The Real MVP vs. Embiid In The Play Offs

[FireDavidKahn]

https://twitter.com/grisingTRS/status/1657055000282169345


Jokic and Embiid in the playoffs so far:
BPM: 14.3 to 3.4.
WS/48: .325 to .136.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv8KeJaaIAAz8ln?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[SouBeachTalents]

Jokic averages over 3x the assists yet still has less TO's. That's crazy :lol

[90sgoat]

Jokic has been spectacular this playoff.

Shows what he can do with half a competent team. Denver are much deeper this year for sure. Could be the year.

[HoopologyPhD]

Kevin Durant's mom is not in the playoffs

[FultzNationRISE]

Yeah Jokic has been clearly better altho I think you also have to acknowledge that the Suns and Celtics are not the same animal defensively.

Still, theres really no way to shut Jokic down because he utilizes power and passing in addition to having a jump shot. Guys like Embiid and Durant who are basically just good shot makers are still prone to off-nights or even off-series.

Jokic has too many avenues for making an impact, you cant harass him out of his game. That said, Joel’s been a monster defensively and deserves credit for that too.

But overall, it’s simply a fact Joker is the better player right now. Just more maturity and consistency.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Kevin Durant's mom is not in the playoffs

I have to admit honestly I lol'd.

[basketballcat]

Jokic has always been better than the fake "diversity MVP". It's so dumb anyway, as Caucasians are the minority in the NBA. If Kendrick Perkins and co. are all about affirmative action for minorities, Jokic should be the one benefitting. Oh well ...

[PeroAntic]

Its closer than the stats make it seem. Embiid playing elite defense and deferring to Harden needs to factor in the whole comparison.

[basketballcat]

Its closer than the stats make it seem. Embiid playing elite defense and deferring to Harden needs to factor in the whole comparison.

No it's not. Jokic has more steals, more defensive rebounds, and higher defensive win shares. Embiid is better by 1 point in Defensive Rating. Sure, Embiid is probably better overall by defense. Not by much, though.

On the other hand, Jokic absolutely destroys Embiid on offense. Absolutely DOMINANT.

Overall, it's not close. Jokic >>> Embiid.

Even in the regular season, check:
1. Individual W - L, on games they actually played in.
2. Team W - L, on games they didn't play in.
3. Value Over Replacement Player
4. Box +/-

Jokic was very clearly the "Most Valuable Player", by literally almost any metric. :basketball He just loses in this stat: skin pigmentation.

[PeroAntic]

Sure, Embiid is probably better overall by defense. Not by much, though.

On the other hand, Jokic absolutely destroys Embiid on offense .

Its by much. Nuggets have to hide and cover Jokic on defense, Sixers drive traffic into Embiid. And all these offensive stats would be lopsided if Jokic played with Harden instead of Embiid. Making this about race is stupid but thats America for you

[FultzNationRISE]

Its by much. Nuggets have to hide and cover Jokic on defense, Sixers drive traffic into Embiid. And all these offensive stats would be lopsided if Jokic played with Harden instead of Embiid. Making this about race is stupid but thats America for you

It’s not that simple tbh.

As someone, I think ISB, pointed out, efficient offense is a form of defense because you give up less in transition. And nobody’s more efficient than Joke. Furthermore, rebounding is also a form of defense because you cant win a game if you get killed on the offensive glass. Youre just giving the other team a lopsided number of possessions, mathematically it’s a death blow to your chances. Joker being an elite rebounder is also a big defensive weapon in that regard.

Embiid is definitely a great rim protector, but when you take the whole picture into account Jokic does narrow the gap in terms or overall defensive difference making. It’s not as straight forward as ‘Embiid has all these sexy rejections and Joker doesnt, so theres a huge difference in impact.’

In fact DEN and PHI were very close in opponent points per game in the regular season, separated by a margin of only 1.5.

[tpols]

The only reason Jokic is labeled a poor defender is because he's white.

Embiid isn't even a great athlete. He's just as slow and lumbering as jokic. This isnt Dwight Howard were talking about.

[Hey Yo]

The only reason Jokic is labeled a poor defender is because he's white.

