A guy went back and tracked plus-minus and calculated RAPM for the 1987-88 season

[Im Still Ballin]

Look who's third.

:banana:


From my video library of past games, I have been slowly reconstructing NBA Stint Data for several seasons prior to the 1996 Season’s start of the Play-By-Play era of statistics tracking of NBA games. This is a lengthy effort in trying to give some insight to interactions between players, at least from a stint level. When the project is more complete, data will become more readily available. Until then, here is a snapshot from the 1987-88 NBA season. Currently I have logged 189 of a possible 943 games, which is a mere 20.0% completion.

In this post, we show the individual “plus-minus” in form of number of offensive possessions played, points scored by the offense, number of defensive possessions played, points scored by opponents, Offensive RAPM, Defensive RAPM, and Overall RAPM.



https://squared2020.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/screen-shot-2021-04-11-at-12.29.24-pm.png
https://squared2020.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/screen-shot-2021-04-11-at-12.29.37-pm.png

[ArbitraryWater]

Bird at 71 so far?

[Micku]

Hakeem at 44 too. And a negative on the DBPM.

It's all out of wack of what you expect to see other than the top two.

That year was Larry Bird's best season statistically too. One of his most efficient years.

And Danny Ainge being in the top 10. I don't see Karl Malone either but I'm probably blind.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's only 20% of all games from that season. Just a snapshot. RAPM is best when it's large sample sizes across several seasons. Single-season RAPM isn't the best, which is why one-number metrics include other factors. EPM uses a box score plus-minus and some player tracking to help with defense.

Still, it's cool to see some play-by-play data from old eras.

[Dbrog]

Kinda proves it's a useless stat no? Maybe like I'm Still Ballin saying it could even out a bit with larger sample sizes?

[jlip]

Yeah. This 20% is obviously not a sufficient sample size. Also, did he choose the same number of games for each player listed?

[Micku]

It's only 20% of all games from that season. Just a snapshot. RAPM is best when it's large sample sizes across several seasons. Single-season RAPM isn't the best, which is why one-number metrics include other factors. EPM uses a box score plus-minus and some player tracking to help with defense.

Still, it's cool to see some play-by-play data from old eras.

Yeah that would explain it. I didn't read the part where it's only 20% of all games that season. It is interesting for sure. I remember they did something like this for the playoffs too not too long ago.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's only 20% of all games from that season. Just a snapshot. RAPM is best when it's large sample sizes across several seasons. Single-season RAPM isn't the best, which is why one-number metrics include other factors. EPM uses a box score plus-minus and some player tracking to help with defense.

Still, it's cool to see some play-by-play data from old eras.


thats why I said so far. 20% or not, 71 is pretty damn low. So is Hakeem and no Malone?

[Im Still Ballin]

Here are some other years:

https://squared2020.com/2021/12/19/1969-1970-nba-rapm/
https://squared2020.com/2021/04/11/1979-80-nba-rapm/
https://squared2020.com/1984-85-rapm/
https://squared2020.com/1987-88-nba-rapm/
https://squared2020.com/2021/09/11/1990-1991-nba-rapm/
https://squared2020.com/2022/07/18/1995-1996-nba-rapm/

[Im Still Ballin]

thats why I said so far. 20% or not, 71 is pretty damn low. So is Hakeem and no Malone?

Yeah, it's low. Karl Malone appears to rank quite low in all of the years the guy did. 1990-91 (https://squared2020.com/2021/09/11/1990-1991-nba-rapm/) and 1995-96 (https://squared2020.com/2022/07/18/1995-1996-nba-rapm/).

[1987_Lakers]

I must say, OP is probably the biggest McHale fan in the world while Kizzle just might be the biggest McHale hater ever. What are the odds these two individuals post on ISH?

[John8204]

or maybe....+/- is stupid and people who believe in it are stupid to

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-14-2014/OP9ats.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

I must say, OP is probably the biggest McHale fan in the world while Kizzle just might be the biggest McHale hater ever. What are the odds these two individuals post on ISH?

He's going to be mad as hell when he sees '88 post-broken-foot McHale right up there with the greats.

:banana:


or maybe....+/- is stupid and people who believe in it are stupid to

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-14-2014/OP9ats.gif

I disagree. It's a valuable metric that helps us understand impact outside of the box score. Play-by-play data helps formulate the backbone of the best advanced statistics that exist. However, like with any statistic or metric, it must be interpreted properly and used to support game footage.

[GimmeThat]

most people go hush hush when discussing about their idols being on steroids. not sure if OP was expecting us not to call it out

[dankok8]

It's roughly a half-season sample for McHale since it tracked 43 Celtics games (31-12 record). Not sure if and how many of the games McHale missed though.

But yea it's a small sample. With RAPM you need a 3-5 year aggregate to get reliable numbers.

[L.Kizzle]

I must say, OP is probably the biggest McHale fan in the world while Kizzle just might be the biggest McHale hater ever. What are the odds these two individuals post on ISH?
I actually don't hate McHale at all. Never met the guy.