20 NBA Seasons, 17 Super Teams, and only 4 Rings to show for it

[BallsOut]

LeBron James played on 17 superteams out of 20 seasons in his NBA career and only come out with 4 rings. Talk about a pretty underwhelming result.

:biggums:

[red1]

6-24

[Proctor]

One day, 300 posts, two alts, and OP still has nothing to show for it.

:biggums:

[red1]

One day, 300 posts, two alts, and OP still has nothing to show for it.

:biggums:

he's a "lakers fan" that's been celebrating his team losing 3 games in the WCF



kid is mentally retarded.

[BallsOut]

Basketball Gods wouldn’t allow a insecure superteam former another ring. I love it. Like ya boy said karma is a bitch.

:lebronamazed:

[BallsOut]

One day, 300 posts, two alts, and OP still has nothing to show for it.

:biggums:

11 years, 10869 posts, 1 random ass appearance and nothing to show for it.

:biggums:

[1987_Lakers]

One day, 300 posts, two alts, and OP still has nothing to show for it.

:biggums:

:roll:

[Spurs m8]

Hes been nothing short of underwhelming

Needs maximum help for mediocre accolades - by top 5 standard...

Not that he's top 5

[BallsOut]

Hes been nothing short of underwhelming

Needs maximum help for mediocre accolades - by top 5 standard...

Not that he's top 5

I have LeBron at #13.

[sdot_thadon]

One day, 300 posts, two alts, and OP still has nothing to show for it.

:biggums:

When the dagger comes in the 1st quarter. :oldlol:

[BallsOut]

When the dagger comes in the 1st quarter. :oldlol:

Typical LeBron Stan. Only shows up in the first 3 quarters and chokes it in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.

Get back in my pocket bitch.


:roll:

[Spurs m8]

I have LeBron at #13.

Yes that is about right.

Hes manufactured his way high up low iq fans lists, but real people see him for what he is

[BallsOut]

Yes that is about right.

Hes manufactured his way high up low iq fans lists, but real people see him for what he is

Real recognize real

:applause:

[sdot_thadon]

Typical LeBron Stan. Only shows up in the first 3 quarters and chokes it in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.

Get back in my pocket bitch.


:roll:

Nah I'd say we come through in the clutch more than anyone ever has. We were down 3-1 and pasted the greatest regular season team ever we dropped 37 in game 7 of the NBA finals in 2013, we iced the Celtics in Boston in 2012, we also got more game winners in the postseason than anyone you love while we're making parallels. Aint a pocket big enough for us.

[TheMan]

Nah I'd say we come through in the clutch more than anyone ever has. We were down 3-1 and pasted the greatest regular season team ever we dropped 37 in game 7 of the NBA finals in 2013, we iced the Celtics in Boston in 2012, we also got more game winners in the postseason than anyone you love while we're making parallels. Aint a pocket big enough for us.

We? I only saw LeBron doing that :confusedshrug: I ain't seen any of you Bran nerds alongside him making layups, FOH

[BallsOut]

Nah I'd say we come through in the clutch more than anyone ever has. We were down 3-1 and pasted the greatest regular season team ever we dropped 37 in game 7 of the NBA finals in 2013, we iced the Celtics in Boston in 2012, we also got more game winners in the postseason than anyone you love while we're making parallels. Aint a pocket big enough for us.

What about those 0-4 pockets like this one? No player has been on more Superteams that have gotten swepted than Lebron.

:lebronamazed:

[sdot_thadon]

What about those 0-4 pockets like this one? No player has been on more Superteams that have gotten swepted than Lebron.

:lebronamazed:

Nobody's ever scored more points than he has either. Or won more postseason games, or series for that matter.

[BallsOut]

Hes been nothing short of underwhelming

Needs maximum help for mediocre accolades - by top 5 standard...

Not that he's top 5

Lebron had played on the most superteams in the NBA with very little to show for it. It’s very embarrassing actually.

[Airupthere]

Lebron had played on the most superteams in the NBA with very little to show for it. It’s very embarrassing actually.

He himself alluded to the ceiling that he should have achieved. Not 7, not 8... That was how dominant the superteams he built were. By his own estimation, he should have done more.