Embiid isn't even a great athlete. He's just as slow and lumbering as jokic. This isnt Dwight Howard were talking about.
:oldlol:

[tpols]

:oldlol:

Embiid is slow bro. Do you watch these games?

He's huge and long... 7'2 with great hand eye coordination... but he's not impressive athletically whatsoever especially in this years playoffs.

[FultzNationRISE]

The only reason Jokic is labeled a poor defender is because he's white.

Embiid isn't even a great athlete. He's just as slow and lumbering as jokic. This isnt Dwight Howard were talking about.


Nobody says Austin Reaves is a bad defender, or Steven Adams or Plumlee.

Jokic objectively does not contest many shots. And last year he got cooked in the GS series on the perimeter (as many bigs would, and Denver has changed their defensive scheme since then).

He can guard other bigs in the post ok but he basically cant do anything else defensively. Embiid lit him up from the midrange in their regular season match. As a pure stopper/rim protector hes NOT good, which is how most people judge defense. Denver has just found subtle ways to mitigate it.

The skin color thing doesnt help, but it’s not primary. He is not a good defender, but he makes up for it with elite efficiency and elite rebounding.

[tpols]

Nobody says Austin Reaves is a bad defender, or Steven Adams or Plumlee.

Jokic objectively does not contest many shots. And last year he got cooked in the GS series on the perimeter (as many bigs would, and Denver has changed their defensive scheme since then).

He can guard other bigs in the post ok but he basically cant do anything else defensively. Embiid lit him up from the midrange in their regular season match. As a pure stopper/rim protector hes NOT good, which is how most people judge defense. Denver has just found subtle ways to mitigate it.

The skin color thing doesnt help, but it’s not primary. He is not a good defender, but he makes up for it with elite efficiency and elite rebounding.

Plumlee and Reaves really aren't great defenders either. Adams is but he has strong pacific islander genes.

Either way, there's no metric that supports jokic being a bad defender. He's in the positive by every metric.

All I'm saying is embiid while he may be longer and contest shots... his athleticism is weak. He's a slow ass dude who has great timing and anticipation. Just like Joker.

[FultzNationRISE]

Plumlee and Reaves really aren't great defenders either. Adams is but he has strong pacific islander genes.

Either way, there's no metric that supports jokic being a bad defender. He's in the positive by every metric.

All I'm saying is embiid while he may be longer and contest shots... his athleticism is weak. He's a slow ass dude who has great timing and anticipation. Just like Joker.

I understand that, and I pointed out Denver and Philly had similar opponent PPG for the season. But the Nuggets have also altered their D to make Jokic less vulnerable.

But by eye test, he does nothing that would make people think he can play defense. He doesnt suffocate his man in coverage, he doesnt swat shots at the basket. And he gets beat a fair amount. He just… bests his guy on the other end more often :lol

But in terms of visible defensive impact, hes more or less a traffic cone. And I have him as the BITW behind LeGOAT right now, I wouldnt say this just to take away from the guy. VISUALLY he is a bad defender. And thats what most people notice.

[tpols]

I understand that, and I pointed out Denver and Philly had similar opponent PPG for the season. But the Nuggets have also altered their D to make Jokic less vulnerable.

But by eye test, he does nothing that would make people think he can play defense. He doesnt suffocate his man in coverage, he doesnt swat shots at the basket. And he gets beat a fair amount. He just… bests his guy on the other end more often :lol

But in terms of visible defensive impact, hes more or less a traffic cone. And I have him as the BITW behind LeGOAT right now, I wouldnt say this just to take away from the guy. VISUALLY he is a bad defender. And thats what most people notice.

As a graduate from LeGOAT University all I can say is I don't agree with you and I hope you have a nice day.

[SouBeachTalents]

As a graduate from LeGOAT University all I can say is I don't agree with you and I hope you have a nice day.
Please, you flunked out of Kobrick Community College.

[FireDavidKahn]

Its closer than the stats make it seem. Embiid playing elite defense and deferring to Harden needs to factor in the whole comparison.

:roll:

But he's an MVP, he shouldn't be deferring!

LeGOAT gets blamed for that all the time.

[ImKobe]

They're definitely playing the same teams with the same defense..

[FultzNationRISE]

Oof.