Hold up. I thought the bubble was a fluke because both Miami and Denver made the CF

[1987_Lakers]

Looks like they both made it back to the CF this year.

:roll:

[ImKobe]

Bubble wasn't a fluke, but it was an asterisk. Denver had to come back down 1 - 3 twice and I'm not sure that happens if you actually had fans and had to win elimination games on the road.

[1987_Lakers]

Bubble wasn't a fluke, but it was an asterisk. Denver had to come back down 1 - 3 twice and I'm not sure that happens if you actually had fans and had to win elimination games on the road.

You called Jimmy Butler a fluke.

[Im Still Ballin]

The Bubble was the most legit ring. It removed homecourt and the crowd from the equation. Each team was also fresh as could be. Players also tend to shoot better in the gym, so the majority of them were at their best.

[ImKobe]

You called Jimmy Butler a fluke.

Up to that point he had never put up the numbers he did on Bran in the Finals in any other series. Dragic was actually their leading scorer through the first 3 series and he got injured in Game 1 of the Finals ofc.

[1987_Lakers]

Up to that point he had never put up the numbers he did on Bran in the Finals in any other series. Dragic was actually their leading scorer through the first 3 series and he got injured in Game 1 of the Finals ofc.

Speaking of leading scorers, Shaq was the leading scorer for the Lakers in every playoff run from 2000-2002.

[bison]

If Celtics win all four bubble conference finalists will be back :oldlol:

[8Ball]

Looks like they both made it back to the CF this year.

:roll:

2020 Lakers went through a bloodbath of competition.

[SouBeachTalents]

The Bubble was the most legit ring. It removed homecourt and the crowd from the equation. Each team was also fresh as could be. Players also tend to shoot better in the gym, so the majority of them were at their best.
Not Kawhi or Giannis

[Real Men Wear Green]

Great to see a stupid theory disproven by a random series of events that have nothing to do with it. Fight stupid with stupid.

[ArbitraryWater]

Not Kawhi or Giannis

wasnt Giannis pretty good? He even had a great game in the one he got injured in, which took his stats down.

[Keno]

The Bubble was the most legit ring. It removed homecourt and the crowd from the equation. Each team was also fresh as could be. Players also tend to shoot better in the gym, so the majority of them were at their best.

this. I don't know why this is a hard concept for people to grasp, clearly they don't play ball. no pressure in anyway, everyone playing evenly and freely.

[ArbitraryWater]

Great to see a stupid theory disproven by a random series of events that have nothing to do with it. Fight stupid with stupid.

yea, those same teams proving their worth in the years after is completely random and unrelated.


You can challenge tontoz for dumbest poster on ISH right now bud.

[Real Men Wear Green]

yea, those same teams proving their worth in the years after is completely random and unrelated.


You can challenge tontoz for dumbest poster on ISH right now bud.

The rosters are exactly the same? None of the players have gotten better or worse? The 4 teams have been in the conference finals most of the time since?

Newsflash: Tontoz is smarter than you.

[And1AllDay]

2020 Lakers went through a bloodbath of competition.

bingo down goes dingo

[tpols]

Miami and Denver are both way better than they were 3 years ago. Jokic has evolved into peak form, he's developed GOAT chemistry with his teammates and HCA is actually a thing. Also no Dwight which is huge. Miami has a healthy Bam who isn't missing games hurt, and they added guys like lowry who is annoying as he'll, but way more impactful than what they had which was an injured dragic.

[ArbitraryWater]

Miami and Denver are both way better than they were 3 years ago. Jokic has evolved into peak form, he's developed GOAT chemistry with his teammates and HCA is actually a thing. Also no Dwight which is huge. Miami has a healthy Bam who isn't missing games hurt, and they added guys like lowry who is annoying as he'll, but way more impactful than what they had which was an injured dragic.

2020 Dragic > 2023 lowry. He didnt play though.

Bam was out only 2 games, 1 of which they won so it made no difference.

But the 2020 Heat had Herro, which this team doesnt have.

Thats why the 2020 Heat are probably better.

