Embiid wins MVP

[bdonovan]

https://www.nba.com/news/2022-23-kia-nba-most-valuable-player-award

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvKNgClXgAsbcYl?format=jpg&name=medium

Embiid's win was well-deserved, impacting the game both on the offensive and defensive level.

When I look through how MVP voters voted, I think it's again time to re-review who votes. Given the number of votes for Gilgeous-Alexander and Sabonis as compared with Curry and Doncic shows voters are not all there.

Alexander is a volume shooter with lower TS% than many top players. Sabonis isn't even the best player on his team, let alone the league. Nowhere to be seen despite solid performance are: Lillard, LeBron, Jaylen Brown. Those three are all higher performers than Alexander and Sabonis.

[fsvr54]

Donovan Mitchell :lol:facepalm

[coin24]

MVP is just meaningless shit now, criteria seems to change yearly, and no one gets it 3 times. Most didn’t even deserve 2

[RRR3]

OP tries to pass himself off as a basketball expert but his post is once again riddled with inaccuracies. Shai’s TS was 62.6%, that’s absolutely elite considering his volume. There is zero case to be made Jaylen Brown is a better player than him. Sabonis was better than Fox all year and the impact stats bear this out. Fox was certainly better in the playoffs but that’s completely irrelevant to the voting, so I’m not sure why it would even matter.

[bdonovan]

OP tries to pass himself off as a basketball expert but his post is once again riddled with inaccuracies. Shai’s TS was 62.6%, that’s absolutely elite considering his volume. There is zero case to be made Jaylen Brown is a better player than him. Sabonis was better than Fox all year and the impact stats bear this out. Fox was certainly better in the playoffs but that’s completely irrelevant to the voting, so I’m not sure why it would even matter.

I'm saying his TS% is lower than people who got fewer votes than him. Curry's TS % is 65%. Booker, Butler at 66%. Jaylen Brown 64%. My question is why Shai? He was on a bad team and racked up the stats - that doesn't mean anything.

[ArbitraryWater]

Did you not see a thread titled "Hahahahaha" which already has a topic on it?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?511517-Hahahahahahahha

(jk)

[tontoz]

I'm saying his TS% is lower than people who got fewer votes than him. Curry's TS % is 65%. Booker, Butler at 66%. Jaylen Brown 64%. My question is why Shai? He was on a bad team and racked up the stats - that doesn't mean anything.

Huh?

Bookers TS was 60%, not 66%. Brown's TS was 58%, not 64%.

Prior to the season OKC was predicted to win 23 games. They won 40, only 4 less than the defending champs.

[tpols]

Playoffs are all that matters and in that respect the true superstars in this league are:

Jokic
AD
Curry
Butler

[tontoz]

Playoffs are all that matters and in that respect the true superstars in this league are:

Jokic
AD
Curry
Butler


If the playoffs are all that matter then why would AD be a superstar? He's made it past the 2nd round once in his career, past the 1st round only twice. He's missed the playoffs more often than he's made it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Playoffs are all that matters and in that respect the true superstars in this league are:

Jokic
AD
Curry
Butler
If you legitimately don't think Giannis is a true superstar you're honestly an idiot :lol

[tpols]

If the playoffs are all that matter then why would AD be a superstar? He's made it past the 2nd round once in his career, past the 1st round only twice. He's missed the playoffs more often than he's made it.

Because he absolutely dominates the playoffs. Have you been watching basketball? He just put up a wilt like 30/20 game on elite efficiency with elite defense.

Even on the shitty pelicans franchise averaged 31/12 on elite efficiency. Not sure how much more you want....

[tpols]

If you legitimately don't think Giannis is a true superstar you're honestly an idiot :lol

He is, but not really this year getting punked by an 8 seed and losing every game he played in.

[tontoz]

Because he absolutely dominates the playoffs. Have you been watching basketball? He just put up a wilt like 30/20 game on elite efficiency with elite defense.

Even on the shitty pelicans franchise averaged 31/12 on elite efficiency. Not sure how much more you want....

He's made it past the 2nd round once in 10 years, and that was with Lebron. That doesn't look like dominance to me.

Part of dominating the playoffs is actually playing in the playoffs.

[bsayegh]

Does this mean Embiid can finally stop whining about it?

