can those rings "fully count" for Curry even though they don't for Durant?

Stating Curry has being better than Lebron is almost like saying Isiah Thomas was better than MJ when the Pistons were knocking the Bulls out of the playoffs (Curry is > IT, but the example is very similar).

Man...basketball discourse has never been worse. Actually all discourse has never been worse due to social media lowering the bar and the talking heads on TV have almost all becoming compromised.

[Axe]

5*

[SouBeachTalents]

Curry's 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

[StrongLurk]

Curry's 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

Here is the logic you've used in your post.

Draymond Green is 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

Klay Thompson is 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Here is the logic you've used in your post.

Draymond Green is 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

Klay Thompson is 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.
He's trolling you :lol

[Axe]

Here is the logic you've used in your post.

Draymond Green is 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

Klay Thompson is 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.
Wooosshhiiinnggg... ;)

[LAL]

Stat bitch, both of you. He's the king of cheap stats
Congrats.

[BallsOut]

It's never happened. Steph is a legend no doubt, but it's ridiculous hearing so many people trying to claim Steph > Lebron all-time if the Warriors beat the Lakers this year. The only thing I can think of is Lebron has the most rabid "haters" of any American sport plus the massive Warriors bandwagon fan base is causing this debate to even occur.

Curry, in my opinion, is still fighting his way to earn a top ten all time spot (a ring/FMVP this year would probably do it for me). What is NOT opinion, is Lebron was better than Curry in every single series they played 2015-2018...it's not even debatable either. Curry won against a crippled Cavs team in 2015 and then KD cleared Curry in the 17/18 finals.

Lebron literally has better per game stats, better "total stats", better advanced stats, and a better resume on all ends compared to Curry. It was an extremely common thought that the 17/18 Warriors had some of the weakest rings ever and people didn't want to give Durant credit...so how can those rings "fully count" for Curry even though they don't for Durant?

Stating Curry has being better than Lebron is almost like saying Isiah Thomas was better than MJ when the Pistons were knocking the Bulls out of the playoffs (Curry is > IT, but the example is very similar).

Man...basketball discourse has never been worse. Actually all discourse has never been worse due to social media lowering the bar and the talking heads on TV have almost all becoming compromised.

Seek help. Series hasn’t even started and OP is already melting down.

[Spurs m8]

Curry played team ball to win...you know, the whole actual purpose of playing sport....you stupid, stupid, low IQ motherfvcker

Nba fans are the dumbest cvnts

[StrongLurk]

Curry played team ball to win...you know, the whole actual purpose of playing sport....you stupid, stupid, low IQ motherfvcker

Nba fans are the dumbest cvnts

Why do you even post?

[ImKobe]

He outplayed him in 2015 tbh.. Bran just dominated the shit out of the ball & played a loser brand of basketball to maximize his stats & choked with the series on the line while Steph was clutch.

[StrongLurk]

He outplayed him in 2015 tbh.. Bran just dominated the shit out of the ball & played a loser brand of basketball to maximize his stats & choked with the series on the line while Steph was clutch.

I actually agree Bron's 2015 finals is kind of overrated, but even then he's still clearly outplayed Curry.

Curry had a great game five, and that's it.

[FromDowntown]

2015, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023

[FKAri]

Too strong of a statement. It's more subtle and hard to compare. Different roles on their teams. LeBron's teams were built around him doing everything and being ball dominant. Just offensively, LeBron was tasked to do all the playmaking for his teams and the rest of the team fills the gaps. It's simple and hamfisted and very few players in history can make this kind of a system work on the championship level. But any HOF level player looks good when asked to do this.

Curry's teams rely on him creating the chaos that drives the offense. Draymond can then punish defenses with the pass or Klay with the jumper. Although it doesn't look like Curry has to do much, what he has to do is crucial because no one on the team can create that chaos that starts the chain reaction. They've added some good role players to keep the train going last couple years as Dray and Klay have fallen off a bit. But the engine is still Curry. He doesn't have to drop 50 like the other night to still be having a huge impact.

[WhiteKyrie]

He will this year.

[kawhileonard2]

Curry's 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

This

[Full Court]

Morant and Bane just outplayed Lebron in the playoffs though.

Lucky for LeShrivel he has enough help to carry him despite that. He almost got outplayed by pathetic Dillon Brooks. :lol

[ImKobe]

I actually agree Bron's 2015 finals is kind of overrated, but even then he's still clearly outplayed Curry.

Curry had a great game five, and that's it.

Steph definitely was better in the last 3 games of that series. Game 4 Bran had 20 pts on 22 shots and wasted a 28/10 9/16 FG performance from Mozgov, if Bran shows up the Cavs go up 3 - 1 and likely win the series IMO.

[hold this L]

I'm not putting Steph ahead of Bron even if he wins the chip this year. However if he beats Lebron for the 4th time this year, I'm effectively removing LeLegacy out of the GOAT conversation forever. I still have MJ comfortably #1, but this series ensures Lebron is never being part of that discussion (in my own view). You can't get washed four times by the same guy in the playoffs in five attempts.

[aj1987]

Steph definitely was better in the last 3 games of that series. Game 4 Bran had 20 pts on 22 shots and wasted a 28/10 9/16 FG performance from Mozgov, if Bran shows up the Cavs go up 3 - 1 and likely win the series IMO.

Shump, Delly, and the bench combined to shoot 7/40 that game for 22 points. That's 17.5% shooting. LeBron could've dropped 50 that game and the Cav's would've still lost. Mozgov dropped numbers, but he was useless on the floor. The Warriors went small and he was getting annihilated.