[ArbitraryWater]

The rosters are exactly the same? None of the players have gotten better or worse? The 4 teams have been in the conference finals most of the time since?

Newsflash: Tontoz is smarter than you.

their cores are the same, yea.

The same thing that moved the needle for those teams then, is doing it now.

Youd have to be a complete moron to think this is unrelated and doesnt say anything about those squads.

[tpols]

2020 Dragic > 2023 lowry. He didnt play though.

Bam was out only 2 games, 1 of which they won so it made no difference.

But the 2020 Heat had Herro, which this team doesnt have.

Thats why the 2020 Heat are probably better.

Dragic absolutely wasn't better than lowry, especially since he was hurt too. That's crazy talk. And Bam being out 2 games and gimped for the majority of the series is huge. That would be like AD or Lebron missing games. Total series swinger.

Herro played and shot like shit in the 2020 Finals. I'd much rather guys like max strus take his shots. That guy is a baller role player who knows his lane.

[Real Men Wear Green]

their cores are the same, yea.

The same thing that moved the needle for those teams then, is doing it now.

Youd have to be a complete moron to think this is unrelated and doesnt say anything about those squads.

What team was Aaron Gordon on? Where was Kyle Lowry? What happened to 3/5ths of the Lakers starting five? And I am not even going to touch on the long list of differences with the Celtics because I don't want to be the jinx. Just about none of the for teams had the same place in the standings as they did in 2020. Insisting the bubble deserves an asterisk was stupid for an entirely different set of reasons. But someone like you would use an unrelated coincidence as if it proved something.

[ArbitraryWater]

What team was Aaron Gordon on? Where was Kyle Lowry? What happened to 3/5ths of the Lakers starting five? And I am not even going to touch on the long list of differences with the Celtics because I don't want to be the jinx. Just about none of the for teams had the same place in the standings as they did in 2020. Insisting the bubble deserves an asterisk was stupid for an entirely different set of reasons. But someone like you would use an unrelated coincidence as if it proved something.


No one is talking about the lakers.

But the teams best players are the same ones they were in 2020.

Everyone ese, like lowry or gordon, coud be replaced by a variety of payers.

You are fooling yoursef big time if you think this doesnt speak of those teams.

"unrelated coincedence" its literally the same cores :lol

But have fun convincing people how different these teams are cause Aaron Gordon.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dragic absolutely wasn't better than lowry, especially since he was hurt too. That's crazy talk. And Bam being out 2 games and gimped for the majority of the series is huge. That would be like AD or Lebron missing games. Total series swinger.

Herro played and shot like shit in the 2020 Finals. I'd much rather guys like max strus take his shots. That guy is a baller role player who knows his lane.

What are you talking about dude?

Dragic averaged 19 ppg, 21 before/without the game 1 injury. literally more than twice as much as lowry.

Are you on shrooms?

And youre calling my statement crazy talk?

lol

[tpols]

What are you talking about dude?

Dragic averaged 19 ppg, 21 before/without the game 1 injury. literally more than twice as much as lowry.

Are you on shrooms?

And youre calling my statement crazy talk?

lol

Dragic played only 2 out of 6 games in the 2020 Finals and shot 31%FG in those two games he played in.

He played 34 minutes in the entire series.

Arby... what are you on?

If you have a reliable shrooms connect I'd be down though.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dragic played only 2 out of 6 games in the 2020 Finals and shot 31%FG in those two games he played in.

He played 34 minutes in the entire series.

Arby... what are you on?

If you have a reliable shrooms connect I'd be down though.

I literally said "he did not play though", in the finals.

It never was about the finals.

You said Miami is better than in 2020.

In 2020 they had Dragic through the East and he was a much better player than current lowry.

What are you on?

[Real Men Wear Green]

No one is talking about the lakers.

But the teams best players are the same ones they were in 2020.

Everyone ese, like lowry or gordon, coud be replaced by a variety of payers.

You are fooling yoursef big time if you think this doesnt speak of those teams.