[BallsOut]

He himself alluded to the ceiling that he should have achieved. Not 7, not 8... That was how dominant the superteams he built were. By his own estimation, he should have done more.

Shoulda coulda woulda

[r15mohd]

I have LeBron at #13.

you cant name 5 players, let alone 12, that should be ahead of him and it not be contradicting or hypocrisy.

[BallsOut]

you cant name 5 players, let alone 12, that should be ahead of him and it not be contradicting or hypocrisy.

I can.

[GimmeThat]

if a soldiers gets shot and killed in combat, was he really a soldier? I'm asking this for my pig farmers

[BallsOut]

Nobody's ever scored more points than he has either. Or won more postseason games, or series for that matter.

Or had as many turnovers

:lebronamazed:

[Shaquille O'Neal]

This is what happens when you don't actually have SKILLS to fall back on. Other than athletic size, speed and strength, Lebron has devolved in his NBA career. He never developed footwork or a solid jumpshot. In 20+ years. So when his steroids wear off and father time catches up, this is what to expect. The refs tried to drag him to the finish line but just couldn't. Imagine if he'd have spent more time in the gym working on footwork or his jumper. He didn't, and this is the net result. Borderline top 15 now, and trending downward.

[BarberSchool]

I have LeBron at #13.

Your Top 12 ?

I despise LeBron as a human being. Not a huge fan of his mostly unaesthetic game either. And still he is easily in my top ten.

Probably in my top 5, not necessarily for peak greatness, but for longevity, durability (despite PED aided), and consistency of competitiveness over 2 decades, that earned him his numbers.


I can.please do !
I bet it’s a very solid top 12

[sdot_thadon]

Or had as many turnovers

:lebronamazed:

Yeah because turnovers definitely hold more weight than any of that other stuff right? Seems like the asylum got wifi now.

[Dbrog]

you cant name 5 players, let alone 12, that should be ahead of him and it not be contradicting or hypocrisy.

Pretending that arguments don't exist for him outside the top5 is ignorant or just trolling. Longevity is really one of the only criteria that would make him top5

[r15mohd]

I can.

waiting...

[r15mohd]

Pretending that arguments don't exist for him outside the top5 is ignorant or just trolling. Longevity is really one of the only criteria that would make him top5

interesting, thought it applies to a few in the GOAT list and not just Lebron. like I said, contradicts or hypocrisy to not have him top5 at the very least

20 seasons: KAJ Kobe Lebron
19 seasons: TD Shaq

[Dbrog]

interesting, thought it applies to a few in the GOAT list and not just Lebron. like I said, contradicts or hypocrisy to not have him top5 at the very least

20 seasons: KAJ Kobe Lebron
19 seasons: TD Shaq

Yup that 5 is pretty good if your main criteria is longevity. Just saying that's not everyone's criteria.

[r15mohd]

Yup that 5 is pretty good if your main criteria is longevity. Just saying that's not everyone's criteria.

you can pick any criteria and HAVE to place Lebron in it ... leaving him out would, again, be contradicting or hypocritical to who is in place of him

[Dbrog]

you can pick any criteria and HAVE to place Lebron in it ... leaving him out would, again, be contradicting or hypocritical to who is in place of him

You're an idiot. You realize a person can have most skilled scorers as a criteria right? Or championships? Or culturally changing the game for the better? Or a vast variety of other things. He would absolutely not top 5 of any of those

[RRR3]

You're an idiot. You realize a person can have most skilled scorers as a criteria right? Or championships? Or culturally changing the game for the better? Or a vast variety of other things. He would absolutely not top 5 of any of those
If your top 5 GOAT list was based off the most skilled scorers ever (whatever that even means, because people just think skills are handles and shooting), it would be something like Kyrie, CP3, Curry, Harden and Durant. Which I think everyone who's not braindead recognizes is an absolutely insane top 5 GOAT list.

If you're going by most championships, your top 5 would be Bill Russell and 4 of his teammates, which is an even more insane list.


Culturally changing the game for the better is impossible to measure objectively, and even if it weren't guys like Earl Lloyd and Nat Clifton would clearly be top 5 which would also make the list insane.


So I guess if your criteria is asinine, you have a point but I am assuming r15mohd expected you to come up with criteria that wasn't deranged.

