Who is the best defender that you've watched?

[Im Still Ballin]

Who is the best defender that you've watched? Based on your eye test.

Defense, as we know, is incredibly hard to quantify. Even the analytics community has acknowledged the difficulty of boiling it down to a one-number metric. There was actually a really good article about the issue from 2021:

If You Thought Playing NBA Defense Was Hard, Try Quantifying It (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/5/11/22423517/nba-defense-analytics-nikola-jokic)

Here's a great passage talking about the frequency of blocks and steals:


This season, a block or steal occurs once every eight possessions leaguewide, meaning each player averages just one block or steal out of every 40 possessions. That leaves 39 out of 40 possessions in which the defender in question doesn’t record either statistic, but he’s still contributing, or not contributing, somehow. This imbalance also hampers other box-score-based metrics like PER, which creator John Hollinger has noted underrates “defensive specialists … who don’t get many blocks or steals.”

All of these overlapping problems mean that judging a player’s defense by his box score statistics is, in the words of Ben Falk, a former executive for the Trail Blazers and 76ers, “like squinting at a blurry picture and trying to find something out of it.”

Albert Einstein never tried to contest Wilt at the rim, but his old chestnut describes the situation perfectly: “Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.”

[warriorfan]

without thinking too hard about it and sticking to the modern era i would say

guards - jrue holiday and tony allen
sf - kawhi and pre injury paul george
pf/c - Dwight Howard, KG, Anthony Davis

[CurryOverLebron]

Hakeem Olajuwon

[Full Court]

Holiday and Davis.

[1987_Lakers]

Holiday and Davis.

12 years old confirmed.

[PeroAntic]

Its a tie between Jordan, Pippen and Rodman.

[kawhileonard2]

Kawhi, MJ, Frazier, Hakeem

[fsvr54]

Tony Allen and KG

[Im so nba'd out]

Iguodala



Best I didn’t watch. Bill Russell and pippen

[Full Court]

12 years old confirmed.

Talking current players, moron.

Go back to trying to learn what an advanced stat is. :lol

[Manny98]

Tony Allen and AD

[HoopologyPhD]

Tim Duncan
Great thread BTW, genuine thanks to OP for some original content and not just biased BS.:pimp:

[Johnny32]

peak lebron and it isn't close.

"LeBron James is better at playing defense than the idealized version of an NBA defender, as conceptualized by an analytic system that factors in everything from the precise positioning of every player on the floor to the individual skill-sets of the players involved on a given play. LeBron James is not fair."

https://deadspin.com/lebron-james-is-a-better-defender-than-the-computerized-456410614

[ShawkFactory]

Ever? Probably Ben Wallace. Agile enough to move around the perimeter if needed but strong enough to not be bullied by even the Shaqs of the world. Had impeccable timing in every aspect and the cherry on top is that he was a true QB on that end.

On the perimeter it has to be Tony Allen for me. Guys like Bruce Bowen and Prince were better at guarding elite wings but Allen could guard PGs too.

[Full Court]

If we're talking ever, I'd have to go with Rodman. His ability to disrupt anyone and everyone was crazy.

[HylianNightmare]

Battier

[red1]

kawhi

[hateraid]

Ron Artest AKA Metta World Peace
The guy was a dog and could defend almost anyone. I've seen teams actually game plan vs Artest's defense. That's true impact. Him and Mutumbo.
My team in my lifetime would be

Mutumbo
Artest
Rodman
Bowen
Allen

HM: Alvin Robinson, Pippen, Moncrief, Hakeem, Beverley, Bobby Jones, Leonard

[bdonovan]

Best defender I've ever seen: Draymond Green.

Very few defenders can guard any player on the court. His IQ on the defensive end is tremendous- you can see his footwork as he either moves to position himself against bigger players and hold them at bay or alternatively, is switched on guards, stays low and nimble and moves his feet to stay in front of the ball handler. With his length he can contest almost any shot, and has incredible reflexes and anticipation in getting to disrupt the offensive player. Strong fundamentals- rarely goes for pump fakes, takes charges, strips the ball, hands in passing lanes, hard to beat off the dribble.

It's been interesting see 270 lb centers fail to move him. A lot of that is positioning, anticipating the movement of the ball-handler, and pure strength.

Honorable Mentions:
-Bruce Bowen
-Gary Payton
-Ben Wallace
-Dennis Rodman

[Wally450]

Tony Allen, KG, Kawhi, Dwight. Hell, for his stint in Boston, I always appreciated the defense Avery Bradley played.