[Phoenix]

Curry's 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

[StrongLurk]

I'm not putting Steph ahead of Bron even if he wins the chip this year. However if he beats Lebron for the 4th time this year, I'm effectively removing LeLegacy out of the GOAT conversation forever. I still have MJ comfortably #1, but this series ensures Lebron is never being part of that discussion (in my own view). You can't get washed four times by the same guy in the playoffs in five attempts.

MJ>Lebron

But again, you aren't using good logic. How exactly did STEPH CURRY "wash" Lebron in their series? Lebron was the better player 2015-2018 finals, basketball is ultimately a team game. Teams win and lose eventually.

I guess I can't have MJ as GOAT because he was "washed" by Larry Bird and Isaiah Thomas.

[StrongLurk]

Lebron vs Steph in the 2015-2018 Finals (22 games).

Lebron - 33/12/9 on 48/35/72 splits, 1.7 steals/1.3 blocks with better defense.

Steph - 25/6/6 on 42/40/91 splits, 1.5 steals, .4 blocks with worse defense.

All Curry has is a very slight TS% advantage over Bron.

[Johnny32]

I actually agree Bron's 2015 finals is kind of overrated, but even then he's still clearly outplayed Curry.

Curry had a great game five, and that's it.

what's funny considering who you quoted is old goat's 2015 finals is very kobeesque. high volume, low efficiency chucking. he had a bad back and the jumper was off all season but was forced into that playstyle because of injuries.

[Johnny32]

I'm not putting Steph ahead of Bron even if he wins the chip this year. However if he beats Lebron for the 4th time this year, I'm effectively removing LeLegacy out of the GOAT conversation forever. I still have MJ comfortably #1, but this series ensures Lebron is never being part of that discussion (in my own view). You can't get washed four times by the same guy in the playoffs in five attempts.

hurrrrrr, i used to have lil mikey #1 then he embarrassed himself on the wizards by missing the playoffs in b2b seasons at 38/39 years old so i moved him out of the goat conversation, durrrrrr.

[John8204]

Curry's 3-1 against Bron h2h, and destroyed him 8-1 over their last 2 series. If he beats him this year he surpasses him all time imo.

3-2

Lakers beat the Warriors in the playin series

[Axe]

3-2

Lakers beat the Warriors in the playin series
But curry stans will never count that as an actual h2h series due to obvious reasons. :confusedshrug: :roll:

[Nb1]

hurrrrrr, i used to have lil mikey #1 then he embarrassed himself on the wizards by missing the playoffs in b2b seasons at 38/39 years old so i moved him out of the goat conversation, durrrrrr.

Yeah, its pretty retarded to expect from a 38 yr old guy to perform as if he was a few years younger.

If you count Lebron out for losing to the defending champs at 38 while injured, then MJ shouldnt even be top 10 anymore after what he did with the Wizards.

[Nb1]

Shump, Delly, and the bench combined to shoot 7/40 that game for 22 points. That's 17.5% shooting. LeBron could've dropped 50 that game and the Cav's would've still lost. Mozgov dropped numbers, but he was useless on the floor. The Warriors went small and he was getting annihilated.

It was never a fair fight vs the Warriors. Their 11th option was better than Lebron’s 3rd option (and 2015 even better than Lebron’s 2nd option who was Dellavedova? Like gtfo).

Give Bron 4 all stars and other 5 great guys on the bench like Curry always had and it wouldnt even be close. People forget that the Warriors didnt even make it to the playoffs without Klay.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not putting Steph ahead of Bron even if he wins the chip this year. However if he beats Lebron for the 4th time this year, I'm effectively removing LeLegacy out of the GOAT conversation forever. I still have MJ comfortably #1, but this series ensures Lebron is never being part of that discussion (in my own view). You can't get washed four times by the same guy in the playoffs in five attempts.
This is a really bad take. Nothing a guy does at 38 should affect his all time standing. Esp when the guy in question had a colossal talent advantage in 2 of the series wins, and was on arguably the GOAT single season team for the 3rd. I'd wager virtually every player in history would be 1-3 against Steph under those same circumstances.

[1987_Lakers]

This is a really bad take. Nothing a guy does at 38 should affect his all time standing. Esp when the guy in question had a colossal talent advantage in 2 of the series wins, and was on arguably the GOAT single season team for the 3rd. I'd wager virtually every player in history would be 1-3 against Steph under those same circumstances.

2? More like 3.

[SouBeachTalents]

2? More like 3.
He clearly had the better team in 2017, no question, one that like I said was in GOAT consideration. But '15 & '18 are legitimately comical, esp '18.

[tpols]

Looking at how their teams performed with them on the court, Currys +/- and overall win loss record destroys lebron. He's one of the best teammate enhancers ever. And Lebrons teams have always hard doubled curry all game long while the Warriors let lebron play in isolation so the counting stats ignore that context.

All we know is lebron would have zero chance of winning a title with Andrew Wiggins as his number 2 or klay averaging 16 ppg in the Finals. He needs way more help than that like AD, Wade, or kyrie going nuclear. Had brandon Ingram whose arguably better than wiggins and couldn't even make the playoffs.

[red1]

it's literally never happened. not even hating on curry.


his own coach always said lebron was the best player in the league.

[red1]

even after 2018 kerr still said lebron was 1a 1b with jordan.

this after the cavs got SWEPT but lebron absolutely 1-man carried those bum cavs all year long even dropping 50 in the finals.


that was before lebron won his fourth ring:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG8wjJNdf4&ab_channel=ESPN

[red1]

Looking at how their teams performed with them on the court, Currys +/- and overall win loss record destroys lebron. He's one of the best teammate enhancers ever. And Lebrons teams have always hard doubled curry all game long while the Warriors let lebron play in isolation so the counting stats ignore that context.