[tpols]

He's made it past the 2nd round once in 10 years, and that was with Lebron. That doesn't look like dominance to me.

Part of dominating the playoffs is actually playing in the playoffs.

The Lakers couldn't even make the playoffs without AD. Not winning with the shitty pelicans doesn't mean anything. Nobody is going to ever win with that franchise. He's proving his mettle right now with LA finally having at least some help.

If you don't think AD is a superstar playoff performer you're clowning. He averaged 27/11 on 130 ORTG en route to a title even before this year. I'm a curry fan and when you factor in defense, that's a better playoff run than chef has ever had.

[tontoz]

The Lakers couldn't even make the playoffs without AD. Not winning with the shitty pelicans doesn't mean anything. Nobody is going to ever win with that franchise. He's proving his mettle right now with LA finally having at least some help.

If you don't think AD is a superstar playoff performer you're clowning. He averaged 27/11 on 130 ORTG en route to a title even before this year. I'm a curry fan and when you factor in defense, that's a better playoff run than chef has ever had.


GS was garbage when Steph was drafted. Before Steph got there GS had win totals of 23, 36, 26, 29. They hadn't had a 50 win season since '94 but had 8 sub 30 win seasons between then and 2012. They were a much bigger dumpster fire than the Pels.

The Pels only won 1 less game than the Lakers this year in spite of Zion hardly playing :oldlol:. They made the playoffs last year, again without Zion, and pushed the top seed to 6 games.

AD has played only 46 playoff games, same as Beal :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

The Lakers couldn't even make the playoffs without AD. Not winning with the shitty pelicans doesn't mean anything. Nobody is going to ever win with that franchise. He's proving his mettle right now with LA finally having at least some help.

If you don't think AD is a superstar playoff performer you're clowning. He averaged 27/11 on 130 ORTG en route to a title even before this year. I'm a curry fan and when you factor in defense, that's a better playoff run than chef has ever had.
Man, you REALLY pick and choose when the bubble is legitimate or not :lol

[tpols]

GS was garbage when Steph was drafted. Before Steph got there GS had win totals of 23, 36, 26, 29. They hadn't had a 50 win season since '94 but had 8 sub 30 win seasons between then and now. They were a much bigger dumpster fire than the Pels.

The Pels only won 1 less game than the Lakers this year in spite of Zion hardly playing :oldlol:. They made the playoffs last year, again without Zion, and pushed the top seed to 6 games.

You just complained about AD not making it past the 2nd round with the pelicans and are now bragging here about them getting bounced in the 1st round last year.

:oldlol: :facepalm

Look up ADs career playoff averages. They're super elite. I know you like efficiency. He's one of the most efficient playoff performers of all time. Already led the playoffs in points while winning a ring. Coming off a master class performance last night. What more do you want?

It's a really weird time to hate on the guy.

[tpols]

Man, you REALLY pick and choose when the bubble is legitimate or not :lol

ADs playoff averages outside the bubble are outstanding. I would agree with you if that wasn't the case, but welcome to reality.

He's better than embiid in the playoffs easily. Never came close to having playoff performances like embiid had in 2019 when he totally shit the bed against the raptors despite having loaded help. People forget he played with prime Jimmy butler.

[tontoz]

You just complained about AD not making it past the 2nd round with the pelicans and are now bragging here about them getting bounced in the 1st round last year.

:oldlol: :facepalm

Look up ADs career playoff averages. They're super elite. I know you like efficiency. He's one of the most efficient playoff performers of all time. Already led the playoffs in points while winning a ring. Coming off a master class performance last night. What more do you want?

It's a really weird time to hate on the guy.

The Pels lasted longer in the playoffs last year than they did in all of Davis's seasons with the Pels except 1. :oldlol:

Sample size matters. With only 46 playoff games in year 11 he can't be considered a playoff star no matter what his averages are.

The only season he got past the 2nd round was when there was a 3 month break in the middle of the season. Sorry if i don't take that very seriously.

[tpols]

You're an idiot if you don't consider AD a playoff star. Point blank. Nobody would agree with you and the evidence is overwhelming.

[tontoz]

You're an idiot if you don't consider AD a playoff star. Point blank. Nobody would agree with you and the evidence is overwhelming.