[r15mohd]

If your top 5 GOAT list was based off the most skilled scorers ever (whatever that even means, because people just think skills are handles and shooting), it would be something like Kyrie, CP3, Curry, Harden and Durant. Which I think everyone who's not braindead recognizes is an absolutely insane top 5 GOAT list.

If you're going by most championships, your top 5 would be Bill Russell and 4 of his teammates, which is an even more insane list.


Culturally changing the game for the better is impossible to measure objectively, and even if it weren't guys like Earl Lloyd and Nat Clifton would clearly be top 5 which would also make the list insane.


So I guess if your criteria is asinine, you have a point but I am assuming r15mohd expected you to come up with criteria that wasn't deranged.

:cheers:

sad the circles some run in to justify their narratives lol

[Manny98]

Only 4 rings? Do you realize how stupid some of you sound when you say he only has 4 rings

Most HOF are lucky to get one

LeBron has won more as the 1st option than anyone ever outside of Michael Jordan

[Full Court]

What about those 0-4 pockets like this one? No player has been on more Superteams that have gotten swepted than Lebron.

:lebronamazed:

No one's ever led a super team to the lottery either.

[Dbrog]

:cheers:

sad the circles some run in to justify their narratives lol

The irony of this made me chuckle :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

You're an idiot. You realize a person can have most skilled scorers as a criteria right? Or championships? Or culturally changing the game for the better? Or a vast variety of other things. He would absolutely not top 5 of any of those

And in the same breath you shoot yourself in the foot. Scoring? Lebron is the all time leading scorer for the reg. season and playoffs. Of people in the consensus top 10 he's 3rd in ppg. That's not top 5? Championships? 6 guys in the top 10 have more titles on paper. Of those 6 probably 2 have led their teams to more chips as best player. Of those 6 only one has more finals mvps. Not top 5? Cultural impact? Of the top 10 or so maybe only 2 guys could be said to have had more impact. Just sounds like you didn't think this statement through much at all.

[Dbrog]

And in the same breath you shoot yourself in the foot. Scoring? Lebron is the all time leading scorer for the reg. season and playoffs. Of people in the consensus top 10 he's 3rd in ppg. That's not top 5? Championships? 6 guys in the top 10 have more titles on paper. Of those 6 probably 2 have led their teams to more chips as best player. Of those 6 only one has more finals mvps. Not top 5? Cultural impact? Of the top 10 or so maybe only 2 guys could be said to have had more impact. Just sounds like you didn't think this statement through much at all.

It seems you are projecting about not thinking through. You just listed a longevity stat for Lebron rather than "skilled scoring" criteria which someone could place more weight onto...not saying that's my criteria btw.

Skilled scoring weighted higher for GOATs could look something like Curry, Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, and Kareem or maybe Bird in no particular order.

Leading your team to championships you say only 2 have led their team to more but let me guess...you are one of the guys who put Iggy or Parker as the "best player" on those teams even though the rest of us actually saw those series and know they are BS. That top 5 would look something like Duncan, Russell, Jordan, Kareem, and Kobe/Magic by someone who knows at least a small amount of context about basketball...again probably not talking about you

Cultural being weighted...definitely gotta be Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, and maybe Dr. J though he could be pretty arguable

Point being that you neanderthals on here can't see past your own nose enough to see that other people have different perceptions than you that are just as valid as your dumb ass

[Iverson3]

malone and stockton played for 20 years

O rings

O finals mvp

[RRR3]

It seems you are projecting about not thinking through. You just listed a longevity stat for Lebron rather than "skilled scoring" criteria which someone could place more weight onto...not saying that's my criteria btw.

Skilled scoring weighted higher for GOATs could look something like Curry, Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, and Kareem or maybe Bird in no particular order.

Leading your team to championships you say only 2 have led their team to more but let me guess...you are one of the guys who put Iggy or Parker as the "best player" on those teams even though the rest of us actually saw those series and know they are BS. That top 5 would look something like Duncan, Russell, Jordan, Kareem, and Kobe/Magic by someone who knows at least a small amount of context about basketball...again probably not talking about you

Cultural being weighted...definitely gotta be Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, and maybe Dr. J though he could be pretty arguable

Point being that you neanderthals on here can't see past your own nose enough to see that other people have different perceptions than you that are just as valid as your dumb ass
Kobe, Kareem and Jordan are not as skilled as Kyrie or Chris Paul. Not even close. You just picked the most “skilled” from among the top 10, you didn’t pick the most skilled period.