All we know is lebron would have zero chance of winning a title with Andrew Wiggins as his number 2 or klay averaging 16 ppg in the Finals. He needs way more help than that like AD, Wade, or kyrie going nuclear. Had brandon Ingram whose arguably better than wiggins and couldn't even make the playoffs.

that's common sense. you'd rather have harrison barnes or draymond or iggy shoot before curry or even klay.


high IQ basketball. we'll see if poole and wiggins can burn the lakers because you know curry is getting doubled all game long.

[tpols]

that's common sense. you'd rather have harrison barnes or draymond or iggy shoot before curry or even klay.


high IQ basketball. we'll see if poole and wiggins can burn the lakers because you know curry is getting doubled all game long.

That's the point though when you compare counting stats. Curry gets hard doubled at half court and had to always throw the hockey assist which doesn't get counted as a stat for him. While Lebron got to play 1v1 on the perimeter and soak all the stats up for himself.

But the warriors like that because it's poorer brand of ball that lacks teamwork by comparison which is why the warriors generally regular season and playoffs had Lebrons teams number.

[red1]

That's the point though when you compare counting stats. Curry gets hard doubled at half court and had to always throw the hockey assist which doesn't get counted as a stat for him. While Lebron got to play 1v1 on the perimeter. But the warriors like that because it's poorer brand of ball that lacks teamwork by comparison which is why the warriors generally regular season and playoffs always had Lebrons teams number.

thats a fair point. curry's stats would be better. and he was obviously the real finals MVP in 2015. I always said that.

iggy was the weakest finals MVP in nba history. curry was nothing special at all he bricked a ton of open shots. the cavs were just depleted that year, literally had a 7-man rotation with lebron playing a million minutes including defending good players. so obviously the efficiency wouldnt be there even if the volume scoring is there.

[red1]

the brand of basketball point is retarded. the warriors had FAR better talent every time they faced the cavs.


are you mentally retarded?


2015 and 2017 and 2018 were massively lopsided. no love or kyrie and then the warriors had the literal most stacked team of all time with kd joining a 73-win team that was 1-shot away from winning back to back rings.


lebron was the best player in the world all 4 years.


2015-2018.

[red1]

you cant argue how stacked those kd warriors teams were


even draymond himself told kd we don't need you - and then went and proved it last year winning another ring without him :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

thats a fair point. curry's stats would be better. and he was obviously the real finals MVP in 2015. I always said that.

iggy was the weakest finals MVP in nba history. curry was nothing special at all he bricked a ton of open shots. the cavs were just depleted that year, literally had a 7-man rotation with lebron playing a million minutes including defending good players. so obviously the efficiency wouldnt be there even if the volume scoring is there.
He's of course by default one of the weakest FMVP's ever :lol But the revisionist history regarding that Finals is crazy. I remember Iggy was getting majority support on here over Curry for FMVP during that series. Kerr moving Iggy to the starting lineup completely changed the course of that series

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHvcF8dUAAAYevI.jpg

Even if you think Curry deserved it, Iggy won it for a reason.

[SouBeachTalents]

the brand of basketball point is retarded. the warriors had FAR better talent every time they faced the cavs.


are you mentally retarded?


2015 and 2017 and 2018 were massively lopsided. no love or kyrie and then the warriors had the literal most stacked team of all time with kd joining a 73-win team that was 1-shot away from winning back to back rings.


lebron was the best player in the world all 4 years.


2015-2018.
tpols literally cannot admit this :lol He has to try to make it about "brand of ball" like a weasel.

[red1]

tpols literally cannot admit this :lol He has to try to make it about "brand of ball" like a weasel.

these kids are ****ing retarded.

kerr is the only source of truth here. he's the only one that's seen lebron mj kd and curry up close


1a 1b GOAT status. "mike and lebron two best players I've ever seen"

[red1]

He's of course by default one of the weakest FMVP's ever :lol But the revisionist history regarding that Finals is crazy. I remember Iggy was getting majority support on here over Curry for FMVP during that series. Kerr moving Iggy to the starting lineup completely changed the course of that series

Even if you think Curry deserved it, Iggy won it for a reason.

curry squandered that opportunity but let's be honest he carried that team all year. iggy didnt even outscore him in the finals and definitely didnt get the attention curry did.

they just gave it to iggy because he guarded the GOAT for the full series. warriors would have won that series anyways. cavs were running on fumes.

[aj1987]

Looking at how their teams performed with them on the court, Currys +/- and overall win loss record destroys lebron. He's one of the best teammate enhancers ever. And Lebrons teams have always hard doubled curry all game long while the Warriors let lebron play in isolation so the counting stats ignore that context.

All we know is lebron would have zero chance of winning a title with Andrew Wiggins as his number 2 or klay averaging 16 ppg in the Finals. He needs way more help than that like AD, Wade, or kyrie going nuclear. Had brandon Ingram whose arguably better than wiggins and couldn't even make the playoffs.

You do know that Wade averaged like 15 PPG as LeBron's #2 during the entire '13 PO run, right? Maybe your selective memory is kicking in. Also, last season, Klay and Wiggins averaged 19 PPG and 17 PPG respectively. Not to mention Poole dropping another 17 PPG off the bench. 55%, 54%, and 65% TS%. Wiggins defense was nasty as well. No help though. :roll:

[tpols]

the brand of basketball point is retarded. the warriors had FAR better talent every time they faced the cavs.


are you mentally retarded?


