Is it not very clear that Jokic is just better than Embiid?

[iamgine]

Not just better, but MUCH better.

In the playoff, the only year it's close is 2021. Any other time, it's not even close.

[Carbine]

Yes. The defensive difference isn't as drastic as people want to think. Everyone would've thought Joker would be getting cooked alive in the pick and roll this playoffs but that hasn't been the case whatsoever. He holds his own.

Which is all that's required because his offense is as good as it gets. The best offensive big man of all time

[1_BAD_TIGER]

I'm a big fan of Jokic, but he's not much better then Embiid, he's only slightly better and a big part of that is his durability. Also Joker if he still wants to play 10 years from now, will still be a highly effective player, Embiid might be out of the league by then.

[bdonovan]

Jokic is a great player, but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 of most impactful players because he is not a 2-way player.

LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, Butler, Anthony Davis. All exceptional 2 way players.

Like many European players, Jokic has not worked on his fitness to have the kind of mobility he needs to guard effectively.

Jokic won the MVPs conveniently when Jamal Murray was injured which inflated his stats. Same deal with Westbrook on a hapless OKC in 2017. Everyone knows Westbrook is not the MVP of anything.

Embiid dominated the direct matchup when they played Jan 28 with 47 points to Jokic 24 points
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/game/1-28-2023-den-@-phi-73867

Embiid had 18 boards to Jokic 8.

That alone isn't determinative. But I would say in general stats don't tell the story; even advanced stats are not representative. Jokic cannot adequately guard the other top centers nor does he do a great job when switched or on the perimeter. He does check other boxes in terms of an elite player in that he makes his teammates better, is skilled in other parts of the game such as passing, basketball IQ.

The Nuggets have a complete team, with complementary parts, shooting, inside game, forwards with length and defensive prowess. Put a solid player like Jokic in that group and you have a dominant team. But on his own, don't think he is a top 5 player.

[Full Court]

Jokic plays, Embiid doesn't...

[Manny98]

In the regular season it's close but come playoff time it's a different story

Embiid hasn't had a single playoff series in his entire career in which he has genuinely impressed me, he's not built for playoff basketball whatsoever

[Carbine]

Jokic is a great player, but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 of most impactful players because he is not a 2-way player.

LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, Butler, Anthony Davis. All exceptional 2 way players.

Like many European players, Jokic has not worked on his fitness to have the kind of mobility he needs to guard effectively.

Jokic won the MVPs conveniently when Jamal Murray was injured which inflated his stats. Same deal with Westbrook on a hapless OKC in 2017. Everyone knows Westbrook is not the MVP of anything.

Embiid dominated the direct matchup when they played Jan 28 with 47 points to Jokic 24 points
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/game/1-28-2023-den-@-phi-73867

Embiid had 18 boards to Jokic 8.

That alone isn't determinative. But I would say in general stats don't tell the story; even advanced stats are not representative. Jokic cannot adequately guard the other top centers nor does he do a great job when switched or on the perimeter. He does check other boxes in terms of an elite player in that he makes his teammates better, is skilled in other parts of the game such as passing, basketball IQ.

The Nuggets have a complete team, with complementary parts, shooting, inside game, forwards with length and defensive prowess. Put a solid player like Jokic in that group and you have a dominant team. But on his own, don't think he is a top 5 player.

He was without his second and third options last year and still won almost 50 games.

He was "on his own" aw much as any defending MVP has ever been and won another MVP because he carried them

[RRR3]

Jokic is a great player, but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 of most impactful players because he is not a 2-way player.

LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, Butler, Anthony Davis. All exceptional 2 way players.

Like many European players, Jokic has not worked on his fitness to have the kind of mobility he needs to guard effectively.

Jokic won the MVPs conveniently when Jamal Murray was injured which inflated his stats. Same deal with Westbrook on a hapless OKC in 2017. Everyone knows Westbrook is not the MVP of anything.

Embiid dominated the direct matchup when they played Jan 28 with 47 points to Jokic 24 points
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/game/1-28-2023-den-@-phi-73867

Embiid had 18 boards to Jokic 8.

That alone isn't determinative. But I would say in general stats don't tell the story; even advanced stats are not representative. Jokic cannot adequately guard the other top centers nor does he do a great job when switched or on the perimeter. He does check other boxes in terms of an elite player in that he makes his teammates better, is skilled in other parts of the game such as passing, basketball IQ.

The Nuggets have a complete team, with complementary parts, shooting, inside game, forwards with length and defensive prowess. Put a solid player like Jokic in that group and you have a dominant team. But on his own, don't think he is a top 5 player.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[sdot_thadon]

More skilled? Agree. Much better? Hell no. Embiid is just a more dominating presence because he can impact both ends, that's not a common trait.

[bsayegh]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah I wouldnt call Steph an exceptional 2 way player. Not eve Lebron at this point. He can be in spurts but I dont think he can play defense for 40 minutes/night.