"unrelated coincedence" its literally the same cores :lol

But have fun convincing people how different these teams are cause Aaron Gordon.
No one is talking about the Lakers? They aren't one of the for teams... with 3 different starters and oh yeah a new had coach? Aaron Gordon is a starter for Denver averaging 16 points and 6 rebounds. He's their third best player. If you don't think changing coaches and starting players changes a team you don't understand basketball. Which is not surprising.

[ArbitraryWater]

No one is talking about the Lakers? They aren't one of the for teams... with 3 different starters and oh yeah a new had coach? Aaron Gordon is a starter for Denver averaging 16 points and 6 rebounds. He's their third best player. If you don't think changing coaches and starting players changes a team you don't understand basketball. Which is not surprising.

The thread title literally is not talking about the lakers. But yes, they two have their same top 2 guys healthy for the first time since then, which is the biggest change to the last 2 years.

Of course it changes a team, but at their core, these are the same teams. Or are they not?

To you, these teams proving their success years after by making repeated conference finals in the case of Miami, and a conference finals as soon as their Jokic/Gordon/Murray core was healthy, which is the same core that made it in 2020; (NOT AARON GORDON, notice?), doesnt speak on how good those teams were?

Youre living in lala land buddy.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The thread title literally is not talking about the lakers. But yes, they two have their same top 2 guys healthy for the first time since then, which is the biggest change to the last 2 years.So, again..three different starters, a new coach, and a number of different reserves. A better question would be whch Lakers other than James and AD are still on the team?

To you, these teams proving their success years after by making repeated conference finals in the case of Miami, and a conference finals as soon as their Jokic/Gordon/Murray core was healthy, which is the same core that made it in 2020; (NOT AARON GORDON, notice?), doesnt speak on how good those teams were?The bubble was 4 seasons ago. That's enough time for some teams to be completely replaced. Almost no one is the same player he was 4 years ago. Jokic averaged 4.5 less points, 2 less boards, 3 less assists and had 2 fewer MVP awards. The bubble year. No one was saying he was the best player in the league back then and he wasn't. He changed, became better. And hes not the only one.

[tpols]

I literally said "he did not play though", in the finals.

It never was about the finals.

You said Miami is better than in 2020.

In 2020 they had Dragic through the East and he was a much better player than current lowry.

What are you on?

Bro....

Dragic literally logged 34 minutes total out of 6 games in the 2020 Finals. And when he did play he shot on 31%FG.

I like dragics game when he was in his prime coming up behind Steve Nash. He was a Manu lite. He literally didn't play when it mattered for the 2020 Heat. Anybody in his position would be more valuable but lowry is a nice sub. And of course a healthy Bam matters a ton since he is their 2nd best player.

Are you serious?

[ArbitraryWater]

Bro....
Dragic literally didn't play in the Finals for more than 2 games. And when he did pkay he shot on 31%FG.

I like dragics game when he was in his prime coming up behind Steve Nash. He was a Manu lite. He literally didn't play when it mattered for the 2020 Heat. Anybody in his position would be more valuable but lowry is a nice sub. And of course a healthy Bam matters a ton since he is their 2nd best player.

Are you serious?

Why are you talking about the finals only?

Im confused.

You said "Miami is way better than 3 years ago".

3 years ago, they had Dragic doing 21 ppg on 45% in the East. lowry is a 10 ppg on 44% scorer.

How are you tripping this hard?

current lowry is evidently not close to 2020 dragic, and somehow your rebuttal to this is, "look at the 30 minutes dragic played in the finals!".... itd be funny if it wasnt so sad.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

This just proves the bubble chips was legit. You have the same teams and core of players from 2020 battling it out right now, Denver, Miami, Boston(close enough game 7 tomorrow) with LA only having AD and Lebron from that year.

[ArbitraryWater]

This just proves the bubble chips was legit. You have the same teams and core of players from 2020 battling it out right now, Denver, Miami, Boston(close enough game 7 tomorrow) with LA only having AD and Lebron from that year.


dont tell rmwg.

this is like his take that draymond green could argue self defense when kicking sabonis in the chest.

the guy is plain retarded lol

[tpols]

Why are you talking about the finals only?

Im confused.

You said "Miami is way better than 3 years ago".

3 years ago, they had Dragic doing 21 ppg on 45% in the East. lowry is a 10 ppg on 44% scorer.