2015 and 2017 and 2018 were massively lopsided. no love or kyrie and then the warriors had the literal most stacked team of all time with kd joining a 73-win team that was 1-shot away from winning back to back rings.


lebron was the best player in the world all 4 years.


2015-2018.

Teamwork and ball movement and chemistry matter bro. I'll explain in the next post.

[red1]

It's not even an opinion the warriors had a better brand of ball... they had the best offense of all time and GOAT assist team even without KD and also broke the all time win record.

The Dubs were factually one of the best teamwork dynasties of all time while the Cavs used to play iso ball your turn my turn with LBJ and Kyrie. That's why they underachieving their start of the season projection almost every single year while the Warriors exceeded theirs.

The fact you got so mad about it proves the point to be correct. I can't believe you guys are denying that Golden State played with far better teamwork and a less iso centric style. That's just blatantly denying reality.

kyrie and lebron ISO ball is 1-0 against the warriors brand of ball.


kyrie was injured 2015 and 2017 was against the most stacked team of all time. doesnt count.


ISO ball is 1-0 against this legendary warriors shooting-3's-in-transition-passing-up-open-layups-style.

[tpols]

It's not even an opinion the warriors had a better brand of ball... they had the best offense of all time and GOAT assist team even without KD and also broke the all time win record.

The Dubs were factually one of the best teamwork dynasties of all time while the Cavs used to play iso ball your turn my turn with LBJ and Kyrie. That's why they underachieved their start of the season projection almost every single year while the Warriors exceeded theirs.

The fact you got so mad about it proves the point to be correct. I can't believe you guys are denying that Golden State played with far better teamwork and a less iso centric style. That's just blatantly denying reality.

[red1]

It's not even an opinion the warriors had a better brand of ball... they had the best offense of all time and GOAT assist team even without KD and also broke the all time win record.

The Dubs were factually one of the best teamwork dynasties of all time while the Cavs used to play iso ball your turn my turn with LBJ and Kyrie. That's why they underachieving their start of the season projection almost every single year while the Warriors exceeded theirs.

The fact you got so mad about it proves the point to be correct. I can't believe you guys are denying that Golden State played with far better teamwork and a less iso centric style. That's just blatantly denying reality.

nah it's just a low-IQ talking point from 3ball that's been debunked.

basketball is about talent.


the more talented team wins.

[aj1987]

It's not even an opinion the warriors had a better brand of ball... they had the best offense of all time and GOAT assist team even without KD and also broke the all time win record.

The Dubs were factually one of the best teamwork dynasties of all time while the Cavs used to play iso ball your turn my turn with LBJ and Kyrie. That's why they underachieving their start of the season projection almost every single year while the Warriors exceeded theirs.

The fact you got so mad about it proves the point to be correct. I can't believe you guys are denying that Golden State played with far better teamwork and a less iso centric style. That's just blatantly denying reality.

The Cavs were the #3 offense in '16 and '17 and #5 in '18. Offense wasn't an issue for them. They had ZERO rim protection and basically no help around LeBron, defensively.

[red1]

cavs never underachieved. kyrie was just fragile and then bailed in 2018.


kyrie and lebron is a multi ring winning duo against any team not named the 2017 warriors



they'd easily have won back to back rings if kyrie wasn't fragile (2015 and 2016)

[LeGoat4Life]

Lebron has NEVER beat curry without Kyrie

Curry > Lebron deal with it kids :lol

[tpols]

The Cavs were the #3 offense in '16 and '17 and #5 in '18. Offense wasn't an issue for them. They had ZERO rim protection and basically no help around LeBron, defensively.

Nobody ever said the Cavs didn't have a great offense. Its just that the warriors had a GOAT offense with by far the #1 assist rank while say... 2016 Cavs finished #13 in assist rank. Playing more as a team with superior ball movement and chemistry unlocked this GOAT brand which led to the GOAT offense.

People now want to cry about KD joining the team, when he's been team hopping all over the league ever since and has nothing to show for it.

And then they replaced him with Wiggins and won a championship. So it's obvious the Warriors have one of the most elite brands of ball ever spurred by the off ball ability of steph curry.

Can't compare individual counting stats on one guy who faces hard doubles all game to another who gets to play in isolation because he's nowhere near the scoring threat. Warriors want lebron shooting. Lebron led teams are petrified of curry going off so much so they'll give his teammates wide open shots.

Apples and oranges.

[tpols]

nah it's just a low-IQ talking point from 3ball that's been debunked.

basketball is about talent.


the more talented team wins.

Its about talent and chemistry. You sound extremely ignorant acting like chemistry and style of play doesn't matter. How talent is utilized matters, obviously. The Cavs basically wasted prime All NBA Kevin Love. Who they ironically traded away Wiggins for

[SouBeachTalents]

Its about talent and chemistry. You sound extremely ignorant acting like chemistry and style of play doesn't matter. How talent is utilized matters, obviously. The Cavs basically wasted prime All NBA Kevin Love. Who they ironically traded away Wiggins for
But your conclusion is what's bullshit. You're trying to argue it was brand of ball that won them these matchups with the Cavs when it was clearly their significant talent advantage. It'd be like arguing Isiah was a better playmaker than Jordan, and his playmaking advantage is why the Pistons beat them 3 years in a row, not the obvious factor that the Pistons had the better team.

[tpols]

But your conclusion is what's bullshit. You're trying to argue it was brand of ball that won them these matchups with the Cavs when it was clearly their significant talent advantage. It'd be like arguing Isiah was a better playmaker than Jordan, and his playmaking advantage is why the Pistons beat them 3 years in a row, not the obvious factor that the Pistons had the better team.