Claiming Kobe, Magic and Kareem led their teams to more rings than LeBron did is deranged. Kobe won a ring averaging 15.6 PPG on 41% TS were giving him credit for “leading” the Lakers in 2000? :roll:

Kareem was better than Magic for 1-2 of their rings and Magic was better than Kareem for the rest. Thus neither have more rings as the best player than LeBron. Try harder.

[r15mohd]

It seems you are projecting about not thinking through. You just listed a longevity stat for Lebron rather than "skilled scoring" criteria which someone could place more weight onto...not saying that's my criteria btw.

Skilled scoring weighted higher for GOATs could look something like Curry, Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, and Kareem or maybe Bird in no particular order.

Leading your team to championships you say only 2 have led their team to more but let me guess...you are one of the guys who put Iggy or Parker as the "best player" on those teams even though the rest of us actually saw those series and know they are BS. That top 5 would look something like Duncan, Russell, Jordan, Kareem, and Kobe/Magic by someone who knows at least a small amount of context about basketball...again probably not talking about you

Cultural being weighted...definitely gotta be Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, and maybe Dr. J though he could be pretty arguable

Point being that you neanderthals on here can't see past your own nose enough to see that other people have different perceptions than you that are just as valid as your dumb ass

you can have whatever perception you want for GOAT, however the top 5 will include Lebron no matter what way you try to divvy it up - and only contradicting or hypocrisy notions will push him out of that group.

example you gave for Iggy/Parker is exactly why Curry or Kobe arent in the convo for GOATs as they were lead by KD and Shaq respectively. it's contradicting to your own point.

[Iverson3]

Kobe, Kareem and Jordan are not as skilled as Kyrie or Chris Paul. Not even close. You just picked the most “skilled” from among the top 10, you didn’t pick the most skilled period.

Claiming Kobe, Magic and Kareem led their teams to more rings than LeBron did is deranged. Kobe won a ring averaging 15.6 PPG on 41% TS were giving him credit for “leading” the Lakers in 2000? :roll:

Kareem was better than Magic for 1-2 of their rings and Magic was better than Kareem for the rest. Thus neither have more rings as the best player than LeBron. Try harder.

Drog is an idiot. Just Ignore him. Kobe is not even a top 10 player of all time.

[Dbrog]

Kobe, Kareem and Jordan are not as skilled as Kyrie or Chris Paul. Not even close. You just picked the most “skilled” from among the top 10, you didn’t pick the most skilled period.

Claiming Kobe, Magic and Kareem led their teams to more rings than LeBron did is deranged. Kobe won a ring averaging 15.6 PPG on 41% TS were giving him credit for “leading” the Lakers in 2000? :roll:

Kareem was better than Magic for 1-2 of their rings and Magic was better than Kareem for the rest. Thus neither have more rings as the best player than LeBron. Try harder.

Said "weighted" which is not the same as "only"...then again you are the most illiterate person on the site so this isn't surprising.

[Dbrog]

you can have whatever perception you want for GOAT, however the top 5 will include Lebron no matter what way you try to divvy it up - and only contradicting or hypocrisy notions will push him out of that group.

example you gave for Iggy/Parker is exactly why Curry or Kobe arent in the convo for GOATs as they were lead by KD and Shaq respectively. it's contradicting to your own point.

White cows don't get jealous of spotted ones

[Iverson3]

White cows don't get jealous of spotted ones

You are a dog $hit of a poster bro.

[Dbrog]

Drog is an idiot. Just Ignore him. Kobe is not even a top 10 player of all time.

Sprewell likes choking other men. You love him right?

[RRR3]

You're an idiot. You realize a person can have most skilled scorers as a criteria right?Or championships? Or culturally changing the game for the better? Or a vast variety of other things. He would absolutely not top 5 of any of those
No mention of weighted. Dude forgot his own criteria. Shockingly slow

[Dbrog]

No mention of weighted. Dude forgot his own criteria. Shockingly slow


Skilled scoring weighted higher for GOATs could look something like Curry, Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, and Kareem or maybe Bird in no particular order.