46 playoff games in 11 years isn't overwhelming. It's embarrassing. They almost missed the playoffs this year ffs.

[tpols]

Yup... embarrassing.


https://youtu.be/hSrqHiLqaHE


First 30/20 playoff game since prime Shaq. Happened last night.

Guy sucks. He's just... embarrassing as a playoff performer.

[tontoz]

Taken to OT in the play in game against a short handed Wolves team. They were 1 point away from missing the playoffs entirely. Not impressed.

[tpols]

If you're not impressed with that then you should stop watching basketball because it isn't for you. You're making yourself look like a clown here.

[tontoz]

If you're not impressed with that then you should stop watching basketball because it isn't for you. You're making yourself look like a clown here.


A clown thinks that a guy who routinely misses the playoffs or gets bounced quickly is a playoff superstar. He was lucky to even make the playoffs this year and missed it last year playing for a historic franchise with Lebron.

Just in the first round he had games of 4-13 and 4-14.

[tpols]

A clown thinks


That's rarely the case.

[tontoz]

That's rarely the case.


Rarely describes how often AD has advanced in the playoffs.

[3ba11]

A clown thinks that a guy who routinely misses the playoffs or gets bounced quickly is a playoff superstar. He was lucky to even make the playoffs this year and missed it last year playing for a historic franchise with Lebron.



2004 - lottery
2005 - lottery
2006 - 2nd Round
2007 - 22 on 36% in a sweep loss
2008 - 2nd Round bed-wetting
2009 - upset loss to injured, 1-star team
2010 - 2nd Round loss meltdown


TLDR: Lebron was a massive playoff loser or bed-wetter just like Embiid until the "decision" to put the top 3 first options on 1 team .. 100% manufactured resume.. a simpleton ball-dominator that never learned how to win with a normal cast.

[ArbitraryWater]

Playoffs are all that matters and in that respect the true superstars in this league are:

Jokic
AD
Curry
Butler

ah, so the playoffs arent showing that Booker is a superstar?


Cmon, your shtick makes no sense.

[tpols]

ah, so the playoffs arent showing that Booker is a superstar?


Cmon, your shtick makes no sense.

He doesn't play defense and his team is getting Molly whooped. He's definitely a star player but not superstar. I remember you overreacting the other day saying he was better than prime Kobe.:oldlol:

[tontoz]

So far in the playoffs AD is averaging 22 ppg with a 57% TS. Those are pedestrian numbers. Sure he has been good defensively but mediocre on offense.

And of course if it wasn't for Pelinka's flurry of moves they wouldn't even be in the playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

He doesn't play defense and his team is getting Molly whooped. He's definitely a star player but not superstar. I remember you overreacting the other day saying he was better than prime Kobe.:oldlol:

Booker is averaging 35 / 5 / 7 on 57% FG, 67% TS!!!

Stop it. You know you're wrong. Just stop.


His team is getting molly whooped cause KD isnt living up and they have no bench.

Booker has been better than AD these playoffs.

[tontoz]

He doesn't play defense and his team is getting Molly whooped. He's definitely a star player but not superstar. I remember you overreacting the other day saying he was better than prime Kobe.:oldlol:

Kind of like AD most of his playoff career, when he actually made the playoffs :oldlol:

[tpols]

Booker is averaging 35 / 5 / 7 on 57% FG, 67% TS!!!

Stop it. You know you're wrong. Just stop.


His team is getting molly whooped cause KD isnt living up and they have no bench.

Booker has been better than AD these playoffs.

No he hasn't when you factor defense and rebounding and passing into the equation.

That's the mistake you made when comparing him to Kobe. Booker is a sieve on defense and gives up just as much as he puts up. While AD is by far the best rim and paint protector in the playoffs thus far sitting at 30 blocks in only 7 games. Double what the next best defender has.

And then putting up Shaq like 30/20 games on offense. Its just ridiculous. I'm rooting against AD and the Lakers and he just keeps doing what he's doing.

I like Booker and agree he's on the cusp, but overall impact matters. If you're giving no great impact defending, boarding, and passing its hard to be called a superstar. His scoring is superstar level but nothing else is.

[ArbitraryWater]

No he hasn't when you factor defense and rebounding and passing into the equation.