[FultzNationRISE]

Jokic is a great player, but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 of most impactful players because he is not a 2-way player.

LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, Butler, Anthony Davis. All exceptional 2 way players.

Like many European players, Jokic has not worked on his fitness to have the kind of mobility he needs to guard effectively.

Jokic won the MVPs conveniently when Jamal Murray was injured which inflated his stats. Same deal with Westbrook on a hapless OKC in 2017. Everyone knows Westbrook is not the MVP of anything.

Embiid dominated the direct matchup when they played Jan 28 with 47 points to Jokic 24 points
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/game/1-28-2023-den-@-phi-73867

Embiid had 18 boards to Jokic 8.

That alone isn't determinative. But I would say in general stats don't tell the story; even advanced stats are not representative. Jokic cannot adequately guard the other top centers nor does he do a great job when switched or on the perimeter. He does check other boxes in terms of an elite player in that he makes his teammates better, is skilled in other parts of the game such as passing, basketball IQ.

The Nuggets have a complete team, with complementary parts, shooting, inside game, forwards with length and defensive prowess. Put a solid player like Jokic in that group and you have a dominant team. But on his own, don't think he is a top 5 player.


:roll:

[FultzNationRISE]

More skilled? Agree. Much better? Hell no. Embiid is just a more dominating presence because he can impact both ends, that's not a common trait.

:roll:

[Session]

It's very easy to be a two way player in the regular season because basically NO ONE defends. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Joel Embiid defends a little more and has the wingspan, but when the moment of truth arrives he becomes small and does not defend.

If you were comparing Jokic to Antetokounmpo I would have a lot more doubts, but with the guy who blames his teammates after having a horrible match, no way.

[Im Still Ballin]

Jokic is a great player, but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 of most impactful players because he is not a 2-way player.

LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, Butler, Anthony Davis. All exceptional 2 way players.

Like many European players, Jokic has not worked on his fitness to have the kind of mobility he needs to guard effectively.

Jokic won the MVPs conveniently when Jamal Murray was injured which inflated his stats. Same deal with Westbrook on a hapless OKC in 2017. Everyone knows Westbrook is not the MVP of anything.

Embiid dominated the direct matchup when they played Jan 28 with 47 points to Jokic 24 points
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/game/1-28-2023-den-@-phi-73867

Embiid had 18 boards to Jokic 8.

That alone isn't determinative. But I would say in general stats don't tell the story; even advanced stats are not representative. Jokic cannot adequately guard the other top centers nor does he do a great job when switched or on the perimeter. He does check other boxes in terms of an elite player in that he makes his teammates better, is skilled in other parts of the game such as passing, basketball IQ.

The Nuggets have a complete team, with complementary parts, shooting, inside game, forwards with length and defensive prowess. Put a solid player like Jokic in that group and you have a dominant team. But on his own, don't think he is a top 5 player.

Bro, you got some retarded logic here.

[John8204]

No....one is top ten all-time the other is top twenty nearing top fifteen.

It would be like saying Hakeem Olajuwon is that much better than Patrick Ewing. Hakeem was better than Patrick but not drastically so.

[Jasper]

Not just better, but MUCH better.

In the playoff, the only year it's close is 2021. Any other time, it's not even close.

Joker is the best center in the league.

Lopez had a super year this year, after a surgery to his back.
I would say he is #2.
Even though people will say high volume shooter Embid is.

[iamgine]

No....one is top ten all-time the other is top twenty nearing top fifteen.

It would be like saying Hakeem Olajuwon is that much better than Patrick Ewing. Hakeem was better than Patrick but not drastically so.

I would say Hakeem was better than Ewing by quite a margin.

Not in the regular season, cause Hakeem tend to coast there, but in the playoff.

[John8204]

I would say Hakeem was better than Ewing by quite a margin.

Not in the regular season, cause Hakeem tend to coast there, but in the playoff.

Can you come up with 10 centers to put between Hakeem and Ewing?

[FireDavidKahn]

Embiid should be disqualified from ever being in the MVP discussion again along with stripping the right to vote for anyone who voted for him

[RogueBorg]

Can you come up with 10 centers to put between Hakeem and Ewing?

There's only one (David Robinson) which validates your point.

[iamgine]

Can you come up with 10 centers to put between Hakeem and Ewing?

Even #1 and #2 can have a significant difference.

[ShawkFactory]

There's only one (David Robinson) which validates your point.

Do you not consider Moses Malone a center? Or do you think he was better than Hakeem?

[RogueBorg]

I would say Hakeem was better than Ewing by quite a margin.

Not in the regular season, cause Hakeem tend to coast there, but in the playoff.

Hakeem was better but he wasn't better than Ewing by a large margin.

[RogueBorg]

Do you not consider Moses Malone a center? Or do you think he was better than Hakeem?

Moses Malone is my all-time favorite player. He was a center. He wasn't better than Hakeem. He was between Hakeem and Ewing. So there's two.