Cultural being weighted...definitely gotta be Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, and maybe Dr. J though he could be pretty arguable


:roll::lol:facepalm nice

[BallsOut]

you can have whatever perception you want for GOAT, however the top 5 will include Lebron no matter what way you try to divvy it up - and only contradicting or hypocrisy notions will push him out of that group.

example you gave for Iggy/Parker is exactly why Curry or Kobe arent in the convo for GOATs as they were lead by KD and Shaq respectively. it's contradicting to your own point.

Finals winning percentage begs to differ. That leaves LeBron out of the top 10

[Dbrog]

Finals winning percentage begs to differ. That leaves LeBron out of the top 10

inb4 "people who use that criteria are deranged" :lol

and then repeats "see there are NO POSSIBLE ARGUMENTS that don't contradict themselves"

[Iverson3]

Sprewell likes choking other men. You love him right?

Prime Sprewell and Shaq could also win 3 nba titles

[Dbrog]

Prime Sprewell and Shaq could also win 3 nba titles

Choke me daddy :pimp:

[sdot_thadon]

It seems you are projecting about not thinking through. You just listed a longevity stat for Lebron rather than "skilled scoring" criteria which someone could place more weight onto...not saying that's my criteria btw.

Skilled scoring weighted higher for GOATs could look something like Curry, Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, and Kareem or maybe Bird in no particular order.
No surprise you highlight the 1st part of it and ignore the next sentence. Typical. I'll repeat it for clarity: Of the general consensus top 10 or so players Lebron's career Ppg is 3rd....after 20 seasons. You can talk about anesthetics and such all you want but results are results. Most guys once they pass 13 years start a decline in their career per game numbers, not this guy. Just takes a small bit of brain juice to realize the tweaks and changes he's had to make over time to do so.



Leading your team to championships you say only 2 have led their team to more but let me guess...you are one of the guys who put Iggy or Parker as the "best player" on those teams even though the rest of us actually saw those series and know they are BS. That top 5 would look something like Duncan, Russell, Jordan, Kareem, and Kobe/Magic by someone who knows at least a small amount of context about basketball...again probably not talking about you key word only 2 LED their teams to MORE titles as the best player. Timmy wasn't that guy in his last chip, Kareem and Magic split theirs, they can't both have been the best for more than 4 of their mutual 5 titles so you need to make a choice there. Kobe absolutely did not lead his team to more than 4 for a well documented dominant reason. That leaves you with a sure 2, Mj and Russell. Back to square one.



Cultural being weighted...definitely gotta be Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, and maybe Dr. J though he could be pretty arguable

Point being that you neanderthals on here can't see past your own nose enough to see that other people have different perceptions than you that are just as valid as your dumb ass

I get that you hate him, but Lebron is the Internet era superstar, much has changed about how we consume the game and see stars during his tenure. The accessibility, the power of his voice and use of his platform. Not to mention his media empire and innovation he's pushed on that front. He's done just as much as anyone.

[RRR3]

:roll::lol:facepalm nice
It was the original argument you brought up. Idc about you moving the goalposts once I proved you wrong.

[RRR3]

inb4 "people who use that criteria are deranged" :lol

and then repeats "see there are NO POSSIBLE ARGUMENTS that don't contradict themselves"
Finals winning percentage being the metric means everyone who’s lost any finals isn’t top 10. Not very smart are you. Pippen and Horace Grant top 10 :bowdown:

[Iverson3]

Finals winning percentage being the metric means everyone who’s lost any finals isn’t top 10. Not very smart are you. Pippen and Horace Grant top 10 :bowdown:

I think he is just messing with us. I don't think he is dumb enough to use that Jordantarded logic

[Dbrog]

It was the original argument you brought up. Idc about you moving the goalposts once I proved you wrong.

Good post. IQ=10k. If you were an ice cream cone what flavor would you be? Rocky road perhaps? Mudslide?

[BallsOut]

Good post. IQ=10k. If you were an ice cream cone what flavor would you be? Rocky road perhaps? Mudslide?