[SouBeachTalents]

Of guys not named yet

Kidd
Eddie Jones
Marion
Giannis
Robinson

[HoopsNY]

Ron Artest AKA Metta World Peace
The guy was a dog and could defend almost anyone. I've seen teams actually game plan vs Artest's defense. That's true impact. Him and Mutumbo.
My team in my lifetime would be

Mutumbo
Artest
Rodman
Bowen
Allen

HM: Alvin Robinson, Pippen, Moncrief, Hakeem, Beverley, Bobby Jones, Leonard

Mutombo over Hakeem?!

[BarberSchool]

Pre-load-management Kawhi

[FKAri]

I'll exclude "bigs" because it's hard to compare. Then to me it's between Tony Allen and Kawhi. I'll go Kawhi since he was able to do it while having offensive responsibilities. Tony Allen seemed like the hardest guy to get off balance and get away from. Meanwhile Kawhi had the best hands that could swipe the ball away at anytime.

[dankok8]

I would say KG and Ben Wallace out of the ones I watched live.

[bullettooth]

JJ Barea

[Foster5k]

04 Pistons were a problem problem. Someone from that team gotta make the list. I'll say Ben Wallace.

[Carbine]

Kawhi from the last Spurs title to his rookie year.

Draymond pre 2016. He's still excellent, but he was the prototype modern day defender during that time.

[Axe]

Snow.

[TheMan]

peak lebron and it isn't close.

"LeBron James is better at playing defense than the idealized version of an NBA defender, as conceptualized by an analytic system that factors in everything from the precise positioning of every player on the floor to the individual skill-sets of the players involved on a given play. LeBron James is not fair."

https://deadspin.com/lebron-james-is-a-better-defender-than-the-computerized-456410614

12 years old confirmed :lol

[TheMan]

Pip, Rodman, TimmyD, Hakeem, KG, GP, BBowen, TAllen, MJ, BWallace, DRob, Mourning, KLeonard...

[hateraid]

Mutombo over Hakeem?!

Yes in terms of impact. Hakeem was a good one on one and help defender but Mutombo was an eraser and pretty much erased anything in the paint.

[3ba11]

Camby was a monster

[Prometheus]

Kevin Garnett

[Axe]

Camby was a monster
Zach randolph you mean.

[plowking]

Kawhi and Pippen on the perimeter.

Hakeem and Ben Wallace inside.

[HoopsNY]

Yes in terms of impact. Hakeem was a good one on one and help defender but Mutombo was an eraser and pretty much erased anything in the paint.

Curious to hear more about this. I think you're older than me, so you probably saw Hakeem in the mid to late 80s. I saw Mutombo and Hakeem in the 90s. Yes, Mutombo was a prolific shot blocker and did erase anything from the paint, but so did Hakeem. So what exactly made Mutombo more impactful?

[Jasper]

Holiday , Alvin Roberston
MJ , Payton

Pip , hondo
rodman , Giannis
Akeem , duncan

super difficult to pick top tier , there are more, all so close to elite

[FKAri]

Holiday , Alvin Roberston
MJ , Payton

Pip , hondo
rodman , Giannis
Akeem , duncan

super difficult to pick top tier , there are more, all so close to elite

Oh there's an old school name. Did you ever watch Michael Ray Richardson (pre cocaine)?

[Gougou]

Hmm lots of good defensive players, if I go the best ones...

Center PF - AD, KG, Ben Wallace, Serge Ibaka, Dwight Howard.

SF - Kawhi (He was the reason why 2014 finals Wade is doing terribly)

[Overdrive]

Not mentioned yet AK47 and Tayshaun.

[Im Still Ballin]

A lot of Kawhi mentions. He really was a menace, wasn't he?

[Johnny32]

12 years old confirmed :lol

i'm the only one bringing facts to this shitopic.

Ultra-aggressive help defense is really hard work. Replay that clip and watch how far DeRozan's ghost has to move as the Knicks swing the ball. That's brutal, and it's not a coincidence that the only team that consistently mirrors the help defense of its ghosts is Miami, Rucker says. The Heat have three of the best wing defenders in the league in Shane Battier, LeBron James, and Dwyane Wade, and the latter two are among the NBA's most gifted pure athletes. James can mimic DeRozan's hyperactive ghost in a way no other player can, Rucker says. "LeBron basically messes up the system and the ghosts," Rucker says. "He does things that are just unsustainable for most players."

keep crying, fat tranny

[Jasper]

Oh there's an old school name. Did you ever watch Michael Ray Richardson (pre cocaine)?

like I said , it could appear only a handful of players ... but they didn't get to the NBA just shooting the rock .. lol

[paksat]

ben wallace

[highwhey]

A lot of Kawhi mentions. He really was a menace, wasn't he?

still is. not like he was pre-injury but he i'd say he's the best defender i have seen. he's strong af too, it's like running into a wall.