That's the mistake you made when comparing him to Kobe. Booker is a sieve on defense and gives up just as much as he puts up. While AD is by far the best rim and paint protector in the playoffs thus far sitting at 30 blocks in only 7 games. Double what the next best defender has.

And then putting up Shaq like 30/20 games on offense. Its just ridiculous. I'm rooting against AD and the Lakers and he just keeps doing what he's doing.

I like Booker and agree he's on the cusp, but overall impact matters. If you're giving no great impact defending, boarding, and passing its hard to be called a superstar. His scoring is superstar level but nothing else is.


Youre literally making these things up cause you dont want Booker as superstar, as it wouldnt go along with your narrative.

Its 35 ppg on 67% TS.. get real. He could be averaging 40 ppg and you would be saying these things.

You act like he's a total blackhole that gives up a basket every possession. It would have to be that bad to not make him a superstar.

Lets say Book gives up 6 points a game, that would still be a net impact of +30 points at absurd efficiency. Both sides included. And 7 assists.

Youre full of shit and we both know it.

[tontoz]

Just noticed that Bookers TS in the playoffs is .666 :lol

[tpols]

Lets say Book gives up 6 points a game



:roll:

Talk about an underestimate.

Booker is a great scorer and player. But he doesn't give great impact outside his own individual scoring prowess.

He's not an off and on ball genius offensive engine like Curry who makes everybody better on top of his own individual scoring. He's doesn't pass or make everybody better like 7 foot Larry Bird aka Jokic. Doesn't have the two way game of AD or Butler or (healthy) Kawhi. He's a top 10ish player, great player but not in the realm of true all round Superstars. Is what it is.

[ArbitraryWater]

:roll:

Talk about an underestimate.

Booker is a great scorer and player. But he doesn't give impact outside his own individual scoring prowess.

He's not an off and on ball genius offensive engine like Curry who makes everybody better on top of his own individual scoring. He's doesn't pass or make everybody better like 7 foot Larry Bird aka Jokic. Doesn't have the two way game of AD or Butler or (healthy) Kawhi. He's a top 10ish player, great player but not in the realm of true all round Superstars. Is what it is.

If you genuinely think Book's playstyle and passing at 35 ppg keeps him from being a superstar, I got a bridge to sell you about Kobe. Their games weren't all that different buddy.

Critzising his passing while hes averaging more assists than Kobe ever did lol.

Booker isnt the sieve you make him out to be.

[3ba11]

If you genuinely think Book's playstyle and passing at 35 ppg keeps him from being a superstar, I got a bridge to sell you about Kobe. Their games weren't all that different buddy.

Critzising his passing while hes averaging more assists than Kobe ever did lol.

Booker isnt the sieve you make him out to be.


Booker is nice but he's never reached the caliber of domination of a Curry or Kobe - he dominates 90% of the time that they do - he'll get shut down on key occasion that they wouldn't or they would get "shutdown" but still have 30

And today's game would allow Kobe's domination to exceed anything we saw in his actual career - the spacing-out, hands-off format is perfect for a guy like Kobe - if you think Booker looks good in this format, just imagine Kobe

[tpols]

Booker is nice but he's never reached the caliber of domination of a Curry or Kobe - he dominates 90% of the time that they do - he'll get shut down on key occasion that they wouldn't or they would get "shutdown" but still have 30

And today's game would allow Kobe's domination to exceed anything we saw in his actual career - the spacing-out, hands-off format is perfect for a guy like Kobe - if you think Booker looks good in this format, just imagine Kobe

I'm convinced arby never watched Kobe if he thinks him and booker played alike. Aside from being a way better well rounded player in all facets of the game, Kobe loved operating out of the post, while Booker is purely a face up player. They played nothing alike. Arby showing his age he was probably 5 years old when Kobe was in his prime.

[tontoz]

I'm convinced arby never watched Kobe if he thinks him and booker played alike. Aside from being a way better well rounded player in all facets of the game, Kobe loved operating out of the post, while Booker is purely a face up player. They played nothing alike. Arby showing his age he was probably 5 years old when Kobe was in his prime.



Kobe forced up more bad, long jumpers than anyone i've ever seen. He was so selfish it was hard to watch at times.