How are you tripping this hard?

current lowry is evidently not close to 2020 dragic, and somehow your rebuttal to this is, "look at the 30 minutes dragic played in the finals!".... itd be funny if it wasnt so sad.

I'm talking about the Finals because if your 2nd and 3rd best players get hurt, how strong was the team really when it comes to winning the title?

If Lowry and Bam get hurt and nobody else steps up this year they'd be a weak team when it mattered as well.

The fact is.... right now.... Miami and Denver are much stronger than they were 3 years ago.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm talking about the Finals because if your 2nd and 3rd best players get hurt, how strong was the team really when it comes to winning the title?

If Lowry and Bam get hurt and nobody else steps up this year they'd be a weak team when it mattered as well.

The fact is.... right now.... Miami and Denver are much stronger than they were 3 years ago.


so youre comparing the 2023 1st 3 rounds MH to the 2020 Finals MH but definitey not the first 3 rounds? :lol


Your logic at times is unreal

[tpols]

so youre comparing the 2023 1st 3 rounds MH to the 2020 Finals MH but definitey not the first 3 rounds? :lol


Your logic at times is unreal

The 2020 Heat basically went through the same thing as the 2015 Cavs.

Of course we have to take the 2nd and 3rd best player getting hurt into the equation.

At least the cavs role players stepped up. The Heat outside Jimmy butler offered 0 resistance.

The current healthy and reformed Miami Heat are simply way better than a crippled version of their prior selves.

[tpols]

60% of Miamis starting lineup is different compared to 2020. They started max strus, gabe Vincent, and Kevin love in every game last series. None of them played at all in 2020.

[ArbitraryWater]

60% of Miamis starting lineup is different compared to 2020. They started max strus, gabe Vincent, and Kevin love in every game last series. None of them played at all in 2020.


those guys are just anecdotes. they could be repaced by a hundred different payers. Theay fill out the rosters, they dont make the rosters/team. In 2020 it was (Herro), Crowder, Iggy, Nunn, leonard..

[ArbitraryWater]

The 2020 Heat basically went through the same thing as the 2015 Cavs.

Of course we have to take the 2nd and 3rd best player getting hurt into the equation.

At least the cavs role players stepped up. The Heat outside Jimmy butler offered 0 resistance.

The current healthy and reformed Miami Heat are simply way better than a crippled version of their prior selves.

Why? Were not comparing their finals versions, because the Miami Heat arent in the finals yet. And probably wont be.

So that comparison makes no sense.

Once the Heat lose in the ECF, what teams are you comparing?


Youre comparing Dragic with lowry, who was much better than lowry. You shouldnt be struggling with this at all.

[Real Men Wear Green]

dont tell rmwg.

this is like his take that draymond green could argue self defense when kicking sabonis in the chest.

the guy is plain retarded lol

You can't argue the point... agree with someone else. You're such a chickenshit.

[ArbitraryWater]

You can't argue the point... agree with someone else. You're such a chickenshit.

Its because you refuse to use your brain and point out minor changes instead. As a whole, these are the same teams.

Tell me what the Nuggets did last year with Gordon? Was there something different to this year or 2020?

And you painfully get basic facts wrong.


So, again..three different starters, a new coach, and a number of different reserves. A better question would be whch Lakers other than James and AD are still on the team?
The bubble was 4 seasons ago. That's enough time for some teams to be completely replaced. Almost no one is the same player he was 4 years ago. Jokic averaged 4.5 less points, 2 less boards, 3 less assists and had 2 fewer MVP awards. The bubble year. No one was saying he was the best player in the league back then and he wasn't. He changed, became better. And hes not the only one.


the bubble was 3 seasons ago, not 4.

But again, any reasonable person would conclude that the core of those rosters have proven their worth over.

And youre dumbass would be like: Um no, while the top 3 might be the same, they have Gordon now and Jokic averages 3 more points *nerd face


Jokic is better, Murray is worse... its all a wash. The players, strengths, style, roles... its all exactly the same...

for the Nuggets, the Heat, and mostly the lakers.... only the lakers have changed their identity somewhat, given lebrons reduced ballhandling.