The Cavs were the title favorites going into 2015 and 2016 seasons so no... the Cavs clearly had at the very least equal talent, but people putting their money where their mouth is thought they were better talent wise.

Yet Cleveland never won 70+ games or dominated the league like the Warriors did. They won once by the absolute slimmest of margins and dubious of circumstances.

It's hilarious that you can't admit that Golden state had better teamwork, ball movement and chemistry aka brand of ball. Just.... absurd that you won't concede that.

[warriorfan]

The fumers are out in full force :lol :roll:

[3ba11]

Anytime Curry produced a superior team with less help, he outplayed Lebron that season, so this includes 2015, 2022 and probably this year.. He produced a better team in 2016 too but Adam Silver & injuries

[red1]

Its about talent and chemistry. You sound extremely ignorant acting like chemistry and style of play doesn't matter. How talent is utilized matters, obviously. The Cavs basically wasted prime All NBA Kevin Love. Who they ironically traded away Wiggins for

how did they waste love. he won a championship. you're acting like every team has the personnel to play the warriors style.


the only reason they can play like that is because they have the two best shooters in NBA history.


why would you give kevin love more shots when you have lebron ****ing james and kyrie ****ing irving on your team.

[red1]

The Cavs were the title favorites going into 2015 and 2016 seasons so no... the Cavs clearly had at the very least equal talent, but people putting their money where their mouth is thought they were better talent wise.

Yet Cleveland never won 70+ games or dominated the league like the Warriors did. They won once by the absolute slimmest of margins and dubious of circumstances.

It's hilarious that you can't admit that Golden state had better teamwork, ball movement and chemistry aka brand of ball. Just.... absurd that you won't concede that.

title favorites because you got the GOAT on the team :roll:

[tpols]

how did they waste love. he won a championship. you're acting like every team has the personnel to play the warriors style.


the only reason they can play like that is because they have the two best shooters in NBA history.


why would you give kevin love more shots when you have lebron ****ing james and kyrie ****ing irving on your team.

It's not just about giving more shots, but about accommodating his playstyle.

2014 Kevin Love on the shitty twolves was one of the best post players in the league. Cavs failed to utilize him appropriately and had him camping the 3pt line like a role player shooter.

It's like the 80s Lakers who had magic and Kareem. Similar offensive dynamic duo, yet they didn't have james worthy spot up shooting like a role player. Those Laker teams were GOAT offenses and assist ranks just like the Warriors though and played with maximum chemistry.

You don't need to only rely on two guys to be a great team especially if you have the talent to do otherwise.

[red1]

how'd that stacked team do without him?


surely kyrie won at LEAST one ring considering he's the best offensive player ever?

[red1]

It's not just about giving more shots, but about accommodating his playstyle. 2015 Kevin Love on the shitty twolves was one of the best post players in the league. Cavs failed to utilize him appropriately and had him camping the 3pt line like a role player shooter.

It's like the 80s Lakers who had magic and Kareem. Similar offensive dynamic duo, yet they didn't have james worthy spot up shooting like a role player. Those Laker teams were GOAT offenses and assist ranks just like the Warriors though and played with maximum chemistry.

You don't need to only rely on two guys to be a great team especially if you have the talent to do otherwise.

bro you'd have a point if the cavs didnt beat a 73-win team


I repeat.


lebron and kyrie ISO ball is the only playstyle in NBA history to dethrone a 70-win team





"buh buh they didnt use love"

[tpols]

The warriors blew the cavs out in point differential and win loss record going up 3-1 before Adam Silver and his financial backers chose to extend the series for more ratings and money.

The Cavs won once under dubious circumstances, and got demolished every other time.

Hardly anything to brag about.

[red1]

The warriors blew the cavs out in point differential and win loss record going up 3-1 before Adam Silver and his financial backers chose to extend the series for more ratings and money.

The Cavs won once under dubious circumstances, and got demolished every other time.

I dont know about that bro.


I saw a team that relies on perimeter shooting start to struggle when faced with elite offensive talent. two players dropping 40 in the same game who can score any way on the court.


cant blame it on the refs when you have that many chances to win the series. dont be a hater bro.

[red1]

lebron james finals game 7 record:


2-0


https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818159/lebronclutch.gif
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-435c807a38e6947d7ea0130fcb53225b

[tpols]

They only dropped 40 together with dray out and bogut getting injured in the middle of the game. Hence "dubious circumstances".

Cavs fans and LeBron fans were hopeless before those circumstances unfolded as the warriors always had their number.

[1987_Lakers]

They only dropped 40 together with dray out and bogut getting injured in the middle of the game. Hence "dubious circumstances".

Cavs fans and LeBron fans were hopeless before those circumstances unfolded as the warriors always had their number without that type of adulteration.

Draymond himself said the Cavs figured them out after the 2016 Finals

[red1]

They only dropped 40 together with dray out and bogut getting injured in the middle of the game. Hence "dubious circumstances".

Cavs fans and LeBron fans were hopeless before those circumstances unfolded as the warriors always had their number without that type of adulteration.

they did that three games in a row though. lebron dropped 41 points game 6 as well, and then dropped a 27-11-11 triple double with the clutch block in game 7.



game 5 was just 1 game. they were outplayed the next two games too.

[StrongLurk]

Still not a single shred of real evidence from the Bron haters that Curry OUTPLAYED Bron in any of those finals series.

Literally all they can hang their hats on is Warriors beat the Cavs 3 times out of 4 times.

Well I guess by that logic, Draymond and Klay are better than Bron too since they went 3-1 against Bron.

This upcoming series is by far Curry's best chance of finally outplaying Lebron, but he needed Bron to be 38 playing on a bad foot.