The big rules change regarding the hand check happened in the middle of Kobe's career. That change discouraged guys from playing with their back to the basket because if you just face up the defender can't touch you.

[3ba11]

I'm convinced arby never watched Kobe if he thinks him and booker played alike. Aside from being a way better well rounded player in all facets of the game, Kobe loved operating out of the post, while Booker is purely a face up player. They played nothing alike. Arby showing his age he was probably 5 years old when Kobe was in his prime.


Good point about Booker being a face-up guy with no post and not well-rounded in all facets like Kobe.. Sometimes I forget that Kobe won with no passing help - he was the primary ball-handler and also the off-ball assist target for the Lakers and a primary post guy.. My 90% figure was too high

[warriorfan]

First two things i’ve seen said today is Booker = Kobe and that Anthony Davis = garnett/pippin…. I don’t even think they were trolling either


:roll:


Speechless

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm convinced arby never watched Kobe if he thinks him and booker played alike. Aside from being a way better well rounded player in all facets of the game, Kobe loved operating out of the post, while Booker is purely a face up player. They played nothing alike. Arby showing his age he was probably 5 years old when Kobe was in his prime.


wow, what a huge change for the game!

Both Kobe and Book were high volume SG's who primarily operated from the mid range, very similar habits and tendencies.

Anyway, lets not lose sight of your initial fumble: "The playoffs show who the real superstars are, and 35 ppg + 7 assists with 6 rebs on 67% TS Booker is not it!"


Lol.

[tpols]

First two things i’ve seen said today is Booker = Kobe and that Anthony Davis = garnett/pippin…. I don’t even think they were trolling either


:roll:


Speechless

AD also apparently isn't a playoff star while Joel "flop to the floor 30 times a game and sit out in the playoffs" Embiid is the MVP. :oldlol:

The whole NBA award system is a sham anyways.

[bdonovan]

Huh?

Bookers TS was 60%, not 66%. Brown's TS was 58%, not 64%.

Prior to the season OKC was predicted to win 23 games. They won 40, only 4 less than the defending champs.

The numbers were from playoff stats.
Here are regular season numbers:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=-1&sort=TS_PCT

TS%
Curry 65%
Lillard 64%
Gilgeous-Alexander 62%

I still don't know why the consensus on SGA for 46 points while Curry has 5.

MVP voters are often seduced by big stats on bad teams, judging by Jokic's wins the last two years on a slumping Nuggets (without Murray). Few would argue Jokic got worse as a player this year even if his stats are lower with Murray's return; but he didn't win MVP this year. Same situation with Westbrook's MVP in 2017. SGA got 30 pts a game because he's on a subpar OKC team, not because he's a higher caliber player than Curry or Lillard, certainly not in efficiency terms.

[tontoz]

The numbers were from playoff stats.
Here are regular season numbers:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=-1&sort=TS_PCT

TS%
Curry 65%
Lillard 64%
Gilgeous-Alexander 62%

I still don't know why the consensus on SGA for 46 points while Curry has 5.

MVP voters are often seduced by big stats on bad teams, judging by Jokic's wins the last two years on a slumping Nuggets (without Murray). Few would argue Jokic got worse as a player this year even if his stats are lower with Murray's return; but he didn't win MVP this year. Same situation with Westbrook's MVP in 2017. SGA got 30 pts a game because he's on a subpar OKC team, not because he's a higher caliber player than Curry or Lillard, certainly not in efficiency terms.



Why would you compare Shai's regular season TS to the playoff TS of other players, especially when the playoffs just started? That makes no sense.

Shai played 12 more games than Steph this year. OKC was predicted to win 23 games. They almost doubled that win total. GS had a disappointing regular season. GS as the defending champs won only 4 more games than OKC. It is obvious why Shai got more votes than Steph.

Denver won 48 games last year, same as Sacramento this year. That isn't a bad team first of all. Secondly Murray and MPJ missed the entire season. Jokic was the easy MVP last year it wasn't close.

[bdonovan]

Why would you compare Shai's regular season TS to the playoff TS of other players, especially when the playoffs just started? That makes no sense.

Shai played 12 more games than Steph this year. OKC was predicted to win 23 games. They almost doubled that win total. GS had a disappointing regular season. GS as the defending champs won only 4 more games than OKC. It is obvious why Shai got more votes than Steph.