He'd be a fruit tart

[BallsOut]

Choke me daddy :pimp:

:biggums:

[r15mohd]

the best part of these type of threads is that neither BallsOut or Dbrog can post their GOAT list under their believed truthing criteria...they toss out hopes and dreams

[BallsOut]

the best part of these type of threads is that neither BallsOut or Dbrog can post their GOAT list under their believed truthing criteria...they toss out hopes and dreams

Only thing getting tossed recently was LeBron dawg. I see you haven’t recovered yet from that. Take your time it’s going to be a long offseason.

[r15mohd]

Only thing getting tossed recently was LeBron dawg. I see you haven’t recovered yet from that. Take your time it’s going to be a long offseason.

you're the one posting topics on Lebron. you're the one putting forth claims and cant provide any specifics to them. btw, we're still waiting on the 12 players ahead of Lebron. lots of projection here

and my team is in the Finals, nothing for me to recover from lol

[BallsOut]

you're the one posting topics on Lebron. you're the one putting forth claims and cant provide any specifics to them. btw, we're still waiting on the 12 players ahead of Lebron. lots of projection here

and my team is in the Finals, nothing for me to recover from lol

Why do you need specifics? Ain’t hard to find 12 people who have had finals mvps with a better finals record than LeBron

[1987_Lakers]

you're the one posting topics on Lebron. you're the one putting forth claims and cant provide any specifics to them. btw, we're still waiting on the 12 players ahead of Lebron. lots of projection here

and my team is in the Finals, nothing for me to recover from lol

:oldlol:

[Soundwave]

4 is not terrible, but you'd like to see more than that especially given the longevity debate which effectively says you should have more kicks at the can than other players.

Russell - 11
Jordan - 6
Kareem - 6
Magic - 5
Kobe - 5
Duncan - 5
Lebron - 4
Shaq - 4
Steph - 4
Bird - 3
Wilt - 2

Of kind of the consensus top 10-12 players ... you'd like to see probably 5 or 6 minimum if you want to be in the absolute GOAT debate.

[sdot_thadon]

4 is not terrible, but you'd like to see more than that especially given the longevity debate which effectively says you should have more kicks at the can than other players.

Russell - 11
Jordan - 6
Kareem - 6
Magic - 5
Kobe - 5
Duncan - 5
Lebron - 4
Shaq - 4
Steph - 4
Bird - 3
Wilt - 2

Of kind of the consensus top 10-12 players ... you'd like to see probably 5 or 6 minimum if you want to be in the absolute GOAT debate.

It's pretty ham fisted to just list the counts as if all of those guys played as prominent a role for all those rings as Lebron did for his just for the sake of sliding him down your list. 4 is plenty, especially considering the caliber of opponents he's had to see in the last round.

[red1]

and he's still the GOAT



isnt that crazy?


https://cdn-wp.thesportsrush.com/2021/10/faeeadb8-untitled-design-22.jpg

[BallsOut]

4 is not terrible, but you'd like to see more than that especially given the longevity debate which effectively says you should have more kicks at the can than other players.

Russell - 11
Jordan - 6
Kareem - 6
Magic - 5
Kobe - 5
Duncan - 5
Lebron - 4
Shaq - 4
Steph - 4
Bird - 3
Wilt - 2

Of kind of the consensus top 10-12 players ... you'd like to see probably 5 or 6 minimum if you want to be in the absolute GOAT debate.

So LeBron is 7-9 on that list. Still too high imo. Shaq and Steph were more dominant winners

[BallsOut]

4 is not terrible, but you'd like to see more than that especially given the longevity debate which effectively says you should have more kicks at the can than other players.

Russell - 11
Jordan - 6
Kareem - 6
Magic - 5
Kobe - 5
Duncan - 5
Lebron - 4
Shaq - 4
Steph - 4
Bird - 3
Wilt - 2

Of kind of the consensus top 10-12 players ... you'd like to see probably 5 or 6 minimum if you want to be in the absolute GOAT debate.

Considering LeBron played on 17 superteams, 4 is very underachieving. You gotta get at least 10 with the odds ever so stacked in your favor. Pretty weak stuff

[BallsOut]

malone and stockton played for 20 years

O rings

O finals mvp

What are O rings? Speak English dawg

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron James played on 17 superteams out of 20 seasons in his NBA career and only come out with 4 rings. Talk about a pretty underwhelming result.

:biggums:

Not 17 superteams but more than anyone else that is for sure especially after stacking the deck and hoping from one team to the next.