I'm not disrespecting Curry, he's clearly one of the 15 best players of all time. Huge props to him.

But it's laughable that some portion of the NBA fan base wants to say Curry is > Bron if the Warriors beat the Lakers. They are essentially saying Curry will become a top three player of all time if they win :roll:

[red1]

Still not a single shred of real evidence from the Bron haters that Curry OUTPLAYED Bron in any of those finals series.

Literally all they can hang their hats on is Warriors beat the Cavs 3 times out of 4 times.

Well I guess by that logic, Draymond and Klay are better than Bron too since they went 3-1 against Bron.

kerr literally said lebron was better than curry and kd after 2018 :roll:


"buh buh they swept him in the finals that year... buh buh 4-10 finals record"

[SouBeachTalents]

The Cavs were the title favorites going into 2015 and 2016 seasons so no... the Cavs clearly had at the very least equal talent, but people putting their money where their mouth is thought they were better talent wise.

Yet Cleveland never won 70+ games or dominated the league like the Warriors did. They won once by the absolute slimmest of margins and dubious of circumstances.

It's hilarious that you can't admit that Golden state had better teamwork, ball movement and chemistry aka brand of ball. Just.... absurd that you won't concede that.
Why are you bringing up the Cavs being title favorites like that has ANY relevance to how 2015 played out. I refuse to believe you're that stupid :lol That's you being shamelessly disingenuous.

I will gladly admit the Warriors had better teamwork, ball movement and chemistry if you admit they also had a significant talent advantage every time they won.

[3ba11]

Why are you bringing up the Cavs being title favorites like that has ANY relevance to how 2015 played out. I refuse to believe you're that stupid :lol That's you being shamelessly disingenuous.

I will gladly admit the Warriors had better teamwork, ball movement and chemistry if you admit they also had a significant talent advantage every time they won.


I was thinking of responding but then I realized that you ignore the historical record and make up your own facts.

[LeGoat4Life]

kerr literally said lebron was better than curry and kd after 2018 :roll:


"buh buh they swept him in the finals that year... buh buh 4-10 finals record"

Kerr being humble as usual

Only a dumb Abu such as yourself can't see that :lol

[3ba11]

Methodology matters just as much as stats, and Curry's methodology (brand of ball) is far superior, so he produces better teams with less help like Wiggins or Klay instead of AD, Wade or Kyrie (plus all-star scorers at 3rd option).

[Phoenix]

Post 73 and 75 are the same thing.

Edit: And 77.

And now 73 and 75 edited. 3nutball's off his meds again...

[3ba11]

Why are you bringing up the Cavs being title favorites like that has ANY relevance to how 2015 played out. I refuse to believe you're that stupid :lol That's you being shamelessly disingenuous.

I will gladly admit the Warriors had better teamwork, ball movement and chemistry if you admit they also had a significant talent advantage every time they won.


The Cavs were injured in 2015 Finals - we get it - but you're missing the point, which is that Curry produced a dynasty and superior teams in 2015, 2016 or 2022 despite less help

Klay/Dray hadn't been all-stars yet heading into the 2015 seasons, while Love/Kyrie were perennial all-stars, so Lebron had more help and preseason favorite but couldn't produce a team anywhere near what Curry produced in 15', 16', or 22' when he won with Klay or Wiggins.. Lebron never won without an all-timer and elite producer at sidekick like AD, Wade or Kyrie - he lost whenever he had a secondary producer at sidekick like Wiggins, Ingram, Mo, Zydrunas, or Jamison - we already know that he never beat top teams with bed-wetting or lesser-producing sidekicks..

It's easy to forget that Wiggins was never an all-star and considered a bum when he joined Curry, while Jamison was a 2x all-star and a coveted acquisition.. This is just 1 example of Lebron's skillset yielding inferior teammate development or chemistry, and therefore needing more help.

History tells the story that expert jumpshooters win with secondary-producing sidekicks like Wiggins, Pippen, Terry, Lowry, Pau or Klay, while ball-dominators need all-time producers or scorers like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie.. The best jumpshooters win with less help than the best ball-dominators because their skillset doesn't impose spot-up roles, which yields superior teammate development, fits, strategic capacity/coaching and ultimately, team ceilings/Finals records..

[3ba11]

Lebron had better stats in the 2016 Finals because he wasn't facing maximum defensive attention, while Curry was.. Lebron had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, while Curry never had that in the 15', 16' or 22' Finals - Curry is forced to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load while winning Finals), which Lebron never did.

Furthermore, Curry outplayed Lebron in the 2015 Finals because Lebron shot 39% and employed the worst brand of ball ever (an NBA record 12 minutes time of possession - the most ball-dominance ever that yielded massive deficit in team assists), while also playing horrific defense that allowed an 8 ppg benchwarmer to double their average and win FMVP

[red1]

Lebron had better stats in the 2016 Finals because he wasn't facing maximum defensive attention, while Curry was.. Lebron had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, while Curry never had that in the 15', 16' or 22' Finals - Curry is forced to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load while winning Finals), which Lebron never did.

Furthermore, Curry outplayed Lebron in the 2015 Finals because Lebron shot 39% and employed the worst brand of ball ever (an NBA record 12 minutes time of possession - the most ball-dominance ever that yielded massive deficit in team assists), while also playing horrific defense that allowed an 8 ppg benchwarmer to double their average and win FMVP

what a dumbass.