Denver won 48 games last year, same as Sacramento this year. That isn't a bad team first of all. Secondly Murray and MPJ missed the entire season. Jokic was the easy MVP last year it wasn't close.

In the stats I posted, I compare his regular season numbers with those of others. You don't become MVP by doing anything that is related to under or over-performing odds-makers. His contribution can be evaluated on its own merits.

This is nothing to take away from Shai, but I find the MVP voters to be arbitrary; following their own narratives, disconnected with any objective measurement, much of the time. I can easily see them bantering about Shai and it being one of those choices that the journalists make that is contrarian and suggests they know the game better than others. Shai is not a household name so they seem knowing by choosing him, and with a 4th or 5th pick so it is not something they have to be held to.

Just something I noticed, you don't have to go to the mat defending the MVP voters unless you are some Gilgeous-Alexander fan.

[RRR3]

I'm saying his TS% is lower than people who got fewer votes than him. Curry's TS % is 65%. Booker, Butler at 66%. Jaylen Brown 64%. My question is why Shai? He was on a bad team and racked up the stats - that doesn't mean anything.
Jaylen Brown’s TS was 58.1% what on earth are you talking about?

[tontoz]

In the stats I posted, I compare his regular season numbers with those of others.


Here is what you actually posted.


I'm saying his TS% is lower than people who got fewer votes than him. Curry's TS % is 65%. Booker, Butler at 66%. Jaylen Brown 64%.(why are you using post season TS? ) My question is why Shai? He was on a bad team and racked up the stats - that doesn't mean anything.

The OP was about MVP voting. MVP is a regular season award so why are you comparing Shai's regular season TS to the postseason TS for Brown, Butler and Booker? That is nonsense

[SouBeachTalents]

Here is what you actually posted.



The OP was about MVP voting. MVP is a regular season award so why are you comparing Shai's regular season TS for the postseason TS for Brown, Butler and Booker? That is nonsense
Yeah, that shit makes absolutely no sense :lol

[bdonovan]

Here is what you actually posted.



The OP was about MVP voting. MVP is a regular season award so why are you comparing Shai's regular season TS for the postseason TS for Brown, Butler and Booker? That is nonsense

I think you might be trolling me at this point. The data I just posted was:


TS%
Curry 65%
Lillard 64%
Gilgeous-Alexander 62%

It's an apples to apples comparison of regular season data. TS was just one metric I happened to use as I try to understand what they hype is about the guy.

The net takeaway is Good Stats on a Bad Team doesn't mean you're a Great Player; and this:


This is nothing to take away from Shai, but I find the MVP voters to be arbitrary; following their own narratives, disconnected with any objective measurement, much of the time. I can easily see them bantering about Shai and it being one of those choices that the journalists make that is contrarian and suggests they know the game better than others. Shai is not a household name so they seem knowing by choosing him, and with a 4th or 5th pick so it is not something they have to be held to.

Feel free to post away but think I've discussed this to my satisfaction.

[tontoz]

I think you might be trolling me at this point. The data I just posted was:



It's an apples to apples comparison of regular season data. TS was just one metric I happened to use as I try to understand what they hype is about the guy.

The net takeaway is Good Stats on a Bad Team doesn't mean you're a Great Player; and this:



Feel free to post away but think I've discussed this to my satisfaction.

LMAO are you really that dumb? I literally quoted your post from the 5th post in this thread on page 1? Did you forget to take your meds?

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20230503-144938.jpg

[RRR3]

Bdumbnovan getting embarrassed rn jesus.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

People justify...or argue against...an MVP based on playoff numbers....all the time. And EVERY TIME its equally as ridiculous.

Its OK to admit you're wrong "Bdonovan" lol. Your fragile message board ego will be fine :lol

[NBAGOAT]

Most people can’t even name all of okcs starters yet shai got them to the playin. He should get consideration for all nba 1st team to be honest

[GOBB]

Well deserved. Even better seeing haters choke on their analytic data. Haha

[ShawkFactory]

First two things i’ve seen said today is Booker = Kobe and that Anthony Davis = garnett/pippin…. I don’t even think they were trolling either


:roll:


Speechless

Not sure that AD being compared to Garnett is an insult. Quite the opposite actually.

The rest is dumb.