That would be your only actual argument. Instead you nitpick insignificant big picture changings to act like the teams are nothing alike. Its sad.

[kawhileonard2]

2020 Lakers went through a bloodbath of competition.

Didn't play a #1 nor #2 seed in either conference. Avoided Kawhi, Giannis, KD, Steph.

Switch Rondo on the team with Westbrook.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Its because you refuse to use your brain and point out minor changes instead. As a whole, these are the same teams. how many different Lakers on the team now 10? 12? And a new head coach... and this is minor change? Jokic now being a 2 time mvp is no big difference? In fact three of the teams have at least two different starters to say nothing of reserves.


Tell me what the Nuggets did last year with Gordon? Was there something different to this year or 2020? You are so stupid that you don't see how them getting different results last year is further proof that they are a different team.


And you painfully get basic facts wrong.




the bubble was 3 seasons ago, not 4.Upon further review, congratulations... this much is correct. Unfortunately for you the basic point stands. Teams and players can undergo a lot of change in 3 years.


But again, any reasonable person would conclude that the core of those rosters have proven their worth over.Sure the three teams that have made the Conference finals have proven that they're good. That proves nothing about the teams that they were there years ago.



And youre dumbass would be like: Um no, while the top 3 might be the same, they have Gordon now and Jokic averages 3 more points *nerd face


Jokic is better, Murray is worse... its all a wash. The players, strengths, style, roles... its all exactly the same...If Murray is worse (debatable and not what the regular season stats say) that's just one more way the teams are different. You're bad at this.


for the Nuggets, the Heat, and mostly the lakers.... only the lakers have changed their identity somewhat, given lebrons reduced ballhandling.Apparently someone needs to inform you that a team is more than just its star players. And even the star players are different. If the Celtics make it they added the sixth man of the year and Tatum had become an all nba first team player, Brown had leveled up to being an AllNBA player, Smart is now the starting pg full-time and Robert Williams has emerged as at least a part time starter and defensive force. The team is very different.


That would be your only actual argument. Instead you nitpick insignificant big picture changings to act like the teams are nothing alike. Its sad. It's one of a many areas where you continue to be corrected. Sorry to be making you sad but in my defense you seem like a sad guy

[ArbitraryWater]

how many different Lakers on the team now 10? 12? And a new head coach... and this is minor change? Jokic now being a 2 time mvp is no big difference? In fact three of the teams have at least two different starters to say nothing of reserves.

You are so stupid that you don't see how them getting different results last year is further proof that they are a different team.

Really? Wasnt it you that mentioned Gordon as the change? So what happened last year with Gordon? Whats the difference to this year?

lets do this step by step. Get this into that thick skull of yours^^

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah you clearly have no reply. Moving on.

[ImKobe]

This just proves the bubble chips was legit. You have the same teams and core of players from 2020 battling it out right now, Denver, Miami, Boston(close enough game 7 tomorrow) with LA only having AD and Lebron from that year.

All 4 teams are vastly different. Heat don't have Dragic (Dragic was their leading scorer through 3 rounds before injury) & Herro (he's out until the Finals), basically the whole team is different apart from Bam, Robinson & Jimmy. Nuggets didn't have Gordon, KCP, Bruce Brown + Jokic & MPJ were both worse players. Lakers like you said are entirely different apart from Bran & AD, and they don't play the same way they did in 2020. Even the Celtics are much different from 2020 and have a new HC as well.

Bubble chip is "legit", but there's an asterisk tied to it because of the extreme circumstances. Considering that the players got 5 months rest & didn't have to travel at all and didn't have to play in front of crowds, you can't put it on the same level.

[Axe]

bingo down goes dingo
:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Yeah you clearly have no reply. Moving on.

:oldlol: dodging your stupid logic like a pro, nice.

you have found yourself agreeing with spursm8, does that tell you something?


It's 3 years later and the players are different...you stupid virgin insecure fvckhead

Post more pics of your sick pad, coke addicted daddy's boy

[1987_Lakers]

2020 was a confirmed bloodbath