[3ba11]

Lebron has NEVER outplayed Durant in the playoffs (or Dirk)

Yet most people think he's better than both

Btw, Dwight beat a 66-win league favorite without his all-star PG, so why can't Lebron do the same in 2015?... It's because Lebron shot 39% against single-coverage and played worst-ever defense by letting an 8 ppg benchwarmer double their average and win FMVP.. He also had worst-ever brand of ball (record hold-time).. Otoh, you could never say that Kobe lost a series as 1st option because he shot less than 40%.

[red1]

low IQ.

[3ba11]

low IQ.


Dwight beat a 66-win league favorite of veterans without his all-star PG, so why can't Lebron do the same in 2015 against 1st-timers?... It's because Lebron shot 39% against single-coverage and played worst-ever defense by letting an 8 ppg benchwarmer double their average and win FMVP.. He also had worst-ever brand of ball (record hold-time) that yielded massive deficit in team assists.. Otoh, you could never say that Kobe lost a series as 1st option due to poor shooting (under 40%).

[Phoenix]

Otoh, you could never say that Kobe lost a series as 1st option because he shot less than 40%.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2004.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2004-nba-finals-pistons-vs-lakers.html

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball, the guy who judges everything entirely by scoring, now being forced to defend a player who got outscored h2h 4 Finals in a row, and was the 3rd highest scorer in 3 of those Finals.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFdX0GXASWLtObOA126fLgOqKRgfLvU 8tsEWSEwyuJ-1nkp-8LCD5F_qb2xpZDH2Rr8YE&usqp=CAU

[BallsOut]

The Cavs were injured in 2015 Finals - we get it - but you're missing the point, which is that Curry produced a dynasty and superior teams in 2015, 2016 or 2022 despite less help

Klay/Dray hadn't been all-stars yet heading into the 2015 seasons, while Love/Kyrie were perennial all-stars, so Lebron had more help and preseason favorite but couldn't produce a team anywhere near what Curry produced in 15', 16', or 22' when he won with Klay or Wiggins.. Lebron never won without an all-timer and elite producer at sidekick like AD, Wade or Kyrie - he lost whenever he had a secondary producer at sidekick like Wiggins, Ingram, Mo, Zydrunas, or Jamison - we already know that he never beat top teams with bed-wetting or lesser-producing sidekicks..

It's easy to forget that Wiggins was never an all-star and considered a bum when he joined Curry, while Jamison was a 2x all-star and a coveted acquisition.. This is just 1 example of Lebron's skillset yielding inferior teammate development or chemistry, and therefore needing more help.

History tells the story that expert jumpshooters win with secondary-producing sidekicks like Wiggins, Pippen, Terry, Lowry, Pau or Klay, while ball-dominators need all-time producers or scorers like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie.. The best jumpshooters win with less help than the best ball-dominators because their skillset doesn't impose spot-up roles, which yields superior teammate development, fits, strategic capacity/coaching and ultimately, team ceilings/Finals records..

Great points

[Axe]

Why are you bringing up the Cavs being title favorites like that has ANY relevance to how 2015 played out. I refuse to believe you're that stupid :lol That's you being shamelessly disingenuous.

I will gladly admit the Warriors had better teamwork, ball movement and chemistry if you admit they also had a significant talent advantage every time they won.
He's really stubborn. :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

It's not just about giving more shots, but about accommodating his playstyle.

2014 Kevin Love on the shitty twolves was one of the best post players in the league. Cavs failed to utilize him appropriately and had him camping the 3pt line like a role player shooter.

It's like the 80s Lakers who had magic and Kareem. Similar offensive dynamic duo, yet they didn't have james worthy spot up shooting like a role player. Those Laker teams were GOAT offenses and assist ranks just like the Warriors though and played with maximum chemistry.

You don't need to only rely on two guys to be a great team especially if you have the talent to do otherwise.

Love took more 3pa in 2014 than he did in 2015 with Cleveland.

[hold this L]

MJ>Lebron

But again, you aren't using good logic. How exactly did STEPH CURRY "wash" Lebron in their series? Lebron was the better player 2015-2018 finals, basketball is ultimately a team game. Teams win and lose eventually.

I guess I can't have MJ as GOAT because he was "washed" by Larry Bird and Isaiah Thomas.

No he wasn't, he just had the nicer stats. And yes it is a team game, that one won 3 out of 4 times. 2 of those 4 times playing the same game Lebron has played most of his career, building super teams. IT and Bird put together don't have as many rings as MJ, terrible comparison. When MJ started winning, nothing outside of the NBA kicking him out of the league stopped him from winning.


He's of course by default one of the weakest FMVP's ever :lol But the revisionist history regarding that Finals is crazy. I remember Iggy was getting majority support on here over Curry for FMVP during that series. Kerr moving Iggy to the starting lineup completely changed the course of that series

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHvcF8dUAAAYevI.jpg

Even if you think Curry deserved it, Iggy won it for a reason.
Iggy averaged 3 more minutes as a starter vs the bench. I think some of you people are actually brain dead and just make arguments on what people like Skip Bayless say. You don't watch and pay attention to the games themselves. Iggy won it because people like Rachol Nichols types are the type of people voting on this. Or smart guys like Zach Lowe who defended his decision on Lebron last year by saying he didn't shoot well but it wasn't that bad. Lebron in 2015 had one of the worst shooting performances in NBA finals history. But people on here put up dumbass graphics like him having 36PPG on single coverage vs 26PPG while getting doubled and trapped all series.


This is a really bad take. Nothing a guy does at 38 should affect his all time standing. Esp when the guy in question had a colossal talent advantage in 2 of the series wins, and was on arguably the GOAT single season team for the 3rd. I'd wager virtually every player in history would be 1-3 against Steph under those same circumstances.
Lebron's standings is already set. I know this is different for everyone, but he's the #2 guy passing Kareem after winning the longetivity trophy this season for me. If someone else comes out and starts winning more championships than him while beating him 4 out of 5 times, he can't be in any GOAT debate. All this talk is premature because a very likely scenario is one team beats the other and Denver kicks their ass two weeks later. A lot more basketball to be played.

[red1]

Lebron has NEVER outplayed Durant in the playoffs (or Dirk)

Yet most people think he's better than both

Btw, Dwight beat a 66-win league favorite without his all-star PG, so why can't Lebron do the same in 2015?... It's because Lebron shot 39% against single-coverage and played worst-ever defense by letting an 8 ppg benchwarmer double their average and win FMVP.. He also had worst-ever brand of ball (record hold-time).. Otoh, you could never say that Kobe lost a series as 1st option because he shot less than 40%.

rock-bottom IQ.

[red1]

No he wasn't, he just had the nicer stats. And yes it is a team game, that one won 3 out of 4 times. 2 of those 4 times playing the same game Lebron has played most of his career, building super teams. IT and Bird put together don't have as many rings as MJ, terrible comparison. When MJ started winning, nothing outside of the NBA kicking him out of the league stopped him from winning.


Iggy averaged 3 more minutes as a starter vs the bench. I think some of you people are actually brain dead and just make arguments on what people like Skip Bayless say. You don't watch and pay attention to the games themselves. Iggy won it because people like Rachol Nichols types are the type of people voting on this. Or smart guys like Zach Lowe who defended his decision on Lebron last year by saying he didn't shoot well but it wasn't that bad. Lebron in 2015 had one of the worst shooting performances in NBA finals history. But people on here put up dumbass graphics like him having 36PPG on single coverage vs 26PPG while getting doubled and trapped all series.


Lebron's standings is already set. I know this is different for everyone, but he's the #2 guy passing Kareem after winning the longetivity trophy this season for me. If someone else comes out and starts winning more championships than him while beating him 4 out of 5 times, he can't be in any GOAT debate. All this talk is premature because a very likely scenario is one team beats the other and Denver kicks their ass two weeks later. A lot more basketball to be played.

I hope we get a good series bro. :cheers:

[aj1987]

Nobody ever said the Cavs didn't have a great offense. Its just that the warriors had a GOAT offense with by far the #1 assist rank while say... 2016 Cavs finished #13 in assist rank. Playing more as a team with superior ball movement and chemistry unlocked this GOAT brand which led to the GOAT offense.

You literally said their offense caused them to lose games, when in fact, their offense was the only thing keeping them in games. The Cavs were a great offensive team, but an atrocious defensive team with two traffic cones in Kyrie and Love. Yeah, sure just bring up random assist numbers with no meaning behind it.

2015 Cavs - 10th in assists and 25th in pace

2016 Cavs - 13th in assists (0.3 assists away from being top 10) and 27th in pace

2017 Cavs - 13th in assists (1 assist away from being 9th) and 15th in pace (3rd in ORtg and just two points behind GSW)



People now want to cry about KD joining the team, when he's been team hopping all over the league ever since and has nothing to show for it.

And then they replaced him with Wiggins and won a championship. So it's obvious the Warriors have one of the most elite brands of ball ever spurred by the off ball ability of steph curry.
Huh? When did I bring up KD? Also, KD played 134 games over the last 4 seasons. I'm not a KD fan by any means, but dude hasn't really been healthy in a long time and is probably past him prime.

Lets also not forget that the Warriors beat up a bunch of injured teams. If that was LeBron, instead of Curry, you'd be crying about it for years.


Can't compare individual counting stats on one guy who faces hard doubles all game to another who gets to play in isolation because he's nowhere near the scoring threat. Warriors want lebron shooting. Lebron led teams are petrified of curry going off so much so they'll give his teammates wide open shots.

Apples and oranges.

LMAO. You do know that LeBron is the ALL-TIME LEADING scorer in BOTH the RS and the PO's, right? You also do realize that he's had 19 straight seasons of averaging over 25 PPG and 12 with over 27 PPG, right? :facepalm

[Full Court]

You literally said their offense caused them to lose games, when in fact, their offense was the only thing keeping them in games. The Cavs were a great offensive team, but an atrocious defensive team with two traffic cones in Kyrie and Love. Yeah, sure just bring up random assist numbers with no meaning behind it.

2015 Cavs - 10th in assists and 25th in pace

2016 Cavs - 13th in assists (0.3 assists away from being top 10) and 27th in pace

2017 Cavs - 13th in assists (1 assist away from being 9th) and 15th in pace (3rd in ORtg and just two points behind GSW)



Huh? When did I bring up KD? Also, KD played 134 games over the last 4 seasons. I'm not a KD fan by any means, but dude hasn't really been healthy in a long time and is probably past him prime.

Lets also not forget that the Warriors beat up a bunch of injured teams. If that was LeBron, instead of Curry, you'd be crying about it for years.



LMAO. You do know that LeBron is the ALL-TIME LEADING scorer in BOTH the RS and the PO's, right? You also do realize that he's had 19 straight seasons of averaging over 25 PPG and 12 with over 27 PPG, right? :facepalm

Do YOU realize he's had the most epic choke job of ALL TIME???

:lebronamazed:

[aj1987]

Do YOU realize that im retarded?

:lebronamazed:

Yes. :cheers:

[StrongLurk]

Damn...still never happened.

[8Ball]

2015 LeBron was better.
2016 LeBron was better.
2017 LeBron was better.
2018 LeBron was better.
2021 LeBron was better.
2023 LeBron was better.



And now everyone accepts it.